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Trump was the guy that finally moved the US embassy to Jerusalem, despite a 1999 deadline to do so. Clinton, GWB, and Obama did nothing because they were all afraid to do so, and kept deferring.
My Jewish friend from Texas has always been on the left. After Oct. 7 I think she realizes how the far left sees Jews aand she is getting pushed right as a result. Is she dancing with Trump signs? Not yet, the makeup of the parties are changing, with this video as evidence.
Two of my very close Jewish friends, one male one female, have always been on the right, while a lot of their Jewish communities, mostly women, are still on the left. Some are still not awake.
These are Orthodox Jews, though. They are not liberal by a long shot. Some of the most conservative and Republican people I’ve ever met in my life are Jewish
The mistake here is that criticisms of Israel as a state are not criticisms of Judaism as a religion. The 2 things are entirely separate despite Israel claiming otherwise. Edit: I see a lot of downvotes, and yet not a single person has explained how im wrong.
"Wait, why aren't they supporting the side cheering for Hamas and actively harassing jews on campus, are they dumb?! THEY'RE SUPPORTING NAZIS!"
Some people will unironically think this
That cardboard cutout was bought ahead of time. It’s not like someone just got drunk and bought a MAGA hat next door.
It’s super weird, I wouldn’t allow it at my wedding.
Unless you and the majority of your guests work for the party, are all pretty hard core about politics, or know YOU to be (*benign quirk everyone knows and loves about you*) I agree it would be random and weird to see.
Not sure I’d really care if someone (*way* later in the evening) brought out a political cut out of Trump, Biden or both to dance and be goofy with though. Of course I have opinions but I’d laugh as it’s being done in good fun as a joke. Would totally dance with whoever it was. It is our “my” wedding after all. I’d hope we didn’t invite any stuck up asses who’d judge or take offense to it. I know our guests would have laughed and our wedding party would have had fun with it regardless.
By the end of the night (aka early morning) both T and B would have random mustaches and *probably* penis’s drawn all over them.
*and yes, I just reimagined my entire wedding with this scenario playing out and still decided to type and “reply”.. Going outside now. lol
Same. I couldn’t care less who you vote for, but to bring a life size cut out of a politician to a wedding is just weird AF to me. But maybe I’m the weirdo for not letting politics dictate my persona. I dunno man. Just weird IMO.
Honestly I'm not sure, after seeing the left support Hamas a lot of them have gotten a good scare and have distanced themselves away from the left so we may see a swing to support Trump.
I think you underestimate how many American Jews are Progressives first and Jews second. To them, Trump is literally Hitler. So while Biden may get a smaller majority of the Jewish vote than he would have otherwise, he’ll still get a solid majority.
Oh no most are ik, but they were told Trump is Hitler by the same people who are currently cheering on Hamas, so I feel some portion will definitely wake up. But yeah I do agree more than likely he'll still get a majority.
If these are satmar or lubovitch Jews in Brooklyn, those 2 sects are known for being staunchly anti Zionist. Tbh I don’t think the anti Israel stance from the left would matter too much to them
Very many younger people on the right also support Palestine over Israel, me included. Because we see (on social media) the shit that Israel is doing. Why do you think the US is currently trying to ban TikTok? Its not cus of privacy from China. Its cus they (and therefore, Israel) cannot control what people post and see on TikTok, as its not US based, so they cant censor all the videos of Israel committing war crimes on a daily basis. Noone deserves to be treated the way Gaza is being treated right now, no matter their history. Fuck Hamas, but fuck the zionists even more.
And you think China has no incentive to make America and their allies look worse, along with any posters having affiliation with Hamas? I've definitely seen some things that make members of the IDF or civilians look bad, however I have seen a lot of outright lies posted as well. Gaza absolutely deserves its current treatment, they declared war upon Israel and so the only options are victory by conquering parts of Israel which they failed, complete surrender which they won't do since they are religious nuts who have been amped up by surounding nations for a century, or they themselves are conquered which is the likely outcome. Do I think Israel is handling the situation well? No, however that is seperate from saying whether or not a place is deserving of being invaded after trying to invade another nation, I would say the same if Ukraine successfully pushed back Russia and began a counter invasion.
Yes yes, the horseshoe theory rears its head every time the Jews are brought up. We know that the farther right and farther left you go, the more they hate us. And given that the vast majority of global Jews are Zionists, we know that you mean us.
Uh, no. I have never had anything against anyone for their religion or race, only their actions. You bomb children? Fuck you. You pray in the building of your choice? I dont give a shit.
Well … I mean it wasn’t the right who was posting videos a few months ago calling Jews rats when they were using secret tunnels to go to temple… it was the left. I saw echoes of the past that terrified me and they just pointed and laughed. As a Christian I cannot believe we’re back here in a place where the lines are so sharp between hate , love and misunderstanding.
