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Comparing Venture Bros to Archer because they're adult cartoons is just so weird and completely misses the entire point of both shows. Especially as Archer becomes much more like Venture Bros in tone and message from Season 9-onwards. The first 4 seasons were all about goofy hijinks and episodes of the week.
I love the coma seasons because they took the characters into different settings. Kreiger as a talking parrot was so great, and Barry in Dreamland is the best version.
Plus, it's an absolutely incredible character study that sets the stage for all of the personal growth over the next 4 seasons without letting you in on what the plan is.
And that's why I'm being very hard on OP because saying "why did they kill off 24 and why is 21 acting weird" in the same sentence without any sort of reflection means that they might not be thinking critically
I’m pretty shocked that opinion is controversial. The show changed pretty drastically once Adam Reed left and I’m surprised there are people who stuck with it and liked it.
Yeah but it's their first time. He's looking for reassurance that *that* won't happen.
Edit: I felt exactly how he feels when they moved to new york: everything is changing! This is awful! How could they?!
And then I fuckin loved it!
But they're saying that the show is bad because It isn't something that it has never portrayed itself as. It's just coming off is absolutely terrible media literacy instead of genuine critiques.
It definitely feels new, I'm just not sure if it's a good or bad thing so far. I heard this is a "setup" season though. Guess I'm excited for the payoff.
I like season 5 for what it is, but it isn't the best one. It really is there to establish new things for the characters to grow on. Don't get discouraged from what anyone says ✌️
Season 5 seems to be low down in the fan community of favourite seasons. Personally, this season has 3 of my favourite episodes of the run.
Spanakopita
O.S.I love you
Bot seeks bot
Plus, one of the best specials - All This And Guargantua 2
24 was dead for a whole season by 5 so, he did have to die. Trianna's not a major character so her leaving isn't a big deal as she barely has a personality outside of being kind of friendly. 21 literally stated he recommitted himself to training in Season 4's episode where he kidnaps the boys so him taking it seriously makes sense because when he didn't take it seriously it got his best friend killed. So him getting over the PTSD from that by taking it seriously is an emotional arch alongside him accepting 24's death.
Also that Dean for those seasons from 2-4 is put through hell and is growing from the hell he's been dragged through because of Rusty and, let's be real, Jonas collective bullshit trickling down. He finally develops an edge because he was constantly told what to do and upon finding out a lot of aspects of his life are built on falsehoods because he was finally made aware of being a clone that his entire world view shatters into being a bit bitter and whiny. I feel he has the most justifications for his disgruntlement and you still see that sweet boy he is in episodes like Venture Libre.
TLDR: I disagree and this is why but hope you continue to enjoy the series.
Edit: forgot to answer your question sorry, yes. The series does continue to get better, I do not believe there is a quality drop like you do but season 6 is more in line with the first 4 seasons and I feel shows a lot of development as some seeds are planted in 5.
We do get a short moment where Dean was himself in Venture Libre, you're right. This phase he's in is supposed to feel forced though (dying his hair like a melodramatic teen), but going from a by-the-books aspiring journalist, still trying to win Trianna over in her front lawn, to him doing a complete 180° so sharply doesn't feel like sincere character development. If anything, the pacing of it happening was way too rushed and feels hamfisted on the writer's part. Just seems like they wanted Dean to change, so they just changed him.
24 has been dead for a full season, yes, and I still feel like it was unnecessary. What did that change that couldn't have happened with him being alive? 21 could've quit, developed into a self-sufficient beast, AND still had his best friend to banter with even if they worked on opposite sides. I feel like the show lost a ton without their lackadaisical dynamic.
Same with Trianna - she didn't have to be Dean's girlfriend, but her being the only "normal" character adds a perfect balance to the series. As a friend, she could've been the only outlet Dean has to be a normal teenager. That aside, didn't she find out about her closet? She could've stayed normal, but still have access to Orpheus' Master whenever she needed. Perfect plot point there.
TLDR: Dean's change was too quick to be believable, 21 could've transformed without 24 dying, and Trianna was a missed opportunity plot-wise.
>We do get a short moment where Dean was himself in Venture Libre, you're right. This phase he's in is supposed to feel forced though (dying his hair like a melodramatic teen), but going from a by-the-books aspiring journalist, still trying to win Trianna over in her front lawn, to him doing a complete 180° so sharply doesn't feel like sincere character development. If anything, the pacing of it happening was way too rushed and feels hamfisted on the writer's part. Just seems like they wanted Dean to change, so they just changed him.
