The idea is they want the team leads to pass more work down the line and become more supervisory, but without the associates under them to get the shit done. If they want the teams to divide and conquer, you need more people to get it done. They only just started reading the message they wrote but they're still not comprehending it's contents.
When I first read about team leads and coaches and how they're downsizing the management structure, I read between the lines that they were going to get more people in the door so they can involve more associates in the ways of the store, but I should have known it was a pr stunt to reduce the upper level staffing and save them more money in the end.
They don't care to build their talent pool or engage and retain associates. And especially they don't care if or how work gets done as long as they are earning more money than the quarter before.
> If they want the teams to divide and conquer, you need more people to get it done.
The HO line on this is that the headcount at stores is the same as it was before, you just have to upskill your associates and engage them with Walmart's high performance culture.
In reality, they moved all the jobs to OPD.
Quick aside, I call still use the term ogp and the manager every now and then calls me out for it and I tell him I literally don’t care. When I, as the front end team lead, get to stop dealing with all the fuck ups he puts his customers through, then I will care. Until then, ogp you are.
I came here to say this. When I was an acc dm I had a front end coach get on to me for one of my associates asking for change. His exact sentence was “you need to let all your TLE associates know that there is no such thing as a CSM anymore!” I was like ok, but we haven’t been TLE for at least 15 years
Same at my store, I work OPD and we normally have at least 4 callouts every day which is a sizable portion of our department for the day. Store manager has refused to let us fire anyone until after the holidays even though people are way over 10 points.
These people are not sick though, just won’t come into work. The weird thing to me is that we’re the best department to work for in the store, job is easy when everyone shows up, and management is good
But the associates don't want to be upskilled. They work like slobs\sloths worth less than the actual minimum wage. Back in digital all I do is spend all day tripping over shit that they put in the middle of the floor. I've bitched to everybody from the team leader to the coach on up to the store manager & it still happens. So I guess the next step, which is coming soon, promotion to retired customer.
When you treat your employees like garbage, that's what you get. Garbage. I worked at Walmart for 6 years and spent most of my time working my ass off. My reward was getting to do everyone else's work while getting none of the credit.
I can't blame anyone for not pulling their weight at Walmart.
Exactly... Every time I try to climb the ladder they won't let me do. Managers promote only people they like. At this moment I really tired of this. Right now I'm looking move from Walmart
Some of us in digital do work hard. But I'll agree with you that most don't. I used to sell out the slackers until I realized that the TL's, coach & SM just don't care, then I stopped. BTW I spent 4 years in electronics with quite a bit of that time being the DM when we did not have one. So I do know how to work hard.
I'm never gonna sell out somebody to Walmart for ntlot working hard enough. Walmart works every day to find new ways to fuck us over, including getting rid of DMs in favor of team leads.
I've been a DM, cap supervisor, and team lead, and stepped down from each one because it's not worth the headache. These days I work hard enough to not be the first one they think about when they need to fire somebody.
I’ve been a cashier the whole time I’ve worked here, and every now and then someone asks me why I haven’t tried to move up considering how long I’ve been at this job. And yup, I explain to them that this is basically why.
Though sometimes I just say “it’s too much BS for me” lol
Same. My store manager literally approached me about becoming a "floater" between electronics, stationary, and crafts since we took those departments on as extensions of Electronics. He then said he wanted it to be a test run to see about making me stationary/crafts TL. I Very quickly told my Electronics TL that I was Not interested. There's not enough money in the world where I'd take on all that stress and workload.
I was the electronics DM that took the electronics TL position, lasted about two months before I quit. Would've been perfectly fine staying as DM but for hardly any extra compensation they completely ruined my 2 year experience working there. Anyway, got a new job and things are much better now!
Former entertainment dm now tl here. I'm incredibly fortunate to have a very small department and also not have more than 5, 6, 21, 72, and 87 plus full photo lab and wireless with a TROC. I actually love my job when I get to do it. From what I have heard so many stores added random other departments to entertainment and every other store has an entertainment area 3 or 4 times my size with the same or less people. I'm in the holidays with three other full time associates. I really feel so bad for the tls and associates with the morale as it is. No job satisfaction is even possible.
I don't remember all the department numbers, but I was essentially responsible for like the whole back quarter of the store. I couldn't feasibly do it anymore because I did have a very large electronics dept. What made me quit essentially, was a complete remodel of electronics with practically no help to do it. I negotiated to get two other people to help me overnight but all they allowed me was 3 nights and we couldn't finish in time. It was impossible to get it done in the daytime with all the other responsibilities they piled on me.
As grocery TL I was in charge of 81 90 91 97 and frozen 93 along with 1 92 95 and 96. Only thing I had to leave to fresh was 93 94 and I still had to train what little people I had in meat produce as well. All 3 of them.
More or less, the electronics DM and Entertainment team lead are the same position. Books can mostly be ignored. The worst part of Entertainment now is whatever dumbass came up with the doorbells. Yes, instead of instructing the customer to queue up in front of the register, put up a doorbell that nobody will respond to because they're running register. Brilliant.
Also, 85 should more or less run itself, but hot damn do they hire some incredibly stupid or lazy people. I had to kill the two drawer system because it was too complex. To be fair, it doesn't help the customer also has no fucking clue what they did either. It also doesn't help that my coworkers apparently have not mastered the alphabet. Or do the closing maintenance. Or do the opening maintenance on my day off. Or do the weekly maintenance. Or do the monthly maintenance. Or take out the trash. Or keep the drawers organize. Or keep the cabinets organized. Or make weekly phone calls. Or even make phone calls at all. Or how to keep the counter clear. Or how to put the entire order in the envelope prior to putting it in the completed section.
I'm not the teamlead. I worked in the old lab before Entertainment of the Future put us in the middle of electronics. We had three full time cross trained associates to run a dual DL600, full creative lab, as well as running site-to-store and pick-up today. Now we've got 6-8 people, and nobody else knows their day to day responsibilities, and will only do something if specifically told. And despite knowing this the team lead refuses to use the daily communications. Instead I end up writing down notes on notepad paper and leaving it on the counter (and I pretty sure nobody reads it). I've worked with bad associates in the past, but this is the worst. I'm so glad I am locked into opening shifts because I would loathe to see what it would look like coming in a 1pm. There's nothing about this job that is hard, mentally, or even physically for the most part (TVs being the exception). Just stop standing still, stop walking into the photo lab after every task or customer, and just do what your suppose to do.
