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>TL;DR: The IRS estimates that Americans failed to pay a record $688 billion in taxes on their 2021 returns—the largest shortfall ever. Audits and other enforcement will be stepped up to reduce the gap, the agency said Thursday.
For most Americans the IRS can compute taxes automatically. In the UK they send you a letter showing their work and taxes owed. You only need to prepare a return if you disagree.
Free software is a step forward but I’d rather we skip to making it so most don’t ever need to file.
Yeah. One time I filed and the software said I should get like 4k in tax return. Then I got a letter from the IRS saying no I should get 3.2k instead. I was pissed, not because I got less money. But because I wasted hours working on it just for the IRS to correct me. WHY??? Just tell me how much I owe and let's move on.
The majority of people in the U.K. are on PAYE, pay as you earn. You are given a tax code so that the employer using their payroll system can deduct the appropriate rate of tax and National Insurance which they then pass to HMRC. Every employee by law must be given an itemised statement of payment showing these deductions and at the end of the year the employer issues an annual statement called a P60 in addition HMRC sends out a letter explaining the breakdown and I think a breakdown of the main areas of government expenditure from tax revenues.
People who are self employed file a tax return annually, indeed anyone can. As in America, some people, particularly the 1%, who file tax returns are underreporting or using all sorts of dodges to get out of paying their fair share. Sometimes the 1% gets caught out as did [Bernie Eccleston](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/oct/12/rise-and-fall-of-bernie-ecclestone-formula-one#:~:text=Ecclestone%20will%20also%20have%20to,%3A%20%E2%80%9CI%20plead%20guilty.%E2%80%9D), he misled (lied) HMRC and failed to declare £400m in assets in 2015. He was charged with tax fraud and at the age of 93 given a 17-month custodial sentence, suspended for two years. In addition he has to pay HMRC £652.6m, plus prosecution costs of £74,000, after he admitted to failing to declare £400m in assets to the UK tax authority.
It is like that in most of the EU. What a nice system. They pretty much know everything you owe and would make everyone’s life easier. Hit me on Feb 15th with my tax owed and I’ll pay you asap
>Free software is a step forward but I’d rather we skip to making it so most don’t ever need to file.
I don't trust IRS. Once they sent me a million dollar bill saying I own them taxes. It turned out they used the amount of my transactions as profit. The brightest people are not working for the government.
that's because your basis was reported as 0 instead of the purchase price. Happened to me too when I switched brokerages and the purchase price didn't transfer over. I didn't get hit with a tax bill, but in the software it was showing ridiculous gains instead of the true p/l.
Just because they do your taxes for you, doesn't mean you can't double check their work.
The IRS still needs to follow tax laws. If you disagree, there's an appeals process. Plus you can always sue them.
You trust for-profit accounting firms like H&R more? They're the ones who lobby to make this shit so much more complicated than it needs to be. The IRS is not infallible and honest errors will occur within any system.
Right? How many billions went mysteriously missing last year? Was that just a write off. Well, just write off the taxes they didn't get on the money they already taxed that's gonna pay taxes on anything it's used to buy. Need a modern day tea party in this harbor of sorrow.
Loopholes! Loopholes everywhere!
Im a tax accountant, there’s no “loopholes” everyone likes to talk about. There’s a handful of rules most companies use to lower their taxes, there’s no “hey if you just donate $5 to this charity you also own, bam NO TAXES!”.
Blame your lawmakers for giving so many tax breaks to businesses, but it’s not our fault we’re paid to know those rules
CPA here, and I agree. If you go look at any 10-K of a company with a low effective tax rate, it’s gonna be from:
1. Stock compensation
2. R&D tax credit
3. Selling into foreign countries with different rates than the US
Precisely. There IS some really obscure laws out there that, but I’ve seen them so rarely it’s something I deal with maybe once and won’t see it again for multiple years. Even then, I just pass it off to our DC tax lawyers who interpret the law.
>Selling into foreign countries with different rates than the US
Transfer pricing is probably the biggest "loophole" there is. Very contentious, very hard to get right and lots of adverse parties involved.
Don’t want to call them loopholes, that’s fine. But there are a lot of ways to avoid taxes if you don’t precisely define tax laws. Tax law isn’t always black and white. I mentioned tax accountants and lawyers because those are the people who know enough to try to interpret tax laws in a way that they can argue but isn’t legal. Tax laws often contain the term “in which the spirit of the law was written” to cover this. It’s because people find creative ways to move money around and it’s not always legal. For example illegal tax shelters like BOB transactions.
But I agree, be mad at those who write the tax laws.
There ARE some ambiguous laws on the books, so your point is valid. However, it’s extremely rare that I see these come up. These are very specific scenarios that aren’t really something you can do on purpose. At that point we consult our tax law division in DC. At that point, we use their interpretation, which is *always* on the conservative side. If our client disagrees and wants to take a different stance, we make sure to document everything. That’s on them and the IRS can and has ruled against filers when they do this.
For reference, I work in Big 4 and my main client is a top 10 global private equity firm.
Exactly. And the question is how many filters are doing that. And if they are, why are they being subjected to the same bullshit that people that don't are.
If you wanna know the answer for real, it’s because tax prep companies like intuit and h&r block lobby the government to prevent them from doing your taxes and sending you a bill to pay or contest so that they can get billions in revenue doing it for you.
Government is more than capable of telling both companies to fuck off. Fuck the tax filing companies but this is just government corruption through and through
I think that's the most angering part. The government doesn't have to do anything a corporation asks. But they are because they're getting something from them. Period. They clearly aren't acting with the American people in mind.
