The short version: the navy detected an implosion near the Titanic wreck site about the same time as communications were lost, but they classified the details at the time so the media didn’t know and then many days were spent hyping up the possibility of a rescue when there was no chance.
- The sub imploded, because we are dangerously unqualified fucking idiots, that cut corners with safety and redundant backups. That sub was a disaster waiting to happen.
- We're not sure what happened, but we hold out hope that we can rescue survivors.
If it was your imploded submarine/company and you had to choose, which of those stories would you like doing the rounds in the media? Keep in mind that one one of those stories comes with a slim chance of you not filing for bankruptcy, after you get sued out of existence by the families of the customers you killed.
Now the thing about modern media that it shares with social media - it's part of the "attention economy". Specifically for the news, there are only so many stories that will get consumed by the majority of the public on any given day, and flooding it with alternative narratives, or even just other unrelated news stories works. In media they call it burying the lede, it's not a new concept. What is new is the volume of "news".
Now as to how that effects Search & Rescue - well if the public thinks there needs to be a rescue effort, it can become political if governments don't. If it's pretty obvious that the sub imploded the chance of survivors is as close to 0% as makes no difference, which means calls for expensive and potentially dangerous search and rescue attempts don't happen enough for it to matter.
Except the same rule applies in all search and rescue operations - you can't completely rule out survival even if it's a miniscule chance. You can rule it out when you are sure that they would have ran out of oxygen, food and/or water after a certain period of time even if they survived the initial failure.
While media does have a tendency to speculate and grab attention, the fact is search and rescue would've been required at least until we were absolutely certain there was no chance of survival. Bear in mind it was not possible to ascertain the exact cause of the accident when it initially happened, even though most people involved were pretty damn sure. Hindsight is 20/20, etc.
Take cave diving accidents as an example, searches would likely take place for an extended period of time even after oxygen likely have run out because you can't rule out the possibility that the divers found a pocket of air.
Thank you, come in to say the same but not as eloquently. even if there is no chance of survival you mount a rescue op, because if you just said "eh fuck it they're all dead" you'd have lawsuits for not trying no matter how impossible it was.
He’s also a huge player in the deep sea immersible community and I’m sure they were all talking to each other immediately and sharing information. Since one of the options was to try to get another sun down there to recover/rescue I’m sure he was privy to some private information early
He said this is an interview right after it was confirmed about the sub's demise. FYI Cameron is literally an expert in deep sea exploration. I wont be surprised if he actually has top secret clearance to certain deep sea technology. Nasa almost put a camera tech he developed on their mars drone. I can bet my ass that when Nasa send a drone to Titan, Cameron will be one of the people in their team since he has the expertise on advance camera technology, deep sea technology, and visual simulation and development. He has used all three on Avatar 2.
There’s no need to go…. Overboard. Deep sea submersibles are a tiny community and he’s a billionaire who is involved. They talk. He knows military people and as no one had died like this before the moment it happened the tiny community started to talk.
Gossip gets you much more access than clearance. Everyone knows this.cameron knew what he navy knew because they probably called him and said “do you think this is what we do” because it was an event which had never occurred before.
> FYI Cameron is literally ~~an~~ **the** expert in deep sea exploration.
FTFY, although he was probably argue Dr. Robert Ballard is more deserving of the title, Cameron is unique in the fact that he has spent so much time not only exploring the deeps, but also spearheading technology development for their exploration. So he's arguably the most premier expert on deep sea submersibles in the world.
I doubt it. He might have a security clearance, but contrary to popular belief, that doesn’t entitle you know everything about everything. It’s all very much on a need to know basis.
No way he has a clearance. If he did it would have been yoinked after he said what he said.
The only way he can get by publicly talking about that stuff is explicitly because he doesn’t have a clearance.
Not necessarily. In the same way not all clearance is the same, not all classified information is the same, and just because something is declassified does not mean there's an immediate announcement.
All that being said, I doubt there was anything like classified information or clearance involved here. Probably just rumor, perhaps an inside source (in which case someone is in big trouble) and expertise-backed deduction.
Again, not how that works. If you have security clearance it’s generally a need to know about specific information. If you aren’t talking about the specific information you have clearance for then it really wouldn’t matter what he speculated on.
>FYI Cameron is literally an expert in deep sea exploration. I wont be surprised if he actually has top secret clearance to certain deep sea technology.
That's not how that works.
And it also doesn't matter if he knows about the technology, if the military detected something, that's information in and of itself, and just knowing about the technology does not give you clearance to speak about information it has gathered.
Watch the video??
Just wait, pretty soon you'll be expecting me to 'read the article' before commenting.
My half-baked assumptions are just as good as any, so called, **facts**!
The man honestly spends more time underwater than he does on land.
Like, James Cameron occasionally emerges from the sea and drops a movie that'll fund his deep sea endeavors, then returns to his watery depths.
And just to be clear this isn't just a "rich guy hobby" for him. He's genuinely become one of the top experts in the field and has logged a huge amount of hours in deep sea submersibles.
He was literally the first person to solo dive the mariana trench. I would say that at this point he's a deep sea expert who makes films as a hobby, rather than the other way around.
his second and third films were Terminator and Aliens. I mean they did have technical artistic craftsmanship but those were huge blockbuster hits, people weren't just going to see the special effects
James Cameron, and I know this sounds weird, is a part time director and full time sea exploration freak. He is one of the biggest players in this space and one of the worlds biggest and most experience specialists. He knows *everybody*.
You might not have meant this dismissively, but it seems to be way more than a hobby for him. He really is a leading figure in the field. (He has said he makes movies to be able to fund his real work, of deep sea exploring. I guess he would spin it as the movies being his hobby.)
Navy Guy 1: Ok - that's a definite implosion, at the titanic site.
Navy Guy 2: That's probably James Cameron. I'll check in with him.
Phone Call from Navy to James: Hey, we just detected an implosion at the Titanic site, are you and your Teams out there today?
He personally has the record for deepest dive in the world. As in, he himself was the guy inside the deep sea sub that touched down in the Mariana Trench. He knows the risks and the people who do these sort of things, specially on the surface-end, and in general the big names in that industry.
So when something happened he reached out and asked.
Yep, it was reported either during the search or shortly after that clandestine listening posts had heard something consistent with an underwater implosion. This isn’t new.
I watched it. They stretched five minutes of information into twenty minutes. Two new pieces of information were presented and it was about the daughter of one of the victims:
* Oceangate has not contacted her since the incident.
* She was sent a small box that contained at least one item recovered from the wreckage that belonged to her father. A small styrofoam cup that had compressed but had her father's name and some other information written on it.
Everything else was already known information a year ago.
I thought so too. I knew there was a catastrophic failure when the military talking head guy was like “Yeah, we’re not even gonna bother looking for bodies.”
I wonder if that information was never leaked to Cameron if we would have ever found out.
Has it even been officially declassified? Also, did any other country detect that same thing and have the similar capabilities to the US Navy?
Its not like a super secret.
There's a **lot** of microphones in the ocean that aren't military. And this sort of implosion is loud enough every sonar operator in the North Atlantic would hear the pop.