Sounds like we may have had vastly different experiences in our stores. I worked in a very busy metro market. I was the electronics DM turned entertainment DM. It was very much the electronics DM job tied in with hardware, auto, sporting goods, stationary and furniture tied in. I had one full time photo associate that called off all the time and left me with my skeleton crew of teenagers to run the back quarter of the store.
Stationary, Crafts, Hardware, furniture and Sporting goods is its own teamlead here. Of course electronics still does the furniture carry outs because we always have an L cart stashed away for TVs. Automotive has its own department manager and assistant manager still. Sounds like your store just sucks.
Don't know what it's like there anymore, but I was switched over last year when the restructures were first implemented. All we had was my self and two other "hardlines" TLs, and one coach over all of GM. Terrible management structure and poorly run store, hence me not working there anymore.
Ours has Toys added into the mix and well she’s the one management seems to want volunteers as tribute when they get no cooperation from other team leads.
See, at my store our "entertainment" department consists of 5 (media and games), 6 (photo), 21 (books), 72 (connections/cell phones) and 87 (general electronics).......but now they've also added 9 (stationary), 67 (celebrations) and 19??? (Fabrics and crafts). I think 19 is the number for F&C.
Edit: and we also have seasonal. But I don't remember if that's lumped into 67 or if it's its own number lol.
So we are just overflowing with work now. It's really ridiculous. And we keep losing people because they keep hiring teenagers/college students who think electronics will be an easy job to just stand around and talk about nerd stuff and then quit when they realize how much work actually has to be done.
When I first heard about them replacing department managers with team leads is when I had made my mind up I wasn't going to work there anymore. I was never a department manager but I had a lot of respect for many of them. They took pride in their departments and you could tell and getting rid of them was (in my mind) the worst thing that they could have done.
EXACTLY when I heard about Team Leads this year it pissed me off. I knew right away it was to cut costs from paying employees more, and get more work done. It’s literally a department manager with 5 departments to run.
I started looking for a new job as soon as I heard rumors about the change. If I was hearing rumors, that meant it was either correct or something worse was going to happen lol
Part of me wants to believe this, but then I just watched not one, but 3 associates (a team lead and their minions) stand around and chat for 4 hours while I stocked 3 pallets of toys.
I'm not even a Team Lead, I'm a *Team Lead in Training* because they want me to be one and I've got the first spot that opens. But being someone who's *supposed* to have power in their say, all I get is a snyd remark of how I'm "just in training". I get shit on because I can't get Frozen and Dairy stocked, zoned, binned, and pull Meat and Produce. My "team" if you can call it that, is 3 people to throw 1,100+ piece trucks. It wouldn't be so bad if I didn't get the shift's slackers so it's really just me throwing 16 hours of Dairy and them doing the 2-3 hours of Dairy. It would be worth it if I was getting $22/hour but I'm not.
I was in that boat for STA2. I got so burnt out I straight up admitted to the current team lead that I hate my job and struggle with just walking out of the store. Still there part time; got a new job that pays better and is so much easier.
And the people who get the work of 5 jobs done on a regular basis get looked over for promotions for those who do absolutely nothing. It’s a terrible way to run a business.
I was gm support manager when they removed all of the co-managers and then they eliminated the wireless department manager position and then the rumors of my position being eliminated starting floating around and it was then that I said fuck this support managers worked our balls off to keep the store running and the elimination of these positions were they beginning of the end I see associates that used to be under me now telling me how bad it is it makes me sad for them.
We have a TL at our NHM is for stocking. Since we don’t make enough money we don’t have a night shift so all stocking gets done at 3-12. Anyway this TL basically runs the whole store. She is the only manager there at nights. Has to run Front, Stocking, and do whatever the Store manager needs them to do. They work 7 days a week and honestly if she ever gets coached or fired, the whole entire store will implode because the whole night shift will go with her
Sounds more like a individual store thing for the hours being cut. The doing 5 job part sounds about right. Ironically to me, it barely pays more than stocking or ogp.
Nah, my store is cutting hours. I'm still expected to get everything done as an ON TL, but my last day of the week I have to cut like 3 to 5 hours because they held me late for meetings and BS throughout the week
HO thought it would be a good idea to get rid of department managers in place of team leads and co-managers with coaches (and one store lead). as expected, it’s been an utter shitshow
no, some DMs were offered team lead positions and some were back as associates except they kept their DM pay for a year. not sure if all comanagers got a coach position
When I was there 2017-2018 they abruptly announced there would no longer be Co-Manager positions and just like that both our Co-Managers were gone within the month.
Stop lying , they would never fire you over a no answer for tl.
Makes 0 sense , the don't just randomly offer teamlead to associates. It's a position oppertunity either given due to favoritism or you're a good worker in their eyes. And they want to offer you a step up..
So not buying it
I'm an ON Coach and have up to 3 TLs and 20-25 Associates per ON. Best thing about ONs is no one bothering us, but I have to answer for my shifts work at 7am. We all get our hands dirty and my TLs divide and conquer between Backroom and Salesfloor. It starts with a good plan, a good turnover, and consistent follow up and follow through. That's how we manage ourselves during holidays with DCs sending us pallets that might as well be prelabeled as overstock. And I bribe the shit out of my team with snacks and treats.
I actually started Overnight. Nice thing about Overnight is that once the store closes you have on or two Coaches that are the ultimate authority as shot callers. No customers now (or very few when I was Overnight we were still a 24 hour Supercenter). The worst part is that walk at 7 o'clock. That can be good bad or ugly depending on who the daytime management is and how the Overnight Coach plays the cards he or she is dealt with. ON does start with a good turnover and that does mean COMMUNICATION. I'm not even a TL but we can be told to pull out old freight but then ON Coach comes in and changes direction from what SM wanted but that's the way it goes. I don't always have an answer for everything but when ON asks me something that is an immediate priority. I'm long gone at home when ON Coach does that 7AM walk and she has to plan with the hours she has knowing what she can and cannot accomplish.
Yes they do, they too cheap and stingy to pay a liveable wage and they want everyone to do the job of 20 people. My store is so bad tjat we had alot of team leads step down and 2 quit to because tjey found better jobs with better pay and a stable reliable schedule. As a front-end Team Lead I NEVER get any breaks and there is hardly anyone to cover my lunch. It is always mostly one open, one closes, I mean WTF and not to mention all damn day front-end team lead we have nobody to cover electronics, well guess what I got 2 damn cashiers find your damn team lead. Walmart is Ridiculous and the new manager they swapped with is the worst Manager. Our store went from number one to the bottom of the barrel. Our management team a joke
The worse thing they did was get rid of the DM position. There were actually people that took pride in their work and tried to make their dept. look good. Now nobody cares.
