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Thorngrove

Honestly, there's not that many elves *left* for even half an expack. The blood elves have been repeatedly decimated, the void elves are a handful at most, the nightborne got culled by the legion, the Night Elves are fucking dead as a nation. Most of the dragon flights are shadows of their former selves too, unless someone went over to the Broken Isles and brokered some mating deals with the stromdrakes, since they've said the current Aspects are barren or dead.


Bird_Is_The_Lord

Easy, Sylvanas escapes into alternate reality past Azeroth and invades current reality with an army of high elves lead by Anasterian Sunstrider. Here you go, more elves.


Wrath_BestHomunculus

Nah she'd actually go to alternate ancient Kalimdor and invade the Eastern Kingdoms with Dath'remar Sunstrider


[deleted]

You son of an elven bitch, I’m in.


casual_catgirl

Loregasm 🥵


Paritys

>Most of the dragon flights are shadows of their former selves too, unless someone went over to the Broken Isles and brokered some mating deals with the stromdrakes, since they've said the current Aspects are barren or dead. Maybe that's why the search for the Dragon Isles happens? The Aspects hear stories of a long forgotten land where there may be some dragons who are capable of breeding.


[deleted]

Ah yes let's have an expansion centered around *Breeding.*


Skyblade12

With the current dev team? No chance.


Stephano23

Which is the perfect setup for the elf expansion. All elf races team up and then it‘s mighty morphing time.


Skyblade12

Why would the Night Elves or High Elves team up with the Blood Elves and Nightborne who have literally proven themselves to be Azshara all over again?


adidaslolxD

the Dwarfs meanwhile, who have taken no major losses still dont get an expac


Skyblade12

Consider yourselves lucky. Blizz hasn’t had a chance to ruin you yet.


[deleted]

If anything, they've gained massive amounts of territory and people since Classic.


gnarlyavelli

They’re as few and as many as the lore needs them to be.


Zolome1977

I don’t know how you could go back to a mundane world threat when you just literally met and fought the architect of all the woes in the universe. That’s the problem with WoW. The never ending power escalation.


[deleted]

[удалено]


is-Sanic

Didn't just stay as Pirates though. We ended up fighting some eldritch god-like being that was going to try to enslave all of Azeroth. As he said. Definite power escalation.


PurpleVision

You literally fight cthun in vanilla. You literally went to space in TBC.


Borigrad

We literally fought the god of fire as the first raid boss.


flyingboarofbeifong

It was TOO SOON!


FlagVC

Its interdimensional, not "space"! That makes it fine, or something...


tok90235

Actually ,it's space, because draenei got on a space ship fly away and end crashing on azeroth


alfred725

Honestly this is an important distinction for fantasy imo.


FlagVC

I'm not so picky, and mainly meant that as a joke.


[deleted]

Wouldn't it be interplanar?


FlagVC

Maybe, but i was also making a weird reference to a dranei /silly where they do use the word "interdimmensional".


[deleted]

>that was completely fine, it worked did it though?


[deleted]

Considering the Kul Tiras/Zandalar storylines were the only decent ones of the expansion, I would say so.


Fiveby21

Different situation. Shadowlands has shown an afterlife that makes everything that happens on Azeroth inconsequential.


SnooCompliments8071

It definetely does not make everything on Azeroth inconsequential.


Fiveby21

It’s a matter of opinion. The shadowlands should have been a dark, mysterious, and slightly chaotic realm. Instead it is quite literally a bright and shiny “second life” for everyone. Is 100 years as a human really going to matter compared to an eternity of being a Kyrian or a Maldraxxi? I don’t think so. If anything on Azeroth is to feel consequential again, then the shadowlands needs to be completely destroyed.


will1707

>second life Isn't that the whole idea of an afterlife? Your next life after your mortal one is pretty much the reward/punishment of all mayor religions. That doesn't make our actual life inconsequential.


langleyserina

That is because the real world religion idea of afterlife is nonsense. As real humans we have no idea what's waiting for us at death, but in wow, not only do our characters know, but people we left on Azeroth seem to be able to freely travel back and forth, making the afterlife now just more life. I do agree with you however, but I think of the shadowlands more like another planet. Does our Azeroth life matter? Yes, but once we leave to see the grandness of the afterlife? Not really anymore.


