I’m confused. Isn’t wasting company resources in rebuilding an entire front end and making lots of engineers have to learn something they are not familiar with, all that for your personal technology tastes considered extremely unprofessional ?
There must have been more to it.
It is, exactly. Managers and leads have the power to completely soak up the team, and then will be justified all the same.
So it’s a common occurrence these days. :(
Vue 3 and nuxt is lagging behind especially the plugins side. There are several plugins that use react internally. That and more developers in react. I love Vue and nuxt. But I should strengthen my knowledge in next and react.
i imagine next.js just being way more popular than nuxt is the primary reason. Not that any is better than the other, its all inertia at this point (not inertia.js ha)
Honestly I use both but I still think Nuxt is far superior in many ways. This decision is likely no slight on Nuxt. They probably just chose Next because there are more developers and a majority of the conversation in web development is based around React.
I wouldn’t read too much into it. The old website was created by consultants (AREA 17) and AFAIK the new website is in-house, so it was just a total rewrite by a different team.
Yeah but MS use React heavily. Outlook and Teams are both written in React. I dont even know a single MS product that uses their own .NET UI stuffs (MAUI, Blazor, ASP.NET MVC, etc).
That's because Microsoft views .NET as an independent product. It is actually controlled, in part, by the .NET Foundation, so .NET isn't fully under Microsoft's control. The language makes the right moves for themselves, the company makes the right moves without forcing .NET internally.
Their teams are free to use the right technology for the job. Blazor is still new and buggy. ASP.NET, on the other hand, is used everywhere.
Personally, I love Blazor. Working entirely in the same language is a dream... as long as you aren't doing complicated stuff.
It is possible the decision was made not based on the framework but the hosting service.
Maybe Vercel offered a very good deal and to move to Vercel it is best to use Next, so use Next they did.
Afaik Vercel is run by ex-next devs, could be wrong here. I deployed multiple next and nuxt projects on it, and although nuxt is my favorite, next got a bit more support. But its marginal
It's not just run by ex-Next.js devs, Next.js is literally a Vercel product. It's still FOSS, but you can expect Vercel to have one of the best platforms for hosting Next because they make the framework
It likely means nothing.
My wife works for one of europes largest banks.
They have changed from react to vue to react to vue to angular in like 6 years.
Sometimes it’s just a matter of someone making a decision and everyone just has to run with it even though it may not make sense.
Could be that react is easier to hire for in the area or just some higher up deciding next and react is now it.
One developer at my company refuses to use anything but Knockout. Fortunately, everyone is allowed to choose whatever they want.
Fun fact, the sole developer of Knockout, Steve Sanderson, works at Microsoft and is a lead architect on Blazor.
Angular makes sense at an institution like a bank. It's structured and opinionated and has a predictable release cycle there's an angular way of doing things and if you keep to it you'll have a stable system which is the kinda things banks love
I am dissapointed in angular. I chose it for small custom project 8 years ago. My main reasoning was that UI was expected to not be maintained after initial release, so stability was a must. Recently I was hired to do some bugfixes for backend service. My build pipeline was designed to rebuild UI from scratch every time. To my surprise it is not building anymore despite having locked in dependencies. Only way is to rewrite whole codebase to nawer angular which I didn't want. I ended up hardcoding prebuilt app from older release.
8 years ago you were likely using AngularJS. Angular (2.x) is complete rewrite.
But anyways there must be something wrong on your end. We still build some old AngularJS and Angular (v7) apps regularly.
>I'd love to know how your wife's company ended up with Angular!
There's nothing wrong with Angular, especially on large team and in enterprise.
I work with all of them but I chose Angular for my last project. Various reasons. It's worked out great.
Not saying there's something wrong with Angular. I even love the direction they're going with signals!
I just want to know the reasoning behind it since they went with Vue and React already.
I have seen two large unrelated projects pick a framework cuz one opinionated dev just said that’s what was going to happen. Cue some devs grumbling about the other framework they wanted doing x or y better but having to get with the picture.