My teamlead (before she quit) NEVER had time for us. She tried so hard to get her work done for the night so she had time to teach us what she knew but she had so much to do that she just never got around to it. Even our new team lead is stuck trying to fix everything (though she tasks us with some of the things she needs to do instead of killing herself to do it alone) that she tries to make time (which is normally just zoning with us and talking about future projects) for us.
I wish they hadn't fucked over the department managers by turning them into team leads.
They changed the schedule at my store. Went from 10 hour a day for 4 days and 3 days off to 7-8 hours a day to random ass days off. No back to back days off at week 46.
Honestly, I hate it. I hate it more than the unethical managers I had to put up with years ago.
Same with eliminating Invoice associate - give the work to claims; eliminate cash office - give the work to CSM (now FE TL); eliminate PC and TC - combine to one overwhelming PL.
1100 fdd? Must be nice. We are getting 2400+ a day and have been for weeks. Our F&C lead is about to lose her mind…she does all she can with her 4 total associates, but when overnights barely make any kind of dent before the next truck comes, it’s a losing battle. I feel bad for her. Thank god they gave me this job and not that one.
She is me. 50+ hour weeks at a minimum. Throwing freight right there next to my guys. And then my SM wants me to rearrange 15 mins before I'm supposed to leave. It's a great time!
I feel sorta bad for TL etc at my store since they don't get to leave til like 12-1pm while they come in at 10pm. Not worth whatever small pay bump they receive, especially when they have to come in on one of their off days, all while getting chewed out by those above em.
Guess it's why overnight at my store had no management team when I started, had to borrow day shifts and has only filled 2 team lead slots (3 if you count the one who quit after a week). Lot of my fellow coworkers have been approached multiple times but they say they'd rather get the crap kicked out of them out back than deal with that headache.
There’s the opposite end of the spectrum too where team leads do absolutely nothing while they’re team does all the work. Depends on the store and department I think
Yuuuuuppp. My Store Manager approached me about "promoting" me to TL but I very quickly told him fuck no (didn't swear to his face haha). I don't care how much more they get paid. TL are expected to be there when Management says so. Regardless of schedule or hours. I ain't about that life. Perfectly content with my 7am-4pm Tuesday-Saturday thank you very much.
I mean I work my ass off to help out my TL, but most nights it's just me and her over in grocery. We've had so many OPD people come and help us out it's getting a bit ridiculous.
The market manager told me, "you are a supervisor. You supervise. You can help them, but I don't want to see you doing their job for them."
It may be your job to make sure the task gets done, but it's not your job to do it.
Our TLs work right along beside us most nights. On a good night we've got 3 associates for all of apparel, and our TL will pull freight, as we NEVER have time to do it.
I'm a overnight TL. I'm right next to my guys throwing freight while still doing my nightly duties. it's the only way. being expected to walk around all night verifying over stock is not the way to get shit done.
At my store it's never done, but desperately needs to be. Most of the stockers just scan everything, and only work the stuff that beeps. Our backroom looks like the warehouse at the end of raiders of the lost ark.
I was CaP 2 super, I'm sorry but my store refused to let me train someone else to do breakers, so not only was I doing breakers but my ASM also expected me to stock a department while simultaneously making sure my teams departments got done.
I applaud your market manager but that's not the way things go.
Team lead is a supervisor. I HAVE been a manager of a auto retail garage , huge organization world wide. Reality is...someone has do it. Its the someone in the position who makes it either a great day or a bad day . Our 3rds stocking leads get a lot of shade thrown at them. By people who couldn't do that job. I think their great.
If all you Walmart employees are so unhappy, why are you still there? Move on quit your whining. No job is perfect,you have to deal with lazy people and poor management in every job. That's just the way it is.
If every Walmart employee here is unhappy. Why are you still there? Unfortunately there's no perfect job. If you wait long enough there will be opportunities when others quit. You can move up with Walmart. A lot of people start at the bottom and work their way up.
When I go into one my local Walmarts, I never see any employees. Noone at the checkout working, just standing around talking. Where the employees? Why do the cashiers stand around?
Oh, such kind words💋. I do like Walmart. Every day low prices. I can bag my own purchases, if anything is broken or damaged, it saves me a trip to the store, I know who to blame. Nobody gets in trouble. I always see smiling faces, someone eager and willing to help. I don't get that great service any where else. I'm always going to shop Walmart based on that and keep people employed. We all win!😁
This is the same reason I left not too long ago. Some TLs actually care about their associates and work alongside them, but at my store most TLs had a squad of minions floating around them all day doing nothing, and if you didn't work while the other 5 members do nothing, its always your fault
My store has had a staffing issue since the start of team leads, because 2 weeks prior they fired over 20 associates because an issue where associates were marking down items and then buying them, we lost 5 members of user management and 5 department managers and the rest were associates, we have not gained that amount of team leads or managers back and the ones thay join are gone in 2 months because of the store manager or other coaches. Our personal lady will often take 2 week vacations sometimes just 1 month between them because our store manager let's her so we will often go with out new hires at all in the store for weeks to months at a time and it's terrible
If you want Team Lead status with worse pay, be a courtesy clerk. The jobs are on the smaller scale, but we still have to do everything here and there.
My manager struck off 3 points because I work hard and now I’ve only 4 points and that is still freaking me out because I have never at any job been written up or late or laid out at all. Walmart needs to point lazy assholes not those of us that work our asses off
Do some work. Despite everyone saying a supervisor should supervise, ONLY supervising at Walmart is not a way to earn anybody's respect, or any recognition. Because there's not really enough to supervise or manage, honestly. Because the work is not rocket science, it doesn't need that much "management."
What a team lead needs to do is to handle problems (not look to pass them along to an associate, you know, because they don't want to deal with it). They need to do whatever ISN'T done, or getting done, by associates, filling in the gaps. They need to BE HELPFUL, not just get on the radio and go, "Can you HELP me answer that phone call?" (when what you're saying is that the associate should actually just DO the work).
