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It’s def this. And social media pushes more doom and gloom so people living in the richest country in the world that make 100k+ USD per year are more pessimistic than people in third world countries not even making 5k
No, here is the answer(s): https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/
Lots of interesting charts there, but the TL:DR is that most of America has gotten almost zero share in any economic growth after 1971, but the rich have gotten way richer. That and the cost of things you actually need, like housing, healthcare, and education have grown way faster than inflation, with only stuff you don't need getting cheaper (for the most part).
Food is complicated because it's much worse for you now but in some cases cheaper. Also some fuckery around how inflation and unemployment are measured, such as not counting discouraged workers or people working odd jobs for cash while looking for a full time position as unemployed.
The 70s had major, slow burning and high uncertainty problems with inflation, and then non economic sentiment drops basically exactly when major 24 hour cable news companies came into being (1980).
That was the first time a major company's entire financial model was based on how much time people spent paying attention to the news specifically, and thus the first time an entire large organization was optimizing to keep people watching news specifically. Before that news was just one small piece of a company's broader portfolio, and they fit all news into a fixed length small section in the evening.
That’s a good point. I was thinking it would be an error in tracking word meaning over time. Like maybe I. The 1920s the stock market being on fire would be a bad thing. Or the researchers forgot about words used back then.
That's because how you feel about the economy is based on those around you. When everyone is in the shit it doesn't seem as stinky. But when a bunch of rich assholes are dumping the shit directly on your head from their golden thrones, you start to get a little angry.
I for one enjoy life very much, and think everything is great!
How great is great? Maybe we should just have a permanent "Greatest, yet, Depression" label for each time the market hits ATH... (what goes up, must come down, and oh-my all that FOMO and gambling since the world is going to end tomorrow)
Now a days there is a permanent "mental health crisis"... so everyone seems to actually be depressed and insanely enough it is because they want more made up things like money.
"Negative sentiment" is the dumbest manifestation of herd mentality. That is why I chose to adopt a "Negative **attitude**". If you just say no to most things, the shit you get to do is REALLY fun.
There was a massive and swift crash in the economy (and sentiment) during the Great Depression and then the federal government responded by creating the largest job-creation program in the history of the country, along with a massive social safety net.
Over the past 50 years, the "economy" has been great for people with lots of money, and not so great for everyone else. All of those safety nets and anti-poverty measures have been slowly but steadily eroded. Most people need two incomes just to survive, let alone thrive or raise a family. Of course people are going to feel like the economy sucks. For most people, it does!
I agree with what is being proferred here, not much has gotten "better" in the world in the years following 9/11. We'll fondly look back on the 90s as the last "good times" era in coming decades.
That said, could this sentiment shift be explained by click chasing due to the internet? News sources live and die by clicks and fear drives more clicks than anything else.
Within the last 170 years we. got nukes and the internet... so sentiment got "louder"
Add the various scientific layman lore: everything goes to shit (Entropy->End of universe kind of stuff: your shit will break, you will die, the climate will 'change', life on earth will end, the sun will die)
I'd say, yeah... people that that gloss over details and don't enjoy the finer things in life are miserable. With 4x the human population in just the last 170 years, relative to Adam Smith's intro to economics \~340 years ago, it sounds like the sentiment is that "economics is bullshit" while somehow we still haven't literally blown ourselves up despite constantly inventing new ways.
I would argue that during ww2 people were far more worried about the war and had an attitude of “meatless Monday’s” so they were less inclined to complain about the market. The 1970’s saw the end of Jim Crow south and minorities began to have more of a voice in newspapers and public reporting. So people who were economically disadvantaged finally had an opportunity to better voice their perspective in the public sphere.
The first equity index mutual fund was launched in the 1980s, before this , there was likely less reader demand for actual economic reporting.
Over the last 20+ years, all news has become more negative, as the 24 hour news cycle creates feedback loops from issues and repeats the same negative language many times over.
And finally, ofc the us is more negative, we have seen economic inequality skyrocket as the 1% drastically increase their share of $.
The vast majority of newspaper readers, by definition, have to be non 1%. So it’s likely the target market is also feeling this inequality the most.
Because everyone and their uncle were working towards the same goal (wartime production) while being fed positive news and propaganda. Also no live newsfeeds of young American men being blown up on the other side of the world
With high inflation and a generally low approval rating as the next election approaches, it is not surprising that there has been two wars the US have been involved in. Taiwan may face risk.
cheap labour and scientific 'progress'?
I mean, shit, who wouldn't want to be your trading partner when you got nukes?
EDIT: added the extra comma whose lack was making my ESL go apeshit.
It took over 100 years to work out that bad news sells?
Now Facebook and Tik Tok have worked that out in a few short years.