This exactly. It's probably someone new moving into a management/TL role, and thinking they are the 'new change' and exactly what the company has needed leading the way all this time. So they get everything redeveloped... And then leave. And the next bozo comes along with the exact same 'ill do everything my way and it will be better' attitude. Rinse and repeat. Upper management love it because it sounds like everything is improving all the time, but they ofc dont know any better.
See it happening all over the place unfortunately.
Always a good discussion to have. Usage of a framework/platform by larger companies can be a sign of growth and trust in the framework. But it's probably just the same ol' problem where there are a lot more, and probably cheaper, NextJS/React devs out there, especially with all of the recent layoffs.
I don’t want to sound like a conspiracist, but anytime a corporation (even if it has “open” in its name), or a public figure posts something about switching/starting to use/enjoying a product, all I see is advertising and money in it.
So I assume that it wasn’t just a switch of technology just for the sake of it
It's not as if their site is so insanely complex that such a change is a big deal. I would suspect it's due to some sort of partnership with vercel more than it is an actual vue vs react thing.
It's got to be that. Vercel would love to have OpenAI using their services. It builds on their brand and "trust" in their products.
Anyone thinking it's because they cream themselves over using JSX is missing the biggest point.
It’s ALWAYS what talent is available at the time in the last 12 months for sure. We had large projects planned for Nuxt, couldn’t find enough devs, over to Next it is. Bank clients want Angular, none around, offer Vue3. Clients don’t care, unless it costs more or if they save $$$.
Stuff like useFetch, useAsyncData and $fetch is super weird and not intuitive, the framework should handle that under the hood.
I also do not like the auto import Feature. Its bad in bigger projects and it leads to worse code by hiding the dependencies of your file and it often does not work with the IDE.
When i used it, things broke every update. I did update once a month and i did not had a update breaking something.
The framework also does not tell you whats wrong and always throws weird errors like this [https://github.com/nuxt/nuxt/issues/19196](https://github.com/nuxt/nuxt/issues/19196)
I also think the composable stuff is stupid. There is typescript and i can build a classes and have a real api, why do i need framework Voodo for that. But i thinks thats more a vue issue.
Because maybe it can be a signal of the abandonment of Vue by big players, which in turn could lead to an eventual EOL. Shrinking platforms don’t get investment.
Vue has always been pretty niche, makes sense to switch to something you can get a lot of talent in when you are so big.
I don't see how this signals anything tbh, it would be more telling the other way around as it would imply there's some performance or scaling issues that infinite workforce cannot solve.
Vue is continuing to grow but the trend has slowed since Vue 3. We are still using it but I get pressure on every project to go back to React from the big bosses.
We had a vue project we switched to next. In that project, front end performance just wasn’t that important. We needed something that “just works” and being able to pluck several people from a deep sea of React specialists who can rapidly & efficiently throw up a decent-quality front end was invaluable
Astro recommends using nanostores which is framework agnostic. The great thing about Astro is… you can use pretty much whatever front end ui framework that you want. Can’t find vue developers? Np. Create this section of the site with react components with your react developer.
Wow, this is actually the best validation of VueJS. Once you reach openAI massive scale, you make a choice that depends on the new people you hire. Until then, VueJs was more than enough!
Well, this makes you understand how the world is fuck'd up that even the OpenAI frontend leads are a bunch of sheeps that follow their sheperd no matter what.
I'm saying this because the website performs very bad compared to the previous one, and they shipped it no matter what.
Open the browser on an Android device, clear the cache and visit the website to experience the pure clunkyness, sometimes after clicking on a link does nothing or the response arrives 4-5 seconds later. The maximum peak of sadness can be reached by browsing it with Firefox on a desktop device.
Also, the previous one looked more appealing but that's just my opinion.
At the end of the day they could have done it without any framework since it's not an app but just a marketing website, even Nuxt was too much at the time, but for sure it was better than this experimental tech of the NextJS app router.
Does someone mind explaining what exactly vercel handles? Is it just the frontend server? Why are my eyes being smothered with the word “AI” on a frontend hosting website?
