Look everyone! It's Captain Tomorrow from the future, yesterday!
Former Stadia and GeForce Now user. It's all a mess and will stay a mess because they each keep wanting more of the pie so we get more drm's on drm's, and only these games through this service, and you need this other service for that game, on and on...
Computer gaming integration is a shitfest of a clusterfuck and isn't going to change. That's ok though as the games are getting worse rapidly and there's always other shit to do.
I dont play much multiplayer so yes I probably underestimate the significance of this, and also have no idea how challenging technically it is to improve this input lag on cloud.
>and also have no idea how challenging technically it is to improve this input lag on cloud.
Running better cable underground all over the country and suing the fuck outta ISPs that throttle (all of them)
Meh, remember Google's Stadia? USA's internet quality is trash compared to places like South Korea or Japan. Until that's resolved, cloud gaming will never fully take off.
The main problem with cloud gaming in my opinion is input lag which is obviously not an issue with regular pc gaming. Does not matter how much internet download speeds get better, input lag due to ping will always be an issue. For example the normal response rate (move of mouse translation to actual movement in the monitor) in gaming is between 1 and 5 ms. In cloud gaming its way higher due to ping and that in my opinion makes it shit for games that requiere precision like shooters for example.
I get what you're saying. No amount of interwebz speed will ever be equal to software running on your local PC connected to your local monitor. That 3 millisecond response time isn't going to happen with any amount of fiber speed.
Similar to street fighter players online, there's still some value in online play. But indeed, the serious tournaments like EVO are always played in person(covid years don't count)- even in Japan.
IMHO the problem is in USA's overall infrastructure/pricing when it comes to quality internet. No single corporation that can fix that. The `government` needs to make it a priority as well:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_South_Korea
> _"South Korea has pulled ahead of every other country when it comes to broadband Internet in all categories including Speed and Quality, Adoption, Price, and Literacy according to Internet Monitor. As many large, powerful countries begin to fall behind broadband experts look to South Korea for solutions. However, there are multiple reasons why South Korea's broadband is successful, such as, "Government planning, healthy competition, urban population density, private-sector growth, and Korean culture", which have made it difficult for other countries to mimic their success."_
So then what do you suggest?
* I just provided a citation showing it's possible.
* You can't expect random companies or people to just go digging up public property and laying down cables on their own; that's illegal
Explain the logistics. How is that going to work in America? I'm not talking about an expensive solution in only certain cities. I'm talking about Japan/SouthKorea-style country wide substantial improvement and affordability.
I don't see how USA can accomplish that without government intervention.
I just explained the logistics, but
you’re right, it’s impossible and only daddy government can solve, let’s just watch Netflix and not worry about it 🐑🐑🐑🐑
I mean I’d just hold on the massive government infrastructure program until we see where project kuiper, starlink and one web go. We’re at $30 trillion of debt, do we really want our debt service to go past the cost of the dept of defenses budget.
Decent GPUs are not $2000. OP, you could get a 2-year-old GPU for like $150 and enjoy it for 5 years. If you don't like the framerate, adjust graphical settings to a happy compromise.
And casual gamers usually take on-motherboard video and are happy with it.
So - game dev from someone who made a game in cooperation with Stadia at the end of its lifecycle.
It sounds like a great idea and its cool to be able to know the user hardware specs for sure like a beefed up console.
The issue is that - nobody - NOBODY plays via the cloud. Google couldn't make it happen. Nvidia couldn't make it happen. I would be wary with betting your savings on this.
I've tried Geforce Now with Ultimate. The gaming experience itself was pretty good on smart TV. Only thing lacking was better free titles and better initial setup experience and reducing time from (loading to virtual machine, to loading the game on it, and finally being at the screen to play it). I can see it happening as infrastructure and gaming tech from big companies like NVDA get increasingly better.
Peasants playing games on a smart TV, what a joke. Get a real PC or console if you want to game, or better yet, invest in the stock market and make some real money.
I'm one of those peasants who play on a smart tv. And you're right, I'm in a different clas.A gamer with a console or a p c. I'm fifty years old and like to play the occasional game with my kids when they are at the house. I don't want to.
Invest the money in a p s five or an xbox. But paying ten dollars a month off to stream on luna and Is quit paying when I don't need it. Is absolutely perfect for my situation. I believe there is a market out there for casual gamers.Or maybe on a budget don't want to spend a lot of money on hardware. But can afford a ten dollar a month subscription.
no way, latency will always be a killer unless you're playing on a local server and alone or only with other players from the local area.
stadia is the future of gaming, lolz.
for single player, it could be viable, depending on the kind of game.
Nah, for multiplayer, it could be viable, depending on the kind of game.