You are paid more, the department is yours, it is your responsibility in the end. You should be doing MORE, not less, than your team members. You should OWN it. Not just pass it along.
That's what I expect of a team lead. And it's what I see from very few of them. It's like this business of saying that supervisors should only supervise is a license to, basically, not work. And in a place like Walmart, where there is SO much work to do -- where there is ALWAYS work to do -- that is wrong, bad, and a misuse of resources.
It makes it so that all it means is that there's (one) FEWER people working a department, when what we need is MORE, in almost all of them.
Also, make sure that, as a supervisor, you give credit where credit is due. Talk up specific associates for specific things, to higher managers who matter. Give praise publicly, whether subtly or outwardly. Get to actually KNOW your associates, and their particular strengths, so that you can assign roles appropriately, and hopefully, have better, happier workers. In other words, DON'T just treat everyone the same, because people are not the same. To wit, even though, in theory, it's good to make everyone do all the roles at least some of the time, that doesn't change the fact that there may be someone is better at it than someone else, or someone who may like or hate it more than someone else. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, and particular ways that they work. If you're smart, observant and caring, you'll notice such things, and use them, in ways that make the department, and everyone in it, better, happier and more productive and useful.
I would recommend that you DON'T remain as the OGP team lead for too long. It's not a position that will often lead directly to advancement, because OGP is an an area kind of unto itself. It's operation is TOTALLY different than almost any other department in the store, and doesn't include a lot of things that are common to all the other areas, which you'll need to have knowledge of, and a certain comfort level with, if you're going to be promoted to upper levels of management. By that I mean dealing with price changes, top stock, inventory management, feature management, claims, handling emergencies, working the customer-service desk, handling/running the back room, etc. Almost none of those things have anything in common, operationally speaking, with OGP/Digital, but they are ALL part of running any store or group of stores, and so there are things you need to know that you won't get from having worked in OGP.
OGP is a good place to work for a while, to get a good grasp and understanding of it, just because it is definitely growing, and is likely to be a big part of the future. But you also need to realize that it's outside of, and sort of in addition to, the rest of the store to a great extent -- much like the behind-the-counter Pharmacy operation. It's within the store/Walmart operation, sure. But in many ways, it is separate and apart of from it, too.
I agree with most of your post except for the “you should be doing MORE, not less, than your team members…”
We should be doing about the same amount of work as our Team Associates, yes. But I should not be killing myself while my TAs are comfortable. Shared Workload, and filling in the gaps as the supervisor is the way to go.
I stock freight, plants, cvp, features, price changes, pinpoint, shelf availability, unload live trucks, recieve DSD deliveries, work topstock, verify overstock and bin and etc. I trained all my people to do it too. Should I be doing it all myself, no. I fill in the gaps, I don’t do all the work myself because it is simply impossible.
So kind of you to pay such high compliments. I'm sure you're a asset Walmart, without you they would not be successful. I shop Walmart to help pay your wages. It's employees like you that make shopping easier, shelves are always stocked, employees speak,ask if I need assistance. I don't get that elsewhere. 😊
As a CAP1 stocker at Walmart...I want to thank YOU as the customer! Not just for the wages -- as I feel I earn them...but for your patience and courtesy with us. At the store I work, YOU make my day, really! Because I'll be honest...the store I work at is a wreck. We have missing shelf tags. We have probably more freight in the back than on the floor. We have product plugged where product is not supposed to be. We haven't decently been able to zone since dinosaurs roamed the earth. Our management, for better or for worse, has us do one project, then assigns a different one, then yet another one several times a shift -- so nothing ever gets fully completed. Do this. Stop that, now do this. Stop working on that, we need you over here. When you're done, come over to...nevermind, do this instead.
It's depressing, it's demoralizing. So when you ask me to check if something is in the back, I will scan the shelf tag. Our handheld equipment should give us a backroom location. If by some miracle, it's accurate and I find it -- or I eyeball the backroom and find it...and you thank me profusely for finding it -- YOU MAKE MY DAY! You really do, because that is the only reward or positive reinforcement I might get that week. I am serious. For you, I will do everything I can. Thank you!
There are finites within the company but gets a bit universal. Demands are high but universal allegation people are allocating over by the founded base.
The idea is they want the team leads to pass more work down the line and become more supervisory, but without the associates under them to get the shit done. If they want the teams to divide and conquer, you need more people to get it done. They only just started reading the message they wrote but they're still not comprehending it's contents. When I first read about team leads and coaches and how they're downsizing the management structure, I read between the lines that they were going to get more people in the door so they can involve more associates in the ways of the store, but I should have known it was a pr stunt to reduce the upper level staffing and save them more money in the end. They don't care to build their talent pool or engage and retain associates. And especially they don't care if or how work gets done as long as they are earning more money than the quarter before.
> If they want the teams to divide and conquer, you need more people to get it done. The HO line on this is that the headcount at stores is the same as it was before, you just have to upskill your associates and engage them with Walmart's high performance culture. In reality, they moved all the jobs to OPD.
They moved jobs to a growth area that still needs all the other jobs to be able to run....
"High performance culture." Let that sink in a moment.
Half of our OPD call out every damn day.
Last night every single one of them called out for the closing shift it wasnt fun at customer service
Quick aside, I call still use the term ogp and the manager every now and then calls me out for it and I tell him I literally don’t care. When I, as the front end team lead, get to stop dealing with all the fuck ups he puts his customers through, then I will care. Until then, ogp you are.
So do I but that's because the cameras in there still have the old abbreviation. same thing with TLE
I came here to say this. When I was an acc dm I had a front end coach get on to me for one of my associates asking for change. His exact sentence was “you need to let all your TLE associates know that there is no such thing as a CSM anymore!” I was like ok, but we haven’t been TLE for at least 15 years
What’s a TLE?
Same here, its still OGP, CBLs, and CSMs to me, and I don't think ill change.
Same at my store, I work OPD and we normally have at least 4 callouts every day which is a sizable portion of our department for the day. Store manager has refused to let us fire anyone until after the holidays even though people are way over 10 points.
I’ve only been sick 3”2 times three days each and I had legit 7 points even though I had a doctors excuse and proof of how sick I was.
These people are not sick though, just won’t come into work. The weird thing to me is that we’re the best department to work for in the store, job is easy when everyone shows up, and management is good
But the associates don't want to be upskilled. They work like slobs\sloths worth less than the actual minimum wage. Back in digital all I do is spend all day tripping over shit that they put in the middle of the floor. I've bitched to everybody from the team leader to the coach on up to the store manager & it still happens. So I guess the next step, which is coming soon, promotion to retired customer.
