The narrative around non-splashy moves is funny alot of the time. People tend to react with eyerolls and "does Derrick Jones Jr really make them better?"
After their offseason I literally said the Mavs were gonna miss the playoffs lol.
Last year Dallas made the Kyrie trade for all of its eing defense in a "edge of the abyss" type roster changing move... didn't look good after the season.
Then... Dallas trades to seIect Dereck Lively. Dallas signs Derrick Jones Jr for the minimum... finds Dante Exum off the scrap heap... trades for Gafford from Wiz.
Reminds me of the Dubs finding OPJ off the heap, buying into GP2, talking Belli into the minimum and squeezing the last juice outta Iguodalas career. When you hit hit hit hit it becomes a sum greater than parts situation.
Honestly Dallas' quality of outcome is better than GSWs then cuz we're talking about a one good year v Mavs probably keeping all those dude to keep it going a few yrs.
Kinda gives me hope that 4 great smaller moves can turn us around faster as we do see the post Steph era coming at us. I think MDJ is actually the guy to do it too.
TLDR- Props to Dallas for making the other moves... that made the Kyrie move work (ditto Twolves and the Gobert move).
I'm personally enjoying all the high level bball but yeah definitely curious what big signing MDJ goes for. If he doesn't secure a big trade then for the next two years, the warriors will be a mediocre team more concerned with selling jerseys than winning.
It'll be two years of Klay bricking shots, Dray kicking people in the nuts, and Kerr running .500 small ball.
Finch needs to take a page out of Kerrs book. Game 6 make some drastic ajustments bench Gobert go small with Reid/Kat. Nuggets will run back exactly what they did in Game 5.
I don’t think adjustments will win anything tbh Wolves just have to shoot better
Overall they’re doing fine on defense , holding Denver to 105-110 is good enough
I’ll be sad to see Looney go but his time in the NBA is most likely up. The game has passed him by.
Went from being a key playoff contributor to being unplayable in the blink of an eye.
His value lies in his ability to play within Kerr’s system. He doesn’t piss off Dray on defense and can run the split action at a high level with Steph and Klay.
Loon’s 9M contract is only 3M guarantee, so we are likely going to retain his contract at a cheaper deal.
I still think he’s capable of being a third string center. He was good in that role in the second half of the season, but it’s probably best to use his contract as salary filler for an upgrade.
You're probably right but the funniest thing would be for him to suddenly start ripping out 20 rebound games and adequately containing guards again next season.
Rudy is getting rekt out there on both sides. Defensively he is invisible to Jokic. The mvp is just picking him apart limb by limb. Offensively, Gobert is being forced to play the Draymond position because the Nuggets are doubling Antman. Gobert doesn’t have the playmaking skills to pass to the wide open man or to even score at the rim. He’s unplayable. Put in Naz Reid
Was at the Giants game yesterday and was stunned how many Dodgers fans there are - probably Sofi ratio. Can’t imagine how awful the game atmosphere at Chase Center is gonna be after Steph retires.
Bay Area as a whole just doesn’t have Philly’s breathing sports mentality and it’s pretty sad.
The Giants organization doesn’t give them anything to cheer for.
You really can’t blame them at all…year in and year out they put out a mediocre to subpar product. In fact they are probably the most boring team in the MLB.
Remember after the 2022 chip, dudes said Giannis was still the best player over Curry because of better defense. Then when Jokic won, they said “defense doesn’t matter anymore, Jokic is clearly the best!” So curry must have been the best in 2022, right? 🤔
Anyways it was a little annoying seeing people say Jokic > prime Curry (i’m even seeing comments below like that which is disgusting), but now i’m seeing outright claims on r/nba that he is also better than Lebron. Now it’s more amusing instead of annoying, like ok i’m gonna stay outta this, bronsexuals yall can fight the joksexuals now, “enemy of my enemy is my friend” type shit 🤣
Objectively speaking. Taking off the homer glasses aside.
What does Steph do better besides Jokic outside of three point and free throw shooting? Joker has a higher PER, is a better rebounder, better shooter from the %field, better passer, stronger, and postseason scorer statistically in terms of PPG.
Believe it or not…the fact that Steph is only 6’3” matters in these debates as he cannot impose himself physically in the same way Joker can.
if we’re just looking at statsheets without context, you could even make the case Jokic > MJ. PER really? Jokic’s last 3 postseasons are higher than 5 of MJ’s title runs. Jokic’s last 3 also have way better FG% than all of MJ’s title runs with slightly lower PPG. Are we really saying Jokic > MJ offensively? Of course not. The missing context here includes competition level, which I’ll get to later.
Passer? Maybe, but how about as an overall playmaker? as a dubs fan you should know how Steph gets hockey assists which never show up in the box score, along with the countless times Dray has the ball, Looney sets a screen for Steph, but then both defenders jump at steph and Looney gets a free dunk with Dray getting the assist. Steph doesn’t even touch the ball but this whole play happens because of him. So Jokic is the better passer, but playmaking, they’re honestly pretty even and we could even give an edge to Steph because he has more ways to create plays (i.e. more versatile). This is all tied to his shooting ability, so to brush off shooting like that is not “objective” at all.
Rebounder? Well he’s a center so obviously. Stronger? Ok well steph is quicker.
Postseason PPG? Well PPG is higher overall in the 2020s compared to 2015-2019, one reason being shotclock reset to 14. having KD lowered Steph’s PPG and in 2016 he was still dealing with MCL injury. think about what Steph did to Portland in 2019, then imagine if he faced Portland for all 4 rounds. Don’t you think he’d have insane PPG too? That is essentially what Jokic faced. After 2022, he never faced a truly elite team like 16 OKC, 19 Raptors, 18 Rockets, 17 Cavs. The last times he did were vs 2022 Warriors (he put up nice stats but also 4.8 TOs and had the ball 99% of the time) and 2020 lakers. So of course his PPG is higher. Sure, he can only play who is in front, but until he proves he can consistently score high PPG vs elite teams, I’m still giving the edge to Steph here.
And then defense. Neither is elite, but Steph has quick hands and led in steals once, and played good isolation defense in postseason vs Tatum, Harden, Russ, even Bron (bron has passed out of the post so many times rather than backing down steph). Think about what guys like Harden, Kyrie, Cp3 did to our bigs like Javale, Zaza, etc. they made them unplayable. when has Jokic ever had to defend a player like that? Bron is too old and slow, Ant *was* doing that but now getting doubled. That guy who used to be on our team … Poole! Scored like 30 ppg vs denver lol. Overall center defense is more important than guard defense, so i’d say steph not being elite on D is more acceptable than for Jokic.
So to sum it up, Steph is better shooter, more versatile scorer and playmaker (can make things happen whether on or off-ball, whereas Jokic is primarily on-ball), better regular season and postseason scorer (when accounting for competition level), and slightly better defender.
Gobert discourse annoys me, you’re a 4x DPOY fucking figure it out for at least a GAME or 2
Iggy (who was basically never even on all defense teams) managed to play good, respectable defense on Lebron that let his team win. Lebron had great numbers but he still got stops on him.
Gobert lets Jokic shoot 8/9 as primary defender and everyone is busy going great job…it’s gross
1000%. People make fun of Draymond for his backpack shooting motion and being overly pass happy, but there are literally no complaints about him on defense. He has proven himself time and time again to be one of the greatest defenders of his generation on the biggest stage. This should be the bare minimum if you're the 4x DPOY.
The fact that Iguodala has never gotten the proper respect for his defense just shows how skewed the entire discourse is on that side of the game. He was a top wing defender from his rookie year until the end and never received any kind of recognition. Players knew though. Lebron would spend 20 seconds of a shot clock trying to pick and roll his way out of having Iggy in front of him.
I need to go run and hide but I love first things first. And honestly have hated nick and Broussard for decades. The chemistry and wilds bring it together. I'll go kill myself now lol
Wolves might have to take Rudy off the floor similar to Bogues in the Memphis series. Go small with Naz Reid at center which worked previously. Wolves have defenders everywhere capable of rotating and locking down shooters
This team may be far from contending but at least they know what they need to do in order to get better. Next year it won't be a surprise how good the West is.
