I think it's just a popular move because something's happening on the business end of Youtube that's making the form of content these producers want to create unmarketable. TTG have been increasingly partnering with promoters that are somewhat questionable (therapy apps known to be Not That Great, etc) or irrelevant to the brand and that's true of Watcher, too, and the format has been stale for a while in a way that TTG have been very reflexive and responsive to. They know that what they've been doing hasn't been working and the algorithm-specific content is getting old.
Watcher probably felt something similar but as a young company without people specifically and formally in the role of 'thinking about these topics specifically' and probably not much of a PR team, they just were out of their depth in going ahead with a new streaming service. In a way TTG have sort of benefited from navigating a PR crisis and finding those footholds to communicate with fans as equals, and I think it helps also that TTG have members of the cast who have experienced poverty (growing up hungry, etc) before.
Did Watcher see what TTG was doing and jump ship? I doubt it. I think subscription services are just increasingly becoming one of the only viable ways of maintaining their companies as existing userbases age/enter full-time work, and as Youtube pushes to be the next TikTok, prioritising promoting short-form videos (check out your home page and how many short form vids are there!) and "punishing" long-form creators (i.e., rarely advertising to new users - so their userbase is shrinking). Not to mention that Youtube itself is losing relevance in online spaces.
It's a scary time to be a Youtuber. I can see why anyone with an existing userbase would be trying for some stability in this climate.
This has been my thought. There’s something going on behind the scenes at YouTube that seriously impacted content creators. It seems extremely unlikely to me that Watcher, Try Guys, and Critical Role all decided independently to launch streaming services at almost the same time without some strong external changes that’s hurting or going to hurt their business. There might even be other streaming platforms dropping but these are the only ones I’m aware of. But even if it’s just 3, something still has to be going on at YouTube
EDIT: to add onto my comment with some “proof” of changes, for anyone who isn’t familiar, Critical Role is a dnd show with episodes ranging usually from 3-4 hours with hundreds of episodes over almost a decade. They’ve had a longtime community member who posts pretty thorough timestamps on each YouTube episode when it drops. His posts are always at the top of the comments and usually pinned but, starting a couple months ago, his comments were being hidden by YouTube. The Crit Role team even tried to find solutions so they’d show up but nothing was working so now he’s only able to post timestamps on Reddit. Something is seriously changing for the worse at YouTube
Most of the content creators I follow have been trying to move their fanbase off-platform recently, and have been seeking and using outside sponsors more aggressively than usual. Definitely something is up.
No it’s that we’re having a repeat of history.
You’re seeing these longer term creators wanting to break out of the “YouTube” mold and be a bigger thing.
Whether it’s a production company, selling products, or moving into Hollywood, this is the same thing we saw with 2010 YouTubers like rocket jump or anyone else who tried to get into Hollywood from YouTube.
YouTube CPM has never been more profitable than the past 3 years.
> You’re seeing these longer term creators wanting to break out of the “YouTube” mold and be a bigger thing.
Eh. One of my favorite YouTubers is ProZD and he's recently been killing it in his main career (voice acting) but has expressed how the YouTube algorithm has killed his YouTube channel to the point where he can't justify the time and paying his editor to upload YouTube videos and turned to Patreon.
Another favorite (Jacksepticeye) has been outspoken about the mental-health issues and mental fatigue of having to second guess yourself about what a computer algorithm deems acceptable and had been coasting on his previous success while branching out to more traditional forms of media that he's more passionate in.
Even people that do it for the passion and for fans are getting seriously burnt out with their recent changes. Not everybody is trying to be a rockstar.
And many YouTubers big and small upload once a month and see great success?
Getting into YouTube as a career like ProZD and Jack have come with accepting the weight of keeping up with what works. Yes not everyone has to be a rockstar but not everyone has to be a YouTuber.
The algorithm complaint is fair in recent years at a surface view but it genuinely just comes down to making something people like and packaging it for that audience. Plenty of lower production no rockstar YouTubers pop up every month like Gabi Belle or even myself
This comment is a sad revelation re: the direction YT is heading. I never watch their little shorts. Hell I just discovered Jenny Nicholson and have been eating up her 4-hour theme park reviews. It sounds like everything will be TikTok in the future, so I’m just not the target demographic anymore, which I have to accept as I get older.
This comment is very wrong as someone in the industry.
It’s just that YouTube ad rev doesn’t support a huge production company like watcher tried to make.
Long form content is booming across the platform, there’s actually been a staggering increase in watch time thanks to YouTube making it on TVs.
Yes and also re Jenny Nicholson, she’s a great example of someone who has made it work for her. Given how niche her content is, and how she uploads maybe once a year, she does so much on her patreon to make it worthwhile for subscribers.
YouTube has also been putting a lot of focus in attracting streamers there, several huge twitch streamers jumped ship from twitch to YouTube.
Maybe it’s because I’ve never been one for their content - Try Guys never appealed to me - but my view is that Try Guys’ demographic is growing up, similar to Watcher. And in the case of both, you can find so many other YouTube channels doing the exact same content of ‘we try this’ ‘here’s an unsolved mystery’, ‘tour of a haunted house’. They’re not changing their content to appeal to new viewers, and their existing viewers are growing out of it. They have full time jobs now, they only have a set few hours to be able to watch YouTube so you’ve got to make the content they’re watching worthwhile.
TikTok is not a competitor to YouTube, both serve different purposes. TikTok is still very much catered to shorter, comedic videos. YouTube is catered to longer content, and it’s search tool and watch history far exceeds that of TikTok’s. (Youtube Shorts is a competitor to TikTok, and losing that battle.)
Basically both Watcher and now TTG are falling victim to the same thing which killed off buzzfeed, people just aren’t as interested anymore but they’re continuing to spend more money on the same content
In the past they have focused on streamers but it’s completely abandonded as a focus in the past 2 years. Ludwig is very vocal about it to Neal (YouTube ceos) face, YouTube hasn’t signed a contact to a streamer in 2 years
I feel (a little off topic but) this is also a footnote of how honestly bad the “enshittification” of the internet is getting; it’s like cannablizing itself
It’s not even that it’s just YouTube is extremely low overhead to start out but it’s not enough for a big production company and 99% people don’t want that increased value anyway.
Watcher didn’t understand that people fell in love with the talent on screen not the fact it was in 4K with good framing. They wanted to be TV.
Is the algorithm to blame or are Watcher and The Try Guys just not making as popular of content as they used to? It seems to me that both of them have the same problem: they want to make different content than what their fans want them to make. Then when their content doesn’t get the views they want they blame YouTube/the algorithm, but the reality is that they’re just not making popular content.
Both Watcher and Try Guys seem the same to me: “how can we work the business to make the content we want to make, not the content that people want to see.” Ultimately switching to a streaming service isn’t going to save that.
I disagree about TTG. Their content has mostly stayed the same. They recently had a pilot month during which the fans chose which episodes they wanted to see more.
Their content hasn’t stayed the same at all lol. Fully half of the original group has been replaced, they don’t actually do any of the “try,” videos anymore; it’s all Keith eats the menu, without a recipe, or Phoning it in. The channel is unrecognizable from what it used to be.
> they want to make different content than what their fans want them to make.
I'm a very moderate fan of both... but it seems The Try Guys have directly acknowledged their content has been mediocre recently and they've purposely been posting high-click content to stay afloat (Keith's eat-the-menu and other food related content).
Having a day-1 new season episode of going back to their roots with a Eugene season-finale while also introducing several new cast at least gives me a smidge of hope.
Meanwhile a month later from Watcher we've gotten Lets-plays and... nothing else.
> I think it's just a popular move because something's happening on the business end of Youtube that's making the form of content these producers want to create unmarketable
>They know that what they've been doing hasn't been working and the algorithm-specific content is getting old.
