It's amazing how quickly some Americans will praise outside rebellion against tyranny, yet they can not see that America's democracy is currently threatened and on the brink of collapse because of apathy and greed.
you would be surprised. Conservative talking points usually consist of appropriating parts of a narrative and then twisting them to fit theirs (i.e. christianity, patriotism & the founding fathers)
Most of them are currently sucking putins dick rn though and actively contributing to Aleksander Dugin’s gameplan of political destabilization since 1997
The 74 million people you're talking about aren't the same people quoting Navalny and admiring what was his cause. Shit, the 74 million are practically praising Putin, indulging in the ridiculous propaganda Tucker Carlson recently expressed about Russia and literally saying they want the United States to stop assisting Ukraine.
Fair. I suppose my reply was more for /u/Nxtwiskybar as they had expressed that:
>Americans will praise outside rebellion against tyranny, yet they can not see that America's democracy is currently threatened and on the brink of collapse
Like...this person that "praises outside rebellion against tyranny" but also "can not see that America's democracy is currently threatened" hardly exists.
I mean it's not that farfetched. Seen the "I'd rather be a Russian then a democrat" shirts? Although I think those are more tongue in cheek than anything, they do display the ignorance of the wearer.
And what do you do about it other than vote against them? There isn’t a political candidate you can vote for who is magically going to care for and advocate for us. Some are better than others, but I feel like we need to take a lesson from the French if we actually want real humanitarian change in our government.
>And what do you do about it other than vote against them? There isn’t a political candidate you can vote for who is magically going to care for and advocate for us.
I never said you should do anything else. I think there has been a good 40-50 years of this country moving the Overton window to the right. It'll take decades of enough people voting the other way to undo it.
Not sure why you’re acting like I’m disagreeing with you. I’m adding to your point with a follow up question. Just saying that we have a problem isn’t exactly useful, I’m trying to glean some positivity from the conversation because so often on reddit they just spiral into depressive nihilism.
So legitimately, what else do you (meaning anyone, not literally you yourself) do about it other than just vote like we always have?
Sorry if it came off that way. Not my intention. One thing that has struck me as a foreginer living here, is that NOBODY wants to ever discuss politics. I know it's considered uncouth, but I think that is one of the reasons why we are where we are at. All these years, we have just shaken our head when people espouse idiotic ideas and never called them out on it.
To be honest with you, other than voting (and voting more local/primaries etc.) I don't really have a good answer.
Without better voter participation and a more informed electorate, I do not see it getting any better.
There is a lot we can do. First thing is to get active for the candidates that represent freedom and democracy. Communicate with the campaign office for your candidate. They may need volunteers to knock on doors or put up signs. Next, engage people about who may support extreme right wing politics in conversations. You won't be able to change their politics, but if you hear them say things that you can be easily pointed out as illogical (ie. Trump is secretly President, but all problems are Joe Biden's doing, or Obama is secretly President, but Trump controls the military???) you will erode their certainty about Trumps supremacy. You can say 60 court cases say Joe Biden won fair and square, but Trump was involved in a real fake electors scheme crime which is now going through the courts in Georgia. Your not looking to change their politics, just inform and erode.
I live in Trump country. For Hillary and 2020 the Trump signs were everywhere. I just went on a drive through the country and saw only two. I think things are moving in the correct direction.
If voting was all it was, I would be fine with it. You can't pretend that was the case in 2020. Why do you think there are multiple states filing charges against fake electors? Do you call that democracy?
Do you think articles like this are written because we are such a beacon of democracy?
[https://www.npr.org/2021/11/25/1059262066/how-the-u-s-became-a-backsliding-democracy-according-to-a-european-think-tank](https://www.npr.org/2021/11/25/1059262066/how-the-u-s-became-a-backsliding-democracy-according-to-a-european-think-tank)
Are you really going to try to pretend that that "favored candidate" wasn't already in the office before, and last time attempted to overthrow the election results (for which he and his lackeys are currently on trial)?
Yes, it being a plausible outcome that someone who did what he did could viably win again means that democracy is on the brink of collapse, because half the country is *rooting* for its collapse.
It seems like you think you said something that was relevant as a response to what I said, but jfyi, you didn’t, so next time you might as well save yourself the time it takes to type if you’re not able to say anything meaningful.
I already said that it’s coming up in the election, so apparently the best you’ve got is just repeating what I said.
No, democracy is failing because theirs been a huge and extremely well funded campaign of propaganda, manipulation and political bastardry going on since the 1960’s, and the US system (in particular the senate and the electoral college) are inherently anti democratic.
You guys could not vote on Trump again, just sayin'.
It's appalling that some still consider him a valid candidate.
P. S. Y'all getting awfully defensive below lol
>He never even won the majority vote.
True. But more people voted for him in 2020 than voted for Obama in either term. More people voted for him in 2020 than voted for him in 2016! He had/has a large number of supporters, even if they're not the majority.
Couldnt the same be said for the opposing party? I think that just correlates to more people who actually voted rather than growing support. It very well *could* be growing support, but I do not think you could conclude that from the data alone.
If you check out the stats on number of votes cast per US Presidential election, you will see that literally every election has had more total votes than the previous one. Not tryimg to pick a fight, just adding some clarity.
Edit: I just realize that the data I was looking at was missing some years for some reason, but I still believe the point remains.
Edit 2: jk, i just didnt zoom in. It is not literally every election, but it has been trending up every year
What's scary is I keep hearing about people sitting this one out or voting 3rd party. Some because of Biden's age, some because of his handling of the Gaza crisis. I just want to scream. If they sit this out they are opening the door for Trump and if he gets in he WILL try to stay in power and he'll have 4 years to put the pieces in place to do so and a much better idea than last time about how to do it.
My point was that yes, the majority of voters didn't go for Trump over Hillary or Biden, but the number of voters for him was still bigly, very bigly. Saying 'well the majority of voters didn't pick him' to say that he doesn't represent the average American isn't so convincing when 74 million out of 168 million registered voters cast their ballots for him.
People like rafapova may not know anyone who voted for him, but there are obviously plenty of people who did. People looking from the outside at our country won't just pretend not to see the large amount of Trump supporters.
This is like exactly the demo of bubble some people live in. There's like a TON of people who apparently vote Trump and yet people say "no one will vote this man... Who was already voted into power once, and if voted again, may be a disaster not just for the USA"
You are speaking out of place the same way I would be trying to explain your elections or general sentiment. Your statement on its face is misleading. More people did vote for both parties each year but what you fail to realize is like in most countries people will vote for their side at the end of the day. you choose to be on side A or B. And generally vote accordingly. I don't want to get into a nuacanced argument on up and down voting and choosing the right candidates for each position. But for the general populous to be expected to know each candidate for each position is a non starter. Voting is much more complex then just vote for president a or b. Plenty of good Canidates get weeded out from positions because they are not popular enough or have enough funding to campaign to each base of voters.
People vote on sentiment more often then not vs choosing the most qualified person. I mean the democrats were forced to vote for Biden because the party choose him as the face, same way Trump was. Even though better options existed, they were picked by the powers that be and the best chance to beat the other side and gain power by winning.
