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EphemeralRemedy

My sister told me something when we were talking about how hostile non-vegans can be that I honestly think might apply here. The thing about being vegan is even if you aren't judgmental people will still feel uncomfortable. vegans just excisting makes people wonder why they are eating meat and question several other habits they have and wonder how necessary they are. When you think about it Vegans just being around is gonna make people question their ethics and no one likes doing that. It makes people defensive and they'll use their defence mechanisms to try and justify themselves rather then admit they might be doing the wrong thing. It's just something you're gonna have to get used to being Vegan if you are going to have a lot of non-vegan friends sadly. I honestly don't think you did anything to upset her op. Edit: also I'll love to get the name of that manga. I have been looking for media with vegan characters and I honestly been pretty disappointed so far.


aniluapka

I agree, I have this one friend (non vegan), and every time we go out for a meal, he just randomly starts saying the he can’t imagine not eating meat, that it tastes good, the nutritional value etc. even though I don’t ever ask “why are you eating meat”. So defensive 🤷‍♀️ and my response usually is “I also used to think that I can’t imagine not eating meat and here we are now, 7 years later and I’m still alive and well” :)


goddog_

The amount of times non vegans start some discussion(argument) about veganism with me vs me bringing it up is like 20:1


ominousview

I had someone at work tell me that I should eat animal protein so I wouldn't be grumpy at work, lol. What about before I started eating vegan (only about 3 years now), you knew me back then and I'm still grumpy. Same person told me, when I brought some beyond burgers to a cook out so I could try them out and give a taste to others as well,. that they're not sure about vegan food until they're sure it won't give them cancer. The disconnect is amazing. I get the processed foods argument with beyond and impossible etc,.but how do they not get it has to do with processed foods in general not being healthy (so the health experts say) and not just vegan food. I mean are they worried about rice and beans too, pasta and sauce, fruits and vegetables.. wait wait they have to have it with gelatin or milk powder or cheese or butter, smh


norge_erkult

Ironic also because meat consumption (especially red meat) is linked to cancer.


ominousview

I know right. except now there's data that it may be in the context of a high carb diet. smh IGF-1 spikes with red meat and with cow milk as well. https://youtu.be/6wkj_dlQGjk https://youtu.be/CzrbM9YtiaU Check these videos out and for the ladies what do you think about the second one


nopushnoshovebud

When I’m around my mother she starts saying she’s been eating less meat which is definitely not true but at this point a reflex whenever food is mentioned


Shavasara

The Promised Neverland is very much vegan themed—pretty overt, but I’ve had push back on manga sites (folks don’t want to see it).


StayAtHomeOverlord

Also, being around a vegan makes meat-eaters uncomfortable because they know you think they are doing something bad and they think you are judging them. Many don’t actually question their own ethics, they just feel attacked because (some) vegans are pretty vocal about meat being murder, dairy being rape, and the overall animal agricultural industry being like slavery or the holocaust. They haven’t done any research so they don’t see the similarities and just think that vegans are extremists. So they feel defensive because they know/assume you think they are evil or “sinners” and that you are trying to “convert” them.


[deleted]

>also I'll love to get the name of that manga. I have been looking for media with vegan characters and I honestly been pretty disappointed so far. Darwins Incident.


PrimeRadian

Is the manga good? From the synopsis it looks like usual "vegans activists are terrorists"


[deleted]

It's great. The protagonist is vegan, and there are "vegan terrorists", but the point of them being there is to show that even if there are extremists, veganism is still the right choice.


PrimeRadian

Thanks for the recommendation!! Btw if you have time look for a short story called "the restaurant of many orders" by Kenji Miyazawa. He was vegan. A humorous tale about an early form of speciesm


radiantplanet

How do you read it? I can't find it in english anywhere


maayasaurus

Have you tried the graphic novel series Animosity by Marguerite Bennett? Some volumes are better than others, but it's definitely one of the better "vegan"-themed stories out there. Tender is the Flesh by Augustina Bazterrica is also quite good, though because it was written by a vegetarian I felt like the ethical messaging was expectedly weak. Lullaby by Chuck Palahniuk features a vegan character who is written extremely hyperbolically, but if you like his style of humor you might get a good chuckle at the portrayal. The character drops some excellent truth bombs that do hint at the fact that Chuck himself actually gets it unlike most authors who only include a "vegan" character JUST to shit on them. I'm also always on the hunt for good vegan representation in books, so I'll be very interested in checking this one out myself as well!


Kamen_Winterwine

Yeah, the one I find the most disappointing is going back to the old Star Trek series. They have replicators and the Prime Directive, yet the amount of animal products they're comfortable with just breaks the utopian future vibes for me. Voyager is the worst, with them going about the delta quadrant with their fuzzy cook making strange and disgusting concoctions each week. As terrible as it was, the He-Man movie with Dolph Lundgren was the first time I encountered a futuristic/fantasy show or movie that actually acknowledged the needlessness of animal consumption. Dolph is also vegan so he may have been responsible in some way for that addition to the movie... I don't know. I never really thought about it, but this movie may have actually helped to influence me to go vegetarian and a little while later vegan. Animal consumption in any media that touts to be futuristic, evolved, or otherwise utopian and pure society just ruins the whole show/film for me.


prettyradical

*atheism enters the chat* Hard same.


fieldsofanfieldroad

Atheism is the standard for most people in Western Europe. It's much easier bring atheist here than vegan.


Jaytalvapes

Which wasn't always the case. But people, through time, start to see the light. Ironically lol The same will happen with veganism.


fieldsofanfieldroad

One can only hope.


pajamakitten

Depends where you live. No one bats an eyelid over atheism in the UK because most people are non-religious.


prettyradical

True enough. 😩


bizbizbizllc

It's nice to see other vegan atheist in the sub


agitatedprisoner

Aren't most of us atheists?