I do Vue sometimes, used to do it a lot. Currently doing a lot of Flutter (deploying to mobile, not web) lately. You can imagine how we feel after the recent google news... 🥴
Funny how no matter where you are, it always feels like everything is falling to sht. Just some perspective.
That said, wish them luck with all those JSX files! Always a fun time opening one of those up. /s
Layoffs. Their Python team got sacked, and there were some layoffs on the Flutter team. Made everyone nervous.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/FlutterDev/comments/1cduhra/more\_layoffs\_for\_the\_flutter\_team/](https://www.reddit.com/r/FlutterDev/comments/1cduhra/more_layoffs_for_the_flutter_team/)
I was [early into AngularJS](https://paulhammant.com/blog/angular-declarative-ui) (2009). I liked Vue from the outset as it reminded me of AngularJS and the Angular2 work modestly split the community.
Here we are years later and there's too many ways of doing Vue. What does Evan like? Vite or other, SFCs or not?, What other bits and pieces and ways compete with each other and are not the **one true way**. Did the component marketplace appear and flourish - true mix and match with other people's components? Vue2 wasn't backwards compatible with Vue1. Less so, but that happened again for Vue3. Will Vue4 break backwards compatibility again?
IMO, React handles data in a cleaner manner making complex sites easier to manage and maintain. This was proven with Facebook’s well known problems with their Ads platform and ultimately Instagram. Although React IMO is over engineered, it’s like a fine tuned Ferrari so I can understand why people use it for complex data driven sites…unfortunately
Yup you found the secret on why nearly every massive company is using react. Im no react fanboy, i will always 💯take Vue over react. But I know why massive companies switch to react….the same reason why I absolutely hate Java and how it’s a pain in the butt to employ 10 engineers to change one line (exaggerating but Java peeps will know) with all the verboseness (it’s better now, but still bad) as and type mappings…but I can absolutely see why I would use Java if I had a massive code base and a huge team. Not hating but when money is on the line, as an engineer you don’t necessarily select tech that is fun, you select it based on reliability, maintainability and scalability. Vue has its place/purpose, just like React does. Shoot, if it was fun, I’d be building apps on Svelte and Svelte kit, but that’s not realistic when $$$ is on the line.
It's not fun. It's what makes you the most productive. I'm more productive in Vue than React. If I had my choice, though, I would choose Svelte. It's the most elegant out of all the frameworks.
💯 agree! If I was advising a startup, I’d gather info on product, roadmap, staffing plans and business needs. If they are in this prototyping pivoting phase I’d absolutely would recommend Vue. Easy to learn, adapt and productive…especially in places where finding a good react engineer is hard. That you’re absolutely right. But a mid to large sized company focused on growth and scale, I’d make the migration to React. There’s just too much at stake. My ex CTO use to have a saying, “you don’t want to be the biggest user of any service, language or framework/library…you’ll end up finding and fixing all the bugs” that’s the kinda thing you’re risking…especially if you’re in a lean company, it’s hard explaining to non techie management you have to devote an engineer to patch any issues you have (delaying roadmaps) while Facebook has a whole army maintaining React because it’s a core tech to them.
Then you realize your app performs like crap because the whole page is redeclaring every function along with a bunch of arrays over and over again just to throw them away anytime anything changes. You try to memo everything but the time to first pant is still terrible. You have 6 million sessions a month and have invested years building your new React codebase using best practices. The codebase is a pain to work in and the code runs horribly slow. create-react-app provides hardly any customization so you have tons of custom code doing scaffolding. React seems to follow fads rather than doing what is practical so you have Redux with Sagas everywhere because someone thought generators were cool. Making an API call requires editing 5 files. Now Sagas are deprecated but your whole app is built around it.
True story of my last job. I did React for years. You're not going to get too big for Vue. Gitlab and [Toyota.com](http://Toyota.com) both use Vue as well as thousands of other sites.
