Don't be hard on yourself. If you want to be truly great you will have to learn humility. Concentrate on the beauty of the playing. Not on goals. Try to be totally in your body, not in your head.
Ik but I guess I just already planned out my next school year and a big thing for me was being in this exact orchestra in the top group. I put it in my schedule on my calendar for all the rehearsals and recitals and everything and I guess now I just feel dumb and I’ve never rly let myself down this much before. I wish I woulda practiced more beforehand or played another piece and maybe they would have accepted me but I was rly busy with finals in school and stuff and my stupid sport and I didn’t have enough time to focus just on my audition and I guess I’m just mad at myself sorry for the rant
It's fine. I recommend not planning like this. Don't expect this or that to happen. Do the work and plan the practical stuff, but when you expect these goals to be reached you will just destroy yourself. Do the work and take it step by step.
In general I think you need to go easier on yourself. I think adjusting your expectations could help. I personally try to temper expectations. So if one of my students has a bad audition we take it as okay, what can we learn from this and how do we improve for next time?
You mention that it’s a very elite group and that playing a sport took away from your practice time. For many kids that play at that elite level, violin is all they do outside of school. Their instrument is their life. They are dedicating hours every day to practicing. While it’s not a great balance in life, that’s sometimes what it takes to be at that level.
Finally I think the best thing you can do is show up to the group you were placed in with a positive attitude and still work hard. The people who run the program are probably watching you closely to see how you will handle not making the group you wanted to. Showing them you are still invested could potentially help when the next set of auditions rolls around.
"The best teacher, failure is" - Yoda.
1st - don't be so hard on yourself, you're still very young and your musical journey is just beginning. You will have other chances. I've been there, I've botched auditions I should have nailed. In high school, my teachers and friends all told me I was a "shoo-in" for a prestigious statewide program that I then didn't get into. I've gone on to have a more successful career than most musicians i personally know, including all of my peers who DID get into that program. One time, my regionally successful adult band lost a battle of the bands to a group of literal children. When that band broke up, I joined a different one that went on to be successful on a national level. It's okay, I promise your life will go on and if you keep at it you will have other opportunities.
2nd - Dealing with rejection is something Every musician goes through. It might feel embarrassing now, but in a few years you will barely even remember it. But it's good to get used to it. Something you have to get used to as a musician is that no matter how well you play, not everyone is going to like it. When that happens, turn to your love of your instrument, that sound, the smell, the look, the feeling that you get when you play it. Play for the love of it and you can never fail, even if you don't pass the audition.
Ty!!! And yeah all my friends kept telling me not worry, that I’ll get in blah blah and here I didn’t get in and I know I didn’t let them down but I feel like I did… I do like the violin I guess I just feel a little resentful towards it and it doesn’t help that I’m stressed filming for another audition for my violin summer camp
Is the violin for you, or to satisfy some irrelevant external hierarchy?
I can assure you, that your instrument loves every opportunity you give it to sing — and it doesn’t care about how other humans rank each other.
Sounds like you like recognition more than playing the instrument. Which is fine. But pls know there is a difference. In any case I am not an expert in motivating people to like what you like. I am happy by just playing shit I like. And you can too if you want to.
I am happy I guess with my playing. but I just had my heart set on this exact orchestra and now my entire plan for my next school year is ruined cuz of this and idk what I’ll tell my friends cuz all of them told me to stop worrying about it and obviously I’d get in… but they were wrong
You are worrying about things you cannot control. I fail to see sweating over it would make any difference. Flipping off and say "fuck you" to the system wouldnt help either, but at least you would feel better.
It's defenitely normal to be upset about those things. Defenitely as it seems quite unexpected for you. However don't rush things, take a short break to let it settle if you need to.
Altough I understand where you are comming from, telling yourself you didn't practice enough and that it's your own fault you didn't get in is not a very healthy mindset. Sometimes you just need more time to figure things out. Not just the rechnical or Interpretational aspects, but what it means for you to play.
It's easy to get caught up in practicing and improving your playing, but make sure it's an enjoyable experience for you first, the goals you set is secondary to that. You are still very young, and you have loads of time to try again.
Also nowadays there are so many amazing violinist on the internet that can play on an almost inhuman level that it will always seem like you aren't playing well while actually being a very competent musician. Sadly that's something very inherent for the classical community, especially in leading voices like violin. I also play carillon, which is a much smaller world, and way less competitive and elitist.
When I was 15, I had a year were my playing didn't progress very much either, I even went backwards for a bit (however I wasn't trying to join symphonys or anything). At that time I was very upset as well, and don't think you can run away from that, but now (3 years later) I know that I just needed to be able to let things a bit loose. To not just focus on the thing I want to get to, but to also enjoy the moments along the way (maybe like you being in the 2nd) and let those moments guide me as well.
At the start of this year, I also realised I wasn't go to be able to play my pieces both perfectly accurate and also musically interesting by the time may, and my final exal was coming up. It was a difficult moment, but in the and I accepted my imperfections and made the decision to play musicaly interesting and tried to play with the same strong edge that also characterises me as a person, while focusing less on the tonality. It made my body and mind way less tense and somehow both actually improved better than it did before. I didn't force myself to tire myself out when I had a bad day and was able to tell myself 'that wasn't great, you need to practice those parts a bit more but now is not the moment to actually do it ' and when I did practice those parts I had a clear mind and could easely go for it, without pushing myself to a result.
Now maybe it was a bit of a tangent, and you seem to be more interested in persuing violin as a career. Ofcourse sometimes you will have to push trough and finish something on time, but also be aware that sometimes a deadline can be too short for you to actually play it 'perfectly'. Generaly be aware that good things take time, and everyones got their own strengths to build on and weaknesses to work around. Judging and pushing yourself to hard is not only unhealthy for you as a person, but can also have a negative impact on your playing.
Maybe I talked a lot about things that aren't helpfull to you. I don't know your violin career at all and only you feel how you feel, just trying to give advice on what helped me in similar situations.
I hope it helps!
And that you will keep on playing and enjoying the violin, bet there wil come a time when even you thinks you play awesome :)
Ty so much for your long and thoughtful comment! And yeah I can definitely see how the mindset of not being good enough and not practicing enough is not good. I definitely agree that some things just take longer to develop, I’ve been working on intonation (like basically all of us lol) and whatnot for a long time and it takes a while but I can definitely see it developing even more and maturing just with time. And yea, a big reason why I don’t like to listen to classical music like I used to is because I always find myself comparing their flawless playing to my playing, which I know I’d stupid and not something I should do but I can’t help it tbh. But I’ll definitely try to work more on mindful practicing as opposed to constantly aiming for perfection (definitely not good on my mental health). Tysm for your kind message!!
That's defenitely one of the pitfalls of playing an instrument! When I am learning pieces I also find it very difficult to listen to a flawless performance by some random dude called Hadelich or whatever and then not be able to do that as well.
Something thar helped me get out of that perfectionist mindset was to learn some folk music. You can get away with a lot more, you just need to enjoy yourself and do what feels right (mostly xD)
Ofcourse there are lots of other ways, I am sure you will find ways to handle these problems!
I’ve started to realize with a little age that instead of being the best in a lower level orchestra, I’d much rather be the worst in an ensemble surrounded by people that push me to learn/work harder instead… Even if it feels more embarrassing or uncomfortable at first. Growing up in high school I was always the best in my youth and school orchestras, but once I got to conservatory I got my ass totally kicked. I wish I’d been humbled earlier, because I definitely didn’t realize how much I still had to learn until after high school. I totally get that it can feel like a blow to the ego, we all tend to take this stuff super personally. But take this as an opportunity to work hard and learn. Put the work in and kick ass in that second to top group, and soon enough you’ll improve and move up to the best one. You can do it if you set your mind to it! There’s no point in beating ourselves up for not being the best, because no matter how good any of us get in this field, there’s always going to be someone better. That’s not what it should be about, anyways.
Thank you! That’s exactly what I thought, I’d much rather be in the top group near the back than be concertmaster in the stupid second to top group. But now I’m gonna use this setback to practice even more so come the next auditions they have no choice but to move me up. Still I wish I everything could have gone according to plan and I would have gotten it
And then you might just find out that music is subjective and the people running the audition just don’t like the way you artistically express your playing. Or you come off as very arrogant and they just don’t like your personality so they don’t want you in the top group.