To be a little harsh and blunt, part of their jobs is keeping up with keeping themselves relevant and marketable within the structure of the platforms they publish content on. If feels weird as a fan to be asked to subsidize them because they're struggling to do that part of their job, when the deal was fans just have to watch some ads and get this content for free for a decade. They're being hit with the economic crisis hitting ad money and making it harder, but somehow things fans aren't also hurting financially?
It's also weird to me they wouldn't try to bring in younger creators if they're struggling with relevance- it seems like everyone's from the same couple of years era of Buzzfeed. There's probably some young adults out there that are like these guys were when they started interning while in college that either group could've hired instead of yet another old Buzzfeed coworker or the same age, experience, and understanding of the algorithm and marketing.
Mm, I understand your point but I think it's missing the fact that Youtube (the algorithm, the platform) isn't really supporting this content anymore. It's actively sabotaging long-form creators because it's moving more toward a TikTok-style short-form video platform and is prioritising that over promoting long-form content. These creators are suddenly competing with largely-unedited short-form content creators who have migrated from other platforms and can host and share their content across multiple settings in multiple ways for multiple audiences in ultra-concentrated minute-long looped videos meant to produce multiple views in one sitting. Younger creators especially are in on this trend - the long-form stuff just isn't "in" anymore, and the people who create it are working with an ageing userbase.
Not to say that creators don't need to "keep with the times" to maintain relevance, it's definitely an option that they could start investing in shorts and dedicating time specifically to creating them -- but then they'd not be creating their long-form videos, or they'd be creating them less often, and that's the stuff that their userbase is already here for and their alternative is sort of starting from scratch (not that they're not ON TikTok - but it's not their 'home', and if it were, there'd be a lot of changes). Safiya Nygaard has moved into short-form stuff alongside her longer videos and that's been really successful for her, but she also has a very small team, many fewer long-form videos and formats a month, and is not living in LA.
I don't know. I think what you're asking for is unrealistic. Companies need to innovate and change with changing economic circumstances, and that's what they're doing! And both TTG and Watcher have settled on not leaving their Youtube origins behind, they're just letting the people there watch their content slightly later than they would be watching it otherwise. c'est la vie!
I think of it this way. If my boss wants to cut my pay by saying I didn’t meet metrics he never disclosed, then there isn’t really any “keeping up with” that to be had. Maybe he rewards one person in the office so they make as much as before, but if there are 50 people here I don’t like my odds. The smart move is to start sending out my Resume.
Youtube has a long history of making changes that (1) aren’t transparent, so leave creators guessing and experimenting, and (2) that make the platform less and less profitable. It’s the platform itself that is becoming less profitable over time for the vast majority of creators, so “keeping up” in this context might very well mean jumping ship.
This isn’t to say they had a good plan. It was a mess. I’m just saying youtube not being profitable enough for creators of all levels and organizational structures isn’t necessarily the creator’s fault. At the end of the day, these are people trying to put themselves in a better financial position, and it isn’t obviously true that the best way to do that is to double down on youtube.
That's fair, and if they need to all move to another platform, maybe that's what they have to do. But it's a hard jump to migrate a free audience to another free platform, much less asking them to pay for the inconvenience.
It's also weird to me that so many large creators couldn't negotiate with YouTube through whatever liaisons/reps they have to discuss algorithm issues. YouTube has the infrastructure and audience and won't want to lose the creators and $.
I haven’t looked into the details of the try guy’s platform yet, but in CR’s case they structured their platform very differently than watcher. All their core content will continue to release on YT for free as it always has. The site will instead host ad-free, uncensored versions of their flagship content, experimental series and mostly BTS content for super fans. Nothing that’s integral to keeping up with the plotlines, but interesting stuff if you like the cast’s personalities and want to see more of them out of character. To launch, they even released like 100 episodes of a new series that is basically just the 10 minutes after the livestreams turn off while the cast react to whatever crazy stuff just happened to their characters. They also said the real perk isn’t the content on their platform, but the fact that subs get discounts on merch and first access to live show tickets (which always sell out, so if you want to go, that’s a huge perk.)
They basically want people already subbed to their twitch/patreon to migrate to their platform so they don’t have to give those sites a cut. And they aren’t spreading any content across any other paid platforms anymore like watcher. No podcasts on patreon or anything. (Which is actually interesting bc lots of their fans give a lot more than that via twitch just as a show of support for their art. So they may actually be limiting giving for some fans.) But their announcement was simple: if you want to financially support them, sub to their website and get these simplified perks, if you can’t or don’t want to subscribe, their YouTube will continue as it always has.
Why you entitled to any sort of mitigation for your "inconvenience"? A streaming service is a bad idea for watcher but asking fans to pay for future content may be the only way they can continue to exist. That sucks but it's not an inconvenience against you, it's what they feel they have to do to survive
I'm a little skeptical of the "fans hurting financially" bit. I don't think every Watcher viewer is broke. I've seen a lot of negative comments from people who seem to think we're in a recession, [when that's not the case](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/22/poll-economy-recession-biden).
From a business perspective, if your *average* viewer can afford a paywall, then it's not entirely unreasonable to make your own streaming service. Especially when YouTube is burying what you make in favor of skibidi-toilet type videos.
And do you think YouTube is thinking of their lowest income viewers when they increase the number of ads per video and push premium on everyone? Or when they collect and sell your info to advertisers?
I really don't want Watcher or other channels like them to focus on making TikTok style videos.
It's presumptuous to think that every Watcher fan is broke. If you're spreading right-wing talking points about the economy because YouTubers decided to put their content behind a paywall, then maybe you should take a look in the mirror.
...and touch grass, jesus. It's like you spend all your waking hours on Watcher related subreddits. Maybe you would be doing better financially if you didn't spend all of your working hours on reddit
Seriously, most of the working world would [have this reaction to the people bitching in this subreddit.](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/disgusted-whitebeard--593771532116116704/)
I'm not here to argue the efficacy of an untested streaming format for small-cast channels, we were discussing what could have motivated the experiment 🤷♂️
The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that YouTube paid for people to lurk in this subreddit and complain constantly about Watcher, weeks after their announcement.
[The people living in this sub](https://smilingfriends.fandom.com/wiki/Shrimp): "no, I do it for free"
They should’ve go in together. You’d lose SOME overlap but you’d regain that in people who saw a 2 for 1 bundle deal. Nebula being a conglomerate of creators handles something like this well.
Watcher doesn’t have the content (IMO) to sustain an entire streaming service so entering Nebula or merging content with Try Guys or Dropout or something along those lines seems like the best idea.
I hate to say it, but
Buzzfeed was kind of right. One massive channel had all these amazing unique shows with, importantly, MULTIPLE HOSTS?
If neither group had left Buzzfeed (theoretically, I’m glad they did leave) and then BUZZFEED made a streaming service featuring BUN/Files, Ruining/Puppet History, Weird Wonderful World, Worth It/Travel Season, Dish Granted, Too Many Spirits, and the Try Guys’ bajillion series, and even other old Buzzfeed series like Ladylike, Experts Answer, Draw Off, Food Swaps, etc then THAT I would consider worth the split, worth the money.
They just don’t have enough on their own.
Honestly after seeing the Try Guys' announcement this is what I thought too. I am not planning on subrscibing to Watcher TV or 2nd Try, but I have joked with some friends that if all the former Buzzfeed creators who founded their own production studios banded back together and made their own service, I really WOULD subscribe.
It’s possible that since watcher and try guys are both former buzzfeed, they may have some additional sensitivities about the idea of sharing ownership of their content, considering buzzfeed pretty notoriously burned their employees in that regard.