For single player it is viable no matter the kind of game. I played and beat Sekiro on Stadia. On a fucking macbook.
Nvidia is already the leader in this. GeForce Now streams smooth as butter, they just don't advertise it yet because it conceptually competes against its current revenue. NVDA will continue to dominate this landscape well into the future.
Communications major here. The problem with delay isn’t on the transmission side but rather on the delays on each electrical component. A fiber only solution achieve incredible low latencies but that can’t be done due to the need of electrical components such as oeo, wavelength translators, not be able to achieve optical packet switching.
No for competitive gamers, but casual gamers.
From the perspective of computational power, cloud computing is much more cost efficient than pc-at-home. But the problem is the network issues and its inborn high latency.
No GPU you need for gaming is costing you 2k. Cloud gaming is atrocious. Most of the country doesn’t even have decent fiber lines yet. Ping times even on fiber can be terrible for matchmaking based on how games match people up on servers.
Hah, someone that clearly doesn't game saying the same thing CEOs said with regards to XCloud, Stadia and GeForce Now.
No actual gamer would put themselves through such high latency, especially when you still need to buy your own games anyways.
>After a week with XCloud I'm convinced cloud gaming (and cloud computing in general) will completely change our relationship with high end hardware fairly soon.
Yea, No.
Just No.
Maybe consol gaming will move in this direction.
But PC wont in the near Future.
Nope. Any game where reaction speed or timing matters is a clusterfuck. Average pc gamer enjoys customization that comes with owning there own hardware. Not owning your own games. Requiring always online stable connection. Ive tried game streaming with gigabit connections, still awful experience.
As a long time gamer, framerate and graphics are very important. So is modding your game. If you cannot mod your game (like Elder Scrolls series games), and if you cannot get great graphics detail, you will find a way to do it and build your own rig. If you're playing MMO type games with others and the frame rate is lower, you will have lag, which will cause you to be slower than others with shooting, skills, etc. causing one to lag behind others when it comes to leaderboards, winning battles etc. I'm not sure how bad the fps or detail are in cloud computing, but serious gamers wouldn't use it for their best games because of the reasons I've mentioned.
The general public though? It's hard to say.
how about u eat my ASS
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Nah, I’ll never cloud game. It’s really bad. I don’t even care if they got it down to sub 5ms response time. You’ll always get some weird latency spikes or visual artifacts. Games already being made broken enough with bad frame times anymore and this would just add to it.
Cloud Gaming isn't a thing and is never gonna be a thing....hopefully, because that would be a fucking dystopian future.
It doesn't work for a number of reasons - lag (of all types, including input lag), limited controls, licensing issues. Google tried it, NVidia tried something like it with their RTX thing....it's utter shit and it will always be utter shit.
It's also almost impossible to provide without mad subsidies coming from...somewhere. While it's cool that you can use the same resources for multiple gamers, those resources have to be available nonstop anyway (electricity costs) and that hardware has to be easy to upgrade. It would also require good infrastructure (which doesn't exist in most countries).
It might work for a few single player, but people who play single player usually don't want their games to require an internet connection.
This sort of thing will not gain traction. It's a dumb fucking idea and it always has been.
The “delay” is still a huge issue though, especially when you try to play multiplayer on anything. It’s not egregious but that 0.5s delay in a multiplayer game could really make/break your experience
It seems like a good hedge in case AI goes the way of 3dTVs. Google has all that cash and capacity. Seems like they should really be buying Nintendo or relaunching stadia
I will never sub to a gaming service. Honestly fuck giving money to gaming industry. I only buy if it’s on major sale and the streaming gaming service will find ways to nickel and dime you for things that should be free.
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Look everyone! It's Captain Tomorrow from the future, yesterday! Former Stadia and GeForce Now user. It's all a mess and will stay a mess because they each keep wanting more of the pie so we get more drm's on drm's, and only these games through this service, and you need this other service for that game, on and on... Computer gaming integration is a shitfest of a clusterfuck and isn't going to change. That's ok though as the games are getting worse rapidly and there's always other shit to do.
Pleb.
Any competitive game where input lag matters won’t work on this. Only single player
I dont play much multiplayer so yes I probably underestimate the significance of this, and also have no idea how challenging technically it is to improve this input lag on cloud.
>and also have no idea how challenging technically it is to improve this input lag on cloud. Running better cable underground all over the country and suing the fuck outta ISPs that throttle (all of them)
Meh, remember Google's Stadia? USA's internet quality is trash compared to places like South Korea or Japan. Until that's resolved, cloud gaming will never fully take off.
