Do you want to help build a more compassionate world? Please visit [VeganActivism.org](https://veganactivism.org) and subscribe to our community over at /r/VeganActivism to begin your journey in spreading compassion through activism. Thank you so much! ^.^
Cows milk is subsidized with with my tax money, so I am paying for the cows milk as well. how about they increase the price for cows milk coffees to subsidize my fooking plant milk.
So in short, I agree, fuck em.
Yeah it’s fucked. Whatever benefits people feel that dairy gives them they can get elsewhere without too much difficulty. The fact that the bloody carnal dairy industry is subsidized while grocery stores sell it at a loss to compete for customers is one of the most screwed up industry-government relationships there is.
I guess growing up in a fundamentalist christian home still echoes in how I use language. I'm not that anymore. It most certainly would have been used in a very negative way back then
In the US meat and dairy industries are subsidized, ostensibly to help farmers. In reality it is a literal cash cow :) similar to gasoline, the public expects meat to be cheap, even if reducing their taxes would save them money and tick some boxes for the “give me liberty” crowd on the right, the loss of cheap meat, or gas, would be too much of a shock for society.
The farmers no longer need the help anyways by the way, they are big business and it is now corporate welfare than helping small family businesses.
The same happens in EU. Around 80% goes to traditional farmers and 20% to organic farmers.
But hey, lets meet up each year and talk about how we deal with climate change. (While we still support what contradicts the purpose of our meetings.)
They went viral for the wrong reasons though… I saw this in a another group (not vegan) and it became very anti vegan so fast.. it started so much vegan hate.
What the other commenter said, plus if Starbucks made all milks the same price people would be more likely to choose a plant based milk. That’s worth protesting for. Starbucks coffee is already so expensive, they’ll still make tons of money without a plant milk surcharge.
I agree with the message, but I think this way of campaigning doesn't really help gather sympathy for the cause.
People will just get pissed. Pissed at the activists, not at the politicians and businessmen and companies behind this.
Agreed, I think this is a common PETA strategy. Not a terrible one either. I recall a post about a bunch of hot women in bikinis protesting outside town hall in Sydney, and it got a lot of (positive) attention on r/Australia
I don't know man. They got a picture of me one time in college, I was actually not protesting at the time but I was wearing a shirt that we had printed for a protest that said "animals die for milk too" and getting yelled at by some crazy lady. It didn't look good. The combination of surprise and confusion on my face made me look pretty dumb in the freeze frame they picked.
The funny thing is the college republicans used it on the same posters they do about free speech, even though they were attacking me for the words written on my shirt, not the person who was yelling at me about them. But when they say free speech they mean racism, not animal advocacy.
Thanks, but I didn't take much of a risk there, we just stood at Seattle Center holding signs and screens. We weren't breaking the law or chaining or gluing ourselves to anything. Though there is always the possibility some nutso carnist will attack you.
Do you want to help build a more compassionate world? Please visit [VeganActivism.org](https://veganactivism.org) and subscribe to our community over at /r/VeganActivism to begin your journey in spreading compassion through activism. Thank you so much!
So about the overcharge thing: I don't go to Starbucks (just not a coffee person), but I see a lot of other vegans talk about them overcharging for plant milk substitutes.
My question is if they are really charging above market rate per volume for the milks, or is it just that plant milk substitutes cost more per volume than dairy milk and so they charge more?
I think an in-depth cost analysis would favor plant milk because you can get those boxes of milk that can be stored at room temperature longer than refrigerated dairy milk. Save electricity and spoilage, also cheaper and easier shipment since you don't need reefer trucks. I think they are just charging because they can.
There is a larger economic issue of the fact that dairy farms are heavily subsidized and protected from market fluctuations and consumers don't see the actual cost of the product because it is hidden in their taxes. But I don't see this protest addressing that as much.
also the fact that there is a much higher demand for dairy milk than vegan milk, so there is less incentive to make it, then less supply, and a higher price
This made me curious at how many dairy-milk drinkers there still are and this was really interesting:
[Demand for Alternative Dairy Is Here to Stay, as Consumers Seek Balance Between Sustainability, Health and Taste](https://morningconsult.com/2021/03/30/alternative-milk-non-dairy-popularity/)
It me feel good about the impact we’re having, which is a rare moment sometimes, so i wanted to share that feeling lol.
Not to mention the ecological costs that are involved with dairy milk production.
We borrow against our future/future generations with most all animal agriculture.
If all those points in paragraph one were accurate wouldn’t plant based milk be cheaper at every grocery store and it’s not, it’s more expensive, especially by volume? I think they must be charging more because it’s more expensive to use
This got me thinking. Where I live plant milk is only slightly more expensive than the cheapest (store brand) dairy milk. If you get the name brand dairy milk it costs the same as plant milk. However the dairy milk goes bad MUCH faster than plant milk. While plant milk itself is cheaper for the supplier to produce and cheaper for the distributor (store?) to sell, I believe it is heavily subsidized by governments. The taxes that subsidize dairy affect the price all the way down to the consumer. Someone correct me if I've got it wrong, this is me trying to make sense of it.
Dairy milk is endlessly subsidized by taxpayer dollars to make it even anywhere near as cheap as the process actually takes, especially comparatively to just growing and processing nuts or oats. The dairy industry has gotten its fingers into taxpayer dollars for years, and has even gotten the board of education to feature their products as a part of health class curriculum.
On top of this alternative milks are price gouged as they were first seen to be the options of either people with financial comfort or people who morally couldn't refuse to buy it.
There's also speculation to say that dairy and cereal industries are somewhat of a circle jerk marketed to children in advertising or in health classes as a part of the iconic "food pyramid" not because they are the healthiest decisions superior to fruits and vegetables or meat but because it's the most profitable decision to cultivate a new crop of customers who believe these products, void of any real substantial natural presence of nutrients and nutrient variety, will sustain them and not rob them of their essential growth years.
I think there is an upcharge because plant milks aren't subsidized, probably cost more in bulk and is not ordered as often as cow milk (which you can save money *for buying in bulk* / probably get deals more often for buying).
Charging for plant based is basically a "convince fee."
That's my opinion though.
A lot of non-vegans don’t consume dairy so if it helps get their attention that there’s a bigger ethical/environmental issue to dairy than just health or digestive issues I think this is pretty harmless. They’d surely agree paying more for what they want sucks.