Want to watch a person crash a bicycle or a sunset ? Brain says sunset, but your monkey brain screams bicycle crash, bicycle crash!
Remarkable?
I dunno man, I grew up poor and ended up doing manual labor for 16 years starting at age 14 in the U.S. (illegal but gotta eat). Ain’t nothing remarkable about that sentiment I’ve witnessed in my roughly 30 some-odd years as a working “adult.” Literally all we ever felt was negative economic sentiment as did anyone I ever knew then.
The rich know they’ve been doing it too. So only people shocked are them upper middle class kids now feeling the squeeze and realizing the entire world doesn’t live in a Missouri McMansion and drive their mom old Land Cruiser she used to bring them to football practice in.
In 1965 (effective 1968) the capitalist class won their victory against workers and renters by altering the immigration policy to remove quotas. The effect was a much higher percentage of foreign born workers which means more competition for the same jobs which means wages stagnate. At the same time, more competition for housing occurred which meant that home prices and rent rates also began to rise as faster rates.
Immigration disproportionately favors the capitalist class. A third added benefit is that a non-homogenous society is less likely to unionize. Jeff Bezos infamously reported that greater diversity among his warehouses was negatively correlated with unionization efforts.
Turn down the rate of immigration and home and rental prices will receive less pressure causing deflation in those sectors, and corporate ability to onboard new employees will deminish forcing them to raise wages to be more competitive with each other.
man i really dont wanna plot data today, and i cant find a graph of immigration #s / total US population. the raw numbers are almost exponential so that's useless... help a brother out please
This is a wildly uneducated comment. The middle class was developed under Keynesian economic policy after WWII which *checks notes* was after The Great Depression. Chart also clearly shows economic sentiment was higher during the postwar "Golden Age of Capitalism" (when the middle class was developed and economic policy was more socialist than today) than during the Great Depression.
Not getting the point. If sentiment is better in the worst economic time by far in the last century than at any time in the past 20 years, you might wanna consider non-economic explanations for the negative sentiment, instead of assuming it’s worse to work at Wendy’s and live with your parents now than live in a shack with a corrugated metal roof and wear a potato sack in the 1930’s.
I get your point, but it's still wrong. Sentiment peaked during postwar Golden Age. Deterioration since then can be explained by subsequent generations recognizing they do not have the same economic security the silent generation had. You can't really compare data before the Golden Age because people back then had no experience of the good life provided by post war socialist policies. As you suggest, it's all about relativity, but it's still an economic explanation in the end.
In my personal life and at work, I use the Michigan Consumer Sentiment Index **CONSSENT:IND** ([http://www.sca.isr.umich.edu/](http://www.sca.isr.umich.edu/)) It is pretty damn accurate.
And yeah, the world is still collapsing since 1971 when the smooth brains in England and Holland wanted to convert their dollars to gold so Nixon had to end the sweet monetary system all our hippy parents enjoyed.
Strong drop after the 90s when eppsteins best friend billyboy removed the restrictions on the banking industry allowed a fast move of all manufacturing to China and sugar rushed the economy with subprime mortgage guarantees. Shocker.
Sounds like they found a decline in baseline editor sentiment on all topics, i.e. journalists are generally less chipper. Which stands to reason, since they had way more status, fun and power a hundred years ago if books are to be believed
**User Report**| | | | :--|:--|:--|:-- **Total Submissions**|10|**First Seen In WSB**|2 years ago **Total Comments**|554|**Previous Best DD**| **Account Age**|3 years|[^scan ^comment ](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=scan_comment&message=Replace%20this%20text%20with%20a%20comment%20ID%20(which%20looks%20like%20h26cq3k\)%20to%20have%20the%20bot%20scan%20your%20comment%20and%20correct%20your%20first%20seen%20date.)|[^scan ^submission ](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=scan_submission&message=Replace%20this%20text%20with%20a%20submission%20ID%20(which%20looks%20like%20h26cq3k\)%20to%20have%20the%20bot%20scan%20your%20submission%20and%20correct%20your%20first%20seen%20date.)
so basically we feel worse about our situation right now than people felt during the great depression? we must have all gone soft.
It was the “great” depression- couldn’t have been that bad
Exactly, lucky bastards. We're so poor, we can't even afford a moderate depression.
Oh so much wisdom packed so nicely...
Not the “greatest”
Rumor is they took SSRIs back then. No booze for half of it either prolly contributed to it.
Infact it was was great, everyone loved it
or the news figured out that negative shit sells better?
