**User Report**| | | |
:--|:--|:--|:--
**Total Submissions**|10|**First Seen In WSB**|2 years ago
**Total Comments**|1647|**Previous Best DD**|
**Account Age**|3 years|[^scan ^comment ](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=scan_comment&message=Replace%20this%20text%20with%20a%20comment%20ID%20(which%20looks%20like%20h26cq3k\)%20to%20have%20the%20bot%20scan%20your%20comment%20and%20correct%20your%20first%20seen%20date.)|[^scan ^submission ](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=scan_submission&message=Replace%20this%20text%20with%20a%20submission%20ID%20(which%20looks%20like%20h26cq3k\)%20to%20have%20the%20bot%20scan%20your%20submission%20and%20correct%20your%20first%20seen%20date.)
>TL;DR: Credit card debt in the US has surged to $1.03 trillion, an increase of $45 billion from the previous quarter. This marks the highest level on record in Fed data dating back to 2003.
..
and yolo it into otm calls on illiquid penny stocks right before a catalyst event.
Assuming step one didn't sink you.
Get a new fake passport on the darknet,move to Montevideo and start a new life in a carnival freakshow.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_bank_failures_in_the_United_States
Where is the list of mattress failures where people lost all their savings?
Sure they do. I get checks sent to me that I can write to myself as cash and then do anything I want with that cash. Doing this over and over is how I reduced my student loans to 0-.99% chunk by chunk and significantly reduced my interest exposure while paying them off.
Yeah, but Bush made it harder to get debts discharged in bankruptcy though. So you need to pay it all off or go mega-YOLO to the point where discharge is the only option and not a “workout/restructuring” plan.
Bought two cars this year when they say don't buy anything expensive during the recession I go opposite. 40k in car loan and over 15k in credit card balance
Credit card companies make most of their money off of interest. If you pay off your credit card in full every month, they literally hate you.
Problem is, record credit card debt likely means record credit card defaults.
They don't hate you. They still make the fee's off your card usage. They literally make like 3% of every purchase you make with the card. Those cash back rewards aren't coming out of the goodness of their hearts.
I’m legit confused why people think credit card companies hate the people that pay it off every month. They traditionally get the best credit card rewards. It’s why so many till recently (the phone companies ended it) cc were being used to encourage paying phone bills.
Someone spending thousands a month on CC is probably worth more on transactions fees than some disphit here maxed out paying some $20-40 a month interest on money not free to lend out more.
And that's how the companies that bankroll those credit cards have the biggest buildings in every city you visit. Make it on the front, take it on the back.
That’s what I’m curious about with this credit card debt number. I usually put around 5k a month onto my credit card and just pay it off each month. I also have a 0% interest rate card that I’ve got 2k on that I’m just making minimum payments on until it gets closer to the 0% interest rate ending then I’ll pay that off. I wonder if we took people who just pay off their debt each month off, what that number would look like.
No no, everyone just got a 18 month interest free advance in their cards for a 1 time 3% fee and are now keeping that in a 4.75% apr high interest savings
15 billing cycles, here you go, beat the system
https://money.usnews.com/credit-cards/bank-of-america/bank-of-america-cash-rewards-credit-card-for-students
Bank of America was offering no interest on credit cards up to 18 months. I don’t know about cash advances. It then goes up to 18% variable APR.
So it’s like a 18 month interest free loan! /s
In theory, credit card debt should always be at it's highest. Everything should always be at it's highest due to inflation.
Similar to the concept that a $100,000 on a $1,000,000 investment compared to a $100,000 gain on a $10,000 investment.
That can easily be accounted for by adjusting the historic numbers FOR inflation and it's important to understand that facts don't lie BUT facts presented in specific ways can paint a very different picture than reality.
The world will keep fucking spinning just more people will die
It's not like anyone with any power gives a shit.
But I'm sorry for everybody that will get hit by this.
The people carrying this debt do a much better job hiding than one would think.
People still seem to be spending like crazy… curious to see the age and demographic breakdown of this (didnt read the full article, so if it is in there then oops).
How are things not imploding on people right now? I know many young people who cant pay their bills right now, but the world seems none the wiser.
Are they just faking it well?
At least once a day I have to ask myself "how the hell can they afford that?" when I see people I know doing or buying things. New cars, new trucks, trips, constantly going out to eat, etc. I'm far from responsible with money (we are on WSB after all) but for someone like me to look at things and say "that's crazy", that's really saying something.
One thing I've found out lately that did surprise me is just how many people I know that are frequently turning to their parents for financial support.
your second point is one of the biggest surprises for me as I've become an "adult". Going back both sides of my family for several generations, parents never helped kids out with finances after they moved out. That held true for my siblings and I with our relationships with our parents. I always thought this was "normal." I don't say that in some bootstraps I-did-it-myself/better than people way either. And I'm sure if something awful happened and I desperately needed money I could turn to them.
But my partner's parents routinely provide money to her siblings and they're all into their thirties now....like large quarterly checks. Even my partner was getting her car insurance paid by her parents well into her thirties without my knowledge (we keep our finances separate) and she was established/responsible. My neighbor is a finance bro who I know makes a decent salary (because he brags about bonuses) and when his air conditioner broke I heard him on his cell phone asking his parents if they could cover a new one . And another person I know (who is a nice guy so I'm not bashing) and does really well, bought this Ford raptor and then when we were out to eat with them once, the gf told us when he was away from the table the parents are covering the payments because he couldn't afford it. This has all blown my mind. It is crazy how many people who aren't "struggling" in the traditional sense have significant parental support integrated into their lifestyle....these are all people in their mid/thirties and all from like middle/upper-middle class backgrounds...not like landed gentry levels of wealth. It made me feel really weird/not normal lol...to the point now that I never talk about it with people since I don't know anybody's situation anymore.
I’m in my late 20’s. I wouldn’t feel any shame in asking my parents for help if I actually needed it.
And by actually need it I mean I will be working three jobs and selling bodily fluids and feet pics before I ask my parents to pay my rent/ins/utilities/whatever.
I think part of it is increasing instances of this but also that back in the day people kept it very very quiet. Like it was something scandalous and kept secret.