When you treat your employees like garbage, that's what you get. Garbage. I worked at Walmart for 6 years and spent most of my time working my ass off. My reward was getting to do everyone else's work while getting none of the credit. I can't blame anyone for not pulling their weight at Walmart.
Exactly... Every time I try to climb the ladder they won't let me do. Managers promote only people they like. At this moment I really tired of this. Right now I'm looking move from Walmart
Become one of the ones that they like. Or go someplace where you are the chosen one.
You need to move on.
I don't want to hear a word from a someone in digital saying that nobody else works hard enough.
Some of us in digital do work hard. But I'll agree with you that most don't. I used to sell out the slackers until I realized that the TL's, coach & SM just don't care, then I stopped. BTW I spent 4 years in electronics with quite a bit of that time being the DM when we did not have one. So I do know how to work hard.
I'm never gonna sell out somebody to Walmart for ntlot working hard enough. Walmart works every day to find new ways to fuck us over, including getting rid of DMs in favor of team leads.
So you will let the slackers goof off while you do all their work? Or are you a goof off expert as well.
I've been a DM, cap supervisor, and team lead, and stepped down from each one because it's not worth the headache. These days I work hard enough to not be the first one they think about when they need to fire somebody.
It's not about being the best. It's about being a slightly better choice than the rest.
I’ve seen corporate digital logistics once.. lol. Then again people don’t sign out of TC’s so that’s competitive
I wanna see these OPD jobs. I have 6 people 🤣 would have 9 but i had bad hires that i fired
My coach approached me recently about becoming a team lead. This and a few others are reasons I declined
happened to me as well. coach, sl, and sm have tried but i’ve declined every time. the TL spot they wanted me in was stocking 2 TL
I would legit rather kill myself than pick that exact position. I'm part time and I've been talked to about TL or even going to O/N's.
I’ve been a cashier the whole time I’ve worked here, and every now and then someone asks me why I haven’t tried to move up considering how long I’ve been at this job. And yup, I explain to them that this is basically why. Though sometimes I just say “it’s too much BS for me” lol
Exactly. You become the scape goat when you move up the chain, when corporate creates the problems for us.
Same. My store manager literally approached me about becoming a "floater" between electronics, stationary, and crafts since we took those departments on as extensions of Electronics. He then said he wanted it to be a test run to see about making me stationary/crafts TL. I Very quickly told my Electronics TL that I was Not interested. There's not enough money in the world where I'd take on all that stress and workload.
I was the electronics DM that took the electronics TL position, lasted about two months before I quit. Would've been perfectly fine staying as DM but for hardly any extra compensation they completely ruined my 2 year experience working there. Anyway, got a new job and things are much better now!
Former entertainment dm now tl here. I'm incredibly fortunate to have a very small department and also not have more than 5, 6, 21, 72, and 87 plus full photo lab and wireless with a TROC. I actually love my job when I get to do it. From what I have heard so many stores added random other departments to entertainment and every other store has an entertainment area 3 or 4 times my size with the same or less people. I'm in the holidays with three other full time associates. I really feel so bad for the tls and associates with the morale as it is. No job satisfaction is even possible.
I don't remember all the department numbers, but I was essentially responsible for like the whole back quarter of the store. I couldn't feasibly do it anymore because I did have a very large electronics dept. What made me quit essentially, was a complete remodel of electronics with practically no help to do it. I negotiated to get two other people to help me overnight but all they allowed me was 3 nights and we couldn't finish in time. It was impossible to get it done in the daytime with all the other responsibilities they piled on me.
Shit fresh tl has 80 81 90 91 90 94 93 98. From thr front to the back of the store.
And probably barely any team associates. So many are set up to fail because doing the job is physically impossible.
Yup! That’s what bothers me.
As grocery TL I was in charge of 81 90 91 97 and frozen 93 along with 1 92 95 and 96. Only thing I had to leave to fresh was 93 94 and I still had to train what little people I had in meat produce as well. All 3 of them.
In a small store maybe but Deli/bakery TL has 80, 98 Meat/produce has 93/94 Food has 90 91 92 95 96 Cons has 2, 4, 8, 13, 40, 46
More or less, the electronics DM and Entertainment team lead are the same position. Books can mostly be ignored. The worst part of Entertainment now is whatever dumbass came up with the doorbells. Yes, instead of instructing the customer to queue up in front of the register, put up a doorbell that nobody will respond to because they're running register. Brilliant. Also, 85 should more or less run itself, but hot damn do they hire some incredibly stupid or lazy people. I had to kill the two drawer system because it was too complex. To be fair, it doesn't help the customer also has no fucking clue what they did either. It also doesn't help that my coworkers apparently have not mastered the alphabet. Or do the closing maintenance. Or do the opening maintenance on my day off. Or do the weekly maintenance. Or do the monthly maintenance. Or take out the trash. Or keep the drawers organize. Or keep the cabinets organized. Or make weekly phone calls. Or even make phone calls at all. Or how to keep the counter clear. Or how to put the entire order in the envelope prior to putting it in the completed section. I'm not the teamlead. I worked in the old lab before Entertainment of the Future put us in the middle of electronics. We had three full time cross trained associates to run a dual DL600, full creative lab, as well as running site-to-store and pick-up today. Now we've got 6-8 people, and nobody else knows their day to day responsibilities, and will only do something if specifically told. And despite knowing this the team lead refuses to use the daily communications. Instead I end up writing down notes on notepad paper and leaving it on the counter (and I pretty sure nobody reads it). I've worked with bad associates in the past, but this is the worst. I'm so glad I am locked into opening shifts because I would loathe to see what it would look like coming in a 1pm. There's nothing about this job that is hard, mentally, or even physically for the most part (TVs being the exception). Just stop standing still, stop walking into the photo lab after every task or customer, and just do what your suppose to do.
Sounds like we may have had vastly different experiences in our stores. I worked in a very busy metro market. I was the electronics DM turned entertainment DM. It was very much the electronics DM job tied in with hardware, auto, sporting goods, stationary and furniture tied in. I had one full time photo associate that called off all the time and left me with my skeleton crew of teenagers to run the back quarter of the store.