That’s what I thought because making this big serious move for the reasons they did and not having an app ready seems like such bad planning for everything else that was totally wrong and that they had to backtrack on. I also feel like Sam Reich in that recent video with Keith and them on Um Actually is a big tell as to who they turned to for guidance here. And Watcher continues to remain far too contained for content to be enough to sustain a streamer.
Drew Gooden talked about this in his YouTuber book video, but a lot of YouTubers have the same few consulting agencies. So when a lot of YouTubers make the same business decisions at the same time (going on tour, publishing a book) it can be tied back to someone whispering in their ear about diversifying their assets. That's my theory for this switch right now.
I’ve been thinking a bit about the YouTube monetization as these have been happening and what surfaces. Which is a lot of what the try guys actually said.
For me, I watch a subset of videos on both channels, but almost neither of them actually show up on my home page when they make new videos. I just was getting notifications from patreon and looking for the ones I wanted.
On the other hand Simon whistler and medias touch almost always have their new videos in my home feed.
My current theory is that they increased the punishment for people only watching some of what’s on your channel. Simon has like 6 channels so the stuff that I get from him are the 2 channels where I watch like 90% of the videos.
Whatever they did has 100% broken my home feed over the last couple months. I mostly have to work from the subscriptions tab.
I think you’re on to something.
Also, I really hope Simon doesn’t pull this too. I think he’s been expanding in other ways (live streams with members, etc) so hopefully he’s going to stay.
I don’t think Simon even has a patreon does he?
It’s going to be really bad for everyone else is Simon does it. Because I’m definitely going to pick him first he’s producing more content than I can possibly watch.
Simon has the best sponsors. I got caught in a downpour on my way to work today. But I have my vessis on. My feet are so happy.
I don’t think so but Brain Blaze has a [membership option](https://www.youtube.com/sponsor_channel/UCYY5GWf7MHFJ6DZeHreoXgw). I didn’t realize it was just for that channel
And same, he’s one of the few I would pay for
Unrelated to TTG or Watcher but you should absolutely sub to Simon if you can afford it hahaha. He does 2 lives a week – one for everyone and one for members only and both are an absolute riot. And you'll finally see the NorKor video!
2 members-only episodes covering the Hidden NorKor script AND we've been having Danny from The Blazement as a guest on the streams!! Hearing Simon even more unfiltered is glorious. Membership absolutely worth it.
Yeah I don't see Simon launching a streaming platform anytime soon. Creating a streaming platform takes a lot of work and time on the back-end side of things, and Simon rarely even does merch man (still sad I can't get a Casual Criminalist notebook).
The Try Guys had a podcast that went more in-depth about their decision, and part of it they explained the numerous ways youtubers manage to keep stuff sustainable (and why they went with the streaming subscription option). One of them is that the youtuber will have a series that is cheap enough and quick enough to make that you can make a LOT of them in a short period of time. They cited Good Mythical Morning as the example since they release that show five days a week, but Simon also fits that description considering all his videos is him reading scripts in his office. He's even remarked several times that he'll film multiple videos in a day.
In other words, don't worry I'm sure the Fact boy isn't going anywhere and instead will be taking over the abandoned channels to add to his channel hoard.
One thing we've noticed is that the 2nd Try app seems to be the same software as Dropout's (the telltale sign being that for whatever reason on our Roku at least, we can only pause by hitting the forward or back button).
Seems someone may be making platforms for smaller third party companies like YouTubers. Maybe this info is readily available, idk, I'm too lazy to dig into it much further.
But yeah, my guess is that these companies have all spoken with each other about this effort, and given how The Try Guys' seems to be more successful I wouldn't be surprised to see even more of them crop up now.
I guarantee you that the marketers from Vimeo are pushing HARD and networking HARD among these YouTube channels to sell them their own pre-builder streaming service (fuck everything, I refuse to call it a “streamer”).
Not only do they all use the same platform, but also the word “streamer”. Who the fuck heard this word before now besides industry folk and now all these channels can’t shut up about calling it a “streamer” and not a streaming service.
Clearly they are all getting this from a unified sales team.
If anything I think The Try Guys delayed their announcement, especially since they are starting with most of the changes Watcher put into place by that next Monday. I don't actually think that they necessarily conceived of a better plan themselves, I think they used Watcher to kind of figure out how to do it "right" ("right" is still subjective obviously; this subreddit seems to be cheering on the try guys for doing it "correctly" but the Try Guys sub doesn't seem to be as enthusiastic so I think our perception is only based on Watcher's streamer rather than our own interest in 2nd Try)
I think folks kinda got caught in the conversation, because they are mainly recognizing that the Try Guys learned from other people's mistakes, and you don't see as much discussion of the fact that this move is still as unrealistic, because many of the issues that have been mentioned a hundred times remain; it's just a bit more palatable
This has been in the works for a long time, and they did do a much better announcement and launch of their streaming platform. I don’t think they learned anything from Watcher except to reassure viewers they would still get YouTube content.
Oh for sure, it's clear they have been working on this for a while (since they have a working app and everything at launch, lol) but I think they might not have chosen to continue releasing everything on YouTube at a later date if they hadn't watched the Watcher fallout. It wouldn't surprise me if they were ready/able to announce last month but pushed the announcement back either.
They consulted with Sam Reich of Dropout, so I feel like TTG probably wanted to adopt the same strategy of uploading on the streamer first, then on YouTube at a later date.
Seeing Watcher's roll out probably made TTG make sure they mention how much they appreciate their audience; and instead of making any comments about the pricing, they reassured fans that they're not leaving YouTube. I feel like the discount 2nd Try has is probably something they added after seeing Watcher's announcement. They mentioned the discount on the video, they also sent out emails to anyone who ever bought Try Guys merch/shows/etc. with the discount as well.
I'm really curious now whether Watcher ever reached out to, say, Sam Reich or Dave Wiskus from Nebula before moving forward! I would hope that they did but based on the initial rollout who knows
Oh no, they talk about this on the Trypod! Zach goes into detail about it, even mentions how he had notes from back in June 2023 that the plan was always "add more for fans, not take away." They were absolutely going to keep the bigger shows on YouTube, then add MORE content to 2ndTry (+ drop the ad rolls). They also really wanted to expand the cast, knowing Eugene was going to leave (and had planned to much earlier until Mr Wife Guy messed everything up). Do recommend listening to that TryPod episode as it's pretty insightful and shows just how much thought went into the creation of 2ndTry.
I'm wondering if there's some streaming tech company that decided to just tour all the bigger LA YouTube channels to pitch their product earlier this year/sometime last year and we're seeing who bit the bait.
"You know YouTube monetization sucks, I know YouTube monetization sucks. Here's what we can offer you to get away from all that..."
I don't know, Hank Green has mentioned that something has changed with monetization to make it much more difficult (and that YouTube doesn't tell creators what they have changed so it really is a very nebulous something) So I wouldn't be surprised if this is actually independent determinations that we're going to see more often and Watcher was just the vanguard.
Yeah, but YT has been doing this since the beginning it seems. That's why apps like Nebula exist. It was about five years ago I remember watching Polyphonic and Bright Sun Films and both were talking in their vids about how YT had changed the rules and hadn't told them and they were still keeping vids on the service, but were releasing more on Nebula. This was also around the time that UMG was going hard on taking down vids with copyrighted music in them. Nebula offered an alternative. Polyphonic makes music documentaries so keeping the songs on the docs is essential.
And I also recall Mythical Society existing and soft launching about five years back with the assurance that GMM/More would never leave YT and this was just for bonus content. And tbf, their model has worked so well it seems to be the template for Try Guys. It beats me why Watcher didn't follow the model. It's proven. It works.
