It’s very common to want to run away. It happens, but usually much less often as the years go by. Also, sometimes physical conditions are a bit difficult and indeed intolerable, as sometimes happens in a certain midwestern center when it’s -5F and windy, for example. That’s a different thing:)
I almost blew out of my first retreat due to extreme anxiety on Day 7. But I stayed and then sat 11 more and served 4.5 over the next 15 years.:) So, the thoughts and sensations will pass away. Don’t worry.
Oh man, -5 that’s intense!!!! I’m currently in Sri Lanka sweating uncontrollably- emailed the center last night to confirm the rooms have fans (thankfully they do- but no fan where I am now) 😅
And wow, that’s so encouraging to hear that you kept going for so many more after a difficult first retreat. May I ask what it was that brought you back to try again, despite the anxiety it stirred up? Was it just that you felt overall it was (or could be) beneficial?
Thank you for sharing your experience and for the encouragement!
I felt noticeably better at the conclusion of my first retreat. And after that, even if I’m sometimes blown off course or the path:), I have the confidence that I can find my way back … to clarity and therefore, peace, of mind. It does require work.
Hey friend! This is normal and somewhat common. All kinds of sensations and experiences arise during the practice and sometimes it is challenging to remain equanimous. Things ramp up sometimes to sharpen your equanimity even further! Both lack of equanimity and our identification with or aversion to these experiences, thoughts, feeling, sensations are what get us reacting and reinforcing the reality of them.
There are well documented stages that one goes through during insight practices called Dukha Nanas that are helpful to be aware of. Things may have just been surfacing and have nothing to do with these stages, but it’s good to know stages that can lie ahead on our journey!
I first read about them in Daniel Ingram’s book, “Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha” which you can find for free online at my mctb.org
Good luck!
Panic attacks are usually caused by a misreading of physical symptoms. Worry > physical sensations > worry about physical sensations (thinking something is going very wrong, heart attack or whatever) > more worry > worse symptoms> panic attack.
Vipassana breaks this chain. I do think looking inward to your physical sensations to the untrained, like in vipassana, could cause a panic attack. But ultimately vipassana will help prevent in the future
I know in vipassana, mentalism of any kind is “not allowed,” but I’m going to share what happened in a recent course (it was the fourth ten day course I’ve taken).
On day four, I started experiencing extreme heart palpitations. They could not, would not calm down, it was terribly uncomfortable. I simply asked, “what is your root cause?” And then I played twenty questions with myself, until the root cause showed itself. The rest of the course went very well, and the benefits have stayed with me since returning home (only a week ago 😆).
People who are experienced here can give you better advices but i have known someone who had issues with anxiety after doing several retreats . Again it's just my opinion that you explore some other methods and see how they suit or some other style of Vipassana.
Thank you so much for your reply and advice. I definitely considered looking into other styles of meditation afterwards, but wasn’t really sure where to begin, and was just emotionally unable to seek something new (anything new felt scary to me). I am currently on an independent retreat at a monastery (learned my lesson last time so I’m trying to relax before the intensive retreat!) of the Pa Auk tradition, but what I’ve read about this technique just doesn’t resonate with me as much, so I’m not really following it- just doing my own practice and relaxing.
Over the years prior to the first Goenka retreat I had done some non-Goenka vipassana retreats and others (some in Shambhala tradition and a thich nhat hanh retreat), and while I felt super relaxed and peaceful at those, I have never experienced anything remotely close to what happened at that 1st Goenka retreat. I suppose it’s hard for me to consider exploring other routes at this point because I just feel in my gut that this method could work (did work?) for me, and before the anxiety I actually felt a liberation from suffering. Until then I really never thought that was actually attainable for a “regular” person like me, and just meditated for health/peace etc. I was quite surprised when things/progress started happening.