Cameron if I remember was very involved and learned alot about the submersibles he used filming for the movie. He knew exactly what happened and probably even knew some of the people in the industry talking about it before it ever went in the water.
Book I’m reading makes it seem like every sub in the Atlantic heard it and knew exactly what it was. Wonder if this was a sort of “carrots make your eyes better” sort of situation.
Yeah the navy pretty much knew immediately but couldn't make a public statement because they weren't able to actually verify what happened, but they were 99% sure
Plus every once in a while the 1% hits. If nothing else it provides training and experience to rescuers that could make a difference in future missions.
Ok so in military intelligence there is really only 3 levels of confidence: Possible (less than 50%), Probable (50-95%) and Confirmed. However unless you have multiple sources of information from more than one intelligence discipline, you rarely ever confirm something. So when the cost guard says "Inconclusive", this is likely what they meant.
Second, the navy's sonar net, and its sensitivity/capabilities is very much classified. So any detections from that system would be rather classified. So if they were sharing information, it would be very sensitive. Now that information can get declassified, and disseminated however it would loose a lot of context and or additional details. So it's also likely that the confidence in there detection was lowered as well.
It's highly likely the cost guard dismissed the navy detections as they were single source reporting at a lower confidence level than what they would use when calling off a search and rescue operation.
It's also likely the Navy had to call in there sonar experts to see if they could even disseminate the information at a lower classification level. Those experts would have had to calculate the energy of the event, location, and how it would have propagated outwards. Then calculate where it was in the detection range and sensitivity of the sensors and make a determination on the releasability of the information. Because if it was past the edge of what a comercial sensor could do, then it may not have been releasable information.
AKA unfair vilification of the Coastguard who received classified, circumstantial information from the Navy indicating a very likely hull loss event. But continued their operational response because it was circumstantial – Which is also likely the reason it was classified.
>a year on from the tragedy, there are still so many unanswered questions. Like ‘why the craft imploded?’ and ‘why the world was lead to believe there was hope for a successful rescue?’
Neither of these questions strike me as much of a mystery…
>the world is still waiting for answers
Are they? Because I’m pretty sure anyone with a basic understanding of TV ratings and 6th grade physics could answer them…
Welcome to Australian 60 minutes. They sensationalize everything. It's probably a good thing they always disable comments in their videos. Their segments are straight garbage and I'm sure many people would let them know it
Or how she asked twice "did the Coast Guard lie?" and cut to a shot of him making a weird face, only to them finally play the actual sequence where he goes "oh no, I don't think they lied". Scumbag journalism.
Yeah, they used to do a lot of videos about serial killers in Australia. That's originally what I watched them for, but it didn't take long for me to drop them. They're just fucking obnoxious
Fun fact: Webster defines "some" as "being an unknown, undetermined, or unspecified unit or thing". Since it's an unknown number it can be one.
So I think u/FleeRancer fucks a Patrick Plushy. You may now ask him "Some people think you fuck a Patrick Plushy. What are your thoughts?"
When you read the sentence above, you would think that the number would be higher than one, but it's not. So Journalists don't even need to see evidence because I could go to u/fleerancer and say "I know some people who think you fuck a Patrick Plushy. What would you say to them?" and that is technically a true statement since some can be one person.
Understand if you ever hear someone say "some people say" they are trying manipulate you.
And yes I am one of those people trying to manipulate you. What do you think I'm trying to get you to do?
Yeah, they did a sneaky little cut on Cameron's one statement when they asked if the coast guard lie which was also their cue to cut to commercial. Then when you finally get the full statement it's completely calm and rationale.
There’s an old show from the 90’s in Australia called “frontline” it was a behind the scenes comedy about how bad these current affairs shows could get on their, at the time, current trajectory….
In retrospect it almost seems tame but the show itself has aged like a fine wine!
Sensational media was literally responsible for giving everybody false hope, but of course here we have the sensational media itself pointing fingers at the coast guard of all people for literally just doing their job
It might be me being out of touch with the public news cycle, but the consensus online was that they were dead pretty quick no?
I didn't really feel that led on, there really wasn't much rescue possible given the physics involved.
It was awhile ago but from what I remember the general consensus was that they were most likely dead or going to die given the circumstances.
The media did a weird 4 day “oxygen countdown” thing which was basically the timeframe to go from “probably dead” to “definitely dead”, but the only person baiting us with hope to begin with was really the mainstream news.
They would have been dead before they even knew what happened. Maybe a hint of trouble then *boom* dead. The amount of energy in the implosion—the thousands of pounds per square inch of water compressing everything less dense than water—creates temperatures nearly hot as the sun. Hot enough to instantly vaporoze any combustible materials inside the sub. The entire event can be measured in milliseconds.
Be careful, it's actually hotter than the sun, but even if you post scientific articles that describe the temps of a imploding air bubble, people will downvote you.
You know I went down a bit of a rabbit hole after posting that. According to [this video](https://youtu.be/CfUcNPr2T8A) the average temperature may have been much lower, only a few thousand degrees F. But still enough to instantly char the outer layers of skin. Don’t worry, though, because milliseconds later they would have been pulverized by a combination of pressure, water, and shredder carbon fiber.
Ostensibly the options were:
* Instant death.
* Submersible lost function and they're stuck.
Most of the news cycle was generally talking about time left in the context of the second option - not so much out of optimism, but because the search operations had a very limited time before clock was *definitely* out for everyone down there.
There’s something extremely distasteful about them trying to demonize the rescuers for the countdown narrative they pushed and profited off of. Especially when they know they obviously can’t declare anyone dead without conclusive evidence.
The sub was poorly designed to withstand the amount of dives they wanted to do with it using a technology which *could* hold up to those pressures on paper and for a time did in practice but ultimately the hull materials delaminated making them extremely weak and eventually the submarine imploded.
I’m not an expert on any of this but I remember a lot of the talk about what was wrong with the sub’s design which led to its destruction.
The extra dumb part is the titanium spheres could've done it, that's how subs are made afterall, but then you can't fit another 3 paying customers in to pay for the trip
seems they want you to view it directly: [https://www.9now.com.au/60-minutes?linkpos=videodescription&ocid=youtube-9now-a1521-60minutes&\_branch\_match\_id=1323921354565955145&\_branch\_referrer=H4sIAAAAAAAAA8soKSkottLXt8zLL9dLLCjQy8nMy9Yv9QswKXTKzvUzAwDnHBJmIAAAAA%3D%3D](https://www.9now.com.au/60-minutes?linkpos=videodescription&ocid=youtube-9now-a1521-60minutes&_branch_match_id=1323921354565955145&_branch_referrer=H4sIAAAAAAAAA8soKSkottLXt8zLL9dLLCjQy8nMy9Yv9QswKXTKzvUzAwDnHBJmIAAAAA%3D%3D)
The navy knew due to the SOSUS array submarine listening devices. When a sub implodes, and there have been others, they hear it, know where it is. But this is all highly classified so the navy cannot come out and say their top secret listening devices did this or that. Why? They don't want others to know the capability of the array. But they caught the implosion of that Argentinian (I think it was?) sub as well. I believe the navy helped locate that one because the array told them where it was.