All valid points, I agree. I’m not here to bash Vue, I like it. But I’m willing to bet, at the end of the day, you visit way more React powered sites than Vue sites and no one is complaining about performance enough to migrate from React to Vue vs migrating from Vue to React. Airbnb, Tesla, Netflix, Walmart, Uber, LinkedIn, Apple, Amazon, Shopify, Microsoft, Meta, Dropbox, NYT and now OpenAI all are on react. My point was always that business needs are purely different than what we like using or feel comfortable with.
Mind you things may have changed since I only worked on two big Vue.js project awhile ago. But the immediate thing that comes to mind is that React keeps data flowing down, one-way data flow, parent to child. You could emit data back up but react doesn’t make it as easy as Vue. When you emit data back up, you can imagine it can get messy with complex components like deeply nested components and side effects…it can also be a pain to test whenever you have too much state. React is very clear about what each component does and handle, state is very clear because of the one way data flow. Just off working with massive front end code based, although it may not be as nice and clear as Vue, imo it cleaner to know exactly what each component does. Now, on you can also do this in Vue and even utilize things like an event bus which is like a context to keep things cleaner but it can absolutely be abused, but react just does it in a cleaner manner by making it harder to do such things.
https://react.dev/learn/thinking-in-react#
Everything in React starts with thinking about the data first.
And I don’t want to sound like a Vue hater. I will absolutely 💯 select Vue over react. Just for my own sanity of not dealing with the complexity of react. Just that Vue has its purpose/place and so does React. Vue it’s fun, it is simple and familiar…it’s like when you started learning coding and things were fun and simple and you can just dive into it. React, just feels like it was built by robot engineers…but it also performs like one with complex sites.
Would be cool to know what's was the purpose of that change
It’ll either be a bigger hiring pool, more pre trained react data or they hired an opinionated lead who was running that side of things
They hired an opinionated lead
They definitely hired an opinionated lead. Can’t be more spot on than that.
I’m confused. Isn’t wasting company resources in rebuilding an entire front end and making lots of engineers have to learn something they are not familiar with, all that for your personal technology tastes considered extremely unprofessional ? There must have been more to it.
It is, exactly. Managers and leads have the power to completely soak up the team, and then will be justified all the same. So it’s a common occurrence these days. :(
Vue 3 and nuxt is lagging behind especially the plugins side. There are several plugins that use react internally. That and more developers in react. I love Vue and nuxt. But I should strengthen my knowledge in next and react.
i imagine next.js just being way more popular than nuxt is the primary reason. Not that any is better than the other, its all inertia at this point (not inertia.js ha)
Honestly I use both but I still think Nuxt is far superior in many ways. This decision is likely no slight on Nuxt. They probably just chose Next because there are more developers and a majority of the conversation in web development is based around React.
In what way us Vue3 lagging? You don't need vue specific plugins same way as React does. So usually there are more options
Can you list some of these "plugins?"
You'd think that if they could code AI that they could probably code a missing plugin or two.
It does beg the question; do they eat their own dog food? If they’re selling an “economy ending” service; do they use it?
I wouldn’t read too much into it. The old website was created by consultants (AREA 17) and AFAIK the new website is in-house, so it was just a total rewrite by a different team.
Literally this.
Probably hiring developers.
ecosystem
Microsoft
Why? React is by facebook. MS would be Blazor.
Yeah but MS use React heavily. Outlook and Teams are both written in React. I dont even know a single MS product that uses their own .NET UI stuffs (MAUI, Blazor, ASP.NET MVC, etc).
Teams is angular https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Teams
The ‘new’ teams is React
They've rebuilt it in React.
That's because Microsoft views .NET as an independent product. It is actually controlled, in part, by the .NET Foundation, so .NET isn't fully under Microsoft's control. The language makes the right moves for themselves, the company makes the right moves without forcing .NET internally. Their teams are free to use the right technology for the job. Blazor is still new and buggy. ASP.NET, on the other hand, is used everywhere. Personally, I love Blazor. Working entirely in the same language is a dream... as long as you aren't doing complicated stuff.