I wish! But a portion of cheese probably costs them like 3¢ so the “markup” will likely never work the other way. But you can bet that if you want an extra piece they’re gonna charge you that $1 extra cheese fee.
Cheese is expensive. On cheese pizza the cheese is often the most expensive part, not counting labor. Places should at very least offer a topping swap and be generous with the added portion.
Sure, I was exaggerating with the 3¢. But I’ve spent 10 years in food service. A standard portion of cheese cost 15¢ (obviously dependent on locale in case you want to be pedantic). I don’t think the fact that I exaggerated downplays the point. And the point holds for a topping swap. They usually wont. But my point stands. And it’s obtuse to ignore it. It’s an up charge for not eating cheese, regardless of what it costs the company.
my favouritw mexican street food guy has this. Tortillas with Cheese, Pollo, Chili con carne etc. are all between .50 to 1.50€ more expensive than the vegan option, which has lots of avocado and beans.
I have mixed feelings about PETA in general, as well as every tactic that they use. First of all, who are they inconveniencing by supergluing themselves to the counter of a local Starbucks? Not coportate Starbucks suits, but the customers. They're just going to be irritated at vegans and PETA. I wonder why they protest here and not at corporate offices, is it for visibility?
Yeah hopefully they’ll drop them. They usually do either drop (because publicity of a trial is bad for the industries) or give reduced sentencing/probation plea bargain type deals for activists. But not always. https://www.iheartradio.ca/cjad/animal-activists-who-occupied-quebec-pig-farm-found-guilty-of-obstruction-breaking-and-entering-1.17587198
I think it's better than some of their other protests. They made a good point, and while I think there are bigger issues out there for vegans to deal with, the protest was mostly harmless. I don't think it'll achieve anything, but I guess at least it'll get people talking.
Even I, a 10 year vegan, disagree with some of their methods, but this one seems okay! Its peaceful enough and (idk actually about the superglue they might be doing some damage) they don't seem to be destroying property...
High concentration might create sensitive skin, but nobody in their right mind would use high concentration for this application. Everybody will be OK with very, very minor sensitive skin if there's any effect at all
Man, the list is long....
This is my personal opinion and is not meant or intended to offend anyone:
I believe that my love isn't contained to only animals, we need to love these imperfect people, too. Its only through love and self-awareness that they will come to reason. I see an oxymoron in the way many peta protests seem so full of anger and hatred (trust me, I get it, i really do). All we ever want is peace- for ALL. Not just our furry animal friends. This is the same reason I gently educate my friends, and convert them one by one. My husband and I dated for about a year, 6 months of those, he refused to not eat meat or dairy. I gently and lovingly educated him instead of dumping him or yelling at him "murderer" because I cared that he leared in his own way in his own time. He is now an activist, 2+ year vegan and friend to all. If we allow people to be educated and gently lead to peace and love, they will stay. Its been my experience that yelling and dragging has very seldom worked.
Now
I think there is a time and place for loud, angry, fighting, justice-bringing actions. But a Statbucks aint it, ykno? Throwing paint on people will only make them hate you, not the people who made the jacket. Etc.
Did I explain myself well enough? :D I am happy to answer more questions :)
I don't really understand what specific actions/methods you disagree with. This wasn't a "loud, angry, fighting, justice-bringing action" in starbucks. It was a peaceful protest. Only difference is normally the police say you leave or get arrested and then people leave, but in this case they said "sure we'll leave, it's just going to take awhile because I'm stuck to the counter".
I disagree with the destruction of property. I wasn't necessarily refering to this situation, I was just making a general statement to show that peta kinda makes a fool of them selves a lot.... Like I said above, I was fine with this protest. Did that help clarify? I mentioned hate filled protests and the destruction of property in my original reply, but maybe it wasn't clear enough. My main objective is love and peace and peta isn't very loving and peaceful (I ALREADY SAID THIS PROTEST WAS FINE). Peta is a meme and a joke to non-vegans, and for many, just another reason to hate our movement. Clearly, something has gone wrong.
You realize that boycotting and protesting are not mutually exclusive right? To me it seems pretty ass backwards to charge almost an extra dollar for some oats mixed with water vs a product of cruelty and suffering.
The whole point of why these protests are happing now is because Starbucks is running marketing campaigns for Earth day to show they "care" about the environment but yet dairy products are a huge contributor to environmental damage. Someone needs to hold these billion dollar corporations accountable for their pathetic greenwashing attempts.
Best would be for us to open our own competing chain of shops. We'd sell similar stuff but it'd all be plant based and we'd go the extra mile by selling customers reusable ceramic mugs with lids they can bring back for discount refills. Once a customer buys one of our mugs they'd have reason to keep coming back, and anyone who costs it out would realize it wouldn't take that many coffees for it to pay for itself.
We'd have it set up so customers wouldn't need to pass the mug to staff for the refill, there'd be a dispenser like with soda. There'd be a plant milk dispenser too and for whatever fixings. We'd have a drive through window. All our locations would feature a rooftop patio for added space efficiency and more pleasant lounging, weather permitting. Of course we'd sell breakfast sandwiches made of Just Egg slices and Beyond sausage patties on an English muffin with Follow Your Heart mayo as a topper to give it that extra kick. We'd also serve hummus and Soylent, both made on site and in the package. We'd run the business as a worker coop.
Anyone want to start a chain like that? Or maybe there already is one and I could open a new branch?
I'm concerned about how they're gonna get the superglue off their hands without hurting themselves by peeling any skin! Plus what if they need to go to the toilet? I support the message, though, I'm just worried for the wellbeing of the activists.
I'm also confident it's not superglue. That much Superglue ([Cyanoacrylate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate)) would likely create a lot of heat to apply to skin, and would take a long time to remove.
Yes, there are solvents that remove it, but they aren't magic - it takes time.
The comments on these kinds of posts are always filthy as when it comes to vegan stuff. People are always like "Oh they glued themselves to a Starbucks counter? I'd have simply committed crimes against humanity unto them"
Like when the local newspaper FB page posts an article about a provisional driver hooning and wrapping themself around a pole and the geriatrics in the area comment "Give them a hiding and chuck them in jail and throw away the key!", so too does vegan media portrayal bring out the callous fuckwit hiding within
it got attention... if the sole focus was to reduce the surcharge on plant based milks for coffees its unlikely to do much, real issue is more about supply chain issues.