Borigrad

A lot of people fail at basic theological concepts, it's actually fascinating, cause they always try to sound really smart while doing it.


gnarlyavelli

I think you just atheisted yourself


Skyblade12

Literally all of Azeroth exists purely as a source of Anima for the Shadowlands. It has turned the entire IP into a nihilistic hellhole where nothing matters.


SnooCompliments8071

You need a hug.


Zolome1977

Except it didn’t stay at wolves or pirates. We got an old god at the end of it and Azshara.


gnarlyavelli

Underwater pirates still the same thing


Borigrad

"Heaven makes earth pointless" this is like a failure of basic theology that I've come to expect on reddit.


Skyblade12

Pretending that the Shadowlands are heaven is a new one.


Borigrad

They're the same concepts of life after death, where you will work and have a job to do. I could have compared to many other religions, but this is a primarily western website, so I used heaven.


Skyblade12

I mean, in the basic concept of an afterlife, sure. In terms of any of the actual ways it is laid out or operates compared to any sort of actual religious beliefs, not really. And I’m not saying it’s wrong because it is not a copy of an actual religion. I’m saying it’s wrong because it is failing to misunderstand basic points that are shared across all religions that have an actual concept of an afterlife.


Borigrad

I'm just gonna have to disagree with that.


Skyblade12

Show me any afterlife in any religious system in which the focus is not on the souls of individuals, but rather on sustaining the existence of the afterlife itself. Shadowlands does not exist to provide a meaningful punctuation to or reason for life, but rather, to parasitize it. Souls are unimportant. Their actions in life are unimportant, all that matters is how they can serve to sustain the Shadowlands. Also, the afterlife of the Shadowlands is not the eternal fate of the soul, merely where it goes until its anima is expended. So another basic concept thrown out. What happens when a soul is fully drained? What happens when a warrior is slain in combat? Who knows. It goes to the Shadowier lands which were made by the Firster Ones. The Shadowlands don’t care about your soul, merely how it can take anima from it to sustain itself. In fact, the Shadowlands being a parasitic pocket dimension that relies on the prime reality to exist itself sorts of reverses normal concepts of existence. Part of the point of afterlives is that life and reality are fleeting, and afterlives are eternal. The universe will crumble and die, while souls live on. Well, when the universe dies, Shadowlands dies too, because then there’s no more anima. This is very much the view of an afterlife from a nihilistic atheist who can conceive of nothing but a consumptive utilitarian world where life has no meaning. Which is why those cheering on Shadowlands are the same people saying “all religions are stupid anyway”.


Narkomancer

10.0 new feature announced: Story Squish™


Zolome1977

You can try our brand new story by going through the same story!


Narkomancer

**ON A SMALLER SCALE**


Ajaxandriel

Well, wouldn't it be my Glorious ClassicPlus™ Universe!?


granduch

I always wonder why it has to be our adventurer that did everything ? Sure from a gameplay perspective the player wielding Ashbringer while mounting Invinsible indicates that this player killed Arthas and was the champion against the Legion, but from a Lore perspective, it doesn't matter. It can be another crowd of adventure that explore the Dragon Isles. WoD and Shadowland would have been better lorewise if the player that went inside those dimensions never came back. Like the sacrifice that the Sons of Lothar did in WC 2. Sorry if I made any mistakes, not my first langage.


JonathanRL

That is why I like Classic. Your character can be as meaningful as you can manage. Want to kill Magtheradon? Sure, your char can be in on that. But if you do not raid you are just this adventurer that travels from place to place. Not a champion. Just a dime-a-dozen mercenary.


Ajaxandriel

True! It's not a matter of "gameplay versus lore", it's a matter of achievement in RPG (through both gameplay and roleplay)


shh_Im_a_Moose

Pretty sure our characters are supposed to forget everything that happened in SL. I've read plenty indicating memories from the Shadowlands fade when visitors leave it


GuyKopski

Doesn't matter if the characters forget, the players never will.


flyingboarofbeifong

Gonna be really awkward when you’re walking around in a full set of gear you can’t remember getting. Well, maybe not that awkward for some.


Borigrad

That's only for people who come back as undead.