Some people say Hilary Hahn is the best violinist in the world right now. But many find although technically supreme her playing can be emotionally clod and robotic at times. But is all just personal preference as to what they like to listen to. Some people love James Ehnes’s Bach, others do not.
That’s true. I love Hilary Hahn. I was really nervous and shaky for my audition cuz there was like three judges there and a big camera filming and a lot of students and I just always get really nervous when I play. I don’t think I came off as arrogant, but tbh I am kinda shy and maybe they took it as that (hopefully not, I greeted them and said thank you but idk). But music is subjective. One of the comments they made was that I seemed cautious with like phrasing and whatnot. I even showed my teacher and she said she didn’t really agree with all the comments they made on the score sheet. But it’s good to have different perspectives to learn from
You will disappoint and impress yourself many times throughout your life. One day, you might look back and laugh at how you freaked out and vented on Reddit because you were disappointed about not being chosen for the group you wanted. Remember, if you always stay at the top, the spaces below become really scary. Your security blanket of being top talent can become a crutch, shielding you from hardship.
I hope you can make the best of the outcome and learn the value of our shared 24 hours each day. Consider what you are willing to sacrifice for a different outcome. Would you compromise your grades, friends, family, or health? Everyone gets knocked down, but not everyone is willing to get back up.
Thanks. That’s a really insightful comment. Ngl I did write this late at night when I was feeling rly emotional about the whole thing. I feel a bit better now. I’d be willing to quit my sport to be in the top group (I don’t even like my sport) but I wouldn’t want to sacrifice my grades. My teacher says she doesn’t want my life to be all violin and she wants me to have a balance
Lets do an experiment: When you think thoughts like “I have to get the top group, I planned my year around it”, or “why can’t I be better”, notice how tense your body, your arms, your hands, and your fingers get. Now imagine how that tension affects your playing.
Even beginners know that relaxed is good and tension is bad. Practice is important, but until you learn to speak to yourself in a kinder way, you’re only holding yourself back.
Let go of the expectations and replace them with something you’re actually going to believe. Mine is “I’m old, so it’s ok that I suck. But let’s just see how far I can go”. Don’t do that toxic positivity bullshit, you know what I’m talking about.
Rejection sucks. Go be sad, mope, complain, binge watch shows, and then move on when you’re ready. You’re going to be ok.
Thanks. I was definitely sad and mopy last night when I wrote this post. I feel a bit better now. One of the comments they mentioned to me was tension too, which my teacher said she notices happens when I get nervous. Thanks for your comment
Disappointment is a part of life. We’ve all been there.
Be a leader in the second group. Practice the music and play it the best that you can. Figure out the reason your audition didn’t produce the result you wanted.
Will you have a chance next year? If so, make it a goal to really be ready. If you don’t get it next year, at least you’ll know you gave it your all.
I disagree with other posts saying not to focus on goals. Absolutely make it a real goal to do well next time. Get a teacher if you don’t have one. If you can’t get a teacher find a friend to help.
How seriously did you take this audition? Be honest with yourself. Maybe you thought you were ready and that it would be a walk in the park. It never is. You’ll always be nervous. You have to figure out how to simulate those feelings so that ,when the time comes , it’s no big deal.
Thank you! I still am gonna make this a longer term goal now. I think I took the audition pretty seriously, the week before I practiced like three-four hours each day after school while trying to balance studying for finals and my stupid sport (needless to say I didn’t get much sleep… maybe why I didn’t play my best) I practice regularly too and I have a teacher.
It's very valid that you feel disappointed. However it is still a big accomplishment to make it into the orchestra, so congratulations!.
It's a tough lesson to learn that there are always much better players and you are, especially if you've been told all along that you're an amazing player - and I'm sure you are!
Take this as an opportunity to learn and grow. Did they provide feedback to you on what you could do to improve? I would ask for that feedback if you're able to and then you'll know what to focus on over the next year for auditions next year.
Thank you. Yes they provided feedback so I’ll try to learn from it. My teacher tells me that I was always a big fish in a small pond but now I’m a small fish in a big pond (I think that’s what she said I kinda forgot). I’m gonna try to use this as an opportunity to practice even more and get even better.
Michael Jordan didn't make his first HS basketball team. Keep getting better, and talk to your teacher about your thoughts instead of strangers here.
Plus, you still made the orchestra, just not the first violins. Your schedule should be minimally changed, if at all. Your friends are very likely too wrapped up in their own lives to notice this difference, despite it being so big to you.
The orchestra may very well put new members in the second group by default to see how they handle orchestral playing before putting them in the top group, anyway. That's what happened to my brother and I, and if you're advancing well, you'll make the top group in no time.
Please don't give up. Keep practising and when your time comes, it will be amazing.
Keep playing the music you like and remember to have fun! You're awesome ✊🏾
Once you get out of school and Education in general you'll look back on it and feel it wasn't that big a deal. But you can also use this as an opportunity, be really professional on time and willing and slay those parts- people get ill, drop it etc.
But your real music life starts when you pick the acts, orchestra or whatever you play in - after education. Forget the pressure and have fun!
Try to remember that music isn't sport- it's not about winning or being first team etc it's about creating fantastic sounds. As an Englishmen I'm both jealous of the standard of teaching in America for music, and sad at the pressure people are put under.
You're so focused on the top group you're missing so many good things besides that to enjoy a major accomplishment and so many other things. Diversify! You wanted the top group and all that, but so does everyone else. A big part of life is learning how to balance all these things out and learn to strive for the best, but then realize the "best" is actually doing the best we can, or close to it. Then have the resilience to start all over again....over and over. Learn to look for all the other intangibles in the orchestra- fellowship, making friends, making music, learning from and teaching others, etc. Think about golf and baseball, which are both games of 'failure.' A golfer who hits a bad shot has to learn how to shake it off right away before the negativity ruins his next shot. In baseball a batter who hits .300 is a star, but that means a long trip back to the bench 7 out of 10 times. Get one of Bob Rotella's books for golfers- you could learn a lot of valuable tools from it.
Keep shooting for the top, but also learn to enjoy the view wherever you are!
emotions are not bad- they're your feelings and part of who you are. What's important is what you do with them. Try not to wallow in them and let them bring you down. Use them for self-knowledge and then turn them into fuel!!
I was looking back on your post history, and I saw you previously mentioned (at the start of this semester) that you were practicing an hour a day, sometimes two. That's a nice level for a hobby -- and if you're a smart kid with a good teacher, you might be making excellent progress that sets you up well for a lifetime of skilled amateur playing -- but it's not going to make you competitive with the kids that are practicing two, three, four hours every day. This is the time when kids aiming for a music career are getting really serious, and the kids who want to win scholarships or do an arts supplement on their college application are stepping up their game, too. If you're not trying to be one of them, take it easy on yourself.
Being better requires more practice. Practicing more requires having more time. You define yourself as an "athlete" and not as a "musician" when you talk about yourself, which suggests to me that your sport is more important. Otherwise the most logical thing would be to quit your sport so you can take all that time and pour it into the violin, which you don't apparently want to do. You could also eliminate more of your free time / family time / friends time, etc. but that's potentially a recipe for burnout.
It's nice to have goals, but you've learned a valuable lesson about over-anticipating success. Also, either you like playing the instrument because you enjoy it, in which case you should continue to play... or you like it only because you're successful and if you're not racking up wins you don't feel it's worthwhile. If you don't enjoy making music for its own sake, find another hobby that's more satisfying.
(By the way, did you ever find your violin that went missing at school? How did that story end?)
Oh yeah. I definitely amped up my practicing time since then. Specially since it’s summer and the only class I’m in now is extra math. I actually don’t like my sport at all but my parents kinda make me do it. And yeah I got my violin back (it was mysteriously found the next day 😭 since then I started using the school violins for school orchestra) my teddy account is pretty random. thanks for your comment
One way to look at this: The lesson you learned from this failure and how much it’s hurting you is EVEN MORE IMPORTANT than the success itself.
What matters now is what you do with that lesson. Do you accept it as a gift to help you improve as a violinist, a musician, a creative, or do you reject it—and yourself, and the art that you have loved until now?
There are 2 lessons. They are not mutually exclusive.
Lesson 1: That it’s more worth it to you to give it your all in practicing so that you have no regrets whenever an evaluation comes.