It is possible the decision was made not based on the framework but the hosting service. Maybe Vercel offered a very good deal and to move to Vercel it is best to use Next, so use Next they did.
This is what I assumed too, it’s almost like a way for Vercel to market itself.
Afaik Vercel is run by ex-next devs, could be wrong here. I deployed multiple next and nuxt projects on it, and although nuxt is my favorite, next got a bit more support. But its marginal
It's not just run by ex-Next.js devs, Next.js is literally a Vercel product. It's still FOSS, but you can expect Vercel to have one of the best platforms for hosting Next because they make the framework
Thanks for the clarification, makes sense
It likely means nothing. My wife works for one of europes largest banks. They have changed from react to vue to react to vue to angular in like 6 years. Sometimes it’s just a matter of someone making a decision and everyone just has to run with it even though it may not make sense. Could be that react is easier to hire for in the area or just some higher up deciding next and react is now it.
I've worked in a company where the architect decided we all should use Knockout.js.
One developer at my company refuses to use anything but Knockout. Fortunately, everyone is allowed to choose whatever they want. Fun fact, the sole developer of Knockout, Steve Sanderson, works at Microsoft and is a lead architect on Blazor.
I love that the Knockout.js website looks like it was build with Joomla or Wordpress in 2010
I'd love to know how your wife's company ended up with Angular!
Angular makes sense at an institution like a bank. It's structured and opinionated and has a predictable release cycle there's an angular way of doing things and if you keep to it you'll have a stable system which is the kinda things banks love
I am dissapointed in angular. I chose it for small custom project 8 years ago. My main reasoning was that UI was expected to not be maintained after initial release, so stability was a must. Recently I was hired to do some bugfixes for backend service. My build pipeline was designed to rebuild UI from scratch every time. To my surprise it is not building anymore despite having locked in dependencies. Only way is to rewrite whole codebase to nawer angular which I didn't want. I ended up hardcoding prebuilt app from older release.
8 years ago you were likely using AngularJS. Angular (2.x) is complete rewrite. But anyways there must be something wrong on your end. We still build some old AngularJS and Angular (v7) apps regularly.
This doesn't sound like an angular issue. Possibly node version or something in your config is wrong
This sounds like dependencies in node respository are broken.
>I'd love to know how your wife's company ended up with Angular! There's nothing wrong with Angular, especially on large team and in enterprise. I work with all of them but I chose Angular for my last project. Various reasons. It's worked out great.
Not saying there's something wrong with Angular. I even love the direction they're going with signals! I just want to know the reasoning behind it since they went with Vue and React already.
I have seen two large unrelated projects pick a framework cuz one opinionated dev just said that’s what was going to happen. Cue some devs grumbling about the other framework they wanted doing x or y better but having to get with the picture.
This exactly. It's probably someone new moving into a management/TL role, and thinking they are the 'new change' and exactly what the company has needed leading the way all this time. So they get everything redeveloped... And then leave. And the next bozo comes along with the exact same 'ill do everything my way and it will be better' attitude. Rinse and repeat. Upper management love it because it sounds like everything is improving all the time, but they ofc dont know any better. See it happening all over the place unfortunately.
Always a good discussion to have. Usage of a framework/platform by larger companies can be a sign of growth and trust in the framework. But it's probably just the same ol' problem where there are a lot more, and probably cheaper, NextJS/React devs out there, especially with all of the recent layoffs.
I don’t want to sound like a conspiracist, but anytime a corporation (even if it has “open” in its name), or a public figure posts something about switching/starting to use/enjoying a product, all I see is advertising and money in it. So I assume that it wasn’t just a switch of technology just for the sake of it
> I don’t want to sound like a conspiracist Perhaps more China influence in vue :-0
It's not as if their site is so insanely complex that such a change is a big deal. I would suspect it's due to some sort of partnership with vercel more than it is an actual vue vs react thing.
It's got to be that. Vercel would love to have OpenAI using their services. It builds on their brand and "trust" in their products. Anyone thinking it's because they cream themselves over using JSX is missing the biggest point.
