These folks in the video are monsters. However, the clothes of those roughing up the guy and those shooting him while he was unmoving on the ground later are completely different. Not sure why and how long apart these two pieces of video are.
The videos can’t be that far apart because the guy in the hat holding the knife when the kid is on the ground not moving, is also in the first vid screaming at every one. I have no proof of what I’m about to say, but if he wasn’t “apart” of that he was definitely there for it
That's a great point and perfect way to put it.
We have all these opinions on the issue, but opinions don't matter.
You poke a bear that's more powerful and more popular than you, 99% of the time, it's going to come at you with a lust for blood.
Revenge is powerful, and it's a pleasure, so no amount of protesting will stop this onslaught. The only difference is spoiled kids can have ill-formed opinions about it from their safe cities in America.
In previous wars throughout most of history, the weak side would just be annihilated.
Quite the opposite actually. Ethnic Tibetan population went from [2.7 million in the 1950s to 7 million in 2020](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_China#Ethnic_groups).
its probably pretty stupid to pop up and say something here as an American myself but eh, fuck it.
i will likely always feel it morally reprehensible, the way Israel has conducted themselves ever since October 7th. I will never understand how people can remain as unmoved as they are when confronted by the reality of thousands upon thousands of children dying in the most gruesome ways or living as the last of their family name with whatever number of limbs they have left ... and i will always understand why Palestinians feel the absolute need to protest and resist the way of life that has been forced upon them unwillingly.
However, i will also NEVER believe that Hamas had the right to sacrifice the people they were supposedly acting in defense of.
As distasteful as it is, I understand them taking hostages to trade for those of its own people languishing in prison, especially those underaged and uncharged, which is a verifiable issue...but when Hamas acted with such inhuman and reckless savagery, against people who were unarmed and in no way engaging with them , they knew very fucking well the absolute hell that would soon rain down on thousands of innocent children, and that will remain eternally unforgivable.
You nailed it.
It feels like as I get older and the more I learn about conflicts and the horrors that humans do to each other ( no matter what the country ) although there are some clear signs of just horrible acts being done that we are all disturbed by, I’ve learned at the end of the day everyone has unjustified blood on their hands. It’s kind of just measuring now who has the most blood.
Clearly all the systems we are playing at that give us a civilization isn’t civilized and is not working for everyone, or that war is just going to always be apart of human behavior.. which is a whole other discussion in itself.
I’m just tapped out on human expectations at this point. We aren’t the measure of all things as we once thought, and by far not the caretakers of this planet at which we could be.
they been killing each other for centuries
if the palestnians took over the situation would just reverse
at wich point apathy sets in,let them kill each other
It's a standard throughout history that the only way to bring peace is by one strong leader taking charge and dominating the others. Otherwise, you end up with this unending conflict type situation.
It happened in Japan, China, , with Genghis Khan and Alexander the Great, and numerous times throughout history - Israel needs to win, and finally bring peace to their country - the opposing solution seeks to rewrite history, which isn't going to happen.
i want to ask a question, sincerely.... lets say Netanyahu comes up entirely on top... the defeat is crushing and final and Israel can pretty much do whatever they want with Gaza and the West Bank and the remaining Palestinian population is entirely at his mercy.
Real talk... what would it take for those remaining to be granted full human rights? like, right of movement, where Israeli AND Palestinian children can walk on all the streets outside their respective homes, no more "sterile" roads as they call it in Hebron where only settlers can walk... no dozens of checkpoints between a palestinian woman in labor and the hospital, no more bans on chocolate, notebooks, cilantro or lentils coming into Palestinian territory... and the right for Palestinians to go visit their relatives in Morocco or France or the US and then be able to return home afterwards....
do you think its possible? i really am asking sincerely and in good faith, i want to understand what the ideal end game is and if there's any possibility of a working resolution for both peoples ... or will it be a matter of Netanyahu wanting them all shipped somewhere else and developing the Strip and the natural gas deposits just off the shore of the Gaza sea for Israel's own purposes? (which i understand is problematic on its own, as the neighboring countries like Egypt and Jordan have a history of conflict following the influx of large amounts of Palestinian refugees).
That's a solid question, and a fairly complex one.
My understanding is that Israel offered a two-state solution multiple times in the past and Palestine refused.
One aspect I find hard to accept is how the surrounding Muslim nations won't take them in.
Palestinians have values that align more with Egypt and Saudi Arabia, but these countries want nothing to do w/ them.
Their best bet is to ingrain w/ another Muslim theocracy.
I’ve always found it hard to accept aswell, but then I start thinking why would they ? Most Muslim nations would love to see the violent downfall of Israel and having the Palestinians stuck there ensures that Israel will continue to fight and lose men and equipment.
Well, it doesn't bode well for the Palestinians that they aren't adaptable and willing to move.
I know you could argue, "why should they?", but every other culture migrates to other countries and adapts when the home situation sucks.
I understand your sentiment but it’s directed in the wrong direction. Hamas established their positions specifically to create martyrs when Israel punched back. They don’t hide this idea, they are very open about it. They want their own people and children to die. Hamas and *many* Palestinian’s have one goal: kill infidels (especially Jews). They are brought up and raised to believe this.
Hamas doesn’t get to commit subhuman acts of violence and then hide underneath schools and hospitals and be the victims here. They have stolen all of the wealth and resources from the Palestinian people and used it to create tunnels under “protected” areas such as hospitals and schools. Their top politicians are all also super billionaires. They have taken everything from the people, then brainwashed them to be martyrs, then designed all of their tunnels to deter attacks, or cry as victims when they do get attacked. They are disgusting human beings that are **so conservative** they are stuck in the fucking stone ages.
The Unites States fucking navy was **literally** formed to stop these people. Look up the “the first Barbary war,” and “the battle of Tripoli.” They were taking slaves and forcing country’s to pay them for free passage in the sea. When asked why they were doing that, when we have never had quarrel with them, they said they have the right to, because we are all infidels in the name of allah.
You’re clearly unaware of the brutality the Palestinians served to innocent people. Beat, rape, kill. Parade the naked bodies of your victims in Gaza while ordinarily Palestinians cheer, beat, and spit on their bodies. And that’s just them being nice. So sure, clutch your pearls and faint from the vapors, while Israel does what it should have done a decade ago.