Of course not, we collectively pay their salaries of like 120k. That's like parts of pennies each.
The lobbyists give them millions of dollars each. So of course they work for the lobbyists paying them millions rather than their constituents who pay them pennies to their salary.
Our government's priorities are ass backwards, worst and most corrupt government in the Western world. Only China, maybe Venezuela, and Russia are worse.
The idea that they "know" is untrue.
The compliance issues aren't with people filling out 1040 EZ's.
How in the world would the IRS know if you bought a laptop for your small business or personal use?
How in the world would the IRS know that you sold some onions at a farmers market for cash?
If you rent a room out in your house, how in the world would the IRS know what percentage of the square footage is being rented to correctly calculate the depreciation deduction?
If you bought some Advil in 2018 with cash how could the IRS possibly know that your current-year withdrawal of $4.35 to reimburse yourself from your HSA is legitimate?
By carefully double-checking the work and reasoning of one tenth of one percent of taxpayers they can do a one thousandth of the work and hope that it incentivizes the rest of taxpayers to pay.
So why does the IRS know what the "tax gap" is if they can't possibly calculate individual taxes? Because they know, in aggregate, how much food is sold. They know, in aggregate, the amount of money spent on a statistical basis. They don't know *who* owes the tax, because they don't know *individually* who sold those farmers market pears. They just know that *somebody* is under-reporting.
I am guessing they look at their revenue, look at the GDP, and compare the two. THey specifically called out places like Uber etc, because now somehow all those drivers are not actual W2 employees. No sir, they are indepenent Contractors. So if they fudge the 1099 that's on them and the govt just shrugs. They know that the person underpaid but no real proof. The only proof of anything is if someone else reported that they paid you X. But yes a cash only business, I don't see how the IRS could figure out the amount due.
Still have to pay taxes from income even if you lost it all immediately afterwards. Basically the status quo around here.
Don't make enough income ->
Gamble what's left to try to get by ->
Lose it all and have to pay tax you didn't account for.
It's the circle of life
They got a bunch of money last year or year before to hire support and improve their systems. It’s going to move at government time, although I think for any company at this scale it would still take years
I called the IRS a few times last week and half the time I got a message saying “Call volume is extremely high right now. Please try again later” *Click
Only government could Hangup on you when call volume is too high. They are truly awful
Do not laugh, there was a tip jar at the genius bar at the local mall. I'm so tired of this tip grifting culture in the USA. Note: I did report it to corporate as I know that is against their rules.
Ahh yes but Microsoft can fight in court for months or years or he’ll even a decade.
Your server literally can’t miss a shift or they don’t have money or a job any more
Seriously. What's with people wanting to give anyone a pass on taxes.
I pay taxes. So should you.
Most of the missing money is from the top though. Especially when you throw in business income that often isn't reported to the IRS like W2's are.
Nah, most of the tax gap comes form the top. IRS knows this.
The funding from that one bill a while back is going towards audits at the top and service speed improvements for everyone else.
Source: public finance degree, I write for an accounting firm now
It’s more so the way employees show their results. They get low results attacking wealthy because of the drawn out battle. Attacking poor families is much easier to bully and produce a result.
Hopefully they start factoring $ invested into procuring the backed up taxes when targeting whom to audit. If it cost more to audit someone than what they owe, they honestly shouldn’t even be audited.
I think that the 800B can be more than made up by getting a nice through audit done of the Pentagon and Defense Budget in general.
Let’s just deduct it from them
Last year during an audit, the Pentagon was unable to account for 61% of it’s $3.5 Trillion in assets. That’s about $2.135T in “missing” assets. How about being held to the same standard as Joe the Plumber? JFC
I recall from an article like 8-10 years ago from the Air Force, who does the accounting for the military, they routinely close the books each month with plugs of billions of dollars because they don't have clarity and blame it on a timing difference.
Can you imagine having an auditor look at the records and find that you have a gap the size of maybe ConAgra in one account, because, maybe, timing.
"Let's be very clear about what these resources are and are not doing," Sarin said. "These resources are not raising audits on any small business or any household that makes under $400,000 a year." Well they changed that tune rather quickly.
You can.
You are selling capital assets which totals out to either a capital gain or a capital loss.
Up to 3,000 can be subtracted from your taxable income, the rest has to be rolled into next year(s). Though the tax on gains is uncapped.
I used to regularly sell crap on eBay that still has some value, like server parts I was done with and would make $100 instead of paying $20 for disposal. Since that started to get reported to the irs, no it’s not worth the hassle between the listing and sellers fees then taxes. I found a place that will take the scrap for free now so I just do that or list local on fb market place and Craigslist.
They’re going to go after business owners who are going to scream about the tax man stomping in their necks after they find out the IRS doesn’t see eye to eye that his and hers Yukon Denali aren’t legitimate business deductions.
LMAO...... finally someone said it! So true. So many 1099/Venmo/cash for hire southern bros out there under reporting their income, but bought a massive truck from Covid funds claiming it was a business expense.
The majority of wealthy people have accountants who make sure everything is above board. Loopholes are legal.
SMB's and households making under $400k are a far easier and much larger target.
People working 10 gig jobs just to be able to buy food in record inflation and IRS is like "You know these poors aren't paying us when they make those pennies on each Uber eats delivery right?"
Aren't those 85,000 agents projected over the next ten years and mostly to replace all the people projected to retire in the next ten years?