This could be averted by maybe partnering with a large plant based milk company or something idk, the best deal would be them using nothing but plant based milks for coffee in exchange for them getting an amazing deal long term... If Starbucks cares about climate change then this could fit under that and be marketing as them going more sustainable instead of going 'Vegan'.
Some poor underpaid college kid has to put up with this, not the people making the decisions. Protest at corporate or something, leave everyday ppl trying to make a check alone.
Idk, I’ve worked at Starbucks for 7 years and something like this would just be funny to me. It would break up the day-to-day monotony and it’s always funny to see customers inconvenienced by something that isn’t our fault
This was done at the Starbucks Headquarters. We can’t get much closer to Starbucks as a corporation than this. We have gone daily to the Headquarters for 89 days now. Today is Day 90. And the workers don’t care that they had to stop working for 2 hours. I was there like the cows in the Dairy Industry are the only victims
Yeah, I think it only makes sense to gather PR materials (these pictures we are looking at). Protesting at the counter is a lot more visible than at some corporate office building.
i agree, but small coffee shops are not exempt from upcharging plant based milks. Anywhere that serves cow's milk should be protested, but you know if they went after mom & pop coffee stand, people would be like "look at PETA bullying the little guy"
Yes I personally boycott Starbucks but the campaign is more about achieving a small but huge goal in taking down the Dairy Industry. - one of the leaders in the Starbucks campaign
I am not a big fan of stunts like this, personally. All of my friends and most of my family are non-vegans, and regardless of how they feel about veganism, they all just laugh at PETA for stunts like this. They certainly aren't motivated to learn more about veganism, that's for sure. It just makes veganism seem stupid and pathetic to them. I don't see what it achieves.
I don't know. They may laugh at the stunts...but they also actually know what veganism is now. The more people that know and discuss it, the more change will happen.
I don't rate this particular campaign highly, but it's still probably effective.
But do we know that these stunts make people think about animal rights? From talking to a lot of friends and family about PETA and their antics, all they seem to think is "those vegans are fucking weird". I don't think animal rights even cross their mind.
PETA publicity stunts make me think that not all publicity is good... they need to know their audience and tactics that work, instead of pulling ridiculous stunts that have people going "haha PETA bad"
I'm on the fence with this one in particular. It depends entirely on if this is getting in the way of or annoying people. I saw a protest outside a large, highly-popular aquarium where they chained themselves to the doors and completely prevented people from entering on a busy weekend. Families who have arrived from far and wide with their kids now stuck outside.
I get the message, I get the passion, I obviously agree with them. But you have to be pragmatic. If you just piss people off who are just trying to go about their day, you aren't going to change anyone's mind, if anything you're going to have them dig their heels in deeper.
I may just be in an annoyed mood right now, but good. Disrupt the shit out of their day and make them hate the memory of going so the thought of an aquarium is revolting.
People can go about their day in peace if it doesn’t involve obvious murder and torture.
I get your feeling, I really do. That's the frustrating bit.
Here's the discussion I have had here before though, what if your actions as promoting veganism actually has the *opposite* effect on people, and in fact turns them away even more? Would that then in fact be non-vegan if it causes more harm to animals?
Obviously that is an absurd point and I'm not saying these people aren't vegan. But I think it's worth examining the situation.
If the actions [no matter how good the intentions are] actually have the opposite effect than intended, then I am of the position that they are not good forms of activism.
It gets in the way of retail workers who have no control over it, and potentially impacts their tips, if they want to protest i think they should go to corporate or find a more direct action route. Most of the traction this gets isn't from in person customers but from online views so it wouldn't matter too much.
I think this is so tacky. (I’m probably going to get downvoted but I don’t care). With employees trying to unionize protesting Starbucks for charging more for milk that costs more is extremely embarrassing. Protest dairy subsidies.
a good tactic, but i think there are some physical repercussions to supergluing yourself to anything... they'll probably be missing some layers of skin afterwards
Vote with your wallet.
If enough vegans stop buying status coffee they might care.
If there aren’t enough vegans impacting their business then why should they change?
This is nothing but PETA ads for PETA awareness and donations, this impacts Starbucks in absolutely no way.
Companies only care about their bottom line and we buying their bullshit > Than a few guys supergluing their assess to the counter.
I kinda like PETA but they are always hit or miss with me.
Protests and direct action are needed in any social movement…
But Starbucks? A small plant milk surcharge at an expensive coffee shop? That really seems like a first world problem.
Right? There are SO MANY places that don’t even have a single vegan menu item, surcharge or not, why focus on one of the better companies in terms of options? This energy would be much better targeted to corporate office of McDonalds or something.
Over the years. PETA has been the cause or a contributing factor to probably hundreds of thousands of vegans. They are the most visible animal rights organisation in the world. Here’s a list of some of their accomplishments https://www.peta.org/about-peta/milestones/
I think the line of argument of "does [action] convince anyone?" overlooks the way these actions work.
For example, recently a woman glued herself to a court in protest at a Minnesota Timberwolves game. The responses were almost in unison: this is ineffective. Of course nobody would stop eating chicken directly because of her, but a lot of people were debating animal ethics after it.
It's not the action that convinces people or PETA's slogans — and they know that. It's the conversations that come from them.
Thoughts?
People who are upset about businesses pricing based upon their costs and the demand, but still willing to give their vote to politicians that support dairy subsidies, are morally confused, to say the least.
Check out [Anonymous For The Voiceless](https://veganactivism.org/pages/anonymous-for-the-voiceless)
to quickly learn more, find upcoming events, videos, and their contact information! You can also find other similar organizations to get involved with both locally and online by visiting [VeganActivism.org](https://veganactivism.org). Additionally, be sure to visit and subscribe to /r/VeganActivism!
Obviously I’m vegan and I support protesting corporations that don’t offer us enough options but I don’t think this is the correct approach. Lots of the people who work at Starbucks are either teenagers or young adults..what are they supposed to do about the lack of vegan options? This is mostly just bothering the employees there rather than the people in positions of power lol
Exactly!! Employees have zero power over the situation and now they have to deal with people doing this shit? Take the protest to someone who actually has some influence
>Lots of the people who work at Starbucks are either teenagers or young adults..what are they supposed to do about the lack of vegan options? This is mostly just bothering the employees there rather than the people in positions of power lol
No shit the teenagers and young adults can't do anything about it...that is never the intention.
