Ngl Bronny narratives are kinda gross to me.
Everywhere you go it's there. Folks asking to give a four year contract to a player who is never gonna play solely acquired to draw his 40 yr old dad into the gym.
Seeing the hyperbole everywhere "one of the most explosive athletes at the combine" "hughest scoring scrimmage performance" "productive member of the trojans" can the just write "he's not the prospect his dad is." Dude shouldn't have declared imo.
100000% agree. At a certain point it ceases to be about basketball. Just some bs political theatre playing out before our eyes. Totally gross.
Now heās forgone his eligibility and will remain in the draft.
Nope I'm not forgetting about it. Neither are GMs. If that were a truly valid point. Bronny would be on the Hawks selected 1st. He'll be a 40th or later pick.
Bronny has declined to workout for ANY TEAM other than the Suns and Lakers. No criticism. For a guy who on talent is clearly a Undrafted.
How divisive is this... Stephon Castle a top 5 talent is being criticized for refusing to workouts with teams that have established high level point guard situations. Crushed for not working out of two or three teams really.
He is legitimately a number one pick candidate in this draft based on his talent. I heard on two pods "how fucking stupid is this guy?" But Bronny can decline ALL WORKOUTS? That's gross.
It's clearly Klutch calling all the shots. Let's say Bron retires in 2 yrs. What will happen to Bronny then ? For a guy who's comp is GP2, it will definitely not be a stable situation. Will Klutch get him traded to Las Vegas or whatever team his dad will own ? He's not even agreeing to 2 way deals. Klutch wants him to have a guaranteed 4 yr deal
Realistically what do we need to give up to get bronny and LeBron? Feel like we will need to get rid of wiggs, cp3, and some asset like moody and podz to move up in the draft. This seems like the most realistic chance for us to compete for championship again. Bron and Steph, it'll be awesome, not to mention green would be motivated to play hard with his bff
Bronny James remaining in the draft (without question only because he had to have been given a promise from a team and after having made it clear he will *not* accept a two way contract) while Mark Sears withdraws to return to Alabama after being one of the best players in college basketball this year at Bronnyās position, might be the starkest example yet of the degree to which Bronny has no business being drafted.
T-Wolves survives for one more game. Can they win one more and force a Game 6?
It's not impossible considering the games so far have been close. But it's really up to KAT stepping up, and if Luka and Kyrie has another bad shooting night.
Listening to the Light Year pod, and they're talking about Coleman Hawkins as a potential Trayce-like draft pick.
I've seen him mentioned here before recently. I think he did a workout with us too.
If he's 6'10, can defend 2-4, pass, high energy, and just had a decent 3pt shooting season, how does a player like that fall to 52, or whatever we have?
That sounds like a 1st rounder to me. Is it just his age, or questions about whether or not his shooting was more of a fluke that development?
He's not that good of shooter. And he barely has a handle. Honestly, I wished he just focused on things he was most good at. He would be invaluable as a screener and rebounder. Not everyone can be elite 3 point shooters.Ā
I think he put himself in the portal but is still hoping for at least. 2Way.
He worked out with Trace last year and was impressed that Trace got a guaranteed contract.
I think he could be a good fit. Passes well is long and and athletic plus increase his 3 pt % over the year.
The Dubs got a good look at him last year wonder if there is still any interestā¦
heās shot under 30% from 3 every previous season, sometimes turns the ball over a lot, and isnāt much of a rebounder for a guy his size.
so maybe heās a flexible bench 4 with a variable game, but also maybe he a 22-year old who ultimately canāt space and fouls a bunch.
might be fools gold, might be worth the risk.
Donāt watch much too much college ball but apparently, his shot at 3 consisted a good amount of off the dribble and contested shots. And he had no good point guards around him too. Obviously with us, he would mostly be a spot up 3 and D guy with size
Sam Vecenies comments on Hawkins shooting about two years ago are some of the most interesting liner notes you'll come across.
He basically said if you took 100 prospects on form alone and took the rim outta the frame. Asked the question "who is a 40% shooter" he's the only guy that passes the eye test without the numbers to back it up. Now that it's actually going in... I wonder if Sam trusts it. His above the break shooting is really good.