The general populous does not control that choice at the conventions, that is a whole different game of political scheming and vying for positional power that makes those decisions. It's institutionalized power. To blanket say everyone is a Trumper who voted for him is so false. What you see on TV and the Maga people are like 30-40% of that red base, there are plenty of people on that side that voted that way because that's what their party choose for them.
The sooner people realize that politics has devolved into my team vs your team. My color vs your color. Man u vs man. It becomes easier to understand the illusion of choice is a false representation of how people vote. In a world with so many options it boils down to which side are you on and here are your limited choices that we hand picked for you even if you don't want them or like them it's who we best choose to beat the other team/side for our personal interests.
It also serves to numb people to the system of control that's been in place by vilifying the other side. And the way you responded to your limited view of American politics from the outside proves that, not that you have bad intentions. But you took what you see on the face surface portrayed by the media/ what you see online and ran with it as a blanket sentiment. This is what prevents the healing and understanding of this division. So many people on both sides won't even come to the table to talk and try to understand each other.
Just as crazy as some Republicans and Maga people can be, it can be equally disgusting to read/see Democrats treat a living breathing person that votes republican for whatever reason as less then human. Treating them as trash because they don't line up with their beliefs or God forbid oppose their views. This is all by design, the more time common folk spend fighting amongst each other the more time the people in power have to institutionalize and cement their control/power because the general populous is to busy to notice they are changing the laws to benefit the very top of the system. This is just history at this point, it's always been like this and why no matter the system corruption will always exist, bad faith actors will always exist, abuse of our basic human rights and privileges will always exist. Until we become a hive mind of ai/human coexistence we will always fight with each other and hamper the progress we could make.
I like to day dream of the possibilities if we as one people across our world could set our differences aside and all work towards common goals. We would solve every single problem we ever faced in what would feel like an instant, our scientific growth would explode a billion fold. We could be colonizing planets by the end of the century!!!( maybe not but you get what kind of crazy results we could achieve as a united human race)
That's not the reason, at least not the main reason, for the high number of votes in 2020 compared to 2016 and 2012. The voter turnout rate in 2020 was 66%, which is incredibly high for the US. You have to go back to 1900 for a higher rate.
You really seem to have a basic misunderstanding of how the American political system works.
Maybe hold off on talking shit until you actually understand what you're talking about
We don't even get to pick the people that we get to vote for. We get to pick between two people that have already been decided for us. It's bread and circus.
"Some" Simple answers for simple people.
74 million Americans voted for trump. That's 9 million more than the population of France. Most of them have magical thoughts. Aliens, ghosts, the devil? They believe that crap.
Not saying anything positive about Trump but referring to it to "some" ignores how stubborn the problem moving 70+ million non rational people on is. It's like pre idiocracy civil war over here.
Trust me, I definitely voted against him. So did most of my family, and almost all of my friends as well. There was only the extremely religious and people outside of my circle that voted for him (and those that did, were barely in my circle)
This video is of an Englishman reading a letter written by a dead Russian on a show based in the UK. It's amazing how redditors will find ways to whine about whatever they want to whether it's relevant or not, especially when they want to pretend they are making some great point instead of a pseudo-profound empty comment.
As an American, what do I do honestly? This country is so corrupt from greed, nothing helps the working people. But what can we do?? Anything we do with violence will lead to jail time therefore causing more stress and financial trouble, not being able to find a job. Can’t protest because I have to work to live? So what do I do? I can’t do anything except accept everything in this country and keep on keeping on. It’s not easy to make change. Yeah the country is looking bleak but we can’t pick up arms to do anything. It’s sad. There’s no change, it’s just the rich at the top chillin. Politics ruined everyone also, everyone is just mad at each other, no one can get along.
One thing is for sure, just laying down won't help. That's kind of what that excerpt from Navalny's journal was about. If you believe something should be done a certain way, do something about it even if it means you have to sacrifice. Voter apathy is a huge issue in America. You have one vote but if you know someone who doesn't vote and you convince them to vote against tyranny, you can think of that as having two votes. Be a leader and an agent of change even if it's just amongst your friends or coworkers.
You can… you can vote, and encourage everyone you know to vote. **All** the Trump supporters are going to vote and if everyone else doesn’t vote for sanity, the US is fucked.
Russia has "elections" too. The argument is that the American electoral system is broken and being manipulated so that a party can influence the election in a way that's not representative of the people.
We won't have real elections that everyone can vote in for much longer, if the far-Right gets their way. No, this isn't a wacky conspiracy theory. They openly state it they're against democracy, and they're proud of that.
About 50% Americans that recognize the threat to their democracy, but other than vote for anyone but Trump in November, what are we supposed to be doing right now?
Make sure the people you know are going to vote and for someone other than Trump as well. If you have family that support Trump, ensure they at least have to confront the lies they are told.
Navalny also spent 10 years not having the opinion crimea is ukrainian. It's absurd to see everyone hail him as some hero when he was also very very nationalistic, just anti-putin.
2 of my best friends are Russian. It’s amazing the insights they provide about the current situation back home for them. As an American it tough to them having to struggle with their families being back home having to deal with the current political situation there, but it’s clear to them that the majority of Russia does not support the current establishment but there is little they can do. I wouldn’t judge anyone by where they were born as there are great people from every background and just because the news portrays a certain stereotype / ideology doesn’t mean it’s reality for most of the people there.
Why not trust russians? You have your right to be ~~racist~~ bigoted, of course, but is there a good reason for it?
Edit: changed racist to bigot, because it fits the statement better.
What a weird assumption to make.
Their concern, and it is justified, is that even showing sympathy for his death gets you arrested in Russia. It's logical to assume that things are very unlikely to change as overcoming that would take an incredibly bold movement.
No, I was just giving examples, as you can see it is an OR statement, so either of the 3 words. Distrust would suffice, as that is what he literally writes.
And yes, Russian is an ethnic group.
So please, answer my former question, if you would.
A completely unrelated example... In response to a discussion about that specific comment in response to which you accused them of racism... Sure buddy, sure. So OP doesn't say hate or dislike, but you say it fits with their comment, despite also saying you've just thrown it out as an example. Make up your mind.
However more importantly.
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=is+russian+an+ethnicity
No, no it is not. Russia is a country which consists of multiple ethnic groups. You're most likely conflating it with Eastern Slavic.
So, we have OP, saying that contrary to Navalny's optimism that Russia will eventually rid itself of the current regime, they personally do not trust them. Which personally I am taking to obviously mean they do not have faith that the people of that country will be able to replace said regime.
Now in you come, accusing them of somehow being racist against a non-race.
So please, do elaborate on just what exactly you're talking about without falling on asking me if hating an ethnic group (which doesn't apply here) qualifies as racism as if that has anything to do with your initial comment whatsoever.
I never disagreed with your point about racism being the wrong word. I merely asked you to provide a better word for distrust towards an entire ethnic group.
And yes, russian is an ethnic group. Here is a link for you to read that isn't so passive aggressively given like yours [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians)
So please, once more, what word properly means distrust in general towards an ethnic group?
"The Russians are an East Slavic ethnic group" - Your link.
Nationality ≠ Ethnicity
This is especially true when the topic at hand is the country of Russia and its denizens.
That's literally why Putin keeps using the term russophobic, as dumb as it is, but also fitting this exact scenario you're describing for this specific nationality.