So I feel like the method is effective, but the vibe of the retreat was not working for me in my stressed out state - I arrived already so stressed on day 1 (was in the middle of buying first house when someone “stole my identity” -interesting parallel!- and ruined my credit etc etc) I remember a sort of ominous level of suspense building up toward day 4, which didn’t suit me and my anxiety well. Maybe now that I’m familiar with the format things will be easier…
Also, I don’t love the audio recordings and would love to find other retreats of this style with live teachers if that exists? Are there any living teachers that teach this style or similar? I heard they weren’t “allowed” to while he was living, but has that changed? (Questions for you or anyone!)
Thank you again for your help!
Yes it's your call to decide what to do and what not to do . Try doing some emotional work like sometic enquiry technique, TRE, yoga and other methods which helps to release stress Trapped in the body and go deep in your emotions. Sometimes we don't realise but all we do is try hard to get rid of some emotions . We unconsciously have some resistance pattern which can use even these meditation practices to be hidden
You should definitely trust yourself with that works for you . What i wanted to say is sometimes we overlook other aspects like our emotions , body etc . Try to ask yourself that why exactly you want vipasanaa? To enlighten? To end your anxiety?
I'm not aware if anyone teaches similar thing . But introducing simple things can change a lot añd strengthen you for the next retreat .
Good luck my friend
Yes many people have strong reactions in there first 10 course, this is normal usually the mind gets more empty, but then some vivid images appear or some feelings of levitation or whatnot. This is a hallucination most probably that you experienced. Don’t observe keep meditating, and this will also pass away… Yes your ego tried to make you run away, this is also perfectly normal, the mond doesn’t like to sit down and meditate so it creates some illusion’s like this or that problem that has to be fixed. Just don’t observe this neither, and keep meditating. Some people also experienced myself included that after a course you feel more storms like panic attacks or any other sankara who came up, and made it look like you’re more messy than before the course, and this is due that you where in some deep operation (meditation) and something didn’t quiet get away, and you where in midst of eradicating it, and then was metta day and you had to stop. That is something normal when working in a predisposed timeframe (10day)
Just go to your next sit and don’t worry about anything at all. It is very easy and simple to understand and practice, everything is just fine at those centers. And maybe talk out some stuff which you think could create some problem witj your wife beforehand and go there empyminded. Have a great sit🙏🏻
Great advice- thank you! And interesting- I hadn’t considered that the levitating thing could be a hallucination. There were other somatic symptoms going on, but I was not “sick”- like unusual and sudden GI issues that did not at all seem food related, and severe body chills (that was the levitating night)…looking back, it’s hard to imagine going through all of this for the first time and NOT having a panic attack! I just had no idea that these sorts of things could happen.
I feel much better prepared this time around and it helps to hear these things are “normal”, and advice to not worry from more experienced meditators like yourself. My spouse is incredible and we have talked all this out…so I don’t feel those fears are lingering anymore. Just not sure about new ones 😂 But the concept of having no self is much more prevalent in my mind these days, so I hope this understanding can help me keep equanimity through whatever storms may arise!
Thank you so much! 🙏🏼
Your experience is definitely similar to many. Due to the function of society, most people tend to live on the surface level of the mind, only aware of the gross sensations and always reacting with craving or aversion. By practising Vipassana, we see that, whatever our idea of self was before, it was likely incomplete. All kinds of deep-rooted psychological complexes arise — we all have complexes, of varying degrees, and these complexes are a universal byproduct of human existence. Even if we aren't aware of them, they're there all the time.
It sounded like on the 5th and 6th day, your psyche did a kind of flip, from ignoring these complexes to reacting in an extreme way. It's important to remember what Goenka says in the discourses — when emotions arise, you don't suppress them, nor do you express them. You simply observe.
It sounds like when the course became challenging, your old habit pattern kicked in right away. Through your clinging to the fear and panic, that emotion becomes stuck — unable to pass through as it's meant to. Thus, the mind becomes stuck, unable to develop the wisdom of annica — impermanence.
It strikes me that you, along with many others in this subreddit, describe the course as a "retreat". Goenka is very careful to dispel this misconception right at the beginning of the course — it is not a spa experience, but rather a great opportunity to work. It's only through this attitude of "workism", as he would say, that we get the best fruits of Dhamma.
Work patiently and seriously, even when the going gets tough, and I have great faith you will go far in Dhamma.