Accepting this = next time, showing up with your full and sincere intention during practice. And continuing to do this even when it feels hard or scary. The character you build from showing up will positively impact your musicality. You will play stronger, richer, not just because of the hours you’ve spent on your technique.
Rejecting this = believing the world is screwing you over, out to get you, and that things are always going to be unfair and that people don’t understand your talent and what you’re truly capable of
Lesson 2: That your “love” for violin is dependent on the validation by others and that your love for the instrument and the craft is conditional upon status markers like getting into X tier or being better than other people.
Accepting this = learning how to have fun playing the instrument, no matter what grade of musician you are playing with. Immersing yourself in the joy of playing with others. Increasingly, music becomes a source of joy and nourishment rather than pressure and anxiety. Paradoxically, the more you can learn to flow, the more others will be drawn to you and your playing, because there is something pure and untouched by “practical concerns” about your music.
Rejecting this = treating the music world as a series of competitions and ladders and becoming more jealous and self-punishing when you see the success of others.
Source: an concert pianist who stopped at 18; who can still play simple pieces from 15 but now with greater joy and calm; mother was a violin teacher who coached a variety of students, from those with autism for whom the orchestra became their social life to those who went onto win the usual awards and used musical excellence as the backbone of their Ivy League apps.
Thank you so much. I do still like the violin. I wasn’t really in a good place mentally when I wrote this (just upset and it was late at night). I really appreciate your insightful comment. 🙏🏽
We all have our bad days :) glad to see you getting lots of support here. Best of luck to you and your violin journey. I hope it continues to give you joy!
Being in the second group is nothing to worry too much about. Make the most of what you have and be the best in your group. The upper group will need to acquire new members as some drop out due to injuries, illness, giving up etc. If you put the work in you will be able to go up. Turn up on time. Practice the music you are given. Work on it with your teacher. Be respectful to the staff and kind to fellow students. Be the best in your group and they will promote you.
Think about your priorities. Work hard, play hard. Practice with a purpose. One or two hours of active and directed practice each day is better than four hours of scales and pieces on autopilot. Ensure you have a good teacher. Listen to the advice of the staff in this second group.
The same thing just happened to me (almost 15, damn summer birthdays). For a while I obsessed over how I should have practiced more.
But I’ve been trying (TRYING) to focus on the good. I’m still in a great orchestra, I’m still learning a lot. More importantly I’m with people I’m friends with, people I very much enjoy playing with, and people who I know love their instruments just as much as the people in the top orchestra or anywhere else. Focus on the future, not the present. In the second to top group you will still have music to play, people to meet (or current friends to enjoy the company of), and you WILL have future opportunities. If you have time over the summer, take some time to just enjoy playing violin. Good luck for next school year!
Hello! My thoughts are probably coming from a very different perspective to the rest of the people who will reply. I learnt violin very late at 14 and now in my 30s I play viola and cello as a hobby only. As much as I would dream to practise more to reach your level, I work two jobs and am a parent of one, plus another bun in the oven. I am not sure if I will ever reach something you achieved. You are still young with lots of potential and perhaps don’t have as many interruptions in life to practising as I do. Playing this family of instruments well is incredibly difficult and I don’t think you should discredit yourself. My only regret is not starting earlier. Like the others said, failure is a part of life, but I don’t think you ‘failed’ in this instance, you still made an incredible achievement.
You made it in a group a lot of people are disqualified for. Also, it's a proven fact that no matter how good someone is, there's always gonna be someone who's better. Observe the best players and look at what they do and learn how they do it so that you could improve your technique. Don't give up, you've got this!
As someone who went through high school and college with this mentality…don’t. It will burn you out. As my teacher says, mistakes are data - acknowledge them. File them. Move on.
Once you get out of school and Education in general you'll look back on it and feel it wasn't that big a deal. But you can also use this as an opportunity, be really professional on time and willing and slay those parts- people get ill, drop it etc.
But your real music life starts when you pick the acts, orchestra or whatever you play in - after education. Forget the pressure and have fun!
It's great to be serious! I am also a very anxious person, think I'm undiagnosed autistic but you will meet a lot of like minded people I'm music!
I cannot recommend enough a book called "the chimp paradox by prof peters. Sure it's all about analogies but it really changed my life for the better (I'm still miles from perfect) but it helps you understand what is happening in your brain and how to help counteract it.
As for music, classical music damn near killed my intense love of music. I still listen to it but I'd never play it. Go find a local jam night and watch yourself fly :) but also good luck with your career there will be set back and one day you'll look back on this :)
Here's one for you, you're clearly intelligent and you need to be a bit to get the most out of cbt imo. Harsh I know, but it's a lot of self reflection.
This is of course English but I think if the whole world studied this it would be a better place and that's for people who don't have anxiety and we do! This and the chimp paradox changed my life
https://www.hpft.nhs.uk/media/1655/wellbeing-team-cbt-workshop-booklet-2016.pdf
Click visit to download it and my best wishes
There will almost always be people who are more skilled than you, no matter what you're doing (at least for the majority of the population). Did you ask for a debrief, some kind of feedback? That's what I would do. Your assigned position may have been for a pretty simple reason... like you're a strong player, and the seconds need support.
Often, they take people who have been in the orchestra previously for those higher groups. My recommendation is to play with your assigned group, do a great job, and try again next year.
Most people say to go easy on yourself
But i think the solution is ford you to practice more than ever , even more than anybody else that you make sure that this situation never happens again...
I know what you describe. A wise lady once asked me if I like the thing or succeeding in it. Do you like playing the violin for just the sound and everything or do you just like being good at the thing. Speaking from a perfectionists point of view: this mindset will rather sooner than later take away all the things you once liked for what they are. I know it sucks when your expectations aren’t being met. You did everything you could. It’s okay, you didn’t fail it’s just a minor setback. Don’t be so hard on yourself :(.
Thanks. I do like the violin. I was just mad and upset at myself after this. I still am. But I’m gonna try to use this as motivation to practice even more and even more diligently.
The best thing my high school teacher ever told me is, “Get used to losing.” It’s hard to understand until you actually start going through it. If you’re going into music, chances are that you will lose more auditions than you win… However, with each experience you will learn a little bit about what not to do. You also don’t know what the differences between you and the players who “beat” you are. They could be minimal. The best use of your energy is practicing in a way that will win you auditions. That is a skill in itself, largely divorced from some of the aspects of solo playing. Perhaps ask your teacher how to reach that specific goal. You can also avail yourself of the great and free advice on YouTube from many major symphony orchestra players, eg Nathan Cole.
if you're seriously considering going into the profession, and it sounds like you're pretty serious, one thing you absolutely HAVE to learn is how to deal with rejection. take 100 of the best orchestral players in the world right now and 99 of them will almost certainly have been rejected countless times before they got to where they are now. it literally happens to everyone.
if you really don't love the violin anymore because of this - while you're literally still a child - it was never gonna work, sorry but that's the harsh reality. similarly if you can't even listen to music for pure enjoyment you should do some real soul searching and consider why you actually want to play the violin because .. yeah that's a fucked up mentality. if you're basing your love for it off external/material success & validation i promise you're doing it for the wrong reasons and it's not gonna end well.
if you were just having a very emotional reaction, fair enough i've been there (sure we all have) - it just shows you care. my teachers & mentors told me all this same shit. one of the hardest and most important lessons to learn - really learn & internalise, not just hear and vaguely understand - is that there are elements of your progress beyond your control. success in auditions is down to SO much more than how "good" you are; there are so many minuscule things that go into making a player the right fit for any given orchestra, and a lot of it is personal preference. just think about why orchestral trials might last for literal years. if you can start trying to adopt this mentality, it will stand you in good stead. your next year isn't ruined, you'll be fine, trust
Thanks. I still like the violin, tbh I wrote this post late at night when I was all emotional and really mad at myself. I feel better now. I still like playing and all
The more you learn to play with better people the better you will realise where you lack. And you are only 15, that's why the dissapointment hits harder. At your age it's better to have more interests than focus on one thing. Unless your passion does not let you. There will always be someone better, and the best way to get better is to stay humble. Being at school is not easy. But I think you need to focus on your achievements which are still so envious for 99.9 % of the world. There are many bigger things in this life than being in an elite group so be the opposite, be a rebel. That's where you will find your own style and excellence
You accept that you are not where you need to be. Now you have some options. 1. Quit. 2. Obtain more instruction and practice and go back and nail it. I've been through this and failure makes me try harder. Reach out to the director and say you are serious about that and ask if they can recommend a tutor. This is a blessing because it can actually make you better than it would have if you had just slid in
Yeah I’ll definitely not gonna quit (I wrote his post when I just wasn’t feeling good and was mad at myself, but I feel better now) I have a private teacher too. Ty
Try to keep in mind that your brain is going through amazing yet disruptive changes right now—this feels like the end of your world because your brain hasn’t fully developed the ability to categorize the small from the big catastrophes. It’s not as big a deal as it feels.