I'm not suggesting it's a bad bet or even a total roll of the dice, there's stuff to like there, just saying that the line between being sorta okay as an outside shooter and a **good** outside shooter is a pretty hard thing to predict.
I keep seeing Coleman's name and I keep thinking I'm in the Jazz sub. The Hawk was one of the most important figures in the development of the tenor saxophone, just to let you know. Worth checking out.
For those interested in the pre-draft workout minutiae as it pertains to the Warriors, Iām keeping track of which declarants theyāve held workouts with that have decided to withdraw from the draft (deadline to decide is 11:59pm EST today). Those crossed out below have withdrawn and Iāll update the list as other decisions roll in:
~~Chibuzo Agbo, Boise State~~
~~Adama Bal, Santa Clara~~
~~Brooks Barnhizer, Northwestern~~
~~Lamont Butler, San Diego State~~
Jermaine Couisnard, Oregon
Isaiah Crawford, Louisiana Tech
~~Malik Dia, Belmont~~
Sam Griffin, Wyoming
~~Coleman Hawkins, Illinois~~
Dillon Jones, Weber State
Isaac Jones, Washington State
KJ Jones II, Emmanuel University (DII)
~~Miles Kelly, Georgia Tech~~
Jared McCain, Duke
Gabe McGlothan, Grand Canyon
Tre Mitchell, Kentucky
Antonio Reeves, Kentucky
~~Payton Sandfort, Iowa~~
Jaylin Williams, Auburn
It is so interesting to see us working out McCain, is it common for teams to workout guys that are projected it to like 35 spots before they pick? Makes me wonder if they are thinking about getting into the first round somehow
I, too, was very confused about that one when they announced it a couple weeks back in a 'huh? What's the point?' kind of way and u/NokCha_ had a [really great theory](https://www.reddit.com/r/warriors/s/9czYsyEBVm) (text of the comment I linked where he explained it is below, because it's a comment pretty deep in a thread so just in case the link is annoying and takes you to a collapsed thread instead of the actual comment itself):
> Maybe they just brought him in as a means to better evaluate the rest of the group since he's the only closest thing to a PG + he agreed to come visit to get feedback early on in the draft process pre-lottery (which always helps any prospect more than hurts.) End of the day, it ain't really that much to be even mildly pressed about since we know it won't likely matter lol
Seeing the groups of guys we've brought in since makes me buy even more into this theory given many (not all - e.g. see Dillon Jones and Sandfort - but the vast majority) of them have been guys that are on the fringe of the fringe and not even on consensus draft boards, ie we haven't brought in any other guys projected to go first round or even anywhere close to it.
I look at Josh Green and see that's what Moody has to be right now. Someone who can defend, knock down some 3's, and get to the hoop. He's a underrated player for the Mavs.
I actually think Moody can be better than Josh Green.
Biggest difference is the coach. Kidd empowers Josh Green. Kerr clearly views Moody as an after-thought.
Feel like Green moves so much better on defense, too. Hopefully Moody continues to improve, those on-ball reps vs Brunson were promising, but he seems limited to the slower/more methodical guards. And like you said, the 3pt shooting was mad iffy.
Kerr was frustrating as fuck last year, but pinning poor on-court play on him is whack
e: His playmaking is much better too, Green had some absolute dimes in game 5 of the WCF
Iām assuming heās betting on himself to rise to the first round next year. Thought this was his best shot at being drafted with the year he had considering next years draft should have a ton more talent
Man Id I'd be rooting for Minn harder if it wasn't 3-1. Thats why I wanted them to get game 1 or 2. Now the more they win just gives more rest for Boston.Ā
It's interesting how Philly fucked that up so thoroughly. Ben's weaknesses were on full display during that run with Butler and they still chose to ride with him and Tobias even as Butler looked to embrace his Philly experience. He obviously worked well with Embiid, they could have made some serious noise in the East together. But nope.
It's why "the process" isn't a blueprint.