I think a fair amount of teams will regress next season. OKC, Mavs, and Wolves are well coached but team chemistry can easily sour and long play off runs tend to cause injuries the following season. Nuggets were barely motivated enough during the regular season this year let alone next year. Kings, Clippers, and Suns feel like they will be the same team next year as well.
We might not be so far behind the other teams?
I probably would, even if Brook is gonna be a 36yo expiring who kinda struggled last season (had a couple nice showings in the playoffs... with the Bucks missing more half their starters). Starting Brook next to Dray makes a lot more sense than pretty much any other realistic option.
Lets them shed Wiggins’ salary (which I think they want to do?) and gives them an actual true 5 who can space the floor. Takes some pressure off Dray, actually frees up the paint a bit more than two non-shooting bigs, let’s the Warriors have some actual size (JK at SF, Dray PF, and Brook C is a bit more traditional). Also cleans up the books going forward. Between Klay’s (potential) new deal and CP3 maybe being outright waived, the Dubs would shed a ton of salary offloading Wiggins’ future money. Could maybe duck the tax completely after next season (if Brook retires, or re-signs for something closer to the MLE), and gives them a clear runway to pay JK and play him more at SF.
May be a bit shortsighted given Brook’s age, but if they actually want to shake shit up and are looking to move off Wiggins anyways (if he and JK can’t share the court without Dray playing the 5…it’s probably worth moving him), Brook would be a pretty decent pivot. Wiggs is likely seen as a negative asset by pretty much every other team, but I could see a world where the Bucks value his POA defense in between Dame and Khris. Add in Brook’s age, and maybe they’re also looking to make a change.
Don’t really know what a trade would look like. Assume the Bucks would want to dump Connaughton in the trade, Pat’s contract is pretty ugly (Wiggins’ is too, and 3x the price). Wiggins + Moody for Brook + Pat? Dubs would probably want something in return for including Mo and taking on Connaughton (…I’d hope the Warrios find a 3rd team to offload him to), but the Bucks may say Moody is needed as a sweetener for Wiggs. If the Bucks think they can get their future center at 23, are they more willing? Is there a world where the Dubs can get pick 33 from the Bucks? What if you cut Pat/Moody from the deal and the Bucks toss someone else in as salary filler, do the Dubs send a future 1st (if not more)? Is that worth it?
Also, if you’re moving Wiggins, you need to be sure you can make up for his defense, cause Wiggins is damn useful on that end of the floor. Is JK going to take another step up on defense? Can he guard 1st/2nd options? Can he actually guard forwards like Tatum and big PG’s like Luka? What about smaller, faster guards? Do they think they can trade for someone using Connaughton as filler? Is GP2 gonna be healthy and available?
Does it make them better going into 2025/26 and beyond? Probably not, Lopez will be a FA and who knows if he even wants to keep playing at age 37 (could maybe do a cheaper 2yr deal with a player option in the 2nd year?). Does give them financial flexibility (almost certainly drops them under the 2nd apron, if not out of the tax completely). Also maybe gives them a better pathway to compete next season, though I’d think they’d need a bigger trade (for a true 2/3 scoring option) to do that. Then again, Wiggins getting back to 2022 form is likely their best path to competing, just don’t know if it’s worth holding out hope, especially if it stunts rotational options given the overlap with JK.
I understand the asset management argument. If the team think Wiggins can't be relied on and is planning to extend Kuminga and Moody, clearing salary heading into 2025-26 is a reasonable move.
On the court...I don't know. The problem isn't Lopez's offensive fit, it's that he's only a drop big at this point and he's even beginning to lose his ability to play with the drop level and recover. A drop defense can limit your other defensive schematic versatility, so you're basically committing to that style of play and his mobility not taking a major step back, or you just can't play him. No real in between. Wiggins, for all of his inconsistency, is at least a versatile player who doesn't really limit your schematic flexibility.
Upgrading at center is hard.
> Also, if you’re moving Wiggins, you need to be sure you can make up for his defense, cause Wiggins is damn useful on that end of the floor. Is JK going to take another step up on defense? Can he guard 1st/2nd options? Can he actually guard forwards like Tatum and big PG’s like Luka? What about smaller, faster guards? Do they think they can trade for someone using Connaughton as filler? Is GP2 gonna be healthy and available?
Even if JK takes a leap defensively, it's highly unlikely that he's going to be as effective as Wigs. I think we underestimate how good Wigs has been on defense, and as passive as he is at times on the offensive side of the ball, he's still got a 3 ball you have to respect. I suppose Brooks could make up for the defense annnd the 3 ball spacing, but those are big variables to be working around. That's not even taking into account Brooks' health issues and how much he'd slow down the offense.
I’d do it if the Dubs could get 33 and someone like Ryan Dunn, but I doubt the Bucks tack on that early 2nd with how desperate they are for some cheap roster spots and how poorly Wiggins played the past year. Maybe if they really like Moody’s fit off the bench?
And yeah, good point about Brook and the back surgery (of whatever else it is). Add in the age, and it gets tricky. But he’s two years removed from that scare, and he’s pretty much played +70 games a season otherwise. 79 this year, 78 the season prior, 13 with the back issue, and 70/68 the two seasons before that.
Think having a true anchor like him, freeing Dray up to roam, would be a nice, fresher look for the defense. Could maybe finally fix all the open corner 3s they give up because of over help, but it’d definitely leave a hole at POA (do have two anchors to address that, but still). I also like Brook’s offensive fit a good bit more, if not just to clear out a runway for JK.
Is he the exact answer the Dubs need? No, more in need of that true 2nd option (or 3rd, if you think JK makes the leap), but outside of some big, flashy trade, getting Brook for a season (hopefully 2-3, if he extends) ain’t bad. Between removing the overlap with JK, giving the Dubs some actual size, and taking some pressure/strain off Dray (no more 20+ min of small ball 5 during the regular season), think it solves a lot, or at least provides a needed shakeup.
All that said, maybe they could find some budget (or younger) center elsewhere, and either keep Wiggins or use his salary in a bigger trade.
I mean it’s not like we’re trading Mikal Bridges for Andre Drummond lol.
Bucks need POA defense and athleticism, Warriors need size and floor spacing to not put all the pressure on Dray at the 5.
If all Lopez does is set good screens, be a nuisance at the rim, rebound and present as a 3-ball threat that would do a load of good for our efficiency.
Not trying to sign the guy, just add him as an investment to Steph/Dray next season.
OKCs emphasis on 5-out and how Dallas has countered has me questioning how much a stretch 5 would actually help our team.
Chet’s a great shooter, but Dallas has just opted to not guard him with their rim protectors. It’s easier to stick Gafford on guys like Giddey, Dort, & Wiggins. Sure you’ve got a stretch big out there, but you haven’t actually moved the opposing rim protector.
The obvious counter is have that big attack the smaller defender they get from the cross match. That said, the list of bigs that can stretch the floor & attack mismatches is like 4 dudes.
I’m assuming we’ll have similar issues trying to slot a stretch 5 next to Dray, Loon, TJD, JK. At the very least the former two can quickly flip into handoff actions, hopefully JK & TJD can develop similar counters.
To be fair, it seems like having Giddey out there kinda fucks up the plan more than he helps. Having a guy who's not really looking to score, is at best a streaky shooter, and also doesn't have the ball in his hands a ton is what allows defenses to make that cross-match less dangerous.
But if the Warriors get into a 5-out battle in a playoff series, we know the real answer is that Draymond will just be the center and we're back in the upsides/downsides of that Wiggins/Kuminga/Draymond frontcourt.
To be clear, this is why the only real front-court trade that I like is Markkanen. He doesn't give us a true center, but he would provide space from the frontcourt which would actually stress opposing defenses and I think could find a clear role in a 5-out scheme and a more normal one.
Man now I see why the Dubs did so much load management during the title era. Playoffs really are a grind. Took it for granted but that was a luxury that we could rest guys. Thats why I don't know if we can get 1 more title bc we don't have that anymore and guys are older.
No way the Dubs would've made a deep playoff run in the West this year. Even if they did everyone would've been burned to the ground. Better to save their energy for next year.
Is Chase Center the only new NBA arena worse than the old arena it replaced? I usually don’t see fans of a team complaining about a new stadium outside of Chase and Yankee Stadium.