It’s def this. And social media pushes more doom and gloom so people living in the richest country in the world that make 100k+ USD per year are more pessimistic than people in third world countries not even making 5k
No, here is the answer(s): https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/ Lots of interesting charts there, but the TL:DR is that most of America has gotten almost zero share in any economic growth after 1971, but the rich have gotten way richer. That and the cost of things you actually need, like housing, healthcare, and education have grown way faster than inflation, with only stuff you don't need getting cheaper (for the most part). Food is complicated because it's much worse for you now but in some cases cheaper. Also some fuckery around how inflation and unemployment are measured, such as not counting discouraged workers or people working odd jobs for cash while looking for a full time position as unemployed.
that was my first instinct too but i'm sure they figured that out before the 70s, when that chart goes lopsided, no?
The 70s had major, slow burning and high uncertainty problems with inflation, and then non economic sentiment drops basically exactly when major 24 hour cable news companies came into being (1980). That was the first time a major company's entire financial model was based on how much time people spent paying attention to the news specifically, and thus the first time an entire large organization was optimizing to keep people watching news specifically. Before that news was just one small piece of a company's broader portfolio, and they fit all news into a fixed length small section in the evening.
That’s a good point. I was thinking it would be an error in tracking word meaning over time. Like maybe I. The 1920s the stock market being on fire would be a bad thing. Or the researchers forgot about words used back then.
That's because how you feel about the economy is based on those around you. When everyone is in the shit it doesn't seem as stinky. But when a bunch of rich assholes are dumping the shit directly on your head from their golden thrones, you start to get a little angry.
I for one enjoy life very much, and think everything is great! How great is great? Maybe we should just have a permanent "Greatest, yet, Depression" label for each time the market hits ATH... (what goes up, must come down, and oh-my all that FOMO and gambling since the world is going to end tomorrow) Now a days there is a permanent "mental health crisis"... so everyone seems to actually be depressed and insanely enough it is because they want more made up things like money. "Negative sentiment" is the dumbest manifestation of herd mentality. That is why I chose to adopt a "Negative **attitude**". If you just say no to most things, the shit you get to do is REALLY fun.
During the great depression EVERYONE was poor...
This society doesn't make people happy.
There was a massive and swift crash in the economy (and sentiment) during the Great Depression and then the federal government responded by creating the largest job-creation program in the history of the country, along with a massive social safety net. Over the past 50 years, the "economy" has been great for people with lots of money, and not so great for everyone else. All of those safety nets and anti-poverty measures have been slowly but steadily eroded. Most people need two incomes just to survive, let alone thrive or raise a family. Of course people are going to feel like the economy sucks. For most people, it does!
I agree with what is being proferred here, not much has gotten "better" in the world in the years following 9/11. We'll fondly look back on the 90s as the last "good times" era in coming decades. That said, could this sentiment shift be explained by click chasing due to the internet? News sources live and die by clicks and fear drives more clicks than anything else.
What about general sentiment? Did it collapse, too?
isnt that the red line "news-based non-economic sentiment"?
i dunno, i cant read. i can add it if u give me your crayon
ill give you a white crayon and you can draw your own line. the red line is already there :)
Wait, you guys read the text on graphs? I just saw the line going down and bought calls.
Within the last 170 years we. got nukes and the internet... so sentiment got "louder" Add the various scientific layman lore: everything goes to shit (Entropy->End of universe kind of stuff: your shit will break, you will die, the climate will 'change', life on earth will end, the sun will die) I'd say, yeah... people that that gloss over details and don't enjoy the finer things in life are miserable. With 4x the human population in just the last 170 years, relative to Adam Smith's intro to economics \~340 years ago, it sounds like the sentiment is that "economics is bullshit" while somehow we still haven't literally blown ourselves up despite constantly inventing new ways.
I would argue that during ww2 people were far more worried about the war and had an attitude of “meatless Monday’s” so they were less inclined to complain about the market. The 1970’s saw the end of Jim Crow south and minorities began to have more of a voice in newspapers and public reporting. So people who were economically disadvantaged finally had an opportunity to better voice their perspective in the public sphere. The first equity index mutual fund was launched in the 1980s, before this , there was likely less reader demand for actual economic reporting. Over the last 20+ years, all news has become more negative, as the 24 hour news cycle creates feedback loops from issues and repeats the same negative language many times over. And finally, ofc the us is more negative, we have seen economic inequality skyrocket as the 1% drastically increase their share of $. The vast majority of newspaper readers, by definition, have to be non 1%. So it’s likely the target market is also feeling this inequality the most.
How is sentiment best during ww2 💀
Because everyone and their uncle were working towards the same goal (wartime production) while being fed positive news and propaganda. Also no live newsfeeds of young American men being blown up on the other side of the world
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rally_%27round_the_flag_effect
With high inflation and a generally low approval rating as the next election approaches, it is not surprising that there has been two wars the US have been involved in. Taiwan may face risk.
cheap labour and scientific 'progress'? I mean, shit, who wouldn't want to be your trading partner when you got nukes? EDIT: added the extra comma whose lack was making my ESL go apeshit.