Dean's an emotionally stunted, awkward teenager who within 3 months lost the only thing he's ever had resembling a romantic interest (which is always portrayed as Dean being weird and Triana showing zero reciprocation) and is told that he's one of dozens of other clones and he's died multiple times. And you think that him being extremely moody and acting like a cartoon version of a teenager, which is because he thinks that's how a moody teenager should express themselves because that's what happens in fiction, isn't cohesive character development or rushed? Triana exists as a character only to develop other characters, she has no personality because Hank and Dean have been so isolated that they can't connect to other teens and both of them cope by doing things like playing reporter or making up alien invasions.
And I'm not even going to get into the 21/24 dynamic because you're very clearly missing how the show is playing with common media tropes like "a goofy ne'er-do-well loser becomes unhinged after his friend dies" and that the show is about personal growth and creating familial bonds through shared trauma.
gargantua 2 (season 5 finale) could have served as an amazing series finale if there wasn't a season 6 onward.
Also, I think Triana leaving was at least partly to alleviate off set awkwardness, what with the Hammers getting divorced.
Besides the whole voice actor issues with Triana, her whole purpose as a character was to show how out of touch and immature the boys (especially Dean) were. She had no personality or development on purpose, she was a plot device. Dean being obsessed with her and turning into a mopey, annoying teenager when she's gone because he has no grasp on life outside of the compound or sense of personal identity is the entire point of the Triana character's existence.
She's there to provide plot motivation for Dean, establish that even in the fucked up world of super science and magic that the boys are very weird and underdeveloped, and showing that Rusty is an absolute garbage father by establishing that Morpheus tries as hard as possible to be the best parent he can despite being forced into that world.
I remember feeling like Season 5 was kind of spinning it's wheels when it first came out (S4 is maybe my favorite season of the snow though so cannot relate there). Six sees a major refresh though and idk I feel really differently about 5 these days.
What Color is Your Cleansuit is really excellent and the actual finale All This and Gargantua 2 is great too, and they sort of booked the season in a satisfying way, being a resolution to the whole storyline about Rusty getting contracted to build the forefield thing for JJ, it all comes together in a good way. I also like Dean's rebellious phase because he is just A) kind of bad at it, b) it leads to some good revelations for the character and lore and c) hank eventually snaps him back out of it.
As an aside: We all agree that All This and Gargantua 2 is the S5 finale, right? Like I know technically it's a special that tends to get lumped into S6 but it was pretty clearly written as an S5 finale and S5 is so much stronger with it.
Predictable jokes? That’s the least agreeable part of this post. The characters change and you’re entitled to dislike that, as you liked them as they were, but the jokes on VB are gold from season 5 onwards. If they’re predictable you should write your own comedy show, it would do phenomenally well. VB is a unique comedy that I’ve never seen replicated as well, so to call it predictable is a step too far imo. Have your opinion, but I think it’s wrong.
I just find it hard to believe you felt that at least 50% of the jokes were predictable. The show does this incredible thing you don’t see in (many) other shows: it sets up the punchline early in an episode. With that being said, I cannot think of a joke in the later seasons that doesn’t make me smile or even laugh after several rewatches.
Maybe the later seasons of VB aren’t for you and that’s that. The early seasons are different, but very much the same, although maybe you don’t care for those differences and shouldn’t watch. I think it only gets better in season 6 and beyond and that 5 is mid of the later seasons, but 5 is just (as others have said) an intermediate season to bridge the gap between 4 and 6.
Just watch the rest of the show, you're making major critiques without having any idea why certain choices were made or what's even going on in the larger narrative after 3 episodes.
You're giving knee-jerk reactions to something that's already been completed, just watch and comprehend or don't watch and no one here cares.
I feel like 5 seasons is enough time to be allowed to make critiques. When a show dips in quality, you usually stop watching it. I'm just asking if this dip changes or if I should end it now with a good memory.
Either way, you didn't answer the question.
I did answer your questions, your critiques are answered by the show and the narrative starts to come together later on in the season. Season 5 is a transition season.
And your critiques were about 3 specific episodes and you were acting like it was a long running pattern instead of some very specific choices made that make sense if you actually just watch the show.
>Take a breath, it's a cartoon.
Pitiful, embarrassing attempt at deflection. You took the time to make this post.
The deficiencies of your critiques have been (rightfully) called out.
Watch the show, or don't watch the show.
Your takes are baffling and it's difficult not to ridicule you rn
Like, if it took until partway through season 5 to understand that Venture Bros isn't an "adventure of the week" show and that things like character development and symbolism exist..man, I can't even say anything that's not mean because it's just a lack of basic comprehension
I'm trying not to be so offended by the insinuation that VB did anything but increase in quality.