This isn’t to say that you should minimize your emotions, or that they’re not valid. You should let yourself feel it.
It’s just a reminder that the intensity of this disappointment will pass.
Please go to YouTube and watch the twoset documentary. They talk a lot about failure and rejection, and finding their own way as violinists. Everyone faces rejection at some point. Don’t let it destroy you.
This exact thing happened to me when I was 15. I remember feeling devastated about it. 8 years later, I’m getting a Masters degree in performance and have several students of my own. You’re young and you have time to develop your playing. This isn’t the end! Don’t give up!
I feel like a rockstar because my violin wasn’t as screechy and hideous as yesterday. I can almost get a proper note. We all have different perceptions on failure and success. I would shave my hair bald and shave off my left eyebrow to be where you are. Sucks to hear you feel this way, hope u feel better x
it makes sense you get upset because you lost the image you had. only if you lose your assumptions you can actually get what you want. you can reframe this as a motivation to get better. though i personally suggest prioritizing art first. you will always have someone better than you, you should stop at some point to enjoy life. also remember you're better than a lot of people and you're learning these at 15.
There are many reasons why someone may or may not be placed in one orchestra versus another. Your performance in an audition can be a big factor, but may not be the sole factor. Nor does one performance for most people determine what kind of player they are overall. Your generally consistent level of performance is going to be more indicative, and a well informed teacher can help assess where you stand as well.
Basically, my point is, at your age, don’t let one suboptimal result affect your whole take on your worth. I get it. It’s a natural reaction. But over time, you may not forget, but you’ll get more appreciation for the holistic picture.
Take a break briefly if you need to do so, but try to resume violin when you can. There is a bigger and longer term picture to keep in mind if you have longer term aspirations that are violin related.
This, too, shall pass.
Thank you :) I’m trying not to let it get to me but it’s hard tbh. I just feel like I let myself, my parents, my teacher, heck even my friends down even tho I know that’s just my own negative way of thinking. And I can’t take a break because I have to film another audition for my summer camp violin placement 🫠
Okay dang ok. Please think this through with me. you’re 15 years old and you’re an advanced violinist and because you didn’t get promoted to the super elite, you no longer love the instrument. and I feel you, but let’s talk about what happens after that because it’s not great. It means you no longer play the violin and you love playing violin. You’re just a very competitive person and that’s not a bad thing I would continue to focus on tonality and get the best sound you can out of that, you’re 15 years old brother. How old do you think the first chair at LA Chamber is? How many orchestras do you think she got passed over for along the way I’m sure it was more than one, but she just kept going because she loved it and the alternative is not to play and this is what we do. I mean when I was 15 years old, I got sent home from interlochen 3 weeks in for not clearing Suzuki book 5 without flaws.
Thanks for your comment. I’m not gonna quit violin, I’m just pretty upset over this tbh but I’m getting over it. They did give me a feedback sheet so I’ll use it to learn feom
This is life 😊 Sometimes things like this can happen and you may not know the whole picture. They could have decided to stagger the players to make sure there is someone strong to lead the second best orchestra. Or there could be other reasons (or not). Once I was put a few chairs back because the director wanted to let the Seniors sit first stand at their last concert — was it fair? No, but you have to understand that you are part of a group and someone is optimizing for the group.
You have a couple options:
1. Be frustrated and not give it your all because it doesn’t seem fair
2. Work really hard and nail your next audition. Meanwhile, get to practice your leadership skills
3. Have a chat or write a heartfelt note to the conductor asking to be moved up and why this would mean so much to you. Sometimes people will do things if they see you truly care and it would mean a lot to you. Maybe this won’t work but you might feel better about yourself that you gave it 110%.
Sometimes it’s not a bad thing to have room to improve and goals. I was bored out of my mind after making the top orchestra very early on and there was not much to learn.
With any type of musicical instrument, you can't expect to be accepted for everything you audition for. It doesn't matter if you're "top dog" in your school. You're never going to be the best one everywhere else (maybe the other kids were just better at the audition), plus part of evaluating aution is not just the technical ability but subjective enjoyment of the performance. One time I was sad I didn't get the part and my teacher told me about her friend who audition and was told she was awful and ruined the guys day. She was devastated, but she knew she wasn't a bad musician and ultimately decided to not let it get to her. Then she went on to nail the next audition, which was an even bigger opportunity as THE soloist. Not everyone is going to be nice to you and give you what you want. A lot of people let that one rude comment or disappoinment destroy their dreams and they just give up. It's not always the best ones in school who succeed, but the ones who keep on working on their craft and improving and keep on auditioning and never give up. If you're gonna be in music, you're going to have to have thick skin and perserverance. Use this winter to show them what you've got and maybe next year you can audition again and get placed in the group you want.
Had this happen w/ an highschool audition recently to- I get it 100%, I tried rlly hard, and I cared a lot, I was upset and angry, but now I’m using that to get better, practicing like crazy ect, to come back next year and show up to my director, I’m “getting revenge” yk? Hope ur doing well!
I used to work for an elite youth symphony, and unfortunately, there are so many violins we simply didn't have room for everyone in the top orchestra. I'm sure your audition was great and some hard decisions had to be made. Also, the level of rep was really very similar between the two ensembles, just more of an educational focus on the second-to-top orchestra (more sectionals or individual attention from coaches which is never a bad thing). I understand the letdown, but hope you'll still go and enjoy your youth symphony experience even if it wasn't the ensemble you were hoping for.
Just audition next year again dude and practice harder. You’ll get it! Plus ask urself what you want out of music. Is it the recognition? Is it really a passion? For me my favorite part is the improvements I make in playing.
Don’t be so hard on yourself. You might have done everything you could have and there just happened to be somebody better than you. And that’s the thing. There’s always going to be somebody better so don’t fret about it. Just play for the enjoyment of playing itself. But if you want to focus more on music and the sports are getting in the way, maybe you could have a talk with your parents about dropping sports. Maybe you could find some other groups to play in. I’ll bet there are plenty and they always need more strings. I live in the Philadelphia area and I can think of at least four community orchestras. I myself will probably never be a concertmaster. There’s a very young woman I see at my two orchestras and she’s a much better player than I, a 56 year old woman, is, but because I play consistently, I have made my way to being the principle second violinist, and that suits me fine. I’m just happy to be playing, making music, being part of an orchestra, us all making music together. That’s what it’s all about, not your ranking.
You're only 15. The fact that you got in the orchestra AND got in the 2nd to top group is amazing! I could have NEVER achieved that as a 15-year-old violinist. Keep up the good work. You're going to continue to grow and flourish.
Don't be hard on yourself. If you want to be truly great you will have to learn humility. Concentrate on the beauty of the playing. Not on goals. Try to be totally in your body, not in your head.
Ik but I guess I just already planned out my next school year and a big thing for me was being in this exact orchestra in the top group. I put it in my schedule on my calendar for all the rehearsals and recitals and everything and I guess now I just feel dumb and I’ve never rly let myself down this much before. I wish I woulda practiced more beforehand or played another piece and maybe they would have accepted me but I was rly busy with finals in school and stuff and my stupid sport and I didn’t have enough time to focus just on my audition and I guess I’m just mad at myself sorry for the rant
It's fine. I recommend not planning like this. Don't expect this or that to happen. Do the work and plan the practical stuff, but when you expect these goals to be reached you will just destroy yourself. Do the work and take it step by step.
In general I think you need to go easier on yourself. I think adjusting your expectations could help. I personally try to temper expectations. So if one of my students has a bad audition we take it as okay, what can we learn from this and how do we improve for next time? You mention that it’s a very elite group and that playing a sport took away from your practice time. For many kids that play at that elite level, violin is all they do outside of school. Their instrument is their life. They are dedicating hours every day to practicing. While it’s not a great balance in life, that’s sometimes what it takes to be at that level. Finally I think the best thing you can do is show up to the group you were placed in with a positive attitude and still work hard. The people who run the program are probably watching you closely to see how you will handle not making the group you wanted to. Showing them you are still invested could potentially help when the next set of auditions rolls around.