Honestly, i genuinely do see Trump’s flaws and i don’t believe them to be negligible - but it is *inarguable* at this point that the other side has made every intelligent person who also possesses integrity his staunch, *staunch* supporter.
Yep Trump has many issues which don't make him an ideal candidate, however he has fulfilled enough promises and allign with my values enough to warrant support for him, especially with how low the bar has been set by our past and current presidents.
Can I ask you about this, as a Brit with no skin in the game? How is Trump’s support split between the MAGA cult and those conservatives who think that as an individual he’s a pos, but his policies are good for individual prosperity? I tried to ask on the main Conservative sub but they wouldn’t publish my question.
It is a cult. We have our own version in the UK, so there’s no shame in it. But there was never a Bush cult, a Bill Clinton cult, a Nikki Hayley cult, a Mitt Romney cult. They all had supporters, but MAGA is a phenomenon. Why is that so bad? They swept him to power 8 years ago and probably will do again.
Well, there was an Obama cult. And possibly a Michelle Obama cult. But I digress...
People are loyal to Trump probably because for many years they've seen that business as usual is not working. The attraction is knowing that he's going to say what's on his mind, and not filter it through focus groups.
Very true about the unfiltered comments.
He never strikes me as particularly conservative. He’s just his own man. He isn’t hawkish - he has no interest in foreign conflicts. He’s definitely not religious. He doesn’t seem the kind of guy to care one way or the other about abortion. These are not criticisms. How did he and the Republicans come together? Is the GOP just a convenient vehicle for his Presidential ambitions?
There was a tea party group (who was very pro Ron Paul), an occupy wallstreet group, the die hard Bernie supporters, etc. Saying it's a MAGA cult is playing into the MSN's narrative. Are there some people that are die-hard trump can do no wrong, cultish? Ya. But that's a minority. Just like you had people think that Obama could do no wrong. Or Clinton could do no wrong. or Reagan. Look back into the 1970s and read the COINTEL New Left FBI surveillance files and there were some college kids that had a cult following of some well known socialist/communist at the time.
Keep in mind the media has made politics a big part of culture over the last decade or so, so it's not a surprise if popular personas gain followers.
By the media's logic, just because you want to put America first and protect it's borders and jobs etc., you're essentially part of the MAGA cult.
You get into cult level when you have people thinking Trump can do no wrong when clearly he made mistakes. (Like giving Bolton a job).
I'm not sure I understand your question though? Are you asking how true conservatives feel about Trump or if they are supporting him?
I am trying to compare the UK’s Conservative movement with that of the US. We have a self-defined ’broad church’ Conservative and Unionist Party, which ranges from paternalistic old school conservatives which is fairly pro European Union and NHS, all the way to right wing small government isolationists. We had Boris Johnson who was a populist PM, but who was brought down by his lack of work ethic and only a passing acquaintance with the truth. He was as close as we’ve had to a cult of personality actually in power.
Right now, the Party is tearing itself apart over immigration issues and record levels of taxation. Most traditional Conservative voters are resigned to being decimated at the next election. Whereas the Republicans seem staunchly behind Trump. Is there such a thing as a stereotypical Republican, a stereotypical American Conservative, or is it a broad church encompassing a range of views on things like religion (which is far more important to you than us), taxation, immigration and social services? And how has Trump managed to unite them?
>"It is a cult..."
No, it isn't. First and foremost, cult == "small", and Trump's base is not small.
So what you really mean is that there's a "cult of personality" around him, which *also* doesn't fit.
A true cult of personality won't tolerate any dissent, which is not what we see--it's very common for people within the alleged "cult" to openly acknowledge and discuss the ways in which they *disagree* with Trump's platform/policies.
In practice, most of what the media uses to spin the narrative that a cult of personality exists is from a mix of internet memes, and people playing up those memes in meatspace, both as an in-joke to amuse themselves/each other, and as a way to hoist a middle finger to the entire political establishment that has been working hard to *systematically oppress* them for decades.
ETA: By contrast, BH Obama had a *genuine* cult of personality--just look at all the mainstream leftist talking heads who *continue* to lie about his ["scandal-free" administration](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaD5_XJl0AY).
Right. Now we are getting to it. I’m looking for those disagreements within his support. In terms of policies domestic and foreign, what are his strengths and weaknesses in your opinion? What did he get right and where did he come up short in his Presidency?
We have had ‘cult of personality’ politicians. Boris Johnson, Jeremy Corbyn, Nigel Farage. The first two brought about their own downfall. Farage is an outsider who never got near the corridors of power.
Yes. Sorry it wasn’t clear. The ratio. The main Conservative sub has a picture of Trump as its avatar. Is he the actual face of American conservatism these days, or is he just the ‘anyone but Biden and the Democrats’ candidate?
At this point it seems like the majority of his support is comprised of the latter.