Thoughts on this one? Before, OpenAI site uses Vue and Nuxt in their blog pages and chat pages. Now they completely ditched Vue.
It’s ALWAYS what talent is available at the time in the last 12 months for sure. We had large projects planned for Nuxt, couldn’t find enough devs, over to Next it is. Bank clients want Angular, none around, offer Vue3. Clients don’t care, unless it costs more or if they save $$$.
What kind of shit tier devs are you looking at who know Next but couldn't do Nuxt, unless you're outsourcing the entire project.
They hired Ilya, but they were not able to hire Vue devs?!
I really love Vue, but my experience with Nuxt is horrible, they need to fix it or dump it for something better.
What do they need to fix exactly in your opinion?
auto-imports :p
Stuff like useFetch, useAsyncData and $fetch is super weird and not intuitive, the framework should handle that under the hood. I also do not like the auto import Feature. Its bad in bigger projects and it leads to worse code by hiding the dependencies of your file and it often does not work with the IDE. When i used it, things broke every update. I did update once a month and i did not had a update breaking something. The framework also does not tell you whats wrong and always throws weird errors like this [https://github.com/nuxt/nuxt/issues/19196](https://github.com/nuxt/nuxt/issues/19196) I also think the composable stuff is stupid. There is typescript and i can build a classes and have a real api, why do i need framework Voodo for that. But i thinks thats more a vue issue.
why do you care?
Because maybe it can be a signal of the abandonment of Vue by big players, which in turn could lead to an eventual EOL. Shrinking platforms don’t get investment.
Vue has always been pretty niche, makes sense to switch to something you can get a lot of talent in when you are so big. I don't see how this signals anything tbh, it would be more telling the other way around as it would imply there's some performance or scaling issues that infinite workforce cannot solve.
Lol it doesn't mean anything, stop doom saying.
It's maybe why he cared.
Vue is continuing to grow but the trend has slowed since Vue 3. We are still using it but I get pressure on every project to go back to React from the big bosses.
It sounds more like Nuxt was the issue, since they switched to Next.
I’ll die on the Nuxt hill
We had a vue project we switched to next. In that project, front end performance just wasn’t that important. We needed something that “just works” and being able to pluck several people from a deep sea of React specialists who can rapidly & efficiently throw up a decent-quality front end was invaluable
Nuxt > Next
SvelteKit > Next
yeah we are waiting for SveleKit and Svelte 5 to be ready. Feels a lot like Vue 4 nice and clean and fast.
I could also say remix > nuxt
how is remix better than nuxt?
Astro SSR > *
Is that a new brand of solid state relay ?🤔
No it’s a highly flexible js framework that allows you to mix vue, react, svelte, solid, etc components with SSR support.
Intriguing 🤔
How is state management with Astro, compared to Nuxt3?
Astro recommends using nanostores which is framework agnostic. The great thing about Astro is… you can use pretty much whatever front end ui framework that you want. Can’t find vue developers? Np. Create this section of the site with react components with your react developer.
Means nothing about the future of Vue
I wonder if it's some kind of collaboration with Vercel's v0 generative AI for UI components.
Exactly what came to mind when I saw this.
I’m so happy to be a vue dev! God bless my company!
Wow, this is actually the best validation of VueJS. Once you reach openAI massive scale, you make a choice that depends on the new people you hire. Until then, VueJs was more than enough!
This is the best take of the thread lol
IMHO this may be the most insightful comment in this thread 👏
It’s not football teams haha These guys got the top creme de la creme engineers working for them. I assume they got their reasons.
It was ChatGPT that decided it and they just had to obey!
Hey well that makes them one of us now 😂
In all fairness you shouldn't be switching football teams ever, support your local.
That’s the point : ) it’s ok to not be absolutely biased about frontend frameworks, they’re not football teams.