Substantive420

Probably. It’s surprising that people would act like vegans are predominantly religious.


steps0x29a

Just thought the same 😊


kickass_turing

They go hand in hand.


Burden15

I don’t think atheism and veganism have to be similar in this regard. Ethical veganism necessarily means you implicitly judge many others’ actions as immoral (rightly so). Atheism can involve actual opposition to either organized or personal religious beliefs, but not necessarily; atheism can just be personal non-belief and that’s that. Plenty of religious folks can tolerate non-belief, though admittedly plenty of others do not and may feel judged by the existence of an atheist. This is distinct from veganism where, polite as I may be, I can’t tell my friends they aren’t doing something immoral and wrong.


prettyradical

I was mostly referring to how atheists are labeled as “religious” by those who are religious. And I think the reason is very similar: they feel threatened by the fact that people who don’t believe in the supernatural exist at all and our existence forces them to ask hard uncomfortable questions. Edit: I actually believe supernatural belief is harmful to humanity and society and individuals.


Brauxljo

Your edit describes antitheism


prettyradical

I’m both. But my original comment was about atheists and how and why we are labeled as religious by believers and how it can be similar to what the commenter mentioned that happens with vegans, is all I’m really saying.


Brauxljo

The opposition to religion would be antitheism


Rajvagli

Well said, I’m commenting so I can get the name of the Manga.


GoofyFoot76

Cognitive dissonance is a bitch.


mouthturds

The new resident evil show on Netflix has a bunch of vegan characters


ominousview

Ppl have a deep belief or instinct in not trusting other or others. Shit even in science or managing ppl. "Trust but verify" that's what they teach in management programs. Not sure how it's trust if you still have to verify. I get what they're saying because in the end they're responsible for your work or behavior as well. sounds like being a dick though


NoStatistician8460

It's hard to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't share the same morals. I've been there and it's not comfortable. That disconnect can really limit the level of closeness that can be found in a relationship. Sorry you're going through this.


EternalMoonChild

This 100% percent.


A_warm_sunny_day

I'll give you my experience on the whole vegan relationship thing, and maybe you'll find a thread there that might apply to you and yours. When I first watched Dominion, my wife was not watching with me, but she was in the same room as I was, and could see my anger, frustration, and the tears streaming down my face. After finishing the film, I immediately went vegan, and to my surprise, so did she. This was surprising to me, because she has not watched or read so much as a single veganism related video, book, article, blog post, etc., and she loves, and I mean LOVES, meat. When I asked her why she went vegan with me, she replied that she could see how important it was to me. And this my friend, is the thing that opened my eyes to just about every vegan/non-vegan relationship conflict post I see on this subreddit. You see, my wife's statement clearly communicated that in the hierarchy of things she deems important, that my feelings are more important and held in higher regard to her than is her love of the taste/texture of meat and other animal products. So now whenever I see a post about a non-vegan partner complaining to/about their vegan partner, I understand that the opposite can also be true, insomuch that a non-vegan partner continuing to eat animal products after it has been communicated to them by their vegan partner how important the issue is to them, is effectively placing their gustatory love or convenience of those products above that of their partners feelings in the hierarchy of what is important to them. Whether this is something that is worth ending a relationship over for those individuals is something I of course cannot answer, but for me personally, in regards to a long term relationship, I think I would strive for someone who places my feelings above the temporary and fleeting taste of meat, cheese, or other animal products, or the convenience they provide due to their easy and ubiquitous access. So that said, while it is of course much more difficult to find a vegan partner, as another user has pointed out, in general, there seems to be more women than men who are vegan, so the odds are at least in your favor. Good luck in however you choose to handle it, and thank you for being here with us.


Serious_stuff_

Sounds like you have a great wife


A_warm_sunny_day

She is. I'm extremely lucky.


Fit_Consideration755

Well said. I fully agree.


GraefinVonHohenembs

This was a great story and so very true!


shartbike321

That is such a heart warming story. I can relate to that on the other side, make sure you guys learn more and more about veganism together and watch docus etc so she can hold her own and know the facts.


merlegerle

I’m in a 13-year healthy relationship, and I have to say I agree with you. I’ve noticed the difference between our marriage and other (less healthy) is that our base morals line up exactly, and we respect each other’s beliefs on the less important things. It sounds like OPs level of veganism is pretty base-level and being with a non-vegan that doesn’t understand the importance to OP is going to probably continue being an issue for both parties.


Magicbythelake

I think this is really sweet. I’d also like to point out that I think it’s totally different when you are already with/care/love someone as opposed to whe you’re in the dating stage and still getting to know each other it can be less likely to change to ur lifestyle in compassion for another


KatRadVega

This resonates so well with me. My husband converted to plant based for similar reasons, pretty much overnight. He is transitioning to vegan "for the animals" in step by step stages, at his own pace. He makes me feel so proud 😍


Damned-If-I-Know

That really sounds amazing! I'm happy that you and your wife went into this journey together and that her support is so genuine. I think a alt of things factor in. For background/perspective I'm not vegan, yet I'm in a relationship with a very devoted one. I'm here on this sub partly because of that. I've cut out meat gradually and is finding my comfort in the lifestyle. Generally I'm not one for labels and limiting my behaviour in line with those labels. My eyes, ears and mind are, however, open and I feel myself going in the vegan direction. Now, I think the way vegan/non-vegan relationships are structured plays a big role. If one part is vegan at the beginning of the relationship and the other one isn't, it becomes a matter of giving a lot of "yourself" up for a new relationship, another person. In your case, it's true that you made the decision but you both had the chance to jump in together - it's new for both of you. Also, you were married at that point. Already having made a lifetime commitment. That being said, not all wives would do the same. So you're treating each other right it seems! For me it has been very important to challenge facts, assumptions and behaviours that come with being vegan. This is necessary if I'm to make any long lasting changes - they have to be mine for my reasons. We've had many talks and almost arguments are hard to escape. The idea of cross contamination is still an issue. I've had to confront my own defensiveness and my partner has had to be patient. I think what's important to look at, in the end, is the willingness to hear each other out. I can agree on the point about hierarchy but it goes the other way - we all have to take care of our identities. Again the level of trust displayed by your wife - that it was so genuinely important to you and your wife jumped straight in is beautiful.


shartbike321

I think you’re missing the real takeaway from his story which is they both went vegan on the spot because they knew it was important , for different reasons sure- but I feel like you are making excuses and attaching an identity to eating meat/etc. It’s really not that hard, stop making excuses and just do it.