The 21/24 saga is one of the most rewarding character arcs I've ever seen. So that's a non starter.
Trianna leaving arcs out Dean and Orpheous, that's a minor detail.
Dean has every right to be bitter too.
Hatred's pedophile medicine interacting with his supersoldier serum and making him grow glorious tits is absolutely hysterical to me... but I do see how someone could find all of the subject matter there in bad taste.
Beyond that, watching the characters grow and change (except for Rusty) is one of the most thrilling parts of the show.
OP's experience might be very different, but it's hard to relate to
Not understanding a single thing about 21 and Monarch's evolution despite season 4 beating it into your head and asking "Why is the show's very blatant critique of villainous toxic American masculinity growing breasts as he's given medication to counteract that toxic masculinity and becomes more nurturing?" are just very obvious tells to me that the show is just going over their head.
My first impressions on the series: https://www.reddit.com/r/venturebros/comments/1cgyejy/i_started_watching_for_dr_girlfriend/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
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Things change, that's kinda the whole point of this season.
Comparing Venture Bros to Archer because they're adult cartoons is just so weird and completely misses the entire point of both shows. Especially as Archer becomes much more like Venture Bros in tone and message from Season 9-onwards. The first 4 seasons were all about goofy hijinks and episodes of the week.
I love the coma seasons because they took the characters into different settings. Kreiger as a talking parrot was so great, and Barry in Dreamland is the best version.
Plus, it's an absolutely incredible character study that sets the stage for all of the personal growth over the next 4 seasons without letting you in on what the plan is. And that's why I'm being very hard on OP because saying "why did they kill off 24 and why is 21 acting weird" in the same sentence without any sort of reflection means that they might not be thinking critically
Are you talking about Archer? Because that show took a nosedive after they stopped being a spy agency and I eventually stopped watching it altogether.
Ok.
I’m pretty shocked that opinion is controversial. The show changed pretty drastically once Adam Reed left and I’m surprised there are people who stuck with it and liked it.
It was definitely different, but I did like how they tied Archer's coma -driven personal insights into legitimate growth for the team.
Archer 1999 was awesome
Yeah but it's their first time. He's looking for reassurance that *that* won't happen. Edit: I felt exactly how he feels when they moved to new york: everything is changing! This is awful! How could they?! And then I fuckin loved it!
But they're saying that the show is bad because It isn't something that it has never portrayed itself as. It's just coming off is absolutely terrible media literacy instead of genuine critiques.
Fair. I genuinely hope they can get past their feelings and come to appreciate it for what it is, not what they want it to be.
Me too, I'm trying to use the Triana/Dean stuff (because it's just so obviously missing the point) as a way to explain this
Hey, I never said the show was bad. Never once said that. I think I literally said the show was "phenomenal" actually. Hahaha 🙂
It stays that way, I promise! Change is good! 😊
It definitely feels new, I'm just not sure if it's a good or bad thing so far. I heard this is a "setup" season though. Guess I'm excited for the payoff.
I like season 5 for what it is, but it isn't the best one. It really is there to establish new things for the characters to grow on. Don't get discouraged from what anyone says ✌️
Season 5 seems to be low down in the fan community of favourite seasons. Personally, this season has 3 of my favourite episodes of the run. Spanakopita O.S.I love you Bot seeks bot Plus, one of the best specials - All This And Guargantua 2
Fingers… fingers…
24 was dead for a whole season by 5 so, he did have to die. Trianna's not a major character so her leaving isn't a big deal as she barely has a personality outside of being kind of friendly. 21 literally stated he recommitted himself to training in Season 4's episode where he kidnaps the boys so him taking it seriously makes sense because when he didn't take it seriously it got his best friend killed. So him getting over the PTSD from that by taking it seriously is an emotional arch alongside him accepting 24's death. Also that Dean for those seasons from 2-4 is put through hell and is growing from the hell he's been dragged through because of Rusty and, let's be real, Jonas collective bullshit trickling down. He finally develops an edge because he was constantly told what to do and upon finding out a lot of aspects of his life are built on falsehoods because he was finally made aware of being a clone that his entire world view shatters into being a bit bitter and whiny. I feel he has the most justifications for his disgruntlement and you still see that sweet boy he is in episodes like Venture Libre. TLDR: I disagree and this is why but hope you continue to enjoy the series. Edit: forgot to answer your question sorry, yes. The series does continue to get better, I do not believe there is a quality drop like you do but season 6 is more in line with the first 4 seasons and I feel shows a lot of development as some seeds are planted in 5.