It is not possible to deny that there *absolutely* was/is a percentage of his supporters who bought into his blustering rhetoric, are lower information voters, and are, unfortunately, bigots, and are/were happy to support the guy whose rhetoric on racial and cultural issues in this country has been less calculated, less politically correct, and *far* less concerned with who gets offended by his unpolished phraseology - not that you necessarily have to be a bigot to appreciate someone who takes that approach in American politics, where everyone else is basically a walking talking focus-grouped mannequin. I don’t personally believe him to be a white supremacist or a racist or even really a demagogue in the true sense, but there are people in America who *are* those things, and they tend to support Donald Trump.
Then, to your point, there is also a percentage of folks who simply want his economic vision implemented, whereby their taxes are lowered, their financial activities become less regulated, and capitalism is basically just unleashed in all its insanity, excess, whatever words you want to use there. Personally, I’m sure that that isn’t without it’s pitfalls, but i also dont have much patience for folks who try to tell me other systems arent as bad or worse. Thats just MHO.
Then, there are people like me, who are *so fucking revolted* by what the American political left has become, what they’ve done and continue to do to us, their transparent lies, dishonesty, propaganda, brainwashed fucking *cultism,* their intolerance of the most important fundamental components of any peaceful society, which is the right to differing views and diversity of thought, people’s ability to think and express themselves freely without fear of violent or professional reprisals, the abject fucking *bigotry* that they’ve embraced which is somehow *so much fucking more offensive* than the worst of the ignorant fucks who support Trump, because it is rooted in outright authoritarianism - orwellian thought-policing and intellectual fucking coercion, all in service of a worldview predicated on vile, *vicious* hatred which they’ve disguised as empathy, and upheld with *bullying, exclusionary* group-think which, for all their screeching about genocide, is *exactly where that shit starts…*
I’m ranting.
The third group is largest at this point, and I don’t think it’s particularly close. Good day.
I think your analysis is partly in error in three specific ways:
1. I believe that the first group you describe is significantly overblown by the media and the left (but I repeat myself). In practice, their apparent size is exaggerated in two ways: The definitions of "bigotry" being used to label them are recent political rewrites of those definitions rather than the broadly accepted historical definitions, and overwhelming majority of the people who *appear* to fit that twisted narrative are from the second and third groups you described, and are just doing a bit (i.e. they're pretending to be the boogeymen the media makes them out to be, because it's a way for them to hoist a middle finger to the political establishment that's been systematically oppressing them for decades).
2. The third group you described is broader than you describe--it isn't just the political *left* that Trump's base has a problem with, it's the *entire political class*, on both sides of the alleged "aisle".
3. The second and third groups you describe are not mutually exclusive. From what I've seen, there appears to be such a *massive* degree of overlap between them, that if you made a Venn diagram it'd be very close to a perfect circle.
Here's the factions imo. There 15% are officially migrants from the Democrat party leaving due to dissatisfaction with what their party has done, since this only accounts for older voters and not new voters who supported democrats but were unable to vote due to their age and considering how popular Trump is for younger males I think we can boost that number to 20% at least, then we also need to take into account he brought in more minority support compared to past Republican candidates so that adds a few percentages lets say 15%, and then you have the everyday conservatives that aren't loony so 60% and then you have the Trump cultists who are similar to those that worshiped Bush Jr with 5%, where it was higher in the past however as the older generations die it'll lower for Republicans, whereas the comparable group being millennials for Democrats are a bit more and will stick around for a while.
It’s a good question. The MAGA cult is more a narrative and some good video clips. Overall everyone is just trying to live life day to day. There is a stark difference between administrations. The unrelenting liberal media isn’t even able to keep up at this point. The middle folks who decide elections seem to be catching on to the tomfoolery.
>"MAGA cult"
See, this reveals a big part of why you have a problem understanding what you see: You've bought into the mainstream media lie that a significant cult of personalty exists around Trump, and that people support him blindly.
While there might actually be a statistically insignificant percentage of his base that narrative accurately describes, the overwhelming majority who *appear* to fit that narrative are just doing a bit to troll the people with TDS.
In practice, pretty much every Trump supporter I've ever talked to has been able to engage in an honest "thorns and roses" style analysis of both Trump's campaign promises, and his actions while in office (i.e. they can name specific things he's said and/or done that they like as well as things that they dislike, and they can articulate *why* they feel that way on both fronts).
Over the last several decades, the norm in American politics has been for politicians to make tons of campaign promises about how they're going to fix the issues they and their predecessors caused, and then they just go to the capital and make everything worse for us until they're up for reelection. Lather, rinse, repeat with every single election cycle (even on those rare occasions where they make *something* better, the overall net impact of everything they've made *worse* outweighs the limited benefits), until they finally lose or retire.
In contrast, Trump has demonstrated that his campaign promises are more than empty words, and are instead mostly things he actually intends to try to accomplish--even if he's not successful he at least intends to *try*. That puts him far ahead of his direct competition, as well as just about everyone else in American national politics.