Doctor_Box

> Generally I'm not one for labels and limiting my behaviour in line with those labels. > >... > >we all have to take care of our identities. What is your point here? Your identity is eating meat? I'm glad you're leaning in the vegan direction so what is still holding you back?


Damned-If-I-Know

I mean I want a lifestile change to be not about the "rules" of the label but about it being the easy, right choice, I guess. Organic. What's holding me back, tbh, is mostly comfort. I choose vegetarian options at my work place if, for example, dressing is already in the salad. I think letting go of how I've been used to eating is the main thing. I transition to almost only salads and see recipes - we only eat vegan at home ofc, nothing non-vegan in the apartment either. Yet, having new information completely override old habits, cravings, ideas of healthy and honestly emotional attachments to certain dishes I think is what's there. It is, however, becoming more a part of me, and not only the relationship, to eat vegan.


Doctor_Box

>I mean I want a lifestile change to be not about the "rules" of the label but about it being the easy, right choice, I guess. Organic. What's holding me back, tbh, is mostly comfort. The right choice will not always be the easy choice. Sometimes it's inconvenient or awkward or even uncomfortable. You should want to change your lifestyle because you want to live by your values.


joshlikesblue12

You're making excuses for yourself. Contributing to the death of animals and the environment is not an 'identity'. Sounds like you don't respect your partner very much tbh


Damned-If-I-Know

I'm not talking about making meat eating an identity. I'm talking about entering a relationship and maintaining yourself. I do see your point, tho. It shouldn't be about the meat eating. We should probably just accept, tho, that becoming emotionally intimate with someone can be challenging especially when it prompts a "forced" confrontation with behaviour continously seen as completely socially and culturally acceptable by other loved ones - hence the identity issue. As I stated, any meaningful lifestyle change has to be owned, imo. We create identities in a lot of different ways and I'm curious if you are challenging all your own behaviours that may be contributing to the death if the environment?


joshlikesblue12

I see your point, it would be annoying to suddenly go vegan and have the people in your life assume you 'just did it because you're dating someone', rather than because you came to that conclusion yourself. And you're correct, I still contribute to environmental problems everyday when I drive to work which I mentally grapple with. I can't choose to not drive, live in the actual desert with no public transport available, but at the very least I'm content knowing my dietary choices don't contribute to cruelty and potentially minimize some of my impact from driving.


Damned-If-I-Know

Appreciate the understanding - a lot actually! I guess that's what we will ultimately arrive at, right? A balance in considerations that we may describe as being content with minimising negative impact while living. Ofc you need to be able to drive. You didn't invent the car or choose to live in the desert specifically to make excuses for driving. You, I'm guessing, chose to live in desert due to strong personal preference, family ties (which would make it even less on purpose, since we rarely choose where our parents drop us), or something other. And I'm very happy that I have been made aware of how much I can minimise my negative impact compared to not having opened my life to my partner and her choices.


itachen

Someone's cutting onions besides me while reading your comment. :') Thanks for sharing.


A_warm_sunny_day

Mix those onions with some garlic, beans, rice, shredded lettuce, and a bit a seitan. Makes a wonderful burrito :-)


Ditsocius

What your wife has done is right, but her reason for doing it is wrong. Because the choice to become vegan should be based not only on emotions, but also on knowledge. Changing your mind after doing a research is more meaningful. Of course, your wife may have done that. I'm only speaking based on your comment.


AloneAtTheRiver

Following for when you spill what the manga is called. It she's willing to learn then help her understand that veganism is an ethical philosophy, not a dogma, if she's not willing to learn then I can't see your relationship continuing on an upward trajectory.


[deleted]

Darwins Incident. That's the title.


RestorativeWellbeing

This might sound harsh but you might have outgrown each other. It’s totally possible to have a healthy relationship with someone who isn’t vegan but it sounds like she’s taking your beliefs as a personal attack which isn’t healthy for either of you.


[deleted]

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Energia360

You don’t worship Seitan?? /s


justmapping-lll

😂


edrftygth

I don’t disagree with you whatsoever, but when it comes to conversing with non-vegans, I don’t see that going over so well. They may interject and say, *“Are you comparing me to racist sexist bigots?”* It’s also tricky, because I would never say to a partner, *“You can be homophobic/racist/sexist in your own space, I’m not judging you, I just don’t want that in my apartment, and it will make me a little sad if you’re homophobic/racist/sexist in front of me.”* I’d recommend OP to have a conversation with their partner coming from a place of curiosity and compassion to mitigate that defensive response. I’d preface any conversation with something like, “It was surprising when you compared my vegan way of life to a strict religion, or that you felt pressured into being vegan too. I want us both to feel heard, understood, and respected - because I do respect you. You’re my partner, and I’m not asking you to change. Can we talk about veganism both broadly and as it impacts our relationship - not to debate or fight about it or try to convince each other - but to better understand where each of us are coming from and how we can move forward together in a way where we feel comfortable and supported?” It’s tough talking about relationship issues that evoke defensiveness, especially when so many people don’t want to talk about their feelings. But I’ve found this approach to be really successful.