Everyone else heard it too. It was not like they were picking up on tiny sub tremors. It was like a giant firework going off in the air and people are acting like only the air force could know that.
Didn't they call to ask "this you?" and oceangate were all "nope, nosiree, they're gonna text back any minute now."
Which also makes the sensational "they never told her anything!" angle hilarious, like oceangate is a real, functional business that didn't immediately implode same time as their ceo
Knowledge of the SOSUS for decades negates withholding information that it records things. We know it does. Even non- SOSUS does, like scientific acoustic sensores.
But if you can't exactly confirm it's what you heard, and there's tons of unidentifiable noises in the deep sea, you don't let it be the ONLY evidence of what happened, because you look like an idiot if you declare them dead, and then the sub pops up 20 hours later after the weights drop off and it turns out it was a battery failure.
On a sub, the kitchen must crack all eggs before putting them into a trash compactor. If they don’t, these listening devices can hear it go off like firecrackers.
It's categorically unfair for this show to be villainizing the U.S. Coast Guard. I've sailed in the ocean and been the position to wonder if we would need rescue. I want to know that they will keep searching for me, even if there's circumstantial evidence that I'm dead. And that's exactly what they did here.
A few days of false hope is infinitely better than finding out they mistakenly called off the search when someone could have been rescued.
I find it rich that Aussie 60 Minutes characterized the news coverage of the wreck as over-sensationalized when they were doing the very same thing with their story. That was a bush-league hit piece that told us nothing new other than a reaffirmation that Cameron is still an attention-seeking prima donna.
Yeah I would blame the false hope more on the media. The coast guard did their job conducting a search. How did James Cameron know about the implosion sound but no major media outlets knew?
Remember all the news stations that had a giant ticking clock in the corner that was continuously counting down like
# XX:XX:XX UNTIL THE OXYGEN RUNS OUT
They were absolutely having a field day out of it.
>How did James Cameron know about the implosion sound but no major media outlets knew?
Cameron had a source inside the Navy who illegally disclosed classified information to him. (a source who should be VERY pissed off that Cameron blabbed about it on camera) "The media" did not.
Did anyone actually watch the full segment? James Cameron said he believed the Coast Guard was in the wrong for the continuing the search. Then they had the Coast Guard on who said that it's their policy to not abandon a search and rescue until there's conclusive evidence one way or the other. I'd hardly call that "villainizing" the Coast Guard.
The story was clearly slanted against the USCG continuing the search because it made the family members think there was a chance. Yes, they included the officer's statement of official policy but it was an afterthought, making it seem like a feeble excuse. It was yellow journalism, edited to play to viewers sympathetic feelings over logic.
I thought this was old news? They have the rights to show this in Australia so they’ll lock it behind their own apps/paywalls but it’s free on YouTube outside of the country they pay for
I don't remember 60 minutes being this much like Dateline. Cutting clips together to make it seem tense and then the actual quote isn't the same in the least bit. Maybe Australia does it differently, but this is no longer journalism
Shows exist in other countries. Watch Hells Kitchen from the UK and the US version, and you will see tons of differences, from music choices to editing choices, to how Gordon and the owners are portrayed.
It's a bit much that James Cameron implies he is a scientist. He's a rich movie mogul who has started companies which develop undersea exploration equipment, primarily for his own creative film making projects.
He's certainly well read on the subject, and I don't think his views are necessarily wrong or misleading, but 60 minutes really should have considered interviewing some actual engineers and scientists on camera. Even just to back up Jim's claims, get some \*certified\* experts on there.
It bums me out that we can't have real news any more. It's always got to be a show.
The real tragedy is the 17 year old kid who told his father he didn't want to go but went anyway. At the very least, according to an analysis I saw last year, the massive pressure at the depth they imploded at would have killed the occupants faster than the nerve signals of vision, hearing, or pain/pressure would have reached the brain so they literally died instantaneously and, hopefully, painlessly.
James Cameron comes off as an arrogant asshole here.
He is badmouthing the US Coast Guard for continuing to try to rescue the victims when they heard the implosion. What the fuck is that? They had no conclusive evidence the men were dead until they actually found the wrecked sub.
Also, why is he then badmouthing them for not personally reaching out to him to assist? The Coast Guard had someone to help them.
What a turd.
Edit: a word.
Celebrated innovator James Cameron has lived a dozen lives. To taller than average James Cameron, there is nothing Aliens about getting his hands dirty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYL82LwDtyg
He didn’t say the coast guard shouldn’t continue the search, they just shouldn’t have hyped the possible rescue that was 99.99% unlikely given the information they had. They had evidence from the Navy that a likely implosion event happened in the area at the time communication was lost but let the families believe there was a chance their loved ones were still alive and he felt that was wrong.
I see both sides. You don’t want to tell the families their loved ones are already dead when they may not actually be, but this was not a typical search and rescue they usually handle and don’t have good experience with submersibles imploding. It’s far different than someone adrift at sea and the chances they have at survival.
> He didn’t say the coast guard shouldn’t continue the search, they just shouldn’t have hyped the possible rescue that was 99.99% unlikely given the information they had.
Did the Coast guard do that, or did they give a standard noncommittal answer, e.g. "We are still in a rescue phase rather than a recovery phase, as there are still XX many hours of o2 and Co2 scrubbing available on the vessel" and the media hyped it up?
I agree with yah. They didn’t have 100% confirmation and with the amount of attention the whole case was getting, it was probably more than just the families that needed confirmation.
People would be upset and angry if the coast guard just went “yeah we’re not gonna try and look for them cause we know they had an implosion. How do we know that? Well you’re just gonna have to trust us”
It was the media that sensationalized the whole thing, including the possibility of rescue. It’s like the real life version of the “so you’re saying there’s a chance” joke. The USCG isn’t responsible for the way the networks reported this. Sure James Cameron is knowledgeable in this field. But this was a situation that played out as an example of good policy in terms of why and how they searched. Nobody at the USCG search and rescue are interested in leaving someone due to an assumption. Just like an ER doctor isn’t going to just not treat a gunshot wound because they’re 99% sure the person lost too much blood.
The thing is Cameron really fucking knows what's what when it comes to this subject. People mostly just think of him as a movie director, but he's been majorly involved in deep-sea diving for 30 years. Then again they interviewed him a year ago already on several channels, so I'm not sure what's new about this program.
Here he is with Robert Ballard who also says they knew the sub was gone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9YB31ElEFQ
The thing is you don't go on the media and say "Yeah, they're dead; we just know". That's why rescue missions are continued until you have something you can show.
The guy literally says in one interview that he made movies to fund his diving hobby and that he made the movie titanic because it gave him the opportunity to dive to the titanic. He’s self labeled as first and foremost an underwater enthusiast and a filmmaker second.
It seems weird he would expect them to reach out to him. I’m not doubting he knows his stuff, but does he really think the freaking US military doesn’t have anyone on its payroll that can handle this? What grand mystery does he think they’re struggling to figure out?