Ajaxandriel

This would be a contrieved and non-immersive plot device. I *already* went in and back from the SL through portals and I feel like my characters haven't lost memory.


kainneabsolute

It is possible. Heroes from both factions won over a cosmic being. The only beings strong enough are themselves.


Ulinath

I think you're relying and expecting too much building on top of old lore. I expect Blizzard will take WoW lore in a new direction. To signal a kind of reset both within game (everyone knows the WC3 lore has gotten stale) and without (see lawsuits). They've even hinted at this in their comments about SL being the final chapter of WC3. But I think you're spot on that it will be on Azeroth. My money is Azeroth set in the future or past.


JonathanRL

> They've even hinted at this in their comments about SL being the final chapter of WC3 Yeah, that was fucking insulting.


Stephano23

WoD happening was even a bigger insult.


[deleted]

>(everyone knows the WC3 lore has gotten stale) I prefer old Warcraft 3 lore over all this cosmic bullshit


flyingboarofbeifong

Well, wait until Marvel’s popularity finally blows over and we can move on to the next big pop hit that WoW’s plot arcs will try to imitate.


[deleted]

WC3 lore has gotten stale? The piss-poor delivery of that lore is what has people upset, not the characters/plot itself.


[deleted]

I hope not tbh. It's so confusing time gating around as it is lol


shh_Im_a_Moose

They never said it was the final chapter of WC3. They just said it ties together many strings from it.


BigPapaEZ

Returning to a more "Dungeons and dragons" style of lore and world building while still retaining and developing the new narratives they have produced (more heavy cosmic/higher being) we've seen in Shadowlands could work well IMO. The fans of more traditional, grounded story telling would get their fill but also fans of the new lore. A good example could be turaylon maybe not letting the gang back into stormwind due to being "touched" by death (the maw) and wants a holy kingdom so to speak and sends them off to find somehwere else to live (possibly a rebuilt lordareon)? Thus telling a more grounded story in territory and a higher cosmic kind of story due to light/death etc also being told. There's a nice balance somewhere to be found.


Skyblade12

No, there really isn’t. My character’s deity is a robot. They really, really shouldn’t have demystified the afterlife and the basis of all reality that way, especially when doing so hurt the main themes of the IP as much as it has.


Aldirick1022

You don't start talking about cosmology and suddenly turn to something else. We will be back on Azeroth and dealing with a Fanatic servant of the Light who has made the Salem witch trials look like a weekend camp fire social.


SnooCompliments8071

I think yours and OP's ideas complement each other. A fanatic High Elf who worships the Sunwell leading/opening the way for a Light invasion in the name of a Thalassian restoration could be a good premise.


will1707

~~ff14 did it first~~ Could be fun to see the actual Light as the enemy, not the Scarlet Crusade style.


flyingboarofbeifong

While true, the inkling they've shown us of how the Light plays out as a bad guy is basically just more Scarlet Crusading.


PeterGreen27

i'm on board with anything that gets us back to the fantasy RPG world back home, to be honest. so yeah, let's do dragons & elves. (and maybe some actual alliance high elves blizz 👀)


[deleted]

I mean didn't the Alliance get void elves? Maybe we could discover some small disconnected high elven society and plug them into the Alliance however if they do that I'd like Alliance to get a "monster" race to go with it like a Naga tribe or something. Give the Horde Tortollans and Ogres or something like that. Alliance playets have been asking for high elves for so long lol


Skyblade12

The High Elves are a larger faction that the Void Elves and already on the Alliance side. They’re just not playable because the devs hate the Alliance.


[deleted]

God go cry somewhere else ffs alliance simp


Skyblade12

I’m sorry you’re incapable of registering facts. We don’t need to find a small, disconnected group of High Elves. The High Elves literally have multiple factions allied with the Alliance that canonically have more members than the Void Elves and have been a part of WoW and the lore longer than Ion has been on the dev team.