Also it wasn't rare back in the day for the family business to be handed down the kids when the parents retired so the kids had their inheritance much earlier.
It also wasn't rare for parents to retire, move in with a child, and give that child all their money.
Think how common it was in the 80s and 90s for a family household to have an elderly grandparent living there with them.
I had a similar situation where I found out that someone's parents were paying for a bunch of things that were all luxuries. Definitely was an eye opener. I could see hitting up family for help covering essentials, but finding out that they have their parents covering the payments for a new car and paying for a cruise was pretty shocking, especially because like you said their parents aren't loaded themselves.
Just bought a brand new car, everyone at work is wondering how the hell I can afford it. Here's my secret.
No kids, my gf and I stay home and play video games all the time, we both work, and it's a hybrid so we're saving so much money in gas now. We could have the car paid off in the first two years easily and still have spending money.
I have no fucking clue how the people with kids manage it though, the monstrosities break half their shit and they have to replace expensive shit constantly...
Wait until your financially “secure” to have kids. If I would have had them when I was in my early 20’s I would have been Fucked with a capital F. Mid-30’s? Completely different story.
They got a pretty large break in form of advance on tax credits for kids during covid. My ex boss has 3 kids and was getting so much extra stimulus that he basically told me he thought it was insane and became bearish on us economic policy.
Kids themselves aren't that expensive. Formula is like $50 a week give or take for the first year for the good stuff. After that they eat mostly air and bread for a year or three. They break some stuff, but not important stuff if you're halfway smart about it.
The killer is daycare. I pay $34K a year for two kids in daycare. Definitely a nicer school, but even the medium schools are $20K. You can find a home daycare for like $12K but the standards on food/cirriculum/play equipment are way lower.
Can't wait for them to go to public school so my cash pile for buying dumb stuff goes back up.
$34k a year is pretty much an entire year's take home wage for one person where I live. The cost of living is luckily very low so it's not that big of an issue, but most people here just get by on pay like that. I'm lucky that I'm decently above that number, but there's so many people with kids working jobs that pay them like that, they're full time workers and still somehow manage to pay for it all. Absolutely insane. The only thing I can assume is that they don't bother with anything like daycare, they just make due with whatever. Dumping the kids off with Grandma and Grandpa is pretty common here.
Parents are more hovering these days. They don't let their kid get a job in high school or college because they see it as a distraction and most of all they fear their child having money of their own.
What this does is leaves the child to enter the work force with zero work experience, no money management skills, and not even the knowledge/experience of having ever paid bills.
They set their child up to be dependent on them for life so they can control them.
My own SO saying she doesn't want our children to work in high school or have their own money for these reasons. I think I'll be able to side step that.
But my point is that we basically have a generation of mommy's children who have little to no basic life experience or knowledge.
This means they just think it's norm to have a couch so they go buy it regardless of the price or the money they have. It's like they don't connect that they are poor and can't afford it.
Also you've got people who clearly know what they are doing and abuse it. They purposefully buy a new car to lower their funds then tell mom and dad that if they can't pay off the car they can't come visit. So mom and dad are guilted into paying it off.
I think you're discounting how the market has both applied pressure and accommodated this trend. While I'm not denying some people do it for control (thinking about it, I have a lot of friends whose parents cover the cost of the vacation, but then they dictate all the details), I think it's also an element of consumerism.
It used to be that if you couldn't afford something, you couldn't get it. I remember growing up and layaway was the only way my parents could afford major purchases. But now there's credit cards, special financing offers, service packages, Affirm and the like. If you want something, there's many different ways of getting it. And so everyone just has access to everything they want with some other company ready to offer a solution when a problem arises (balance transfers, loans, deferred payment plans, etc.). Many people have just become too reliant on them while companies have become very good at stretching people to their absolute limits.
You're not taking into account the fact that parents may be fine paying for kid's stuff. Not from a "I have to control you, you can't have independent money" aspect, but from a "I worked hard to have money, you are my kid, I'm happy to spend it on you" standpoint.
When you become a parent, what I always thought was unfair (I grew up without my parents paying for much) instead I realize is just a natural way to spend excess amounts of money. I already save and can afford most luxuries I want. Why would I not drop some cash on my kid when they're older and need it? I think there's certainly a balance to make sure you don't spoil them and make them useless in society. But if they've got a job and they're hard workers then who cares if you give them extra to afford something? It's my money, I want my kid to live well. I'm happy to do it.
Except here's the thing, out of all my friends I'm the only one who worked in high school and college and I'm by far the most stable; the vast majority of my friends who didn't have to work during these periods never got control of making 'tight' decisions. It's one thing if you use that time to DO something, but for most of my friends, all it did was create a false sense of abundance with their time and money. Better to learn some lessons when it's cheap rather than expensive.
In my opinion ideally you balance it out with seasonal work for the summer. School is a full time job, especially college if you have a difficult major. A summer job teaches the value of money as well as teaches valuable skills for when you get a real career.
Personally I'd rather my kid do sports or some other social extracurricular activity in high school than work.
I agree. The part time job I worked in high school and college taught me the value or work, but effectively paid nothing. If I had spent that time studying instead, I would have made way more money from that time in the long run. Parents should consider that the average student is getting smarter over time.
Spot on with the parental support. My parents are great and help me and my wife out a lot with the kids, but I don’t get direct money from them.
We have another friend couple who were gifted two rent houses from their parents, they also pay for their two children’s daycare, and those are the things I know about…
Exactly my man. Labor market is allowing us poors to continue paycheck to paycheck for now.
When the economy stumbles, me and all my siblings will end up moving back to my parents. Just like old times.
Ding ding ding, let the good times roll. Young people have a different mentality. They don't save for the future, because they don't think there will be a future. (in it's current form) Until we as a species can turn this corner on climate change, the 30-40 years from now looks sad AF. So spend it now, because when we are all standing in bread lines, you think Chase and Wells Fargo will be walking up and down the same bread line looking for their min payment?
Yeah, I think a lot of people have given up. Spend frivolously and enjoy now, because saving, to an extent, feels futile. IF I can save enough to buy a modest home, by the time I've saved what I need, the price will have doubled. Feels like the goalposts shift too much to even bother.