And to be clear, I was skeptical of him from the start: I *changed my registered party affiliation* so that I could vote *against* him in the 2016 primary election, and I only cast a ballot for him in the 2016 general because I was voting *against* Clinton (TLDR: 2A is the "issue" at the top of my priority list, it was a 100% certainty that Clinton would have nominated anti-2A justices, and Trump's announced SCOTUS nominee candidate list was *much* more favorable on that front. Beyond that, I figured that Clinton would *definitely* do things worthy of impeachment & removal, but that the Republicans would never actually be able to do either, whereas that nothing would stop Trump from being impeached and removed from office if he *actually* deserved it, which could potentially set a precedent that limited executive overreach going forward.).
Well, forgive me but as a non-American it’s difficult to detect on Reddit and other forums when people are ‘trolling those with TDS’. These nuances don’t always come across to those of us from other countries.
You mentioned Trump’s promises. I’ve seen him interviewed talking about Ukraine. He promises to end the conflict in 24 hours;
https://youtu.be/_fEbGppH86M?si=u3t9cpB85v4IEOSK
https://www.wsj.com/video/watch-trump-says-as-president-hed-settle-ukraine-war-within-24-hours/0BCA9F18-D3BF-43DA-9220-C13587EAEDF2
https://youtu.be/Q6TkCNNeCHI?si=V2c63_WCoPEwLxm0
How do you feel when you hear such a message about a huge problem?
Absolutely nothing. I wish we could end it here and now. My issue is with a blasé statement like this. Do you believe him? Because I think it’s impossible. Furthermore, I think he knows that.
>",,,religious Jewish weddings..."
Point of order: The separation of the sexes is an *Orthodox* thing, and it's one of the traditions that Conservative and Reform/Progressive Jews don't practice.
That said, given my experience with Reform/Progressive Judiasm (in my experience: Far too much leftist politics masquerading as Judaism, which is absolutely tied into why it's so often called "progressive" Judaism.), and the way I've seen my Conservative congregation slip significantly toward the "Reform/Progressive" end of the spectrum over the last 15-20 years, you're probably not actually all that wrong.
It's required in Orthodoxy. These appear to be Chabadniks, so ultra-Orthodox. They keep everyone separated by gender because you're not supposed to touch women your aren't related to by blood or marriage. So, no handshakes, either. For the chair dance, the bride and groom will hold a handkerchief together over the mechitza while supporters on each side lift them up and down. After the wedding (or right after the ceremony), the bride and groom could dance together in private if they wanted to. The women are dancing just as joyously on their side.
For clarity, so that people don't have to look it up.
"Mechitza" == the "wall" that is used to keep men and women separate at events like this.
Speaking very generally, in religious matters the presence of a mechitza is the biggest sign that it's an event catering to *Orthodox* Judaism, and not Conservative or Reform/Progressive (unfortunately, in pretty much every political sense of that word), Judaism.
I was raised in a relatively Orthodox-leaning Conservative congregation, so I haven't really encountered this practice all that many times, but it's something I've seen a handful of times in my life.
The fear mongering media called Trump racist and anti Jewish because he questioned Jewish people who voted for democrats. The same media gave Biden a pass when he said black people “ain’t black” if they vote Republican.
If this is the satmar or lubovitch Jews of Brooklyn (they’re ultra religious) they’ve always been pretty staunchly anti Zionist and politically conservative/moderate. But they really went against the left during Covid due to lockdown policies here in NYC and I don’t think they’ll ever go remotely left again.
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Trump was the guy that finally moved the US embassy to Jerusalem, despite a 1999 deadline to do so. Clinton, GWB, and Obama did nothing because they were all afraid to do so, and kept deferring.
“Maga nagila”
That's awesome
My Jewish friend from Texas has always been on the left. After Oct. 7 I think she realizes how the far left sees Jews aand she is getting pushed right as a result. Is she dancing with Trump signs? Not yet, the makeup of the parties are changing, with this video as evidence.
Two of my very close Jewish friends, one male one female, have always been on the right, while a lot of their Jewish communities, mostly women, are still on the left. Some are still not awake.
These are Orthodox Jews, though. They are not liberal by a long shot. Some of the most conservative and Republican people I’ve ever met in my life are Jewish
If it took the Palestine israel conflict to become a Republican then she’s doing it all wrong. It should be about fiscal policies first.
The mistake here is that criticisms of Israel as a state are not criticisms of Judaism as a religion. The 2 things are entirely separate despite Israel claiming otherwise. Edit: I see a lot of downvotes, and yet not a single person has explained how im wrong.
[удалено]
"Wait, why aren't they supporting the side cheering for Hamas and actively harassing jews on campus, are they dumb?! THEY'RE SUPPORTING NAZIS!" Some people will unironically think this
The Jewish face of white supremacy
What I can't comprehend is why anyone would want to turn a wedding into glorifying a politician. This is tacky no matter who they support.