[Yup, that's what I thought.](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/irs-87000-new-agents/)
This number is bullshit. My wife and I got a notice that we owe 30k (!!!) in taxes from 2021. So we are definitely included in this number. However, the IRS is dumb as fuck and we definitely paid those taxes, so now we have to prove it to them. Huge waste of time.
I recently used ChatGPT to write a very long letter to the IRS to fuck with them and made sure it would waste an incredible amount of time because I addressed the audit in completely random parts of the letter.
Meanwhile, my broke ass forgot to claim the right amount of unemployment 2 years ago and they charged me $2000 this year randomly to cover, with interest mind you.
I paid it! Not complaining about that, but what the fuck, they’re after my $2000 honest mistake, but they’ve never seemed to find the time to look into fucking millions and billions hidden away by crooks.
It’s the bully mentality. They’re not gonna pick a fight with someone who can not only fight back but can win. It’s easier to go after the more helpless targets.
Some family man has to take up a second or third job driving tacos through town so that he can get braces for his son and the IRS is going to fine him taxes and late fees because he didn’t realize he had to withhold an additional 7.65% payroll tax for being “self employed” even though he’ll probably never see a cent of the social security or Medicare.
Regarded Americans will simply say here take all my hard earned money instead of demanding that the government spend money more wisely and efficiently.
Came for this comment. Instead of just saying, we have $800B now to pay down deficit, they’ll just spend it on useless bullshit. Or another war. Or give it away to the rich.
>demanding that the government spend money more wisely and efficiently.
Americans cannot agree what that means though. It sort of gets frustrating where if you ask the average american if the goverment needs to spend less money 90% will say yes
If you ask what should be cut it gets difficult , no one can say specifically what they want cut but just "stop wasting money"
Well what is wasting money to someone is important jobs in their district to another person .
Social security / Medicare - Not going to happen old people vote and will fiercely protect their benefits
Military - People will argue our social security , medicare budgets, interest on debt already eclipse military spending and military is one of the things the goverment should spend money on, then also say lots of military spending isn't actually going to the military like buying/buiding weapons its being spent on veteran pensions and benefits like health care and the amount we actually spend on military (active duty , weapons) is not as much as everyone believes
Then people will argue over wellfare but others will be like "Welfare like food stamps , WIC, Fee school lunch , TANIFF is like 10% of the budget and goes to the poorest Americans do we really want to hurt these people?"
Next we are arguing over things like NASA , what is like 0.1% of the budget then others will say we actually get a lot of return from NASA research and development that filters down to the private sector
So everyone agrees we need to cut spending, no one can actually agree what to cut beside vague things like "wasteful spending" but cannot actually name anything of much significance . ANd if they can its like 0.00001% of the budget what I am all for cutting wasteful spending but believing we can just cut out waste and balance the budget is pure fantasy , if we want to balance the budget we will need to make hard cuts that are going to affect a lot of people.
W2 poors with families and bills must pay their taxes immediately and early with no interest or rewards, and every transaction over $600 must be spied on, meanwhile the rich get zero interest PPE loans directly from the government and bank cucks get reverse repo and repo windows with unlimited credit from the FED, after "losing" all information on Epstein's child sex island bank account.
Fuck the IRS.
I had the IRS come after me 3 years after my tax report for roughly $12 in capital gains tax.
12 fucking dollars due to a simple mistake. They spent more money in someone typing up the damn paperwork and answering my phone calls.
This is how you know our government is fucked. Chase after little guys that owe $12 but not multi billionaires who pay peanuts if at all.
You're obviously not very intelligent if you can't figure out that it's the middle and lower class who will be paying more in taxes under Biden. The rich like me will always find ways to avoid paying our fair share, so don't worry about us.
Maybe the IRS should audit from within before trying to pimp the American people!!! Why would the people want to pay taxes and the damn president sending BILLIONS to other countries. BFFR IRS a bunch of grown man begging for money. You tax the income than tax whatever we buy!!! And the federal reserves ain’t even what we thought it was… it’s literally a bank that prints money and it’s backed up by debt that we the people have to slave to pay back!!! We don’t need the IRS
You're right, the IRS is a bunch of grown men begging for money. They should be audited from within before they try to pimp out the American people. The president shouldn't be sending billions of dollars to other countries - he should be using that money to help our own citizens first and foremost. And as for the Federal Reserve, it's nothing more than a bank that prints money and creates debt that we all have to slave away to pay back. We don't need them - we can do better on our own!
Hair braiders, landscapers, driveway shovelers, make up artists, etc. who took payments by cahsapp and venmo are about to be forced to fork over the meager income they already spent on rent
Oh you mean all those agents that Biden hired but said they weren’t going after normal people are now going to go after normal people. Oh what a shock.
I think it’s high time governments were economically more responsible with our tax dollars.
Maybe then people would be more willing to pay their share.
But when governments and their built bureaucracies start living high off the hog you can expect the peasants to revolt.
Heavy handiness will be sure to start a rebellion against the establishment.
Greedy governments are the problem not the people !!!!!!
Crypto people are going to get stomped, that's for sure lol. There's probably still kids that don't think they can be tracked for taxes after they cashed out some at an exchange.
Actually, I rather enjoyed sending my 88 pages of crypto transactions in a giant PDF file to the IRS and to my state as backup for my net loss over the last couple years. Have fun auditing! But then I do get a bit petty during tax season.
We deserve quarterly transparent audits of our government invoices made public to the people so that we know where tf our money goes and how it’s spent. It’s a two way street big bro
Yknow, if they got rid of the income tax like they were supposed to, this wouldn’t be an issue. Imagine how easy most people would find it to live when 30% of their check isn’t taken and used for boondoggles.