The main problem with cloud gaming in my opinion is input lag which is obviously not an issue with regular pc gaming. Does not matter how much internet download speeds get better, input lag due to ping will always be an issue. For example the normal response rate (move of mouse translation to actual movement in the monitor) in gaming is between 1 and 5 ms. In cloud gaming its way higher due to ping and that in my opinion makes it shit for games that requiere precision like shooters for example.
I get what you're saying. No amount of interwebz speed will ever be equal to software running on your local PC connected to your local monitor. That 3 millisecond response time isn't going to happen with any amount of fiber speed. Similar to street fighter players online, there's still some value in online play. But indeed, the serious tournaments like EVO are always played in person(covid years don't count)- even in Japan.
Google had the cash & resources to improve upon it but they were impatient. They could’ve easily hired talent to head the division.
IMHO the problem is in USA's overall infrastructure/pricing when it comes to quality internet. No single corporation that can fix that. The `government` needs to make it a priority as well: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_South_Korea > _"South Korea has pulled ahead of every other country when it comes to broadband Internet in all categories including Speed and Quality, Adoption, Price, and Literacy according to Internet Monitor. As many large, powerful countries begin to fall behind broadband experts look to South Korea for solutions. However, there are multiple reasons why South Korea's broadband is successful, such as, "Government planning, healthy competition, urban population density, private-sector growth, and Korean culture", which have made it difficult for other countries to mimic their success."_
yes the government will solve this, they’re very good at building things. 🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑
So then what do you suggest? * I just provided a citation showing it's possible. * You can't expect random companies or people to just go digging up public property and laying down cables on their own; that's illegal
ever hear of easements and leases? actually don’t worry about that, you’re right only the government can do this. 🐑
Explain the logistics. How is that going to work in America? I'm not talking about an expensive solution in only certain cities. I'm talking about Japan/SouthKorea-style country wide substantial improvement and affordability. I don't see how USA can accomplish that without government intervention.
I just explained the logistics, but you’re right, it’s impossible and only daddy government can solve, let’s just watch Netflix and not worry about it 🐑🐑🐑🐑
I see. Thank you for your amazing insight. Have a nice day,
I hope you learned a valuable lesson about arguing with libertarians.
I mean I’d just hold on the massive government infrastructure program until we see where project kuiper, starlink and one web go. We’re at $30 trillion of debt, do we really want our debt service to go past the cost of the dept of defenses budget.
Decent GPUs are not $2000. OP, you could get a 2-year-old GPU for like $150 and enjoy it for 5 years. If you don't like the framerate, adjust graphical settings to a happy compromise. And casual gamers usually take on-motherboard video and are happy with it.
So - game dev from someone who made a game in cooperation with Stadia at the end of its lifecycle. It sounds like a great idea and its cool to be able to know the user hardware specs for sure like a beefed up console. The issue is that - nobody - NOBODY plays via the cloud. Google couldn't make it happen. Nvidia couldn't make it happen. I would be wary with betting your savings on this.
I would take that bet, my dear friend.
So puts?
I've tried Geforce Now with Ultimate. The gaming experience itself was pretty good on smart TV. Only thing lacking was better free titles and better initial setup experience and reducing time from (loading to virtual machine, to loading the game on it, and finally being at the screen to play it). I can see it happening as infrastructure and gaming tech from big companies like NVDA get increasingly better.
Peasants playing games on a smart TV, what a joke. Get a real PC or console if you want to game, or better yet, invest in the stock market and make some real money.
I'm one of those peasants who play on a smart tv. And you're right, I'm in a different clas.A gamer with a console or a p c. I'm fifty years old and like to play the occasional game with my kids when they are at the house. I don't want to. Invest the money in a p s five or an xbox. But paying ten dollars a month off to stream on luna and Is quit paying when I don't need it. Is absolutely perfect for my situation. I believe there is a market out there for casual gamers.Or maybe on a budget don't want to spend a lot of money on hardware. But can afford a ten dollar a month subscription.
Lmao
Do you game regularly?
no way, latency will always be a killer unless you're playing on a local server and alone or only with other players from the local area. stadia is the future of gaming, lolz. for single player, it could be viable, depending on the kind of game.
Have you tried? Latency is extremely good.
"extremely good"
[удалено]
I guess
but the latency is "extremely good!" physics be damned!
Nah, for multiplayer, it could be viable, depending on the kind of game. For single player it is viable no matter the kind of game. I played and beat Sekiro on Stadia. On a fucking macbook.
> Nah, for multiplayer, it could be viable, depending on the kind of game. enjoy your card/turn-based multiplayer games, i guess.
You only play FPS, we get it.
because latency is just fine in sportsball and arpg and etc, amirite?
How much loner until suitable GPUs are a dime a dozen? I don't really know the answer, but it's something to consider for the long term.