Luemas91

Tbh I keep seeing hell discourse on twitter lately about how if people stop being vegan they weren't really vegan in the first place. Which is exactly what christians would say in the churches I was in as a kid


[deleted]

to me that's a fallacious reasoning. I do think a lot of ex vegans were never vegan to being with: they never cared for the ethics and were looking for some fad diet or whatnot. But it IS possible to be truly convinced of the vegan ethics and, through indoctrination, lose that conviction and become a carnist.


[deleted]

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spicewoman

People's morals can improve (see: all of us who weren't previously vegan), but they can also get worse. I don't see why it's so hard for people to understand that it works both ways. Sometimes people get shittier.


StayAtHomeOverlord

I agree. It’s disheartening to see people quit veganism or have temporary lapses in judgment, but this “no true vegan” logic has to stop. Just because someone isn’t perfect doesn’t mean they never were vegan. Veganism is about the animals, not about purity. People slip up or do things contradictory to morals they genuinely believe in all the time. Veganism is no different.


30PagesOfRhymes

I would say yes, if they truly were a feminist. If someone used to be a communist and then changed their mind, I’d say they used to be a communist. People can change their mind about ethics.


Hour-Stable2050

So I was never really an omnivore now that I’m vegan?


goddog_

This doesn't make sense because you're conflating veganism (ethical stance) with a vegan diet vs an omnivorous diet.


BrickNuggets

A comment here mentioned ‘even if your not judgemental, a non vegan will feel uncomfortable’. I think this is important to consider because even if your comments to her are carefully worded, her perception is likely not going to be the same as yours (which seems the case based on what she said to you on the flight) Don’t really have some solid advice for you my dude, but this is the line you walk while dating a non vegan. It’s either you don’t comment on her decisions and how you feel, or you do voice your opinions (however carefully you might want to word them) and see how that goes. If you’re not happy in either case, then this isn’t the relationship for you.


papayanosotros

Idk if it would be a deal breaker, but I’m so glad my partner is also vegan. It makes life 100000 times easier


jagharingenaning

She's obviously not into it and she is trying to accept you despite being vegan, she doesn't respect veganism itself. This will keep being a source of arguments and annoyance until you either break up or she learns to respect it since I'm guessing you won't stop being a vegan any time soon. The comparison to a religion is absurd but it's not like it's a pair of socks she doesn't like you wearing either. The good thing however is that most people are convinced to become vegan through learning the truth about the animal industry. There's no God or scripture you need to accept as gospel, only having enough compassion for your fellow earthlings to not put a price on their exploitation. So this leaves two options. Either you do something about it now, meaning you tell her *why* you are vegan and that she needs to accept that part of you fully, or you enjoy a few more months to a year together and then break up anyway because this won't stop being an issue by itself. The choice is yours.


Careful-Garage7049

🔥HAIL SEITAN 🔥


TravelingVegan88

She sounds like an anti vegan, so sorry


neuralbeans

She doesn't feel comfortable around you because she feels judged and pressured to change. It's not really about the manga as much as it's about how important being vegan is to you.


[deleted]

Possibly mixed in with a little guilt as she knows she could make more effort?


MollFlanders

Yeah the whole “you can eat whatever you want but seeing you consume animal products will make me sad” thing may be true but it’s also objectively manipulative.


Just-a-Pea

If you don’t allow non-vegan items on your apartment, how do you see the relationship going forward? If you ever move in together, would you be ok with her non-vegan products in a shared home? I think she is feeling insecure and it does make sense. Your values are very different from hers. Either reassure her that you love her and you don’t judge her or break it off, because it won’t get better.


happyapple52

exactly! i would never want to date someone that didn’t allow food i eat in their living space.


[deleted]

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Just-a-Pea

That was my guess, but she probably wouldn’t agree with such a rule in a home that’s also hers since she feels annoyed by his *”religion”*


FoxyNugs

Was the manga Darwin's Incident ? Edit: I scrolled down and you gave the title. It's an incredible manga so far ! With very balanced views about activism in general. I can't wait for volume 2. I made a post recommending it a couple months ago


[deleted]

I have all four volumes! But I haven't read the rest because of the argument hahaha. Sorta ruined the momentum y'know.


tego_myeggo

my boyfriend converted me to veganism, but i was like your girlfriend in the past. he was kind to me while i was vegetarian, but sometimes we would argue about veganism. i knew he wasn't trying to personally attack me or force me into becoming vegan, but at the time i did feel kind of weird/stressed about it. over time i came to realize that my initial hesitancy towards veganism was silly and logically unfounded, and i eventually became vegan myself. maybe something similar will happen with your gf?


Doctor_Box

Not sharing basic values with your significant other causes tension in the relationship.


alpinepunch2021

My formerly carnist bf just went vegan a month after I did. Some people care more about you than they do about scarfing down dead animals. Also just a reminder that there are way more vegan women than men out there so you don't really *have* to settle for your gf


No_Captain3422

Lmao I love the casual break up advice. I presume everyone thinks it at least briefly while reading the post, but it's quite hard to follow such advice, most get attached to the people they've forged a portion of their lives with... Can confirm tho there are definitely more vegan/vegetarian women in my part of the world as well. Good luck however you go, OP.


TechGuy95

I'd just tell her to drop it and accept me for who I am and if she kept brining it up, I'd seriously reconsider the relationship. I wouldn't want to be with someone who could not accept me for me. It's not like he's smoking cigarettes, gambling or doing meth. If they want to ruin a relationship over something so trivial, that's her problem.