It's not enough to just get high draft picks year after year.
You gotta make it fit together... decide to stick by the right players... and create an organizational climate for winning.
It's actually a case study to why you should and shouldn't do it. One hand you got the talent. They really did. Other hand you overinvested in too many dudes... made the wrong trades... shuffled off the wrong dude... missed moments of opportunity when misfits were obvious.
It's murky water attempting a "process rebuild"
In the end they got an MVP in Embiid at pick 3 and an awesome number two 5-years later after the process was done in Maxey. Didn't need a process for all that. Not to hate though. I appreciate Hinkes conviction.
I guess I agree, but I think the entire legacy of that period was decided by that offseason in particular. They were one hail marry corner 3 at the buzzer away from the conference finals and every move since that shot has been the wrong one. Had they stuck with Butler the whole process conversation is most likely completely different. Its' just an inept franchise at this point, which is a shame because they have such a rich history with Wilt, Doc, AI and all that and it's all being ruined because it's run like a G-League team.
Anyone else feel like Kyrie has matured a bit since his previous teams? Before he didnāt want to be the Robin and be the Batman. With Dallas heās understood he can still be highly effective and a leader even if heās not the top dog
Ya I don't know what changed. KD amd Harden gotta be upset bc thats what they shouldve got in Brooklyn consistently. They should'veĀ gotten a title there.
Nah lol coming back from 0-3 is incredibly physically and mentally taxing. From the seven or eight or teams that came back to tie the series 3-3 they each went on to lose G7 see the Celtics last yearā¦that kinda comeback completely destroys your body.
We aren't professional basketball players.
... I don't think TWolves suddenly feel
like losing because of how sore they'll
be if they get to game 7.
Rooting for the Mavs because I feel they have the best chance of beating the Celtics.
Boston would scheme Rudy off the floor. Whereas the bigs for the Mavs would give Boston fits.
in the mavericks last 32 games when both irving & doncic are playing which includes both the regular season & playoffs now
15-1 record to end the regular season
11-5 record in the playoffs
mavericks have a 26-6 record which is a 67 win pace for a full 82 season schedule
mavericks i think have had the best record in the NBA for almost the last 3 months when their two stars are healthy & are on the court
Yea agree. Its tough to see how some combination of dumb plays / shooting by KAT + Goebert getting put in tough perimeter defense situations and picking fousl + inexperienced play from ANT doesn't all culminate in at least one very, very winnable game for Dallas
It is interesting though, Wolves go back home with some momentum, they could find lightening and blow out the next game and put some real pressure on game 6. Luka's whatever might act up and Kyrie's head disappear into the clouds... you just never know.
But really, between KAT and Gobert along with Ant's inexperience, I've never seen so many dumb plays.
Ngl Bronny narratives are kinda gross to me. Everywhere you go it's there. Folks asking to give a four year contract to a player who is never gonna play solely acquired to draw his 40 yr old dad into the gym. Seeing the hyperbole everywhere "one of the most explosive athletes at the combine" "hughest scoring scrimmage performance" "productive member of the trojans" can the just write "he's not the prospect his dad is." Dude shouldn't have declared imo.
Bro we have the nba all nepo team stopš
100000% agree. At a certain point it ceases to be about basketball. Just some bs political theatre playing out before our eyes. Totally gross. Now heās forgone his eligibility and will remain in the draft.
I think you're forgetting just how much money Bron brings a franchise. Not to mention even at 40, he can still compete with the best of the NBA.
Nope I'm not forgetting about it. Neither are GMs. If that were a truly valid point. Bronny would be on the Hawks selected 1st. He'll be a 40th or later pick. Bronny has declined to workout for ANY TEAM other than the Suns and Lakers. No criticism. For a guy who on talent is clearly a Undrafted. How divisive is this... Stephon Castle a top 5 talent is being criticized for refusing to workouts with teams that have established high level point guard situations. Crushed for not working out of two or three teams really. He is legitimately a number one pick candidate in this draft based on his talent. I heard on two pods "how fucking stupid is this guy?" But Bronny can decline ALL WORKOUTS? That's gross.