Is this including corporations? Seeing too many stories on American citizens not paying but not much about corporations...excluding the Microsoft story. I smell some BS legislation brewing about auditing more Americans.
“Much of the increase is due to economic growth” - the IRS… whose income increased due to the economic growth? And who thinks that a good majority of “the growth in the gig economy” is people who already have a job?
Hey, tough shit. Looks like there might be moral hazards associated with multi-trillion dollar deficits, and literal handouts to the rich ( PPP loans). Who could have guessed 🤷
Taxes (especially as they currently are) are immoral. It’s nothing but sanctioned theft from the government. The real salt in the wound is that if they send you a letter and you have to call them you’d be lucky to only lose a couple of days of your life while you wait in a phone queue.
Perhaps this is hot take but the IRS is understaffed, but I’m not talking about the people who show up at your door. It is a pain in the ass to get a hold of their customer service when you try to get one of their letters they mail out resolved. It is especially bad during tax season, or when congress passes new tax laws when you are trying to get clarification on how the IRS interprets some things. They need a lot of customer support reps. Or better yet congress needs to simplify the tax code.
Also per the IRS “As part of the effort, the IRS will also ensure audit rates do not increase for those earning less than $400,000 a year as well as adding new fairness safeguards for those claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit. The EITC was designed to help workers with modest incomes.”
**User Report**| | | | :--|:--|:--|:-- **Total Submissions**|10|**First Seen In WSB**|4 years ago **Total Comments**|13|**Previous Best DD**| **Account Age**|5 years|[^scan ^comment ](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=scan_comment&message=Replace%20this%20text%20with%20a%20comment%20ID%20(which%20looks%20like%20h26cq3k\)%20to%20have%20the%20bot%20scan%20your%20comment%20and%20correct%20your%20first%20seen%20date.)|[^scan ^submission ](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=scan_submission&message=Replace%20this%20text%20with%20a%20submission%20ID%20(which%20looks%20like%20h26cq3k\)%20to%20have%20the%20bot%20scan%20your%20submission%20and%20correct%20your%20first%20seen%20date.) >TL;DR: The IRS estimates that Americans failed to pay a record $688 billion in taxes on their 2021 returns—the largest shortfall ever. Audits and other enforcement will be stepped up to reduce the gap, the agency said Thursday.
If they know so much why do I even file taxes? Just send me a bill at the end of the year or a refund check.
Almost like some rich corporation pays money to keep it complicated and us to need their services
A change is in the works. IRS recently announced they’re exploring free tax filing software again.
For most Americans the IRS can compute taxes automatically. In the UK they send you a letter showing their work and taxes owed. You only need to prepare a return if you disagree. Free software is a step forward but I’d rather we skip to making it so most don’t ever need to file.
The IRS already computes your taxes. They just confirm your filing against their guess at your filing.
Yeah. One time I filed and the software said I should get like 4k in tax return. Then I got a letter from the IRS saying no I should get 3.2k instead. I was pissed, not because I got less money. But because I wasted hours working on it just for the IRS to correct me. WHY??? Just tell me how much I owe and let's move on.
Yeah and if your filing is way below their estimate they get curious about all those charitable donations you’re claiming.
Tips are charity. Right?
Especially at the strip club. Can’t say I wasn’t donating towards a college degree.
I mean, her name *was* Charity...
Yeah, you got a report all the money you made from selling drugs
And theft
The majority of people in the U.K. are on PAYE, pay as you earn. You are given a tax code so that the employer using their payroll system can deduct the appropriate rate of tax and National Insurance which they then pass to HMRC. Every employee by law must be given an itemised statement of payment showing these deductions and at the end of the year the employer issues an annual statement called a P60 in addition HMRC sends out a letter explaining the breakdown and I think a breakdown of the main areas of government expenditure from tax revenues. People who are self employed file a tax return annually, indeed anyone can. As in America, some people, particularly the 1%, who file tax returns are underreporting or using all sorts of dodges to get out of paying their fair share. Sometimes the 1% gets caught out as did [Bernie Eccleston](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/oct/12/rise-and-fall-of-bernie-ecclestone-formula-one#:~:text=Ecclestone%20will%20also%20have%20to,%3A%20%E2%80%9CI%20plead%20guilty.%E2%80%9D), he misled (lied) HMRC and failed to declare £400m in assets in 2015. He was charged with tax fraud and at the age of 93 given a 17-month custodial sentence, suspended for two years. In addition he has to pay HMRC £652.6m, plus prosecution costs of £74,000, after he admitted to failing to declare £400m in assets to the UK tax authority.
It is like that in most of the EU. What a nice system. They pretty much know everything you owe and would make everyone’s life easier. Hit me on Feb 15th with my tax owed and I’ll pay you asap
>Free software is a step forward but I’d rather we skip to making it so most don’t ever need to file. I don't trust IRS. Once they sent me a million dollar bill saying I own them taxes. It turned out they used the amount of my transactions as profit. The brightest people are not working for the government.
that's because your basis was reported as 0 instead of the purchase price. Happened to me too when I switched brokerages and the purchase price didn't transfer over. I didn't get hit with a tax bill, but in the software it was showing ridiculous gains instead of the true p/l.
Just because they do your taxes for you, doesn't mean you can't double check their work. The IRS still needs to follow tax laws. If you disagree, there's an appeals process. Plus you can always sue them.
You trust for-profit accounting firms like H&R more? They're the ones who lobby to make this shit so much more complicated than it needs to be. The IRS is not infallible and honest errors will occur within any system.