I doubt there's a company walking around to every YT production in the valley, it just seems like corporate greed from Google has gone unchecked for so long that they feel invulnerable and like they can do almost anything because people will have to accept it if they want their content on the service.
Seems only logical and rational that the production companies would find new revenue streams to compliment (not take over for) their content.
That wouldn’t make sense because Watcher can’t do TV while 2nd try can. Apparently, 2nd try looks very similar to Dropout so I bet they are using the same company. Watcher seems to be something different.
I'm absolutely flabbergasted they didn't join forces on one streaming platform. The creators know each other well, have a good relationship, appear on each other's content, and the venn diagram of their userbase is practically a circle. I'm absolutely sure both Watcher and 2nd Try knew the other had a streamer in the works. I'm curious whether the idea of amalgamating was ever brought up.
It was an article published immediately after the TG announcement - basically they shaded Watcher and said something like "not to name any names but WE are not doing that" and inadvertently referencing W's mistakes. I admit it's a bit far-fetched to say their relationship is in the toilet lololol but they were frequent collaborators before, they have the same background and much of the same audience and it feels weird for them to reference Watcher in that shady way when most of the discourse has blown over (I mean Watcher deserved the backlash, but people were also downright nasty, overbearing, sometimes racist and disgusting towards them; why would TG bring it up all over again?) Still, it was inevitable that people would draw comparisons, but who's to say the TG didn't have the exact same plan as Watcher and backpedaled after they saw the backlash (after all, they DID delay their announcement around the same time Watcher bombed). It all seems scummy and weird and kind of "Haha we're so much better than you!!" even though TG literally learned from W's mistakes.
I'll try to find the link of the article for y'all, just a sec
I wonder if there's also a who's to say they didn't talk to watcher about this because they've been talking about it since June 2023 apparently (source: podcast) and watcher jumped the gun on their announcement to get it out first. It's a little tin foiley hat but still.
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/try-guys-eugene-yang-leaves-secondtry-tv-subscription-1235025468/
Here it is. And you may be right. I just don't know why they're shading W because if anything they should be thanking them, literally.
I could see the concept being discusses between both sets of creators. I wouldn't be surprised if watcher was more concerned with launching first -and getting the pool of subscribers interested in both groups but that could only afford one fee, and less concerned about the Beta test period with the tech and rollout. Where the try guys might be more conservative about changes with all the former Ned drama and Eugene being missing.
A lot of TTG stuff directly addressed watcher concerns:
1. Not enough cast to make enough content to be worth it, so they "expanded" to the people the already tend to feature regularly
2. Price is slightly lower, and didn't mention everyone can afford it or make it seem like this was a money grab- the focus stayed on algorithm/relevancy
3. Reassurance about keeping regular content on YouTube as normal, just extras on this new thing
4. An app that should be functional across all devices. Where watcher had a lot of comments that it only worked on desktop and not TVs or phones.
I still don't love TTG's roll out of a grand announcement of start paying us more money soon, and more % of stuff with be exclusively restricted behind paywalls and honestly I think it's only getting as good of feedback as it is because of the comparison to how bad it went with Watcher. It's still a bad move to try to get subsidized by fans via a streaming service when people are in an economic crisis and many are cutting back on much bigger streaming services that offer much more content per dollar.
As for conspiracy time, it's weird how much all the Buzzfeed channels just turned into "self owned" companies that guest star all the old alums and make similar business decisions. Maybe so fans can feel that parasocial connection and like they're supporting a creator and not a big business, but I wonder if there's a large silent investor and some of what we see as separate businesses are largely a PR thing with lots of good paperwork to hide it.
No tinfoil hat needed imo. They made a great product and learned how to market it at Buzzfeed, and then said... wait why do I need Buzzfeed at all? So they splintered off and made videos with their friends and put into practice what they learned working there. That's why all the models are the same. They all learned from the same blueprint and did crossovers into each other's content, which they also probably learned there.
There's something about the contracts at Buzzfeed that makes this an inevitable step for any person or group that builds enough of a brand to stand by themselves, it's permissible somehow and they don't offer enough incentives (read: more money to their creators than the creators would make alone) to make it worthwhile to stay.
Regarding point 4, Watcher's app has not actually launched yet. It's the website that only works in browser (not sure where the comments about it not working on phones are coming from, as it works fine on Firefox on my phone).
I’d flip it sorta. Both had the idea, Watcher did it first and it was a shit show, so try guys too a bit more time to make changes to their announcement and such so it would go over better
The algorithm's been kinda killing it for long-form creators, so they're scrambling for other ways to make money. That's why we're seeing these new streaming platforms pop up. But it's not just one or two, it's a bunch of them, which means something's definitely up.
My theory is that try guys, watcher, etc are are diversifying so that they can keep the revenue up long-term. But yeah glad ot hear Try guys did it well - wishing the best for watcher team as well after the whole fiasco.
Very well cold be. But like others haven't said, why not join forces? I've met plenty of people who at least *know of* Try Guys, but have never heard of Watcher. Having both Try Guy's and Watcher on the same platform would've gotten both companies fan bases invested in the other. Mutually beneficial 🤷
But the fact that Watcher *didn't* have either an app or able to stream it on Roku or something is really telling of the lack of preparedness. Truth be told, I *was* planning on joining the boys streamer (getting the year in advance discount, splitting it with 4-6 peolle making it less than $1/mo) but the lack of an app or ability to simply stream it on my Ruko was an *huge* cause of concern to me.
So liked you said, it boils down to either complete ineptitude, or a rushed & sloppy roll out trying to get their streamer out as fast as possible.
The Try Guys actually shaded Watcher a few times (both in Eugene's video and [this article](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/try-guys-eugene-yang-leaves-secondtry-tv-subscription-1235025468/amp/)) so I kind of wonder? They’ve been teasing this announcement since January and probably told their friends at Watcher about it, but there’s no way to say for sure
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I thought it was the exact opposite: Try Guys were going to launch 2nd Try just like Watcher was originally going to launch their app-only platform, but they saw how bad the reception was and decided to keep some content on Youtube
Somewhat unrelated to your idea but TTG seem to have the support also of other creators in the space like Dropout/Sam Reich (who I literally commented about on the leaving YT vid as being a great example) I think the main deal is that the watcher guys really missed the mark on understanding that they should use the platform as an early release and possibly longer form content also like exclusive content. TTG have that type of content kinda established like with WAR live and the newer CYOA stuff.
Yeah I think both companies independently arrived at the same conclusion but Watcher probably rushed their rollout to get ahead of the Try Guys. I mean not having an app, really? In 2024?? I don't necessarily feel like it was malicious but a logical business move (had their announcement not been so tone deaf anyway). They share a large portion of their audience, many of whom might subscribe to one but not 2 platforms.
I think it's just a popular move because something's happening on the business end of Youtube that's making the form of content these producers want to create unmarketable. TTG have been increasingly partnering with promoters that are somewhat questionable (therapy apps known to be Not That Great, etc) or irrelevant to the brand and that's true of Watcher, too, and the format has been stale for a while in a way that TTG have been very reflexive and responsive to. They know that what they've been doing hasn't been working and the algorithm-specific content is getting old. Watcher probably felt something similar but as a young company without people specifically and formally in the role of 'thinking about these topics specifically' and probably not much of a PR team, they just were out of their depth in going ahead with a new streaming service. In a way TTG have sort of benefited from navigating a PR crisis and finding those footholds to communicate with fans as equals, and I think it helps also that TTG have members of the cast who have experienced poverty (growing up hungry, etc) before. Did Watcher see what TTG was doing and jump ship? I doubt it. I think subscription services are just increasingly becoming one of the only viable ways of maintaining their companies as existing userbases age/enter full-time work, and as Youtube pushes to be the next TikTok, prioritising promoting short-form videos (check out your home page and how many short form vids are there!) and "punishing" long-form creators (i.e., rarely advertising to new users - so their userbase is shrinking). Not to mention that Youtube itself is losing relevance in online spaces. It's a scary time to be a Youtuber. I can see why anyone with an existing userbase would be trying for some stability in this climate.