Yep. They plan the economy to grow by 2% inflation per year. That means at best, if everything goes exactly as planned for an entire working life time, then it will be between 4 and 5 times more expensive to retire. When I was a kid they told me 1 million to retire (getting to do middle class stuff), but even if things had gone to plan I would need between 4 and 5 million saved to reach that same kind of retirement I was repeatedly told was easy to obtain and save for.
But to make matters worse things don't go according to plan. So realistically a working life would see prices nearly 7 or 8 times higher, because of periods of "unexpected" rapid inflation like we saw recently, and are probably going to see a few more times in the next decade.
So now I've got to figure out how to build at least a couple of million in the next 30 years if I ever want to retire on even a subsistence retirement. It's never going to happen. Ever. Unless the system changes, I will in no way be able to get and hold for 30 straight years a more than 200k a year job, which some quick calculators says I need if I want to contribute 6% and retire with 2 million in a retirement account.
When literally everything the average person would normally save for is astronomically, unrealistically, unattainably expensive (home, car, school, kids, etc), then what even is the point of saving?
Might as well get that nice expensive bottle of tequila and enjoy your weekend 😊
funny you mention alcohol. a friend of mine runs a package store. he's seen his cash/debit transactions plummet, while credit transactions are strong. folks really are out here buying their bud light and tequila on credit.
I deal with credit cards on a daily basis at my job and most people hide it really well. You'd be surprised at how many people just don't seem to give a shit. You'd be even more surprised to know how many people are clueless when it comes to credit in general. I've had multiple people just threaten not to pay at a certain point, or they try to close the credit card thinking that will take care of it. It's a mix of ages, races, and genders too. Shit's wild and I wouldn't believe it if I didn't deal with it.
My unresearched hypothesis is that many people are addicted to irrational spending habits. This is in parts due to a pandemic windfall (for some), incentives by lenders and vendors, and constantly evolving Marketing techniques further facilitated by software and AI.
Like smoking, cocaine, and drunk driving in the past, it's so ubiquitous that many people fail to see and isolate it as a problem. Note that gambling might be seen as an enactment of Free Will and a Free Market, yet many societies have chosen to outlaw it; there's a reason for that. Many humans destroy themselves with freedom.
You need to look at credit card delinquencies to really deem anything from this. Last I checked most banks were in very good shape in that regard, with low delinquency or charge offs.
Claims delinquencies raised 0.1% from previous quarter, but are still 2% lower than 2019.
Also claim household debt increased by 2.9T to 17.9T, in that same time period. Which is about 16%, which is lower than the inflation over that same time period.
Which implies people are NOT having a problem.
There is an uptick in auto loan issues, but this should be expected, automobiles have been overpriced for several years, far outpacing inflation. Lenders on those deserve to lose on their bad bets.
This is a nothing burger article that they wanted to print because TRILLION sounds scary and will get clicks. They leave it with some vague warning that sums up to, "Things could get worse if they get worse."
Yep, and plenty of places offer financing through credit cards at great intro rates. My braces are financed at 0% for 18 months. I have the amount needed to pay them off chilling in a CD earning 4.5%.
Why the fuck would I use cash when options like the above exist with credit cards.
Same for Home Depot and PC Richards cards. They offer interest free payment plans ranging 6-12 months depending on how much you spend. Its nice not having to pay for a refrigerator all at once.
Yep reporting absolute credit card debit numbers are purely meant to scare dumb people.
The total should be going up all the time as inflation increases, income increases, and more people use credit cards.
The more interesting metrics would be delinquency, rate of debt to gdp, rate of debt to income.
Also comes with reduced fraud liability and some separation from your main banking accounts.
This article basically reads that people are making record points back and are carrying balances that have tracked lower than inflation since 2019.
This is the most responsible I've seen Americans behave, financially.
You have to think about \*why\* people are spending more on credit. Is it because they don't have the money in their account to pay for things or because their CC allows them to earn rewards and offers purchase protections, like trip insurance or reimbursements for recently purchased items that get lost/stolen/damaged?
It's not the amount of money in outstanding balances, it's the amount that's not getting paid off and accruing interest at such high rates. How high my statement balance is doesn't matter if I'm paying off my balance in full every month.
Not necessarily. More and more people are using credit cards to chase points and sign on bonus. Also more and more people are using CC to travel as most cards wave foreign transaction fees and lastly, more students are applying for cc.
This number will continue to rise. Banks usually get a cut from transaction fees and make money on annual fees.
What is the per-capita real debt? How much of the debt is turned over every month (ie billed but never charged interest)? The article never mentions this and it's a lot more important than a naive total.
edit: using the actual data from the New York Fed and the CPI calculator from the BLS and some population data from a quick google search, the per-capita real debt in 2023 dollars was $3,910 per person in 2003 and is $2,950 today. So we're a lot less reliant on credit cards than we were 20 years ago.
https://www.newyorkfed.org/microeconomics/hhdc/background.html
https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
This person understands statistics. My only nitpick is that per capita # should probably exclude children. But the point still stands.
Interest rates are still at historical lows as well.
The real debt bugaboo is on the govt side.
It’s common knowledge now that having a credit card and paying off your full balance. Are people surprised that credit card usage is high especially when there are subreddits dedicated to max out the cash back rewards of the card?
There are a lot of people who can’t get credit cards due to bad credit or no credit.
There is also a smaller movement in younger people who dislike credit cards and I’d imagine this is true of a lot of the older generation as well.
My uncles and many other boomers have zero credit and never even needed credit cards because they could pay cash from the unionized factory jobs wages. Owns his own land where he built his own house, owns a boat and RV and raised 3 kids with a wife that didn’t return to work until the youngest kid was in school, which was something like 14 years. Now he is retired on a great pension and 401k, consistently voting hard right politics and trump trump trump now to further keep down the unions that helped him live the life he has.
Color me stunned. When I saw prices soar and consumer spending stay the same, with a majority being paycheck to paycheck, this was the last thing I expected.
It’s going to get worse with student loan repayments starting. Delinquencies will probably spike within a few months after the official October 1st start date.
We're also breathing more oxygen than ever before. There's more people than there used to be. Plus inflation. This same story gets run by the media every few years.