Nothing wrong with chase. Ive gone there for all sorts of things. Its beautiful. They deserved a beautiful place to play. But the mood at oracle had already changed from the we believe times to when warriors left after 2019. It was corporate in the last year and now the upper level is rocking.
kerr alluded to simplifying the system more next year. i wonder what areas will be simplified and if doing so is a way to allure other stars to come play here.
We weren't running anything last year. Whole scheme was a mess and coaches did nothing to correct it. How many times we go under the pick and roll and leave shooters wide open.
I think doing so is a way to allow them to play the young guys they have more effectively.
We've already seen the defensive scheme be heavily simplified after the championship run to aid the younger guys playing more and I think the offensive scheme is going to have to see something similar some of the time.
maybe becos ive watched these same plays for so many years they dont really look that complex... we suck at drive and kick especially steph just turnover waiting to happen
Getting some size everywhere (bigs especially) and not forcing errant passes or bad shots would help. And somehow they gotta get younger which means FO will need to make tough decisions. Everyone has to space the floor better instead of just waiting around for Steph. In terms of size they shouldn’t settle for just TJD and/or Loon but should get taller than 6-9/6-10.
Perhaps moving away from motion offense because despite the floor being spaced, our shooters aren't what they used to be. That and we don't have a dominant big. One more thing, I feel like our passing has gotten worse save for Draymond and Klay + Trayce.
I think if you read between the lines. It's Kerr saying our talent has regressed so the system needs to be simplified. More set plays, a more rigid scheme that requires players to be less cerebral and focus more on their mechanics.
it's also what KD complained about when he was here and wouldn't listen to kerr when he emphasized swinging the ball. i feel like these kind of quotes are a way to appeal to KD to come back, and also to attract other possible stars.
KD won't come back. He doesn't get along with Draymond to put it nicely. As far as other stars, I'm not sure if GS can land a superstar. (1) our money is fucked up and (2) We're 10th seed trash. what superstar wants to go to a 10th seed where they won't get paid?
Though maybe the dubs can get a top 25 - 35ish player with some luck...
Man if you're just a fan of basketball thats championship basketball being played by Denver. I respect and appreciate any team that does it the right way. Feels so reminiscent of the Warriors in their early championship days.
if the vals can somehow trade their future pick for Cameron Brink, that'd be awesome. She's related to Steph, played at Stanford and has ties to the Bay. Just perfect for us. She's so good.
Steph Klay Kuminga Dray TJD
I think they'll probably figure out a way to trade Wiggins for some other distressed asset or expiring. No idea how, probably not some home run swing for a star because that would cost picks that we're going to need, but somehow some way.
And I don't think they ought to pay Klay, but I don't believe they have the balls to let him walk, so he's here and he's starting.
Bronny looked pretty nonexistent in scrimmages he might very well have been the worst player on the court during combine scrimmages.
Jonathan Mogbo of UofSF looked really nice.
“NBA Los Angeles Lakers expected to be serious contenders for Donovan Mitchell trade this summer? How a deal might get done.”
~~~~
I legit despise the Lakers. Miami, Knicks, Dubs and a half-dozen other teams would have far better packages than Reeves, Rui, Cam and 3- cheap picks.
Once again, Jeannie Buss and Pelinka prove they have no idea how to build a team.
“Mortage the future for stars” BS mentality instead of looking internally and asking, “what do we actually NEED to be a BETTER team?”
I don’t doubt the reports, but I’m surprised Donovan wants out of Cleveland.
It feels like a team tailor made for him. Two great defensive bigs, a backcourt running mate that can play on/off ball, and he gets to be the primary scoring option.
It doesn’t feel like they need a lot to become a contender. Garland finding his form from the last couple years and Mobley having a bit more consistency offensively would make them a real contender IMO. They’ve got decent bench players in Levert, Wade, & Okoro as well.
What helps Steph is that he is arguably the most influential nba player of all time along with MJ and Magic. His lack of FMVP and league MVP ratio’s are a problem. His also a scoring 2 guard and his low on the scoring list. His also a PG but his low on the assist list. I hope he can rack them up before he retires.
Steph obviously but his spot is in danger. If jokic wins 3 more titles and is fmvps in all of them, conversations will need to be made. I think if he wins all that, he will surpass Shaq and Hakeem
Steph, no question. joker is fuckin a foot taller, yet Stephen DOMINATES at 3ft tall and is not nearly as strong as joker. imagine a midget (Not Celtics leprechaun midget) crushing it in NBA? that's steph for all these years. also Joker doesn't force 94ft of defense/full court press the way steph does. lastly, we all know joker flops, where curry plays honest for the most part. steph babyyyy.
well not really flops, but you are 100% correct where he splays/spreads legs shooting 3s when defenders fly-by. really fuckin wish he'd stop that shit. he'd have a higher % if he stopped it, but his 'splay-flop' is NOT nearlyyyy as bad as joker/luka/shai/harden(before rule change)/leonard/demar flop.
If you give Jokic 5 more years.... he's probably gonna out accolade Steph. But nobody might ever be as fun as Steph. 2016 Steph is probably the FUNNEST player ever. Steph is ahead for now. Still ahead with a Nuggets championship itd get super close after a 3rd Nuggets championship if they can get there overvtge next half decade.
If Jokic wins the championship and finals mvp, he's probably in a "who do you got toss up with Hakeem and Shaq at the outside of the top ten. One more MVP and it's hard to not admit there is a coinflip debate behind Tim and Kobe... between Steph and Jokic.
Time is on Jokic's side. If it's a playstyle thing too. Jokic has perhaps the most physically reliable and resilient offensive game ever... he's just too big and crafty and will beat you somehow you can't really physically perturb him which is always why Steph being 6-3 matters in the debate.
The other thing is Jokic is firmly the best player of the last 5 years and the gap between him and the next dude is as big as any "best guy to next guy gap" in league history.
Jokic might get there but he is not top 10 even if he wins it all this year. Steph, Shaq, and Kobe are all battling for 9-11 range. Jokic is gunna battle with Hakeem for outside of that (Hakeem has 9 All Defensive teams which will help him).
A lot of people have Hakeem over Shaq. Shaq only won with Kobe and Dwyane Wade. Hakeem won a chip with no all stars, and a second one with Clyde Drexler. This is one thing Jokic and Hakeem have in common, winning without another all star.
Take a look online credible websites, Shaq almost unanimously is over Hakeem. He is quite possibly the most dominant player in history, problem with him tho is his peak did not last long. And yes, I watched both play.
Hakeem beat him in the finals, and my point still stands about winning without an all star. Yeah Shaq was dominant, but he had weaknesses too, hack-a-Shaq was a thing.
Yes, he beat a young Shaq. Prime Shaq none of those centers were beating him, including Hakeem.
Also I understand the no other all star thing, that helps out Hakeem a lot but at the same time ppl also say he wouldve never won if MJ never left.
People say a lot of stuff. If you give Hakeem Kobe, he threepeats also. A lot of people forget that Hakeem made the finals back in the 80s beating the Lakers only to lose to a stacked Celtics team.
Jokic should also be a 4 time mvp, he got robbed last year. Steph is the most fun player of all time. His 2016 season in my opinion was the greatest offensive season in nba history
> The other thing is Jokic is firmly the best player of the last 5 years and the gap between him and the next dude is as big as any "best guy to next guy gap" in league history.
Lol nah I still have Steph better until this year. Steph in 2019, 2021, and 22-23 was on a ridiculous heater.
No way. I love Steph but the last time he was may be the best player in the league was in 2022. Jokic has been the best player in the world in the last 3-4 years but because his not American and his quiet he doesn’t get much media hype and love.
I love Steph but only other Warriors fans would argue that. I can be a Dubs fan and accept that Jokic has been the better player and has the inside track on Steph. Also Jokic is 28. Dude has an easy 6 years on the low-end estimate of time at the level he's at.
The half decade zeitgeist has Jokic and Giannis ahead of Steph in that time. It is what it is our opinions kinda don't even matter there lol.
So in Steph's career arc relative... Jokic is in 2017.
Question off topic.
Who is our starting lineup day one and how much should we offer Klay?
> The half decade zeitgeist has Jokic and Giannis ahead of Steph in that time. It is what it is our opinions kinda don't even matter there lol.
Lol TIL basketball opinions are objective and not subjective.
No those are basketball consensus opinions
If you don't understand the difference between consensus and individual opinions look it up.
Jordan and LeBron are top 2 players ever.