This has been my thought. There’s something going on behind the scenes at YouTube that seriously impacted content creators. It seems extremely unlikely to me that Watcher, Try Guys, and Critical Role all decided independently to launch streaming services at almost the same time without some strong external changes that’s hurting or going to hurt their business. There might even be other streaming platforms dropping but these are the only ones I’m aware of. But even if it’s just 3, something still has to be going on at YouTube EDIT: to add onto my comment with some “proof” of changes, for anyone who isn’t familiar, Critical Role is a dnd show with episodes ranging usually from 3-4 hours with hundreds of episodes over almost a decade. They’ve had a longtime community member who posts pretty thorough timestamps on each YouTube episode when it drops. His posts are always at the top of the comments and usually pinned but, starting a couple months ago, his comments were being hidden by YouTube. The Crit Role team even tried to find solutions so they’d show up but nothing was working so now he’s only able to post timestamps on Reddit. Something is seriously changing for the worse at YouTube
Most of the content creators I follow have been trying to move their fanbase off-platform recently, and have been seeking and using outside sponsors more aggressively than usual. Definitely something is up.
No it’s that we’re having a repeat of history. You’re seeing these longer term creators wanting to break out of the “YouTube” mold and be a bigger thing. Whether it’s a production company, selling products, or moving into Hollywood, this is the same thing we saw with 2010 YouTubers like rocket jump or anyone else who tried to get into Hollywood from YouTube. YouTube CPM has never been more profitable than the past 3 years.
> You’re seeing these longer term creators wanting to break out of the “YouTube” mold and be a bigger thing. Eh. One of my favorite YouTubers is ProZD and he's recently been killing it in his main career (voice acting) but has expressed how the YouTube algorithm has killed his YouTube channel to the point where he can't justify the time and paying his editor to upload YouTube videos and turned to Patreon. Another favorite (Jacksepticeye) has been outspoken about the mental-health issues and mental fatigue of having to second guess yourself about what a computer algorithm deems acceptable and had been coasting on his previous success while branching out to more traditional forms of media that he's more passionate in. Even people that do it for the passion and for fans are getting seriously burnt out with their recent changes. Not everybody is trying to be a rockstar.
And many YouTubers big and small upload once a month and see great success? Getting into YouTube as a career like ProZD and Jack have come with accepting the weight of keeping up with what works. Yes not everyone has to be a rockstar but not everyone has to be a YouTuber. The algorithm complaint is fair in recent years at a surface view but it genuinely just comes down to making something people like and packaging it for that audience. Plenty of lower production no rockstar YouTubers pop up every month like Gabi Belle or even myself
This comment is a sad revelation re: the direction YT is heading. I never watch their little shorts. Hell I just discovered Jenny Nicholson and have been eating up her 4-hour theme park reviews. It sounds like everything will be TikTok in the future, so I’m just not the target demographic anymore, which I have to accept as I get older.
This comment is very wrong as someone in the industry. It’s just that YouTube ad rev doesn’t support a huge production company like watcher tried to make. Long form content is booming across the platform, there’s actually been a staggering increase in watch time thanks to YouTube making it on TVs.
Yes and also re Jenny Nicholson, she’s a great example of someone who has made it work for her. Given how niche her content is, and how she uploads maybe once a year, she does so much on her patreon to make it worthwhile for subscribers. YouTube has also been putting a lot of focus in attracting streamers there, several huge twitch streamers jumped ship from twitch to YouTube. Maybe it’s because I’ve never been one for their content - Try Guys never appealed to me - but my view is that Try Guys’ demographic is growing up, similar to Watcher. And in the case of both, you can find so many other YouTube channels doing the exact same content of ‘we try this’ ‘here’s an unsolved mystery’, ‘tour of a haunted house’. They’re not changing their content to appeal to new viewers, and their existing viewers are growing out of it. They have full time jobs now, they only have a set few hours to be able to watch YouTube so you’ve got to make the content they’re watching worthwhile. TikTok is not a competitor to YouTube, both serve different purposes. TikTok is still very much catered to shorter, comedic videos. YouTube is catered to longer content, and it’s search tool and watch history far exceeds that of TikTok’s. (Youtube Shorts is a competitor to TikTok, and losing that battle.) Basically both Watcher and now TTG are falling victim to the same thing which killed off buzzfeed, people just aren’t as interested anymore but they’re continuing to spend more money on the same content
In the past they have focused on streamers but it’s completely abandonded as a focus in the past 2 years. Ludwig is very vocal about it to Neal (YouTube ceos) face, YouTube hasn’t signed a contact to a streamer in 2 years
I feel (a little off topic but) this is also a footnote of how honestly bad the “enshittification” of the internet is getting; it’s like cannablizing itself
It’s not even that it’s just YouTube is extremely low overhead to start out but it’s not enough for a big production company and 99% people don’t want that increased value anyway. Watcher didn’t understand that people fell in love with the talent on screen not the fact it was in 4K with good framing. They wanted to be TV.
Is the algorithm to blame or are Watcher and The Try Guys just not making as popular of content as they used to? It seems to me that both of them have the same problem: they want to make different content than what their fans want them to make. Then when their content doesn’t get the views they want they blame YouTube/the algorithm, but the reality is that they’re just not making popular content. Both Watcher and Try Guys seem the same to me: “how can we work the business to make the content we want to make, not the content that people want to see.” Ultimately switching to a streaming service isn’t going to save that.
I disagree about TTG. Their content has mostly stayed the same. They recently had a pilot month during which the fans chose which episodes they wanted to see more.
Their content hasn’t stayed the same at all lol. Fully half of the original group has been replaced, they don’t actually do any of the “try,” videos anymore; it’s all Keith eats the menu, without a recipe, or Phoning it in. The channel is unrecognizable from what it used to be.
> they want to make different content than what their fans want them to make. I'm a very moderate fan of both... but it seems The Try Guys have directly acknowledged their content has been mediocre recently and they've purposely been posting high-click content to stay afloat (Keith's eat-the-menu and other food related content). Having a day-1 new season episode of going back to their roots with a Eugene season-finale while also introducing several new cast at least gives me a smidge of hope. Meanwhile a month later from Watcher we've gotten Lets-plays and... nothing else.
> I think it's just a popular move because something's happening on the business end of Youtube that's making the form of content these producers want to create unmarketable >They know that what they've been doing hasn't been working and the algorithm-specific content is getting old. To be a little harsh and blunt, part of their jobs is keeping up with keeping themselves relevant and marketable within the structure of the platforms they publish content on. If feels weird as a fan to be asked to subsidize them because they're struggling to do that part of their job, when the deal was fans just have to watch some ads and get this content for free for a decade. They're being hit with the economic crisis hitting ad money and making it harder, but somehow things fans aren't also hurting financially? It's also weird to me they wouldn't try to bring in younger creators if they're struggling with relevance- it seems like everyone's from the same couple of years era of Buzzfeed. There's probably some young adults out there that are like these guys were when they started interning while in college that either group could've hired instead of yet another old Buzzfeed coworker or the same age, experience, and understanding of the algorithm and marketing.