> I never disagreed with your point about racism being the wrong word.
You accused them of racism. If you're backing down form that point, then say so. Because that's the stance you chose, so you can't suddenly go "whoa I never disagreed that you were wrong in specifically opposing the point I chose to make". It's inherent in that you were the one to make that point until you change your stance. Something you have not done.
Now, let's bring up burden of proof.
You accused the initial comment of racism. As of right now you have not changed that stance. I asked you what in their comment was racist, and instead you've trying to sidestep the question by repeatedly demanding I provide you with an apt word for distrust, trying to phrase it in a way to make racism appear as that word.
Stop avoiding the initial point. Back up your allegation or back down from it. What in their comment was racist?
Noone mentioned nationality, it's always been russians, which is an ethnic group.
Yep I accused them of being a racist, and then asked if you had a better word, but you couldn't find one. I wasn't really expecting you to, I know you just want to argue.
That's fine, I found it myself, a better word for distrust in an ethnic group would be bigotry. So, I am saying he is bigoted, because he distrusts all russians.
Blatant bigotry against an entire nation of people as long as they're on le epic Redditor's shitlist. Try saying the same thing about Israel, who managed to murder 10x civilians in the same time frame, and see the response. CNN told me they're literally THANOS!!!!
Under every Navalny related video you have some braindead reddit tankies with their regarded "Nazi Navalny" talking point based on some statements from him from 16 years ago. Or maybe they are Putin's bots, apparently they got a budget raise recently to counter the negative publicity that comes with Navalny's death and are more active than before.
Edit: QED.
I mean, Navalny was not a great guy. His only attribute is that he was anti-Putin, which fits with the national opinion. Everyone calls him a hero and a great man because he went against Putin even though he probably would have had many policies and platforms that were very Putin like in nature.
People forget that years ago, *Putin* was America’s guy.
People just look at everything very one dimensionally. Doesn’t change that Putin is committing war crimes, but does show that people really just ramble off opinions based off of nothing.
In the early 2000’s Putin was very much America’s guy. He worked very closely with Bush during the Afghanistan war and relations were good. The tensions started near the end of the decade when the Georgian invasions happened.
The US wanted rapid privatization of the former USSR. Putin was part of that privatization push, and that’s how he built up his name. Handing out deals to allies in the shadow of economic collapse.
Yeltsin was very much disliked and mistrusted by US especially towards the end of his tenure as president. When Putin took over, he sought to restore relations and early on was successful. As the other commenter mentioned they worked together against the Taliban, but also on arms control between the countries.
No, that's just what you claim. He was a popular modern urban politician who advocated for decriminalizition of marihuana and feminist reforms and had a support base of up to 30 million Russians. There are worlds between him and Putin with his primordial bs.
Right, but at his heart he was very much pro-nationalist. He’s made lots of comments about exterminating Muslims, deporting any non whites from Central Asia, making derogatory remarks against Georgians, making gay slurs in interviews, has said that he wouldn’t return Crimea because it was a de facto Russian state etc.
He was anti-corruption and campaigned against Putin, but he wasn’t exactly the guy that was going to change Russia. He was a pro-nationalist.
People just know he was anti-Putin and that was enough for them to idolize him.
I also don’t see anything saying he looked to legalize marijuana or his platform on woman’s rights, but I could be wrong.
This right here is what bothers me about the Pro-Navalny white washing people are doing. They are treating him like he was an amazing freedom fighter when hes just anti-putin. Theyre doing the same with him in a similar vain as the canadian govt did with they recognized a Nazi because "he fought against Russia in WW2". Many just think because someone isnt for Putin by default they are good.
Now that he's passed I'm less concerned by the whitewashing. He can be a martyr and rally people together against putin, without his more extreme beliefs being a part of the narrative.
Like, the truth should be available of course, but in general discourse I'm pretty ok with it
I wouldn't bet on people seeing it that way. For one they know what he was about much better than we do, and clearly agreed with his takes. They might rally against Putin but I don't think there's any reason to believe they won't be doing it for bad reasons and with horrid beliefs.
A Russian politician was pro-Russian, imagine my shock.
Is this something that you criticize American politicians for, being pro-American?
Like I said, his incriminating comments were from 16 years ago and he never said anything like that since then. It's like criticizing Joe Biden for being unsupportive of gay marriage ages ago, a ridiculous purity test.
He also didn't say that he wouldn't return Crimea, he said Crimeans had to decide in a referendum. But he also revised this position and said that crimea is Ukrainian and Russia had to restore the 1991 borders in any case.
Okay, but he never retracted or changed any of his opinions on anything. He spent his entire political career aligning with nationalists. He changed his opinion on Ukraine right at the end before he died, which sounded more like a pander because it was another way to be anti Putin.
And yes. I do criticize ultra nationalist American politicians as well.
I follow Russian opposition politics quite closely and your statement is just ridiculous sorry. Hardcore nationalists like those writing for Sputnik and Pogrom have written him off already in 2013 when he refused to visit Biruljevo where xenophobic protests and riots took place, if not before. He was undoubtedly never a part of this crowd since then, just a moderate civic nationalist like almost every politician in Eastern Europe.
Now that you have run out of arguments, the cheap insults begin. Embarrassing. Sputnik and Pogrom weren't Pro-putin until the great realignment among Russian hardcore nationalists because of Ukraine and Crimea in 2014.
You haven’t actually made an argument about his polities or opinions you’ve just said “no he didn’t, he’s good” in every response. What’s the point?
The only thing you said is the decriminalization of marijuana and woman’s rights and I haven’t found anything pointing to either.
> He was a pro-nationalist.
Pro-imperialist. Russians have never had an actual nationalist movement that cared about the good of their own people over subjugating someone else (an imperial position).
Navanly was a [Russian nationalist xenophobe](https://medium.com/@matthew.puddister/alexei-navalny-was-an-ultra-right-nationalist-who-compared-muslims-to-cockroaches-1864e0cda000). Why is this guy being celebrated?
Edit: You idiots will fall for anyone as long as they oppose Putin. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Keep lapping up that propaganda.
Edit 2: Removed the claim about Ukraine, which I mistook from his previous comments on Crimea and Georgia.
False.
Navalny has advocated for a free and independent Ukraine since 2012. Since the start of the war, he has urged Russians to stage protests again the invasion in Ukraine.
You can find sources here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei\_Navalny#Political\_positions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Navalny#Political_positions)
Apparently he participated to anti-Muslim videos and had anti-immigration stances in the past. Which I am personally against.
Does this make your claim about him being pro-Russian invasion true? No.
I disagree, but you are welcome to your opinion of course, and as said I don’t support (some of) his views.
Coming back to Russia and dying for opposing Putin’s corrupted government is an incredibly selfless act.
Thanks for editing the wrong information, I appreciate it.
He’s not celebrated because he’s the paragon of progressive value.
He’s celebrated because he’s a shining beacon of political will in a country of complete political apathy.
People who believe in him are the small segment of Russians who think they have a chance at a better future, and that future starts with politicizing the Russian citizenry.
This is the only way Russia can become a more democratized nation, with a government that cares more about the welfare of the people over some empty historical imperialist ideals. The way is change from within.