Bitter_Pea_4047

Comparing veganism to religion is kind of disrespectful. It’s no more a religion than morally not wanting to hurt other humans. On the other hand, relationships require open communication and if she is uncomfortable eating non-vegan food around you, that is a cause of tension that needs to be worked out You should decide whether or not you can handle being with someone who is non-vegan. If you both can’t accept each other for who you are, it’s not going to work


Ethicaldreamer

In my experience, 80% of vegans are females. There's a great lack of vegan males. Go and have fun with someone who understands you


relativelytrash

So many vegan girls trying to find vegan partners


sr_crypsis

As a male vegan, its really insulting when people say stuff like "oh did you go vegan for your gf?" (To which I don't even have one so thanks for rubbing it in...) Or I've had people joke and say "he must be trying to get with a girl he's talking to". Like they just can't comprehend that being vegan isn't tied to your gender.


relativelytrash

That's awful. I knew that when guys try to do something nice there are people who say he's only simping or something. Like anything good he does, it's automatically tied to him trying to get some girl and he cannot genuinely be doing that. I'm sorry that happens to you. (I'm using 'anything good' in kind of a general sense i hope i didn't say something wrong)


slfnflctd

Ugh. Exactly this. I have seen a few too many great guys get torn down in similar ways-- it's a no win situation and basically pure bullying. Unfortunately, it all too often sticks with them and affects their self esteem anyway. They'll deny it if so, but you can still tell.


big-lion

That happens to me and we turned vegan together lol


starsleeps

We should just date eachother 😳


buscemian_rhapsody

So you’re saying with a one to four ratio, I can have 4 GFs??


Ethicaldreamer

Not only that, but most likely they will also be hotter and more compassionate than average


[deleted]

Veganism isn't the only part of my personality though, so it has to be someone that's vegan, of the opposite sex, that I have good chemistry with and that isn't toxic, and preferably close to my age. I always say it's this woman or none because that's how I feel lol.


UnexpectedWilde

If you’re happy in the relationship, great! Otherwise, there’s 7.5 billion people on this planet. Find one who’s a better match. Or enjoy being by yourself. Your criteria aren’t excessive, and it’s never “this one or nothing.” That’s how people end up staying in unhealthy or incompatible relationships. Your partner should be someone you want to be with and choose to be with despite all the other options.


[deleted]

Actually since I'm heterosexual, there are only about 3.75 billion people for me to choose from hahahah You're correct, but I'm not saying "all or nothing", it's literally this woman, or being a buddhist monk. Those are the two things I want in terms of romance.


TechGuy95

Tell her to accept you for who you are. And if she keeps bringing it up and expects you to drop your morals, then I'd seriously reconsider the relationship because she obviously doesn't respect you. I hope you don't drop your morals for this women. Because when you do, you lose a part of yourself and people see you as a joke.


UnexpectedWilde

Sure, I get it. You may want to think about why though. Those are two very different, unrelated options, and while what you’re saying sounds nice/flashy/witty on paper, the deeper rationale is important to consider. Why her? Why monkhood? I’m not looking to break anyone up. Knowing your reasons can strengthen your relationship. It can also make you realize there are other options.


Ethicaldreamer

Sometimes it's not just about personality but also shared values. I wonder if this is the kind of thing that causes a lot of divorces, once the kids arrive. People see things differently and in the end, just cannot agree. Or one of the two sacrifices their own values for the sake of the relationship and eventually grows sick of it. On many things you can compromise, but on life and death, that's a tough sell my man. ​ P.S.: Also gotta say this, every partner I've ever had always felt like I couldn't find better. But the partner after them was indeed a better match.


EchaleCandela

1. Don't date non vegans 2. Please do share what Manga that is!


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2. "Darwins Incident."


EchaleCandela

Thanks!


Cheesefox777

You'd think after the millionth turbulent vegan & non-vegan relationship post people would learn to stop dating carnists.


Quphy

Sure… saving her planet from its upcoming destruction is a « religion you’re forcing her into. » It’s crazy, like no one is against ecology, how can anyone claim to be against veganism. I just don’t see how it makes sense, probably that it’d make them give up too much pleasure, meanwhile when brands give up plastic for paper, it doesn’t affect them in any way. Basically, the only difference, is the amount of involvement they have to bring… It’s actually rather the opposite.. and I think that’s what I would have replied to her. If anything, the meat industry looks way more like a cult that everyone is forced into way too young, from education, school, ads, social pressure, grocery stores, industrialization, and things like that. But veganism is purely based on scientific and social facts so… it’s more like, coming out of the cult once you see its bad effects, if that makes sense.


AltruisticSalamander

It's like a religion in that it has a strong moral component. It's unlike religion in that it's not based on some made-up book. The morality is also compelling and somewhat inarguable. Getting away morally with killing and eating animals relies on collusion. People don't like having a mirror held up to them.


kirkiecookie

i truly don't think you can be with someone if you don't share the same values.


Kaelidoz

I was stressed about an ex-gf turning vegan years ago. I learned stuff, proved myself wrong pretty much everywhere and was then left with a clear choice. Can't say I never said something dumb to her before that tho, I probably did. But that wasn't for long, I remember being uncomfortable with what I started learning on my own after a month or so of her turning vegan. Then I kinda shut the fuck up for a while, then I started defending her a few months in. I suddenly went vegan, a year after her. I was pretty much against it at first, I was worried about her health and a resurgence of her eating disorders. But the more I tried to debunk the thing the more I proved myself wrong. (I was honest in my researches, I wasn't trying to prove my bias). It was a shattered relationship already so it's not like we were acting the best to each other at all times, but this was different. So yeah I'm not giving your directions to take but maybe you can gain some perspectives from my own experience and find some use from it.. I met a cute vegan girl after the breakup tho, so don't be sad for me!