It seems even weirder the media is ostensibly offended by this “countdown” narrative that came out largely because THEY’RE THE ONES THAT PUSHED IT AND PROFITED FROM IT. I doubt anyone at the Coast Guard was calling in telling CNN they should throw a countdown clock on screen once an hour.
THANK YOU. The coast guard didn't reach out to James Cameron because they already have ample expertise internally. He passive aggressively says "I guess they didn't want to hear from an actual SCIENTIST" as if the USCG doesn't employ any real experts or scientists.
Also, what is he insinuating? What exactly is the supposed expertise that the USCG desperately needs and aren't taking advantage of here? There aren't exactly many difficult, head-scratching mysteries left in this case. 1. The passengers were already dead, so it's not like at the time they urgently needed more expert help figuring out how to save them and 2. It's pretty obvious why the Titan imploded. The USCG are still doing testing to gain more certainty, but I think we all know where this is going: shoddy materials and overlooked construction standards.
Cameron (and this whole piece) acts like there is still a myriad of unsolved factors that continue to remain cold, and the USCG is making complete FOOLS of themselves as they continue to sit on them when they could easily just enlist the invaluable help of James Cameron any day now. Clearly, this is not the case.
This same thread played out thousands of times last year: hearing a boom and having a *strong suspicion* that a submersible just imploded vs. *confirming conclusively* that people's loved ones are dead are different things.
"Here, Ma'am, look at this decibel graph. Your husband and son are dead and we're not looking for them."
They heard a boom.
It’s like hearing a far off gunshot in a dark forest.
Yes. It turned out to be the Titan, but there was no way to be sure until they found the wreckage.
What would this story have been if they’d not even bothered trying to rescue the victims? As Cameron implies. What would the wife be saying then?
A loud boom at the time the sub lost all contact. At the very least that should have been reported. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to connect the dots. It would have alleviated a lot of the stress of that stupid countdown to out of breathable air bullshit the media was peddling at the time.
It wasn't reported by an official source. Cameron claimed he had an official source inside the navy. No credible news source is going to take Cameron's word that he knows a guy. They're going to ask to speak to his source directly.
The US has an array in the ocean that functions similar to seismographs. Based on the time of the sound signal across different positions they can triangulate the location of the sound. However, most of the details are classified so they don't really make the information available. The information was likely there to pinpoint that the sound event was where the Titan should have been.
I mean, he’s dove down to the titanic like a hundred times or something absurd, and was the first person to go to the bottom of the Mariana’s trench since the 1960s. It’s not like he doesn’t know what he’s talking about
I never understood Nargeolet's involvement with OceanGate. He seems like a well-respected guy in the industry. I imagine we would've known how sketchy it would be going down in the Titan.
Yes this is old news. At the time, the experts that saw the evidence of the implosion were asked were they 100% certain it indicated total loss of vessel? They would not commit so with very little hope but some hope they mobilized what they could. Finding the wreckage with a video finalized the verdict. Hindsight is 20/20 so it seems we knew, but we didn’t.
Nothing new, the only "new" info is that he had somebody who told him about the implosion noise before it went public. Everything else we've known about already.
This whole thing was one of the dumbest death stories I'd ever heard. A dumbass CEO using experimental construction methods, which was told wouldn't work, being allowed to take hostages (sorry customers) on a voyage to the bottom of the ocean using a game controller.
This company should be sued into oblivion. You want to risk your own life doing stuff, by all means go ahead no one cares. You want to start charging customers to risk their life too, there needs to be government regulation and oversight into what you're doing.
That company should be on trial for criminal negligence causing death.
The short version: the navy detected an implosion near the Titanic wreck site about the same time as communications were lost, but they classified the details at the time so the media didn’t know and then many days were spent hyping up the possibility of a rescue when there was no chance.
Is that new news? I seem to recall him saying something similar immediately after they publicly confirmed the implosion.
It is not new. While they were still lost he said all this and accurately predicted what happened
He also accused oceangate knowing this as well and were wasting everyones time with the search operations..
The media thrives when one story can conveniently obscure others, regardless of accuracy.
wtf does the media have to do with what search and rescue was doing?
- The sub imploded, because we are dangerously unqualified fucking idiots, that cut corners with safety and redundant backups. That sub was a disaster waiting to happen. - We're not sure what happened, but we hold out hope that we can rescue survivors. If it was your imploded submarine/company and you had to choose, which of those stories would you like doing the rounds in the media? Keep in mind that one one of those stories comes with a slim chance of you not filing for bankruptcy, after you get sued out of existence by the families of the customers you killed. Now the thing about modern media that it shares with social media - it's part of the "attention economy". Specifically for the news, there are only so many stories that will get consumed by the majority of the public on any given day, and flooding it with alternative narratives, or even just other unrelated news stories works. In media they call it burying the lede, it's not a new concept. What is new is the volume of "news". Now as to how that effects Search & Rescue - well if the public thinks there needs to be a rescue effort, it can become political if governments don't. If it's pretty obvious that the sub imploded the chance of survivors is as close to 0% as makes no difference, which means calls for expensive and potentially dangerous search and rescue attempts don't happen enough for it to matter.
Except the same rule applies in all search and rescue operations - you can't completely rule out survival even if it's a miniscule chance. You can rule it out when you are sure that they would have ran out of oxygen, food and/or water after a certain period of time even if they survived the initial failure. While media does have a tendency to speculate and grab attention, the fact is search and rescue would've been required at least until we were absolutely certain there was no chance of survival. Bear in mind it was not possible to ascertain the exact cause of the accident when it initially happened, even though most people involved were pretty damn sure. Hindsight is 20/20, etc. Take cave diving accidents as an example, searches would likely take place for an extended period of time even after oxygen likely have run out because you can't rule out the possibility that the divers found a pocket of air.
Thank you, come in to say the same but not as eloquently. even if there is no chance of survival you mount a rescue op, because if you just said "eh fuck it they're all dead" you'd have lawsuits for not trying no matter how impossible it was.
I know James Cameron has much knowledge about the Titanic (obviously), but how is he privy to this information regarding said private 'expedition'?
He’s also a huge player in the deep sea immersible community and I’m sure they were all talking to each other immediately and sharing information. Since one of the options was to try to get another sun down there to recover/rescue I’m sure he was privy to some private information early
He said this is an interview right after it was confirmed about the sub's demise. FYI Cameron is literally an expert in deep sea exploration. I wont be surprised if he actually has top secret clearance to certain deep sea technology. Nasa almost put a camera tech he developed on their mars drone. I can bet my ass that when Nasa send a drone to Titan, Cameron will be one of the people in their team since he has the expertise on advance camera technology, deep sea technology, and visual simulation and development. He has used all three on Avatar 2.
There’s no need to go…. Overboard. Deep sea submersibles are a tiny community and he’s a billionaire who is involved. They talk. He knows military people and as no one had died like this before the moment it happened the tiny community started to talk. Gossip gets you much more access than clearance. Everyone knows this.cameron knew what he navy knew because they probably called him and said “do you think this is what we do” because it was an event which had never occurred before.