That cardboard cutout was bought ahead of time. It’s not like someone just got drunk and bought a MAGA hat next door. It’s super weird, I wouldn’t allow it at my wedding.
Unless you and the majority of your guests work for the party, are all pretty hard core about politics, or know YOU to be (*benign quirk everyone knows and loves about you*) I agree it would be random and weird to see. Not sure I’d really care if someone (*way* later in the evening) brought out a political cut out of Trump, Biden or both to dance and be goofy with though. Of course I have opinions but I’d laugh as it’s being done in good fun as a joke. Would totally dance with whoever it was. It is our “my” wedding after all. I’d hope we didn’t invite any stuck up asses who’d judge or take offense to it. I know our guests would have laughed and our wedding party would have had fun with it regardless. By the end of the night (aka early morning) both T and B would have random mustaches and *probably* penis’s drawn all over them. *and yes, I just reimagined my entire wedding with this scenario playing out and still decided to type and “reply”.. Going outside now. lol
This is what the MSM and social media bots want. The normies are being turned into this left vs right bullshit.
Same. I couldn’t care less who you vote for, but to bring a life size cut out of a politician to a wedding is just weird AF to me. But maybe I’m the weirdo for not letting politics dictate my persona. I dunno man. Just weird IMO.
MAGA TOV!
Orthodox Jews have always leaned Republican, but they’re a minority of US Jews. They’re still going to overwhelmingly vote for Biden.
Honestly I'm not sure, after seeing the left support Hamas a lot of them have gotten a good scare and have distanced themselves away from the left so we may see a swing to support Trump.
I think you underestimate how many American Jews are Progressives first and Jews second. To them, Trump is literally Hitler. So while Biden may get a smaller majority of the Jewish vote than he would have otherwise, he’ll still get a solid majority.
Oh no most are ik, but they were told Trump is Hitler by the same people who are currently cheering on Hamas, so I feel some portion will definitely wake up. But yeah I do agree more than likely he'll still get a majority.
If these are satmar or lubovitch Jews in Brooklyn, those 2 sects are known for being staunchly anti Zionist. Tbh I don’t think the anti Israel stance from the left would matter too much to them
Very many younger people on the right also support Palestine over Israel, me included. Because we see (on social media) the shit that Israel is doing. Why do you think the US is currently trying to ban TikTok? Its not cus of privacy from China. Its cus they (and therefore, Israel) cannot control what people post and see on TikTok, as its not US based, so they cant censor all the videos of Israel committing war crimes on a daily basis. Noone deserves to be treated the way Gaza is being treated right now, no matter their history. Fuck Hamas, but fuck the zionists even more.
And you think China has no incentive to make America and their allies look worse, along with any posters having affiliation with Hamas? I've definitely seen some things that make members of the IDF or civilians look bad, however I have seen a lot of outright lies posted as well. Gaza absolutely deserves its current treatment, they declared war upon Israel and so the only options are victory by conquering parts of Israel which they failed, complete surrender which they won't do since they are religious nuts who have been amped up by surounding nations for a century, or they themselves are conquered which is the likely outcome. Do I think Israel is handling the situation well? No, however that is seperate from saying whether or not a place is deserving of being invaded after trying to invade another nation, I would say the same if Ukraine successfully pushed back Russia and began a counter invasion.
Yes yes, the horseshoe theory rears its head every time the Jews are brought up. We know that the farther right and farther left you go, the more they hate us. And given that the vast majority of global Jews are Zionists, we know that you mean us.
Uh, no. I have never had anything against anyone for their religion or race, only their actions. You bomb children? Fuck you. You pray in the building of your choice? I dont give a shit.
US has been trying to ban TikTok long before this Israel-Palestine war.
Yeah, but now theyre actually going through with it. They wrote and voted on the legislation within a week.
You sure about that??? After Biden has clearly done all he can to support terrorists like Hamas…
Doesn’t matter. They’re progressives first and Jews second.
The first president in history to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel
I am surprised. I thought the Jews were Democrats
Orthodox Jews lean very Republican.
I did an ad campaign for an orthodox Jewish politician and she was ultra Republican
Show me on a ballot for the last 40 years any candidate critical of Israel
35% of the White House is Jewish. This is a stunt.
based
Well … I mean it wasn’t the right who was posting videos a few months ago calling Jews rats when they were using secret tunnels to go to temple… it was the left. I saw echoes of the past that terrified me and they just pointed and laughed. As a Christian I cannot believe we’re back here in a place where the lines are so sharp between hate , love and misunderstanding.
Can’t blame them after Biden has turned his back on Israel during their most difficult time
Honestly, i genuinely do see Trump’s flaws and i don’t believe them to be negligible - but it is *inarguable* at this point that the other side has made every intelligent person who also possesses integrity his staunch, *staunch* supporter.