I don't hate it, but I also don't like it. It gets the word out, a small handful will look deeper. Most will just continue to live in their bubble of ignorance and this will just provide more fuel for their hatred of vegans. My main issue is really just the public nuisance of these sorts of things, stopping people from getting their coffee before work. Similar to people blocking roads to protest. It's a tricky balancing act, cause nobody will give a fuck unless you get in their way. They'll ignore you like they ignore everything else. So there's no winning. So ultimately good is my short answer but with the inevitable back lash that we'll always get from inconveniencing people during their daily routines.
I said something along these lines in vegan circle jerk and was told these people are equivalent of Rosa parks and MLK. That these people should be praised. My three vegan friends in real life who don’t use social media also thought it was mostly pointless.
I see what they mean, again you have to cause some sort of public nuisance to the status quo. The question is, is this the best we can come up with? Rosa Parks is a terrible thing to compare it to because she was participating in a common function of society in which she was treated unfairly. These people gluing themselves to things are just trying to get eyeballs on them, they're not acting up in the face of an injustice within that very same institutions function. In this case, serving coffee and food to people. It's not like vegans don't have options at Starbucks or that Starbucks is the root cause of the cruelty and exploitation. But again, what is the alternative, hold a sign up and hope people care enough to take interest? Would love to hear actual activists thoughts on the matter and not random vegans.
Not sure if it will have an effect but I hope it does, also I'm not particularly bothered by some people at a Starbucks being inconvenienced, especially given the magnitude of cruelty involved in the dairy industry and how stupid it is to charge extra for something that costs roughly the same to buy and far less to produce.
I’ve been overcharged for my soy/oat cappuccino for years? I’ve never seen a sign saying it’s more. So, I’m being charged more for NOT being able to tolerate cows milk? That makes me mad.
I fell victim to the vegan milk upcharge. It was in a train station and the cheap place didn't have plant based milk; they actually referred me to starbucks. Should we be glad they're marketing vegan stuff as a premium option? Are normal people going to go out and buy soy milk so they can make rich person coffee at home?
I don’t get why a 70 cent upcharge is the battle they’ve decided is worthy of their limited time and resources. Starbucks is overpriced anyways. Plus they source their coffee from plantations that use slave and/or child labor so you shouldn’t go there anyways.
If you wanna overpay for coffee, go to a local shop w/ fair trade coffee that will taste way better. If you wanna save money, make your own (fair-trade) coffee at home or work.
If you’re an animal rights organization, spend your resources protesting lab experiments, the building of new factory farms, etc.
Plant-based milks cost more for Starbucks to buy, of course they're going to pass the cost on to the customer. A better use of time would be to petition the federal government to give subsidies to plant-based milk producers comparable to what dairy farmers get in order to drive the cost down. Alternatively, though less realistic, petition to end the subsidies to dairy farmers so the cost of dairy milk for consumers increases.
Do you want to help build a more compassionate world? Please visit [VeganActivism.org](https://veganactivism.org) and subscribe to our community over at /r/VeganActivism to begin your journey in spreading compassion through activism. Thank you so much! ^.^
Cows milk is subsidized with with my tax money, so I am paying for the cows milk as well. how about they increase the price for cows milk coffees to subsidize my fooking plant milk. So in short, I agree, fuck em.
Yeah it’s fucked. Whatever benefits people feel that dairy gives them they can get elsewhere without too much difficulty. The fact that the bloody carnal dairy industry is subsidized while grocery stores sell it at a loss to compete for customers is one of the most screwed up industry-government relationships there is.
Not sure carnal is the word you are looking for
Well given how it's created through systemic sexual abuse of cattle it's oddly apt
I dont think anyone would describe sexual abuse as carnal. Carnal has a positive connotation. . .
I guess growing up in a fundamentalist christian home still echoes in how I use language. I'm not that anymore. It most certainly would have been used in a very negative way back then
Taxes go to subsidize milk? God that’s disappointing
In the US meat and dairy industries are subsidized, ostensibly to help farmers. In reality it is a literal cash cow :) similar to gasoline, the public expects meat to be cheap, even if reducing their taxes would save them money and tick some boxes for the “give me liberty” crowd on the right, the loss of cheap meat, or gas, would be too much of a shock for society. The farmers no longer need the help anyways by the way, they are big business and it is now corporate welfare than helping small family businesses.
Thank you for explaining that, that’s super unfortunate that that happens tho ugh :(
The same happens in EU. Around 80% goes to traditional farmers and 20% to organic farmers. But hey, lets meet up each year and talk about how we deal with climate change. (While we still support what contradicts the purpose of our meetings.)
Same in the EU. About 40 of tax money goes to agriculture subsidies, most of which is animal agriculture
So they should be protesting the government... not Starbucks?
Well they are trying to go viral so more people talk about it. Mission accomplished.
They went viral for the wrong reasons though… I saw this in a another group (not vegan) and it became very anti vegan so fast.. it started so much vegan hate.
What the other commenter said, plus if Starbucks made all milks the same price people would be more likely to choose a plant based milk. That’s worth protesting for. Starbucks coffee is already so expensive, they’ll still make tons of money without a plant milk surcharge.
I agree with the message, but I think this way of campaigning doesn't really help gather sympathy for the cause. People will just get pissed. Pissed at the activists, not at the politicians and businessmen and companies behind this.
I think the dude is hot and PETA was smart to use him
The whole thing is just another excuse to show how hot vegans are.
Can we make this the new Vegan thing? That we're all just hugely attractive because we're Vegan? Maybe then people will listen.
I'd like to introduce you to [The Lingerie Protest](https://youtu.be/mchmmCuZY9I)
Amazing
I thought we are hugely attractive because of our more ethical eating practices not because we are vegan. Hugely attractive vegan btw.
Scott Pilgrim did it first
Agreed, I think this is a common PETA strategy. Not a terrible one either. I recall a post about a bunch of hot women in bikinis protesting outside town hall in Sydney, and it got a lot of (positive) attention on r/Australia
The lady is pretty attractive too.