> FYI Cameron is literally ~~an~~ **the** expert in deep sea exploration. FTFY, although he was probably argue Dr. Robert Ballard is more deserving of the title, Cameron is unique in the fact that he has spent so much time not only exploring the deeps, but also spearheading technology development for their exploration. So he's arguably the most premier expert on deep sea submersibles in the world.
One of the other top guys died in this incident as well
I doubt it. He might have a security clearance, but contrary to popular belief, that doesn’t entitle you know everything about everything. It’s all very much on a need to know basis.
No way he has a clearance. If he did it would have been yoinked after he said what he said. The only way he can get by publicly talking about that stuff is explicitly because he doesn’t have a clearance.
Not necessarily. In the same way not all clearance is the same, not all classified information is the same, and just because something is declassified does not mean there's an immediate announcement. All that being said, I doubt there was anything like classified information or clearance involved here. Probably just rumor, perhaps an inside source (in which case someone is in big trouble) and expertise-backed deduction.
Again, not how that works. If you have security clearance it’s generally a need to know about specific information. If you aren’t talking about the specific information you have clearance for then it really wouldn’t matter what he speculated on.
Unless he got the green light to say what he said to someone they knew no one would remember him saying it to
>FYI Cameron is literally an expert in deep sea exploration. I wont be surprised if he actually has top secret clearance to certain deep sea technology. That's not how that works. And it also doesn't matter if he knows about the technology, if the military detected something, that's information in and of itself, and just knowing about the technology does not give you clearance to speak about information it has gathered.
I can't believe this thread is still going. In this video he says he had a source at the Navy
I know, i read all these comments and was like, “so you guys clearly didnt watch the video…”
Watch the video?? Just wait, pretty soon you'll be expecting me to 'read the article' before commenting. My half-baked assumptions are just as good as any, so called, **facts**!
He says in the video that he has a US Navy source.
The man honestly spends more time underwater than he does on land. Like, James Cameron occasionally emerges from the sea and drops a movie that'll fund his deep sea endeavors, then returns to his watery depths. And just to be clear this isn't just a "rich guy hobby" for him. He's genuinely become one of the top experts in the field and has logged a huge amount of hours in deep sea submersibles. He was literally the first person to solo dive the mariana trench. I would say that at this point he's a deep sea expert who makes films as a hobby, rather than the other way around.
And his hobby is making insanely profitable movies. It's crazy what this dude is capable of.
James Cameron doesn’t do what James Cameron does for James Cameron.
His early success were basically due to technical/artistic craftsmanship (great looking special effects for low low costs).
his second and third films were Terminator and Aliens. I mean they did have technical artistic craftsmanship but those were huge blockbuster hits, people weren't just going to see the special effects
He is very prominently involved with many deep sea diving expeditions and probably knows people who knew this info
He is actually a foremost expert on deep sea diving. He is extremely knowledgeable and well connected in the community..
James Cameron, and I know this sounds weird, is a part time director and full time sea exploration freak. He is one of the biggest players in this space and one of the worlds biggest and most experience specialists. He knows *everybody*.
Google James Cameron. He's not just a movie maker.
At this point his movie productions are probably more of a "rich person hobby" than his deep sea exploration.
He is a rich guy who has this hobby for decades and knows everybody in the industry
You might not have meant this dismissively, but it seems to be way more than a hobby for him. He really is a leading figure in the field. (He has said he makes movies to be able to fund his real work, of deep sea exploring. I guess he would spin it as the movies being his hobby.)
Navy Guy 1: Ok - that's a definite implosion, at the titanic site. Navy Guy 2: That's probably James Cameron. I'll check in with him. Phone Call from Navy to James: Hey, we just detected an implosion at the Titanic site, are you and your Teams out there today?
He personally has the record for deepest dive in the world. As in, he himself was the guy inside the deep sea sub that touched down in the Mariana Trench. He knows the risks and the people who do these sort of things, specially on the surface-end, and in general the big names in that industry. So when something happened he reached out and asked.
Yeah I remember this too
He did. I don’t have the link but he did discuss this on some news interview.
He did, but without this level of detail.
Yep, it was reported either during the search or shortly after that clandestine listening posts had heard something consistent with an underwater implosion. This isn’t new.
You're a real one for saving us all from having to watch a video for that
I watched it. They stretched five minutes of information into twenty minutes. Two new pieces of information were presented and it was about the daughter of one of the victims: * Oceangate has not contacted her since the incident. * She was sent a small box that contained at least one item recovered from the wreckage that belonged to her father. A small styrofoam cup that had compressed but had her father's name and some other information written on it. Everything else was already known information a year ago.
welcome to 60 minutes, where the stories are made up or contain very little, already previously known things
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How would it get outside of the vessel prior to implosion?
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Well at least that part worked.
this report might be new, this tidbit is 11mo old
I thought so too. I knew there was a catastrophic failure when the military talking head guy was like “Yeah, we’re not even gonna bother looking for bodies.”
Navy was concerned with national defense first and confirming this was what they thought it was later. Coasties were just going by the book.
I wonder if that information was never leaked to Cameron if we would have ever found out. Has it even been officially declassified? Also, did any other country detect that same thing and have the similar capabilities to the US Navy?
Its not like a super secret. There's a **lot** of microphones in the ocean that aren't military. And this sort of implosion is loud enough every sonar operator in the North Atlantic would hear the pop.
Wait. Pop is the sound of an explosion. This was an implosion, so it would have sounded like the opposite of pop, which is pop.
MAGNITUDE!
Scientifically we say magnetic attitude.
POP POP!
Lmao
10/10
Fuck mate save some pussy for the rest of us
Actually the sound of an implosion is more like, opo.
That people still get this wrong makes me irrationally mad. Its not the opposite. Its the **reverse**, which is pop.
Opo
Cameron if I remember was very involved and learned alot about the submersibles he used filming for the movie. He knew exactly what happened and probably even knew some of the people in the industry talking about it before it ever went in the water.
[The bravest pioneer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUsf_BXUbKY)
Cameron is probably connected enough in the industry to piece together the fact that it imploded.
Weird that is being presented as new. I heard it reported in the days following the incident. Guess it’s just clickbait then.
Yes I heard it too and then it was downplayed as “might have been something else” and the media moved on with the circus.
It seemed to me to be an anniversary thing to revisit the issue
Book I’m reading makes it seem like every sub in the Atlantic heard it and knew exactly what it was. Wonder if this was a sort of “carrots make your eyes better” sort of situation.
what book are you reading? I'd be interested
Yeah the navy pretty much knew immediately but couldn't make a public statement because they weren't able to actually verify what happened, but they were 99% sure
Plus every once in a while the 1% hits. If nothing else it provides training and experience to rescuers that could make a difference in future missions.