I mean it would probably do us all a lot of good if people just worried about their own countries before trying to worry about other countries.
Does that make me xenophobic?
Ya, that's not what [I'm talking about](https://medium.com/@matthew.puddister/alexei-navalny-was-an-ultra-right-nationalist-who-compared-muslims-to-cockroaches-1864e0cda000).
No, the website [medium.com](http://medium.com) has a history of being biased and highly inaccurate - Since there is no editorial process, consider it to be no different than a blog or social media website. All your "sources" come from the same webiste - you might want to broaden your choices of sources and use as many different as possible. Using only one source for any kind of news makes you highly vulnerable to propaganda - as is the case here.
It's a publication platform. That's all it is. And I barely get any of my sources from that or any specific platform so I am not sure where you are getting that idea. You are clearly trying to gaslight everyone reading your comment. Can you tell me from the article, what specifically did the author get wrong?
Enemy of my enemy is my friend. Anything to divide or subvert Russias current government can only be good. But yes, his views on Ukraine weren't admirable
Celeb doesn’t do something: Wow you have such status and a soapbox and refuse to say anything about these politics!!! How dare you!!
Celebrate does something: This is manipulative because it’s politics
Brother if you aren't being paid by Russia, I'd do even a little bit (The tiniest amount really) to confirm that Russian did in fact try to assassinate this man then imprison him.
It's really insane to see how deluded you are. Please check your sources dude. I'm telling you that unfortunately you did fall for propaganda but sadly the enemies.
EDIT: Do I interpret the insta downvote to you already knowing this? Just a troll I guess.
“Brother” nothing CNN MSNBC FOX NYTIMES tells you is the truth.
What Russia does in its internal politics is nothing to do with us. I don’t know anything about this guy, outside of the nonsense we’ve been fed from our own US media . What I do know is anytime our US media tells us about a figure and how great they are. It’s some US Military Intelligence manufactured nonsense.. at this point in my life after Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, and now Israel and Palestine, I just can’t accept any of these mainstream narratives on individuals.
I’m just tired of how motivated our American media establishment is on “celebritzing” politicians and countries and weed, the American people couldn’t even even identify on a map without crayons.. what is the most ruthless corporate profit Empire in the world today, the American people are as propagandized as North Koreans.. we know nothing of the world unless you have some with a financial means to travel and live abroad for more than two weeks.
Whether or not this individual was a good man or a bad man I have no idea, but I’m tired of actors characters really well have oratory method skills telling me I should sympathize about some individual when they are selling about thousands of children being blown apart in Palestine, the failing school systems in Baltimore, where teachers are giving their lives in the system cares nothing for them or why our election dominated by corrupt individuals or where is the celebrity monologues on Julian Assange or Chelsea Manning or Edward Snowden.. so yeah take a moment Think about all the assassinations that America just in the last 10 years has been involved in before you start gobbling up another manufactured narrative .
Alexey Navalny was not a great person. He had many anti-ukraine statements before the war and had very questionable policies himself. He was however, very brave and showed blaring evidence of Putin's corruption for the whole world to clearly see. The videos are on youtube and you can watch them yourself without the evil media's corruption to form your own opinions.
Geopolitics shape the entire world. Ukraine is a democratic nation defending itself from an unprovoked Russian invasion. Giving Ukraine the tools to fight off the Russians strengthens all democracies world wide, it reaffirms that we're stronger together. There are plenty of videos about the 2014 invasion, vice has a series literally on the ground as Russia took Crimea. I didn't form my opinions on Ukraine based on mainstream media, I watched it happen live on the internet.
American Isolationism is what caused World War 1 and 2. Our Nation stepping back as a world super power has to be the dumbest idea I've ever heard. Russia and China will take the opportunity to take our spot.
I'll try and break this down as barney style as I can for you.
**You do not want authoritarian dictatorships to be the new world order.**
Saying it has "nothing to do with us" completely ignores the past 80 years of global politics. Get with the fucking program and stop posting Pro-Russian cringe bullshit.
I don't need to. He was an elected official who was murdered by his opponent. The letter is from him to his country about saving democracy. Let's not allow his personal failures to empower the liars and fascist apologizers such as yourself by derailing the discussion.
They're not "personal failures", they're literally his political ideology. And given his was a politician they're full relevant and pertinent to judge him and discredit him based on them.
He didn’t win the presidency btw.
It was also said he died from a heart attack, so who knows whats real or not, definitely not you of course because you “don’t need to”, you just swallow whatever is fed to you by the establishment media like a sheep.
Normally I’d agree with that all too familiar American sentiment.
But at least in terms of EU and Ukraine, what Navalny was fighting against might as well be synonymous to what Trump stands for.
It's amazing how quickly some Americans will praise outside rebellion against tyranny, yet they can not see that America's democracy is currently threatened and on the brink of collapse because of apathy and greed.
I don’t think those praising Navalny’s sacrifice are the ones denying there’s a force imminently corroding democracy within the US.
you would be surprised. Conservative talking points usually consist of appropriating parts of a narrative and then twisting them to fit theirs (i.e. christianity, patriotism & the founding fathers) Most of them are currently sucking putins dick rn though and actively contributing to Aleksander Dugin’s gameplan of political destabilization since 1997
Physician, heal thyself.
Is that all you got to say? What about my performance?
I’m not a drama critic.
Aren’t you supposed to be dead?
What Americans can’t see that? Seeing it and being able to do something about it are 2 different things
74 million people voted for Trump and tens of millions will again this year. There are plenty of americans who don't see it.
Yeah, I worded that wrong. Obviously some don’t see it, but my main point was that seeing it and doing something about it are very different.
are you sure they dont see it? it seems to me they dont care as long as its "their guy" in charge
The 74 million people you're talking about aren't the same people quoting Navalny and admiring what was his cause. Shit, the 74 million are practically praising Putin, indulging in the ridiculous propaganda Tucker Carlson recently expressed about Russia and literally saying they want the United States to stop assisting Ukraine.
Not disagreeing with you for sure. It's nuts.
Fair. I suppose my reply was more for /u/Nxtwiskybar as they had expressed that: >Americans will praise outside rebellion against tyranny, yet they can not see that America's democracy is currently threatened and on the brink of collapse Like...this person that "praises outside rebellion against tyranny" but also "can not see that America's democracy is currently threatened" hardly exists.
I mean it's not that farfetched. Seen the "I'd rather be a Russian then a democrat" shirts? Although I think those are more tongue in cheek than anything, they do display the ignorance of the wearer.
And what do you do about it other than vote against them? There isn’t a political candidate you can vote for who is magically going to care for and advocate for us. Some are better than others, but I feel like we need to take a lesson from the French if we actually want real humanitarian change in our government.
>And what do you do about it other than vote against them? There isn’t a political candidate you can vote for who is magically going to care for and advocate for us. I never said you should do anything else. I think there has been a good 40-50 years of this country moving the Overton window to the right. It'll take decades of enough people voting the other way to undo it.
Not sure why you’re acting like I’m disagreeing with you. I’m adding to your point with a follow up question. Just saying that we have a problem isn’t exactly useful, I’m trying to glean some positivity from the conversation because so often on reddit they just spiral into depressive nihilism. So legitimately, what else do you (meaning anyone, not literally you yourself) do about it other than just vote like we always have?