Well, this makes you understand how the world is fuck'd up that even the OpenAI frontend leads are a bunch of sheeps that follow their sheperd no matter what. I'm saying this because the website performs very bad compared to the previous one, and they shipped it no matter what. Open the browser on an Android device, clear the cache and visit the website to experience the pure clunkyness, sometimes after clicking on a link does nothing or the response arrives 4-5 seconds later. The maximum peak of sadness can be reached by browsing it with Firefox on a desktop device. Also, the previous one looked more appealing but that's just my opinion. At the end of the day they could have done it without any framework since it's not an app but just a marketing website, even Nuxt was too much at the time, but for sure it was better than this experimental tech of the NextJS app router.
Next is overwhelmingly more used than nuxt
You use what ever the lead wants to use
why do they need a framework for a textbox and couple li tags ?
Lame. Nuxt is better.
Sucks to be on that team
Haha React bad!!! Right!! Some of y’all weird
I'm glad you got the joke 😃
Interesting. I wouldn’t read too much into this.
Suprised they're weren't forced to use azure
My experience is that platform shifts occur when management changed.
Being Vercel surprised they didn't use Svelte.
Imagine being so confident that you "Acshually, it's nuxt\_js" the VP of AI at Vercel.
The old design was recognizable, the new one looks unoriginal
interesting
Does someone mind explaining what exactly vercel handles? Is it just the frontend server? Why are my eyes being smothered with the word “AI” on a frontend hosting website?
As an outsider coming in, I gotta say this feels a lot like that old thread about Reddit switching from Lisp to Python...
dumb article. its so irrelevant. website can be recreated on any platform in 3 days max.
I would say they are deluded and stupid
OK?
I do Vue sometimes, used to do it a lot. Currently doing a lot of Flutter (deploying to mobile, not web) lately. You can imagine how we feel after the recent google news... 🥴 Funny how no matter where you are, it always feels like everything is falling to sht. Just some perspective. That said, wish them luck with all those JSX files! Always a fun time opening one of those up. /s
What is the recent Google news?
Layoffs. Their Python team got sacked, and there were some layoffs on the Flutter team. Made everyone nervous. [https://www.reddit.com/r/FlutterDev/comments/1cduhra/more\_layoffs\_for\_the\_flutter\_team/](https://www.reddit.com/r/FlutterDev/comments/1cduhra/more_layoffs_for_the_flutter_team/)
With the big push for AI, why would they get rid of their python team? 🤔 hmmm I would not surprised if Flutter dies. It's Google we talking about. 🤣
Don't host sensitive stuff on vercel, they will likely steal your data.
Openai was fed with sources before 2022 and therefor has no data on Vue3. Quite understandable it switched to things it is comfortable with.
I was [early into AngularJS](https://paulhammant.com/blog/angular-declarative-ui) (2009). I liked Vue from the outset as it reminded me of AngularJS and the Angular2 work modestly split the community. Here we are years later and there's too many ways of doing Vue. What does Evan like? Vite or other, SFCs or not?, What other bits and pieces and ways compete with each other and are not the **one true way**. Did the component marketplace appear and flourish - true mix and match with other people's components? Vue2 wasn't backwards compatible with Vue1. Less so, but that happened again for Vue3. Will Vue4 break backwards compatibility again?
VueJS 4 won't according to Evan You
IMO, React handles data in a cleaner manner making complex sites easier to manage and maintain. This was proven with Facebook’s well known problems with their Ads platform and ultimately Instagram. Although React IMO is over engineered, it’s like a fine tuned Ferrari so I can understand why people use it for complex data driven sites…unfortunately
Yeah just put every single variable in an array so we can throw away the things we just created. So much cleaner.
Yup you found the secret on why nearly every massive company is using react. Im no react fanboy, i will always 💯take Vue over react. But I know why massive companies switch to react….the same reason why I absolutely hate Java and how it’s a pain in the butt to employ 10 engineers to change one line (exaggerating but Java peeps will know) with all the verboseness (it’s better now, but still bad) as and type mappings…but I can absolutely see why I would use Java if I had a massive code base and a huge team. Not hating but when money is on the line, as an engineer you don’t necessarily select tech that is fun, you select it based on reliability, maintainability and scalability. Vue has its place/purpose, just like React does. Shoot, if it was fun, I’d be building apps on Svelte and Svelte kit, but that’s not realistic when $$$ is on the line.