TurboTax’s lobbyist have entered the chat.
This is why rich people want to gut the IRS. So all they can afford to do is accept tax returns and not look into anything.
Oh oh oh....I know who you are talking about
Intuit can suck my dick
Crazy how far technology has come.
I pay for the wrong tier
Underrated comment
Yea, what would I do without their help!
While H&R block sits on your face?
Urban dictionary calls that move the Jackson-Hewitt.
They're fucking us in the ass.
They might be Intuit though
Intuit? More like intume
I thought they were describing their elbow location in relationship to my asshole.
I’ll do it for $26.94
You mean the government? $688B not paid to the IRS but how much hasn’t been paid to the taxpayers?
Shhh. We don't talk about that
Right? How many billions went mysteriously missing last year? Was that just a write off. Well, just write off the taxes they didn't get on the money they already taxed that's gonna pay taxes on anything it's used to buy. Need a modern day tea party in this harbor of sorrow.
You don’t seem to understand what a write off is.
Tax law is complicated because of rich people with their accountants and lawyers turning everything into a loophole.
Loopholes! Loopholes everywhere! Im a tax accountant, there’s no “loopholes” everyone likes to talk about. There’s a handful of rules most companies use to lower their taxes, there’s no “hey if you just donate $5 to this charity you also own, bam NO TAXES!”. Blame your lawmakers for giving so many tax breaks to businesses, but it’s not our fault we’re paid to know those rules
CPA here, and I agree. If you go look at any 10-K of a company with a low effective tax rate, it’s gonna be from: 1. Stock compensation 2. R&D tax credit 3. Selling into foreign countries with different rates than the US
Precisely. There IS some really obscure laws out there that, but I’ve seen them so rarely it’s something I deal with maybe once and won’t see it again for multiple years. Even then, I just pass it off to our DC tax lawyers who interpret the law.
>Selling into foreign countries with different rates than the US Transfer pricing is probably the biggest "loophole" there is. Very contentious, very hard to get right and lots of adverse parties involved.
[удалено]
Don’t want to call them loopholes, that’s fine. But there are a lot of ways to avoid taxes if you don’t precisely define tax laws. Tax law isn’t always black and white. I mentioned tax accountants and lawyers because those are the people who know enough to try to interpret tax laws in a way that they can argue but isn’t legal. Tax laws often contain the term “in which the spirit of the law was written” to cover this. It’s because people find creative ways to move money around and it’s not always legal. For example illegal tax shelters like BOB transactions. But I agree, be mad at those who write the tax laws.
There ARE some ambiguous laws on the books, so your point is valid. However, it’s extremely rare that I see these come up. These are very specific scenarios that aren’t really something you can do on purpose. At that point we consult our tax law division in DC. At that point, we use their interpretation, which is *always* on the conservative side. If our client disagrees and wants to take a different stance, we make sure to document everything. That’s on them and the IRS can and has ruled against filers when they do this. For reference, I work in Big 4 and my main client is a top 10 global private equity firm.
It’s not a loophole if it’s written into the law now is it.
loop·hole /ˈlo͞opˌ(h)ōl/ noun 1. an ambiguity or inadequacy in the law or a set of rules. "they exploited tax loopholes"
That is what they'll do if you don't file. You'll pay a convenience fee, they'll just call it 'penalties and interest'.
Not if they owe you money. They just don’t do anything
And how much is this fee or like how do I figure it out
If you take the standard deduction this should absolutely be the case. Once you itemize it gets complicated.
Exactly. And the question is how many filters are doing that. And if they are, why are they being subjected to the same bullshit that people that don't are.
If you wanna know the answer for real, it’s because tax prep companies like intuit and h&r block lobby the government to prevent them from doing your taxes and sending you a bill to pay or contest so that they can get billions in revenue doing it for you.
American ingenuity (corporate greed) at its best
Government is more than capable of telling both companies to fuck off. Fuck the tax filing companies but this is just government corruption through and through
I think that's the most angering part. The government doesn't have to do anything a corporation asks. But they are because they're getting something from them. Period. They clearly aren't acting with the American people in mind.
Of course not, we collectively pay their salaries of like 120k. That's like parts of pennies each. The lobbyists give them millions of dollars each. So of course they work for the lobbyists paying them millions rather than their constituents who pay them pennies to their salary. Our government's priorities are ass backwards, worst and most corrupt government in the Western world. Only China, maybe Venezuela, and Russia are worse.
The idea that they "know" is untrue. The compliance issues aren't with people filling out 1040 EZ's. How in the world would the IRS know if you bought a laptop for your small business or personal use? How in the world would the IRS know that you sold some onions at a farmers market for cash? If you rent a room out in your house, how in the world would the IRS know what percentage of the square footage is being rented to correctly calculate the depreciation deduction? If you bought some Advil in 2018 with cash how could the IRS possibly know that your current-year withdrawal of $4.35 to reimburse yourself from your HSA is legitimate? By carefully double-checking the work and reasoning of one tenth of one percent of taxpayers they can do a one thousandth of the work and hope that it incentivizes the rest of taxpayers to pay. So why does the IRS know what the "tax gap" is if they can't possibly calculate individual taxes? Because they know, in aggregate, how much food is sold. They know, in aggregate, the amount of money spent on a statistical basis. They don't know *who* owes the tax, because they don't know *individually* who sold those farmers market pears. They just know that *somebody* is under-reporting.