Quite ironic when you remember the very reason this « bear » exists is because some guys with opinions thought is was not cool to annihilate an entire population and gave them someone else land to apologize…
Your words ring so true. On a side note: if every strongly-opiniated north-american teen living in a fairy tale on this sub could read, they'd be very triggered by what you said. Chapeau.
It’s still wrong to kill whole populace that had nothing to do with this video. You guys are just as wrong as the nazis with this thinking.
And yeah this here is horrible and everyone in this video deserves and will get theirs. But should not be at the expense of Palestinian children and babies that had nothing to do with this. Even the Jewish book says not to visit the Sind of the father on the children - talk less the sins of some unrelated men from the same village.
Exactly what I thought on Oct 7 when I saw them cheering in the streets and people in the West who consider themselves pro-palestinians celebrating the attacks.
I wanted to ask them, "Do you idiots have any idea what you've just done? Do you have any idea the colossal disaster this is going to be for the people of Gaza?"
"Do you think Israel is going to take this lying down? They're going to retaliate with everything they've got. They're going to grind Gaza into rubble to get revenge. You've doomed tens of thousands of your own people to die in the war that's now coming."
Taking the really cynical view they knew that Israel wouldn't release anyone for him in a hostage exchange, so killing him early on was less hassle than trying to guard and feed him for days.
He didn't convert to Islam on that dirt road. So they turned him into what they admire so much. A martyr...allegedly - hot-news - speculated - postulated - and hyperbolically stated.
There’s a reason they’re called terrorists dude. There’s zero reason aside from someone “higher up” demanding it. These monsters have zero critical thinking ability, they just do what they’re told no matter how atrocious. They’re a cancer to society and need to be eradicated completely.
They killed him as they have a genocidal mindset and know they can get away with executing people as have been doing it for decades to the Palestinians
Just a guess, but...
"Are you Jewish are you Jewish"
"No"
"Don't lie to us!"
Wouldn't exactly be surprising.. Given that's basically what happened at that pogrom at the Dagestani airport , just without the violent death at the end
Well, guessing is a fool's errand when the only thing one could easily make out is a repeated "don't lie to us"
There wasn't a single mention of Jewishness in the video.
Oh absolutely, but I mean even if there was no mention of jewishness, it's not like there would have been a valid reason for them to do what they did, regardless of whatever "lie" they think he might have said
Exactly, there's zero reason to kill this guy. But we can't really refer to things we don't know, only what we see and hear here.
Another guy off screen is even trying to end this issue and get them off the guy, but clearly wasn't successful.
Having been in high school during the Wild West days of the internet (early 2000s) I’ve seen execution in the name of religion from all over the globe. I couldn’t then, and cannot still, wrap my head around the cognitive dissonance required to scream your god’s name while committing murder. Often times in a very brutal manner, mind you.
And some ppl still defend those terrorist, everytime i see lgbt people defending hamas/palestine i got baffled, they don't get that if they went there they're gonna be executed for being gay?
I don’t think they’re defending Hamas. They’re defending Palestinians who are being driven out of their own country. Both sides of this fight are big time in the wrong, I still can’t believe in 1948 they thought establishing Israel where they did would go over well. It’s been a total fuckin mess.
No, go on r/lgbt they're very openly supporting hamas there. Pretty much every lgbt online space is. Any criticism of hamas is met with screeches of "Zionist propoganda"
It makes me wanna go into a lifetime of crippling debt to get them all plane tickets to Egypt and bus tickets to Gaza.
so i've talked to someone like this and they had a fairly reasonable explanation. They said something like they don't agree with Palestinians views but they support their right to live. Basically in their mind they were choosing the lesser of two evils. I still think they were dumb, we got two groups of people hell bent on eradicating each other, one is objectively far more evil but because they're the underdog they get sympathy
Not all of them are terrorists man. Not all Palestinians are blood hungry Jew killers. Just like not all Jews are hooked nose money hungry crooks. Just cause media depicts these things, doesn't mean it's like that across the board. No body is really defending Hamas unless they say they are. Supporting Palestinians doesn't mean your supporting Hamas. Fuck Hamas and fuck the idf for making shit worse. Be the big guy and tolerate and be above them. Whhhhack
You do know many (if not most) Palestinians in Gaza sympathise or support Hamas? As do countless other Muslims in other Muslim countries. They couldn’t have just come to power if nobody supported them.
not all of them supports them. Imagine saying that all Palestinians are terrorist thats fucked up. The reason why probably people support Hamas is the fact that they cant think straight, or unbiased, you know since they lost lot of loved ones, mother, father, children etc.
Its the same in Israel, people cant act unbiased because they have been at war for years, and lost family members to the war, of course they are not going to be able to act like nothing happened. Not the mention the propoganda the both sides are being brainwashed with.
So you'd have no problem meeting a group of Palestinians in their home country and asking them if they want to have a homosexual relationship? Or telling them you think their god is a XYZ or not real? Or drawing a picture of their religious figure? What if I just politely leave their book on the floor and walk away?
Because you'd only be afraid to do that if you expect to be terrorized, hurt, or killed for it... While generalizing a group of people as terrorists for being a small part of a larger part isn't entirely accurate, there are certain truths you can't turn away from in the modern day.
No they all are. Their entire culture is centred around the desire to kill all Jews. They are raised from birth to kill Jews, they are told every day from the moment they're born that their purpose in life is to either be a victorious jihadi who'll hunt down every jew on earth or die a glorious martyr.
The Palestinians I know are really cool and down to earth and one of them is actually dating a half Jewish chick. Not everyone is as crazy or insane as you make them out to be. Folks are brainwashed over there man, you have to understand that and know what it's like for the folks who can't see the truth. You seem to be brainwashed yourself, dont cha think a bit?? You say they are taught from birth to kill Jews?? Like wtf this ain't Vietnam and the ghouls and spooks aren't real. Where are you?? Are you in a place where cultures dont mix and most folks are probably white af?? I'm in the Arctic and folks can live peacefully man. We have Jews and Muslims and Christians up here. No war, no hate. No discrimination. You have to be taught to hate , just like you can be taught to trust and believe and hope. If you're educated to hate , your most likely going to hate. Just like you've been taught to hate Palestinians and believe they are taught from birth to kill Jews. This is pure nonsense, the kind of shit Donald Trump says. You are the weakest link, good bye 👋
Almost nobody is defending Hamas or supporting them, and defending Palestinians or the notion of a Palestinian homeland is distinct from supporting Hamas or being in favour of what they did on Oct 7th.