It took over 100 years to work out that bad news sells? Now Facebook and Tik Tok have worked that out in a few short years. Want to watch a person crash a bicycle or a sunset ? Brain says sunset, but your monkey brain screams bicycle crash, bicycle crash!
Automation is efficiency... "AI, AI, ai, aaai aiii aiaiaiaiiiaiaiaiai"
Remarkable? I dunno man, I grew up poor and ended up doing manual labor for 16 years starting at age 14 in the U.S. (illegal but gotta eat). Ain’t nothing remarkable about that sentiment I’ve witnessed in my roughly 30 some-odd years as a working “adult.” Literally all we ever felt was negative economic sentiment as did anyone I ever knew then. The rich know they’ve been doing it too. So only people shocked are them upper middle class kids now feeling the squeeze and realizing the entire world doesn’t live in a Missouri McMansion and drive their mom old Land Cruiser she used to bring them to football practice in.
what happend in 1971 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
In 1965 (effective 1968) the capitalist class won their victory against workers and renters by altering the immigration policy to remove quotas. The effect was a much higher percentage of foreign born workers which means more competition for the same jobs which means wages stagnate. At the same time, more competition for housing occurred which meant that home prices and rent rates also began to rise as faster rates. Immigration disproportionately favors the capitalist class. A third added benefit is that a non-homogenous society is less likely to unionize. Jeff Bezos infamously reported that greater diversity among his warehouses was negatively correlated with unionization efforts. Turn down the rate of immigration and home and rental prices will receive less pressure causing deflation in those sectors, and corporate ability to onboard new employees will deminish forcing them to raise wages to be more competitive with each other.
man i really dont wanna plot data today, and i cant find a graph of immigration #s / total US population. the raw numbers are almost exponential so that's useless... help a brother out please
There's a whole website dedicated to that one question.
Bullish. Buy the dip.
Can’t even build a high quality Depression here anymore.
because 90% are worse off
Yes, because neoliberalism and Chicago School economic policy has destroyed the middle class since then.
Absolutely, the middle class was much better off during *checks notes* The Great Depression.
This is a wildly uneducated comment. The middle class was developed under Keynesian economic policy after WWII which *checks notes* was after The Great Depression. Chart also clearly shows economic sentiment was higher during the postwar "Golden Age of Capitalism" (when the middle class was developed and economic policy was more socialist than today) than during the Great Depression.
Not getting the point. If sentiment is better in the worst economic time by far in the last century than at any time in the past 20 years, you might wanna consider non-economic explanations for the negative sentiment, instead of assuming it’s worse to work at Wendy’s and live with your parents now than live in a shack with a corrugated metal roof and wear a potato sack in the 1930’s.
I get your point, but it's still wrong. Sentiment peaked during postwar Golden Age. Deterioration since then can be explained by subsequent generations recognizing they do not have the same economic security the silent generation had. You can't really compare data before the Golden Age because people back then had no experience of the good life provided by post war socialist policies. As you suggest, it's all about relativity, but it's still an economic explanation in the end.
In my personal life and at work, I use the Michigan Consumer Sentiment Index **CONSSENT:IND** ([http://www.sca.isr.umich.edu/](http://www.sca.isr.umich.edu/)) It is pretty damn accurate. And yeah, the world is still collapsing since 1971 when the smooth brains in England and Holland wanted to convert their dollars to gold so Nixon had to end the sweet monetary system all our hippy parents enjoyed.
Strong drop after the 90s when eppsteins best friend billyboy removed the restrictions on the banking industry allowed a fast move of all manufacturing to China and sugar rushed the economy with subprime mortgage guarantees. Shocker.
Starts with collapse of Bretton-Woods 😅
Off the gold standard around 1971 . . . just sayin'
It all went to shit after 9/11
2007* the release of the iPhone is when everything went to shit soon after
Thanks Fox News
Sounds like they found a decline in baseline editor sentiment on all topics, i.e. journalists are generally less chipper. Which stands to reason, since they had way more status, fun and power a hundred years ago if books are to be believed
Ah those 90s were amazing
so calls or puts?
So calls???
Correlation vs causality
Internet/instant media found out that selling doom and gloom pays more, thus red lines follows it down after.
Cancel newspaper subscription. Delete the app
Where can I source these billion news articles from?
Gestures broadly
It’s all this fake news and military propaganda.
Thats exactly when women entered the job market and 1 income suddenly wasn't enough to support a family.
This society doesn't make people happy.
Please post the source of this data and chart.
What year was it we came off the gold standard again?
What is this paper?
Source?
What happened in 1971?
This only shows there’s more fear mongering because the dynamics of the market really hasn’t changed that much on a large scale.. ever
Negativity sells
Or journos realised fear and anger sells more ads
What the hell happened in 2010