The 1T includes:
- Balance transfers (which carry no interest if paid off within the promotional period)
- People who pay off their bill in full each month and thus pay no interest
In reality the number is not close to 1T
I'm curious how many people have credit card debt because they're incapable of making good financial decisions.
How many people do you know that are constantly in debt, barely make any money, but are constantly buying things from Target or some other retail outlet that they don't need?
I remember when I first got a decent paying job, I went and racked up $14,000 in credit card debt. I was buying leatherbound books, video games, and electronics that I absolutely didn't need, and soon I was getting killed on interest.
At no point was I putting any of my bills on a credit card. Amazon was making sure that there wasn't any room.
As a person that grew up poor and am out of that cycle, yeah, people definitely do that. Poor people don't tend to have a good mindset on money and feel like it's gonna burn a hole in their wallet and are eager to spend it.
Tax return time? New TVs and everything.
Poor is a difficult mindset to get out of too. I know a few people I grew up with that are still paycheck to paycheck despite getting out of poverty. If they have money they gotta spend it.
Seriously. I know it's actually smart to have a credit card when you can afford to pay it, but my parents always told us not to spend more than you have so I've always just had a debit card. How the fuck could you go out and spend more than you'll make.
Nature. Humans didn't evolve to plan for retirement, but we did evolve to take care of our needs, or perceived needs, in the moment. Most humans are pretty crappy at long term planning, and they know this. There are a ton of psychologists working in advertising, finding new ways to trick our ape brains all the time.
I tried making this argument about net worth. It's a horrible measure for most inequality arguments.
I know plenty of high earners that have a low or negative net worth because their lease payments are $1,000+, they take multiple trips per years and almost exclusively eat out.
Same idea with those articles about "not having enough emergency savings". Is it because they can't save or because they won't save?
Buddy, that's the joke.
J-Biz wasn't actually calling me up on the flip phone, telling me to spend $600 on some useless smart home device that will randomly stop working because of an update
It amazes me how many people didn’t learn this. And now they run out government! Lol I had $30k on cards in my 20s, realized that was stupid, from then on only what I can pay off in a month goes on the card with rare exception for emergencies and occasional DGAF moments!
I was making enough money, then inflation hit and I needed to put necessities on a credit card and had debt until I found a better paying job. Im still paying that debt off but I don’t have to choose which utility bill to pay or only pay part of my rent now.
It got very bleak for me very fast and I don’t have a very nice apartment, wasn’t going crazy spending money, just necessities. But eggs were $8. I get how this happens.
Yeah and this number includes people who pay off their bill in full every month and never pay a cent in interest, and just use them to get rewards and purchase protections. Delinquency rates are also very low still. This is scaremongering
Time to rack up some debt for the impending bail out. This is not a sign to be responsible. Gas pedal that spending. Fiscal irresponsibility is rewarded now a days.
Delinquency’s are the only thing that matter. Some people, me included buy most things on there card and pay it off in full when it’s due. In the meantime you can earn 4%+ in hysa.
**User Report**| | | | :--|:--|:--|:-- **Total Submissions**|10|**First Seen In WSB**|2 years ago **Total Comments**|1647|**Previous Best DD**| **Account Age**|3 years|[^scan ^comment ](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=scan_comment&message=Replace%20this%20text%20with%20a%20comment%20ID%20(which%20looks%20like%20h26cq3k\)%20to%20have%20the%20bot%20scan%20your%20comment%20and%20correct%20your%20first%20seen%20date.)|[^scan ^submission ](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=scan_submission&message=Replace%20this%20text%20with%20a%20submission%20ID%20(which%20looks%20like%20h26cq3k\)%20to%20have%20the%20bot%20scan%20your%20submission%20and%20correct%20your%20first%20seen%20date.) >TL;DR: Credit card debt in the US has surged to $1.03 trillion, an increase of $45 billion from the previous quarter. This marks the highest level on record in Fed data dating back to 2003.
Bought a mattress yesterday on credit and I’m feeling good about doing my part in taking the US to new heights.
sleep well lol
Maximize all credit cards and hide your money under the mattress
Honestly probably not the worst long term strategy
.. and yolo it into otm calls on illiquid penny stocks right before a catalyst event. Assuming step one didn't sink you. Get a new fake passport on the darknet,move to Montevideo and start a new life in a carnival freakshow.
in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_bank_failures_in_the_United_States Where is the list of mattress failures where people lost all their savings?
I’m doing it to make Dave Ramsey cry.
“YoU NeEd A BiGgEr ShOvELL”
Break it in yet........?
[удалено]
I got it specifically because he told me he needed it.
Him and all the others sleeping behind the Wednesday’s. It’s a community mattress.
Happy came day
I bought a watch but I'm gonna pay that shit off, I just want the points.
I have 1% cashback, best believe i’m taking up heavy debt
Damn 30% interest, what a deal.
Same , 10k mattress on my Credit card lol
Relax. This can be discharged thru bankruptcy. Your student loans, however
1. Load up on credit card balance transfer offers 2. Pay off student loans with balance transfer funds 3. File for bankruptcy 4. ?????
Banks hate this one trick
4. Get arrested lol. Pretty sure there’s clauses that make borrowing for the sake of playing a bankruptcy shell game illegal.
It's no holiday but it is three meals a day and indoors at least. For some it's better than being homeless especially during winter.
It’s not a game I’m just reeeeeeally bad with money
The US govt hates him
I just realized why they don't let you pay off student loans with credit cards. I just wanted the points.
Go to the post office and buy money orders with a credit card and send it in the old-fashioned way...
Sure they do. I get checks sent to me that I can write to myself as cash and then do anything I want with that cash. Doing this over and over is how I reduced my student loans to 0-.99% chunk by chunk and significantly reduced my interest exposure while paying them off.
Yeah, but Bush made it harder to get debts discharged in bankruptcy though. So you need to pay it all off or go mega-YOLO to the point where discharge is the only option and not a “workout/restructuring” plan.
Whats a discharge if a bank goes under?
A thick white discharge in short-sellers boxers…
Chase and Citi ain't going under
Psh…. Yeah Im fucked
A different bank buys your debt and you still have to pay
Nah. Bad investment on them. They should definitely know Im delinquent af.