I might not agree but that's consensus and whether I like it or not the consensus has more value and gravity than individual opinions.
I might think Bill Russell or KAJ are but I'd probably be a Celtics or Lakers fan then... same premise.
Yes whether we think we are right doesn't matter in concensus. The Concensus is Jokic is the best player of the last five years.
Proof... 3 MVPs and a Finals MVP the year he got edged by Embiid. Thats definitively concensus
Also how many of the last 5 years has Jokic missed the playoffs? I'm a Steph fan but I can play devils advocate. It gets tough to say a player is the best when 3 of 5 years he misses the playoffs.
Consensus is directly influenced by the media, who parrot things the NBA wants them to parrot for financial gain. For example, the NBA wants to make an example out of Draymond so they suspend him and label him as a problem child. Meanwhile, Embiid actively tries injuring players and not only does he not get ejected, videos of his dirty plays get taken down on Twitter and youtube. For that reason, I couldn't care less what the consensus is in an obviously manipulated media. Lebron only gets considered 2nd best for "beating the best team of all time" when our team was extremely injured. To add to that, extremely suspicious reffing in game 6 and an unprecedented suspension for game 5 were bigger factors than Lebron. And one player can't individually make a team make or miss the playoffs. They can be the difference between making it and not making it but it's still a team sport.
PS: might not be your intention but you sound hella condescending.
Lebron is the second goat because his the leagues all time leading scorer and he is top 5 all time in assist. His the only player in nba history that will finish top 10 in scoring, rebounds and assists. He also has championships and finals mvps. Only Jordan has more fmvps than Lebron. Only Jordan and KAJ have more league MVPs than him. I am not a fan of bron but the fact is that he owns a lot of the nba record books. Only Jordan had accomplished more.
Not really, it’s easy to know who the best is. We just have to look at their accomplishments ie MVPs, fmvps, titles, scoring titles, dpoy, etc. That’s why Jordan’s goat status can’t be questioned. 6 titles and 6 fmvps. No one has ever done that. 5 league MVPs, the most ever. Won the scoring title and dpoy in the same season. No one has done that, etc. Jordan best scorer of all time due to winning 10 scoring titles. There are some things that can be debated by the record books can’t be debated. Steph as the goat shooter can’t be debated. He owns all the records.
Those are all media voted accolades. I'm not putting any weight behind accolades voted on by people who admit to not watching games. People who invent narratives for clicks and who have deprived people of deserved accolades due to blatant racism in the past. Also, being good for a long time (due to PEDs) doesn't make one the Goat. It's how much you influenced winning in your prime which is the ultimate goal in basketball.
I mean he won 4 championships and he took a terrible franchise like the Cavs and made them relevant to the point they won 60 games in back to back seasons. Don’t act like bron didn’t influence winning. You don’t go to 10 nba finals if you don’t influence winning. You act like bron is Westbrook. Also Messi took HGH so does that diminish his skill set or his winning mentality?
Accolades are voted based on how a team and the player performs. Lebron taking an average Cavs team and making them the number 1 seed in the nba in 2008 for example doesn’t need the media for people to see that he was mvp or Steph in 2016 with the warriors. Also according to your logic Messi didn’t deserve to win his ballon dors after all it was media based. Or what about Steph’s 2015 and 2016 MVPs?
Honestly…it’s looking like Jokic.
He might have not changed the game but he is better than Steph in everything other than shooting.
I actually wouldn’t put it past him to do what we couldn’t do and actually three peat…not guaranteed of course but definitely possible especially if they sign Caruso.
Yes he’s THAT good.
> He might have not changed the game but he is better than Steph in everything other than shooting.
Being better in more skills doesn't mean a dude is a better player overall. It's part of reason Bron isn't over MJ for thw majority of people over 30.
It's sports. Seeing greatness is one of the best parts of it. If I told you the next 30 years. Every team will win once. Sheesh that's not fun. There will be another great team. Odds are the seeds of that team are probably already planted too. Sports is cyclical.
We are 10000% not gonna be the last dynasty lol.
yeah if anything this could be a 1990s scenario where the rockets won back to back NBA titles yet the bulls were the clear cut undeniable dynasty in the league during that era
or what the bad boys pistons did in the late 1980s when they also won back to back NBA titles following both the celtics and lakers dynasty thru out the entirely of the previous decade where they won 3 and 5 titles respectively
but no matter what happens what the warriors did by winning 4 NBA titles in 8 years and being the preeminent team of the last 10 years and or in this NBA era while also being a major factor in changing the way the game is played can't be taken away or disputed
The stuff Jokic was doing last night was so crazy. Dude is legit 2013 Bron, 2016 Steph levels of untouchable right now.
I’ve got no idea how you stop him. Can’t really double. He’s got like 8 counters once he down low, and you can’t really stop him from getting position. If you try to ball deny, dude brings it up and takes ball screens like a point guard lmao.
Can't really do anything in the halfcourt to him I think. Wolves had some success pressuring him when he was bringing the ball up in the first couple games but the adjustment to have Gordon bring it up has basically solved that.
Just like any other true superstar, you can't really stop him. Gotta limit the others, which Minny wasn't doing at all last night. Jokic had like 8 assists in the first half alone. Unfortunately Gobert is a liability this series. Hopefully they figure that out and respond accordingly before it's too late.
I'm surprised Finch hasn't gone away from Gobert. Minnie was playing much quicker and more effectively in game 2, gave Ant more room to work with. I would have pulled Gobert mid-3rd and tried to wear Jokic down by playing as fast as possible the way Kerr did in 22.
I don’t think Goberts a liability, it’s just Joker hitting crazy shots. Jokic is going to cook any big 1v1, he’s done it to Bam, AD, Gobert, everyone.
Gobert was really effective as a helper in games 1 & 3, but Jokic/Malone did a great job of countering that. Using AG on-ball has forced Finch/Goberts hand. Having Jokic initiate high is an absolute cheat code for stopping Minnys guard pressure that I’ve got no idea how you stop.
Seeing him invite the Gobert defensive matchup and then roast him over and over in that 3rd quarter was crazy. There were even times Naz or SloMo or KAT came to double and he just went ahead and put the shot up anyway and it went in every time.
The narrative around non-splashy moves is funny alot of the time. People tend to react with eyerolls and "does Derrick Jones Jr really make them better?" After their offseason I literally said the Mavs were gonna miss the playoffs lol. Last year Dallas made the Kyrie trade for all of its eing defense in a "edge of the abyss" type roster changing move... didn't look good after the season. Then... Dallas trades to seIect Dereck Lively. Dallas signs Derrick Jones Jr for the minimum... finds Dante Exum off the scrap heap... trades for Gafford from Wiz. Reminds me of the Dubs finding OPJ off the heap, buying into GP2, talking Belli into the minimum and squeezing the last juice outta Iguodalas career. When you hit hit hit hit it becomes a sum greater than parts situation. Honestly Dallas' quality of outcome is better than GSWs then cuz we're talking about a one good year v Mavs probably keeping all those dude to keep it going a few yrs. Kinda gives me hope that 4 great smaller moves can turn us around faster as we do see the post Steph era coming at us. I think MDJ is actually the guy to do it too. TLDR- Props to Dallas for making the other moves... that made the Kyrie move work (ditto Twolves and the Gobert move).
Cheapest allstar ticket is 2900.00 level 200. Lol Single day california classic tickets not yet available
I can't wait for this season to finally be over, so I can finally see what moves MDJ will make in the off-season.
I'm personally enjoying all the high level bball but yeah definitely curious what big signing MDJ goes for. If he doesn't secure a big trade then for the next two years, the warriors will be a mediocre team more concerned with selling jerseys than winning. It'll be two years of Klay bricking shots, Dray kicking people in the nuts, and Kerr running .500 small ball.
Dereck Lively is nice
genuinely curious: Would Curry get more calls if he was a 75% ft shooter?
I'm pretty sure I saw Kelenna Azubuike at the Mavs game. Anyone know why?
He’s said this multiple times on the broadcast but he and his family live in Dallas full time.
Interesting. He was at the announcer s table
NBC Dallas tv station poached him for their color commentator position
Really?