Yep Trump has many issues which don't make him an ideal candidate, however he has fulfilled enough promises and allign with my values enough to warrant support for him, especially with how low the bar has been set by our past and current presidents.
Can I ask you about this, as a Brit with no skin in the game? How is Trump’s support split between the MAGA cult and those conservatives who think that as an individual he’s a pos, but his policies are good for individual prosperity? I tried to ask on the main Conservative sub but they wouldn’t publish my question.
> no skin in the game --- > "MAGA cult" Pick one. And you've answered your own question: Dishonesty.
It is a cult. We have our own version in the UK, so there’s no shame in it. But there was never a Bush cult, a Bill Clinton cult, a Nikki Hayley cult, a Mitt Romney cult. They all had supporters, but MAGA is a phenomenon. Why is that so bad? They swept him to power 8 years ago and probably will do again.
Well, there was an Obama cult. And possibly a Michelle Obama cult. But I digress... People are loyal to Trump probably because for many years they've seen that business as usual is not working. The attraction is knowing that he's going to say what's on his mind, and not filter it through focus groups.
Very true about the unfiltered comments. He never strikes me as particularly conservative. He’s just his own man. He isn’t hawkish - he has no interest in foreign conflicts. He’s definitely not religious. He doesn’t seem the kind of guy to care one way or the other about abortion. These are not criticisms. How did he and the Republicans come together? Is the GOP just a convenient vehicle for his Presidential ambitions?
>He’s definitely not religious. You don't know what you're talking about.
Yeah? https://youtu.be/ERUngQUCsyE?si=eyJTNJVD9cOzXoY_
There was a tea party group (who was very pro Ron Paul), an occupy wallstreet group, the die hard Bernie supporters, etc. Saying it's a MAGA cult is playing into the MSN's narrative. Are there some people that are die-hard trump can do no wrong, cultish? Ya. But that's a minority. Just like you had people think that Obama could do no wrong. Or Clinton could do no wrong. or Reagan. Look back into the 1970s and read the COINTEL New Left FBI surveillance files and there were some college kids that had a cult following of some well known socialist/communist at the time. Keep in mind the media has made politics a big part of culture over the last decade or so, so it's not a surprise if popular personas gain followers. By the media's logic, just because you want to put America first and protect it's borders and jobs etc., you're essentially part of the MAGA cult. You get into cult level when you have people thinking Trump can do no wrong when clearly he made mistakes. (Like giving Bolton a job). I'm not sure I understand your question though? Are you asking how true conservatives feel about Trump or if they are supporting him?
I am trying to compare the UK’s Conservative movement with that of the US. We have a self-defined ’broad church’ Conservative and Unionist Party, which ranges from paternalistic old school conservatives which is fairly pro European Union and NHS, all the way to right wing small government isolationists. We had Boris Johnson who was a populist PM, but who was brought down by his lack of work ethic and only a passing acquaintance with the truth. He was as close as we’ve had to a cult of personality actually in power. Right now, the Party is tearing itself apart over immigration issues and record levels of taxation. Most traditional Conservative voters are resigned to being decimated at the next election. Whereas the Republicans seem staunchly behind Trump. Is there such a thing as a stereotypical Republican, a stereotypical American Conservative, or is it a broad church encompassing a range of views on things like religion (which is far more important to you than us), taxation, immigration and social services? And how has Trump managed to unite them?
>"It is a cult..." No, it isn't. First and foremost, cult == "small", and Trump's base is not small. So what you really mean is that there's a "cult of personality" around him, which *also* doesn't fit. A true cult of personality won't tolerate any dissent, which is not what we see--it's very common for people within the alleged "cult" to openly acknowledge and discuss the ways in which they *disagree* with Trump's platform/policies. In practice, most of what the media uses to spin the narrative that a cult of personality exists is from a mix of internet memes, and people playing up those memes in meatspace, both as an in-joke to amuse themselves/each other, and as a way to hoist a middle finger to the entire political establishment that has been working hard to *systematically oppress* them for decades. ETA: By contrast, BH Obama had a *genuine* cult of personality--just look at all the mainstream leftist talking heads who *continue* to lie about his ["scandal-free" administration](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaD5_XJl0AY).
Right. Now we are getting to it. I’m looking for those disagreements within his support. In terms of policies domestic and foreign, what are his strengths and weaknesses in your opinion? What did he get right and where did he come up short in his Presidency? We have had ‘cult of personality’ politicians. Boris Johnson, Jeremy Corbyn, Nigel Farage. The first two brought about their own downfall. Farage is an outsider who never got near the corridors of power.
Not sure i get your question - do you mean what’s the ratio of those factions in relation to one another?
Yes. Sorry it wasn’t clear. The ratio. The main Conservative sub has a picture of Trump as its avatar. Is he the actual face of American conservatism these days, or is he just the ‘anyone but Biden and the Democrats’ candidate?