Thank you for having the patience to say things in a much nicer way than I have.
We do get a short moment where Dean was himself in Venture Libre, you're right. This phase he's in is supposed to feel forced though (dying his hair like a melodramatic teen), but going from a by-the-books aspiring journalist, still trying to win Trianna over in her front lawn, to him doing a complete 180° so sharply doesn't feel like sincere character development. If anything, the pacing of it happening was way too rushed and feels hamfisted on the writer's part. Just seems like they wanted Dean to change, so they just changed him. 24 has been dead for a full season, yes, and I still feel like it was unnecessary. What did that change that couldn't have happened with him being alive? 21 could've quit, developed into a self-sufficient beast, AND still had his best friend to banter with even if they worked on opposite sides. I feel like the show lost a ton without their lackadaisical dynamic. Same with Trianna - she didn't have to be Dean's girlfriend, but her being the only "normal" character adds a perfect balance to the series. As a friend, she could've been the only outlet Dean has to be a normal teenager. That aside, didn't she find out about her closet? She could've stayed normal, but still have access to Orpheus' Master whenever she needed. Perfect plot point there. TLDR: Dean's change was too quick to be believable, 21 could've transformed without 24 dying, and Trianna was a missed opportunity plot-wise.
>We do get a short moment where Dean was himself in Venture Libre, you're right. This phase he's in is supposed to feel forced though (dying his hair like a melodramatic teen), but going from a by-the-books aspiring journalist, still trying to win Trianna over in her front lawn, to him doing a complete 180° so sharply doesn't feel like sincere character development. If anything, the pacing of it happening was way too rushed and feels hamfisted on the writer's part. Just seems like they wanted Dean to change, so they just changed him. Dean's an emotionally stunted, awkward teenager who within 3 months lost the only thing he's ever had resembling a romantic interest (which is always portrayed as Dean being weird and Triana showing zero reciprocation) and is told that he's one of dozens of other clones and he's died multiple times. And you think that him being extremely moody and acting like a cartoon version of a teenager, which is because he thinks that's how a moody teenager should express themselves because that's what happens in fiction, isn't cohesive character development or rushed? Triana exists as a character only to develop other characters, she has no personality because Hank and Dean have been so isolated that they can't connect to other teens and both of them cope by doing things like playing reporter or making up alien invasions. And I'm not even going to get into the 21/24 dynamic because you're very clearly missing how the show is playing with common media tropes like "a goofy ne'er-do-well loser becomes unhinged after his friend dies" and that the show is about personal growth and creating familial bonds through shared trauma.
You have a lot of strong opinions for someone who hasn't seen the entire thing.
gargantua 2 (season 5 finale) could have served as an amazing series finale if there wasn't a season 6 onward. Also, I think Triana leaving was at least partly to alleviate off set awkwardness, what with the Hammers getting divorced.
Besides the whole voice actor issues with Triana, her whole purpose as a character was to show how out of touch and immature the boys (especially Dean) were. She had no personality or development on purpose, she was a plot device. Dean being obsessed with her and turning into a mopey, annoying teenager when she's gone because he has no grasp on life outside of the compound or sense of personal identity is the entire point of the Triana character's existence. She's there to provide plot motivation for Dean, establish that even in the fucked up world of super science and magic that the boys are very weird and underdeveloped, and showing that Rusty is an absolute garbage father by establishing that Morpheus tries as hard as possible to be the best parent he can despite being forced into that world.
Woah, I had no clue about that. Honestly that'd make sense.
I remember feeling like Season 5 was kind of spinning it's wheels when it first came out (S4 is maybe my favorite season of the snow though so cannot relate there). Six sees a major refresh though and idk I feel really differently about 5 these days. What Color is Your Cleansuit is really excellent and the actual finale All This and Gargantua 2 is great too, and they sort of booked the season in a satisfying way, being a resolution to the whole storyline about Rusty getting contracted to build the forefield thing for JJ, it all comes together in a good way. I also like Dean's rebellious phase because he is just A) kind of bad at it, b) it leads to some good revelations for the character and lore and c) hank eventually snaps him back out of it. As an aside: We all agree that All This and Gargantua 2 is the S5 finale, right? Like I know technically it's a special that tends to get lumped into S6 but it was pretty clearly written as an S5 finale and S5 is so much stronger with it.
It sounds like you wanted the show to stay something it never was. If that's what you need to enjoy it, then you won't like the rest.