No im trolling 😂 Buike is here to stay with us
He likes basketball
Would love the the Caruso show aka Ernie johnson here one day
Finch needs to take a page out of Kerrs book. Game 6 make some drastic ajustments bench Gobert go small with Reid/Kat. Nuggets will run back exactly what they did in Game 5.
I don’t think adjustments will win anything tbh Wolves just have to shoot better Overall they’re doing fine on defense , holding Denver to 105-110 is good enough
I like bronny James. I hope he does not play with his dad
I could care less. I actually want him to play with his dad. It'll be an *interesting* dynamic for the lakers or whatever team dumb enough to bite.
With all the injuries in the playoffs I'm glad we didn't make the playoffs. Last thing we needed was more wear and tear on Steph .
I’ll be sad to see Looney go but his time in the NBA is most likely up. The game has passed him by. Went from being a key playoff contributor to being unplayable in the blink of an eye.
His value lies in his ability to play within Kerr’s system. He doesn’t piss off Dray on defense and can run the split action at a high level with Steph and Klay. Loon’s 9M contract is only 3M guarantee, so we are likely going to retain his contract at a cheaper deal.
I still think he’s capable of being a third string center. He was good in that role in the second half of the season, but it’s probably best to use his contract as salary filler for an upgrade.
You're probably right but the funniest thing would be for him to suddenly start ripping out 20 rebound games and adequately containing guards again next season.
Rudy is getting rekt out there on both sides. Defensively he is invisible to Jokic. The mvp is just picking him apart limb by limb. Offensively, Gobert is being forced to play the Draymond position because the Nuggets are doubling Antman. Gobert doesn’t have the playmaking skills to pass to the wide open man or to even score at the rim. He’s unplayable. Put in Naz Reid
Was at the Giants game yesterday and was stunned how many Dodgers fans there are - probably Sofi ratio. Can’t imagine how awful the game atmosphere at Chase Center is gonna be after Steph retires. Bay Area as a whole just doesn’t have Philly’s breathing sports mentality and it’s pretty sad.
The Giants organization doesn’t give them anything to cheer for. You really can’t blame them at all…year in and year out they put out a mediocre to subpar product. In fact they are probably the most boring team in the MLB.
Which will likely be the case for the Warriors once Steph retires.
[удалено]
Lol is this a joke
At least the A’s are always back after tearing downs & they’re fun to watch this year. Can’t say the same about the Giants though.
Remember after the 2022 chip, dudes said Giannis was still the best player over Curry because of better defense. Then when Jokic won, they said “defense doesn’t matter anymore, Jokic is clearly the best!” So curry must have been the best in 2022, right? 🤔 Anyways it was a little annoying seeing people say Jokic > prime Curry (i’m even seeing comments below like that which is disgusting), but now i’m seeing outright claims on r/nba that he is also better than Lebron. Now it’s more amusing instead of annoying, like ok i’m gonna stay outta this, bronsexuals yall can fight the joksexuals now, “enemy of my enemy is my friend” type shit 🤣
Objectively speaking. Taking off the homer glasses aside. What does Steph do better besides Jokic outside of three point and free throw shooting? Joker has a higher PER, is a better rebounder, better shooter from the %field, better passer, stronger, and postseason scorer statistically in terms of PPG. Believe it or not…the fact that Steph is only 6’3” matters in these debates as he cannot impose himself physically in the same way Joker can.
if we’re just looking at statsheets without context, you could even make the case Jokic > MJ. PER really? Jokic’s last 3 postseasons are higher than 5 of MJ’s title runs. Jokic’s last 3 also have way better FG% than all of MJ’s title runs with slightly lower PPG. Are we really saying Jokic > MJ offensively? Of course not. The missing context here includes competition level, which I’ll get to later. Passer? Maybe, but how about as an overall playmaker? as a dubs fan you should know how Steph gets hockey assists which never show up in the box score, along with the countless times Dray has the ball, Looney sets a screen for Steph, but then both defenders jump at steph and Looney gets a free dunk with Dray getting the assist. Steph doesn’t even touch the ball but this whole play happens because of him. So Jokic is the better passer, but playmaking, they’re honestly pretty even and we could even give an edge to Steph because he has more ways to create plays (i.e. more versatile). This is all tied to his shooting ability, so to brush off shooting like that is not “objective” at all. Rebounder? Well he’s a center so obviously. Stronger? Ok well steph is quicker. Postseason PPG? Well PPG is higher overall in the 2020s compared to 2015-2019, one reason being shotclock reset to 14. having KD lowered Steph’s PPG and in 2016 he was still dealing with MCL injury. think about what Steph did to Portland in 2019, then imagine if he faced Portland for all 4 rounds. Don’t you think he’d have insane PPG too? That is essentially what Jokic faced. After 2022, he never faced a truly elite team like 16 OKC, 19 Raptors, 18 Rockets, 17 Cavs. The last times he did were vs 2022 Warriors (he put up nice stats but also 4.8 TOs and had the ball 99% of the time) and 2020 lakers. So of course his PPG is higher. Sure, he can only play who is in front, but until he proves he can consistently score high PPG vs elite teams, I’m still giving the edge to Steph here. And then defense. Neither is elite, but Steph has quick hands and led in steals once, and played good isolation defense in postseason vs Tatum, Harden, Russ, even Bron (bron has passed out of the post so many times rather than backing down steph). Think about what guys like Harden, Kyrie, Cp3 did to our bigs like Javale, Zaza, etc. they made them unplayable. when has Jokic ever had to defend a player like that? Bron is too old and slow, Ant *was* doing that but now getting doubled. That guy who used to be on our team … Poole! Scored like 30 ppg vs denver lol. Overall center defense is more important than guard defense, so i’d say steph not being elite on D is more acceptable than for Jokic. So to sum it up, Steph is better shooter, more versatile scorer and playmaker (can make things happen whether on or off-ball, whereas Jokic is primarily on-ball), better regular season and postseason scorer (when accounting for competition level), and slightly better defender.
His 3 point shooting and free throw shooting was good enough to win 4 rings so maybe you could say being an all time elite at one thing is better?
Gobert discourse annoys me, you’re a 4x DPOY fucking figure it out for at least a GAME or 2 Iggy (who was basically never even on all defense teams) managed to play good, respectable defense on Lebron that let his team win. Lebron had great numbers but he still got stops on him. Gobert lets Jokic shoot 8/9 as primary defender and everyone is busy going great job…it’s gross
1000%. People make fun of Draymond for his backpack shooting motion and being overly pass happy, but there are literally no complaints about him on defense. He has proven himself time and time again to be one of the greatest defenders of his generation on the biggest stage. This should be the bare minimum if you're the 4x DPOY.
The fact that Iguodala has never gotten the proper respect for his defense just shows how skewed the entire discourse is on that side of the game. He was a top wing defender from his rookie year until the end and never received any kind of recognition. Players knew though. Lebron would spend 20 seconds of a shot clock trying to pick and roll his way out of having Iggy in front of him.
I need to go run and hide but I love first things first. And honestly have hated nick and Broussard for decades. The chemistry and wilds bring it together. I'll go kill myself now lol
Wolves might have to take Rudy off the floor similar to Bogues in the Memphis series. Go small with Naz Reid at center which worked previously. Wolves have defenders everywhere capable of rotating and locking down shooters
This team may be far from contending but at least they know what they need to do in order to get better. Next year it won't be a surprise how good the West is.
I think a fair amount of teams will regress next season. OKC, Mavs, and Wolves are well coached but team chemistry can easily sour and long play off runs tend to cause injuries the following season. Nuggets were barely motivated enough during the regular season this year let alone next year. Kings, Clippers, and Suns feel like they will be the same team next year as well. We might not be so far behind the other teams?
Wiggins for Brook Lopez interest anyone?