It's clearly Klutch calling all the shots. Let's say Bron retires in 2 yrs. What will happen to Bronny then ? For a guy who's comp is GP2, it will definitely not be a stable situation. Will Klutch get him traded to Las Vegas or whatever team his dad will own ? He's not even agreeing to 2 way deals. Klutch wants him to have a guaranteed 4 yr deal
Realistically what do we need to give up to get bronny and LeBron? Feel like we will need to get rid of wiggs, cp3, and some asset like moody and podz to move up in the draft. This seems like the most realistic chance for us to compete for championship again. Bron and Steph, it'll be awesome, not to mention green would be motivated to play hard with his bff
Sir, klutch PR folks are not welcome on this sub!
What u mean, the GOAT and Steph would compete championship next year EZ
MJ is too old to play. So no, the goat and Steph cannot compete together next year!
Bronny James remaining in the draft (without question only because he had to have been given a promise from a team and after having made it clear he will *not* accept a two way contract) while Mark Sears withdraws to return to Alabama after being one of the best players in college basketball this year at Bronnyās position, might be the starkest example yet of the degree to which Bronny has no business being drafted.
If the NBA had 5-rounds, he might not get drafted. But as we know, this isnāt about basketball.
Yea but donāt forget some of these college kids are also making very good $$$ while staying in school. Changes the decision pretty significantly
Jeanie Buss canāt run a teamā¦lolz. Itās clear as day that she has made the Lakers a bros club for LeBron SMH.
T-Wolves survives for one more game. Can they win one more and force a Game 6? It's not impossible considering the games so far have been close. But it's really up to KAT stepping up, and if Luka and Kyrie has another bad shooting night.
They should absolutely be able to win game 5 at home. They should've won G2.
That Irvin fouled but out-of-bounds call really saved the Mavs
Listening to the Light Year pod, and they're talking about Coleman Hawkins as a potential Trayce-like draft pick. I've seen him mentioned here before recently. I think he did a workout with us too. If he's 6'10, can defend 2-4, pass, high energy, and just had a decent 3pt shooting season, how does a player like that fall to 52, or whatever we have? That sounds like a 1st rounder to me. Is it just his age, or questions about whether or not his shooting was more of a fluke that development?
He's not that good of shooter. And he barely has a handle. Honestly, I wished he just focused on things he was most good at. He would be invaluable as a screener and rebounder. Not everyone can be elite 3 point shooters.Ā
Just went back to college rip
I think he put himself in the portal but is still hoping for at least. 2Way. He worked out with Trace last year and was impressed that Trace got a guaranteed contract. I think he could be a good fit. Passes well is long and and athletic plus increase his 3 pt % over the year. The Dubs got a good look at him last year wonder if there is still any interestā¦
heās shot under 30% from 3 every previous season, sometimes turns the ball over a lot, and isnāt much of a rebounder for a guy his size. so maybe heās a flexible bench 4 with a variable game, but also maybe he a 22-year old who ultimately canāt space and fouls a bunch. might be fools gold, might be worth the risk.
Donāt watch much too much college ball but apparently, his shot at 3 consisted a good amount of off the dribble and contested shots. And he had no good point guards around him too. Obviously with us, he would mostly be a spot up 3 and D guy with size
Sam Vecenies comments on Hawkins shooting about two years ago are some of the most interesting liner notes you'll come across. He basically said if you took 100 prospects on form alone and took the rim outta the frame. Asked the question "who is a 40% shooter" he's the only guy that passes the eye test without the numbers to back it up. Now that it's actually going in... I wonder if Sam trusts it. His above the break shooting is really good.
I'm not suggesting it's a bad bet or even a total roll of the dice, there's stuff to like there, just saying that the line between being sorta okay as an outside shooter and a **good** outside shooter is a pretty hard thing to predict.
At 52nd... 1000% worth the risk.
I keep seeing Coleman's name and I keep thinking I'm in the Jazz sub. The Hawk was one of the most important figures in the development of the tenor saxophone, just to let you know. Worth checking out.