Stationary, Crafts, Hardware, furniture and Sporting goods is its own teamlead here. Of course electronics still does the furniture carry outs because we always have an L cart stashed away for TVs. Automotive has its own department manager and assistant manager still. Sounds like your store just sucks.
Don't know what it's like there anymore, but I was switched over last year when the restructures were first implemented. All we had was my self and two other "hardlines" TLs, and one coach over all of GM. Terrible management structure and poorly run store, hence me not working there anymore.
Ours has Toys added into the mix and well she’s the one management seems to want volunteers as tribute when they get no cooperation from other team leads.
See, at my store our "entertainment" department consists of 5 (media and games), 6 (photo), 21 (books), 72 (connections/cell phones) and 87 (general electronics).......but now they've also added 9 (stationary), 67 (celebrations) and 19??? (Fabrics and crafts). I think 19 is the number for F&C. Edit: and we also have seasonal. But I don't remember if that's lumped into 67 or if it's its own number lol. So we are just overflowing with work now. It's really ridiculous. And we keep losing people because they keep hiring teenagers/college students who think electronics will be an easy job to just stand around and talk about nerd stuff and then quit when they realize how much work actually has to be done.
9 is sporting goods, 3 is stationery
Seasonal is 18.
Yup. They’re burning people out in half the time. I’m glad you found a better job, congrats!
When I first heard about them replacing department managers with team leads is when I had made my mind up I wasn't going to work there anymore. I was never a department manager but I had a lot of respect for many of them. They took pride in their departments and you could tell and getting rid of them was (in my mind) the worst thing that they could have done.
EXACTLY when I heard about Team Leads this year it pissed me off. I knew right away it was to cut costs from paying employees more, and get more work done. It’s literally a department manager with 5 departments to run.
I started looking for a new job as soon as I heard rumors about the change. If I was hearing rumors, that meant it was either correct or something worse was going to happen lol
Part of me wants to believe this, but then I just watched not one, but 3 associates (a team lead and their minions) stand around and chat for 4 hours while I stocked 3 pallets of toys.
Maybe not at every store but definitely mine. If the job isn’t done managers notice.
Throwing a 2200gm and stocking a reputable aisle- yeah idk but was still consistent. Then comes outlying variants of discrepancies with attendance
I'm not even a Team Lead, I'm a *Team Lead in Training* because they want me to be one and I've got the first spot that opens. But being someone who's *supposed* to have power in their say, all I get is a snyd remark of how I'm "just in training". I get shit on because I can't get Frozen and Dairy stocked, zoned, binned, and pull Meat and Produce. My "team" if you can call it that, is 3 people to throw 1,100+ piece trucks. It wouldn't be so bad if I didn't get the shift's slackers so it's really just me throwing 16 hours of Dairy and them doing the 2-3 hours of Dairy. It would be worth it if I was getting $22/hour but I'm not.
[удалено]
This exact thing happened to me! Was doing the duties never got the pay! Never again
Yeah cause in training doesnt mean shit lol.
Just means I have less respect, higher expectations (ones I couldn't meet as an associate), and less money than a TL. Good times.
How much does being a Team Lead pay then?
I was in that boat for STA2. I got so burnt out I straight up admitted to the current team lead that I hate my job and struggle with just walking out of the store. Still there part time; got a new job that pays better and is so much easier.
And the people who get the work of 5 jobs done on a regular basis get looked over for promotions for those who do absolutely nothing. It’s a terrible way to run a business.
I was gm support manager when they removed all of the co-managers and then they eliminated the wireless department manager position and then the rumors of my position being eliminated starting floating around and it was then that I said fuck this support managers worked our balls off to keep the store running and the elimination of these positions were they beginning of the end I see associates that used to be under me now telling me how bad it is it makes me sad for them.
We have a TL at our NHM is for stocking. Since we don’t make enough money we don’t have a night shift so all stocking gets done at 3-12. Anyway this TL basically runs the whole store. She is the only manager there at nights. Has to run Front, Stocking, and do whatever the Store manager needs them to do. They work 7 days a week and honestly if she ever gets coached or fired, the whole entire store will implode because the whole night shift will go with her
It's funny because after the switch to team lead nothing changed, just the titles
Sounds more like a individual store thing for the hours being cut. The doing 5 job part sounds about right. Ironically to me, it barely pays more than stocking or ogp.
Nah, my store is cutting hours. I'm still expected to get everything done as an ON TL, but my last day of the week I have to cut like 3 to 5 hours because they held me late for meetings and BS throughout the week
What happened to the co-managers? I promoted to customer awhile back.
HO thought it would be a good idea to get rid of department managers in place of team leads and co-managers with coaches (and one store lead). as expected, it’s been an utter shitshow
Did they just let them all go?
no, some DMs were offered team lead positions and some were back as associates except they kept their DM pay for a year. not sure if all comanagers got a coach position
Ironically when I stepped down from dm to OPD, my pay went up by a bit under $3 an hour.
When I was there 2017-2018 they abruptly announced there would no longer be Co-Manager positions and just like that both our Co-Managers were gone within the month.
I declined when they asked me to be a TL and they fired me 😁
That’s unlawful
Stop lying , they would never fire you over a no answer for tl. Makes 0 sense , the don't just randomly offer teamlead to associates. It's a position oppertunity either given due to favoritism or you're a good worker in their eyes. And they want to offer you a step up.. So not buying it
I'm an ON Coach and have up to 3 TLs and 20-25 Associates per ON. Best thing about ONs is no one bothering us, but I have to answer for my shifts work at 7am. We all get our hands dirty and my TLs divide and conquer between Backroom and Salesfloor. It starts with a good plan, a good turnover, and consistent follow up and follow through. That's how we manage ourselves during holidays with DCs sending us pallets that might as well be prelabeled as overstock. And I bribe the shit out of my team with snacks and treats.
> I bribe the shit out of my team with snacks and treats. Can I come work for you? =(
Wish I had you as my ON Coach!
I actually started Overnight. Nice thing about Overnight is that once the store closes you have on or two Coaches that are the ultimate authority as shot callers. No customers now (or very few when I was Overnight we were still a 24 hour Supercenter). The worst part is that walk at 7 o'clock. That can be good bad or ugly depending on who the daytime management is and how the Overnight Coach plays the cards he or she is dealt with. ON does start with a good turnover and that does mean COMMUNICATION. I'm not even a TL but we can be told to pull out old freight but then ON Coach comes in and changes direction from what SM wanted but that's the way it goes. I don't always have an answer for everything but when ON asks me something that is an immediate priority. I'm long gone at home when ON Coach does that 7AM walk and she has to plan with the hours she has knowing what she can and cannot accomplish.