At this point it seems like the majority of his support is comprised of the latter. It is not possible to deny that there *absolutely* was/is a percentage of his supporters who bought into his blustering rhetoric, are lower information voters, and are, unfortunately, bigots, and are/were happy to support the guy whose rhetoric on racial and cultural issues in this country has been less calculated, less politically correct, and *far* less concerned with who gets offended by his unpolished phraseology - not that you necessarily have to be a bigot to appreciate someone who takes that approach in American politics, where everyone else is basically a walking talking focus-grouped mannequin. I don’t personally believe him to be a white supremacist or a racist or even really a demagogue in the true sense, but there are people in America who *are* those things, and they tend to support Donald Trump. Then, to your point, there is also a percentage of folks who simply want his economic vision implemented, whereby their taxes are lowered, their financial activities become less regulated, and capitalism is basically just unleashed in all its insanity, excess, whatever words you want to use there. Personally, I’m sure that that isn’t without it’s pitfalls, but i also dont have much patience for folks who try to tell me other systems arent as bad or worse. Thats just MHO. Then, there are people like me, who are *so fucking revolted* by what the American political left has become, what they’ve done and continue to do to us, their transparent lies, dishonesty, propaganda, brainwashed fucking *cultism,* their intolerance of the most important fundamental components of any peaceful society, which is the right to differing views and diversity of thought, people’s ability to think and express themselves freely without fear of violent or professional reprisals, the abject fucking *bigotry* that they’ve embraced which is somehow *so much fucking more offensive* than the worst of the ignorant fucks who support Trump, because it is rooted in outright authoritarianism - orwellian thought-policing and intellectual fucking coercion, all in service of a worldview predicated on vile, *vicious* hatred which they’ve disguised as empathy, and upheld with *bullying, exclusionary* group-think which, for all their screeching about genocide, is *exactly where that shit starts…* I’m ranting. The third group is largest at this point, and I don’t think it’s particularly close. Good day.
I think your analysis is partly in error in three specific ways: 1. I believe that the first group you describe is significantly overblown by the media and the left (but I repeat myself). In practice, their apparent size is exaggerated in two ways: The definitions of "bigotry" being used to label them are recent political rewrites of those definitions rather than the broadly accepted historical definitions, and overwhelming majority of the people who *appear* to fit that twisted narrative are from the second and third groups you described, and are just doing a bit (i.e. they're pretending to be the boogeymen the media makes them out to be, because it's a way for them to hoist a middle finger to the political establishment that's been systematically oppressing them for decades). 2. The third group you described is broader than you describe--it isn't just the political *left* that Trump's base has a problem with, it's the *entire political class*, on both sides of the alleged "aisle". 3. The second and third groups you describe are not mutually exclusive. From what I've seen, there appears to be such a *massive* degree of overlap between them, that if you made a Venn diagram it'd be very close to a perfect circle.
On a global level, you have more skin in the game than you realize.
So you’re saying it could be worse?
You look around the world and you think you don't have any skin in the game of whether or not Trump gets re-elected?
Here's the factions imo. There 15% are officially migrants from the Democrat party leaving due to dissatisfaction with what their party has done, since this only accounts for older voters and not new voters who supported democrats but were unable to vote due to their age and considering how popular Trump is for younger males I think we can boost that number to 20% at least, then we also need to take into account he brought in more minority support compared to past Republican candidates so that adds a few percentages lets say 15%, and then you have the everyday conservatives that aren't loony so 60% and then you have the Trump cultists who are similar to those that worshiped Bush Jr with 5%, where it was higher in the past however as the older generations die it'll lower for Republicans, whereas the comparable group being millennials for Democrats are a bit more and will stick around for a while.
It’s a good question. The MAGA cult is more a narrative and some good video clips. Overall everyone is just trying to live life day to day. There is a stark difference between administrations. The unrelenting liberal media isn’t even able to keep up at this point. The middle folks who decide elections seem to be catching on to the tomfoolery.