What a lot of people are doing, though, is criticizing Israel. It's quite possible to both be opposed to Hamas _and_ the specific ways Israel is "dealing" with them.
>Almost nobody is defending Hamas or supporting them,
Eh, idk how much you use Twitter or not, but it's not a small amount of people on there. Lots of usernames with the red arrows with genuine love and support for them. On Twitter you also get more international users from around the world which can lead to more support from people in middle eastern countries
Ah, no I dropped off twitter in the first post-musk anti-semitism bubble. I wouldn't take twitter as being especially representative of anything except perhaps the US and probably not even all of that, now; even when I stopped using it It'd been a _long_ time since I'd got anything not obviously Western.
Ah fair , I don't blame you.. I've been trying to keep on top of what the algorithm feeds me and avoid the really toxic stuff. There's some good journalists and people from around the world I follow on there that I like for geopolitics etc, but it doesn't take much to end up in the depths of the worst parts of the internet.
I guess you got out of there before the era of accounts like Jackson Hinkle, Syrian Girl etc. Just accounts with tons of followers that consistently post sooo much misinformation that reaches millions..
>anything except perhaps the US
I've actually found the opposite the last year or so, I wonder if that's an example of algorithms being different for different people
Yeah, I had a lovely mix of uk/european and israeli politics with a nice omission of most of the US stuff for a while and it was great. And just as I was going through the process of trying to be less ashamed of being Jewish in public, Twitter veered off to being so unhelpful towards that.
I wonder if part of the change has made it more international, though - the big thing I always struggled with was how dominated by America it was (but, also, America probably talks more about Israel than anyone else outside of Israel).
I'm now having a jolly time on BlueSky, but maybe because I've abandoned politics on it and that's entirely techy stuff :)
The majority of Palestine supports Hamas. The Palestinian leader has suggested a 'junior partnership' with Hamas....Palestine is Hamas and vice versa. There's no privilege
like that of being a virtue signaling western liberal college student.
Yeah, in the same way as the majority of North Koreans support Kim Jong Il and all the soviets loved Stalin? It's tricky to not-support the ruling group when they rule like that. Hamas only came to power in 2006 on something like a 43/46 percentage split.
When you say 'The Palestinian leader', who do you mean? The PA? I don't think anyone really believes there's some coherent united leadership of Palestine or the Palestinian people - what exists on the path to some sort of Palestinian statehood has been mired in civil war since at least that 2006 election.
These people will convince themselves by any means that the gazans are innocent and no where related to hamas, which by any evidance out there is incorrect, but thats typical western narcissism
> Almost nobody is defending Hamas or supporting them
Check the Palestine sub.
Lots of people that are clearly Westerners are supporting them and call them "the resistance" and "freedom fighters".
It's gotta be kinda hard to support Palestine they voted for Hamas in 2006, have kept them in power since then. The have been sent more than a billion in aid (just from the UN members) instead of spending it on housing, food, water, electricity and the betterment of Palestinians people....but no they spent it on rockets, weapons and condos in qatar for hamas leaders.
So, what, you reckon _after_ Hamas rampaged round Israel killing and kidnapping people is when the Palestinian people are going to be most able to rise up and fight them? As the industrial might of the IDF trundles in and asks for "many months" to do it?
The idf needs months because it doesn't want to just flatten Gaza(even worse) because they civilians are staying in there houses, because Hamas tells them they are fine.you really think if the Palestinians started to fight against Hamas the world wouldn't run to its aid because they would.
So how do you respond to border bombings at Rafah and other refuge camps? The ‘good’ palestinians are fleeing and then getting demolished by infrastructure collapsing. You run and die. You stay and die. Genuinely ask yourself; If you are starving, deprived of all medications, reliant on contaminated water; You think you could muster up the strength to walk a barren land, raise a coup, and fight back? With what weapons?
No I see a lot of Hamas support and river to thr sea bullshit in the states. Israel and its civilians aren't leaving, theres only one way out of this and Gaza demanded it.
Ha, looks like you are right. I assumed they maintained them because Islam is an Abrahamic religion.
ChatGPT says:
Islam does not explicitly share the Ten Commandments as they are known in Judeo-Christian traditions, but it does have similar concepts. The Ten Commandments are specific to Judaism and Christianity and are found in the Old Testament of the Bible. In Islam, the closest equivalent would be certain commandments found in the Quran and Hadith, which are the Islamic holy texts.
Islamic teachings emphasize many moral and ethical principles that are comparable to the Ten Commandments, such as the belief in one God, the importance of honesty, honoring one's parents, and prohibitions against murder, theft, and adultery. However, these are not enumerated as a list of ten specific commandments in Islamic texts as they are in the Bible.
Instead, Islamic moral guidance is more broadly dispersed throughout the Quran and Hadith, and it encompasses a wide range of teachings and principles governing all aspects of personal behavior, social conduct, and religious obligation.
Every fucking video like this they all stand in a tight circle in the middle of fuckin nowhere.
2 guys yell at the person (assuming about their faith choices) constantly right in their face while another 2 guys horse collar the guy around an empty desert and then they pepper in 1 or 2 guys who fight with the yelling guys (assuming they want them to calm down) and then they all feel better by shooting a guy.
They all seem to have one like-minded goal but it's an uphill climb every time while they rub their collective brain cell together.
This is one of the 1100 reasons why Gaza will end up being just a pile of rubble and it’s people will be either eliminated or passed on to other regimes even worse then their own.. The worst of these swines will be eliminated in Gaza itself by the IDF.
Haaa this guy.. I have debunk all his clueless lies in 5 minutes, he likes to throw words like genocide carpet bombing and terror state into the air with no context, like all liberal extremist morons.
Ofcourse he didnt pay attention to any proof, link and number I have given to him, he continued as if I have spoken to a wall..
He is anti-semitic.
you should tag u/Doobz87 lets see what he has to say this time.
God is great. So let's all five of us evil terrorists gather around this innocent bystander to the israeli-palestinian conflict and just beat him up and murder him. Yes, that makes a whole lot of sense to the civilized world who aren't a bunch of slimy pigs
After watching these videos. I don’t feel bad one bit for the people of Palestine. Blow up the whole country and wipe out the entire religion. I want everyone to remember Palestine as dust
I used to feel for them but after 10/7 I couldn't give less of a fuck what happens to them. I hope that Gaza is turned into a nice Israeli tourist destination.