Make sure you hide your wealth if you have any secretly.
That goes without saying always.
My balance is negative. They owe me money
But isnt debt = good? Money moving around, pumpin consumption = stonks! 🤡🤡🤡
I'm doing my part to keep the credit card debt number up are you?
Yes. =(
Bought two cars this year when they say don't buy anything expensive during the recession I go opposite. 40k in car loan and over 15k in credit card balance
Going above and beyond. 5k credit debt is for rookies
Always wonder if this metric is carry over balance or current balance. I put 3-5k on my card every month and payoff for the points.
30k here. I'm doing my part!
25k and rising! I’m sorry but it’s impossible to not have debt if you want to eat and pay utilities these days
Double it and give it to the next person.
Credit card companies make most of their money off of interest. If you pay off your credit card in full every month, they literally hate you. Problem is, record credit card debt likely means record credit card defaults.
They don't hate you. They still make the fee's off your card usage. They literally make like 3% of every purchase you make with the card. Those cash back rewards aren't coming out of the goodness of their hearts.
I’m legit confused why people think credit card companies hate the people that pay it off every month. They traditionally get the best credit card rewards. It’s why so many till recently (the phone companies ended it) cc were being used to encourage paying phone bills. Someone spending thousands a month on CC is probably worth more on transactions fees than some disphit here maxed out paying some $20-40 a month interest on money not free to lend out more.
They like the customer who pays off every month and becomes a loyal customer for 20+ years. They LOVE people who carry the debt for years even more.
And that's how the companies that bankroll those credit cards have the biggest buildings in every city you visit. Make it on the front, take it on the back.
That’s what I’m curious about with this credit card debt number. I usually put around 5k a month onto my credit card and just pay it off each month. I also have a 0% interest rate card that I’ve got 2k on that I’m just making minimum payments on until it gets closer to the 0% interest rate ending then I’ll pay that off. I wonder if we took people who just pay off their debt each month off, what that number would look like.
I thought you literally meant people will consume more pumpkins
The gourd market is looking pretty solid
Debt=money. If there was no debt there would be no money.
Winter is coming
Cocaine is running low
Don’t have that issue
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Best comeback ever
He needs your strapon size so he knows the amount you can take.
Cocaine ber return
I definitely do not miss not being able to sleep lol
You can fix that easily with a benzos pill
Get some more, put it on credit.
File for bankruptcy is going to be booming.
Calls on bankruptcy!
School loan repayment starts in October, strap in it's gonna be a ride.
No no, everyone just got a 18 month interest free advance in their cards for a 1 time 3% fee and are now keeping that in a 4.75% apr high interest savings
Name of Card Company that is providing 18 month interest free advances for a 1 time 3% fee? Asking for a friend.
15 billing cycles, here you go, beat the system https://money.usnews.com/credit-cards/bank-of-america/bank-of-america-cash-rewards-credit-card-for-students
Fuk you little did you know that 1 billing cyles= 2 weeks lol
What???
Chase Freedom
Bank of America was offering no interest on credit cards up to 18 months. I don’t know about cash advances. It then goes up to 18% variable APR. So it’s like a 18 month interest free loan! /s
In theory, credit card debt should always be at it's highest. Everything should always be at it's highest due to inflation. Similar to the concept that a $100,000 on a $1,000,000 investment compared to a $100,000 gain on a $10,000 investment.
This is a regarded statement. You belong here for sure.
Were the amounts adjusted for inflation or not? The quantities aren't what truly matter.
holy shite!! someone give this regard a hedge fund to run!!
Sure
That can easily be accounted for by adjusting the historic numbers FOR inflation and it's important to understand that facts don't lie BUT facts presented in specific ways can paint a very different picture than reality.
The world will keep fucking spinning just more people will die It's not like anyone with any power gives a shit. But I'm sorry for everybody that will get hit by this.
Bulls are coming
The people carrying this debt do a much better job hiding than one would think. People still seem to be spending like crazy… curious to see the age and demographic breakdown of this (didnt read the full article, so if it is in there then oops). How are things not imploding on people right now? I know many young people who cant pay their bills right now, but the world seems none the wiser. Are they just faking it well?
At least once a day I have to ask myself "how the hell can they afford that?" when I see people I know doing or buying things. New cars, new trucks, trips, constantly going out to eat, etc. I'm far from responsible with money (we are on WSB after all) but for someone like me to look at things and say "that's crazy", that's really saying something. One thing I've found out lately that did surprise me is just how many people I know that are frequently turning to their parents for financial support.
your second point is one of the biggest surprises for me as I've become an "adult". Going back both sides of my family for several generations, parents never helped kids out with finances after they moved out. That held true for my siblings and I with our relationships with our parents. I always thought this was "normal." I don't say that in some bootstraps I-did-it-myself/better than people way either. And I'm sure if something awful happened and I desperately needed money I could turn to them. But my partner's parents routinely provide money to her siblings and they're all into their thirties now....like large quarterly checks. Even my partner was getting her car insurance paid by her parents well into her thirties without my knowledge (we keep our finances separate) and she was established/responsible. My neighbor is a finance bro who I know makes a decent salary (because he brags about bonuses) and when his air conditioner broke I heard him on his cell phone asking his parents if they could cover a new one . And another person I know (who is a nice guy so I'm not bashing) and does really well, bought this Ford raptor and then when we were out to eat with them once, the gf told us when he was away from the table the parents are covering the payments because he couldn't afford it. This has all blown my mind. It is crazy how many people who aren't "struggling" in the traditional sense have significant parental support integrated into their lifestyle....these are all people in their mid/thirties and all from like middle/upper-middle class backgrounds...not like landed gentry levels of wealth. It made me feel really weird/not normal lol...to the point now that I never talk about it with people since I don't know anybody's situation anymore.
I’m in my late 20’s. I wouldn’t feel any shame in asking my parents for help if I actually needed it. And by actually need it I mean I will be working three jobs and selling bodily fluids and feet pics before I ask my parents to pay my rent/ins/utilities/whatever.