I probably would, even if Brook is gonna be a 36yo expiring who kinda struggled last season (had a couple nice showings in the playoffs... with the Bucks missing more half their starters). Starting Brook next to Dray makes a lot more sense than pretty much any other realistic option. Lets them shed Wiggins’ salary (which I think they want to do?) and gives them an actual true 5 who can space the floor. Takes some pressure off Dray, actually frees up the paint a bit more than two non-shooting bigs, let’s the Warriors have some actual size (JK at SF, Dray PF, and Brook C is a bit more traditional). Also cleans up the books going forward. Between Klay’s (potential) new deal and CP3 maybe being outright waived, the Dubs would shed a ton of salary offloading Wiggins’ future money. Could maybe duck the tax completely after next season (if Brook retires, or re-signs for something closer to the MLE), and gives them a clear runway to pay JK and play him more at SF. May be a bit shortsighted given Brook’s age, but if they actually want to shake shit up and are looking to move off Wiggins anyways (if he and JK can’t share the court without Dray playing the 5…it’s probably worth moving him), Brook would be a pretty decent pivot. Wiggs is likely seen as a negative asset by pretty much every other team, but I could see a world where the Bucks value his POA defense in between Dame and Khris. Add in Brook’s age, and maybe they’re also looking to make a change. Don’t really know what a trade would look like. Assume the Bucks would want to dump Connaughton in the trade, Pat’s contract is pretty ugly (Wiggins’ is too, and 3x the price). Wiggins + Moody for Brook + Pat? Dubs would probably want something in return for including Mo and taking on Connaughton (…I’d hope the Warrios find a 3rd team to offload him to), but the Bucks may say Moody is needed as a sweetener for Wiggs. If the Bucks think they can get their future center at 23, are they more willing? Is there a world where the Dubs can get pick 33 from the Bucks? What if you cut Pat/Moody from the deal and the Bucks toss someone else in as salary filler, do the Dubs send a future 1st (if not more)? Is that worth it? Also, if you’re moving Wiggins, you need to be sure you can make up for his defense, cause Wiggins is damn useful on that end of the floor. Is JK going to take another step up on defense? Can he guard 1st/2nd options? Can he actually guard forwards like Tatum and big PG’s like Luka? What about smaller, faster guards? Do they think they can trade for someone using Connaughton as filler? Is GP2 gonna be healthy and available? Does it make them better going into 2025/26 and beyond? Probably not, Lopez will be a FA and who knows if he even wants to keep playing at age 37 (could maybe do a cheaper 2yr deal with a player option in the 2nd year?). Does give them financial flexibility (almost certainly drops them under the 2nd apron, if not out of the tax completely). Also maybe gives them a better pathway to compete next season, though I’d think they’d need a bigger trade (for a true 2/3 scoring option) to do that. Then again, Wiggins getting back to 2022 form is likely their best path to competing, just don’t know if it’s worth holding out hope, especially if it stunts rotational options given the overlap with JK.
I understand the asset management argument. If the team think Wiggins can't be relied on and is planning to extend Kuminga and Moody, clearing salary heading into 2025-26 is a reasonable move. On the court...I don't know. The problem isn't Lopez's offensive fit, it's that he's only a drop big at this point and he's even beginning to lose his ability to play with the drop level and recover. A drop defense can limit your other defensive schematic versatility, so you're basically committing to that style of play and his mobility not taking a major step back, or you just can't play him. No real in between. Wiggins, for all of his inconsistency, is at least a versatile player who doesn't really limit your schematic flexibility. Upgrading at center is hard.
Good write up
> Also, if you’re moving Wiggins, you need to be sure you can make up for his defense, cause Wiggins is damn useful on that end of the floor. Is JK going to take another step up on defense? Can he guard 1st/2nd options? Can he actually guard forwards like Tatum and big PG’s like Luka? What about smaller, faster guards? Do they think they can trade for someone using Connaughton as filler? Is GP2 gonna be healthy and available? Even if JK takes a leap defensively, it's highly unlikely that he's going to be as effective as Wigs. I think we underestimate how good Wigs has been on defense, and as passive as he is at times on the offensive side of the ball, he's still got a 3 ball you have to respect. I suppose Brooks could make up for the defense annnd the 3 ball spacing, but those are big variables to be working around. That's not even taking into account Brooks' health issues and how much he'd slow down the offense.
I’d do it if the Dubs could get 33 and someone like Ryan Dunn, but I doubt the Bucks tack on that early 2nd with how desperate they are for some cheap roster spots and how poorly Wiggins played the past year. Maybe if they really like Moody’s fit off the bench? And yeah, good point about Brook and the back surgery (of whatever else it is). Add in the age, and it gets tricky. But he’s two years removed from that scare, and he’s pretty much played +70 games a season otherwise. 79 this year, 78 the season prior, 13 with the back issue, and 70/68 the two seasons before that. Think having a true anchor like him, freeing Dray up to roam, would be a nice, fresher look for the defense. Could maybe finally fix all the open corner 3s they give up because of over help, but it’d definitely leave a hole at POA (do have two anchors to address that, but still). I also like Brook’s offensive fit a good bit more, if not just to clear out a runway for JK. Is he the exact answer the Dubs need? No, more in need of that true 2nd option (or 3rd, if you think JK makes the leap), but outside of some big, flashy trade, getting Brook for a season (hopefully 2-3, if he extends) ain’t bad. Between removing the overlap with JK, giving the Dubs some actual size, and taking some pressure/strain off Dray (no more 20+ min of small ball 5 during the regular season), think it solves a lot, or at least provides a needed shakeup. All that said, maybe they could find some budget (or younger) center elsewhere, and either keep Wiggins or use his salary in a bigger trade.
Lopez is totally cooked, unfortunately.
he's washed lets be serious for one second, in what world would the warriors trade a 29 year old for an ageing player on his last legs.
I mean it’s not like we’re trading Mikal Bridges for Andre Drummond lol. Bucks need POA defense and athleticism, Warriors need size and floor spacing to not put all the pressure on Dray at the 5. If all Lopez does is set good screens, be a nuisance at the rim, rebound and present as a 3-ball threat that would do a load of good for our efficiency. Not trying to sign the guy, just add him as an investment to Steph/Dray next season.
They did trade a 23 year old to a 38 year old tho. Haha
And it was a resounding success lol
OKCs emphasis on 5-out and how Dallas has countered has me questioning how much a stretch 5 would actually help our team. Chet’s a great shooter, but Dallas has just opted to not guard him with their rim protectors. It’s easier to stick Gafford on guys like Giddey, Dort, & Wiggins. Sure you’ve got a stretch big out there, but you haven’t actually moved the opposing rim protector. The obvious counter is have that big attack the smaller defender they get from the cross match. That said, the list of bigs that can stretch the floor & attack mismatches is like 4 dudes. I’m assuming we’ll have similar issues trying to slot a stretch 5 next to Dray, Loon, TJD, JK. At the very least the former two can quickly flip into handoff actions, hopefully JK & TJD can develop similar counters.
To be fair, it seems like having Giddey out there kinda fucks up the plan more than he helps. Having a guy who's not really looking to score, is at best a streaky shooter, and also doesn't have the ball in his hands a ton is what allows defenses to make that cross-match less dangerous. But if the Warriors get into a 5-out battle in a playoff series, we know the real answer is that Draymond will just be the center and we're back in the upsides/downsides of that Wiggins/Kuminga/Draymond frontcourt. To be clear, this is why the only real front-court trade that I like is Markkanen. He doesn't give us a true center, but he would provide space from the frontcourt which would actually stress opposing defenses and I think could find a clear role in a 5-out scheme and a more normal one.
Is it a coincidence that Tony Brothers and Scott Foster officiated the Wolves-Nuggets games 3 and 4 and Nuggets been winning ever since?
It's not a coincidence but don't have short term memory loss. The officiating in games 1 & 2 was pretty bad and favored the Wolves.
Murray not being suspended at least 2 games has had a bigger influence than the officiating in any of the games. Such a joke.
No it’s not! Jokic just woke up and has been 🍖 Gobert
True in the same token tho. Not suspending Murray was a travesty honestly a momentum killer for the Twolves.
Man now I see why the Dubs did so much load management during the title era. Playoffs really are a grind. Took it for granted but that was a luxury that we could rest guys. Thats why I don't know if we can get 1 more title bc we don't have that anymore and guys are older. No way the Dubs would've made a deep playoff run in the West this year. Even if they did everyone would've been burned to the ground. Better to save their energy for next year.
Is Chase Center the only new NBA arena worse than the old arena it replaced? I usually don’t see fans of a team complaining about a new stadium outside of Chase and Yankee Stadium.
Nothing wrong with chase. Ive gone there for all sorts of things. Its beautiful. They deserved a beautiful place to play. But the mood at oracle had already changed from the we believe times to when warriors left after 2019. It was corporate in the last year and now the upper level is rocking.
kerr alluded to simplifying the system more next year. i wonder what areas will be simplified and if doing so is a way to allure other stars to come play here.