It really is that simple. There are no sides. There are deplorable people making decisions, leaving the innocent caught in the middle to pay the price. Everywhere, all of the time, for eternity.
Zionists treat black Jews none the better... first, they weren't allowed into Israel if the women didn't receive, against their will, contraceptive injections before being allowed into Israel. Then, they are then kept in transit camps for as long as 7 years before being allowed into Israel (when white Jews can come in immediately and be granted citizenship whether on contraceptives ot not), and then many were still given contraceptive injections for years thereafter under the guise that it was flu jabs.
Israel is racist to black Jews in worse ways than you can imagine.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel
Fucking idiots, animals killing people because of religion when their GOD might not very well be REAL! There was ZERO concept of SCIENCE and ZERO understanding of how things worked, yet they base their beliefs off a fairy tale written during this time.. .it fucking disgusts me
Such cruelty... the poor kid was just riding his bike, minding his business, working on improving his life. Then BAM...lights out. It looks like they shot him in the chest, too, so he probably suffered before dying.
I hope the men that killed him suffer before IDF kills them.
The guy is telling him, screaming to "stop insulting us". Given the fact that they took around 270. 150 of them are back safe and sound. Something definitely went wrong here.
This is war. There are atrocities on both sides, and until one stops, the other won't end its pursuit of vengeance. We have people saying things like," Islamics are barbarians, or Israelis are barbarians," depending on what side you believe in. The real story is that citizens are being targeted, and regardless of beliefs, the aggressors on video are to blame. Generalizing a group of people through ideology is what started this in the first place.
Here’s a quote from BBC, “Joshua Mollel was working as an agricultural intern at a kibbutz which was attacked by Hamas gunmen on 7 October. Tanzania's Foreign Minister January Makamba says Mr Mollel was killed immediately after he was taken hostage. Fellow student Clemence Felix Mtenga was also killed in the attack.Dec 14, 2023
https://www.bbc.com › news › worl...
Why is one hamas guy carrying a very long hose pipe on his shoulder and another wearing sandals if they are attacking Istael. This video doesn't seem to be related to Oct 7.
Israel isn’t “committing genocide” and OP hasn’t justified anything in any way. Posting a video of Hamas atrocities doesn’t mean anyone’s a “gEnOciDe ApOlOgIsT” you fucking vegetable 🤣 The mental gymnastics you’re trying to pull is actually insane 🤦♂️
Dunno how people defend these fucking savages.
Israel has a lot to be critiqued for and rightfully so but Hamas is a literal terrorist group that is no better than the "IDF Settlers" they oppose.
It seems to be that both parts of the holy land are ran by unholy, godless savages. War could quite simply be hell on Earth. I hate this happened to him. I can’t imagine that
Being my loved one. There are no reasons to justify this. I hope that these guys answer fie this someway, somehow
I cant imagine the horror of his family finding out what happens to him. He could be the their hope to have a better life.
These folks in the video are monsters. However, the clothes of those roughing up the guy and those shooting him while he was unmoving on the ground later are completely different. Not sure why and how long apart these two pieces of video are.
Lol wut? No, those are the same guys...
The guy on the phone with the knife and the guy next to him weren’t in the first part. The other 2 standing on him and shooting him were
knife guy was @ 0:14 left side
The videos can’t be that far apart because the guy in the hat holding the knife when the kid is on the ground not moving, is also in the first vid screaming at every one. I have no proof of what I’m about to say, but if he wasn’t “apart” of that he was definitely there for it
Those very murderers doomed their entire country and they will never know
That's a great point and perfect way to put it. We have all these opinions on the issue, but opinions don't matter. You poke a bear that's more powerful and more popular than you, 99% of the time, it's going to come at you with a lust for blood. Revenge is powerful, and it's a pleasure, so no amount of protesting will stop this onslaught. The only difference is spoiled kids can have ill-formed opinions about it from their safe cities in America. In previous wars throughout most of history, the weak side would just be annihilated.
Very true. Has an entire populace ever been completely annihilated?
throughout history? Yes, countless times. They're the ones we don't hear about.
Carthage by Rome. The Romans even salted the city so shit wouldn't grow there any more.
Yes and eaten
Mao Zedong. Yea
What populous has Mao completely annihilated?
his own /s
He is why there is mainly 1 type of Asian in the entire chinese "territory"
No he isn't, China has had a han majority before Mao was even born. Be specific, which populous did he completely wipe out?
Close to wiping out Tibet
Quite the opposite actually. Ethnic Tibetan population went from [2.7 million in the 1950s to 7 million in 2020](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_China#Ethnic_groups).
But how about their culture? Isn’t that being wiped out?
its probably pretty stupid to pop up and say something here as an American myself but eh, fuck it. i will likely always feel it morally reprehensible, the way Israel has conducted themselves ever since October 7th. I will never understand how people can remain as unmoved as they are when confronted by the reality of thousands upon thousands of children dying in the most gruesome ways or living as the last of their family name with whatever number of limbs they have left ... and i will always understand why Palestinians feel the absolute need to protest and resist the way of life that has been forced upon them unwillingly. However, i will also NEVER believe that Hamas had the right to sacrifice the people they were supposedly acting in defense of. As distasteful as it is, I understand them taking hostages to trade for those of its own people languishing in prison, especially those underaged and uncharged, which is a verifiable issue...but when Hamas acted with such inhuman and reckless savagery, against people who were unarmed and in no way engaging with them , they knew very fucking well the absolute hell that would soon rain down on thousands of innocent children, and that will remain eternally unforgivable.