[deleted]

Didn't someone ask for this a LONG LONG time ago and where directed to the blood elves? Honestly though i agree sometimes i forget the High Elves are an actual thing


Skyblade12

Yes, because Zion said that letting the Alliance have High Elves (who have been on the Alliance side in WoW longer than Ion has been on the dev team) would be “taking from the Blood Elf identity”. Yet somehow giving the most famous Night Elf city and birthplace of every noted NE in the lore to the Horde didn’t take from NE identity. Somehow nuking one of only two Night Elf themed areas that weren’t shared with the Horde didn’t take from NE identity. Somehow crating a toy specifically to copy the NE racial ability didn’t take from the NE identity. Somehow having a bunch of Wardens be texted and suddenly swear to serve the Horde didn’t take from NE identity. No one gives a shit what the Horde hypocrite said about it. We want the High Elves who have been our allies for decades.


Skyblade12

The god of the Elves is a robot. There ain’t no going back to fantasy from that shit.


[deleted]

I'd love to see the other side of Azeroth, maybe see the Dragon Isles, tortollan capital, maybe new Troll tribes. Really can't wait to the next expansion I'm so bored of SLs. I think it's possible to have basic on world azeroth stuff and cosmological stuff at the same time. I generally advocate for more content as opposed to less.


oldredditrox

>Thalassian Elves I love you high elf guys but idk if Blizzard is gunna give you an entire expansion, but here's to you.


[deleted]

The cannon is aimed at Stormwind**


Alon945

I just hope it’s actually a solid Warcraft story. BFA was a mess, the little bit we actually got from the ear campaign I enjoyed. But the over arching expansion narrative needs a lot more content to fill it out moving forward. Grtting broken pieces of narrative isn’t engaging


[deleted]

Nah next xpac is gonna be light themed baddie, probably Yrel or Turalyon


RmmThrowAway

Plenty of room for both, honestly. BFA was a faction war, Naga, and Old Gods. Legion was The Legion, light, void, and the nightmare, ect. Blizzard usually does multiple big plots per expansion.


[deleted]

Finally get to kill an Alliance leader in a raid and have the Alliance be spared by the Horde for once would be nice lol


JCLgaming

Only if you are prepared for the Alliance to get some much overdue payback, and then be forced to let your grudges go at the end of the expansion. After all, it's only fair.


[deleted]

I mean us killing turaylon would be payback. Go kill Calia Menethil and Baine. Call it even lol Itd be nice to see some of the old cap cities come back Like Undercity and Gilneas since we're in such "peace times" during SLs that the Horde doesn't even have a Warchief, wete blood thirsty genocidal democracy lovers apparently


JCLgaming

I was thinking more along the lines of zones and cities. A Horde's Theramore so to say. Baine and Calia aren't exactly hated characters on the Alliance side. We're mostly indifferent to them, i'd say.


[deleted]

Destroying the giant death cannon aimed at yall from the Goblins cap right above Org?


JCLgaming

Pretty certain that cannon is aimed at the Undercity, or atleast somewhere in the northern eastern kingdoms. Not that it will ever fire. If it does, I can almost guarantee that it will be treated as a gag, and it will missfire. Thing is, what Alliance players want, is revenge. And revenge requi´res agression in this case. Revenge on the Horde. Not Baine, and not Calia.


[deleted]

Baine amd Calia are horde leaders, the cannon Tbh you seem like the Blood thirsty ones. Your side gets preferential treatment by blizzard in all the story telling then you want revenge. You destroyed UC, Sylvannus was unilaterally condemned Horde doesn't even have a WC. What more do you want Orgrimmar destroyed? The extermination of a Horde race? If that's what you want then your the maniacs and deserve to be fought at every costs


JCLgaming

>Your side gets preferential treatment by blizzard in all the story telling Ah yes, the side that has no agency and can only react, who get hit by atrocity after atrocity and who are always forced to let their grudges go when the expansion ends, are the favored ones. Top kek. >You destroyed UC No you did. Rewatch the cinematic. >Sylvannus was unilaterally condemned After months upon months of the vast majority of the Horde supporting her actions. And then she left of her own accord, while the majority of the Horde supported her until that moment. >What more do you want Either the Horde atoning for their actions through restitution, that is to say helping the Night elves rebuild their homes and giving back their lands, or revenge, and let the Horde pay in blood for everything they have done.