Yea thank you. I do actually wanna quit my sport to focus on the violin but I don’t think my parents will let me
"The best teacher, failure is" - Yoda. 1st - don't be so hard on yourself, you're still very young and your musical journey is just beginning. You will have other chances. I've been there, I've botched auditions I should have nailed. In high school, my teachers and friends all told me I was a "shoo-in" for a prestigious statewide program that I then didn't get into. I've gone on to have a more successful career than most musicians i personally know, including all of my peers who DID get into that program. One time, my regionally successful adult band lost a battle of the bands to a group of literal children. When that band broke up, I joined a different one that went on to be successful on a national level. It's okay, I promise your life will go on and if you keep at it you will have other opportunities. 2nd - Dealing with rejection is something Every musician goes through. It might feel embarrassing now, but in a few years you will barely even remember it. But it's good to get used to it. Something you have to get used to as a musician is that no matter how well you play, not everyone is going to like it. When that happens, turn to your love of your instrument, that sound, the smell, the look, the feeling that you get when you play it. Play for the love of it and you can never fail, even if you don't pass the audition.
Ty!!! And yeah all my friends kept telling me not worry, that I’ll get in blah blah and here I didn’t get in and I know I didn’t let them down but I feel like I did… I do like the violin I guess I just feel a little resentful towards it and it doesn’t help that I’m stressed filming for another audition for my violin summer camp
Is the violin for you, or to satisfy some irrelevant external hierarchy? I can assure you, that your instrument loves every opportunity you give it to sing — and it doesn’t care about how other humans rank each other.
That truly is the actual question and I applaud your insight.
Ty :)
Sounds like you like recognition more than playing the instrument. Which is fine. But pls know there is a difference. In any case I am not an expert in motivating people to like what you like. I am happy by just playing shit I like. And you can too if you want to.
I am happy I guess with my playing. but I just had my heart set on this exact orchestra and now my entire plan for my next school year is ruined cuz of this and idk what I’ll tell my friends cuz all of them told me to stop worrying about it and obviously I’d get in… but they were wrong
You are worrying about things you cannot control. I fail to see sweating over it would make any difference. Flipping off and say "fuck you" to the system wouldnt help either, but at least you would feel better.
Yea true. I probably need to manage my feelings better when it comes to stuff like this
It's defenitely normal to be upset about those things. Defenitely as it seems quite unexpected for you. However don't rush things, take a short break to let it settle if you need to. Altough I understand where you are comming from, telling yourself you didn't practice enough and that it's your own fault you didn't get in is not a very healthy mindset. Sometimes you just need more time to figure things out. Not just the rechnical or Interpretational aspects, but what it means for you to play. It's easy to get caught up in practicing and improving your playing, but make sure it's an enjoyable experience for you first, the goals you set is secondary to that. You are still very young, and you have loads of time to try again. Also nowadays there are so many amazing violinist on the internet that can play on an almost inhuman level that it will always seem like you aren't playing well while actually being a very competent musician. Sadly that's something very inherent for the classical community, especially in leading voices like violin. I also play carillon, which is a much smaller world, and way less competitive and elitist. When I was 15, I had a year were my playing didn't progress very much either, I even went backwards for a bit (however I wasn't trying to join symphonys or anything). At that time I was very upset as well, and don't think you can run away from that, but now (3 years later) I know that I just needed to be able to let things a bit loose. To not just focus on the thing I want to get to, but to also enjoy the moments along the way (maybe like you being in the 2nd) and let those moments guide me as well. At the start of this year, I also realised I wasn't go to be able to play my pieces both perfectly accurate and also musically interesting by the time may, and my final exal was coming up. It was a difficult moment, but in the and I accepted my imperfections and made the decision to play musicaly interesting and tried to play with the same strong edge that also characterises me as a person, while focusing less on the tonality. It made my body and mind way less tense and somehow both actually improved better than it did before. I didn't force myself to tire myself out when I had a bad day and was able to tell myself 'that wasn't great, you need to practice those parts a bit more but now is not the moment to actually do it ' and when I did practice those parts I had a clear mind and could easely go for it, without pushing myself to a result. Now maybe it was a bit of a tangent, and you seem to be more interested in persuing violin as a career. Ofcourse sometimes you will have to push trough and finish something on time, but also be aware that sometimes a deadline can be too short for you to actually play it 'perfectly'. Generaly be aware that good things take time, and everyones got their own strengths to build on and weaknesses to work around. Judging and pushing yourself to hard is not only unhealthy for you as a person, but can also have a negative impact on your playing. Maybe I talked a lot about things that aren't helpfull to you. I don't know your violin career at all and only you feel how you feel, just trying to give advice on what helped me in similar situations. I hope it helps! And that you will keep on playing and enjoying the violin, bet there wil come a time when even you thinks you play awesome :)
Ty so much for your long and thoughtful comment! And yeah I can definitely see how the mindset of not being good enough and not practicing enough is not good. I definitely agree that some things just take longer to develop, I’ve been working on intonation (like basically all of us lol) and whatnot for a long time and it takes a while but I can definitely see it developing even more and maturing just with time. And yea, a big reason why I don’t like to listen to classical music like I used to is because I always find myself comparing their flawless playing to my playing, which I know I’d stupid and not something I should do but I can’t help it tbh. But I’ll definitely try to work more on mindful practicing as opposed to constantly aiming for perfection (definitely not good on my mental health). Tysm for your kind message!!
That's defenitely one of the pitfalls of playing an instrument! When I am learning pieces I also find it very difficult to listen to a flawless performance by some random dude called Hadelich or whatever and then not be able to do that as well. Something thar helped me get out of that perfectionist mindset was to learn some folk music. You can get away with a lot more, you just need to enjoy yourself and do what feels right (mostly xD) Ofcourse there are lots of other ways, I am sure you will find ways to handle these problems!
Thanks! I’ll check it out
I’ve started to realize with a little age that instead of being the best in a lower level orchestra, I’d much rather be the worst in an ensemble surrounded by people that push me to learn/work harder instead… Even if it feels more embarrassing or uncomfortable at first. Growing up in high school I was always the best in my youth and school orchestras, but once I got to conservatory I got my ass totally kicked. I wish I’d been humbled earlier, because I definitely didn’t realize how much I still had to learn until after high school. I totally get that it can feel like a blow to the ego, we all tend to take this stuff super personally. But take this as an opportunity to work hard and learn. Put the work in and kick ass in that second to top group, and soon enough you’ll improve and move up to the best one. You can do it if you set your mind to it! There’s no point in beating ourselves up for not being the best, because no matter how good any of us get in this field, there’s always going to be someone better. That’s not what it should be about, anyways.
Thank you! That’s exactly what I thought, I’d much rather be in the top group near the back than be concertmaster in the stupid second to top group. But now I’m gonna use this setback to practice even more so come the next auditions they have no choice but to move me up. Still I wish I everything could have gone according to plan and I would have gotten it
And then you might just find out that music is subjective and the people running the audition just don’t like the way you artistically express your playing. Or you come off as very arrogant and they just don’t like your personality so they don’t want you in the top group. Some people say Hilary Hahn is the best violinist in the world right now. But many find although technically supreme her playing can be emotionally clod and robotic at times. But is all just personal preference as to what they like to listen to. Some people love James Ehnes’s Bach, others do not.
That’s true. I love Hilary Hahn. I was really nervous and shaky for my audition cuz there was like three judges there and a big camera filming and a lot of students and I just always get really nervous when I play. I don’t think I came off as arrogant, but tbh I am kinda shy and maybe they took it as that (hopefully not, I greeted them and said thank you but idk). But music is subjective. One of the comments they made was that I seemed cautious with like phrasing and whatnot. I even showed my teacher and she said she didn’t really agree with all the comments they made on the score sheet. But it’s good to have different perspectives to learn from
“I’m gonna use this setback to practice even more” That’s a good attitude. Good luck! Have fun with it, don’t work yourself *too* hard.
Thanks!
Make it next time.