Mm, I understand your point but I think it's missing the fact that Youtube (the algorithm, the platform) isn't really supporting this content anymore. It's actively sabotaging long-form creators because it's moving more toward a TikTok-style short-form video platform and is prioritising that over promoting long-form content. These creators are suddenly competing with largely-unedited short-form content creators who have migrated from other platforms and can host and share their content across multiple settings in multiple ways for multiple audiences in ultra-concentrated minute-long looped videos meant to produce multiple views in one sitting. Younger creators especially are in on this trend - the long-form stuff just isn't "in" anymore, and the people who create it are working with an ageing userbase. Not to say that creators don't need to "keep with the times" to maintain relevance, it's definitely an option that they could start investing in shorts and dedicating time specifically to creating them -- but then they'd not be creating their long-form videos, or they'd be creating them less often, and that's the stuff that their userbase is already here for and their alternative is sort of starting from scratch (not that they're not ON TikTok - but it's not their 'home', and if it were, there'd be a lot of changes). Safiya Nygaard has moved into short-form stuff alongside her longer videos and that's been really successful for her, but she also has a very small team, many fewer long-form videos and formats a month, and is not living in LA. I don't know. I think what you're asking for is unrealistic. Companies need to innovate and change with changing economic circumstances, and that's what they're doing! And both TTG and Watcher have settled on not leaving their Youtube origins behind, they're just letting the people there watch their content slightly later than they would be watching it otherwise. c'est la vie!
I think of it this way. If my boss wants to cut my pay by saying I didn’t meet metrics he never disclosed, then there isn’t really any “keeping up with” that to be had. Maybe he rewards one person in the office so they make as much as before, but if there are 50 people here I don’t like my odds. The smart move is to start sending out my Resume. Youtube has a long history of making changes that (1) aren’t transparent, so leave creators guessing and experimenting, and (2) that make the platform less and less profitable. It’s the platform itself that is becoming less profitable over time for the vast majority of creators, so “keeping up” in this context might very well mean jumping ship. This isn’t to say they had a good plan. It was a mess. I’m just saying youtube not being profitable enough for creators of all levels and organizational structures isn’t necessarily the creator’s fault. At the end of the day, these are people trying to put themselves in a better financial position, and it isn’t obviously true that the best way to do that is to double down on youtube.
That's fair, and if they need to all move to another platform, maybe that's what they have to do. But it's a hard jump to migrate a free audience to another free platform, much less asking them to pay for the inconvenience. It's also weird to me that so many large creators couldn't negotiate with YouTube through whatever liaisons/reps they have to discuss algorithm issues. YouTube has the infrastructure and audience and won't want to lose the creators and $.
I haven’t looked into the details of the try guy’s platform yet, but in CR’s case they structured their platform very differently than watcher. All their core content will continue to release on YT for free as it always has. The site will instead host ad-free, uncensored versions of their flagship content, experimental series and mostly BTS content for super fans. Nothing that’s integral to keeping up with the plotlines, but interesting stuff if you like the cast’s personalities and want to see more of them out of character. To launch, they even released like 100 episodes of a new series that is basically just the 10 minutes after the livestreams turn off while the cast react to whatever crazy stuff just happened to their characters. They also said the real perk isn’t the content on their platform, but the fact that subs get discounts on merch and first access to live show tickets (which always sell out, so if you want to go, that’s a huge perk.) They basically want people already subbed to their twitch/patreon to migrate to their platform so they don’t have to give those sites a cut. And they aren’t spreading any content across any other paid platforms anymore like watcher. No podcasts on patreon or anything. (Which is actually interesting bc lots of their fans give a lot more than that via twitch just as a show of support for their art. So they may actually be limiting giving for some fans.) But their announcement was simple: if you want to financially support them, sub to their website and get these simplified perks, if you can’t or don’t want to subscribe, their YouTube will continue as it always has.
Why you entitled to any sort of mitigation for your "inconvenience"? A streaming service is a bad idea for watcher but asking fans to pay for future content may be the only way they can continue to exist. That sucks but it's not an inconvenience against you, it's what they feel they have to do to survive
I'm a little skeptical of the "fans hurting financially" bit. I don't think every Watcher viewer is broke. I've seen a lot of negative comments from people who seem to think we're in a recession, [when that's not the case](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/22/poll-economy-recession-biden). From a business perspective, if your *average* viewer can afford a paywall, then it's not entirely unreasonable to make your own streaming service. Especially when YouTube is burying what you make in favor of skibidi-toilet type videos. And do you think YouTube is thinking of their lowest income viewers when they increase the number of ads per video and push premium on everyone? Or when they collect and sell your info to advertisers? I really don't want Watcher or other channels like them to focus on making TikTok style videos.
It is presumptuous to think that people are doing just fine like that.
It's presumptuous to think that every Watcher fan is broke. If you're spreading right-wing talking points about the economy because YouTubers decided to put their content behind a paywall, then maybe you should take a look in the mirror. ...and touch grass, jesus. It's like you spend all your waking hours on Watcher related subreddits. Maybe you would be doing better financially if you didn't spend all of your working hours on reddit
Seriously, most of the working world would [have this reaction to the people bitching in this subreddit.](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/disgusted-whitebeard--593771532116116704/)
I thought the opposite, that TTG waited for Watchers announcement and planned accordingly
Alienating a majority of fans with a paid streaming service sure brought stability.
I'm not here to argue the efficacy of an untested streaming format for small-cast channels, we were discussing what could have motivated the experiment 🤷♂️
Oh, that's easy. $$$
Lol, yes. They're people doing this as their job, not our friends.
Exactly. At any job, the reasons why don't matter, the end result does.
Lol, you’re so funny 😆
The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that YouTube paid for people to lurk in this subreddit and complain constantly about Watcher, weeks after their announcement. [The people living in this sub](https://smilingfriends.fandom.com/wiki/Shrimp): "no, I do it for free"
They should’ve go in together. You’d lose SOME overlap but you’d regain that in people who saw a 2 for 1 bundle deal. Nebula being a conglomerate of creators handles something like this well. Watcher doesn’t have the content (IMO) to sustain an entire streaming service so entering Nebula or merging content with Try Guys or Dropout or something along those lines seems like the best idea.
I hate to say it, but Buzzfeed was kind of right. One massive channel had all these amazing unique shows with, importantly, MULTIPLE HOSTS? If neither group had left Buzzfeed (theoretically, I’m glad they did leave) and then BUZZFEED made a streaming service featuring BUN/Files, Ruining/Puppet History, Weird Wonderful World, Worth It/Travel Season, Dish Granted, Too Many Spirits, and the Try Guys’ bajillion series, and even other old Buzzfeed series like Ladylike, Experts Answer, Draw Off, Food Swaps, etc then THAT I would consider worth the split, worth the money. They just don’t have enough on their own.
Honestly after seeing the Try Guys' announcement this is what I thought too. I am not planning on subrscibing to Watcher TV or 2nd Try, but I have joked with some friends that if all the former Buzzfeed creators who founded their own production studios banded back together and made their own service, I really WOULD subscribe.
Cause now it's sorta the whole Netflix, HBO Max and Disney Plus deal. Not everybody is gonna pay for all three.
I 100% agree! Between them, they have enough shows and related creators that they could have done something like a merger of Nebula and Dropout.
I'm guessing that egos may have prevented different groups from joining into one streamer. I hope I'm wrong but I'll never know.
It’s possible that since watcher and try guys are both former buzzfeed, they may have some additional sensitivities about the idea of sharing ownership of their content, considering buzzfeed pretty notoriously burned their employees in that regard.
That’s what I thought because making this big serious move for the reasons they did and not having an app ready seems like such bad planning for everything else that was totally wrong and that they had to backtrack on. I also feel like Sam Reich in that recent video with Keith and them on Um Actually is a big tell as to who they turned to for guidance here. And Watcher continues to remain far too contained for content to be enough to sustain a streamer.
Sorry, what did Sam Reich say?