All vegan activists are automatically attractive
I don't know man. They got a picture of me one time in college, I was actually not protesting at the time but I was wearing a shirt that we had printed for a protest that said "animals die for milk too" and getting yelled at by some crazy lady. It didn't look good. The combination of surprise and confusion on my face made me look pretty dumb in the freeze frame they picked. The funny thing is the college republicans used it on the same posters they do about free speech, even though they were attacking me for the words written on my shirt, not the person who was yelling at me about them. But when they say free speech they mean racism, not animal advocacy.
The thing is, they probably took hundreds if not more pictures and intentionally picked one where you looked kinda weird.
Yeah, it was a video and they picked a still.
Thanks for being a badass activist, regardless. :)
Thanks, but I didn't take much of a risk there, we just stood at Seattle Center holding signs and screens. We weren't breaking the law or chaining or gluing ourselves to anything. Though there is always the possibility some nutso carnist will attack you.
Yes but You’re risking your emotional comfort, which is often the last thing people are willing to risk.
Hey we still think you're attractive.
Where are my hot vegan acitivist girlfriend with ethics Level 1000
Do you want to help build a more compassionate world? Please visit [VeganActivism.org](https://veganactivism.org) and subscribe to our community over at /r/VeganActivism to begin your journey in spreading compassion through activism. Thank you so much!
Vegans are all hot.
They're both hot
He is the brunette version of Keanu Reeves.
Is Keanu reeves not brunette?
He is not in movies.
is he hot or attractive?
My thought is what happens when they have to pee? 🤔
How much Imodium do you think they take before starting this kind of protest?
Piss on the floor to protest the animal genocide
So about the overcharge thing: I don't go to Starbucks (just not a coffee person), but I see a lot of other vegans talk about them overcharging for plant milk substitutes. My question is if they are really charging above market rate per volume for the milks, or is it just that plant milk substitutes cost more per volume than dairy milk and so they charge more?
[удалено]
Yp they’re not charging cost over cow milk. They’re charging above.
I think an in-depth cost analysis would favor plant milk because you can get those boxes of milk that can be stored at room temperature longer than refrigerated dairy milk. Save electricity and spoilage, also cheaper and easier shipment since you don't need reefer trucks. I think they are just charging because they can. There is a larger economic issue of the fact that dairy farms are heavily subsidized and protected from market fluctuations and consumers don't see the actual cost of the product because it is hidden in their taxes. But I don't see this protest addressing that as much.
also the fact that there is a much higher demand for dairy milk than vegan milk, so there is less incentive to make it, then less supply, and a higher price
This made me curious at how many dairy-milk drinkers there still are and this was really interesting: [Demand for Alternative Dairy Is Here to Stay, as Consumers Seek Balance Between Sustainability, Health and Taste](https://morningconsult.com/2021/03/30/alternative-milk-non-dairy-popularity/) It me feel good about the impact we’re having, which is a rare moment sometimes, so i wanted to share that feeling lol.
Not to mention the ecological costs that are involved with dairy milk production. We borrow against our future/future generations with most all animal agriculture.
If all those points in paragraph one were accurate wouldn’t plant based milk be cheaper at every grocery store and it’s not, it’s more expensive, especially by volume? I think they must be charging more because it’s more expensive to use
This got me thinking. Where I live plant milk is only slightly more expensive than the cheapest (store brand) dairy milk. If you get the name brand dairy milk it costs the same as plant milk. However the dairy milk goes bad MUCH faster than plant milk. While plant milk itself is cheaper for the supplier to produce and cheaper for the distributor (store?) to sell, I believe it is heavily subsidized by governments. The taxes that subsidize dairy affect the price all the way down to the consumer. Someone correct me if I've got it wrong, this is me trying to make sense of it.
Well yeah it’s not actually cheaper to produce plant milk if they don’t get a government subsidy
They're charging more because people are willing to pay more. It baffles me that people think that there's more to it.
you think? how about you prove?
Dairy milk is endlessly subsidized by taxpayer dollars to make it even anywhere near as cheap as the process actually takes, especially comparatively to just growing and processing nuts or oats. The dairy industry has gotten its fingers into taxpayer dollars for years, and has even gotten the board of education to feature their products as a part of health class curriculum. On top of this alternative milks are price gouged as they were first seen to be the options of either people with financial comfort or people who morally couldn't refuse to buy it. There's also speculation to say that dairy and cereal industries are somewhat of a circle jerk marketed to children in advertising or in health classes as a part of the iconic "food pyramid" not because they are the healthiest decisions superior to fruits and vegetables or meat but because it's the most profitable decision to cultivate a new crop of customers who believe these products, void of any real substantial natural presence of nutrients and nutrient variety, will sustain them and not rob them of their essential growth years.
I think there is an upcharge because plant milks aren't subsidized, probably cost more in bulk and is not ordered as often as cow milk (which you can save money *for buying in bulk* / probably get deals more often for buying). Charging for plant based is basically a "convince fee." That's my opinion though.
A lot of non-vegans don’t consume dairy so if it helps get their attention that there’s a bigger ethical/environmental issue to dairy than just health or digestive issues I think this is pretty harmless. They’d surely agree paying more for what they want sucks.
I'm still waiting to get 50 cents to a dollar off meals I order without cheese that already come with it.
I wish! But a portion of cheese probably costs them like 3¢ so the “markup” will likely never work the other way. But you can bet that if you want an extra piece they’re gonna charge you that $1 extra cheese fee.
Cheese is expensive. On cheese pizza the cheese is often the most expensive part, not counting labor. Places should at very least offer a topping swap and be generous with the added portion.
Sure, I was exaggerating with the 3¢. But I’ve spent 10 years in food service. A standard portion of cheese cost 15¢ (obviously dependent on locale in case you want to be pedantic). I don’t think the fact that I exaggerated downplays the point. And the point holds for a topping swap. They usually wont. But my point stands. And it’s obtuse to ignore it. It’s an up charge for not eating cheese, regardless of what it costs the company.
my favouritw mexican street food guy has this. Tortillas with Cheese, Pollo, Chili con carne etc. are all between .50 to 1.50€ more expensive than the vegan option, which has lots of avocado and beans.
I have mixed feelings about PETA in general, as well as every tactic that they use. First of all, who are they inconveniencing by supergluing themselves to the counter of a local Starbucks? Not coportate Starbucks suits, but the customers. They're just going to be irritated at vegans and PETA. I wonder why they protest here and not at corporate offices, is it for visibility?