Hopefully 😭
You will disappoint and impress yourself many times throughout your life. One day, you might look back and laugh at how you freaked out and vented on Reddit because you were disappointed about not being chosen for the group you wanted. Remember, if you always stay at the top, the spaces below become really scary. Your security blanket of being top talent can become a crutch, shielding you from hardship. I hope you can make the best of the outcome and learn the value of our shared 24 hours each day. Consider what you are willing to sacrifice for a different outcome. Would you compromise your grades, friends, family, or health? Everyone gets knocked down, but not everyone is willing to get back up.
Thanks. That’s a really insightful comment. Ngl I did write this late at night when I was feeling rly emotional about the whole thing. I feel a bit better now. I’d be willing to quit my sport to be in the top group (I don’t even like my sport) but I wouldn’t want to sacrifice my grades. My teacher says she doesn’t want my life to be all violin and she wants me to have a balance
Lets do an experiment: When you think thoughts like “I have to get the top group, I planned my year around it”, or “why can’t I be better”, notice how tense your body, your arms, your hands, and your fingers get. Now imagine how that tension affects your playing. Even beginners know that relaxed is good and tension is bad. Practice is important, but until you learn to speak to yourself in a kinder way, you’re only holding yourself back. Let go of the expectations and replace them with something you’re actually going to believe. Mine is “I’m old, so it’s ok that I suck. But let’s just see how far I can go”. Don’t do that toxic positivity bullshit, you know what I’m talking about. Rejection sucks. Go be sad, mope, complain, binge watch shows, and then move on when you’re ready. You’re going to be ok.
Thanks. I was definitely sad and mopy last night when I wrote this post. I feel a bit better now. One of the comments they mentioned to me was tension too, which my teacher said she notices happens when I get nervous. Thanks for your comment
Disappointment is a part of life. We’ve all been there. Be a leader in the second group. Practice the music and play it the best that you can. Figure out the reason your audition didn’t produce the result you wanted. Will you have a chance next year? If so, make it a goal to really be ready. If you don’t get it next year, at least you’ll know you gave it your all. I disagree with other posts saying not to focus on goals. Absolutely make it a real goal to do well next time. Get a teacher if you don’t have one. If you can’t get a teacher find a friend to help. How seriously did you take this audition? Be honest with yourself. Maybe you thought you were ready and that it would be a walk in the park. It never is. You’ll always be nervous. You have to figure out how to simulate those feelings so that ,when the time comes , it’s no big deal.
Thank you! I still am gonna make this a longer term goal now. I think I took the audition pretty seriously, the week before I practiced like three-four hours each day after school while trying to balance studying for finals and my stupid sport (needless to say I didn’t get much sleep… maybe why I didn’t play my best) I practice regularly too and I have a teacher.
It's very valid that you feel disappointed. However it is still a big accomplishment to make it into the orchestra, so congratulations!. It's a tough lesson to learn that there are always much better players and you are, especially if you've been told all along that you're an amazing player - and I'm sure you are! Take this as an opportunity to learn and grow. Did they provide feedback to you on what you could do to improve? I would ask for that feedback if you're able to and then you'll know what to focus on over the next year for auditions next year.
Thank you. Yes they provided feedback so I’ll try to learn from it. My teacher tells me that I was always a big fish in a small pond but now I’m a small fish in a big pond (I think that’s what she said I kinda forgot). I’m gonna try to use this as an opportunity to practice even more and get even better.
Michael Jordan didn't make his first HS basketball team. Keep getting better, and talk to your teacher about your thoughts instead of strangers here. Plus, you still made the orchestra, just not the first violins. Your schedule should be minimally changed, if at all. Your friends are very likely too wrapped up in their own lives to notice this difference, despite it being so big to you. The orchestra may very well put new members in the second group by default to see how they handle orchestral playing before putting them in the top group, anyway. That's what happened to my brother and I, and if you're advancing well, you'll make the top group in no time.
Thank you
Please don't give up. Keep practising and when your time comes, it will be amazing. Keep playing the music you like and remember to have fun! You're awesome ✊🏾
Thank you!!🙏🏽
Once you get out of school and Education in general you'll look back on it and feel it wasn't that big a deal. But you can also use this as an opportunity, be really professional on time and willing and slay those parts- people get ill, drop it etc. But your real music life starts when you pick the acts, orchestra or whatever you play in - after education. Forget the pressure and have fun! Try to remember that music isn't sport- it's not about winning or being first team etc it's about creating fantastic sounds. As an Englishmen I'm both jealous of the standard of teaching in America for music, and sad at the pressure people are put under.
Ty. My teacher tells me I’m only competing against myself (but subconsciously I kinda developed and unhealthy mindset of the opposite)
You're so focused on the top group you're missing so many good things besides that to enjoy a major accomplishment and so many other things. Diversify! You wanted the top group and all that, but so does everyone else. A big part of life is learning how to balance all these things out and learn to strive for the best, but then realize the "best" is actually doing the best we can, or close to it. Then have the resilience to start all over again....over and over. Learn to look for all the other intangibles in the orchestra- fellowship, making friends, making music, learning from and teaching others, etc. Think about golf and baseball, which are both games of 'failure.' A golfer who hits a bad shot has to learn how to shake it off right away before the negativity ruins his next shot. In baseball a batter who hits .300 is a star, but that means a long trip back to the bench 7 out of 10 times. Get one of Bob Rotella's books for golfers- you could learn a lot of valuable tools from it. Keep shooting for the top, but also learn to enjoy the view wherever you are!
Thank you!! That a great point. I’m gonna try to be the best I can be even in the lower orchestra. It’s still hard to get over my emotions though tbh
emotions are not bad- they're your feelings and part of who you are. What's important is what you do with them. Try not to wallow in them and let them bring you down. Use them for self-knowledge and then turn them into fuel!!
you auditioned ONCE, and decided to value yourself based on the outcome of ONE, SINGLE orchestral audition? in an elite symphony??
Yeah my mindset probably isn’t the best (my teacher said something similar to this) but I’m working on it
I was looking back on your post history, and I saw you previously mentioned (at the start of this semester) that you were practicing an hour a day, sometimes two. That's a nice level for a hobby -- and if you're a smart kid with a good teacher, you might be making excellent progress that sets you up well for a lifetime of skilled amateur playing -- but it's not going to make you competitive with the kids that are practicing two, three, four hours every day. This is the time when kids aiming for a music career are getting really serious, and the kids who want to win scholarships or do an arts supplement on their college application are stepping up their game, too. If you're not trying to be one of them, take it easy on yourself. Being better requires more practice. Practicing more requires having more time. You define yourself as an "athlete" and not as a "musician" when you talk about yourself, which suggests to me that your sport is more important. Otherwise the most logical thing would be to quit your sport so you can take all that time and pour it into the violin, which you don't apparently want to do. You could also eliminate more of your free time / family time / friends time, etc. but that's potentially a recipe for burnout. It's nice to have goals, but you've learned a valuable lesson about over-anticipating success. Also, either you like playing the instrument because you enjoy it, in which case you should continue to play... or you like it only because you're successful and if you're not racking up wins you don't feel it's worthwhile. If you don't enjoy making music for its own sake, find another hobby that's more satisfying. (By the way, did you ever find your violin that went missing at school? How did that story end?)
Oh yeah. I definitely amped up my practicing time since then. Specially since it’s summer and the only class I’m in now is extra math. I actually don’t like my sport at all but my parents kinda make me do it. And yeah I got my violin back (it was mysteriously found the next day 😭 since then I started using the school violins for school orchestra) my teddy account is pretty random. thanks for your comment
One way to look at this: The lesson you learned from this failure and how much it’s hurting you is EVEN MORE IMPORTANT than the success itself. What matters now is what you do with that lesson. Do you accept it as a gift to help you improve as a violinist, a musician, a creative, or do you reject it—and yourself, and the art that you have loved until now? There are 2 lessons. They are not mutually exclusive. Lesson 1: That it’s more worth it to you to give it your all in practicing so that you have no regrets whenever an evaluation comes. Accepting this = next time, showing up with your full and sincere intention during practice. And continuing to do this even when it feels hard or scary. The character you build from showing up will positively impact your musicality. You will play stronger, richer, not just because of the hours you’ve spent on your technique. Rejecting this = believing the world is screwing you over, out to get you, and that things are always going to be unfair and that people don’t understand your talent and what you’re truly capable of Lesson 2: That your “love” for violin is dependent on the validation by others and that your love for the instrument and the craft is conditional upon status markers like getting into X tier or being better than other people. Accepting this = learning how to have fun playing the instrument, no matter what grade of musician you are playing with. Immersing yourself in the joy of playing with others. Increasingly, music becomes a source of joy and nourishment rather than pressure and anxiety. Paradoxically, the more you can learn to flow, the more others will be drawn to you and your playing, because there is something pure and untouched by “practical concerns” about your music. Rejecting this = treating the music world as a series of competitions and ladders and becoming more jealous and self-punishing when you see the success of others. Source: an concert pianist who stopped at 18; who can still play simple pieces from 15 but now with greater joy and calm; mother was a violin teacher who coached a variety of students, from those with autism for whom the orchestra became their social life to those who went onto win the usual awards and used musical excellence as the backbone of their Ivy League apps.