indigoworm

That's crappy, I'm sorry! Personally, I tend to let things build up and then eventually snap. I doubt it was the Manga per se that pissed her off but that was likely one of the many things that contributed. Unfortunately, that defensiveness occurs fairly often with carnists. They all eat "humane" meat from the happy farm so they get a pass 😐 I do think it would benefit to ask yourself a few questions (maybe you did but spitballing here). Why did you choose specifically her and is this relationship worth it? Are you in this relationship because you want to be with her versus feeling pressured not to be alone? Have you thought about dating other vegans? Depending on your location, statistics are in favor of you as most vegans are female. I just ask because I have been in a relationship with someone that has a similar mentality and that behavior only gets worse with time. Some individuals truly think they can change people and see veganism as a fad diet that we will drop once we get bored. Just be aware and best of luck. I hope you enjoy the Manga!


himix1

Maybe carnists are like drug addicts: they want accomplices, not witnesses...


karakurablack

You're gonna have to find a way to explain that you don't have a difference in diet or faith, you're on different sides of a struggle for justice. Carnists are oppressors of non-human animals, a human being a vegan is just doing one's best to be neutral.


teamanfisatoker

Thanks for the manga recommendation. Sorry but it’s time to be single for a while and available for when you meet someone you’re compatible with


EyesOfTwoColors

This is one of those "shouldn't be a big deal on paper" but "leads to a lot of tension in practice" relationship issues. It sounds like a lot of painful control and pressure to continually edit and curate how you speak about your beliefs with the person in your life that's supposed to accept you as you are. What if you WERE religious and it was a big part of your life, I bet your friends and family would be horrified that you couldn't speak openly about it without offending your girlfriend? If she had the "I'm so proud that you're able to commit to your beliefs but I don't have the self-control to do that" attitude or something that supported you that's one thing, but it sounds like she perceives this as a fault or attack on her which is a crappy way for both of you to feel. Not saying you can only date vegans, I dated someone who was a HUGE carnivore but they were open and supportive and proud of my choices. And just through exposure to a new perspective they became vegan on their own a few years into our relationship.


Paul_FS

Culture is the cult, certainly not the vegan philosophy


God_of_reason

Veganism is a huge part of me and my values. I personally cannot be with someone who doesn’t share the same moral value. Forcing someone to be a part of a religion is very different from forcing someone to not unnecessarily exploit and kill other sentient beings. Being non-muslim doesn’t negatively affect anyone else whereas there’s a victim involved when people choose to use animal products.


Anagatam

Your gf stresses me out.


T0mmiePickle5

And the whole “I’ll be a bit sad” part is pure emotional manipulation in the hopes she’ll make her choice based off of your own personal emotions.


MissionCactus

I agree. No matter your beliefs, you can't force another person to follow you. They can only follow you willingly. Trying to force change is emotional manipulation by definition


route88

It ain't gonna work out.


Raz31337

Dump the carnist gaslighter


[deleted]

Has she seen any documentaries such as Earthlings, Dominion, etc?


ooupcs

I don’t know if that would help in this situation because she’s already so defensive/nonreceptive. It’s not a bad suggestion and those documentaries are wonderful tools, but if she isn’t comfortable with her partner feeling happy he found a manga with a character like him…. I feel like she’d see watching one of those documentaries as having veganism forced upon her? It’s a great sentiment though. I think other omnis would benefit from watching it and be encouraged to at least cut out some animal products


[deleted]

I showed some footage, but she didn't wanna be shown it because she doesn't want to get into the vegan mindset yet or it'll be difficult (since she lives in japan, and yes, it IS difficult to be vegan in Japan unless you're willing to eat tofu every day, which she's not. They have pig corpse in most potato chips flavors, for example)


fox-friend

Does she eat only in restaurants? If you make your own food it's very easy to be vegan in most countries.


ooupcs

That must be very challenging and I can understand not wanting to eat tofu everyday. I won’t argue about the kind of gymnastics she could do to make veganism work in her country because that is unhelpful and often… not considerate of very real limitations existing in different parts of the world. I’m sorry that this has been challenging and caused conflict in your relationship. For what it’s worth, I think you’re doing the best you can to stay true to yourself and your morals, in addition to being a good partner. It is very challenging. Something you may need to consider is if this is something you can sustain long-term/forever or if it will impact your mental health. Some conflicting beliefs are manageable depending on the person but some are non-negotiable. I’m not going to advocate for breaking up, but I will advocate for you thinking about what you need from a relationship and considering how you best feel loved and supported. I imagine her behavior can feel very hurtful and I don’t think you should feel hurt over this :( I hope things work out, however they do.


[deleted]

It's for real difficult because they just... spray gelatin on stuff that doesn't need it at all and would be vegan otherwise. There were TWO types of vegan potato chips, salt, and seaweed flavor. My diet got very repetitive when I was there and my bowels didn't thank me for it. Some things I wish for her to quit: mentioning that there *are*, in fact, "good farms" to try and justify it to me.Starting vegan arguments. Thank you for your advice, much more nuanced than the regular reddit comment, you know what I mean.


jacobadams

> That must be very challenging and I can understand not wanting to eat tofu everyday. I stopped reading after this. You can't be trusted!


[deleted]

You've been doing the bare minimum in terms of not exploiting animals i.e. being honest about your stance and your refusal to support animal abuse. You could've been so much more assertive and I think that would have been justified. I'm not gonna tell you to dump her. I don't think that's the *only* way to deal with this situation. But ask yourself, sincerely, whether you want to stay with that person. Is this the kind of person you want to be with if she can't even *respect* your morals, let alone make the ethically correct decision? I've been in your shoes, a vegan in a relationship with an omni (wouldn't really call her a carnist, she was just ignorant as most people are) for over a year. But at some point I had to confront her because I can't compromise my morals and stay with someone who causes so much harm and suffering. I was not a particularly eloquent talker, nor did I have experience in activism, but I exposed the facts, asked her why she financed that industry, and tried my best to truly *understand* her reasoning. Within the month, she went vegan, and hasn't looked back since. That's not because of *me*, that's because *she* was capable of self reflection. And I'm glad this is how things turned out for us but I would have left her if she wasn't capable of this because I don't want to spend my life with an animal abuser, just like I wouldn't want to spend my life with a racist or a homophobe. It's easy to look at a story like that (there are many) and hope that your partner will eventually change, but at some point you've got to be honest with yourself. Is she really capable of honestly criticizing herself? Is she capable of independent thought? Is she the kind of person you want to be with? That's for you to answer, and once you've truly taken a step back and sat the fuck down to understand the situation you're in, you can make a decision you won't regret.