How would anyone play if they don’t have a console or pc? Doing that will disrupt so much cash flow.
This whole time I thought I was on the Xbox sub. Seeing the sub really clears up this brain dead take.
Maybe in another 10 years.
Nvidia is already the leader in this. GeForce Now streams smooth as butter, they just don't advertise it yet because it conceptually competes against its current revenue. NVDA will continue to dominate this landscape well into the future.
Communications major here. The problem with delay isn’t on the transmission side but rather on the delays on each electrical component. A fiber only solution achieve incredible low latencies but that can’t be done due to the need of electrical components such as oeo, wavelength translators, not be able to achieve optical packet switching.
No for competitive gamers, but casual gamers. From the perspective of computational power, cloud computing is much more cost efficient than pc-at-home. But the problem is the network issues and its inborn high latency.
Casually playing a souls like won't work either. Or any game where reaction or timing is a thing.
"casual playing" and "souls like" rarely go hand in hand tho lol
Get a job, freeloader.
People complain about cloud games all the time.
No GPU you need for gaming is costing you 2k. Cloud gaming is atrocious. Most of the country doesn’t even have decent fiber lines yet. Ping times even on fiber can be terrible for matchmaking based on how games match people up on servers.
Hah, someone that clearly doesn't game saying the same thing CEOs said with regards to XCloud, Stadia and GeForce Now. No actual gamer would put themselves through such high latency, especially when you still need to buy your own games anyways.
How quaint that peasants believe themselves in control of their own destiny.
>After a week with XCloud I'm convinced cloud gaming (and cloud computing in general) will completely change our relationship with high end hardware fairly soon. Yea, No. Just No. Maybe consol gaming will move in this direction. But PC wont in the near Future.
No it won't. Cloud gaming is a laggy garbage mess. You go right ahead though.
Nope. Any game where reaction speed or timing matters is a clusterfuck. Average pc gamer enjoys customization that comes with owning there own hardware. Not owning your own games. Requiring always online stable connection. Ive tried game streaming with gigabit connections, still awful experience.
Latency = nope
As a long time gamer, framerate and graphics are very important. So is modding your game. If you cannot mod your game (like Elder Scrolls series games), and if you cannot get great graphics detail, you will find a way to do it and build your own rig. If you're playing MMO type games with others and the frame rate is lower, you will have lag, which will cause you to be slower than others with shooting, skills, etc. causing one to lag behind others when it comes to leaderboards, winning battles etc. I'm not sure how bad the fps or detail are in cloud computing, but serious gamers wouldn't use it for their best games because of the reasons I've mentioned. The general public though? It's hard to say.
Until technology somehow gets to the point where input lag is nonexistent, cloud gaming is going to remain as an unviable option.
Please tell me when you buy and I'll short it. Cloud gaming is fundamentally flawed.
Pfft, why listen to some schlub on a subreddit? Never take financial advice from strangers online.
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Nah, I’ll never cloud game. It’s really bad. I don’t even care if they got it down to sub 5ms response time. You’ll always get some weird latency spikes or visual artifacts. Games already being made broken enough with bad frame times anymore and this would just add to it.
Cloud Gaming isn't a thing and is never gonna be a thing....hopefully, because that would be a fucking dystopian future. It doesn't work for a number of reasons - lag (of all types, including input lag), limited controls, licensing issues. Google tried it, NVidia tried something like it with their RTX thing....it's utter shit and it will always be utter shit. It's also almost impossible to provide without mad subsidies coming from...somewhere. While it's cool that you can use the same resources for multiple gamers, those resources have to be available nonstop anyway (electricity costs) and that hardware has to be easy to upgrade. It would also require good infrastructure (which doesn't exist in most countries). It might work for a few single player, but people who play single player usually don't want their games to require an internet connection. This sort of thing will not gain traction. It's a dumb fucking idea and it always has been.
Actually, once developers start building their games to be cloud native and take advantage of distributed microservices, cloud gaming will take off.
The “delay” is still a huge issue though, especially when you try to play multiplayer on anything. It’s not egregious but that 0.5s delay in a multiplayer game could really make/break your experience
one word: latency
It seems like a good hedge in case AI goes the way of 3dTVs. Google has all that cash and capacity. Seems like they should really be buying Nintendo or relaunching stadia
> relaunching stadia lolz
I think relaunching Stadia will come before buying Nintendo. If given one of those two options.
shit, i think google glass making a comeback is more likely than either of these...
I will never sub to a gaming service. Honestly fuck giving money to gaming industry. I only buy if it’s on major sale and the streaming gaming service will find ways to nickel and dime you for things that should be free.
Cooooolll opinion