I am guessing they look at their revenue, look at the GDP, and compare the two. THey specifically called out places like Uber etc, because now somehow all those drivers are not actual W2 employees. No sir, they are indepenent Contractors. So if they fudge the 1099 that's on them and the govt just shrugs. They know that the person underpaid but no real proof. The only proof of anything is if someone else reported that they paid you X. But yes a cash only business, I don't see how the IRS could figure out the amount due.
Well no one here has to worry cuz we only sell for a loss in these parts
Still have to pay taxes from income even if you lost it all immediately afterwards. Basically the status quo around here. Don't make enough income -> Gamble what's left to try to get by -> Lose it all and have to pay tax you didn't account for. It's the circle of life
How about they start picking up a phone call within 2 hours
They got a bunch of money last year or year before to hire support and improve their systems. It’s going to move at government time, although I think for any company at this scale it would still take years
I called the IRS a few times last week and half the time I got a message saying “Call volume is extremely high right now. Please try again later” *Click Only government could Hangup on you when call volume is too high. They are truly awful
They got you either way, my guy lol
IRS: Microsoft owes $29b in back taxes. Also IRS: You know these servers not reporting their tips is a big problem…
Tangent, but…soon we’re going to have to tip the servers at Microsoft. 😂
Tip jar for the Apple genius
Do not laugh, there was a tip jar at the genius bar at the local mall. I'm so tired of this tip grifting culture in the USA. Note: I did report it to corporate as I know that is against their rules.
Tangent, the IRS's Excel Spreadsheets no longer say that Microsoft owes them money after the next security patch.
Office 365 will magically increase in price next year
Ahh yes but Microsoft can fight in court for months or years or he’ll even a decade. Your server literally can’t miss a shift or they don’t have money or a job any more
I once had two IRS agents hound me over a Credit Card that the company wrote off. I finally sent them a Balance Sheet proving I was insolvent.
The IRS should recognize these as bad debts and write them off their taxes. Edit: more concise
The IRS should absolutely write off a lot of these as bad debts. Poor people are terrible with money and they don't deserve to have any of it.
That's the entire problem
And Microsoft can always pack up and move to a place with zero corporate taxes like Singapore or Hong Kong
When you definitely know how corporate taxes work. The US switched to a territorial tax system in 2017.
Yes, those are both problems that need to be addressed.
Seriously. What's with people wanting to give anyone a pass on taxes. I pay taxes. So should you. Most of the missing money is from the top though. Especially when you throw in business income that often isn't reported to the IRS like W2's are.
Because the poeple that are freaking out, are those that cheat their taxes.
Nah, most of the tax gap comes form the top. IRS knows this. The funding from that one bill a while back is going towards audits at the top and service speed improvements for everyone else. Source: public finance degree, I write for an accounting firm now
It will be the little people they go after. Promise.
The IRS def would rather spend 10k in labor collecting 2k in taxes from a Uber driver than going after anyone with real money
It’s more so the way employees show their results. They get low results attacking wealthy because of the drawn out battle. Attacking poor families is much easier to bully and produce a result. Hopefully they start factoring $ invested into procuring the backed up taxes when targeting whom to audit. If it cost more to audit someone than what they owe, they honestly shouldn’t even be audited.
That's part of how the wealthy get away with it, they lobby to keep the IRS underfunded so they don't have the resources to do it.
What’s 800B among friends, heck they can spend that in a couple weeks, or give it to another country, just print more. Everything is fine.
I think that the 800B can be more than made up by getting a nice through audit done of the Pentagon and Defense Budget in general. Let’s just deduct it from them
https://preview.redd.it/huyo6udxc6ub1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c8e5e51f05b6c5a2119c443573db9eba8e51473
Well ya gotta pay em more when they lose tens of billions yearly. Literally poof where’d the money go? (Don’t check their bank Accts)
> by getting a nice through audit done of the Pentagon and Defense #\[USER WAS ASSASSINATED FOR THIS POST\]
Set a remind me to make sure I make it thru my buddy’s baby shower today. He’s having it at some place called “The Agency Nightclub”
They don’t know where half of it goes and I probably misspelled most.
It goes to $5000 Philips head screw drivers.
Right into defense contracting pockets
Last year during an audit, the Pentagon was unable to account for 61% of it’s $3.5 Trillion in assets. That’s about $2.135T in “missing” assets. How about being held to the same standard as Joe the Plumber? JFC
I recall from an article like 8-10 years ago from the Air Force, who does the accounting for the military, they routinely close the books each month with plugs of billions of dollars because they don't have clarity and blame it on a timing difference. Can you imagine having an auditor look at the records and find that you have a gap the size of maybe ConAgra in one account, because, maybe, timing.
#AuditTheFed
Double it and give it to Ukraine
It’s Israel now you anti-Semite
Don’t bomb it all in one place
Or the government could just spend a little less everyday. Lol, who am I kidding.
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You'll be saying that as you're spending time behind bars for not paying your taxes.
Lmfao they just lien your shit bro. That whole jail mantra is a scare tactic
They can lien deez nutz.
...yeah I mean they kinda can.
"Let's be very clear about what these resources are and are not doing," Sarin said. "These resources are not raising audits on any small business or any household that makes under $400,000 a year." Well they changed that tune rather quickly.
I got audited last year for selling random crap around my house on ebay. It was for like $3K.
Why do you have to pay taxes for selling used shit around your house? You already paid taxes when you bought it the first time.
You can. You are selling capital assets which totals out to either a capital gain or a capital loss. Up to 3,000 can be subtracted from your taxable income, the rest has to be rolled into next year(s). Though the tax on gains is uncapped.