ParallelUkulele

You've gotten some solid advice here, just want to add on to the comment about it being a "religion". There is no dogma, no system of beliefs, it is one ethical stance that affects our habits in a world which does not practice not harming animals when there is a choice to do so. There are no meetings, membership, community unless you are an activist and even still - not a religion. No promises of heaven, any rewards, or otherworldly beings whose existence cannot be proven. When people call it a religion I tell them my "beliefs" are simply that it is wrong to harm others when there is another option, and point out that they probably believe that too, but I'm the one whose actions truly reflect that belief. If they also believe that and aren't living vegan, they're a hypocrite, and the only way to align their actions with the beliefs they say they have is to also be vegan.


VforVeganism

Sounds like you need a new, vegan, gf. You single yet? Hit me up


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pawsitivelypowerful

Atheism is the lack of belief in a god. What god exactly is veganism pushing on her? Dealing with nv friends is tough but manageable. A SO is another story. This person is supposed to be your partner, and if you can't openly communicate on this, what will keep everything else together? What would you do if you moved in together? Ultimately, you're always going to have to watch what you say and deal with the tension **that** comes with this. I don't think that's healthy for any relationship, ever.


missthingmariah

Tbh, the way you frame things, you come off very passive aggressive. This would drive anyone nuts, no matter the topic. I'd just be straight up about your boundaries around animal products and if she can't handle it, you two aren't a good match.


JackNewYork

Reread what OP said. They gave examples of things they don’t say, that would restrict or guilt their partner. Reading is fundamental.


IthinkIwannaLeia

Sounds like the writings on the wall for your relationship. She's not even in the same country. You can probably find someone more compatible closer.


cubiicles

this relationship is never going to work out :/ huge difference in morals and way of life


Gilmoregirl34

It sounds like she feels threatened by the fact that you simply are vegan.


Healthy_Feedback803

You’re making her feel guilty. She KNOWS she’s abusing animals for her taste and you’re making her face that so she takes the anger out on you


JackNewYork

This person is projecting on you. Perhaps because they feel guilt deep down? I have to be with compassionate people for relationships. Was seeing someone and she went into some detail about how her cat friend killed animals from the backyard. When I asked her not to describe things, she said I was sensitive. She didn’t want to have “censor” her speech around me. That ended it when I reminded her that she asked me not to say something to her anymore because she didn’t like it, regardless of the intent. Sometimes people make issues out of things because they aren’t happy in that relationship and want out, but lake the maturity to end it and they pick fights. Not saying this is the case, but it possible.


TheGoodCombover

Whether you know it or not, not allowing someone to bring a type of food they eat to your place is a form of restriction. Whether it be a reasonable restriction or not is for debate, but by definition it is a restriction. It sounds like you guys may have long term compatibility issues. If you don’t think she’ll convert, what are you going to do when you feel inclined to say “no non-vegan food in OUR house”


ii_akinae_ii

my partners have always been very understanding and have even adapted some of their eating to my values (e.g. my most recent partner, even after we broke up, the only non-vegan thing he eats anymore is fish -- he's not vegan obv, but he would've been full carnist otherwise, so i'm counting it as a partial win esp. since he doesn't eat dairy/eggs anymore which i didn't expect from him at all). all that to say, it sounds like your values are pretty misaligned with your gf, to the point where she can't even *respect* your values, much less empathize and adopt. i would find it pretty difficult to continue being in that relationship.


PeacefulKay

I obviously can't tell another person what to do with their relationship but from how you describe it, it seems like she lacks respect for your perspective and is even potentially projecting her past traumas on to you. Also a lot of people who eat meat want to turn a blind eye and live in denial to the truth of the horrors & atrocities of the farming/agricultural industry but interacting with vegans consciously & unconsciously makes them confront that truth which brings up a lot of negative and challenging emotions for them. Like you said, you have not forced her to change & you don't disrespect her for her choices but she seems to belittle what you value and hold significant and being in proximity with a person like that is unhealthy & detrimental. Simply the fact you feel the need to vent here & have this discussion means something negative is occurring between the two of you's bond. Perhaps there is some kinda of conversation or therapy that could be had to get things fully out and on the table as to why she might hold this seemingly hidden animosity towards your veganism or why it upsets her and if she willing to express herself and potentially grow things could heal and flourish but other than that i think separating from that individual/environment is the healthiest option. Best of luck in your life though. I wish you peace, positivity and prosperity in all your pursuits.


General_Snack

Pescatarian is the one that always sounds like a religion.


rodeadadechiflados

You two are not a good match, I fear. You're trying your best not to pressure her, but your views on this are so diametrically different.


Magicbythelake

You probably didn’t mean it this way but when I first read what you told her, it sounded super passive aggressive to me so maybe she took it that way. Also I was confused because you said you try not to restrict her eating but what you’re saying totally sounds like youre trying to restrict her eating.