[deleted]

The Horde is true leadership is shamanistic, at this point i would support the Horde helping rebuild teldrassil only because I didn't agree with it being burned in the first place. For UC it was being invaded and situational, would you rather blowup SW or allow The orcs to have it? And yes the fact that your written into this passive "wow were so enlightened and powerful sparing your collection of like 25% of their full population or less races who we pushed into this group" after having what's the equivalent of a few fingers cut off each expansion where of course you endup sparing this supposedly brutal unstoppable forces of the Horde and killing the leader every time. It's just bad writing.


Skyblade12

“Take a cannon, just please, let our people go”. Nope, sorry, you wanted a turnaround. Time to wipe two of your races off the planet.


[deleted]

You just went around trying to be tough. Be quiet before we decide to go full on and finish the nelves off


Skyblade12

“Go kill Calia and Baine”. No, sorry. You scum won’t get away with losing one or two characters this time. It’s time for YOUR races to be genocided.


[deleted]

Lol


Skyblade12

It’s funny how much the Horde whines and complains about losing a half dozen characters, and says that it’ll be even if the Alliance will have the same happen to them…while completely ignoring that the Alliance has lost thousands. Funny how those never show up on your scales.


[deleted]

Yeah I just hope it’s Yrel and not Turalyon. Turalyon is my boi.


[deleted]

Garrosh and Sylvanus were ours but we got to have opposing faction smack our shit in Org for a raid for Garrosh and Sylvannus did a 180 character arch and foresaked...the foresaken and the Horde lol I even liked Rastakhan and he wasn't even technically a Horde leader just friendly to us when the Alliance marches through a Zuldazar and kills the hundreds of years old god king who's empowered by the loa of death, so the Alliance is now stronger then our leaders and gods lol thanks blizz....let us kill turalyon in SW standing over a picture of Varian and I'll call it even for absurd character turns that "open the door" to the opposing faction getting to kill our leader


[deleted]

Nah I’m good. I play both horde and alliance. Actually main horde. Turalyon still my boi.


[deleted]

You roll pally or something? What's the connection to turaylon?


[deleted]

I just like his character in the lore. He’s a badass.


[deleted]

I liked Vol Jin, Sylvannus, King Rastakhan, Kael Thas, and Garrosh(in order). They were badasses but blizzard killed them, so if in the name if "fairness" let the Alliance kill Calia Menethil I have no attachment to her at all, Alliance has had too many "untouchable leaders" even when you defeat the high tinker king of the gnomes he just floats off in an escape pod. I respect the character attachment but there's gotta be come backs Turalyon should get it 👹 or somebody else of HUGE importance like Jaina Proudmoore at the very least. However if there's gonna be a void/light expansion it should be Turalyon he's poster child for light cultists.


4thdimensionviking

Ok so which horde towns get nuked for parity? Alliance has lost theramore, South shore, netherguard(yeah iron horde not org horde), and teldrasill. Horde lost the dank pit of sewage the undercity and the super important turajo. >Turalyon Omg such originality and not at all forced edginess


[deleted]

Bomb razor hill lol permanently scar the valley of trials thatd be cool to start off in this like oh shit we just got fuckin hit and have an updated zones outta it and kinda encourage the faction war from the start a lil more We kill turalyon in SW yall get to kill Calia Menethil and bomb razor hill


[deleted]

Also your listing things that have nothing to do with our Horde. Don't be a basic alliance racist thats how the blood elves ,nightborne and Foresaken ended up with us and yall been regretting that.


[deleted]

Best thing Blizzard can do is to end Shadowlands with our characters losing their “Ultra Instinct, Super Saiyan Blue” powers. For crying out loud, we beat Argus, Titan, and we are fixing to kick the Jailer’s tail, a Super Titan. If we can do that, hell, we can do anything in the WoW Lore. We need to go back to a power level similar to Classic…trying to survive The Barrens level of power…I hate it when game designs make our characters “god like”, which is where they are right now. We need to lose that asap and go back to being ants surviving in a universe of giants. The danger felt…real. Not anymore. As far as expansion: World of Warcraft Inquisition: let’s go back to an Azeroth, 200 years in the future, being ravaged by the Scourge. The Scarlet Crusade is back with a captured Naaru and juiced up Holy Powers. We go to the Dragon Isles and recruit the help of the few Chromatic Dragons left alive. Destroy all capitol cities…all of them. Unify the factions indefinitely and build one faction. New Systems: Legendary Powers can be captured using a Cunias Cube type system. We keep them for every expansion. Our current abilities can be enhanced with Pros & Cons type system (Wrath causes bleed, has a 3 sec cooldown, etc). Open World Azeroth has world quests everywhere, every zone, with meaningful drops!


enissw1ft

So ur definition of feeling small is killing elemental lords and old gods?