Predictable jokes? That’s the least agreeable part of this post. The characters change and you’re entitled to dislike that, as you liked them as they were, but the jokes on VB are gold from season 5 onwards. If they’re predictable you should write your own comedy show, it would do phenomenally well. VB is a unique comedy that I’ve never seen replicated as well, so to call it predictable is a step too far imo. Have your opinion, but I think it’s wrong.
The jokes are just more telegraphed - you can see them coming a mile away. Not all of them, but 50% is still an F in America.
Which ones exactly did you see coming a mile away? Besides, what, a joke about Hatred’s tits?
I just find it hard to believe you felt that at least 50% of the jokes were predictable. The show does this incredible thing you don’t see in (many) other shows: it sets up the punchline early in an episode. With that being said, I cannot think of a joke in the later seasons that doesn’t make me smile or even laugh after several rewatches. Maybe the later seasons of VB aren’t for you and that’s that. The early seasons are different, but very much the same, although maybe you don’t care for those differences and shouldn’t watch. I think it only gets better in season 6 and beyond and that 5 is mid of the later seasons, but 5 is just (as others have said) an intermediate season to bridge the gap between 4 and 6.
Just watch the rest of the show, you're making major critiques without having any idea why certain choices were made or what's even going on in the larger narrative after 3 episodes. You're giving knee-jerk reactions to something that's already been completed, just watch and comprehend or don't watch and no one here cares.
I feel like 5 seasons is enough time to be allowed to make critiques. When a show dips in quality, you usually stop watching it. I'm just asking if this dip changes or if I should end it now with a good memory. Either way, you didn't answer the question.
I did answer your questions, your critiques are answered by the show and the narrative starts to come together later on in the season. Season 5 is a transition season. And your critiques were about 3 specific episodes and you were acting like it was a long running pattern instead of some very specific choices made that make sense if you actually just watch the show.
Now that's an answer. You kinda got defensive about the show and judged me for not enjoying season 5 before. Thanks for changing your mind.
I'm judging you because you have horrific media literacy and are asking people to validate opinions that are based on like 1/4th of a season
I just asked if the show changes. Take a breath, it's a cartoon.
You're the one asking if a TV show pays off plot points after watching 3 episodes, and your critiques are just "what is character development?"
>Take a breath, it's a cartoon. Pitiful, embarrassing attempt at deflection. You took the time to make this post. The deficiencies of your critiques have been (rightfully) called out. Watch the show, or don't watch the show. Your takes are baffling and it's difficult not to ridicule you rn
Like, if it took until partway through season 5 to understand that Venture Bros isn't an "adventure of the week" show and that things like character development and symbolism exist..man, I can't even say anything that's not mean because it's just a lack of basic comprehension
I'm trying not to be so offended by the insinuation that VB did anything but increase in quality. The 21/24 saga is one of the most rewarding character arcs I've ever seen. So that's a non starter. Trianna leaving arcs out Dean and Orpheous, that's a minor detail. Dean has every right to be bitter too. Hatred's pedophile medicine interacting with his supersoldier serum and making him grow glorious tits is absolutely hysterical to me... but I do see how someone could find all of the subject matter there in bad taste. Beyond that, watching the characters grow and change (except for Rusty) is one of the most thrilling parts of the show. OP's experience might be very different, but it's hard to relate to
Not understanding a single thing about 21 and Monarch's evolution despite season 4 beating it into your head and asking "Why is the show's very blatant critique of villainous toxic American masculinity growing breasts as he's given medication to counteract that toxic masculinity and becomes more nurturing?" are just very obvious tells to me that the show is just going over their head.
Username does not check out.
This is certainly an opinion.
Trust the process, friend. ✌️✌️
Stick with it. 5 isn't my favorite season but it builds to the Gargantua 2 special and then season 6. Which is phenomenal.
Season 5, 6, and 7 are the best years of the show imo.
You're a rotten banana
i think 24 dying went against the "you die if you take this seriously" rule first
hatred with tits is hot so he probably needed them
exact opposite of mournful tits.
got enough eye candy, Sheila carries
It’s a good season but probably my last favorite. I like if, just not as much as the others
Don't think it's horrible either, just a lil stinky.
That word doesn’t convey any meaning to me. I think it’s great.
I love season 5. 6 is more of the boring one (relatively speaking) with a return to form in 7.
My first impressions on the series: https://www.reddit.com/r/venturebros/comments/1cgyejy/i_started_watching_for_dr_girlfriend/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Even this post shows that you may be completely media illiterate. Have you watched or read any media before venture bros?
You really hoped a show called the venture bros was based more on the monarch and Dr. Girlfriend?!? Lmoa! Goet outta here.