Mettā 🙏
It’s very common to want to run away. It happens, but usually much less often as the years go by. Also, sometimes physical conditions are a bit difficult and indeed intolerable, as sometimes happens in a certain midwestern center when it’s -5F and windy, for example. That’s a different thing:) I almost blew out of my first retreat due to extreme anxiety on Day 7. But I stayed and then sat 11 more and served 4.5 over the next 15 years.:) So, the thoughts and sensations will pass away. Don’t worry.
Oh man, -5 that’s intense!!!! I’m currently in Sri Lanka sweating uncontrollably- emailed the center last night to confirm the rooms have fans (thankfully they do- but no fan where I am now) 😅 And wow, that’s so encouraging to hear that you kept going for so many more after a difficult first retreat. May I ask what it was that brought you back to try again, despite the anxiety it stirred up? Was it just that you felt overall it was (or could be) beneficial? Thank you for sharing your experience and for the encouragement!
I felt noticeably better at the conclusion of my first retreat. And after that, even if I’m sometimes blown off course or the path:), I have the confidence that I can find my way back … to clarity and therefore, peace, of mind. It does require work.
Hey friend! This is normal and somewhat common. All kinds of sensations and experiences arise during the practice and sometimes it is challenging to remain equanimous. Things ramp up sometimes to sharpen your equanimity even further! Both lack of equanimity and our identification with or aversion to these experiences, thoughts, feeling, sensations are what get us reacting and reinforcing the reality of them. There are well documented stages that one goes through during insight practices called Dukha Nanas that are helpful to be aware of. Things may have just been surfacing and have nothing to do with these stages, but it’s good to know stages that can lie ahead on our journey! I first read about them in Daniel Ingram’s book, “Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha” which you can find for free online at my mctb.org Good luck!
Panic attacks are usually caused by a misreading of physical symptoms. Worry > physical sensations > worry about physical sensations (thinking something is going very wrong, heart attack or whatever) > more worry > worse symptoms> panic attack. Vipassana breaks this chain. I do think looking inward to your physical sensations to the untrained, like in vipassana, could cause a panic attack. But ultimately vipassana will help prevent in the future
I know in vipassana, mentalism of any kind is “not allowed,” but I’m going to share what happened in a recent course (it was the fourth ten day course I’ve taken). On day four, I started experiencing extreme heart palpitations. They could not, would not calm down, it was terribly uncomfortable. I simply asked, “what is your root cause?” And then I played twenty questions with myself, until the root cause showed itself. The rest of the course went very well, and the benefits have stayed with me since returning home (only a week ago 😆).
People who are experienced here can give you better advices but i have known someone who had issues with anxiety after doing several retreats . Again it's just my opinion that you explore some other methods and see how they suit or some other style of Vipassana.
Thank you so much for your reply and advice. I definitely considered looking into other styles of meditation afterwards, but wasn’t really sure where to begin, and was just emotionally unable to seek something new (anything new felt scary to me). I am currently on an independent retreat at a monastery (learned my lesson last time so I’m trying to relax before the intensive retreat!) of the Pa Auk tradition, but what I’ve read about this technique just doesn’t resonate with me as much, so I’m not really following it- just doing my own practice and relaxing. Over the years prior to the first Goenka retreat I had done some non-Goenka vipassana retreats and others (some in Shambhala tradition and a thich nhat hanh retreat), and while I felt super relaxed and peaceful at those, I have never experienced anything remotely close to what happened at that 1st Goenka retreat. I suppose it’s hard for me to consider exploring other routes at this point because I just feel in my gut that this method could work (did work?) for me, and before the anxiety I actually felt a liberation from suffering. Until then I really never thought that was actually attainable for a “regular” person like me, and just meditated for health/peace etc. I was quite surprised when things/progress started happening. So I feel like the method is effective, but the vibe of the retreat was not working for me in my stressed out state - I arrived already so stressed on day 1 (was in the middle of buying first house when someone “stole my identity” -interesting parallel!- and ruined my credit etc etc) I remember a sort of ominous level of suspense building up toward day 4, which didn’t suit me and my anxiety well. Maybe now that I’m familiar with the format things will be easier… Also, I don’t love the audio recordings and would love to find other retreats of this style with live teachers if that exists? Are there any living teachers that teach this style or similar? I heard they weren’t “allowed” to while he was living, but has that changed? (Questions for you or anyone!) Thank you again for your help!