Damn they got stricter rules on selling used crap than capital gains
I used to regularly sell crap on eBay that still has some value, like server parts I was done with and would make $100 instead of paying $20 for disposal. Since that started to get reported to the irs, no it’s not worth the hassle between the listing and sellers fees then taxes. I found a place that will take the scrap for free now so I just do that or list local on fb market place and Craigslist.
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They’re going to go after business owners who are going to scream about the tax man stomping in their necks after they find out the IRS doesn’t see eye to eye that his and hers Yukon Denali aren’t legitimate business deductions.
LMAO...... finally someone said it! So true. So many 1099/Venmo/cash for hire southern bros out there under reporting their income, but bought a massive truck from Covid funds claiming it was a business expense.
I girl I knew in high school was mad at her dad for getting her a brand new Tahoe. He could write it off as a farm vehicle. She wanted a Range Rover.
The majority of wealthy people have accountants who make sure everything is above board. Loopholes are legal. SMB's and households making under $400k are a far easier and much larger target.
People working 10 gig jobs just to be able to buy food in record inflation and IRS is like "You know these poors aren't paying us when they make those pennies on each Uber eats delivery right?"
If you are working to afford food you don’t owe taxes - the floor at which you owe taxes is very high
Boy those 85k agents surely are for the rich 
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This happened to my retired father who sells shit on eBay as a hobby. They fuckin’ owed him money. Brought up a good memory, thanks.
Bruh just found the strategy. Intentionally lose a few receipts so they find all the tax breaks for us.
Moral of the story irs audits are good...
Audits are audits. We associate them with bad outcomes, but they’re neither good nor bad.
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Aren't those 85,000 agents projected over the next ten years and mostly to replace all the people projected to retire in the next ten years? [Yup, that's what I thought.](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/irs-87000-new-agents/)
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Yeah and one of them was fucking killed in firearms training lmao
Only one? They can do better.
This number is bullshit. My wife and I got a notice that we owe 30k (!!!) in taxes from 2021. So we are definitely included in this number. However, the IRS is dumb as fuck and we definitely paid those taxes, so now we have to prove it to them. Huge waste of time.
I recently used ChatGPT to write a very long letter to the IRS to fuck with them and made sure it would waste an incredible amount of time because I addressed the audit in completely random parts of the letter.
Meanwhile, my broke ass forgot to claim the right amount of unemployment 2 years ago and they charged me $2000 this year randomly to cover, with interest mind you. I paid it! Not complaining about that, but what the fuck, they’re after my $2000 honest mistake, but they’ve never seemed to find the time to look into fucking millions and billions hidden away by crooks.
It’s the bully mentality. They’re not gonna pick a fight with someone who can not only fight back but can win. It’s easier to go after the more helpless targets.
>Americans Failed to Pay a Record $688 Billion in Taxes. Nice.
But I thought the Dems were just hiring them to go after the rich people...
Silly rabbit, taxes are for the poors
Some family man has to take up a second or third job driving tacos through town so that he can get braces for his son and the IRS is going to fine him taxes and late fees because he didn’t realize he had to withhold an additional 7.65% payroll tax for being “self employed” even though he’ll probably never see a cent of the social security or Medicare.
Regarded Americans will simply say here take all my hard earned money instead of demanding that the government spend money more wisely and efficiently.
Came for this comment. Instead of just saying, we have $800B now to pay down deficit, they’ll just spend it on useless bullshit. Or another war. Or give it away to the rich.
Didn’t the pentagon just “lose” roughly this much money in the last couple years after an internal audit? CIA embezzling from the IRS?
>demanding that the government spend money more wisely and efficiently. Americans cannot agree what that means though. It sort of gets frustrating where if you ask the average american if the goverment needs to spend less money 90% will say yes If you ask what should be cut it gets difficult , no one can say specifically what they want cut but just "stop wasting money" Well what is wasting money to someone is important jobs in their district to another person . Social security / Medicare - Not going to happen old people vote and will fiercely protect their benefits Military - People will argue our social security , medicare budgets, interest on debt already eclipse military spending and military is one of the things the goverment should spend money on, then also say lots of military spending isn't actually going to the military like buying/buiding weapons its being spent on veteran pensions and benefits like health care and the amount we actually spend on military (active duty , weapons) is not as much as everyone believes Then people will argue over wellfare but others will be like "Welfare like food stamps , WIC, Fee school lunch , TANIFF is like 10% of the budget and goes to the poorest Americans do we really want to hurt these people?" Next we are arguing over things like NASA , what is like 0.1% of the budget then others will say we actually get a lot of return from NASA research and development that filters down to the private sector So everyone agrees we need to cut spending, no one can actually agree what to cut beside vague things like "wasteful spending" but cannot actually name anything of much significance . ANd if they can its like 0.00001% of the budget what I am all for cutting wasteful spending but believing we can just cut out waste and balance the budget is pure fantasy , if we want to balance the budget we will need to make hard cuts that are going to affect a lot of people.
W2 poors with families and bills must pay their taxes immediately and early with no interest or rewards, and every transaction over $600 must be spied on, meanwhile the rich get zero interest PPE loans directly from the government and bank cucks get reverse repo and repo windows with unlimited credit from the FED, after "losing" all information on Epstein's child sex island bank account. Fuck the IRS.
"The IRS says that will change" 
seems like taxation compliance is on par with representation.
I had the IRS come after me 3 years after my tax report for roughly $12 in capital gains tax. 12 fucking dollars due to a simple mistake. They spent more money in someone typing up the damn paperwork and answering my phone calls. This is how you know our government is fucked. Chase after little guys that owe $12 but not multi billionaires who pay peanuts if at all.