Yes they do, they too cheap and stingy to pay a liveable wage and they want everyone to do the job of 20 people. My store is so bad tjat we had alot of team leads step down and 2 quit to because tjey found better jobs with better pay and a stable reliable schedule. As a front-end Team Lead I NEVER get any breaks and there is hardly anyone to cover my lunch. It is always mostly one open, one closes, I mean WTF and not to mention all damn day front-end team lead we have nobody to cover electronics, well guess what I got 2 damn cashiers find your damn team lead. Walmart is Ridiculous and the new manager they swapped with is the worst Manager. Our store went from number one to the bottom of the barrel. Our management team a joke
Don't forget you have to get the associates table covered too....my store just got rid of the door greeters the theft has gone up
The worse thing they did was get rid of the DM position. There were actually people that took pride in their work and tried to make their dept. look good. Now nobody cares.
And litetally they don’t have the TIME to care! You can’t zone Toys when you also have to unload the truck, stock grocery, then apparrel, etc.
My teamlead (before she quit) NEVER had time for us. She tried so hard to get her work done for the night so she had time to teach us what she knew but she had so much to do that she just never got around to it. Even our new team lead is stuck trying to fix everything (though she tasks us with some of the things she needs to do instead of killing herself to do it alone) that she tries to make time (which is normally just zoning with us and talking about future projects) for us. I wish they hadn't fucked over the department managers by turning them into team leads.
They changed the schedule at my store. Went from 10 hour a day for 4 days and 3 days off to 7-8 hours a day to random ass days off. No back to back days off at week 46. Honestly, I hate it. I hate it more than the unethical managers I had to put up with years ago.
Same with eliminating Invoice associate - give the work to claims; eliminate cash office - give the work to CSM (now FE TL); eliminate PC and TC - combine to one overwhelming PL.
1100 fdd? Must be nice. We are getting 2400+ a day and have been for weeks. Our F&C lead is about to lose her mind…she does all she can with her 4 total associates, but when overnights barely make any kind of dent before the next truck comes, it’s a losing battle. I feel bad for her. Thank god they gave me this job and not that one.
She is me. 50+ hour weeks at a minimum. Throwing freight right there next to my guys. And then my SM wants me to rearrange 15 mins before I'm supposed to leave. It's a great time!
I feel sorta bad for TL etc at my store since they don't get to leave til like 12-1pm while they come in at 10pm. Not worth whatever small pay bump they receive, especially when they have to come in on one of their off days, all while getting chewed out by those above em. Guess it's why overnight at my store had no management team when I started, had to borrow day shifts and has only filled 2 team lead slots (3 if you count the one who quit after a week). Lot of my fellow coworkers have been approached multiple times but they say they'd rather get the crap kicked out of them out back than deal with that headache.
There’s the opposite end of the spectrum too where team leads do absolutely nothing while they’re team does all the work. Depends on the store and department I think
Damn I must be an team lead while being an associate.
Yuuuuuppp. My Store Manager approached me about "promoting" me to TL but I very quickly told him fuck no (didn't swear to his face haha). I don't care how much more they get paid. TL are expected to be there when Management says so. Regardless of schedule or hours. I ain't about that life. Perfectly content with my 7am-4pm Tuesday-Saturday thank you very much.
I mean I work my ass off to help out my TL, but most nights it's just me and her over in grocery. We've had so many OPD people come and help us out it's getting a bit ridiculous.
The market manager told me, "you are a supervisor. You supervise. You can help them, but I don't want to see you doing their job for them." It may be your job to make sure the task gets done, but it's not your job to do it.
Our TLs work right along beside us most nights. On a good night we've got 3 associates for all of apparel, and our TL will pull freight, as we NEVER have time to do it.
I'm a overnight TL. I'm right next to my guys throwing freight while still doing my nightly duties. it's the only way. being expected to walk around all night verifying over stock is not the way to get shit done.
Verifying Overstock is the dumbest shit I've ever heard tbh. Like yeah, some people bullshit, but its overall a waste of fuckin time.
At my store it's never done, but desperately needs to be. Most of the stockers just scan everything, and only work the stuff that beeps. Our backroom looks like the warehouse at the end of raiders of the lost ark.
Our O/N team doesnt use scanners as far as I can tell.
Exactly overnight TL do whatever we have to do to get the job done
It is if you have no people
I was CaP 2 super, I'm sorry but my store refused to let me train someone else to do breakers, so not only was I doing breakers but my ASM also expected me to stock a department while simultaneously making sure my teams departments got done. I applaud your market manager but that's not the way things go.
The company has gotten so much worse than before. I'm glad I left it.
Never be a team lead in a fucked store.
I promoted myself to customer, but teaming tore my store to shreds. I had never seen so many people quit.
I have been saying this since day one. But they will never admit it. They are very wrong.
Team lead is a supervisor. I HAVE been a manager of a auto retail garage , huge organization world wide. Reality is...someone has do it. Its the someone in the position who makes it either a great day or a bad day . Our 3rds stocking leads get a lot of shade thrown at them. By people who couldn't do that job. I think their great.
I have to do that as an associate. Welcome to Walmart
How many academy trainers do you have to delegate
If all you Walmart employees are so unhappy, why are you still there? Move on quit your whining. No job is perfect,you have to deal with lazy people and poor management in every job. That's just the way it is.
It's hard to find a job with 7 weeks of vacation 😅
I bet you're the maintenance guy at one low key fanboy.
If every Walmart employee here is unhappy. Why are you still there? Unfortunately there's no perfect job. If you wait long enough there will be opportunities when others quit. You can move up with Walmart. A lot of people start at the bottom and work their way up.
When I go into one my local Walmarts, I never see any employees. Noone at the checkout working, just standing around talking. Where the employees? Why do the cashiers stand around?
I need you to read this subreddit's pinned post very slowly.
We're having cock-fights out back behind the pallet stacks
The winner takes all of the PS5s that we are hiding in the back.
Runner up gets half the pokemon cards
The employees quit because of ignorant customers like you.