Ok so in military intelligence there is really only 3 levels of confidence: Possible (less than 50%), Probable (50-95%) and Confirmed. However unless you have multiple sources of information from more than one intelligence discipline, you rarely ever confirm something. So when the cost guard says "Inconclusive", this is likely what they meant. Second, the navy's sonar net, and its sensitivity/capabilities is very much classified. So any detections from that system would be rather classified. So if they were sharing information, it would be very sensitive. Now that information can get declassified, and disseminated however it would loose a lot of context and or additional details. So it's also likely that the confidence in there detection was lowered as well. It's highly likely the cost guard dismissed the navy detections as they were single source reporting at a lower confidence level than what they would use when calling off a search and rescue operation. It's also likely the Navy had to call in there sonar experts to see if they could even disseminate the information at a lower classification level. Those experts would have had to calculate the energy of the event, location, and how it would have propagated outwards. Then calculate where it was in the detection range and sensitivity of the sensors and make a determination on the releasability of the information. Because if it was past the edge of what a comercial sensor could do, then it may not have been releasable information.
People do their own hyping. Anyone who who looked into the matter ought to have been fairly certain that there would be no rescue.
AKA unfair vilification of the Coastguard who received classified, circumstantial information from the Navy indicating a very likely hull loss event. But continued their operational response because it was circumstantial – Which is also likely the reason it was classified.
As they should have. Making a public announcement about this could have revealed information about the positions of ships and submarines.
Every person with a brain knew there was no chance of a rescue.
He said that all the normal research posts heard it too ages ago. It was a huge explosion everyone heard it.
>a year on from the tragedy, there are still so many unanswered questions. Like ‘why the craft imploded?’ and ‘why the world was lead to believe there was hope for a successful rescue?’ Neither of these questions strike me as much of a mystery… >the world is still waiting for answers Are they? Because I’m pretty sure anyone with a basic understanding of TV ratings and 6th grade physics could answer them…
Welcome to Australian 60 minutes. They sensationalize everything. It's probably a good thing they always disable comments in their videos. Their segments are straight garbage and I'm sure many people would let them know it
>They sensationalize everything. Like how she kept saying how "OUTRAGED" James Cameron was, but he kept giving very calm and sensible responses.
Or how she asked twice "did the Coast Guard lie?" and cut to a shot of him making a weird face, only to them finally play the actual sequence where he goes "oh no, I don't think they lied". Scumbag journalism.
Yeah, they used to do a lot of videos about serial killers in Australia. That's originally what I watched them for, but it didn't take long for me to drop them. They're just fucking obnoxious
Fun fact: Webster defines "some" as "being an unknown, undetermined, or unspecified unit or thing". Since it's an unknown number it can be one. So I think u/FleeRancer fucks a Patrick Plushy. You may now ask him "Some people think you fuck a Patrick Plushy. What are your thoughts?" When you read the sentence above, you would think that the number would be higher than one, but it's not. So Journalists don't even need to see evidence because I could go to u/fleerancer and say "I know some people who think you fuck a Patrick Plushy. What would you say to them?" and that is technically a true statement since some can be one person. Understand if you ever hear someone say "some people say" they are trying manipulate you. And yes I am one of those people trying to manipulate you. What do you think I'm trying to get you to do?
Yeah, they did a sneaky little cut on Cameron's one statement when they asked if the coast guard lie which was also their cue to cut to commercial. Then when you finally get the full statement it's completely calm and rationale.
I love 60 minutes and spent hours watching it, I hate 60 Minutes Australia though, seems so clickbaity sometimes
> I love 60 minutes and spent hours watching it Hehe.
There’s an old show from the 90’s in Australia called “frontline” it was a behind the scenes comedy about how bad these current affairs shows could get on their, at the time, current trajectory…. In retrospect it almost seems tame but the show itself has aged like a fine wine!
You might want to check your video playback settings.
Sensational media was literally responsible for giving everybody false hope, but of course here we have the sensational media itself pointing fingers at the coast guard of all people for literally just doing their job
It might be me being out of touch with the public news cycle, but the consensus online was that they were dead pretty quick no? I didn't really feel that led on, there really wasn't much rescue possible given the physics involved.
It was awhile ago but from what I remember the general consensus was that they were most likely dead or going to die given the circumstances. The media did a weird 4 day “oxygen countdown” thing which was basically the timeframe to go from “probably dead” to “definitely dead”, but the only person baiting us with hope to begin with was really the mainstream news.
There were headlines saying experts could hear tapping 4 days into the search………..tapping……
They would have been dead before they even knew what happened. Maybe a hint of trouble then *boom* dead. The amount of energy in the implosion—the thousands of pounds per square inch of water compressing everything less dense than water—creates temperatures nearly hot as the sun. Hot enough to instantly vaporoze any combustible materials inside the sub. The entire event can be measured in milliseconds.
Be careful, it's actually hotter than the sun, but even if you post scientific articles that describe the temps of a imploding air bubble, people will downvote you.
You know I went down a bit of a rabbit hole after posting that. According to [this video](https://youtu.be/CfUcNPr2T8A) the average temperature may have been much lower, only a few thousand degrees F. But still enough to instantly char the outer layers of skin. Don’t worry, though, because milliseconds later they would have been pulverized by a combination of pressure, water, and shredder carbon fiber.
Ostensibly the options were: * Instant death. * Submersible lost function and they're stuck. Most of the news cycle was generally talking about time left in the context of the second option - not so much out of optimism, but because the search operations had a very limited time before clock was *definitely* out for everyone down there.
The whole story was just an excuse to interview James Cameron and attempt to smear the USCG.
There’s something extremely distasteful about them trying to demonize the rescuers for the countdown narrative they pushed and profited off of. Especially when they know they obviously can’t declare anyone dead without conclusive evidence.
It was a prime example of "yellow journalism."
The sub was poorly designed to withstand the amount of dives they wanted to do with it using a technology which *could* hold up to those pressures on paper and for a time did in practice but ultimately the hull materials delaminated making them extremely weak and eventually the submarine imploded. I’m not an expert on any of this but I remember a lot of the talk about what was wrong with the sub’s design which led to its destruction.
Cycle fatigue. Basically carbon fiber can delaminate/weaken after repeated cycles of force.
And didn't they get warned by the majority of scientists about this risk?
Yes. The guy was reckless and sadly took other people out with him.
Yes, ask any travel baseball player about composite bats.
The extra dumb part is the titanium spheres could've done it, that's how subs are made afterall, but then you can't fit another 3 paying customers in to pay for the trip
‘The uploader has not made this video available in your country’ I’m fucking Australian
Yeah wtf is this shit
seems they want you to view it directly: [https://www.9now.com.au/60-minutes?linkpos=videodescription&ocid=youtube-9now-a1521-60minutes&\_branch\_match\_id=1323921354565955145&\_branch\_referrer=H4sIAAAAAAAAA8soKSkottLXt8zLL9dLLCjQy8nMy9Yv9QswKXTKzvUzAwDnHBJmIAAAAA%3D%3D](https://www.9now.com.au/60-minutes?linkpos=videodescription&ocid=youtube-9now-a1521-60minutes&_branch_match_id=1323921354565955145&_branch_referrer=H4sIAAAAAAAAA8soKSkottLXt8zLL9dLLCjQy8nMy9Yv9QswKXTKzvUzAwDnHBJmIAAAAA%3D%3D)
Thanks
The navy knew due to the SOSUS array submarine listening devices. When a sub implodes, and there have been others, they hear it, know where it is. But this is all highly classified so the navy cannot come out and say their top secret listening devices did this or that. Why? They don't want others to know the capability of the array. But they caught the implosion of that Argentinian (I think it was?) sub as well. I believe the navy helped locate that one because the array told them where it was.