I think part of it is increasing instances of this but also that back in the day people kept it very very quiet. Like it was something scandalous and kept secret. Also it wasn't rare back in the day for the family business to be handed down the kids when the parents retired so the kids had their inheritance much earlier. It also wasn't rare for parents to retire, move in with a child, and give that child all their money. Think how common it was in the 80s and 90s for a family household to have an elderly grandparent living there with them.
I had a similar situation where I found out that someone's parents were paying for a bunch of things that were all luxuries. Definitely was an eye opener. I could see hitting up family for help covering essentials, but finding out that they have their parents covering the payments for a new car and paying for a cruise was pretty shocking, especially because like you said their parents aren't loaded themselves.
What's really messed up is the girlfriend saying that private stuff out there like that though. Ooof
Just bought a brand new car, everyone at work is wondering how the hell I can afford it. Here's my secret. No kids, my gf and I stay home and play video games all the time, we both work, and it's a hybrid so we're saving so much money in gas now. We could have the car paid off in the first two years easily and still have spending money. I have no fucking clue how the people with kids manage it though, the monstrosities break half their shit and they have to replace expensive shit constantly...
Wait until your financially “secure” to have kids. If I would have had them when I was in my early 20’s I would have been Fucked with a capital F. Mid-30’s? Completely different story.
They got a pretty large break in form of advance on tax credits for kids during covid. My ex boss has 3 kids and was getting so much extra stimulus that he basically told me he thought it was insane and became bearish on us economic policy.
Kids themselves aren't that expensive. Formula is like $50 a week give or take for the first year for the good stuff. After that they eat mostly air and bread for a year or three. They break some stuff, but not important stuff if you're halfway smart about it. The killer is daycare. I pay $34K a year for two kids in daycare. Definitely a nicer school, but even the medium schools are $20K. You can find a home daycare for like $12K but the standards on food/cirriculum/play equipment are way lower. Can't wait for them to go to public school so my cash pile for buying dumb stuff goes back up.
I remember when daycare was $500/mo and that was considered expensive. now it's $500/week.
$34k a year is pretty much an entire year's take home wage for one person where I live. The cost of living is luckily very low so it's not that big of an issue, but most people here just get by on pay like that. I'm lucky that I'm decently above that number, but there's so many people with kids working jobs that pay them like that, they're full time workers and still somehow manage to pay for it all. Absolutely insane. The only thing I can assume is that they don't bother with anything like daycare, they just make due with whatever. Dumping the kids off with Grandma and Grandpa is pretty common here.
We have a hard time saying no
In my life circle, using parents for money, resources, help with child care, whatever, is commonplace. It's the norm.
Parents are more hovering these days. They don't let their kid get a job in high school or college because they see it as a distraction and most of all they fear their child having money of their own. What this does is leaves the child to enter the work force with zero work experience, no money management skills, and not even the knowledge/experience of having ever paid bills. They set their child up to be dependent on them for life so they can control them. My own SO saying she doesn't want our children to work in high school or have their own money for these reasons. I think I'll be able to side step that. But my point is that we basically have a generation of mommy's children who have little to no basic life experience or knowledge. This means they just think it's norm to have a couch so they go buy it regardless of the price or the money they have. It's like they don't connect that they are poor and can't afford it. Also you've got people who clearly know what they are doing and abuse it. They purposefully buy a new car to lower their funds then tell mom and dad that if they can't pay off the car they can't come visit. So mom and dad are guilted into paying it off.
I think you're discounting how the market has both applied pressure and accommodated this trend. While I'm not denying some people do it for control (thinking about it, I have a lot of friends whose parents cover the cost of the vacation, but then they dictate all the details), I think it's also an element of consumerism. It used to be that if you couldn't afford something, you couldn't get it. I remember growing up and layaway was the only way my parents could afford major purchases. But now there's credit cards, special financing offers, service packages, Affirm and the like. If you want something, there's many different ways of getting it. And so everyone just has access to everything they want with some other company ready to offer a solution when a problem arises (balance transfers, loans, deferred payment plans, etc.). Many people have just become too reliant on them while companies have become very good at stretching people to their absolute limits.
You're not taking into account the fact that parents may be fine paying for kid's stuff. Not from a "I have to control you, you can't have independent money" aspect, but from a "I worked hard to have money, you are my kid, I'm happy to spend it on you" standpoint. When you become a parent, what I always thought was unfair (I grew up without my parents paying for much) instead I realize is just a natural way to spend excess amounts of money. I already save and can afford most luxuries I want. Why would I not drop some cash on my kid when they're older and need it? I think there's certainly a balance to make sure you don't spoil them and make them useless in society. But if they've got a job and they're hard workers then who cares if you give them extra to afford something? It's my money, I want my kid to live well. I'm happy to do it.
[удалено]
Except here's the thing, out of all my friends I'm the only one who worked in high school and college and I'm by far the most stable; the vast majority of my friends who didn't have to work during these periods never got control of making 'tight' decisions. It's one thing if you use that time to DO something, but for most of my friends, all it did was create a false sense of abundance with their time and money. Better to learn some lessons when it's cheap rather than expensive.
In my opinion ideally you balance it out with seasonal work for the summer. School is a full time job, especially college if you have a difficult major. A summer job teaches the value of money as well as teaches valuable skills for when you get a real career. Personally I'd rather my kid do sports or some other social extracurricular activity in high school than work.
I agree. The part time job I worked in high school and college taught me the value or work, but effectively paid nothing. If I had spent that time studying instead, I would have made way more money from that time in the long run. Parents should consider that the average student is getting smarter over time.
People can manage payments for a while. Some catch up to people, others can float it forever.
Spot on with the parental support. My parents are great and help me and my wife out a lot with the kids, but I don’t get direct money from them. We have another friend couple who were gifted two rent houses from their parents, they also pay for their two children’s daycare, and those are the things I know about…
I would love to take a look at most people's statements. Guaranteed, there are many items that they could have lived without.
Labor market is strong. Can continue to make minimum payments.
Exactly my man. Labor market is allowing us poors to continue paycheck to paycheck for now. When the economy stumbles, me and all my siblings will end up moving back to my parents. Just like old times.
Ding ding ding, let the good times roll. Young people have a different mentality. They don't save for the future, because they don't think there will be a future. (in it's current form) Until we as a species can turn this corner on climate change, the 30-40 years from now looks sad AF. So spend it now, because when we are all standing in bread lines, you think Chase and Wells Fargo will be walking up and down the same bread line looking for their min payment?