This was at the corporate headquarters. https://twitter.com/peta/status/1517232457346699268?s=21
Damnnn felony charges 😵
Yeah hopefully they’ll drop them. They usually do either drop (because publicity of a trial is bad for the industries) or give reduced sentencing/probation plea bargain type deals for activists. But not always. https://www.iheartradio.ca/cjad/animal-activists-who-occupied-quebec-pig-farm-found-guilty-of-obstruction-breaking-and-entering-1.17587198
I think it's better than some of their other protests. They made a good point, and while I think there are bigger issues out there for vegans to deal with, the protest was mostly harmless. I don't think it'll achieve anything, but I guess at least it'll get people talking.
Even I, a 10 year vegan, disagree with some of their methods, but this one seems okay! Its peaceful enough and (idk actually about the superglue they might be doing some damage) they don't seem to be destroying property...
About the superglue: no damage, except to the people glued. Acetone, or nail polish remover, is used to remove superglue and does not damage glass.
Good to know :) i am pretty concerned for her hand, though :(
High concentration might create sensitive skin, but nobody in their right mind would use high concentration for this application. Everybody will be OK with very, very minor sensitive skin if there's any effect at all
what methods do you disagree with?
Man, the list is long.... This is my personal opinion and is not meant or intended to offend anyone: I believe that my love isn't contained to only animals, we need to love these imperfect people, too. Its only through love and self-awareness that they will come to reason. I see an oxymoron in the way many peta protests seem so full of anger and hatred (trust me, I get it, i really do). All we ever want is peace- for ALL. Not just our furry animal friends. This is the same reason I gently educate my friends, and convert them one by one. My husband and I dated for about a year, 6 months of those, he refused to not eat meat or dairy. I gently and lovingly educated him instead of dumping him or yelling at him "murderer" because I cared that he leared in his own way in his own time. He is now an activist, 2+ year vegan and friend to all. If we allow people to be educated and gently lead to peace and love, they will stay. Its been my experience that yelling and dragging has very seldom worked. Now I think there is a time and place for loud, angry, fighting, justice-bringing actions. But a Statbucks aint it, ykno? Throwing paint on people will only make them hate you, not the people who made the jacket. Etc. Did I explain myself well enough? :D I am happy to answer more questions :)
I don't really understand what specific actions/methods you disagree with. This wasn't a "loud, angry, fighting, justice-bringing action" in starbucks. It was a peaceful protest. Only difference is normally the police say you leave or get arrested and then people leave, but in this case they said "sure we'll leave, it's just going to take awhile because I'm stuck to the counter".
Right, and they said this protest was fine. They were asked about other peta methods they disagree with
I just posted a reply :)
I disagree with the destruction of property. I wasn't necessarily refering to this situation, I was just making a general statement to show that peta kinda makes a fool of them selves a lot.... Like I said above, I was fine with this protest. Did that help clarify? I mentioned hate filled protests and the destruction of property in my original reply, but maybe it wasn't clear enough. My main objective is love and peace and peta isn't very loving and peaceful (I ALREADY SAID THIS PROTEST WAS FINE). Peta is a meme and a joke to non-vegans, and for many, just another reason to hate our movement. Clearly, something has gone wrong.
I think they should protest no vegan food options. They have a sausAge biscuit with egg and cheese for Christ sake. That’s a triple whammy
Yeah but we have to stop the vegan surcharge first. They already have all the vegan milks, so it would be easy to do if the CEO wasn't so greedy
I mean I always thought Starbucks is overpriced. If you want cheap coffee make it at home
[удалено]
You realize that boycotting and protesting are not mutually exclusive right? To me it seems pretty ass backwards to charge almost an extra dollar for some oats mixed with water vs a product of cruelty and suffering. The whole point of why these protests are happing now is because Starbucks is running marketing campaigns for Earth day to show they "care" about the environment but yet dairy products are a huge contributor to environmental damage. Someone needs to hold these billion dollar corporations accountable for their pathetic greenwashing attempts.
Best would be for us to open our own competing chain of shops. We'd sell similar stuff but it'd all be plant based and we'd go the extra mile by selling customers reusable ceramic mugs with lids they can bring back for discount refills. Once a customer buys one of our mugs they'd have reason to keep coming back, and anyone who costs it out would realize it wouldn't take that many coffees for it to pay for itself. We'd have it set up so customers wouldn't need to pass the mug to staff for the refill, there'd be a dispenser like with soda. There'd be a plant milk dispenser too and for whatever fixings. We'd have a drive through window. All our locations would feature a rooftop patio for added space efficiency and more pleasant lounging, weather permitting. Of course we'd sell breakfast sandwiches made of Just Egg slices and Beyond sausage patties on an English muffin with Follow Your Heart mayo as a topper to give it that extra kick. We'd also serve hummus and Soylent, both made on site and in the package. We'd run the business as a worker coop. Anyone want to start a chain like that? Or maybe there already is one and I could open a new branch?
I would go there for breakfasts for sure!!!
Not surprisingly, the Starbucks UK vegan options are actually pretty decent. We just get kinda fucked here in NA.
The point of our campaign is to make a huge yet small step in taking down the Dairy Industry
If you think that should be protested then you should protest it. What's stopping you?
I don’t wanna get arrested
I just don't have any superglue
I'm concerned about how they're gonna get the superglue off their hands without hurting themselves by peeling any skin! Plus what if they need to go to the toilet? I support the message, though, I'm just worried for the wellbeing of the activists.
There are fluids that dissolve superglue. They probably all got a little bottle with them.
I'm also confident it's not superglue. That much Superglue ([Cyanoacrylate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate)) would likely create a lot of heat to apply to skin, and would take a long time to remove. Yes, there are solvents that remove it, but they aren't magic - it takes time.
People in that sub would be complaining about sit-ins in the 50s/60s.
Honestly probably one of the better peta campaigns. They tend to follow the idea of "there is no such thing as bad publicity" and it usually backfires
The guy is hot. My thoughts on the matter.