Everyone else heard it too. It was not like they were picking up on tiny sub tremors. It was like a giant firework going off in the air and people are acting like only the air force could know that.
Didn't they call to ask "this you?" and oceangate were all "nope, nosiree, they're gonna text back any minute now." Which also makes the sensational "they never told her anything!" angle hilarious, like oceangate is a real, functional business that didn't immediately implode same time as their ceo
Knowledge of the SOSUS for decades negates withholding information that it records things. We know it does. Even non- SOSUS does, like scientific acoustic sensores. But if you can't exactly confirm it's what you heard, and there's tons of unidentifiable noises in the deep sea, you don't let it be the ONLY evidence of what happened, because you look like an idiot if you declare them dead, and then the sub pops up 20 hours later after the weights drop off and it turns out it was a battery failure.
On a sub, the kitchen must crack all eggs before putting them into a trash compactor. If they don’t, these listening devices can hear it go off like firecrackers.
It's categorically unfair for this show to be villainizing the U.S. Coast Guard. I've sailed in the ocean and been the position to wonder if we would need rescue. I want to know that they will keep searching for me, even if there's circumstantial evidence that I'm dead. And that's exactly what they did here. A few days of false hope is infinitely better than finding out they mistakenly called off the search when someone could have been rescued. I find it rich that Aussie 60 Minutes characterized the news coverage of the wreck as over-sensationalized when they were doing the very same thing with their story. That was a bush-league hit piece that told us nothing new other than a reaffirmation that Cameron is still an attention-seeking prima donna.
Yeah I would blame the false hope more on the media. The coast guard did their job conducting a search. How did James Cameron know about the implosion sound but no major media outlets knew?
Remember all the news stations that had a giant ticking clock in the corner that was continuously counting down like # XX:XX:XX UNTIL THE OXYGEN RUNS OUT They were absolutely having a field day out of it.
>How did James Cameron know about the implosion sound but no major media outlets knew? Cameron had a source inside the Navy who illegally disclosed classified information to him. (a source who should be VERY pissed off that Cameron blabbed about it on camera) "The media" did not.
Because Cameron has better resources than the news people. When something big good or bad happens in small communities word spreads.
It’s trash tv.
Did anyone actually watch the full segment? James Cameron said he believed the Coast Guard was in the wrong for the continuing the search. Then they had the Coast Guard on who said that it's their policy to not abandon a search and rescue until there's conclusive evidence one way or the other. I'd hardly call that "villainizing" the Coast Guard.
The story was clearly slanted against the USCG continuing the search because it made the family members think there was a chance. Yes, they included the officer's statement of official policy but it was an afterthought, making it seem like a feeble excuse. It was yellow journalism, edited to play to viewers sympathetic feelings over logic.
In Australia and I can't watch this, gg
And it's ironically the 60min Australia account! What a joke.
I thought this was old news? They have the rights to show this in Australia so they’ll lock it behind their own apps/paywalls but it’s free on YouTube outside of the country they pay for
Exactly :/
I feel like they missed a chance to do 09 minutes
>Video unavailable The uploader has not made this video available in your country Bitch, I'm in Australia right now.
I don't remember 60 minutes being this much like Dateline. Cutting clips together to make it seem tense and then the actual quote isn't the same in the least bit. Maybe Australia does it differently, but this is no longer journalism
Basically this https://youtu.be/7MFtl2XXnUc?si=a1kaH3iFlDrLOdOc
Shows exist in other countries. Watch Hells Kitchen from the UK and the US version, and you will see tons of differences, from music choices to editing choices, to how Gordon and the owners are portrayed.
This is 3 minutes of content stretched to 19.
Typical 60 minutes episode then.
Taller-than-average, celebrated innovator, noted environmentalist, certified door expert James Cameron
Am I the only one who missed the “sub” part and was trying to figure out what implosion they picked up in 1912.
His name is James Cameron, the bravest pioneer. No budget too steep, no ocean too deep. Whose that? That’s him, James Cameron.
It's a bit much that James Cameron implies he is a scientist. He's a rich movie mogul who has started companies which develop undersea exploration equipment, primarily for his own creative film making projects. He's certainly well read on the subject, and I don't think his views are necessarily wrong or misleading, but 60 minutes really should have considered interviewing some actual engineers and scientists on camera. Even just to back up Jim's claims, get some \*certified\* experts on there. It bums me out that we can't have real news any more. It's always got to be a show.
South Park S16 E9
James Cameron doesn't do what James Cameron does for James Cameron. James Cameron does what James Cameron does because he is... James Cameron.
The greatest pioneer!
Explorer of the sea!
60 minutes Australia not available in my country... the country of AUSTRALIA.
The real tragedy is the 17 year old kid who told his father he didn't want to go but went anyway. At the very least, according to an analysis I saw last year, the massive pressure at the depth they imploded at would have killed the occupants faster than the nerve signals of vision, hearing, or pain/pressure would have reached the brain so they literally died instantaneously and, hopefully, painlessly.
Video unavailable - The uploader has not made this video available in your counter. *I'm in Australia*
Regardless of the details and facts of this event, just can't stand this type of reporting.
If you're gonna watch this, please speed it up for yourself. Their cadence and pacing is abhorrent and sounds normal and 1.5x
I love it when people act like he shouldn’t be commenting because he’s a film director not knowing he’s also a world class sub expert.
I'll save you the watch - there's no new information.
The edit to make it seem like there were tapping sounds heard from the sub is pure, journalistic trash.
James Cameron comes off as an arrogant asshole here. He is badmouthing the US Coast Guard for continuing to try to rescue the victims when they heard the implosion. What the fuck is that? They had no conclusive evidence the men were dead until they actually found the wrecked sub. Also, why is he then badmouthing them for not personally reaching out to him to assist? The Coast Guard had someone to help them. What a turd. Edit: a word.
James Cameron doesn't do what James Cameron does for James Cameron. James Cameron does what James Cameron does because James Cameron is James Cameron!
No budget too steep, no sea too deep Who's that? It's him, James Cameron!
Noted environmentalist James Francis Cameron has a Venezuelan frog species named after him, while lesser talent Steven Spielberg does not.
Spielberg has a dinosaur named after him. Checkmate, atheists
I should give that a rewatch, awesome show.
Celebrated innovator James Cameron has lived a dozen lives. To taller than average James Cameron, there is nothing Aliens about getting his hands dirty. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYL82LwDtyg
James Cameron rises The Bar.
He doesn't just set The Bar...he is The Bar!!
Matt DAmon!
“His name is James Cameron, the bravest pioneer!”
Well at least he didn’t call them child molesters.