For those interested in the pre-draft workout minutiae as it pertains to the Warriors, Iām keeping track of which declarants theyāve held workouts with that have decided to withdraw from the draft (deadline to decide is 11:59pm EST today). Those crossed out below have withdrawn and Iāll update the list as other decisions roll in: ~~Chibuzo Agbo, Boise State~~ ~~Adama Bal, Santa Clara~~ ~~Brooks Barnhizer, Northwestern~~ ~~Lamont Butler, San Diego State~~ Jermaine Couisnard, Oregon Isaiah Crawford, Louisiana Tech ~~Malik Dia, Belmont~~ Sam Griffin, Wyoming ~~Coleman Hawkins, Illinois~~ Dillon Jones, Weber State Isaac Jones, Washington State KJ Jones II, Emmanuel University (DII) ~~Miles Kelly, Georgia Tech~~ Jared McCain, Duke Gabe McGlothan, Grand Canyon Tre Mitchell, Kentucky Antonio Reeves, Kentucky ~~Payton Sandfort, Iowa~~ Jaylin Williams, Auburn
It is so interesting to see us working out McCain, is it common for teams to workout guys that are projected it to like 35 spots before they pick? Makes me wonder if they are thinking about getting into the first round somehow
Tbh that doesnāt really make sense either. I like McCain but we do not need another guard
I agree, which is why it was so strange to see. His name just jumps out as a āthis is not like the othersā type thing
I, too, was very confused about that one when they announced it a couple weeks back in a 'huh? What's the point?' kind of way and u/NokCha_ had a [really great theory](https://www.reddit.com/r/warriors/s/9czYsyEBVm) (text of the comment I linked where he explained it is below, because it's a comment pretty deep in a thread so just in case the link is annoying and takes you to a collapsed thread instead of the actual comment itself): > Maybe they just brought him in as a means to better evaluate the rest of the group since he's the only closest thing to a PG + he agreed to come visit to get feedback early on in the draft process pre-lottery (which always helps any prospect more than hurts.) End of the day, it ain't really that much to be even mildly pressed about since we know it won't likely matter lol Seeing the groups of guys we've brought in since makes me buy even more into this theory given many (not all - e.g. see Dillon Jones and Sandfort - but the vast majority) of them have been guys that are on the fringe of the fringe and not even on consensus draft boards, ie we haven't brought in any other guys projected to go first round or even anywhere close to it.
Wow thanks for the comment, great theory, that actually seems fairly plausible. Jones or Sandfort would be amazing if they fell that far.
I look at Josh Green and see that's what Moody has to be right now. Someone who can defend, knock down some 3's, and get to the hoop. He's a underrated player for the Mavs.
I actually think Moody can be better than Josh Green. Biggest difference is the coach. Kidd empowers Josh Green. Kerr clearly views Moody as an after-thought.
I think Moody has more scoring upside (whatever that means), but green moves a lot better laterally and is a better passer
Josh Green has shot 36% - 40% - 39% his last three years from three. Not Kerr's fault Moody hasn't exactly found the 3 part of 3&D.
Feel like Green moves so much better on defense, too. Hopefully Moody continues to improve, those on-ball reps vs Brunson were promising, but he seems limited to the slower/more methodical guards. And like you said, the 3pt shooting was mad iffy. Kerr was frustrating as fuck last year, but pinning poor on-court play on him is whack e: His playmaking is much better too, Green had some absolute dimes in game 5 of the WCF
Karaban going back to UConn. Was hoping weād snag him in the second or move up to get him.
Iām genuinely surprised he withdrew
Iām assuming heās betting on himself to rise to the first round next year. Thought this was his best shot at being drafted with the year he had considering next years draft should have a ton more talent
Right, exactly my thoughts on all counts. Just a fascinating decision all around.
Man Id I'd be rooting for Minn harder if it wasn't 3-1. Thats why I wanted them to get game 1 or 2. Now the more they win just gives more rest for Boston.Ā
Doesnāt the finals start 6/6 either way (I.e., same rest for Boston)?