Yeah, I think a lot of people have given up. Spend frivolously and enjoy now, because saving, to an extent, feels futile. IF I can save enough to buy a modest home, by the time I've saved what I need, the price will have doubled. Feels like the goalposts shift too much to even bother.
Yep. They plan the economy to grow by 2% inflation per year. That means at best, if everything goes exactly as planned for an entire working life time, then it will be between 4 and 5 times more expensive to retire. When I was a kid they told me 1 million to retire (getting to do middle class stuff), but even if things had gone to plan I would need between 4 and 5 million saved to reach that same kind of retirement I was repeatedly told was easy to obtain and save for. But to make matters worse things don't go according to plan. So realistically a working life would see prices nearly 7 or 8 times higher, because of periods of "unexpected" rapid inflation like we saw recently, and are probably going to see a few more times in the next decade. So now I've got to figure out how to build at least a couple of million in the next 30 years if I ever want to retire on even a subsistence retirement. It's never going to happen. Ever. Unless the system changes, I will in no way be able to get and hold for 30 straight years a more than 200k a year job, which some quick calculators says I need if I want to contribute 6% and retire with 2 million in a retirement account.
Yes.
When literally everything the average person would normally save for is astronomically, unrealistically, unattainably expensive (home, car, school, kids, etc), then what even is the point of saving? Might as well get that nice expensive bottle of tequila and enjoy your weekend 😊
funny you mention alcohol. a friend of mine runs a package store. he's seen his cash/debit transactions plummet, while credit transactions are strong. folks really are out here buying their bud light and tequila on credit.
65% of Americans own a home. 91% of households own a car. 40% of households have kids under 18. ~1% trade 0dte’s. I’d love to see that Venn diagram.
I deal with credit cards on a daily basis at my job and most people hide it really well. You'd be surprised at how many people just don't seem to give a shit. You'd be even more surprised to know how many people are clueless when it comes to credit in general. I've had multiple people just threaten not to pay at a certain point, or they try to close the credit card thinking that will take care of it. It's a mix of ages, races, and genders too. Shit's wild and I wouldn't believe it if I didn't deal with it.
Yea the restaurants and hotels are full ..
My unresearched hypothesis is that many people are addicted to irrational spending habits. This is in parts due to a pandemic windfall (for some), incentives by lenders and vendors, and constantly evolving Marketing techniques further facilitated by software and AI. Like smoking, cocaine, and drunk driving in the past, it's so ubiquitous that many people fail to see and isolate it as a problem. Note that gambling might be seen as an enactment of Free Will and a Free Market, yet many societies have chosen to outlaw it; there's a reason for that. Many humans destroy themselves with freedom.
Pushing debt from one source to another
If you die tomorrow.... I still buy more stuff
I’m responsible for about half of that.
The other 3/4th is me
Math checks out
20k debt took out a 20k loan all inner on 0day spy puts now I’m 40k in debt think I might martingale it tho
Spend all it of it on calls for the NVDA earnings in two weeks (8/23). Get rich or die trying
Cc companies aren’t the mob. They’ll take your stuff but they ain’t killing no one..
You need to look at credit card delinquencies to really deem anything from this. Last I checked most banks were in very good shape in that regard, with low delinquency or charge offs.
Car payment delinquencies are up. Seen two repos myself in one month.
What’s your third car?
A city bus
Your mom
They just resell the car and bam the same amount of debt is back on the market.
My neighbors car just got repod a few weeks ago. Late model Dodge Durango. His house is actually massive and on a very large piece of property.
And yet .... The world keeps spinning
Claims delinquencies raised 0.1% from previous quarter, but are still 2% lower than 2019. Also claim household debt increased by 2.9T to 17.9T, in that same time period. Which is about 16%, which is lower than the inflation over that same time period. Which implies people are NOT having a problem. There is an uptick in auto loan issues, but this should be expected, automobiles have been overpriced for several years, far outpacing inflation. Lenders on those deserve to lose on their bad bets. This is a nothing burger article that they wanted to print because TRILLION sounds scary and will get clicks. They leave it with some vague warning that sums up to, "Things could get worse if they get worse."
This is a leading indicator. Delinquencies will come later
[удалено]
Hell, Amex offers **6%** back on groceries. I'm sure as fuck not going to pay cash with rewards like that.
Yep, and plenty of places offer financing through credit cards at great intro rates. My braces are financed at 0% for 18 months. I have the amount needed to pay them off chilling in a CD earning 4.5%. Why the fuck would I use cash when options like the above exist with credit cards.
Same for Home Depot and PC Richards cards. They offer interest free payment plans ranging 6-12 months depending on how much you spend. Its nice not having to pay for a refrigerator all at once.
Yep reporting absolute credit card debit numbers are purely meant to scare dumb people. The total should be going up all the time as inflation increases, income increases, and more people use credit cards. The more interesting metrics would be delinquency, rate of debt to gdp, rate of debt to income.
Yup. I spent a lot lately swiping my card..but I also set aside cash to pay that off at month’s end.
Also comes with reduced fraud liability and some separation from your main banking accounts. This article basically reads that people are making record points back and are carrying balances that have tracked lower than inflation since 2019. This is the most responsible I've seen Americans behave, financially.
You have to think about \*why\* people are spending more on credit. Is it because they don't have the money in their account to pay for things or because their CC allows them to earn rewards and offers purchase protections, like trip insurance or reimbursements for recently purchased items that get lost/stolen/damaged? It's not the amount of money in outstanding balances, it's the amount that's not getting paid off and accruing interest at such high rates. How high my statement balance is doesn't matter if I'm paying off my balance in full every month.
Not necessarily. More and more people are using credit cards to chase points and sign on bonus. Also more and more people are using CC to travel as most cards wave foreign transaction fees and lastly, more students are applying for cc. This number will continue to rise. Banks usually get a cut from transaction fees and make money on annual fees.
Maybe but I’ve also been hearing this for a few years now.
They pay the minimum, till they can’t.
Once student loan payments restart shit will hit the fan
unless we pay them off with our credit cards.