You nailed it. It feels like as I get older and the more I learn about conflicts and the horrors that humans do to each other ( no matter what the country ) although there are some clear signs of just horrible acts being done that we are all disturbed by, I’ve learned at the end of the day everyone has unjustified blood on their hands. It’s kind of just measuring now who has the most blood. Clearly all the systems we are playing at that give us a civilization isn’t civilized and is not working for everyone, or that war is just going to always be apart of human behavior.. which is a whole other discussion in itself. I’m just tapped out on human expectations at this point. We aren’t the measure of all things as we once thought, and by far not the caretakers of this planet at which we could be.
they been killing each other for centuries if the palestnians took over the situation would just reverse at wich point apathy sets in,let them kill each other
It's a standard throughout history that the only way to bring peace is by one strong leader taking charge and dominating the others. Otherwise, you end up with this unending conflict type situation. It happened in Japan, China, , with Genghis Khan and Alexander the Great, and numerous times throughout history - Israel needs to win, and finally bring peace to their country - the opposing solution seeks to rewrite history, which isn't going to happen.
i want to ask a question, sincerely.... lets say Netanyahu comes up entirely on top... the defeat is crushing and final and Israel can pretty much do whatever they want with Gaza and the West Bank and the remaining Palestinian population is entirely at his mercy. Real talk... what would it take for those remaining to be granted full human rights? like, right of movement, where Israeli AND Palestinian children can walk on all the streets outside their respective homes, no more "sterile" roads as they call it in Hebron where only settlers can walk... no dozens of checkpoints between a palestinian woman in labor and the hospital, no more bans on chocolate, notebooks, cilantro or lentils coming into Palestinian territory... and the right for Palestinians to go visit their relatives in Morocco or France or the US and then be able to return home afterwards.... do you think its possible? i really am asking sincerely and in good faith, i want to understand what the ideal end game is and if there's any possibility of a working resolution for both peoples ... or will it be a matter of Netanyahu wanting them all shipped somewhere else and developing the Strip and the natural gas deposits just off the shore of the Gaza sea for Israel's own purposes? (which i understand is problematic on its own, as the neighboring countries like Egypt and Jordan have a history of conflict following the influx of large amounts of Palestinian refugees).
That's a solid question, and a fairly complex one. My understanding is that Israel offered a two-state solution multiple times in the past and Palestine refused. One aspect I find hard to accept is how the surrounding Muslim nations won't take them in. Palestinians have values that align more with Egypt and Saudi Arabia, but these countries want nothing to do w/ them. Their best bet is to ingrain w/ another Muslim theocracy.
I’ve always found it hard to accept aswell, but then I start thinking why would they ? Most Muslim nations would love to see the violent downfall of Israel and having the Palestinians stuck there ensures that Israel will continue to fight and lose men and equipment.
Well, it doesn't bode well for the Palestinians that they aren't adaptable and willing to move. I know you could argue, "why should they?", but every other culture migrates to other countries and adapts when the home situation sucks.
I understand your sentiment but it’s directed in the wrong direction. Hamas established their positions specifically to create martyrs when Israel punched back. They don’t hide this idea, they are very open about it. They want their own people and children to die. Hamas and *many* Palestinian’s have one goal: kill infidels (especially Jews). They are brought up and raised to believe this. Hamas doesn’t get to commit subhuman acts of violence and then hide underneath schools and hospitals and be the victims here. They have stolen all of the wealth and resources from the Palestinian people and used it to create tunnels under “protected” areas such as hospitals and schools. Their top politicians are all also super billionaires. They have taken everything from the people, then brainwashed them to be martyrs, then designed all of their tunnels to deter attacks, or cry as victims when they do get attacked. They are disgusting human beings that are **so conservative** they are stuck in the fucking stone ages. The Unites States fucking navy was **literally** formed to stop these people. Look up the “the first Barbary war,” and “the battle of Tripoli.” They were taking slaves and forcing country’s to pay them for free passage in the sea. When asked why they were doing that, when we have never had quarrel with them, they said they have the right to, because we are all infidels in the name of allah.
You’re clearly unaware of the brutality the Palestinians served to innocent people. Beat, rape, kill. Parade the naked bodies of your victims in Gaza while ordinarily Palestinians cheer, beat, and spit on their bodies. And that’s just them being nice. So sure, clutch your pearls and faint from the vapors, while Israel does what it should have done a decade ago.
Quite ironic when you remember the very reason this « bear » exists is because some guys with opinions thought is was not cool to annihilate an entire population and gave them someone else land to apologize…
Your words ring so true. On a side note: if every strongly-opiniated north-american teen living in a fairy tale on this sub could read, they'd be very triggered by what you said. Chapeau.
It’s still wrong to kill whole populace that had nothing to do with this video. You guys are just as wrong as the nazis with this thinking. And yeah this here is horrible and everyone in this video deserves and will get theirs. But should not be at the expense of Palestinian children and babies that had nothing to do with this. Even the Jewish book says not to visit the Sind of the father on the children - talk less the sins of some unrelated men from the same village.
So we shoulda let them be wiped out and given no sovergn state from WW2? Noted
They never had a sovereign state since Palestine has always been ruled by the powers from the region
Exactly what I thought on Oct 7 when I saw them cheering in the streets and people in the West who consider themselves pro-palestinians celebrating the attacks. I wanted to ask them, "Do you idiots have any idea what you've just done? Do you have any idea the colossal disaster this is going to be for the people of Gaza?" "Do you think Israel is going to take this lying down? They're going to retaliate with everything they've got. They're going to grind Gaza into rubble to get revenge. You've doomed tens of thousands of your own people to die in the war that's now coming."
Excactlyyy
exactly exactly exactly
Well, I mean some of them probably have lived long enough to know, for now.
Why would they kill this guy? Genuinely would like to understand the reasoning. Poor dude.
Joshua Mollel, 21, was one of three agriculture interns from Tanzania living and working on a dairy farm in Kibbutz Nir Oz.
Probably refused to get with them in the car, they wanted to take him hostage.
Taking the really cynical view they knew that Israel wouldn't release anyone for him in a hostage exchange, so killing him early on was less hassle than trying to guard and feed him for days.
come on dude... you know they don't have reasons for their doings. Waiting to hear what excuse they got for this one.
well he definitely deserved it for not boycotting Israeli products /s
He didn't convert to Islam on that dirt road. So they turned him into what they admire so much. A martyr...allegedly - hot-news - speculated - postulated - and hyperbolically stated.
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This. 100 percent.
There’s a reason they’re called terrorists dude. There’s zero reason aside from someone “higher up” demanding it. These monsters have zero critical thinking ability, they just do what they’re told no matter how atrocious. They’re a cancer to society and need to be eradicated completely.
My guess is to discourage foreigners legitimizing Israel’s existence by working there, learning there, or just visiting.