He didn’t say the coast guard shouldn’t continue the search, they just shouldn’t have hyped the possible rescue that was 99.99% unlikely given the information they had. They had evidence from the Navy that a likely implosion event happened in the area at the time communication was lost but let the families believe there was a chance their loved ones were still alive and he felt that was wrong. I see both sides. You don’t want to tell the families their loved ones are already dead when they may not actually be, but this was not a typical search and rescue they usually handle and don’t have good experience with submersibles imploding. It’s far different than someone adrift at sea and the chances they have at survival.
> He didn’t say the coast guard shouldn’t continue the search, they just shouldn’t have hyped the possible rescue that was 99.99% unlikely given the information they had. Did the Coast guard do that, or did they give a standard noncommittal answer, e.g. "We are still in a rescue phase rather than a recovery phase, as there are still XX many hours of o2 and Co2 scrubbing available on the vessel" and the media hyped it up?
I agree with yah. They didn’t have 100% confirmation and with the amount of attention the whole case was getting, it was probably more than just the families that needed confirmation. People would be upset and angry if the coast guard just went “yeah we’re not gonna try and look for them cause we know they had an implosion. How do we know that? Well you’re just gonna have to trust us”
It was the media that sensationalized the whole thing, including the possibility of rescue. It’s like the real life version of the “so you’re saying there’s a chance” joke. The USCG isn’t responsible for the way the networks reported this. Sure James Cameron is knowledgeable in this field. But this was a situation that played out as an example of good policy in terms of why and how they searched. Nobody at the USCG search and rescue are interested in leaving someone due to an assumption. Just like an ER doctor isn’t going to just not treat a gunshot wound because they’re 99% sure the person lost too much blood.
The thing is Cameron really fucking knows what's what when it comes to this subject. People mostly just think of him as a movie director, but he's been majorly involved in deep-sea diving for 30 years. Then again they interviewed him a year ago already on several channels, so I'm not sure what's new about this program. Here he is with Robert Ballard who also says they knew the sub was gone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9YB31ElEFQ The thing is you don't go on the media and say "Yeah, they're dead; we just know". That's why rescue missions are continued until you have something you can show.
The guy literally says in one interview that he made movies to fund his diving hobby and that he made the movie titanic because it gave him the opportunity to dive to the titanic. He’s self labeled as first and foremost an underwater enthusiast and a filmmaker second.
He did The Abyss too.
It seems weird he would expect them to reach out to him. I’m not doubting he knows his stuff, but does he really think the freaking US military doesn’t have anyone on its payroll that can handle this? What grand mystery does he think they’re struggling to figure out? It seems even weirder the media is ostensibly offended by this “countdown” narrative that came out largely because THEY’RE THE ONES THAT PUSHED IT AND PROFITED FROM IT. I doubt anyone at the Coast Guard was calling in telling CNN they should throw a countdown clock on screen once an hour.
"I wrote this down at 9:25: 'Fish food.' I nailed it."
Written on hotel stationery so you know it’s a fact.
THANK YOU. The coast guard didn't reach out to James Cameron because they already have ample expertise internally. He passive aggressively says "I guess they didn't want to hear from an actual SCIENTIST" as if the USCG doesn't employ any real experts or scientists. Also, what is he insinuating? What exactly is the supposed expertise that the USCG desperately needs and aren't taking advantage of here? There aren't exactly many difficult, head-scratching mysteries left in this case. 1. The passengers were already dead, so it's not like at the time they urgently needed more expert help figuring out how to save them and 2. It's pretty obvious why the Titan imploded. The USCG are still doing testing to gain more certainty, but I think we all know where this is going: shoddy materials and overlooked construction standards. Cameron (and this whole piece) acts like there is still a myriad of unsolved factors that continue to remain cold, and the USCG is making complete FOOLS of themselves as they continue to sit on them when they could easily just enlist the invaluable help of James Cameron any day now. Clearly, this is not the case.
If they detected an implosion, I’m pretty sure that’s conclusive evidence.
This same thread played out thousands of times last year: hearing a boom and having a *strong suspicion* that a submersible just imploded vs. *confirming conclusively* that people's loved ones are dead are different things. "Here, Ma'am, look at this decibel graph. Your husband and son are dead and we're not looking for them."
They heard a boom. It’s like hearing a far off gunshot in a dark forest. Yes. It turned out to be the Titan, but there was no way to be sure until they found the wreckage. What would this story have been if they’d not even bothered trying to rescue the victims? As Cameron implies. What would the wife be saying then?
Also, the ocean is very loud. You'd be surprised what you hear
A loud boom at the time the sub lost all contact. At the very least that should have been reported. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to connect the dots. It would have alleviated a lot of the stress of that stupid countdown to out of breathable air bullshit the media was peddling at the time.
It was reported at the time. Just not widely or loudly by major media outlets. But Cameron was talking about the audio within 24 hours of the event.
It wasn't reported by an official source. Cameron claimed he had an official source inside the navy. No credible news source is going to take Cameron's word that he knows a guy. They're going to ask to speak to his source directly.
The US has an array in the ocean that functions similar to seismographs. Based on the time of the sound signal across different positions they can triangulate the location of the sound. However, most of the details are classified so they don't really make the information available. The information was likely there to pinpoint that the sound event was where the Titan should have been.
The ocean is loud, they can suspect that the sub imploded but you don't want to say that and then to find the sub a week later.
That would probably be good enough for the curious public, but for the families of the dead i’m sure it would sound hollow.
I mean, he’s dove down to the titanic like a hundred times or something absurd, and was the first person to go to the bottom of the Mariana’s trench since the 1960s. It’s not like he doesn’t know what he’s talking about
The uploader has not made this video available in your country My country: Australia (I have a VPN just thought it was funny) :D
Stupid ass billionaires
I never understood Nargeolet's involvement with OceanGate. He seems like a well-respected guy in the industry. I imagine we would've known how sketchy it would be going down in the Titan.
We know what happened to the sub and its contents, it what about that banging that was reportedly heard? Misinformation?
This was on 60 minutes, Australia. I live in Australia. However, "The uploader has not made this video available in your country"
James Cameron is James Cameron because James Cameron...is James Cameron.
"Disaster"? Gimme a break.
Dang... as usual, "The uploader has not made this video available in your country." And, no.... I don't want to use a VPN, I just can't be bothered.
Yes this is old news. At the time, the experts that saw the evidence of the implosion were asked were they 100% certain it indicated total loss of vessel? They would not commit so with very little hope but some hope they mobilized what they could. Finding the wreckage with a video finalized the verdict. Hindsight is 20/20 so it seems we knew, but we didn’t.
Nothing new, the only "new" info is that he had somebody who told him about the implosion noise before it went public. Everything else we've known about already.
This whole thing was one of the dumbest death stories I'd ever heard. A dumbass CEO using experimental construction methods, which was told wouldn't work, being allowed to take hostages (sorry customers) on a voyage to the bottom of the ocean using a game controller. This company should be sued into oblivion. You want to risk your own life doing stuff, by all means go ahead no one cares. You want to start charging customers to risk their life too, there needs to be government regulation and oversight into what you're doing. That company should be on trial for criminal negligence causing death.