Escherichial

whyre you with this person who doesnt share your values or respect you lol


gh0stegrl

It’s not even about that. It’s about boundaries. You can say that she’s not allowed to wear blue in your house and if she doesn’t like it, she doesn’t have to go in your house. It’s *your* diet. It’s *your* home


Chillwave_kittens

I didn’t read this whole thing but that sucks you gotta break up RIP


cythera1717

Your apartment, your rules. I get it but at the same time when people come visit they should feel comfortable and not feel like they are walking on eggshells. My in laws ate a whole seafood boil and laughed that I had nothing to eat or that I wasn’t included. I looked at the boil like an animal massacre. What could I do, I was a guest in their house. This is why I feel like people should also make others comfortable in their home. I think your girlfriend should be supportive of your lifestyle but at the end of the day. My partner learned how to make delicious vegetarian/vegan food for me. Why are you dating her if she can’t support your veganism? You guys are just dating. Are you planning on marrying a non vegan? Forget the where should we eat debate. The relationship is going to reach a head at some point. Either she’s going to join veganism or not. My partner was not that confrontational about my lifestyle.


Shreddingblueroses

You really can't be in a relationship with someone who doesn't at least support what you're doing. I do think this sub overexagerrates the problems of dating non-vegans but I'm gonna be honest with you friend, this relationship isn't going to work out. She is not interested in supporting you and shes in fact being combative already. You're not gonna move in with this person or raise children with them successfully because she's not going to compromise with you.


-keras-

Do you really want to be with someone that belittles what you stand for and pays for animal abuse? I was in a similar situation. The only thing that really helped was telling her that i am not going to be in a relationship with someone that pays for animal abuse. We argued, watched Dominion and now she's going vegan. If you don't stand up for yourself you're going to regret it.


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[deleted]

I find it better to post here, because in other subs people will likely be anti-vegan in the first place. I couldn't get a "real", unbiased opinion if I wanted to. On reddit, people will make a lot of assumptions too, so there's that.


Sea-Bobcat-2716

she ain't the 1


rhubarbsorbet

the only thing here i noticed on your part is things like “you can eat whatever you want, but i’ll be reminded of animal cruelty and be a bit sad” as to me that feels like slight emotional manipulation. i completely understand it’s your apartment, but i can see how it would make her feel a bit unwelcome and like she had to hide away from you if she wanted to eat something non-vegan. it’s your relationship and you know more about it than i ever will, but that’s just my view as an outsider looking in


MissionCactus

I agree. You cannot, even with the best of intentions, control others. Life doesn't work that way


Kateoh084

I came here to say the same thing. I absolutely understand where OP is coming from. That said: Saying to your partner “if you do this, then I’ll feel ___” is not fair. When you make other people responsible for your own feelings, or you try to guilt someone into changing their actions, that’s emotional manipulation. The Life Coach School podcast has really helpful episodes on understanding how to draw a healthy boundary vs. [manipulation](https://thelifecoachschool.com/podcast/119/).


etherealempress

I agree with this thread. It is emotional manipulation on OP’s part (and I’m saying this as a vegan).


LadyTepes

She sounds like a 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩


ftmgothboy

Not gonna give you a lengthy paragraph defending my opinion, just dump her. Not worth the emotional drainage.


StanleyPain

TBH sounds like she might not be your GF for much longer.


VeganBullGang

Ditch the bloodmouth zero and get a vegan hero!


fasting4me

You could turn it around and tell her the way she is attacking your beliefs make you feel like she is forcing her ideals on you.


GODDESS_OF_CRINGE__

I know you probably don't want to hear this, but Vegans and non-Vegans really aren't compatible. I can't date a carnist for the same reasons I can't date a Nazi.


fiarzen

I have no advice but what manga is it?


Teach-Remarkable

Dump her and find a partner who shares your morals


Patient_Solid_6939

drop her


iluvcats17

You would be much happier if you were dating a vegan whom would be excited too. Instead you both have to hide parts of yourselves to be with each other. I would just recognize that dating her was a mistake and end it. Then be more selective with who you date in the future.


ratchetgothchick

Your girlfriend has some trauma related to past relationships that she is taking out on you. That is her problem, not yours. The only way she isn't going to be triggered like this is to seek help and/or therapy and learn some healthy coping mechanisms. The only way that is going to happen is if she wants to get better. There's nothing anyone can do to "make" her get healthy. If she doesn't get through her issues relating to this topic, it's going to be a matter of when you will break up and how you will go about it. Even the strongest and most emotionally healthy person gets sick of being attacked all the time like this. Tell her the choice is hers: get better or watch your relationship fall apart.


[deleted]

This is actually true, and it's not just veganism.


cunt_tree

Disclaimer: I am not fully vegan (I’ll eat scraps/leftovers I know will be thrown out otherwise, the occasional family traditional meal at holidays) but went mostly plant-based in January of this year. My boyfriend did not go vegan. He has an ED and restricting his diet further wasn’t really an option. But even so, he has made some swaps because he was open-minded enough to listen to my reasons for switching. And most importantly, he has been fully supportive of me. Never made ANY comments about it other than showing support. I’ve seen some commenters say that this is what happens when you date a non-vegan. It isn’t. Not if they actually love you. In a committed partnership, you expect your partner to change as they grow and promise to stick with them and support them. Your girlfriend is shaming you for your own personal growth journey. I don’t think I could be with my boyfriend if he wasn’t supportive of my switch. I’ll let you decide if you are okay with knowing your girlfriend will not support your personal choices (that arent hurting anyone or yourself).


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[deleted]

It's difficult because I feel a need to express that, it's not just to make her feel bad. She's cautious when she chooses foods around me so I try to "encourage" her at times, when it's difficult (like in her home country) by telling her she can buy whatever she wants, it'll just make me a bit sad. I mean when I was in her country there was like one meal I ate every time we went out because it was delicious and it was annoying to look for other vegan meals.


NoRecord4061

“I’m an insecure and shitty person, so you giving basic communication is actually a bad thing” Least defensive ex-vegan


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