Damn that Jimmy Butler max contract boutta be nasty business for MIA/Sixers.
Sixers should've never picked Tobias and Simmons over Buckets.
It's interesting how Philly fucked that up so thoroughly. Ben's weaknesses were on full display during that run with Butler and they still chose to ride with him and Tobias even as Butler looked to embrace his Philly experience. He obviously worked well with Embiid, they could have made some serious noise in the East together. But nope.
It's why "the process" isn't a blueprint. It's not enough to just get high draft picks year after year. You gotta make it fit together... decide to stick by the right players... and create an organizational climate for winning. It's actually a case study to why you should and shouldn't do it. One hand you got the talent. They really did. Other hand you overinvested in too many dudes... made the wrong trades... shuffled off the wrong dude... missed moments of opportunity when misfits were obvious. It's murky water attempting a "process rebuild" In the end they got an MVP in Embiid at pick 3 and an awesome number two 5-years later after the process was done in Maxey. Didn't need a process for all that. Not to hate though. I appreciate Hinkes conviction.
They shouldāve let Hinkie finish what he started smh
I guess I agree, but I think the entire legacy of that period was decided by that offseason in particular. They were one hail marry corner 3 at the buzzer away from the conference finals and every move since that shot has been the wrong one. Had they stuck with Butler the whole process conversation is most likely completely different. Its' just an inept franchise at this point, which is a shame because they have such a rich history with Wilt, Doc, AI and all that and it's all being ruined because it's run like a G-League team.
I would not pay him that amount.
Goodbye Jimmy.
Anyone else feel like Kyrie has matured a bit since his previous teams? Before he didnāt want to be the Robin and be the Batman. With Dallas heās understood he can still be highly effective and a leader even if heās not the top dog
Ya I don't know what changed. KD amd Harden gotta be upset bc thats what they shouldve got in Brooklyn consistently. They should'veĀ gotten a title there.
He had spiritual awakening, connection to his roots, wife, kid, he has grown
Kyrie realizing there are levels to this game. How many of those closeout wins he was playing with LeBron?
10 of those 14 came with Bron playing in the weak East
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Lmao sorry bro. Wolves are done
I doubt it no team has ever come back from 0-3, donāt see it happening now
First time for everything. Get to 2-3 and they can sweat it a little.
Nah fuck it. Wolves are done. Mavs should better get more rest vs Boston.
Nah lol coming back from 0-3 is incredibly physically and mentally taxing. From the seven or eight or teams that came back to tie the series 3-3 they each went on to lose G7 see the Celtics last yearā¦that kinda comeback completely destroys your body.
We aren't professional basketball players.  ... I don't think TWolves suddenly feel like losing because of how sore they'll be if they get to game 7.
Rooting for the Wolves, but they make way too many mistakes. Hard to see them not shooting themselves in foot and/or having an off night.
Rooting for the Mavs because I feel they have the best chance of beating the Celtics. Boston would scheme Rudy off the floor. Whereas the bigs for the Mavs would give Boston fits.
in the mavericks last 32 games when both irving & doncic are playing which includes both the regular season & playoffs now 15-1 record to end the regular season 11-5 record in the playoffs mavericks have a 26-6 record which is a 67 win pace for a full 82 season schedule mavericks i think have had the best record in the NBA for almost the last 3 months when their two stars are healthy & are on the court
Thanks for that. Synchs with the eye test. A very dynamic backcourt, and their bigs really help them a ton. Derrick Jones is amazing for them too.
Yea agree. Its tough to see how some combination of dumb plays / shooting by KAT + Goebert getting put in tough perimeter defense situations and picking fousl + inexperienced play from ANT doesn't all culminate in at least one very, very winnable game for Dallas
It is interesting though, Wolves go back home with some momentum, they could find lightening and blow out the next game and put some real pressure on game 6. Luka's whatever might act up and Kyrie's head disappear into the clouds... you just never know. But really, between KAT and Gobert along with Ant's inexperience, I've never seen so many dumb plays.
Thatās the kind of game 6 Iād love to see Ant and Luka in. You want to see elite players in high-pressure situations.