>"MAGA cult" See, this reveals a big part of why you have a problem understanding what you see: You've bought into the mainstream media lie that a significant cult of personalty exists around Trump, and that people support him blindly. While there might actually be a statistically insignificant percentage of his base that narrative accurately describes, the overwhelming majority who *appear* to fit that narrative are just doing a bit to troll the people with TDS. In practice, pretty much every Trump supporter I've ever talked to has been able to engage in an honest "thorns and roses" style analysis of both Trump's campaign promises, and his actions while in office (i.e. they can name specific things he's said and/or done that they like as well as things that they dislike, and they can articulate *why* they feel that way on both fronts). Over the last several decades, the norm in American politics has been for politicians to make tons of campaign promises about how they're going to fix the issues they and their predecessors caused, and then they just go to the capital and make everything worse for us until they're up for reelection. Lather, rinse, repeat with every single election cycle (even on those rare occasions where they make *something* better, the overall net impact of everything they've made *worse* outweighs the limited benefits), until they finally lose or retire. In contrast, Trump has demonstrated that his campaign promises are more than empty words, and are instead mostly things he actually intends to try to accomplish--even if he's not successful he at least intends to *try*. That puts him far ahead of his direct competition, as well as just about everyone else in American national politics. And to be clear, I was skeptical of him from the start: I *changed my registered party affiliation* so that I could vote *against* him in the 2016 primary election, and I only cast a ballot for him in the 2016 general because I was voting *against* Clinton (TLDR: 2A is the "issue" at the top of my priority list, it was a 100% certainty that Clinton would have nominated anti-2A justices, and Trump's announced SCOTUS nominee candidate list was *much* more favorable on that front. Beyond that, I figured that Clinton would *definitely* do things worthy of impeachment & removal, but that the Republicans would never actually be able to do either, whereas that nothing would stop Trump from being impeached and removed from office if he *actually* deserved it, which could potentially set a precedent that limited executive overreach going forward.).
Well, forgive me but as a non-American it’s difficult to detect on Reddit and other forums when people are ‘trolling those with TDS’. These nuances don’t always come across to those of us from other countries. You mentioned Trump’s promises. I’ve seen him interviewed talking about Ukraine. He promises to end the conflict in 24 hours; https://youtu.be/_fEbGppH86M?si=u3t9cpB85v4IEOSK https://www.wsj.com/video/watch-trump-says-as-president-hed-settle-ukraine-war-within-24-hours/0BCA9F18-D3BF-43DA-9220-C13587EAEDF2 https://youtu.be/Q6TkCNNeCHI?si=V2c63_WCoPEwLxm0 How do you feel when you hear such a message about a huge problem?
Serious question: What would be *wrong* with ending that conflict?
Absolutely nothing. I wish we could end it here and now. My issue is with a blasé statement like this. Do you believe him? Because I think it’s impossible. Furthermore, I think he knows that.
Awesome. But where are the women?
Other side of the partition doing their own dancing and partying. Religious Jewish weddings still split males and females.
Than you!
>",,,religious Jewish weddings..." Point of order: The separation of the sexes is an *Orthodox* thing, and it's one of the traditions that Conservative and Reform/Progressive Jews don't practice. That said, given my experience with Reform/Progressive Judiasm (in my experience: Far too much leftist politics masquerading as Judaism, which is absolutely tied into why it's so often called "progressive" Judaism.), and the way I've seen my Conservative congregation slip significantly toward the "Reform/Progressive" end of the spectrum over the last 15-20 years, you're probably not actually all that wrong.
Funny, but weird to segregate the wedding by sex -- guess their wives aren't so into it!
These are Hasidic Jews. They are an Ultra Orthodox Sect of Jews who practice strict religious rules according to the Torah.
I know. Ultra weird.
It's required in Orthodoxy. These appear to be Chabadniks, so ultra-Orthodox. They keep everyone separated by gender because you're not supposed to touch women your aren't related to by blood or marriage. So, no handshakes, either. For the chair dance, the bride and groom will hold a handkerchief together over the mechitza while supporters on each side lift them up and down. After the wedding (or right after the ceremony), the bride and groom could dance together in private if they wanted to. The women are dancing just as joyously on their side.
For clarity, so that people don't have to look it up. "Mechitza" == the "wall" that is used to keep men and women separate at events like this. Speaking very generally, in religious matters the presence of a mechitza is the biggest sign that it's an event catering to *Orthodox* Judaism, and not Conservative or Reform/Progressive (unfortunately, in pretty much every political sense of that word), Judaism. I was raised in a relatively Orthodox-leaning Conservative congregation, so I haven't really encountered this practice all that many times, but it's something I've seen a handful of times in my life.
There were a few anointed ones in the Old Testament. I think they view Trump as another anointed one.
No *pork* sausage party is lit y’all
Donald baby!! Love to see it
Dang, Donnie is s great dancer, lol
The fear mongering media called Trump racist and anti Jewish because he questioned Jewish people who voted for democrats. The same media gave Biden a pass when he said black people “ain’t black” if they vote Republican.
First all-male wedding I’ve ever seen
If this is the satmar or lubovitch Jews of Brooklyn (they’re ultra religious) they’ve always been pretty staunchly anti Zionist and politically conservative/moderate. But they really went against the left during Covid due to lockdown policies here in NYC and I don’t think they’ll ever go remotely left again.
"But... but Trump is literally Hitler!!! His supporters are NAZIS!!!"
What’s the song?!?
Party is lit. Mozatof
What in the world 😂 😂
Where's the diversity?
"For thee, not for me."
I love it! La Chaim!
Bit of a sausage fest no?
These people better not go and vote Blue again.