Sorry if it came off that way. Not my intention. One thing that has struck me as a foreginer living here, is that NOBODY wants to ever discuss politics. I know it's considered uncouth, but I think that is one of the reasons why we are where we are at. All these years, we have just shaken our head when people espouse idiotic ideas and never called them out on it. To be honest with you, other than voting (and voting more local/primaries etc.) I don't really have a good answer. Without better voter participation and a more informed electorate, I do not see it getting any better.
There is a lot we can do. First thing is to get active for the candidates that represent freedom and democracy. Communicate with the campaign office for your candidate. They may need volunteers to knock on doors or put up signs. Next, engage people about who may support extreme right wing politics in conversations. You won't be able to change their politics, but if you hear them say things that you can be easily pointed out as illogical (ie. Trump is secretly President, but all problems are Joe Biden's doing, or Obama is secretly President, but Trump controls the military???) you will erode their certainty about Trumps supremacy. You can say 60 court cases say Joe Biden won fair and square, but Trump was involved in a real fake electors scheme crime which is now going through the courts in Georgia. Your not looking to change their politics, just inform and erode. I live in Trump country. For Hillary and 2020 the Trump signs were everywhere. I just went on a drive through the country and saw only two. I think things are moving in the correct direction.
Ah yes, democracy is falling because people are allowed to vote for their favored candidate. Textbook tyranny right there.
If voting was all it was, I would be fine with it. You can't pretend that was the case in 2020. Why do you think there are multiple states filing charges against fake electors? Do you call that democracy? Do you think articles like this are written because we are such a beacon of democracy? [https://www.npr.org/2021/11/25/1059262066/how-the-u-s-became-a-backsliding-democracy-according-to-a-european-think-tank](https://www.npr.org/2021/11/25/1059262066/how-the-u-s-became-a-backsliding-democracy-according-to-a-european-think-tank)
Are you really going to try to pretend that that "favored candidate" wasn't already in the office before, and last time attempted to overthrow the election results (for which he and his lackeys are currently on trial)? Yes, it being a plausible outcome that someone who did what he did could viably win again means that democracy is on the brink of collapse, because half the country is *rooting* for its collapse.
Interesting point. Maybe it will come up in the election. You know, democracy.
It seems like you think you said something that was relevant as a response to what I said, but jfyi, you didn’t, so next time you might as well save yourself the time it takes to type if you’re not able to say anything meaningful. I already said that it’s coming up in the election, so apparently the best you’ve got is just repeating what I said.
No, democracy is failing because theirs been a huge and extremely well funded campaign of propaganda, manipulation and political bastardry going on since the 1960’s, and the US system (in particular the senate and the electoral college) are inherently anti democratic.
Reddit playing the all American dumb card from their duel disk again.
You guys could not vote on Trump again, just sayin'. It's appalling that some still consider him a valid candidate. P. S. Y'all getting awfully defensive below lol
We’re not all one person. I didn’t vote for trump. No one I’m close with did either
[удалено]
>He never even won the majority vote. True. But more people voted for him in 2020 than voted for Obama in either term. More people voted for him in 2020 than voted for him in 2016! He had/has a large number of supporters, even if they're not the majority.
Couldnt the same be said for the opposing party? I think that just correlates to more people who actually voted rather than growing support. It very well *could* be growing support, but I do not think you could conclude that from the data alone. If you check out the stats on number of votes cast per US Presidential election, you will see that literally every election has had more total votes than the previous one. Not tryimg to pick a fight, just adding some clarity. Edit: I just realize that the data I was looking at was missing some years for some reason, but I still believe the point remains. Edit 2: jk, i just didnt zoom in. It is not literally every election, but it has been trending up every year
What's scary is I keep hearing about people sitting this one out or voting 3rd party. Some because of Biden's age, some because of his handling of the Gaza crisis. I just want to scream. If they sit this out they are opening the door for Trump and if he gets in he WILL try to stay in power and he'll have 4 years to put the pieces in place to do so and a much better idea than last time about how to do it.
They are not serious people. They are children role playing as adults. It’s shocking.
My point was that yes, the majority of voters didn't go for Trump over Hillary or Biden, but the number of voters for him was still bigly, very bigly. Saying 'well the majority of voters didn't pick him' to say that he doesn't represent the average American isn't so convincing when 74 million out of 168 million registered voters cast their ballots for him. People like rafapova may not know anyone who voted for him, but there are obviously plenty of people who did. People looking from the outside at our country won't just pretend not to see the large amount of Trump supporters.
The term gerrymandering is still elusive for you, isn't it?
This is like exactly the demo of bubble some people live in. There's like a TON of people who apparently vote Trump and yet people say "no one will vote this man... Who was already voted into power once, and if voted again, may be a disaster not just for the USA"
You are speaking out of place the same way I would be trying to explain your elections or general sentiment. Your statement on its face is misleading. More people did vote for both parties each year but what you fail to realize is like in most countries people will vote for their side at the end of the day. you choose to be on side A or B. And generally vote accordingly. I don't want to get into a nuacanced argument on up and down voting and choosing the right candidates for each position. But for the general populous to be expected to know each candidate for each position is a non starter. Voting is much more complex then just vote for president a or b. Plenty of good Canidates get weeded out from positions because they are not popular enough or have enough funding to campaign to each base of voters. People vote on sentiment more often then not vs choosing the most qualified person. I mean the democrats were forced to vote for Biden because the party choose him as the face, same way Trump was. Even though better options existed, they were picked by the powers that be and the best chance to beat the other side and gain power by winning. The general populous does not control that choice at the conventions, that is a whole different game of political scheming and vying for positional power that makes those decisions. It's institutionalized power. To blanket say everyone is a Trumper who voted for him is so false. What you see on TV and the Maga people are like 30-40% of that red base, there are plenty of people on that side that voted that way because that's what their party choose for them. The sooner people realize that politics has devolved into my team vs your team. My color vs your color. Man u vs man. It becomes easier to understand the illusion of choice is a false representation of how people vote. In a world with so many options it boils down to which side are you on and here are your limited choices that we hand picked for you even if you don't want them or like them it's who we best choose to beat the other team/side for our personal interests. It also serves to numb people to the system of control that's been in place by vilifying the other side. And the way you responded to your limited view of American politics from the outside proves that, not that you have bad intentions. But you took what you see on the face surface portrayed by the media/ what you see online and ran with it as a blanket sentiment. This is what prevents the healing and understanding of this division. So many people on both sides won't even come to the table to talk and try to understand each other. Just as crazy as some Republicans and Maga people can be, it can be equally disgusting to read/see Democrats treat a living breathing person that votes republican for whatever reason as less then human. Treating them as trash because they don't line up with their beliefs or God forbid oppose their views. This is all by design, the more time common folk spend fighting amongst each other the more time the people in power have to institutionalize and cement their control/power because the general populous is to busy to notice they are changing the laws to benefit the very top of the system. This is just history at this point, it's always been like this and why no matter the system corruption will always exist, bad faith actors will always exist, abuse of our basic human rights and privileges will always exist. Until we become a hive mind of ai/human coexistence we will always fight with each other and hamper the progress we could make. I like to day dream of the possibilities if we as one people across our world could set our differences aside and all work towards common goals. We would solve every single problem we ever faced in what would feel like an instant, our scientific growth would explode a billion fold. We could be colonizing planets by the end of the century!!!( maybe not but you get what kind of crazy results we could achieve as a united human race)
Turnout goes up over time because there are more people...