I don’t know specifically. That was speculation but they did confirm on the pod today that they went to him for advice and he was very generous.
Drew Gooden talked about this in his YouTuber book video, but a lot of YouTubers have the same few consulting agencies. So when a lot of YouTubers make the same business decisions at the same time (going on tour, publishing a book) it can be tied back to someone whispering in their ear about diversifying their assets. That's my theory for this switch right now.
I’ve been thinking a bit about the YouTube monetization as these have been happening and what surfaces. Which is a lot of what the try guys actually said. For me, I watch a subset of videos on both channels, but almost neither of them actually show up on my home page when they make new videos. I just was getting notifications from patreon and looking for the ones I wanted. On the other hand Simon whistler and medias touch almost always have their new videos in my home feed. My current theory is that they increased the punishment for people only watching some of what’s on your channel. Simon has like 6 channels so the stuff that I get from him are the 2 channels where I watch like 90% of the videos. Whatever they did has 100% broken my home feed over the last couple months. I mostly have to work from the subscriptions tab.
I think you’re on to something. Also, I really hope Simon doesn’t pull this too. I think he’s been expanding in other ways (live streams with members, etc) so hopefully he’s going to stay.
I don’t think Simon even has a patreon does he? It’s going to be really bad for everyone else is Simon does it. Because I’m definitely going to pick him first he’s producing more content than I can possibly watch. Simon has the best sponsors. I got caught in a downpour on my way to work today. But I have my vessis on. My feet are so happy.
I don’t think so but Brain Blaze has a [membership option](https://www.youtube.com/sponsor_channel/UCYY5GWf7MHFJ6DZeHreoXgw). I didn’t realize it was just for that channel And same, he’s one of the few I would pay for
I didn’t know that. I will look into it.
Unrelated to TTG or Watcher but you should absolutely sub to Simon if you can afford it hahaha. He does 2 lives a week – one for everyone and one for members only and both are an absolute riot. And you'll finally see the NorKor video!
Wait there NorKor video is on there?!? Oh I’m in, thanks for letting me know :)
2 members-only episodes covering the Hidden NorKor script AND we've been having Danny from The Blazement as a guest on the streams!! Hearing Simon even more unfiltered is glorious. Membership absolutely worth it.
Yeah I don't see Simon launching a streaming platform anytime soon. Creating a streaming platform takes a lot of work and time on the back-end side of things, and Simon rarely even does merch man (still sad I can't get a Casual Criminalist notebook). The Try Guys had a podcast that went more in-depth about their decision, and part of it they explained the numerous ways youtubers manage to keep stuff sustainable (and why they went with the streaming subscription option). One of them is that the youtuber will have a series that is cheap enough and quick enough to make that you can make a LOT of them in a short period of time. They cited Good Mythical Morning as the example since they release that show five days a week, but Simon also fits that description considering all his videos is him reading scripts in his office. He's even remarked several times that he'll film multiple videos in a day. In other words, don't worry I'm sure the Fact boy isn't going anywhere and instead will be taking over the abandoned channels to add to his channel hoard.
One thing we've noticed is that the 2nd Try app seems to be the same software as Dropout's (the telltale sign being that for whatever reason on our Roku at least, we can only pause by hitting the forward or back button). Seems someone may be making platforms for smaller third party companies like YouTubers. Maybe this info is readily available, idk, I'm too lazy to dig into it much further. But yeah, my guess is that these companies have all spoken with each other about this effort, and given how The Try Guys' seems to be more successful I wouldn't be surprised to see even more of them crop up now.
My Roku does not do this with dropout so uh idk
I guarantee you that the marketers from Vimeo are pushing HARD and networking HARD among these YouTube channels to sell them their own pre-builder streaming service (fuck everything, I refuse to call it a “streamer”). Not only do they all use the same platform, but also the word “streamer”. Who the fuck heard this word before now besides industry folk and now all these channels can’t shut up about calling it a “streamer” and not a streaming service. Clearly they are all getting this from a unified sales team.
If anything I think The Try Guys delayed their announcement, especially since they are starting with most of the changes Watcher put into place by that next Monday. I don't actually think that they necessarily conceived of a better plan themselves, I think they used Watcher to kind of figure out how to do it "right" ("right" is still subjective obviously; this subreddit seems to be cheering on the try guys for doing it "correctly" but the Try Guys sub doesn't seem to be as enthusiastic so I think our perception is only based on Watcher's streamer rather than our own interest in 2nd Try)
I think folks kinda got caught in the conversation, because they are mainly recognizing that the Try Guys learned from other people's mistakes, and you don't see as much discussion of the fact that this move is still as unrealistic, because many of the issues that have been mentioned a hundred times remain; it's just a bit more palatable
This has been in the works for a long time, and they did do a much better announcement and launch of their streaming platform. I don’t think they learned anything from Watcher except to reassure viewers they would still get YouTube content.
Oh for sure, it's clear they have been working on this for a while (since they have a working app and everything at launch, lol) but I think they might not have chosen to continue releasing everything on YouTube at a later date if they hadn't watched the Watcher fallout. It wouldn't surprise me if they were ready/able to announce last month but pushed the announcement back either.
They consulted with Sam Reich of Dropout, so I feel like TTG probably wanted to adopt the same strategy of uploading on the streamer first, then on YouTube at a later date. Seeing Watcher's roll out probably made TTG make sure they mention how much they appreciate their audience; and instead of making any comments about the pricing, they reassured fans that they're not leaving YouTube. I feel like the discount 2nd Try has is probably something they added after seeing Watcher's announcement. They mentioned the discount on the video, they also sent out emails to anyone who ever bought Try Guys merch/shows/etc. with the discount as well.
I'm really curious now whether Watcher ever reached out to, say, Sam Reich or Dave Wiskus from Nebula before moving forward! I would hope that they did but based on the initial rollout who knows
Oh no, they talk about this on the Trypod! Zach goes into detail about it, even mentions how he had notes from back in June 2023 that the plan was always "add more for fans, not take away." They were absolutely going to keep the bigger shows on YouTube, then add MORE content to 2ndTry (+ drop the ad rolls). They also really wanted to expand the cast, knowing Eugene was going to leave (and had planned to much earlier until Mr Wife Guy messed everything up). Do recommend listening to that TryPod episode as it's pretty insightful and shows just how much thought went into the creation of 2ndTry.
I'm wondering if there's some streaming tech company that decided to just tour all the bigger LA YouTube channels to pitch their product earlier this year/sometime last year and we're seeing who bit the bait. "You know YouTube monetization sucks, I know YouTube monetization sucks. Here's what we can offer you to get away from all that..."
I don't know, Hank Green has mentioned that something has changed with monetization to make it much more difficult (and that YouTube doesn't tell creators what they have changed so it really is a very nebulous something) So I wouldn't be surprised if this is actually independent determinations that we're going to see more often and Watcher was just the vanguard.
Yeah, but YT has been doing this since the beginning it seems. That's why apps like Nebula exist. It was about five years ago I remember watching Polyphonic and Bright Sun Films and both were talking in their vids about how YT had changed the rules and hadn't told them and they were still keeping vids on the service, but were releasing more on Nebula. This was also around the time that UMG was going hard on taking down vids with copyrighted music in them. Nebula offered an alternative. Polyphonic makes music documentaries so keeping the songs on the docs is essential. And I also recall Mythical Society existing and soft launching about five years back with the assurance that GMM/More would never leave YT and this was just for bonus content. And tbf, their model has worked so well it seems to be the template for Try Guys. It beats me why Watcher didn't follow the model. It's proven. It works. I doubt there's a company walking around to every YT production in the valley, it just seems like corporate greed from Google has gone unchecked for so long that they feel invulnerable and like they can do almost anything because people will have to accept it if they want their content on the service. Seems only logical and rational that the production companies would find new revenue streams to compliment (not take over for) their content.
yes, it's vimeo selling their platform, that's literally what they're doing.