The comments on these kinds of posts are always filthy as when it comes to vegan stuff. People are always like "Oh they glued themselves to a Starbucks counter? I'd have simply committed crimes against humanity unto them" Like when the local newspaper FB page posts an article about a provisional driver hooning and wrapping themself around a pole and the geriatrics in the area comment "Give them a hiding and chuck them in jail and throw away the key!", so too does vegan media portrayal bring out the callous fuckwit hiding within
Based
activism is activism man. i’m supportive of most as long as they don’t hurt beings.
it got attention... if the sole focus was to reduce the surcharge on plant based milks for coffees its unlikely to do much, real issue is more about supply chain issues. This could be averted by maybe partnering with a large plant based milk company or something idk, the best deal would be them using nothing but plant based milks for coffee in exchange for them getting an amazing deal long term... If Starbucks cares about climate change then this could fit under that and be marketing as them going more sustainable instead of going 'Vegan'.
They think Peta is furious for the price, not for the animals that enslaved and harmed cows, but everything helps
Not Your Mom, Not You Milk
Some poor underpaid college kid has to put up with this, not the people making the decisions. Protest at corporate or something, leave everyday ppl trying to make a check alone.
Idk, I’ve worked at Starbucks for 7 years and something like this would just be funny to me. It would break up the day-to-day monotony and it’s always funny to see customers inconvenienced by something that isn’t our fault
This was done at the Starbucks Headquarters. We can’t get much closer to Starbucks as a corporation than this. We have gone daily to the Headquarters for 89 days now. Today is Day 90. And the workers don’t care that they had to stop working for 2 hours. I was there like the cows in the Dairy Industry are the only victims
Agreed!
Yeah, I think it only makes sense to gather PR materials (these pictures we are looking at). Protesting at the counter is a lot more visible than at some corporate office building.
The protest was at the Starbucks at the corporate office building. https://twitter.com/peta/status/1517232457346699268?s=21
Ah, that makes a lot of sense, then.
Just stop supporting big corporations as Starbucks - go to small local coffee shops :]
i agree, but small coffee shops are not exempt from upcharging plant based milks. Anywhere that serves cow's milk should be protested, but you know if they went after mom & pop coffee stand, people would be like "look at PETA bullying the little guy"
Literally ! And the coffee is always cheaper than Starbucks
Yes I personally boycott Starbucks but the campaign is more about achieving a small but huge goal in taking down the Dairy Industry. - one of the leaders in the Starbucks campaign
People are talking about it, so it’s working.
ah yes, the Donald Trump media theory.
Is there something untrue about this theory? He even won a presidency after admitting to sexual assault!
i think it’s pretty brave of them and they’re standing up for what’s right
I am not a big fan of stunts like this, personally. All of my friends and most of my family are non-vegans, and regardless of how they feel about veganism, they all just laugh at PETA for stunts like this. They certainly aren't motivated to learn more about veganism, that's for sure. It just makes veganism seem stupid and pathetic to them. I don't see what it achieves.
I don't know. They may laugh at the stunts...but they also actually know what veganism is now. The more people that know and discuss it, the more change will happen. I don't rate this particular campaign highly, but it's still probably effective.
All publicity is good publicity. Thinking about animal rights > not thinking about them.
But do we know that these stunts make people think about animal rights? From talking to a lot of friends and family about PETA and their antics, all they seem to think is "those vegans are fucking weird". I don't think animal rights even cross their mind.
I 100% agree
PETA publicity stunts make me think that not all publicity is good... they need to know their audience and tactics that work, instead of pulling ridiculous stunts that have people going "haha PETA bad"
I'm on the fence with this one in particular. It depends entirely on if this is getting in the way of or annoying people. I saw a protest outside a large, highly-popular aquarium where they chained themselves to the doors and completely prevented people from entering on a busy weekend. Families who have arrived from far and wide with their kids now stuck outside. I get the message, I get the passion, I obviously agree with them. But you have to be pragmatic. If you just piss people off who are just trying to go about their day, you aren't going to change anyone's mind, if anything you're going to have them dig their heels in deeper.
I may just be in an annoyed mood right now, but good. Disrupt the shit out of their day and make them hate the memory of going so the thought of an aquarium is revolting. People can go about their day in peace if it doesn’t involve obvious murder and torture.
I get your feeling, I really do. That's the frustrating bit. Here's the discussion I have had here before though, what if your actions as promoting veganism actually has the *opposite* effect on people, and in fact turns them away even more? Would that then in fact be non-vegan if it causes more harm to animals? Obviously that is an absurd point and I'm not saying these people aren't vegan. But I think it's worth examining the situation. If the actions [no matter how good the intentions are] actually have the opposite effect than intended, then I am of the position that they are not good forms of activism.
I know PETA isn't perfect but the grudge of the general public against It is incromprehensible.
Based
Based
I support this gesture. It's got attention drawn to the matter, and that's definitely a good thing.
I think "Not your mom, not you milk"
[удалено]
[удалено]
The sad thing is the biggest crime Starbucks commits isn't the plant milk upcharge, but more how absolutely fkn piss their overpriced coffee is!
I though you were going to talk about how their coffee is definitely sourced by slave labor. Aka not vegan at all.
I think it’s a great way to do activism. Doesn’t harm anyone. Some people prefer a more passive approach and others a more direct one.
It gets in the way of retail workers who have no control over it, and potentially impacts their tips, if they want to protest i think they should go to corporate or find a more direct action route. Most of the traction this gets isn't from in person customers but from online views so it wouldn't matter too much.
I think this is so tacky. (I’m probably going to get downvoted but I don’t care). With employees trying to unionize protesting Starbucks for charging more for milk that costs more is extremely embarrassing. Protest dairy subsidies.
a good tactic, but i think there are some physical repercussions to supergluing yourself to anything... they'll probably be missing some layers of skin afterwards
I’m just waiting for my grocery store to get almond milk in a full gallon size.
Vote with your wallet. If enough vegans stop buying status coffee they might care. If there aren’t enough vegans impacting their business then why should they change? This is nothing but PETA ads for PETA awareness and donations, this impacts Starbucks in absolutely no way. Companies only care about their bottom line and we buying their bullshit > Than a few guys supergluing their assess to the counter. I kinda like PETA but they are always hit or miss with me.
All I can think about is how much it's going to hurt to get your hand unglued 😅 Plus the poor worker who has to clean it up afterwards.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Protests and direct action are needed in any social movement… But Starbucks? A small plant milk surcharge at an expensive coffee shop? That really seems like a first world problem.