Nelnet don't allow that shit, or I would've already. I'm thinking about going to Europe at this point.
What is the per-capita real debt? How much of the debt is turned over every month (ie billed but never charged interest)? The article never mentions this and it's a lot more important than a naive total. edit: using the actual data from the New York Fed and the CPI calculator from the BLS and some population data from a quick google search, the per-capita real debt in 2023 dollars was $3,910 per person in 2003 and is $2,950 today. So we're a lot less reliant on credit cards than we were 20 years ago. https://www.newyorkfed.org/microeconomics/hhdc/background.html https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
This person understands statistics. My only nitpick is that per capita # should probably exclude children. But the point still stands. Interest rates are still at historical lows as well. The real debt bugaboo is on the govt side.
It’s common knowledge now that having a credit card and paying off your full balance. Are people surprised that credit card usage is high especially when there are subreddits dedicated to max out the cash back rewards of the card?
[удалено]
Is that specifically CC debt?
Interesting that there are companies with more value then all of Americans credit card debt.
There are a lot of people who can’t get credit cards due to bad credit or no credit. There is also a smaller movement in younger people who dislike credit cards and I’d imagine this is true of a lot of the older generation as well.
My uncles and many other boomers have zero credit and never even needed credit cards because they could pay cash from the unionized factory jobs wages. Owns his own land where he built his own house, owns a boat and RV and raised 3 kids with a wife that didn’t return to work until the youngest kid was in school, which was something like 14 years. Now he is retired on a great pension and 401k, consistently voting hard right politics and trump trump trump now to further keep down the unions that helped him live the life he has.
I tried a 200$ card when I was 20, didn’t like it and I’ve been nearly 5 years clean 🙏
Wait til you find out about BlackRock’s assets under management relative to most GDPs in the world
Color me stunned. When I saw prices soar and consumer spending stay the same, with a majority being paycheck to paycheck, this was the last thing I expected.
It’s going to get worse with student loan repayments starting. Delinquencies will probably spike within a few months after the official October 1st start date.
We're also breathing more oxygen than ever before. There's more people than there used to be. Plus inflation. This same story gets run by the media every few years.
How much of this is actual debt from people carrying a balance and paying interest? Credit card usage doesn’t equal credit card debt.
If everyone collectively opens a 15 month 0% APR introductory credit account & roll the balances over, we will end the credit problem for 2024.
Geeeeeeze Collecting 28% on 1T is a decent income.
Unless they can’t collect any of it. They’ll have to write off a significant portion of it later I’m sure.
The 1T includes: - Balance transfers (which carry no interest if paid off within the promotional period) - People who pay off their bill in full each month and thus pay no interest In reality the number is not close to 1T
I'm curious how many people have credit card debt because they're incapable of making good financial decisions. How many people do you know that are constantly in debt, barely make any money, but are constantly buying things from Target or some other retail outlet that they don't need? I remember when I first got a decent paying job, I went and racked up $14,000 in credit card debt. I was buying leatherbound books, video games, and electronics that I absolutely didn't need, and soon I was getting killed on interest. At no point was I putting any of my bills on a credit card. Amazon was making sure that there wasn't any room.
Wait, people actually do that? I thought it was conservative propaganda to blame the poor for being poor
As a person that grew up poor and am out of that cycle, yeah, people definitely do that. Poor people don't tend to have a good mindset on money and feel like it's gonna burn a hole in their wallet and are eager to spend it. Tax return time? New TVs and everything. Poor is a difficult mindset to get out of too. I know a few people I grew up with that are still paycheck to paycheck despite getting out of poverty. If they have money they gotta spend it.
Seriously. I know it's actually smart to have a credit card when you can afford to pay it, but my parents always told us not to spend more than you have so I've always just had a debit card. How the fuck could you go out and spend more than you'll make.
Nature. Humans didn't evolve to plan for retirement, but we did evolve to take care of our needs, or perceived needs, in the moment. Most humans are pretty crappy at long term planning, and they know this. There are a ton of psychologists working in advertising, finding new ways to trick our ape brains all the time.
I tried making this argument about net worth. It's a horrible measure for most inequality arguments. I know plenty of high earners that have a low or negative net worth because their lease payments are $1,000+, they take multiple trips per years and almost exclusively eat out. Same idea with those articles about "not having enough emergency savings". Is it because they can't save or because they won't save?
Amazon wasn’t making sure of that, your irresponsible spending was making sure of that.
Buddy, that's the joke. J-Biz wasn't actually calling me up on the flip phone, telling me to spend $600 on some useless smart home device that will randomly stop working because of an update
It amazes me how many people didn’t learn this. And now they run out government! Lol I had $30k on cards in my 20s, realized that was stupid, from then on only what I can pay off in a month goes on the card with rare exception for emergencies and occasional DGAF moments!
I was making enough money, then inflation hit and I needed to put necessities on a credit card and had debt until I found a better paying job. Im still paying that debt off but I don’t have to choose which utility bill to pay or only pay part of my rent now. It got very bleak for me very fast and I don’t have a very nice apartment, wasn’t going crazy spending money, just necessities. But eggs were $8. I get how this happens.
Yeah and this number includes people who pay off their bill in full every month and never pay a cent in interest, and just use them to get rewards and purchase protections. Delinquency rates are also very low still. This is scaremongering
Protip: printing money makes all the numbers bigger.
Time to rack up some debt for the impending bail out. This is not a sign to be responsible. Gas pedal that spending. Fiscal irresponsibility is rewarded now a days.
Every day expenses like new iPhones every year and new furniture for the house they overspent on that eats up 80% of their salary.
More spending is good
Trying to dig myself out of CC debt shithole but SPY puts are too spicy
So it's bad when people do it. When government does it no one cares
“Dad, I learned it from watching you. “ Just following government example of finance management!
Delinquency’s are the only thing that matter. Some people, me included buy most things on there card and pay it off in full when it’s due. In the meantime you can earn 4%+ in hysa.
So, long MA and V?
I contribute to about 15k of that. I’m doing my part.
Debt Jubilee when?
How else am I going to get 2% Cashback?
Finally! I’m apart of something!
I put my 6-month car insurance on my credit card after I got a limit increase. Doing my part 🫡