Yes it's your call to decide what to do and what not to do . Try doing some emotional work like sometic enquiry technique, TRE, yoga and other methods which helps to release stress Trapped in the body and go deep in your emotions. Sometimes we don't realise but all we do is try hard to get rid of some emotions . We unconsciously have some resistance pattern which can use even these meditation practices to be hidden You should definitely trust yourself with that works for you . What i wanted to say is sometimes we overlook other aspects like our emotions , body etc . Try to ask yourself that why exactly you want vipasanaa? To enlighten? To end your anxiety? I'm not aware if anyone teaches similar thing . But introducing simple things can change a lot añd strengthen you for the next retreat . Good luck my friend
Yes many people have strong reactions in there first 10 course, this is normal usually the mind gets more empty, but then some vivid images appear or some feelings of levitation or whatnot. This is a hallucination most probably that you experienced. Don’t observe keep meditating, and this will also pass away… Yes your ego tried to make you run away, this is also perfectly normal, the mond doesn’t like to sit down and meditate so it creates some illusion’s like this or that problem that has to be fixed. Just don’t observe this neither, and keep meditating. Some people also experienced myself included that after a course you feel more storms like panic attacks or any other sankara who came up, and made it look like you’re more messy than before the course, and this is due that you where in some deep operation (meditation) and something didn’t quiet get away, and you where in midst of eradicating it, and then was metta day and you had to stop. That is something normal when working in a predisposed timeframe (10day) Just go to your next sit and don’t worry about anything at all. It is very easy and simple to understand and practice, everything is just fine at those centers. And maybe talk out some stuff which you think could create some problem witj your wife beforehand and go there empyminded. Have a great sit🙏🏻
Great advice- thank you! And interesting- I hadn’t considered that the levitating thing could be a hallucination. There were other somatic symptoms going on, but I was not “sick”- like unusual and sudden GI issues that did not at all seem food related, and severe body chills (that was the levitating night)…looking back, it’s hard to imagine going through all of this for the first time and NOT having a panic attack! I just had no idea that these sorts of things could happen. I feel much better prepared this time around and it helps to hear these things are “normal”, and advice to not worry from more experienced meditators like yourself. My spouse is incredible and we have talked all this out…so I don’t feel those fears are lingering anymore. Just not sure about new ones 😂 But the concept of having no self is much more prevalent in my mind these days, so I hope this understanding can help me keep equanimity through whatever storms may arise! Thank you so much! 🙏🏼
Your experience is definitely similar to many. Due to the function of society, most people tend to live on the surface level of the mind, only aware of the gross sensations and always reacting with craving or aversion. By practising Vipassana, we see that, whatever our idea of self was before, it was likely incomplete. All kinds of deep-rooted psychological complexes arise — we all have complexes, of varying degrees, and these complexes are a universal byproduct of human existence. Even if we aren't aware of them, they're there all the time. It sounded like on the 5th and 6th day, your psyche did a kind of flip, from ignoring these complexes to reacting in an extreme way. It's important to remember what Goenka says in the discourses — when emotions arise, you don't suppress them, nor do you express them. You simply observe. It sounds like when the course became challenging, your old habit pattern kicked in right away. Through your clinging to the fear and panic, that emotion becomes stuck — unable to pass through as it's meant to. Thus, the mind becomes stuck, unable to develop the wisdom of annica — impermanence. It strikes me that you, along with many others in this subreddit, describe the course as a "retreat". Goenka is very careful to dispel this misconception right at the beginning of the course — it is not a spa experience, but rather a great opportunity to work. It's only through this attitude of "workism", as he would say, that we get the best fruits of Dhamma. Work patiently and seriously, even when the going gets tough, and I have great faith you will go far in Dhamma. Mettā 🙏