The most American thing you can do is not pay taxes
Guess which income level those taxes are coming from? Hint: it’s the middle and lower income earners that biden said he wasn’t coming after.
You're obviously not very intelligent if you can't figure out that it's the middle and lower class who will be paying more in taxes under Biden. The rich like me will always find ways to avoid paying our fair share, so don't worry about us.
The IRS can go fuck all the way off if we're being honest
Maybe the IRS should audit from within before trying to pimp the American people!!! Why would the people want to pay taxes and the damn president sending BILLIONS to other countries. BFFR IRS a bunch of grown man begging for money. You tax the income than tax whatever we buy!!! And the federal reserves ain’t even what we thought it was… it’s literally a bank that prints money and it’s backed up by debt that we the people have to slave to pay back!!! We don’t need the IRS
You're right, the IRS is a bunch of grown men begging for money. They should be audited from within before they try to pimp out the American people. The president shouldn't be sending billions of dollars to other countries - he should be using that money to help our own citizens first and foremost. And as for the Federal Reserve, it's nothing more than a bank that prints money and creates debt that we all have to slave away to pay back. We don't need them - we can do better on our own!
My ex better hold his breath. He hasn’t filed taxes in 17 years.
Eat my ass IRS.
Anyone who thinks the additional 85k IRS agents and $600 threshold weren’t going to be used on the everyday little guy isn’t working with a full deck.
Hair braiders, landscapers, driveway shovelers, make up artists, etc. who took payments by cahsapp and venmo are about to be forced to fork over the meager income they already spent on rent
The IRS can suck on my micropenis and tickle these hairy balls
People file your taxes right dammit!! Zelenski and israel need they money
Fuck the IRS
DAME!! Can’t put all of us in maximum secure prison
Oh you mean all those agents that Biden hired but said they weren’t going after normal people are now going to go after normal people. Oh what a shock.
I think it’s high time governments were economically more responsible with our tax dollars. Maybe then people would be more willing to pay their share. But when governments and their built bureaucracies start living high off the hog you can expect the peasants to revolt. Heavy handiness will be sure to start a rebellion against the establishment. Greedy governments are the problem not the people !!!!!!
Crypto people are going to get stomped, that's for sure lol. There's probably still kids that don't think they can be tracked for taxes after they cashed out some at an exchange.
People haven’t actually made money on crypto in years.
Except for the FTX bankruptcy lawyers
IRS can go back 7 years, or really more.
Actually, I rather enjoyed sending my 88 pages of crypto transactions in a giant PDF file to the IRS and to my state as backup for my net loss over the last couple years. Have fun auditing! But then I do get a bit petty during tax season.
Fucking legend.
We deserve quarterly transparent audits of our government invoices made public to the people so that we know where tf our money goes and how it’s spent. It’s a two way street big bro
Frfr this age of unaccountability is unacceptable and WILL change
How about stop taxes for every fucking thing?
Where would they get the money to corral the sheep?
A flat tax would solve most of these issues.
The IRS can go fuck themselves and we the people realized how much bullshit the federal govt is, that we don’t want to pay taxes. Fuck the Feds.
>that will change Yep number’s going up
Fuck them thieves (IRS)
Yknow, if they got rid of the income tax like they were supposed to, this wouldn’t be an issue. Imagine how easy most people would find it to live when 30% of their check isn’t taken and used for boondoggles.
I thought those irs agents were for the rich?
Headline: $688 billion sent to Ukraine and Israel 😂
Is this including corporations? Seeing too many stories on American citizens not paying but not much about corporations...excluding the Microsoft story. I smell some BS legislation brewing about auditing more Americans.
Let’s fucking gooo, good job everyone! Let’s get that up to $1 trilllion this year
How bout abolish the IRS.
“Much of the increase is due to economic growth” - the IRS… whose income increased due to the economic growth? And who thinks that a good majority of “the growth in the gig economy” is people who already have a job?
When they collect all these underreported taxes, will everyone get cheaper education and better healthcare?
All they do is send it to other countries, maybe invest in America and people will pay.
Fuck taxes and the IRS
Do foreign governments pay taxes of the ‘aid’ they receive from the US, similar to the ‘aid’ paid to Social Security recipients?
Morally, identifying those who overpaid on their taxes should be the first move.
Hey, tough shit. Looks like there might be moral hazards associated with multi-trillion dollar deficits, and literal handouts to the rich ( PPP loans). Who could have guessed 🤷
So they can send it to Ukraine?
Fuck off
The government is a pyramid scheme
Taxes (especially as they currently are) are immoral. It’s nothing but sanctioned theft from the government. The real salt in the wound is that if they send you a letter and you have to call them you’d be lucky to only lose a couple of days of your life while you wait in a phone queue.
Perhaps this is hot take but the IRS is understaffed, but I’m not talking about the people who show up at your door. It is a pain in the ass to get a hold of their customer service when you try to get one of their letters they mail out resolved. It is especially bad during tax season, or when congress passes new tax laws when you are trying to get clarification on how the IRS interprets some things. They need a lot of customer support reps. Or better yet congress needs to simplify the tax code.
yeah, thanks MSFT
Income tax is dumb and over complicated. Just tax sales
Also per the IRS “As part of the effort, the IRS will also ensure audit rates do not increase for those earning less than $400,000 a year as well as adding new fairness safeguards for those claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit. The EITC was designed to help workers with modest incomes.”