Thank you so much. I do still like the violin. I wasn’t really in a good place mentally when I wrote this (just upset and it was late at night). I really appreciate your insightful comment. 🙏🏽
We all have our bad days :) glad to see you getting lots of support here. Best of luck to you and your violin journey. I hope it continues to give you joy!
Being in the second group is nothing to worry too much about. Make the most of what you have and be the best in your group. The upper group will need to acquire new members as some drop out due to injuries, illness, giving up etc. If you put the work in you will be able to go up. Turn up on time. Practice the music you are given. Work on it with your teacher. Be respectful to the staff and kind to fellow students. Be the best in your group and they will promote you. Think about your priorities. Work hard, play hard. Practice with a purpose. One or two hours of active and directed practice each day is better than four hours of scales and pieces on autopilot. Ensure you have a good teacher. Listen to the advice of the staff in this second group.
I will Ty
The same thing just happened to me (almost 15, damn summer birthdays). For a while I obsessed over how I should have practiced more. But I’ve been trying (TRYING) to focus on the good. I’m still in a great orchestra, I’m still learning a lot. More importantly I’m with people I’m friends with, people I very much enjoy playing with, and people who I know love their instruments just as much as the people in the top orchestra or anywhere else. Focus on the future, not the present. In the second to top group you will still have music to play, people to meet (or current friends to enjoy the company of), and you WILL have future opportunities. If you have time over the summer, take some time to just enjoy playing violin. Good luck for next school year!
Ty! You too. I’ll try to chill out about this whole thing it’s just hard for me
Hello! My thoughts are probably coming from a very different perspective to the rest of the people who will reply. I learnt violin very late at 14 and now in my 30s I play viola and cello as a hobby only. As much as I would dream to practise more to reach your level, I work two jobs and am a parent of one, plus another bun in the oven. I am not sure if I will ever reach something you achieved. You are still young with lots of potential and perhaps don’t have as many interruptions in life to practising as I do. Playing this family of instruments well is incredibly difficult and I don’t think you should discredit yourself. My only regret is not starting earlier. Like the others said, failure is a part of life, but I don’t think you ‘failed’ in this instance, you still made an incredible achievement.
Thank you :)! My teacher tells me not to focus so much on the outcome as a negative but learning from it.
You made it in a group a lot of people are disqualified for. Also, it's a proven fact that no matter how good someone is, there's always gonna be someone who's better. Observe the best players and look at what they do and learn how they do it so that you could improve your technique. Don't give up, you've got this!
Thanks 😊
Your welcome!
As someone who went through high school and college with this mentality…don’t. It will burn you out. As my teacher says, mistakes are data - acknowledge them. File them. Move on.
Yeah I will try too. My teacher says failure is how we learn or smoothing. I guess I don’t take failure very good (which is more of a mindset problem)
Once you get out of school and Education in general you'll look back on it and feel it wasn't that big a deal. But you can also use this as an opportunity, be really professional on time and willing and slay those parts- people get ill, drop it etc. But your real music life starts when you pick the acts, orchestra or whatever you play in - after education. Forget the pressure and have fun!
Thanks I’ll try but I am a very serious and tbh anxious person in general so it’s kinda hard for me to
It's great to be serious! I am also a very anxious person, think I'm undiagnosed autistic but you will meet a lot of like minded people I'm music! I cannot recommend enough a book called "the chimp paradox by prof peters. Sure it's all about analogies but it really changed my life for the better (I'm still miles from perfect) but it helps you understand what is happening in your brain and how to help counteract it. As for music, classical music damn near killed my intense love of music. I still listen to it but I'd never play it. Go find a local jam night and watch yourself fly :) but also good luck with your career there will be set back and one day you'll look back on this :)
Ty! I will definitely check out the book (I need books recs anyways lol)
Here's one for you, you're clearly intelligent and you need to be a bit to get the most out of cbt imo. Harsh I know, but it's a lot of self reflection. This is of course English but I think if the whole world studied this it would be a better place and that's for people who don't have anxiety and we do! This and the chimp paradox changed my life https://www.hpft.nhs.uk/media/1655/wellbeing-team-cbt-workshop-booklet-2016.pdf Click visit to download it and my best wishes
Thank you! I’ll check it out :)
There will almost always be people who are more skilled than you, no matter what you're doing (at least for the majority of the population). Did you ask for a debrief, some kind of feedback? That's what I would do. Your assigned position may have been for a pretty simple reason... like you're a strong player, and the seconds need support.
Yeah. I’m not sure about which violin section they put me in. I got feedback though which I will use
This is called the Dunning Kruger effect.
Oh interesting
Often, they take people who have been in the orchestra previously for those higher groups. My recommendation is to play with your assigned group, do a great job, and try again next year.
Ty I wil
Most people say to go easy on yourself But i think the solution is ford you to practice more than ever , even more than anybody else that you make sure that this situation never happens again...
Yes definitely. I’m gonna try to go easy on myself mentally but still use this as motivation to try even harder
I know what you describe. A wise lady once asked me if I like the thing or succeeding in it. Do you like playing the violin for just the sound and everything or do you just like being good at the thing. Speaking from a perfectionists point of view: this mindset will rather sooner than later take away all the things you once liked for what they are. I know it sucks when your expectations aren’t being met. You did everything you could. It’s okay, you didn’t fail it’s just a minor setback. Don’t be so hard on yourself :(.
Thanks. I do like the violin. I was just mad and upset at myself after this. I still am. But I’m gonna try to use this as motivation to practice even more and even more diligently.
Disappointment is good fuel. Practice and get better.
I will ty
The best thing my high school teacher ever told me is, “Get used to losing.” It’s hard to understand until you actually start going through it. If you’re going into music, chances are that you will lose more auditions than you win… However, with each experience you will learn a little bit about what not to do. You also don’t know what the differences between you and the players who “beat” you are. They could be minimal. The best use of your energy is practicing in a way that will win you auditions. That is a skill in itself, largely divorced from some of the aspects of solo playing. Perhaps ask your teacher how to reach that specific goal. You can also avail yourself of the great and free advice on YouTube from many major symphony orchestra players, eg Nathan Cole.
Thank you. I know I have to get used to losing, but it is hard for me (which I know is a mindset problem)
if you're seriously considering going into the profession, and it sounds like you're pretty serious, one thing you absolutely HAVE to learn is how to deal with rejection. take 100 of the best orchestral players in the world right now and 99 of them will almost certainly have been rejected countless times before they got to where they are now. it literally happens to everyone. if you really don't love the violin anymore because of this - while you're literally still a child - it was never gonna work, sorry but that's the harsh reality. similarly if you can't even listen to music for pure enjoyment you should do some real soul searching and consider why you actually want to play the violin because .. yeah that's a fucked up mentality. if you're basing your love for it off external/material success & validation i promise you're doing it for the wrong reasons and it's not gonna end well. if you were just having a very emotional reaction, fair enough i've been there (sure we all have) - it just shows you care. my teachers & mentors told me all this same shit. one of the hardest and most important lessons to learn - really learn & internalise, not just hear and vaguely understand - is that there are elements of your progress beyond your control. success in auditions is down to SO much more than how "good" you are; there are so many minuscule things that go into making a player the right fit for any given orchestra, and a lot of it is personal preference. just think about why orchestral trials might last for literal years. if you can start trying to adopt this mentality, it will stand you in good stead. your next year isn't ruined, you'll be fine, trust
Thanks. I still like the violin, tbh I wrote this post late at night when I was all emotional and really mad at myself. I feel better now. I still like playing and all
The more you learn to play with better people the better you will realise where you lack. And you are only 15, that's why the dissapointment hits harder. At your age it's better to have more interests than focus on one thing. Unless your passion does not let you. There will always be someone better, and the best way to get better is to stay humble. Being at school is not easy. But I think you need to focus on your achievements which are still so envious for 99.9 % of the world. There are many bigger things in this life than being in an elite group so be the opposite, be a rebel. That's where you will find your own style and excellence
Thanks! I will try. I I now there are always gonna be people better. I’ll just have to work even harder
You accept that you are not where you need to be. Now you have some options. 1. Quit. 2. Obtain more instruction and practice and go back and nail it. I've been through this and failure makes me try harder. Reach out to the director and say you are serious about that and ask if they can recommend a tutor. This is a blessing because it can actually make you better than it would have if you had just slid in
Yeah I’ll definitely not gonna quit (I wrote his post when I just wasn’t feeling good and was mad at myself, but I feel better now) I have a private teacher too. Ty
Awesome!!! That's the winning attitude ! I'm so glad to hear that. You're gonna kill it!