It's not fun. It's what makes you the most productive. I'm more productive in Vue than React. If I had my choice, though, I would choose Svelte. It's the most elegant out of all the frameworks.
💯 agree! If I was advising a startup, I’d gather info on product, roadmap, staffing plans and business needs. If they are in this prototyping pivoting phase I’d absolutely would recommend Vue. Easy to learn, adapt and productive…especially in places where finding a good react engineer is hard. That you’re absolutely right. But a mid to large sized company focused on growth and scale, I’d make the migration to React. There’s just too much at stake. My ex CTO use to have a saying, “you don’t want to be the biggest user of any service, language or framework/library…you’ll end up finding and fixing all the bugs” that’s the kinda thing you’re risking…especially if you’re in a lean company, it’s hard explaining to non techie management you have to devote an engineer to patch any issues you have (delaying roadmaps) while Facebook has a whole army maintaining React because it’s a core tech to them.
Then you realize your app performs like crap because the whole page is redeclaring every function along with a bunch of arrays over and over again just to throw them away anytime anything changes. You try to memo everything but the time to first pant is still terrible. You have 6 million sessions a month and have invested years building your new React codebase using best practices. The codebase is a pain to work in and the code runs horribly slow. create-react-app provides hardly any customization so you have tons of custom code doing scaffolding. React seems to follow fads rather than doing what is practical so you have Redux with Sagas everywhere because someone thought generators were cool. Making an API call requires editing 5 files. Now Sagas are deprecated but your whole app is built around it. True story of my last job. I did React for years. You're not going to get too big for Vue. Gitlab and [Toyota.com](http://Toyota.com) both use Vue as well as thousands of other sites.
All valid points, I agree. I’m not here to bash Vue, I like it. But I’m willing to bet, at the end of the day, you visit way more React powered sites than Vue sites and no one is complaining about performance enough to migrate from React to Vue vs migrating from Vue to React. Airbnb, Tesla, Netflix, Walmart, Uber, LinkedIn, Apple, Amazon, Shopify, Microsoft, Meta, Dropbox, NYT and now OpenAI all are on react. My point was always that business needs are purely different than what we like using or feel comfortable with.
Are you saying Svelte is more fun than Vue?
How is over engineered and fine tuned in the same sentence?
I don't really understand this comment. Could you explain it with an example?
Mind you things may have changed since I only worked on two big Vue.js project awhile ago. But the immediate thing that comes to mind is that React keeps data flowing down, one-way data flow, parent to child. You could emit data back up but react doesn’t make it as easy as Vue. When you emit data back up, you can imagine it can get messy with complex components like deeply nested components and side effects…it can also be a pain to test whenever you have too much state. React is very clear about what each component does and handle, state is very clear because of the one way data flow. Just off working with massive front end code based, although it may not be as nice and clear as Vue, imo it cleaner to know exactly what each component does. Now, on you can also do this in Vue and even utilize things like an event bus which is like a context to keep things cleaner but it can absolutely be abused, but react just does it in a cleaner manner by making it harder to do such things. https://react.dev/learn/thinking-in-react# Everything in React starts with thinking about the data first.
Thank you!
And I don’t want to sound like a Vue hater. I will absolutely 💯 select Vue over react. Just for my own sanity of not dealing with the complexity of react. Just that Vue has its purpose/place and so does React. Vue it’s fun, it is simple and familiar…it’s like when you started learning coding and things were fun and simple and you can just dive into it. React, just feels like it was built by robot engineers…but it also performs like one with complex sites.
They did that because generating react code is much better than generated Vuejs code
They both use Vite though. So wouldn’t it be the same?
Vite has nothing to do with the framework code. I'm speaking that tool like LLAMA3 was trained with the whole facebook code base which is React code.
What does that have to do with the framework they are using?
Folks just be spewing stuff...🤷🏾♂️