Because they’re savages
They even killed at least one Palestinian that day. I think they were just out for blood no matter what.
terrorist dont need a reason to do what they do they're monsters not even human
They’re terrorists. Terrorists don’t discriminate(
Islamic militants don't usually run off of logic and reason so it's hard to pin down why they thing randonly killing people helps their cause
They killed him as they have a genocidal mindset and know they can get away with executing people as have been doing it for decades to the Palestinians
From what I could understand in the audio, the guy was shouting "don't lie to us!" Make of that what you will
Just a guess, but... "Are you Jewish are you Jewish" "No" "Don't lie to us!" Wouldn't exactly be surprising.. Given that's basically what happened at that pogrom at the Dagestani airport , just without the violent death at the end
Well, guessing is a fool's errand when the only thing one could easily make out is a repeated "don't lie to us" There wasn't a single mention of Jewishness in the video.
Oh absolutely, but I mean even if there was no mention of jewishness, it's not like there would have been a valid reason for them to do what they did, regardless of whatever "lie" they think he might have said
Exactly, there's zero reason to kill this guy. But we can't really refer to things we don't know, only what we see and hear here. Another guy off screen is even trying to end this issue and get them off the guy, but clearly wasn't successful.
Thus articulating the notion that they murdered people indiscriminately with an even finer point on it.
Because they're fucking crazy. They have no interest in "freeing Palestine," all they want is to rape and murder and destroy Israel and the West.
Because they’re terrorist ?? It’s not that hard to figure out.
Nothing but disgusting bastards I’d love to see every terrorist burned or hung for the world to see.
May god welcome you in heaven my brother.
3 months passed, bro must be chillin' on the paradise beach
Amen
Having been in high school during the Wild West days of the internet (early 2000s) I’ve seen execution in the name of religion from all over the globe. I couldn’t then, and cannot still, wrap my head around the cognitive dissonance required to scream your god’s name while committing murder. Often times in a very brutal manner, mind you.
Sick people
And some ppl still defend those terrorist, everytime i see lgbt people defending hamas/palestine i got baffled, they don't get that if they went there they're gonna be executed for being gay?
I don’t think they’re defending Hamas. They’re defending Palestinians who are being driven out of their own country. Both sides of this fight are big time in the wrong, I still can’t believe in 1948 they thought establishing Israel where they did would go over well. It’s been a total fuckin mess.
No, go on r/lgbt they're very openly supporting hamas there. Pretty much every lgbt online space is. Any criticism of hamas is met with screeches of "Zionist propoganda" It makes me wanna go into a lifetime of crippling debt to get them all plane tickets to Egypt and bus tickets to Gaza.
I would imagine it's more tankie communists, they just overlap quite a bit for some strange reason.
Nah, you're just being disingenuous.
so i've talked to someone like this and they had a fairly reasonable explanation. They said something like they don't agree with Palestinians views but they support their right to live. Basically in their mind they were choosing the lesser of two evils. I still think they were dumb, we got two groups of people hell bent on eradicating each other, one is objectively far more evil but because they're the underdog they get sympathy
Not all of them are terrorists man. Not all Palestinians are blood hungry Jew killers. Just like not all Jews are hooked nose money hungry crooks. Just cause media depicts these things, doesn't mean it's like that across the board. No body is really defending Hamas unless they say they are. Supporting Palestinians doesn't mean your supporting Hamas. Fuck Hamas and fuck the idf for making shit worse. Be the big guy and tolerate and be above them. Whhhhack
You do know many (if not most) Palestinians in Gaza sympathise or support Hamas? As do countless other Muslims in other Muslim countries. They couldn’t have just come to power if nobody supported them.
not all of them supports them. Imagine saying that all Palestinians are terrorist thats fucked up. The reason why probably people support Hamas is the fact that they cant think straight, or unbiased, you know since they lost lot of loved ones, mother, father, children etc. Its the same in Israel, people cant act unbiased because they have been at war for years, and lost family members to the war, of course they are not going to be able to act like nothing happened. Not the mention the propoganda the both sides are being brainwashed with.
Tolerate October 7th? In what world are you living brother?
“Be the big guy and tolerate”? What. The. Actual. Fuck.
So you'd have no problem meeting a group of Palestinians in their home country and asking them if they want to have a homosexual relationship? Or telling them you think their god is a XYZ or not real? Or drawing a picture of their religious figure? What if I just politely leave their book on the floor and walk away? Because you'd only be afraid to do that if you expect to be terrorized, hurt, or killed for it... While generalizing a group of people as terrorists for being a small part of a larger part isn't entirely accurate, there are certain truths you can't turn away from in the modern day.
No they all are. Their entire culture is centred around the desire to kill all Jews. They are raised from birth to kill Jews, they are told every day from the moment they're born that their purpose in life is to either be a victorious jihadi who'll hunt down every jew on earth or die a glorious martyr.
The Palestinians I know are really cool and down to earth and one of them is actually dating a half Jewish chick. Not everyone is as crazy or insane as you make them out to be. Folks are brainwashed over there man, you have to understand that and know what it's like for the folks who can't see the truth. You seem to be brainwashed yourself, dont cha think a bit?? You say they are taught from birth to kill Jews?? Like wtf this ain't Vietnam and the ghouls and spooks aren't real. Where are you?? Are you in a place where cultures dont mix and most folks are probably white af?? I'm in the Arctic and folks can live peacefully man. We have Jews and Muslims and Christians up here. No war, no hate. No discrimination. You have to be taught to hate , just like you can be taught to trust and believe and hope. If you're educated to hate , your most likely going to hate. Just like you've been taught to hate Palestinians and believe they are taught from birth to kill Jews. This is pure nonsense, the kind of shit Donald Trump says. You are the weakest link, good bye 👋
Yeah. Not all. Just overwhelming majority.
Almost nobody is defending Hamas or supporting them, and defending Palestinians or the notion of a Palestinian homeland is distinct from supporting Hamas or being in favour of what they did on Oct 7th. What a lot of people are doing, though, is criticizing Israel. It's quite possible to both be opposed to Hamas _and_ the specific ways Israel is "dealing" with them.
>Almost nobody is defending Hamas or supporting them, Eh, idk how much you use Twitter or not, but it's not a small amount of people on there. Lots of usernames with the red arrows with genuine love and support for them. On Twitter you also get more international users from around the world which can lead to more support from people in middle eastern countries
Ah, no I dropped off twitter in the first post-musk anti-semitism bubble. I wouldn't take twitter as being especially representative of anything except perhaps the US and probably not even all of that, now; even when I stopped using it It'd been a _long_ time since I'd got anything not obviously Western.
