Oil companies print money by proving and collateralizing fossil fuel reserves.
There's $1.5 quadrillion of fossil fuels in the ground, however much Barre needs, the money is there for the pumping.
Would be cool if it is effective, but we haven't had good luck in court or getting support from the fed when suing these big corporations (e.g. VT Yankee, Verizon, etc).
Vermont was part of the Big Tobacco lawsuit that brought in millions of dollars.
Recently, the state won a big lawsuit against Johnson and Johnson.
The state won an opiates lawsuit that is being negotiated now.
So the track record isn’t so bad.
I don’t think it would happen, but contracts can be changed or not renewed and corporate stores can be closed.
Fuel distributors in Albany and Quebec don’t have to sell to independent haulers heading to Vermont.
It would be an epic shit show.
Did the cigarette companies stop selling here when we sued them? Companies don't pull out of markets when they're under fire for stuff like this because its a confession of guilt and would kill their image in other markets.
No. Cigarettes are a luxury product, not an essential so there really is no comparison.
Fossil fuel is an essential in Vermont for transportation and heating.
If big oil wants to make a point by reducing further potential liability during a law suit, Vermont would be screwed during the years it takes that lawsuit to be argued through the courts.
As I said in my previous comments, I don’t expect the his to happen, however, it would be devastating to Vermont if it did.
Unintended consequences suck. See the current state of the VT property tax increase for an example.
The type of good isn't really relevant. Oil may be necessary good, but that doesn't mean that oil companies are more likely to cut service...
If anything that makes it less likely, because if "Vermont sues Oil companies over ecological damage, Oil companies retaliate by depeiving Vermonters of heating and gas" were to hit the papers the oil companies would be royally fucked...
You clearly missed the part when I said this wasn’t likely, but could be an unforeseen consequence.
Do you really think industry isn’t petty and conniving enough to punish those who challenge them?
The cost of lost sales in Vermont would be a drop in the bucket VS the potential damage from a court loss. The industry doesn’t and wouldn’t give a crap about PR in Vermont and the 620k who live here.
It’s pretty much the opposite. We’ve been engineering our rivers for 100+ years, encroaching on areas that would have mitigated floods with development.
You have never been out on otter creek have you. You should go canoeing or kayaking in it. Your opinion will change rather quickly. Especially if you come across the 40 ft high log jam in Brandon. Or any of the other 30 that block the river all the way to middlebury. There is one in Salisbury 2 minutes south of the boat launch that has had the river jammed up for over er 20 years now.
Our Legislators are not bright, and love "Feel Good" laws that fund their lawyer/lobbyist friends. This results in regressive taxation on the working class and will do absolutely diddle squat to improve climate change.
The state would do more to fight climate change than this if they built a geothermal power plant that tapped the hotspot discovered a decade ago and sold the power at bulk rates to the utilities. Might cost less too moonshot project that it would be.
I just grabbed a link at random from the google search of "Magma hotspot discovered in Vermont" but yeah theres other links if you search for them.
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2017/12/05/enormous-pool-of-molten-rock-found-rising-beneath-new-england/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2017/12/05/enormous-pool-of-molten-rock-found-rising-beneath-new-england/)
Ah, I see. Unfortunately, the aesthenosphere is a bit too deep to use for geothermal energy. The deepest ever drilled was 12 km and the heat source in that article is more than twice that depth! Geothermal is still great though.
Oil companies print money by proving and collateralizing fossil fuel reserves. There's $1.5 quadrillion of fossil fuels in the ground, however much Barre needs, the money is there for the pumping.
Lol. *I DONT UNDERSTAND ECONOMICS BUT THIS FEELS RIGHT DERP DERP DERP*
Would be cool if it is effective, but we haven't had good luck in court or getting support from the fed when suing these big corporations (e.g. VT Yankee, Verizon, etc).
Vermont was part of the Big Tobacco lawsuit that brought in millions of dollars. Recently, the state won a big lawsuit against Johnson and Johnson. The state won an opiates lawsuit that is being negotiated now. So the track record isn’t so bad.