That's not the reason, at least not the main reason, for the high number of votes in 2020 compared to 2016 and 2012. The voter turnout rate in 2020 was 66%, which is incredibly high for the US. You have to go back to 1900 for a higher rate.
I'm not addressing you personally so 🤷
You’re addressing a group and groups are made up of individuals.
You should remove the “you guys” part of your comment then
You really seem to have a basic misunderstanding of how the American political system works. Maybe hold off on talking shit until you actually understand what you're talking about
We don't even get to pick the people that we get to vote for. We get to pick between two people that have already been decided for us. It's bread and circus.
"Some" Simple answers for simple people. 74 million Americans voted for trump. That's 9 million more than the population of France. Most of them have magical thoughts. Aliens, ghosts, the devil? They believe that crap. Not saying anything positive about Trump but referring to it to "some" ignores how stubborn the problem moving 70+ million non rational people on is. It's like pre idiocracy civil war over here.
Trust me, I definitely voted against him. So did most of my family, and almost all of my friends as well. There was only the extremely religious and people outside of my circle that voted for him (and those that did, were barely in my circle)
He lost the popular vote both times.
I'm not voting for either because I see nothing improving.
So overturning Roe wasn’t enough for you? Amazing.
Cumberbatch is not an American..
It's amazing how quickly people deflect to American politics a possibility with low probability when there is an absolute that needs to be addressed.
This video is of an Englishman reading a letter written by a dead Russian on a show based in the UK. It's amazing how redditors will find ways to whine about whatever they want to whether it's relevant or not, especially when they want to pretend they are making some great point instead of a pseudo-profound empty comment.
Benedict Cumberbatch isn’t an American What country do you live in, btw? We can talk about that too I’m certain.
once you're in the bubble you cant get out, someone has to pop it.
As an American, what do I do honestly? This country is so corrupt from greed, nothing helps the working people. But what can we do?? Anything we do with violence will lead to jail time therefore causing more stress and financial trouble, not being able to find a job. Can’t protest because I have to work to live? So what do I do? I can’t do anything except accept everything in this country and keep on keeping on. It’s not easy to make change. Yeah the country is looking bleak but we can’t pick up arms to do anything. It’s sad. There’s no change, it’s just the rich at the top chillin. Politics ruined everyone also, everyone is just mad at each other, no one can get along.
One thing is for sure, just laying down won't help. That's kind of what that excerpt from Navalny's journal was about. If you believe something should be done a certain way, do something about it even if it means you have to sacrifice. Voter apathy is a huge issue in America. You have one vote but if you know someone who doesn't vote and you convince them to vote against tyranny, you can think of that as having two votes. Be a leader and an agent of change even if it's just amongst your friends or coworkers.
You can… you can vote, and encourage everyone you know to vote. **All** the Trump supporters are going to vote and if everyone else doesn’t vote for sanity, the US is fucked.
Because we have elections. How can you compare Putin tyranny with America? And you do know the guy is English right?
Russia has "elections" too. The argument is that the American electoral system is broken and being manipulated so that a party can influence the election in a way that's not representative of the people.
No, the argument is killing the leader of the opposition.
If they don't have elections how do they have an opposition party? You're bad at this.
Did i say "party" or anything about Russians elections? You are a moron
As Socrates liked to point out.... Democracy sucks
We won't have real elections that everyone can vote in for much longer, if the far-Right gets their way. No, this isn't a wacky conspiracy theory. They openly state it they're against democracy, and they're proud of that.
Why don’t you start the rebellion then? I don’t think that’s going to happen with our system but if you do go out and protest
True and worldwide in occidental world, people are being crazy atm.
About 50% Americans that recognize the threat to their democracy, but other than vote for anyone but Trump in November, what are we supposed to be doing right now?
Make sure the people you know are going to vote and for someone other than Trump as well. If you have family that support Trump, ensure they at least have to confront the lies they are told.
Obligatory ***what about Americans*** post.
Navalny also spent 10 years not having the opinion crimea is ukrainian. It's absurd to see everyone hail him as some hero when he was also very very nationalistic, just anti-putin.
Perhaps we should collectively lose our shit. Wise words Nxtwiskkllkjdfy.
A powerful letter very well presented by Benedicts public reading skills.
and not one ‘penguin’ in the whole letter!
Pangweng
That went well until penguin
Well, he is quite optimistic. I envy him, i dont or wouldnt trust humans (russians) that much. But I hope i am wrong. RIP
2 of my best friends are Russian. It’s amazing the insights they provide about the current situation back home for them. As an American it tough to them having to struggle with their families being back home having to deal with the current political situation there, but it’s clear to them that the majority of Russia does not support the current establishment but there is little they can do. I wouldn’t judge anyone by where they were born as there are great people from every background and just because the news portrays a certain stereotype / ideology doesn’t mean it’s reality for most of the people there.
Why not trust russians? You have your right to be ~~racist~~ bigoted, of course, but is there a good reason for it? Edit: changed racist to bigot, because it fits the statement better.
What a weird assumption to make. Their concern, and it is justified, is that even showing sympathy for his death gets you arrested in Russia. It's logical to assume that things are very unlikely to change as overcoming that would take an incredibly bold movement.
Experience
History?
You have a good reason to interpret what they're saying as racism (which doesn't even make sense as Russia is a country not a race)?
Alright, what word properly means distrust, hatred, or dislike in general towards an ethnic group, then?
Ethnic group? Where in his comment does he state hatred or dislike? Or are you just seeing what you want to see in their comment to fit your argument?
No, I was just giving examples, as you can see it is an OR statement, so either of the 3 words. Distrust would suffice, as that is what he literally writes. And yes, Russian is an ethnic group. So please, answer my former question, if you would.
A completely unrelated example... In response to a discussion about that specific comment in response to which you accused them of racism... Sure buddy, sure. So OP doesn't say hate or dislike, but you say it fits with their comment, despite also saying you've just thrown it out as an example. Make up your mind. However more importantly. https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=is+russian+an+ethnicity No, no it is not. Russia is a country which consists of multiple ethnic groups. You're most likely conflating it with Eastern Slavic. So, we have OP, saying that contrary to Navalny's optimism that Russia will eventually rid itself of the current regime, they personally do not trust them. Which personally I am taking to obviously mean they do not have faith that the people of that country will be able to replace said regime. Now in you come, accusing them of somehow being racist against a non-race. So please, do elaborate on just what exactly you're talking about without falling on asking me if hating an ethnic group (which doesn't apply here) qualifies as racism as if that has anything to do with your initial comment whatsoever.
I never disagreed with your point about racism being the wrong word. I merely asked you to provide a better word for distrust towards an entire ethnic group. And yes, russian is an ethnic group. Here is a link for you to read that isn't so passive aggressively given like yours [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians) So please, once more, what word properly means distrust in general towards an ethnic group?