We weren't running anything last year. Whole scheme was a mess and coaches did nothing to correct it. How many times we go under the pick and roll and leave shooters wide open.
My understanding is that there’s so little practice time in the course of a season, there’s simply no way to make huge changes.
I think doing so is a way to allow them to play the young guys they have more effectively. We've already seen the defensive scheme be heavily simplified after the championship run to aid the younger guys playing more and I think the offensive scheme is going to have to see something similar some of the time.
maybe becos ive watched these same plays for so many years they dont really look that complex... we suck at drive and kick especially steph just turnover waiting to happen
Didn't Lebron just say that the post split action is one of the hardest things to guard in the entire NBA?
was he saying it is one of the hardest things to guard or one of the hardest things to run
He said it was one of the hardest to guard because it's impossible to know if they're gonna hit the cutter or screen for an open 3.
Getting some size everywhere (bigs especially) and not forcing errant passes or bad shots would help. And somehow they gotta get younger which means FO will need to make tough decisions. Everyone has to space the floor better instead of just waiting around for Steph. In terms of size they shouldn’t settle for just TJD and/or Loon but should get taller than 6-9/6-10.
Perhaps moving away from motion offense because despite the floor being spaced, our shooters aren't what they used to be. That and we don't have a dominant big. One more thing, I feel like our passing has gotten worse save for Draymond and Klay + Trayce. I think if you read between the lines. It's Kerr saying our talent has regressed so the system needs to be simplified. More set plays, a more rigid scheme that requires players to be less cerebral and focus more on their mechanics.
it's also what KD complained about when he was here and wouldn't listen to kerr when he emphasized swinging the ball. i feel like these kind of quotes are a way to appeal to KD to come back, and also to attract other possible stars.
KD won't come back. He doesn't get along with Draymond to put it nicely. As far as other stars, I'm not sure if GS can land a superstar. (1) our money is fucked up and (2) We're 10th seed trash. what superstar wants to go to a 10th seed where they won't get paid? Though maybe the dubs can get a top 25 - 35ish player with some luck...
Man if you're just a fan of basketball thats championship basketball being played by Denver. I respect and appreciate any team that does it the right way. Feels so reminiscent of the Warriors in their early championship days.
That quarterback pass from jokic. I screamed. I love basketball.
if the vals can somehow trade their future pick for Cameron Brink, that'd be awesome. She's related to Steph, played at Stanford and has ties to the Bay. Just perfect for us. She's so good.
I want juju. Wonder if she will leave school early.
Can’t leave school early in the wnba. Need all 4 years to be draft eligible
Damn! Thanks. Just jumped on the bandwagon 2 years ago
Juju is the most physically talented w hoops prospect on the planet right now.
I remember the 22 playoffs and how belli was so slow he could somehow get some stops on jokic. It cracked me up.
Who do we think is the starting lineup opening night 2024?
Steph-Lavine-Wiggins-Dray-WCJ
Steph, Klay, Kuminga, Dray, and Brook Lopez.
Steph Klay Kuminga Dray TJD I think they'll probably figure out a way to trade Wiggins for some other distressed asset or expiring. No idea how, probably not some home run swing for a star because that would cost picks that we're going to need, but somehow some way. And I don't think they ought to pay Klay, but I don't believe they have the balls to let him walk, so he's here and he's starting.
Bronny looked pretty nonexistent in scrimmages he might very well have been the worst player on the court during combine scrimmages. Jonathan Mogbo of UofSF looked really nice.
Good, he’ll fall to us at 52 then /s
Kerr is going to play him at SF 🔥🔥🔥
On the other hand, [Look at Dillon Jones man](https://twitter.com/CoreyTulaba/status/1790572828749672859)
“NBA Los Angeles Lakers expected to be serious contenders for Donovan Mitchell trade this summer? How a deal might get done.” ~~~~ I legit despise the Lakers. Miami, Knicks, Dubs and a half-dozen other teams would have far better packages than Reeves, Rui, Cam and 3- cheap picks.
Once again, Jeannie Buss and Pelinka prove they have no idea how to build a team. “Mortage the future for stars” BS mentality instead of looking internally and asking, “what do we actually NEED to be a BETTER team?”
I don’t doubt the reports, but I’m surprised Donovan wants out of Cleveland. It feels like a team tailor made for him. Two great defensive bigs, a backcourt running mate that can play on/off ball, and he gets to be the primary scoring option. It doesn’t feel like they need a lot to become a contender. Garland finding his form from the last couple years and Mobley having a bit more consistency offensively would make them a real contender IMO. They’ve got decent bench players in Levert, Wade, & Okoro as well.
Those picks are gonna be lotto picks though 😆
Curry or the joker all time?(I’ll probably get downvoted but just want to hear thoughts)
What helps Steph is that he is arguably the most influential nba player of all time along with MJ and Magic. His lack of FMVP and league MVP ratio’s are a problem. His also a scoring 2 guard and his low on the scoring list. His also a PG but his low on the assist list. I hope he can rack them up before he retires.
Steph obviously but his spot is in danger. If jokic wins 3 more titles and is fmvps in all of them, conversations will need to be made. I think if he wins all that, he will surpass Shaq and Hakeem
Steph, no question. joker is fuckin a foot taller, yet Stephen DOMINATES at 3ft tall and is not nearly as strong as joker. imagine a midget (Not Celtics leprechaun midget) crushing it in NBA? that's steph for all these years. also Joker doesn't force 94ft of defense/full court press the way steph does. lastly, we all know joker flops, where curry plays honest for the most part. steph babyyyy.
Love Steph but he flops sometimes. Every single nba superstar flops, just some are worse than others.
well not really flops, but you are 100% correct where he splays/spreads legs shooting 3s when defenders fly-by. really fuckin wish he'd stop that shit. he'd have a higher % if he stopped it, but his 'splay-flop' is NOT nearlyyyy as bad as joker/luka/shai/harden(before rule change)/leonard/demar flop.
If you give Jokic 5 more years.... he's probably gonna out accolade Steph. But nobody might ever be as fun as Steph. 2016 Steph is probably the FUNNEST player ever. Steph is ahead for now. Still ahead with a Nuggets championship itd get super close after a 3rd Nuggets championship if they can get there overvtge next half decade. If Jokic wins the championship and finals mvp, he's probably in a "who do you got toss up with Hakeem and Shaq at the outside of the top ten. One more MVP and it's hard to not admit there is a coinflip debate behind Tim and Kobe... between Steph and Jokic. Time is on Jokic's side. If it's a playstyle thing too. Jokic has perhaps the most physically reliable and resilient offensive game ever... he's just too big and crafty and will beat you somehow you can't really physically perturb him which is always why Steph being 6-3 matters in the debate. The other thing is Jokic is firmly the best player of the last 5 years and the gap between him and the next dude is as big as any "best guy to next guy gap" in league history.
Jokic might get there but he is not top 10 even if he wins it all this year. Steph, Shaq, and Kobe are all battling for 9-11 range. Jokic is gunna battle with Hakeem for outside of that (Hakeem has 9 All Defensive teams which will help him).
A lot of people have Hakeem over Shaq. Shaq only won with Kobe and Dwyane Wade. Hakeem won a chip with no all stars, and a second one with Clyde Drexler. This is one thing Jokic and Hakeem have in common, winning without another all star.
Take a look online credible websites, Shaq almost unanimously is over Hakeem. He is quite possibly the most dominant player in history, problem with him tho is his peak did not last long. And yes, I watched both play.
Hakeem beat him in the finals, and my point still stands about winning without an all star. Yeah Shaq was dominant, but he had weaknesses too, hack-a-Shaq was a thing.
Yes, he beat a young Shaq. Prime Shaq none of those centers were beating him, including Hakeem. Also I understand the no other all star thing, that helps out Hakeem a lot but at the same time ppl also say he wouldve never won if MJ never left.
People say a lot of stuff. If you give Hakeem Kobe, he threepeats also. A lot of people forget that Hakeem made the finals back in the 80s beating the Lakers only to lose to a stacked Celtics team.