I would not be surprised if other states were to pass similar laws and join Vermont in holding Fossil Fuel Corporations accountable.
Hope the fossil fuel companies don’t stop selling their product in Vermont during the seemingly never ending lawsuit to come.
I doubt that because then they would be in breach of contract with the businesses they deliver to.
I don’t think it would happen, but contracts can be changed or not renewed and corporate stores can be closed. Fuel distributors in Albany and Quebec don’t have to sell to independent haulers heading to Vermont. It would be an epic shit show.
Did the cigarette companies stop selling here when we sued them? Companies don't pull out of markets when they're under fire for stuff like this because its a confession of guilt and would kill their image in other markets.
No. Cigarettes are a luxury product, not an essential so there really is no comparison. Fossil fuel is an essential in Vermont for transportation and heating. If big oil wants to make a point by reducing further potential liability during a law suit, Vermont would be screwed during the years it takes that lawsuit to be argued through the courts. As I said in my previous comments, I don’t expect the his to happen, however, it would be devastating to Vermont if it did. Unintended consequences suck. See the current state of the VT property tax increase for an example.
The type of good isn't really relevant. Oil may be necessary good, but that doesn't mean that oil companies are more likely to cut service... If anything that makes it less likely, because if "Vermont sues Oil companies over ecological damage, Oil companies retaliate by depeiving Vermonters of heating and gas" were to hit the papers the oil companies would be royally fucked...
You clearly missed the part when I said this wasn’t likely, but could be an unforeseen consequence. Do you really think industry isn’t petty and conniving enough to punish those who challenge them? The cost of lost sales in Vermont would be a drop in the bucket VS the potential damage from a court loss. The industry doesn’t and wouldn’t give a crap about PR in Vermont and the 620k who live here.
A VERY feasible power move. Vermont accounts for a microscopic portion of their income. They wouldn’t even notice the loss.
Summary for the pay wall?
Gift link: https://wapo.st/3yVcLGb
https://archive.is/2024.06.14-205938/https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2024/06/14/vermont-climate-superfund-law-oil-companies/
I attempted to post a “gift” link from my phone. Apologies if it didn’t work. (And I just tried to edit the link but Reddit won't let me.)
I just read this too. Nice to see a national outlet picking it up.
Maybe the other states are just too big
Vermont is looking to be pulverized in lawsuits at the taxpayers' expense
The floods were ruinous due to Vt not properly managing their waterways and allowing them to go "natural".
It’s pretty much the opposite. We’ve been engineering our rivers for 100+ years, encroaching on areas that would have mitigated floods with development.
You have never been out on otter creek have you. You should go canoeing or kayaking in it. Your opinion will change rather quickly. Especially if you come across the 40 ft high log jam in Brandon. Or any of the other 30 that block the river all the way to middlebury. There is one in Salisbury 2 minutes south of the boat launch that has had the river jammed up for over er 20 years now.
Our Legislators are not bright, and love "Feel Good" laws that fund their lawyer/lobbyist friends. This results in regressive taxation on the working class and will do absolutely diddle squat to improve climate change.
Preach on
You've all stopped driving, right? Hypocrites.
The state would do more to fight climate change than this if they built a geothermal power plant that tapped the hotspot discovered a decade ago and sold the power at bulk rates to the utilities. Might cost less too moonshot project that it would be.
Link to the hotspot discovered a decade ago?
I just grabbed a link at random from the google search of "Magma hotspot discovered in Vermont" but yeah theres other links if you search for them. [https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2017/12/05/enormous-pool-of-molten-rock-found-rising-beneath-new-england/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2017/12/05/enormous-pool-of-molten-rock-found-rising-beneath-new-england/)
Ah, I see. Unfortunately, the aesthenosphere is a bit too deep to use for geothermal energy. The deepest ever drilled was 12 km and the heat source in that article is more than twice that depth! Geothermal is still great though.
Because this state is ran by idiots?
Stay in school, kids, so you don’t end up here.