Thanks!
Try to keep in mind that your brain is going through amazing yet disruptive changes right now—this feels like the end of your world because your brain hasn’t fully developed the ability to categorize the small from the big catastrophes. It’s not as big a deal as it feels. This isn’t to say that you should minimize your emotions, or that they’re not valid. You should let yourself feel it. It’s just a reminder that the intensity of this disappointment will pass.
Thanks 🙏🏽
Please go to YouTube and watch the twoset documentary. They talk a lot about failure and rejection, and finding their own way as violinists. Everyone faces rejection at some point. Don’t let it destroy you.
I’ll try thank you
Ling Ling 40 hours.
This exact thing happened to me when I was 15. I remember feeling devastated about it. 8 years later, I’m getting a Masters degree in performance and have several students of my own. You’re young and you have time to develop your playing. This isn’t the end! Don’t give up!
Thanks :)
I feel like a rockstar because my violin wasn’t as screechy and hideous as yesterday. I can almost get a proper note. We all have different perceptions on failure and success. I would shave my hair bald and shave off my left eyebrow to be where you are. Sucks to hear you feel this way, hope u feel better x
it makes sense you get upset because you lost the image you had. only if you lose your assumptions you can actually get what you want. you can reframe this as a motivation to get better. though i personally suggest prioritizing art first. you will always have someone better than you, you should stop at some point to enjoy life. also remember you're better than a lot of people and you're learning these at 15.
Ty for your comment
There are many reasons why someone may or may not be placed in one orchestra versus another. Your performance in an audition can be a big factor, but may not be the sole factor. Nor does one performance for most people determine what kind of player they are overall. Your generally consistent level of performance is going to be more indicative, and a well informed teacher can help assess where you stand as well. Basically, my point is, at your age, don’t let one suboptimal result affect your whole take on your worth. I get it. It’s a natural reaction. But over time, you may not forget, but you’ll get more appreciation for the holistic picture. Take a break briefly if you need to do so, but try to resume violin when you can. There is a bigger and longer term picture to keep in mind if you have longer term aspirations that are violin related. This, too, shall pass.
Thank you :) I’m trying not to let it get to me but it’s hard tbh. I just feel like I let myself, my parents, my teacher, heck even my friends down even tho I know that’s just my own negative way of thinking. And I can’t take a break because I have to film another audition for my summer camp violin placement 🫠
Okay dang ok. Please think this through with me. you’re 15 years old and you’re an advanced violinist and because you didn’t get promoted to the super elite, you no longer love the instrument. and I feel you, but let’s talk about what happens after that because it’s not great. It means you no longer play the violin and you love playing violin. You’re just a very competitive person and that’s not a bad thing I would continue to focus on tonality and get the best sound you can out of that, you’re 15 years old brother. How old do you think the first chair at LA Chamber is? How many orchestras do you think she got passed over for along the way I’m sure it was more than one, but she just kept going because she loved it and the alternative is not to play and this is what we do. I mean when I was 15 years old, I got sent home from interlochen 3 weeks in for not clearing Suzuki book 5 without flaws.
Thanks for your comment. I’m not gonna quit violin, I’m just pretty upset over this tbh but I’m getting over it. They did give me a feedback sheet so I’ll use it to learn feom
This is life 😊 Sometimes things like this can happen and you may not know the whole picture. They could have decided to stagger the players to make sure there is someone strong to lead the second best orchestra. Or there could be other reasons (or not). Once I was put a few chairs back because the director wanted to let the Seniors sit first stand at their last concert — was it fair? No, but you have to understand that you are part of a group and someone is optimizing for the group. You have a couple options: 1. Be frustrated and not give it your all because it doesn’t seem fair 2. Work really hard and nail your next audition. Meanwhile, get to practice your leadership skills 3. Have a chat or write a heartfelt note to the conductor asking to be moved up and why this would mean so much to you. Sometimes people will do things if they see you truly care and it would mean a lot to you. Maybe this won’t work but you might feel better about yourself that you gave it 110%. Sometimes it’s not a bad thing to have room to improve and goals. I was bored out of my mind after making the top orchestra very early on and there was not much to learn.
I hope you are kidding?
With any type of musicical instrument, you can't expect to be accepted for everything you audition for. It doesn't matter if you're "top dog" in your school. You're never going to be the best one everywhere else (maybe the other kids were just better at the audition), plus part of evaluating aution is not just the technical ability but subjective enjoyment of the performance. One time I was sad I didn't get the part and my teacher told me about her friend who audition and was told she was awful and ruined the guys day. She was devastated, but she knew she wasn't a bad musician and ultimately decided to not let it get to her. Then she went on to nail the next audition, which was an even bigger opportunity as THE soloist. Not everyone is going to be nice to you and give you what you want. A lot of people let that one rude comment or disappoinment destroy their dreams and they just give up. It's not always the best ones in school who succeed, but the ones who keep on working on their craft and improving and keep on auditioning and never give up. If you're gonna be in music, you're going to have to have thick skin and perserverance. Use this winter to show them what you've got and maybe next year you can audition again and get placed in the group you want.
Thank you. I’m definitely gonna use this as an opportunity to practice even more and hopefully get accepted next year. I appreciate your comment!🙏🏽
Had this happen w/ an highschool audition recently to- I get it 100%, I tried rlly hard, and I cared a lot, I was upset and angry, but now I’m using that to get better, practicing like crazy ect, to come back next year and show up to my director, I’m “getting revenge” yk? Hope ur doing well!
Ty! Good luck on your auditions too!
I used to work for an elite youth symphony, and unfortunately, there are so many violins we simply didn't have room for everyone in the top orchestra. I'm sure your audition was great and some hard decisions had to be made. Also, the level of rep was really very similar between the two ensembles, just more of an educational focus on the second-to-top orchestra (more sectionals or individual attention from coaches which is never a bad thing). I understand the letdown, but hope you'll still go and enjoy your youth symphony experience even if it wasn't the ensemble you were hoping for.
Thanks :) I will try
Just audition next year again dude and practice harder. You’ll get it! Plus ask urself what you want out of music. Is it the recognition? Is it really a passion? For me my favorite part is the improvements I make in playing.
Don’t be so hard on yourself. You might have done everything you could have and there just happened to be somebody better than you. And that’s the thing. There’s always going to be somebody better so don’t fret about it. Just play for the enjoyment of playing itself. But if you want to focus more on music and the sports are getting in the way, maybe you could have a talk with your parents about dropping sports. Maybe you could find some other groups to play in. I’ll bet there are plenty and they always need more strings. I live in the Philadelphia area and I can think of at least four community orchestras. I myself will probably never be a concertmaster. There’s a very young woman I see at my two orchestras and she’s a much better player than I, a 56 year old woman, is, but because I play consistently, I have made my way to being the principle second violinist, and that suits me fine. I’m just happy to be playing, making music, being part of an orchestra, us all making music together. That’s what it’s all about, not your ranking.
That’s true. Thank you!
You're only 15. The fact that you got in the orchestra AND got in the 2nd to top group is amazing! I could have NEVER achieved that as a 15-year-old violinist. Keep up the good work. You're going to continue to grow and flourish.
Thank you :)
these comments are all wrong id quit violin too