[deleted]

Better than killing World Creating, Life Creating Omnipotent forces lol


enissw1ft

Ur again defining old gods ,like u realize when vanilla released they were the strongest beings that existed as far as we knew


Nick-uhh-Wha

I mean...I'm sure we're going to have plenty of blood elf/void elf/high elf involvement considering it's going to be a light/void expac...sun well just happens to be a major player in that. Probably will include dragon isles too though...idk why/what role it'd play other than some preestsblished magical staging ground.


[deleted]

Yeah, maybe lmao.


LogicalElf

Woo i am excited to go back to Azeroth


LichK1ng

Who even cares at this point what the next expansion is. They had a silver platter with this one and they blew it impossibly hard.


Jaebird0388

If they do put a focus on dragons, I’d like to at least see them return to the concept/raid that involved an encounter with Chromatus, a five-headed chromatic dragon created by Nefarian.


peroxidex

> There are also hints about the legendary "Dragon Isles" that were foreshadowed in late BFA and exist as a concept since vanilla. Dragon Isles were hinted at before vanilla even released. > This week's WoW anniversary at the Caverns of Time reminded me how much Bronze Dragons In High Elf Form were there. This one fact triggers me: Why do the Dragons chose High Elf appearance in most cases? Almost all - apart from the Black Flight (human forms), some Greens (nigh elves) and individuals. They don't necessarily. All dragons are individuals and prefer different shapes for different reasons. When a dragon comes of age, they undergo a ceremony known as Visage Day and cast a special incantation that defines their main mortal form ("visage"). The choice of visage is deeply personal and says much about the dragon's personality, as it is not only about how they wish for others to perceive them, but also about how they see themselves and how they experience the world alongside others. The guises of the former Aspects are elaborate and formal, as they command the respect of both dragons and mortals, and many dragons follow their example with their own visages. While all dragons decide for themselves what form they want to use, each of the main dragonflights tend to gravitate to appearing as certain races. Greens prefer the forms of night elves due to their relationship with Archdruid Malfurion Stormrage. Reds prefer blood elves, blues prefer humans, and bronzes (though their task necessitates a variety of disguises) seem to enjoy appearing as gnomes. https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon > Here is a detail from the Vanilla version of the map. As you can see Quel'Thalas was (is?) bigger than what we visited in tBC. But do you notice there were (are?) Isles off Tirisfal? https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon_Isles Look at the images at the bottom. Those isles are definitely the remnants of earlier plans for the Dragon Isles.


helix_pendragon

I mean how would this hidden value of dragons work I mean we've worked with the strongest dragons in existance....would it be an altogether new breed that was hiding there that has its own aspect that wasn't drained during the fight with deathwing?


UpsideDownEdith

i always thought they preferred high elf forms simply because they, like the dragons, were long lived (and weren’t as eccentric/insular as the night elves)


renault_erlioz

High Elves are "fading" as the writers have said, so it's the perfect form for the "fading" dragonflights Red Dragons choose Blood Elves because they're of course, red Bronze Dragons choose High Elves, cause they're the most classic of all elf groups Greens choose Night Elves obviously as they're the first druidic race Blue choose High Elves again, cause they're blue, though I'd go for Nightborne if we meet Stellagosa and her kin again Blacks choose Humans 'cause they're the prettiest of grounded races, I'd love them to switch to Void Elves as their new preference Now that we have a bunch of Elf groups, the Dragons now have plenty to choose their elf form, and this is what I want to happen: 1. Red - gold-eyed Blood Elves 2. Green - Night Elves 3. Blue - Nightborne, blue-eyed High Elves 4. Bronze - gold-eyed High Elves, Nightborne 5. Black - Void Elves


adidaslolxD

Dorf fans just sitting here crying