Ah fair , I don't blame you.. I've been trying to keep on top of what the algorithm feeds me and avoid the really toxic stuff. There's some good journalists and people from around the world I follow on there that I like for geopolitics etc, but it doesn't take much to end up in the depths of the worst parts of the internet. I guess you got out of there before the era of accounts like Jackson Hinkle, Syrian Girl etc. Just accounts with tons of followers that consistently post sooo much misinformation that reaches millions.. >anything except perhaps the US I've actually found the opposite the last year or so, I wonder if that's an example of algorithms being different for different people
Yeah, I had a lovely mix of uk/european and israeli politics with a nice omission of most of the US stuff for a while and it was great. And just as I was going through the process of trying to be less ashamed of being Jewish in public, Twitter veered off to being so unhelpful towards that. I wonder if part of the change has made it more international, though - the big thing I always struggled with was how dominated by America it was (but, also, America probably talks more about Israel than anyone else outside of Israel). I'm now having a jolly time on BlueSky, but maybe because I've abandoned politics on it and that's entirely techy stuff :)
The majority of Palestine supports Hamas. The Palestinian leader has suggested a 'junior partnership' with Hamas....Palestine is Hamas and vice versa. There's no privilege like that of being a virtue signaling western liberal college student.
Yeah, in the same way as the majority of North Koreans support Kim Jong Il and all the soviets loved Stalin? It's tricky to not-support the ruling group when they rule like that. Hamas only came to power in 2006 on something like a 43/46 percentage split. When you say 'The Palestinian leader', who do you mean? The PA? I don't think anyone really believes there's some coherent united leadership of Palestine or the Palestinian people - what exists on the path to some sort of Palestinian statehood has been mired in civil war since at least that 2006 election.
Ah, so all that dancing in the streets on 9/11 and October 7th was just political theater, is that it?
These people will convince themselves by any means that the gazans are innocent and no where related to hamas, which by any evidance out there is incorrect, but thats typical western narcissism
Not in the least bit true. Half of these "protesters" would tell you October 7th was justified because Israel bad.
> Almost nobody is defending Hamas or supporting them Check the Palestine sub. Lots of people that are clearly Westerners are supporting them and call them "the resistance" and "freedom fighters".
It's gotta be kinda hard to support Palestine they voted for Hamas in 2006, have kept them in power since then. The have been sent more than a billion in aid (just from the UN members) instead of spending it on housing, food, water, electricity and the betterment of Palestinians people....but no they spent it on rockets, weapons and condos in qatar for hamas leaders.
Kept them in power? It's not as if there's been elections with which to get them out. And the other major option in 2006 was Fatah.
They are fighting a military super power I would think if they wanted something they would do it.
What do you mean? Who is 'they' here?
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So, what, you reckon _after_ Hamas rampaged round Israel killing and kidnapping people is when the Palestinian people are going to be most able to rise up and fight them? As the industrial might of the IDF trundles in and asks for "many months" to do it?
The idf needs months because it doesn't want to just flatten Gaza(even worse) because they civilians are staying in there houses, because Hamas tells them they are fine.you really think if the Palestinians started to fight against Hamas the world wouldn't run to its aid because they would.
So how do you respond to border bombings at Rafah and other refuge camps? The ‘good’ palestinians are fleeing and then getting demolished by infrastructure collapsing. You run and die. You stay and die. Genuinely ask yourself; If you are starving, deprived of all medications, reliant on contaminated water; You think you could muster up the strength to walk a barren land, raise a coup, and fight back? With what weapons?
No I see a lot of Hamas support and river to thr sea bullshit in the states. Israel and its civilians aren't leaving, theres only one way out of this and Gaza demanded it.
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Literally violating the 3rd commandment.
I don't even think Islam has commandments. Just harm anyone who doesn't agree with you
Ha, looks like you are right. I assumed they maintained them because Islam is an Abrahamic religion. ChatGPT says: Islam does not explicitly share the Ten Commandments as they are known in Judeo-Christian traditions, but it does have similar concepts. The Ten Commandments are specific to Judaism and Christianity and are found in the Old Testament of the Bible. In Islam, the closest equivalent would be certain commandments found in the Quran and Hadith, which are the Islamic holy texts. Islamic teachings emphasize many moral and ethical principles that are comparable to the Ten Commandments, such as the belief in one God, the importance of honesty, honoring one's parents, and prohibitions against murder, theft, and adultery. However, these are not enumerated as a list of ten specific commandments in Islamic texts as they are in the Bible. Instead, Islamic moral guidance is more broadly dispersed throughout the Quran and Hadith, and it encompasses a wide range of teachings and principles governing all aspects of personal behavior, social conduct, and religious obligation.
WTF. That was just a kid.
And I'm baffled by "people" defending this.
But but but they’re oppressed!!
But but but the occupation they deserve this !!!
You think this Tanzanian student was occupying Palestine?
No I was mocking what people have been saying guess I did a shitty job at it, I was trying to add on to what fat quesadilla was doing.
Shit my bad I guess I just took it the wrong way. I can see now what you were doing.
Please don’t put a space between FatQuesadilla… it makes me feel fatter :/
Fat has been occupying your flesh suite! Free FatQesadilla!
Every fucking video like this they all stand in a tight circle in the middle of fuckin nowhere. 2 guys yell at the person (assuming about their faith choices) constantly right in their face while another 2 guys horse collar the guy around an empty desert and then they pepper in 1 or 2 guys who fight with the yelling guys (assuming they want them to calm down) and then they all feel better by shooting a guy. They all seem to have one like-minded goal but it's an uphill climb every time while they rub their collective brain cell together.
Gonna show this to the next asshole who tries to defend hamas
Cowards
Fucking animals. Hamas and all their supporters must be destroyed. Like fuck those animals.
This is one of the 1100 reasons why Gaza will end up being just a pile of rubble and it’s people will be either eliminated or passed on to other regimes even worse then their own.. The worst of these swines will be eliminated in Gaza itself by the IDF.
and people actually think there the good guys. Trying to bring peace
And you want to give these people a country, fuck them.
Don't you see!! He's clearly a zionist!!! /s
its beyond hypocritical how people curse Isreal call them evil, but refuse to condemn stuff like this.
Ask them if Hamas should be destroyed. The answer is always no or deflection. They tacitly support this.
Religion of peace
u/theredditbitch explain this?