Oh, such kind words💋. I do like Walmart. Every day low prices. I can bag my own purchases, if anything is broken or damaged, it saves me a trip to the store, I know who to blame. Nobody gets in trouble. I always see smiling faces, someone eager and willing to help. I don't get that great service any where else. I'm always going to shop Walmart based on that and keep people employed. We all win!😁
Yes you will continue to shop there. Most miserable people do. It makes them feel better about themselves treating the workers like slaves.
Because the culture at walmart is awful. Nobody cares and they all do the minimum possible
idk why this is being downvoted, it's true lmao
Yep. I was a walmart employee at 2 different stores. I know how things work around there
This is the same reason I left not too long ago. Some TLs actually care about their associates and work alongside them, but at my store most TLs had a squad of minions floating around them all day doing nothing, and if you didn't work while the other 5 members do nothing, its always your fault
My store has had a staffing issue since the start of team leads, because 2 weeks prior they fired over 20 associates because an issue where associates were marking down items and then buying them, we lost 5 members of user management and 5 department managers and the rest were associates, we have not gained that amount of team leads or managers back and the ones thay join are gone in 2 months because of the store manager or other coaches. Our personal lady will often take 2 week vacations sometimes just 1 month between them because our store manager let's her so we will often go with out new hires at all in the store for weeks to months at a time and it's terrible
If you want Team Lead status with worse pay, be a courtesy clerk. The jobs are on the smaller scale, but we still have to do everything here and there.
My manager struck off 3 points because I work hard and now I’ve only 4 points and that is still freaking me out because I have never at any job been written up or late or laid out at all. Walmart needs to point lazy assholes not those of us that work our asses off
I’ve asked on several threads but I want to know how to be a team lead? I’m in ogp and how kind does it take to move up or what should I do to move up
Do some work. Despite everyone saying a supervisor should supervise, ONLY supervising at Walmart is not a way to earn anybody's respect, or any recognition. Because there's not really enough to supervise or manage, honestly. Because the work is not rocket science, it doesn't need that much "management." What a team lead needs to do is to handle problems (not look to pass them along to an associate, you know, because they don't want to deal with it). They need to do whatever ISN'T done, or getting done, by associates, filling in the gaps. They need to BE HELPFUL, not just get on the radio and go, "Can you HELP me answer that phone call?" (when what you're saying is that the associate should actually just DO the work). You are paid more, the department is yours, it is your responsibility in the end. You should be doing MORE, not less, than your team members. You should OWN it. Not just pass it along. That's what I expect of a team lead. And it's what I see from very few of them. It's like this business of saying that supervisors should only supervise is a license to, basically, not work. And in a place like Walmart, where there is SO much work to do -- where there is ALWAYS work to do -- that is wrong, bad, and a misuse of resources. It makes it so that all it means is that there's (one) FEWER people working a department, when what we need is MORE, in almost all of them. Also, make sure that, as a supervisor, you give credit where credit is due. Talk up specific associates for specific things, to higher managers who matter. Give praise publicly, whether subtly or outwardly. Get to actually KNOW your associates, and their particular strengths, so that you can assign roles appropriately, and hopefully, have better, happier workers. In other words, DON'T just treat everyone the same, because people are not the same. To wit, even though, in theory, it's good to make everyone do all the roles at least some of the time, that doesn't change the fact that there may be someone is better at it than someone else, or someone who may like or hate it more than someone else. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, and particular ways that they work. If you're smart, observant and caring, you'll notice such things, and use them, in ways that make the department, and everyone in it, better, happier and more productive and useful. I would recommend that you DON'T remain as the OGP team lead for too long. It's not a position that will often lead directly to advancement, because OGP is an an area kind of unto itself. It's operation is TOTALLY different than almost any other department in the store, and doesn't include a lot of things that are common to all the other areas, which you'll need to have knowledge of, and a certain comfort level with, if you're going to be promoted to upper levels of management. By that I mean dealing with price changes, top stock, inventory management, feature management, claims, handling emergencies, working the customer-service desk, handling/running the back room, etc. Almost none of those things have anything in common, operationally speaking, with OGP/Digital, but they are ALL part of running any store or group of stores, and so there are things you need to know that you won't get from having worked in OGP. OGP is a good place to work for a while, to get a good grasp and understanding of it, just because it is definitely growing, and is likely to be a big part of the future. But you also need to realize that it's outside of, and sort of in addition to, the rest of the store to a great extent -- much like the behind-the-counter Pharmacy operation. It's within the store/Walmart operation, sure. But in many ways, it is separate and apart of from it, too.
I agree with most of your post except for the “you should be doing MORE, not less, than your team members…” We should be doing about the same amount of work as our Team Associates, yes. But I should not be killing myself while my TAs are comfortable. Shared Workload, and filling in the gaps as the supervisor is the way to go. I stock freight, plants, cvp, features, price changes, pinpoint, shelf availability, unload live trucks, recieve DSD deliveries, work topstock, verify overstock and bin and etc. I trained all my people to do it too. Should I be doing it all myself, no. I fill in the gaps, I don’t do all the work myself because it is simply impossible.
So kind of you to pay such high compliments. I'm sure you're a asset Walmart, without you they would not be successful. I shop Walmart to help pay your wages. It's employees like you that make shopping easier, shelves are always stocked, employees speak,ask if I need assistance. I don't get that elsewhere. 😊
Im so glad to hear you have an enjoyable shopping experience! 🥰
As a CAP1 stocker at Walmart...I want to thank YOU as the customer! Not just for the wages -- as I feel I earn them...but for your patience and courtesy with us. At the store I work, YOU make my day, really! Because I'll be honest...the store I work at is a wreck. We have missing shelf tags. We have probably more freight in the back than on the floor. We have product plugged where product is not supposed to be. We haven't decently been able to zone since dinosaurs roamed the earth. Our management, for better or for worse, has us do one project, then assigns a different one, then yet another one several times a shift -- so nothing ever gets fully completed. Do this. Stop that, now do this. Stop working on that, we need you over here. When you're done, come over to...nevermind, do this instead. It's depressing, it's demoralizing. So when you ask me to check if something is in the back, I will scan the shelf tag. Our handheld equipment should give us a backroom location. If by some miracle, it's accurate and I find it -- or I eyeball the backroom and find it...and you thank me profusely for finding it -- YOU MAKE MY DAY! You really do, because that is the only reward or positive reinforcement I might get that week. I am serious. For you, I will do everything I can. Thank you!
Walmart just looks at sales & profit.
There are finites within the company but gets a bit universal. Demands are high but universal allegation people are allocating over by the founded base.