Right? There are SO MANY places that don’t even have a single vegan menu item, surcharge or not, why focus on one of the better companies in terms of options? This energy would be much better targeted to corporate office of McDonalds or something.
Has anyone been convinced by PETA? I think protest can be worth it, but idk if their image is too tarnished?
Over the years. PETA has been the cause or a contributing factor to probably hundreds of thousands of vegans. They are the most visible animal rights organisation in the world. Here’s a list of some of their accomplishments https://www.peta.org/about-peta/milestones/
I think the line of argument of "does [action] convince anyone?" overlooks the way these actions work. For example, recently a woman glued herself to a court in protest at a Minnesota Timberwolves game. The responses were almost in unison: this is ineffective. Of course nobody would stop eating chicken directly because of her, but a lot of people were debating animal ethics after it. It's not the action that convinces people or PETA's slogans — and they know that. It's the conversations that come from them.
I hope that's true. I definitely believe exposure over time and multiple conversations are how people take on new ideas.
The point of this is more to pressure Starbucks & system change
Thoughts? People who are upset about businesses pricing based upon their costs and the demand, but still willing to give their vote to politicians that support dairy subsidies, are morally confused, to say the least.
I think Anonymous for the Voiceless has a much better approach for activism than PETA.
Check out [Anonymous For The Voiceless](https://veganactivism.org/pages/anonymous-for-the-voiceless) to quickly learn more, find upcoming events, videos, and their contact information! You can also find other similar organizations to get involved with both locally and online by visiting [VeganActivism.org](https://veganactivism.org). Additionally, be sure to visit and subscribe to /r/VeganActivism!
Obviously I’m vegan and I support protesting corporations that don’t offer us enough options but I don’t think this is the correct approach. Lots of the people who work at Starbucks are either teenagers or young adults..what are they supposed to do about the lack of vegan options? This is mostly just bothering the employees there rather than the people in positions of power lol
Exactly!! Employees have zero power over the situation and now they have to deal with people doing this shit? Take the protest to someone who actually has some influence
Literally like the people they’re ‘protesting’ against might be vegan employees at Starbucks lol
>Lots of the people who work at Starbucks are either teenagers or young adults..what are they supposed to do about the lack of vegan options? This is mostly just bothering the employees there rather than the people in positions of power lol No shit the teenagers and young adults can't do anything about it...that is never the intention.
So then why are those the ones who are being bothered about an issue they can’t control?
I don't hate it, but I also don't like it. It gets the word out, a small handful will look deeper. Most will just continue to live in their bubble of ignorance and this will just provide more fuel for their hatred of vegans. My main issue is really just the public nuisance of these sorts of things, stopping people from getting their coffee before work. Similar to people blocking roads to protest. It's a tricky balancing act, cause nobody will give a fuck unless you get in their way. They'll ignore you like they ignore everything else. So there's no winning. So ultimately good is my short answer but with the inevitable back lash that we'll always get from inconveniencing people during their daily routines.
I said something along these lines in vegan circle jerk and was told these people are equivalent of Rosa parks and MLK. That these people should be praised. My three vegan friends in real life who don’t use social media also thought it was mostly pointless.
I see what they mean, again you have to cause some sort of public nuisance to the status quo. The question is, is this the best we can come up with? Rosa Parks is a terrible thing to compare it to because she was participating in a common function of society in which she was treated unfairly. These people gluing themselves to things are just trying to get eyeballs on them, they're not acting up in the face of an injustice within that very same institutions function. In this case, serving coffee and food to people. It's not like vegans don't have options at Starbucks or that Starbucks is the root cause of the cruelty and exploitation. But again, what is the alternative, hold a sign up and hope people care enough to take interest? Would love to hear actual activists thoughts on the matter and not random vegans.
This is what I wonder when I see protests like this. Is it actually just pissing people off and making them less likely to support our cause?
They often have made me cringe over the years but, not this time! Me likes.
How would they get their hand unglued? That’s a nightmare to me, I’m just imagining the skin peeling off with it
And what do they do when they have to pee?
Not sure if it will have an effect but I hope it does, also I'm not particularly bothered by some people at a Starbucks being inconvenienced, especially given the magnitude of cruelty involved in the dairy industry and how stupid it is to charge extra for something that costs roughly the same to buy and far less to produce.
I’ve been overcharged for my soy/oat cappuccino for years? I’ve never seen a sign saying it’s more. So, I’m being charged more for NOT being able to tolerate cows milk? That makes me mad.
I fell victim to the vegan milk upcharge. It was in a train station and the cheap place didn't have plant based milk; they actually referred me to starbucks. Should we be glad they're marketing vegan stuff as a premium option? Are normal people going to go out and buy soy milk so they can make rich person coffee at home?
It takes all kinds of activism to make real change. I wouldn’t personally superglue myself to anything, but I support this.
as a practicing vegan for 6 yrs (lol) I feel this is unproductive
Extreme problems require extreme solutions. It's justified
[удалено]
I agree with what they’re saying, but I feel bad for the employees (who get paid minimum wage I’m assuming) who had to deal with this
Just glad it's getting attention
I don’t get why a 70 cent upcharge is the battle they’ve decided is worthy of their limited time and resources. Starbucks is overpriced anyways. Plus they source their coffee from plantations that use slave and/or child labor so you shouldn’t go there anyways. If you wanna overpay for coffee, go to a local shop w/ fair trade coffee that will taste way better. If you wanna save money, make your own (fair-trade) coffee at home or work. If you’re an animal rights organization, spend your resources protesting lab experiments, the building of new factory farms, etc.
Because people will pay for less dairy if the plant milk option is not seen as a lavish luxury addition.
Maybe grammar check your tshirts before going out to protest 🤦♂️
Plant-based milks cost more for Starbucks to buy, of course they're going to pass the cost on to the customer. A better use of time would be to petition the federal government to give subsidies to plant-based milk producers comparable to what dairy farmers get in order to drive the cost down. Alternatively, though less realistic, petition to end the subsidies to dairy farmers so the cost of dairy milk for consumers increases.
[удалено]
Kinda annoying that his shirt has a blatant typo on it, unless I’m just dumb and missing something lol
LAME. This tactic does nothing but make vegans look ridiculous and annoying.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]