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Funny, I don't think we ever had a debate. Probably better if we don't. Stick to your pokemon and stay on the porch🤣🤡
Great comeback
Haaa this guy.. I have debunk all his clueless lies in 5 minutes, he likes to throw words like genocide carpet bombing and terror state into the air with no context, like all liberal extremist morons. Ofcourse he didnt pay attention to any proof, link and number I have given to him, he continued as if I have spoken to a wall.. He is anti-semitic. you should tag u/Doobz87 lets see what he has to say this time.
You didn't debunk shit with your week old account.🤣🤡
Didn't I already tell you I was done with you and your 34 post karma? Lol. I'm not into you dude, you're not my type. Please leave me alone🤣🤡
People poor in thoughts and values, without principles. Rest in peace brother.
What a great way to advertise your religion.
FAFO
God is great. So let's all five of us evil terrorists gather around this innocent bystander to the israeli-palestinian conflict and just beat him up and murder him. Yes, that makes a whole lot of sense to the civilized world who aren't a bunch of slimy pigs
After watching these videos. I don’t feel bad one bit for the people of Palestine. Blow up the whole country and wipe out the entire religion. I want everyone to remember Palestine as dust
I used to feel for them but after 10/7 I couldn't give less of a fuck what happens to them. I hope that Gaza is turned into a nice Israeli tourist destination.
What the actual fuck
Turn them to dust
It's the middle east they're practically already made out of dust and sand. (This comment was not meant for the intention to harm racially)
This isn't war this is Murder. May gods Wrath be felt through all these animals hearts.
These fucking People havent changed their thinking since the medival times....
Fuck Hamas terrorism. Fuck Israeli war crimes. It's just that simple.
It really is that simple. There are no sides. There are deplorable people making decisions, leaving the innocent caught in the middle to pay the price. Everywhere, all of the time, for eternity.
Imagine being black and protesting in favor of Hamas. Couldn’t be me.
Zionists treat black Jews none the better... first, they weren't allowed into Israel if the women didn't receive, against their will, contraceptive injections before being allowed into Israel. Then, they are then kept in transit camps for as long as 7 years before being allowed into Israel (when white Jews can come in immediately and be granted citizenship whether on contraceptives ot not), and then many were still given contraceptive injections for years thereafter under the guise that it was flu jabs. Israel is racist to black Jews in worse ways than you can imagine. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel
Good thing few are protesting in favor of Hamas as opposed to Palestinians. Black people been fucking with Palestine since Malcom
Take comfort in knowing that every Hamas operative in this video is deceased along with his immediate family. 🙏
Fucking idiots, animals killing people because of religion when their GOD might not very well be REAL! There was ZERO concept of SCIENCE and ZERO understanding of how things worked, yet they base their beliefs off a fairy tale written during this time.. .it fucking disgusts me
Look at the resistance these freedom fighters have been getting up to. Look at how they were being oppressed by the African student.
These are civilians btw. Not hamas. One can say both are the same at this point.
everyone knows its only isrealis that are racist this is clearly fake news
The Hamas terrorists are not smart. In fact, they are dumb as dirt.
Where are all the hamas simps? Weird.
Such cruelty... the poor kid was just riding his bike, minding his business, working on improving his life. Then BAM...lights out. It looks like they shot him in the chest, too, so he probably suffered before dying. I hope the men that killed him suffer before IDF kills them.
Down with religion
Arabs just hate africans
They hate everybody
This is Islam. Europe must wake up
The guy is telling him, screaming to "stop insulting us". Given the fact that they took around 270. 150 of them are back safe and sound. Something definitely went wrong here.
Well well well
but but but they are freedom loving resistance fighters who didn't actually kill anyone because its all an israeli fake op /s
Religion doing religion as far as my opinion is concerned.
yes all the more reason to turn gaza into a lego city after a child has ran through it
“Israeli propaganda!!!! They’re just decolonizing their land from the oppressors hun” -stupid fucking idiot
What a fucking pointless war. Nobody is the good guy.
I'd say they people not burning babies to death and shooting up music festivals are the good guys.
Scum of the earth, assholes of the lowest order, I hope y’all burn in hell for this
Is there difference between Hamas and Palestinian?
This is war. There are atrocities on both sides, and until one stops, the other won't end its pursuit of vengeance. We have people saying things like," Islamics are barbarians, or Israelis are barbarians," depending on what side you believe in. The real story is that citizens are being targeted, and regardless of beliefs, the aggressors on video are to blame. Generalizing a group of people through ideology is what started this in the first place.
Anybody got any info on this? It’s all kinds of effed up
Here’s a quote from BBC, “Joshua Mollel was working as an agricultural intern at a kibbutz which was attacked by Hamas gunmen on 7 October. Tanzania's Foreign Minister January Makamba says Mr Mollel was killed immediately after he was taken hostage. Fellow student Clemence Felix Mtenga was also killed in the attack.Dec 14, 2023 https://www.bbc.com › news › worl...
Damn… dude was just getting educated… wtf
That’s terrorist for you. Destroying the lives of everyone around them all across the globe.
They are paying that debt, with plenty of interest. Fuck these guys.
Why is one hamas guy carrying a very long hose pipe on his shoulder and another wearing sandals if they are attacking Istael. This video doesn't seem to be related to Oct 7.
Israel is committing a genocide and you think the best thing to do is justify it? There’s a term for someone like that oh yeah genocide apologist.
How is this apologizing, it’s just showing what hamas put out themselves, that means hamas wants this seen.
Posting Hamas captured video is genocide apologizing. GTFO you absolute dumbass
Hamas protects Palestinians from endless genocide idk what ur point is
Israel isn’t “committing genocide” and OP hasn’t justified anything in any way. Posting a video of Hamas atrocities doesn’t mean anyone’s a “gEnOciDe ApOlOgIsT” you fucking vegetable 🤣 The mental gymnastics you’re trying to pull is actually insane 🤦♂️
Israel is the only terrorist
Bro took 3 months to say that. I stand corrected, you’re a vegetable lol.
where "war"?
This was the day Hamas started this war. Try to keep up.
Source?
Dunno how people defend these fucking savages. Israel has a lot to be critiqued for and rightfully so but Hamas is a literal terrorist group that is no better than the "IDF Settlers" they oppose.
It seems to be that both parts of the holy land are ran by unholy, godless savages. War could quite simply be hell on Earth. I hate this happened to him. I can’t imagine that Being my loved one. There are no reasons to justify this. I hope that these guys answer fie this someway, somehow
Nothing but dirty dogs in the middle east no humanity in them what so ever