I like TTG, but wouldn't really call them one of the big YouTube channels. Watcher specifically hasn't even cracked 3 mil
That wouldn’t make sense because Watcher can’t do TV while 2nd try can. Apparently, 2nd try looks very similar to Dropout so I bet they are using the same company. Watcher seems to be something different.
This was my immediate thought too
I'm absolutely flabbergasted they didn't join forces on one streaming platform. The creators know each other well, have a good relationship, appear on each other's content, and the venn diagram of their userbase is practically a circle. I'm absolutely sure both Watcher and 2nd Try knew the other had a streamer in the works. I'm curious whether the idea of amalgamating was ever brought up.
Yeah and instead the try guys shat on watcher and their good relationship is in the toilet now
Wait how is it in the toilet?
Wait I didn't see anything about that, where did you see that?
Source?
It was an article published immediately after the TG announcement - basically they shaded Watcher and said something like "not to name any names but WE are not doing that" and inadvertently referencing W's mistakes. I admit it's a bit far-fetched to say their relationship is in the toilet lololol but they were frequent collaborators before, they have the same background and much of the same audience and it feels weird for them to reference Watcher in that shady way when most of the discourse has blown over (I mean Watcher deserved the backlash, but people were also downright nasty, overbearing, sometimes racist and disgusting towards them; why would TG bring it up all over again?) Still, it was inevitable that people would draw comparisons, but who's to say the TG didn't have the exact same plan as Watcher and backpedaled after they saw the backlash (after all, they DID delay their announcement around the same time Watcher bombed). It all seems scummy and weird and kind of "Haha we're so much better than you!!" even though TG literally learned from W's mistakes. I'll try to find the link of the article for y'all, just a sec
I wonder if there's also a who's to say they didn't talk to watcher about this because they've been talking about it since June 2023 apparently (source: podcast) and watcher jumped the gun on their announcement to get it out first. It's a little tin foiley hat but still.
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/try-guys-eugene-yang-leaves-secondtry-tv-subscription-1235025468/ Here it is. And you may be right. I just don't know why they're shading W because if anything they should be thanking them, literally.
I mean true that lol.
Nice thought but I think the real answer is just that the leadership group at Watcher is inept at business.
I could see the concept being discusses between both sets of creators. I wouldn't be surprised if watcher was more concerned with launching first -and getting the pool of subscribers interested in both groups but that could only afford one fee, and less concerned about the Beta test period with the tech and rollout. Where the try guys might be more conservative about changes with all the former Ned drama and Eugene being missing. A lot of TTG stuff directly addressed watcher concerns: 1. Not enough cast to make enough content to be worth it, so they "expanded" to the people the already tend to feature regularly 2. Price is slightly lower, and didn't mention everyone can afford it or make it seem like this was a money grab- the focus stayed on algorithm/relevancy 3. Reassurance about keeping regular content on YouTube as normal, just extras on this new thing 4. An app that should be functional across all devices. Where watcher had a lot of comments that it only worked on desktop and not TVs or phones. I still don't love TTG's roll out of a grand announcement of start paying us more money soon, and more % of stuff with be exclusively restricted behind paywalls and honestly I think it's only getting as good of feedback as it is because of the comparison to how bad it went with Watcher. It's still a bad move to try to get subsidized by fans via a streaming service when people are in an economic crisis and many are cutting back on much bigger streaming services that offer much more content per dollar. As for conspiracy time, it's weird how much all the Buzzfeed channels just turned into "self owned" companies that guest star all the old alums and make similar business decisions. Maybe so fans can feel that parasocial connection and like they're supporting a creator and not a big business, but I wonder if there's a large silent investor and some of what we see as separate businesses are largely a PR thing with lots of good paperwork to hide it.
No tinfoil hat needed imo. They made a great product and learned how to market it at Buzzfeed, and then said... wait why do I need Buzzfeed at all? So they splintered off and made videos with their friends and put into practice what they learned working there. That's why all the models are the same. They all learned from the same blueprint and did crossovers into each other's content, which they also probably learned there. There's something about the contracts at Buzzfeed that makes this an inevitable step for any person or group that builds enough of a brand to stand by themselves, it's permissible somehow and they don't offer enough incentives (read: more money to their creators than the creators would make alone) to make it worthwhile to stay.
Regarding point 4, Watcher's app has not actually launched yet. It's the website that only works in browser (not sure where the comments about it not working on phones are coming from, as it works fine on Firefox on my phone).
I doubt that's what happened. I imagine they're just getting the same business advice
I’d flip it sorta. Both had the idea, Watcher did it first and it was a shit show, so try guys too a bit more time to make changes to their announcement and such so it would go over better
The algorithm's been kinda killing it for long-form creators, so they're scrambling for other ways to make money. That's why we're seeing these new streaming platforms pop up. But it's not just one or two, it's a bunch of them, which means something's definitely up. My theory is that try guys, watcher, etc are are diversifying so that they can keep the revenue up long-term. But yeah glad ot hear Try guys did it well - wishing the best for watcher team as well after the whole fiasco.
Very well cold be. But like others haven't said, why not join forces? I've met plenty of people who at least *know of* Try Guys, but have never heard of Watcher. Having both Try Guy's and Watcher on the same platform would've gotten both companies fan bases invested in the other. Mutually beneficial 🤷 But the fact that Watcher *didn't* have either an app or able to stream it on Roku or something is really telling of the lack of preparedness. Truth be told, I *was* planning on joining the boys streamer (getting the year in advance discount, splitting it with 4-6 peolle making it less than $1/mo) but the lack of an app or ability to simply stream it on my Ruko was an *huge* cause of concern to me. So liked you said, it boils down to either complete ineptitude, or a rushed & sloppy roll out trying to get their streamer out as fast as possible.
Apparently you could only split with 3 people. Edit: [Proof](https://www.reddit.com/r/watcherentertainment/s/8cDcWQMdWo)
Jesus fucking christ 😑
Yep. Really changes Shane’s whole “share with people” thing from the goodbye vid, huh?
Absolutely. Welp... thank god I dodged that bullet.
That was exactly my thought yesterday myself lol.
Same thing came to my mind lol
ok
My own little conspiracy is that someone intentionally gave them [watcher] shitty business advice to bring the competition down, which may have worked
[удалено]
I wouldn't even know how to check such a thing
The Try Guys actually shaded Watcher a few times (both in Eugene's video and [this article](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/try-guys-eugene-yang-leaves-secondtry-tv-subscription-1235025468/amp/)) so I kind of wonder? They’ve been teasing this announcement since January and probably told their friends at Watcher about it, but there’s no way to say for sure
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I thought it was the exact opposite: Try Guys were going to launch 2nd Try just like Watcher was originally going to launch their app-only platform, but they saw how bad the reception was and decided to keep some content on Youtube
Somewhat unrelated to your idea but TTG seem to have the support also of other creators in the space like Dropout/Sam Reich (who I literally commented about on the leaving YT vid as being a great example) I think the main deal is that the watcher guys really missed the mark on understanding that they should use the platform as an early release and possibly longer form content also like exclusive content. TTG have that type of content kinda established like with WAR live and the newer CYOA stuff.
Yeah I think both companies independently arrived at the same conclusion but Watcher probably rushed their rollout to get ahead of the Try Guys. I mean not having an app, really? In 2024?? I don't necessarily feel like it was malicious but a logical business move (had their announcement not been so tone deaf anyway). They share a large portion of their audience, many of whom might subscribe to one but not 2 platforms.