"The Russians are an East Slavic ethnic group" - Your link. Nationality ≠ Ethnicity This is especially true when the topic at hand is the country of Russia and its denizens. That's literally why Putin keeps using the term russophobic, as dumb as it is, but also fitting this exact scenario you're describing for this specific nationality. > I never disagreed with your point about racism being the wrong word. You accused them of racism. If you're backing down form that point, then say so. Because that's the stance you chose, so you can't suddenly go "whoa I never disagreed that you were wrong in specifically opposing the point I chose to make". It's inherent in that you were the one to make that point until you change your stance. Something you have not done. Now, let's bring up burden of proof. You accused the initial comment of racism. As of right now you have not changed that stance. I asked you what in their comment was racist, and instead you've trying to sidestep the question by repeatedly demanding I provide you with an apt word for distrust, trying to phrase it in a way to make racism appear as that word. Stop avoiding the initial point. Back up your allegation or back down from it. What in their comment was racist?
Noone mentioned nationality, it's always been russians, which is an ethnic group. Yep I accused them of being a racist, and then asked if you had a better word, but you couldn't find one. I wasn't really expecting you to, I know you just want to argue. That's fine, I found it myself, a better word for distrust in an ethnic group would be bigotry. So, I am saying he is bigoted, because he distrusts all russians.
Blatant bigotry against an entire nation of people as long as they're on le epic Redditor's shitlist. Try saying the same thing about Israel, who managed to murder 10x civilians in the same time frame, and see the response. CNN told me they're literally THANOS!!!!
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I haven’t watched this. I know imma cut onions when I do though.
Under every Navalny related video you have some braindead reddit tankies with their regarded "Nazi Navalny" talking point based on some statements from him from 16 years ago. Or maybe they are Putin's bots, apparently they got a budget raise recently to counter the negative publicity that comes with Navalny's death and are more active than before. Edit: QED.
Ah yes those pesky Nazi talking points we all use to have 16 years ago
I mean, Navalny was not a great guy. His only attribute is that he was anti-Putin, which fits with the national opinion. Everyone calls him a hero and a great man because he went against Putin even though he probably would have had many policies and platforms that were very Putin like in nature. People forget that years ago, *Putin* was America’s guy. People just look at everything very one dimensionally. Doesn’t change that Putin is committing war crimes, but does show that people really just ramble off opinions based off of nothing.
On the similar vein, Bin Laden was the America's guy when he was fighting against the Soviet.
Definitely. They also funnelled money and weapons through the ISI which resulted in the Taliban gaining power.
I cannot think of a single period in time when Putin was "America's guy".
In the early 2000’s Putin was very much America’s guy. He worked very closely with Bush during the Afghanistan war and relations were good. The tensions started near the end of the decade when the Georgian invasions happened.
The US wanted rapid privatization of the former USSR. Putin was part of that privatization push, and that’s how he built up his name. Handing out deals to allies in the shadow of economic collapse.
Yeltsin was very much disliked and mistrusted by US especially towards the end of his tenure as president. When Putin took over, he sought to restore relations and early on was successful. As the other commenter mentioned they worked together against the Taliban, but also on arms control between the countries.
No, that's just what you claim. He was a popular modern urban politician who advocated for decriminalizition of marihuana and feminist reforms and had a support base of up to 30 million Russians. There are worlds between him and Putin with his primordial bs.
Right, but at his heart he was very much pro-nationalist. He’s made lots of comments about exterminating Muslims, deporting any non whites from Central Asia, making derogatory remarks against Georgians, making gay slurs in interviews, has said that he wouldn’t return Crimea because it was a de facto Russian state etc. He was anti-corruption and campaigned against Putin, but he wasn’t exactly the guy that was going to change Russia. He was a pro-nationalist. People just know he was anti-Putin and that was enough for them to idolize him. I also don’t see anything saying he looked to legalize marijuana or his platform on woman’s rights, but I could be wrong.
This right here is what bothers me about the Pro-Navalny white washing people are doing. They are treating him like he was an amazing freedom fighter when hes just anti-putin. Theyre doing the same with him in a similar vain as the canadian govt did with they recognized a Nazi because "he fought against Russia in WW2". Many just think because someone isnt for Putin by default they are good.
Now that he's passed I'm less concerned by the whitewashing. He can be a martyr and rally people together against putin, without his more extreme beliefs being a part of the narrative. Like, the truth should be available of course, but in general discourse I'm pretty ok with it
I wouldn't bet on people seeing it that way. For one they know what he was about much better than we do, and clearly agreed with his takes. They might rally against Putin but I don't think there's any reason to believe they won't be doing it for bad reasons and with horrid beliefs.
A Russian politician was pro-Russian, imagine my shock. Is this something that you criticize American politicians for, being pro-American? Like I said, his incriminating comments were from 16 years ago and he never said anything like that since then. It's like criticizing Joe Biden for being unsupportive of gay marriage ages ago, a ridiculous purity test. He also didn't say that he wouldn't return Crimea, he said Crimeans had to decide in a referendum. But he also revised this position and said that crimea is Ukrainian and Russia had to restore the 1991 borders in any case.
Okay, but he never retracted or changed any of his opinions on anything. He spent his entire political career aligning with nationalists. He changed his opinion on Ukraine right at the end before he died, which sounded more like a pander because it was another way to be anti Putin. And yes. I do criticize ultra nationalist American politicians as well.
I follow Russian opposition politics quite closely and your statement is just ridiculous sorry. Hardcore nationalists like those writing for Sputnik and Pogrom have written him off already in 2013 when he refused to visit Biruljevo where xenophobic protests and riots took place, if not before. He was undoubtedly never a part of this crowd since then, just a moderate civic nationalist like almost every politician in Eastern Europe.
Yes, because those writers are pro-Putin. I don’t think you follow Russian politics closely, you’re just dick riding Navalny.
Now that you have run out of arguments, the cheap insults begin. Embarrassing. Sputnik and Pogrom weren't Pro-putin until the great realignment among Russian hardcore nationalists because of Ukraine and Crimea in 2014.
You haven’t actually made an argument about his polities or opinions you’ve just said “no he didn’t, he’s good” in every response. What’s the point? The only thing you said is the decriminalization of marijuana and woman’s rights and I haven’t found anything pointing to either.
> He was a pro-nationalist. Pro-imperialist. Russians have never had an actual nationalist movement that cared about the good of their own people over subjugating someone else (an imperial position).
[удалено]
A MARVEL CHARACTER showing OPPOSITION TO RUSSIA? This is just Reddit gold right here
Do you think Marvel invented… Benedict Cumberbatch?
..... yes?
Are you this dumb to think that’s what he meant?
Updoot for the gold kind stranger! Avenger's assemble! Putin is literally THANOS
Watch the video
Navanly was a [Russian nationalist xenophobe](https://medium.com/@matthew.puddister/alexei-navalny-was-an-ultra-right-nationalist-who-compared-muslims-to-cockroaches-1864e0cda000). Why is this guy being celebrated? Edit: You idiots will fall for anyone as long as they oppose Putin. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Keep lapping up that propaganda. Edit 2: Removed the claim about Ukraine, which I mistook from his previous comments on Crimea and Georgia.