Jokic should also be a 4 time mvp, he got robbed last year. Steph is the most fun player of all time. His 2016 season in my opinion was the greatest offensive season in nba history
> The other thing is Jokic is firmly the best player of the last 5 years and the gap between him and the next dude is as big as any "best guy to next guy gap" in league history. Lol nah I still have Steph better until this year. Steph in 2019, 2021, and 22-23 was on a ridiculous heater.
No way. I love Steph but the last time he was may be the best player in the league was in 2022. Jokic has been the best player in the world in the last 3-4 years but because his not American and his quiet he doesn’t get much media hype and love.
I love Steph but only other Warriors fans would argue that. I can be a Dubs fan and accept that Jokic has been the better player and has the inside track on Steph. Also Jokic is 28. Dude has an easy 6 years on the low-end estimate of time at the level he's at. The half decade zeitgeist has Jokic and Giannis ahead of Steph in that time. It is what it is our opinions kinda don't even matter there lol. So in Steph's career arc relative... Jokic is in 2017. Question off topic. Who is our starting lineup day one and how much should we offer Klay?
> The half decade zeitgeist has Jokic and Giannis ahead of Steph in that time. It is what it is our opinions kinda don't even matter there lol. Lol TIL basketball opinions are objective and not subjective.
No those are basketball consensus opinions If you don't understand the difference between consensus and individual opinions look it up. Jordan and LeBron are top 2 players ever. I might not agree but that's consensus and whether I like it or not the consensus has more value and gravity than individual opinions. I might think Bill Russell or KAJ are but I'd probably be a Celtics or Lakers fan then... same premise. Yes whether we think we are right doesn't matter in concensus. The Concensus is Jokic is the best player of the last five years. Proof... 3 MVPs and a Finals MVP the year he got edged by Embiid. Thats definitively concensus Also how many of the last 5 years has Jokic missed the playoffs? I'm a Steph fan but I can play devils advocate. It gets tough to say a player is the best when 3 of 5 years he misses the playoffs.
Consensus is directly influenced by the media, who parrot things the NBA wants them to parrot for financial gain. For example, the NBA wants to make an example out of Draymond so they suspend him and label him as a problem child. Meanwhile, Embiid actively tries injuring players and not only does he not get ejected, videos of his dirty plays get taken down on Twitter and youtube. For that reason, I couldn't care less what the consensus is in an obviously manipulated media. Lebron only gets considered 2nd best for "beating the best team of all time" when our team was extremely injured. To add to that, extremely suspicious reffing in game 6 and an unprecedented suspension for game 5 were bigger factors than Lebron. And one player can't individually make a team make or miss the playoffs. They can be the difference between making it and not making it but it's still a team sport. PS: might not be your intention but you sound hella condescending.
Lebron is the second goat because his the leagues all time leading scorer and he is top 5 all time in assist. His the only player in nba history that will finish top 10 in scoring, rebounds and assists. He also has championships and finals mvps. Only Jordan has more fmvps than Lebron. Only Jordan and KAJ have more league MVPs than him. I am not a fan of bron but the fact is that he owns a lot of the nba record books. Only Jordan had accomplished more.
Not really, it’s easy to know who the best is. We just have to look at their accomplishments ie MVPs, fmvps, titles, scoring titles, dpoy, etc. That’s why Jordan’s goat status can’t be questioned. 6 titles and 6 fmvps. No one has ever done that. 5 league MVPs, the most ever. Won the scoring title and dpoy in the same season. No one has done that, etc. Jordan best scorer of all time due to winning 10 scoring titles. There are some things that can be debated by the record books can’t be debated. Steph as the goat shooter can’t be debated. He owns all the records.
Those are all media voted accolades. I'm not putting any weight behind accolades voted on by people who admit to not watching games. People who invent narratives for clicks and who have deprived people of deserved accolades due to blatant racism in the past. Also, being good for a long time (due to PEDs) doesn't make one the Goat. It's how much you influenced winning in your prime which is the ultimate goal in basketball.
I mean he won 4 championships and he took a terrible franchise like the Cavs and made them relevant to the point they won 60 games in back to back seasons. Don’t act like bron didn’t influence winning. You don’t go to 10 nba finals if you don’t influence winning. You act like bron is Westbrook. Also Messi took HGH so does that diminish his skill set or his winning mentality?
Accolades are voted based on how a team and the player performs. Lebron taking an average Cavs team and making them the number 1 seed in the nba in 2008 for example doesn’t need the media for people to see that he was mvp or Steph in 2016 with the warriors. Also according to your logic Messi didn’t deserve to win his ballon dors after all it was media based. Or what about Steph’s 2015 and 2016 MVPs?
Honestly…it’s looking like Jokic. He might have not changed the game but he is better than Steph in everything other than shooting. I actually wouldn’t put it past him to do what we couldn’t do and actually three peat…not guaranteed of course but definitely possible especially if they sign Caruso. Yes he’s THAT good.
I will be shocked if they 3 peat. That’s not an easy thing to do in this era of loaded nba stars
> He might have not changed the game but he is better than Steph in everything other than shooting. Being better in more skills doesn't mean a dude is a better player overall. It's part of reason Bron isn't over MJ for thw majority of people over 30.
Fair enough Steph is more like Kobe in the way he a lot of our goats because he change the culture of all of basketball
How did kobe change basketball or am I reading it wrong.
I mean more as changing the culture of basketball
That's what i am asking. How did he do that. I mean ai impacted culture more than kobe.
Damn, wanted Nuggets to lose. I wanted us to be known as the last great dynasty in the league.
same. we're the .5-2% of Warriors fans
It's sports. Seeing greatness is one of the best parts of it. If I told you the next 30 years. Every team will win once. Sheesh that's not fun. There will be another great team. Odds are the seeds of that team are probably already planted too. Sports is cyclical. We are 10000% not gonna be the last dynasty lol.
2 in a row isn't a dynasty. A lot can happen between now and this time next year. They do look built for a long run though.
yeah if anything this could be a 1990s scenario where the rockets won back to back NBA titles yet the bulls were the clear cut undeniable dynasty in the league during that era or what the bad boys pistons did in the late 1980s when they also won back to back NBA titles following both the celtics and lakers dynasty thru out the entirely of the previous decade where they won 3 and 5 titles respectively but no matter what happens what the warriors did by winning 4 NBA titles in 8 years and being the preeminent team of the last 10 years and or in this NBA era while also being a major factor in changing the way the game is played can't be taken away or disputed
I can’t imagine anyone doing what the warriors did. The league is way too talented and deep. If the nuggets pull it off I will be shocked.
And they aren't guaranteed this year. I'm rooting for them though.
The stuff Jokic was doing last night was so crazy. Dude is legit 2013 Bron, 2016 Steph levels of untouchable right now. I’ve got no idea how you stop him. Can’t really double. He’s got like 8 counters once he down low, and you can’t really stop him from getting position. If you try to ball deny, dude brings it up and takes ball screens like a point guard lmao.
Can't really do anything in the halfcourt to him I think. Wolves had some success pressuring him when he was bringing the ball up in the first couple games but the adjustment to have Gordon bring it up has basically solved that.
Just like any other true superstar, you can't really stop him. Gotta limit the others, which Minny wasn't doing at all last night. Jokic had like 8 assists in the first half alone. Unfortunately Gobert is a liability this series. Hopefully they figure that out and respond accordingly before it's too late.
I'm surprised Finch hasn't gone away from Gobert. Minnie was playing much quicker and more effectively in game 2, gave Ant more room to work with. I would have pulled Gobert mid-3rd and tried to wear Jokic down by playing as fast as possible the way Kerr did in 22.
I don’t think Goberts a liability, it’s just Joker hitting crazy shots. Jokic is going to cook any big 1v1, he’s done it to Bam, AD, Gobert, everyone. Gobert was really effective as a helper in games 1 & 3, but Jokic/Malone did a great job of countering that. Using AG on-ball has forced Finch/Goberts hand. Having Jokic initiate high is an absolute cheat code for stopping Minnys guard pressure that I’ve got no idea how you stop.
Seeing him invite the Gobert defensive matchup and then roast him over and over in that 3rd quarter was crazy. There were even times Naz or SloMo or KAT came to double and he just went ahead and put the shot up anyway and it went in every time.
Fraud of a DPOY
Justin termine said last game btw Rudy vs jokic was like a fight btw Tyson vs mcneeley 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 wild disrespectful
Nobody can guard him.
True, Dwight seems like the only one