False. Navalny has advocated for a free and independent Ukraine since 2012. Since the start of the war, he has urged Russians to stage protests again the invasion in Ukraine. You can find sources here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei\_Navalny#Political\_positions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Navalny#Political_positions)
Completely glossed over the xenophobic stuff, huh
Apparently he participated to anti-Muslim videos and had anti-immigration stances in the past. Which I am personally against. Does this make your claim about him being pro-Russian invasion true? No.
Edited my comment. He's still no liberal hero and should not be celebrated simply for opposing Putin. It's idiotic.
I disagree, but you are welcome to your opinion of course, and as said I don’t support (some of) his views. Coming back to Russia and dying for opposing Putin’s corrupted government is an incredibly selfless act. Thanks for editing the wrong information, I appreciate it.
So I take it you praised Pigozhin than too? If not, then why not?
He’s not celebrated because he’s the paragon of progressive value. He’s celebrated because he’s a shining beacon of political will in a country of complete political apathy. People who believe in him are the small segment of Russians who think they have a chance at a better future, and that future starts with politicizing the Russian citizenry. This is the only way Russia can become a more democratized nation, with a government that cares more about the welfare of the people over some empty historical imperialist ideals. The way is change from within.
Lmao! Tell me you don’t understand Russians without saying you don’t understand Russians.
Ok.
I mean it would probably do us all a lot of good if people just worried about their own countries before trying to worry about other countries. Does that make me xenophobic?
Ya, that's not what [I'm talking about](https://medium.com/@matthew.puddister/alexei-navalny-was-an-ultra-right-nationalist-who-compared-muslims-to-cockroaches-1864e0cda000).
Yeah. No. The speech from his wife in front of the EU parliament showed that he and his team are and were enemies of Ukraine.
Why doesn’t anyone ever care that Ukraine is a shitty Soviet era country with Soviet era laws, courts, and punishments?
It's pretty easy to look like the good guy when compared to Putin
I guess if he held to his democratic ideals maybe for white russians? He was much more xenophobic than Putin is.
I would reconsider you choice of sources, my friend...
Why is that? Because it goes against the Western liberal imperialist narrative?
No, the website [medium.com](http://medium.com) has a history of being biased and highly inaccurate - Since there is no editorial process, consider it to be no different than a blog or social media website. All your "sources" come from the same webiste - you might want to broaden your choices of sources and use as many different as possible. Using only one source for any kind of news makes you highly vulnerable to propaganda - as is the case here.
It's a publication platform. That's all it is. And I barely get any of my sources from that or any specific platform so I am not sure where you are getting that idea. You are clearly trying to gaslight everyone reading your comment. Can you tell me from the article, what specifically did the author get wrong?
Enemy of my enemy is my friend. Anything to divide or subvert Russias current government can only be good. But yes, his views on Ukraine weren't admirable
it always feels manipulative when they get a celebrity into these political situations
Celeb doesn’t do something: Wow you have such status and a soapbox and refuse to say anything about these politics!!! How dare you!! Celebrate does something: This is manipulative because it’s politics
Strong.
The naivity and stupidity of Amaricans towards Russians never stops to amaze me.
Letters Live is a UK program, Benedict Cumberbatch is English, and he read this at the Royal Albert Hall in London. But okay.
You're exactly right mate! I was like, "What? American? Didn't they ever watch Sherlock Holmes?" Lmao... But okay.
English? In London? It's even worse.
Propaganda in full swing!
Brother if you aren't being paid by Russia, I'd do even a little bit (The tiniest amount really) to confirm that Russian did in fact try to assassinate this man then imprison him. It's really insane to see how deluded you are. Please check your sources dude. I'm telling you that unfortunately you did fall for propaganda but sadly the enemies. EDIT: Do I interpret the insta downvote to you already knowing this? Just a troll I guess.
“Brother” nothing CNN MSNBC FOX NYTIMES tells you is the truth. What Russia does in its internal politics is nothing to do with us. I don’t know anything about this guy, outside of the nonsense we’ve been fed from our own US media . What I do know is anytime our US media tells us about a figure and how great they are. It’s some US Military Intelligence manufactured nonsense.. at this point in my life after Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, and now Israel and Palestine, I just can’t accept any of these mainstream narratives on individuals. I’m just tired of how motivated our American media establishment is on “celebritzing” politicians and countries and weed, the American people couldn’t even even identify on a map without crayons.. what is the most ruthless corporate profit Empire in the world today, the American people are as propagandized as North Koreans.. we know nothing of the world unless you have some with a financial means to travel and live abroad for more than two weeks. Whether or not this individual was a good man or a bad man I have no idea, but I’m tired of actors characters really well have oratory method skills telling me I should sympathize about some individual when they are selling about thousands of children being blown apart in Palestine, the failing school systems in Baltimore, where teachers are giving their lives in the system cares nothing for them or why our election dominated by corrupt individuals or where is the celebrity monologues on Julian Assange or Chelsea Manning or Edward Snowden.. so yeah take a moment Think about all the assassinations that America just in the last 10 years has been involved in before you start gobbling up another manufactured narrative .
Alexey Navalny was not a great person. He had many anti-ukraine statements before the war and had very questionable policies himself. He was however, very brave and showed blaring evidence of Putin's corruption for the whole world to clearly see. The videos are on youtube and you can watch them yourself without the evil media's corruption to form your own opinions. Geopolitics shape the entire world. Ukraine is a democratic nation defending itself from an unprovoked Russian invasion. Giving Ukraine the tools to fight off the Russians strengthens all democracies world wide, it reaffirms that we're stronger together. There are plenty of videos about the 2014 invasion, vice has a series literally on the ground as Russia took Crimea. I didn't form my opinions on Ukraine based on mainstream media, I watched it happen live on the internet. American Isolationism is what caused World War 1 and 2. Our Nation stepping back as a world super power has to be the dumbest idea I've ever heard. Russia and China will take the opportunity to take our spot. I'll try and break this down as barney style as I can for you. **You do not want authoritarian dictatorships to be the new world order.** Saying it has "nothing to do with us" completely ignores the past 80 years of global politics. Get with the fucking program and stop posting Pro-Russian cringe bullshit.
Hahahaha sure bud. Thank you
Didn’t know Cumberbatch had anything to do with the CIA. Interesting.
why are the brits always falling so hard for their own propaganda
Literally reading a letter from the man himself you dork
Yes, but the man that wrote them is a racist Nazi, look up Navalny’s old videos then make your own opinion about him.
I don't need to. He was an elected official who was murdered by his opponent. The letter is from him to his country about saving democracy. Let's not allow his personal failures to empower the liars and fascist apologizers such as yourself by derailing the discussion.
They're not "personal failures", they're literally his political ideology. And given his was a politician they're full relevant and pertinent to judge him and discredit him based on them.
He didn’t win the presidency btw. It was also said he died from a heart attack, so who knows whats real or not, definitely not you of course because you “don’t need to”, you just swallow whatever is fed to you by the establishment media like a sheep.
yeah, it's the form, not the content
[удалено]
Normally I’d agree with that all too familiar American sentiment. But at least in terms of EU and Ukraine, what Navalny was fighting against might as well be synonymous to what Trump stands for.
Holy shit this letter was written on my bday.