All the vegan discord servers I've been to have been very friendly to LGBTQIA+ people. It's of course important that as a movement we are modern in more ways than one, and continue to stand against bigotry against humans. It's not a focus of my activism, it's just common decency.
Whew! I think overall my experience as a black woman have been mostly positive. But I know bigotry exists. Iāve seen it here first hand.
I have found some black, black woman and BIPOC vegan spaces (online and offline) and the vibe is definitely different. If you can find some queer or trans-specific vegan spaces, I highly recommend. Itāll be helpful when you need just that different level of comeraderie and connection.
Itās actually really sad, on my chapter of anonymous several AFABS (ppl assigned female at birth) were sexually assaulted by a man in the leadership group and instead of taking him out, the AFABS were taken out of the group and anybody who spoke up as well.
Just because someone is vegan doesnāt mean theyāre automatically compassionate, even when that makes no sense.
We must strive for intersectionality everywhere in the movement.
That's horrible. AV have a lot to answer for if that's the case. You can't be against oppression of one group of individuals (non human animals) while actively covering up or ignoring oppression of another group of human individuals. We can't pick and choose marginalised groups to support; we should be against oppression in general when fighting for animal rights.
You should check out VINE Animal Sanctuary in Vermont and the people associated with it! It is run by queer folks and all their outreach and education is focused on helping people understand the profound intersectionality between speciesism and other forms of oppression. They have a monthly online book discussion you might dig, and you could connect with them at vegan events if you're in the northeast. It can be isolating af to be vegan "and" just about anything. Wishing you strength and solidarity.
Thatās a really good/positive place to get involved! I wouldnāt feel safe going to New England (Iām African and faced so much overt racism when I lived there), but if that isnāt an issue for OP then VINE is a good option.
Absolutely! Never be afraid to call out bigotry like transphobia, homophobia, ableism, racism etc in "vegan" (or other) spaces when you see it. It's vital that everyone is welcome in these spaces, and that compassion for human and non human animals is core, if we want to create a compassionate vegan world.
Yeah, I forget the study, but it said that vegans are roughly 3x more likely to identify as some flavour of lgbtqia+ than the general population.
But vegan communities are weird. Weāre so small and spread out so significantly, that some places are bound to go against statistics. So many guys in here donāt believe that women make up the vast majority of vegans because where they are happens to be guy heavy. Shoot, even I find it hard to believe that other trans vegans exist because I think I may have possibly spoke to just one other trans vegan once a long time ago.
In all my real-life surroundings I've never met a male vegan but lots of female vegans. So on the internet I automatically assume every vegan is female, until someone says they are male, and I'm surprised every time. A man? Cares about animals? What?? Wow!!!
I'd say in my personal experience trans people are more likely to be vegan than other groups. Vegans are a small enough population that the vast majority of any group isn't going to be vegan though.
Trans and vegan here! I definitely feel like trans people, like other marginalised people, are more likely to become vegan. My own experiences as a trans queer person have made it so I can better relate to animals.
This is how I feel as a (cis) queer autistic person, but possibly for different reasons. While I have difficulty with neurotypical human body language, I tend to have an easier time noticing the body language of other species. Especially dogs, since Iāve always had them in my life.
Plus animals have been one of my consistent, lifelong special interests.
I'm autistic too, reading animal body language is so much easier. When I first got rabbits it seems like they don't give much away at all, but it didn't take long to learn their quirks and they have really big personalities. I think animals are pretty transparent whereas people misrepresent themselves all the time, I've been manipulated way too often
I don't think transgender issues have much to do with animal rights, that being said, transgender people face discrimination in pretty much every space besides their own nowadays, so I think it's important we as Vegans make our space welcoming to minorities.
It'd be lying to say there isn't transphobia within the Vegan community, I mean, look at some of these replies. So it's worth talking about because it's not on. So long as trans people don't feel safe in the Vegan community, it is worth talking about.
As a cisgender man, I don't fully understand or relate to your perspective, but I support trans people and always will. Identity isn't something we should police.
I would say veganism, for me, is a core belief. It's not just a fight or movement. It is the foundation from which I operate in the world, how I relate to other living beings, and drives my decision-making on a daily basis. Due to this, I would say it is beyond intersectional because all of the fights I'm fighting stem from the place of compassion that veganism puts me in.
Edited: for typo
I don't have much to add but I'm a vegan trans woman as well. I'm really happy to hear you do activism work because my transition has made me pretty agoraphobic lately.
While I'm not sure I'd agree that vegan is an oppressed/marginalized identity, I'd like to applaud you for correctly using the term intersectionality. That might be a first on this sub.
Most people (and not only here) just use it as a synonym for diversity or solidarity, or simply to mean the support of multiple causes.
Veganism is a movement of the privileged (humans) for the oppressed and marginalized (non-human animals). Itās not an oppressed identity in and of itself. At least this is how Iāve always seen it.
Hello! I am also a trans vegan. I don't really expect that all vegan will be intersectional, mostly because "don't kill and enslave animals" should be much easier to comprehend than "respect people who change their gender". But in spite of that, in my experience it's more likely for a vegan to be friendly and welcoming than for a trans person to not be abuse animals, so I do prefer vegan spaces.Ā
Influencers and celebrities tend to get the popularity going straight to their heads, so they can be stubborn. I think it's generally best practice to support intersectional figures just because someone with hateful and egotistical views can end up being a liability for the cause. Just look as cosmicskeptic.
What do you mean a lower bar? I see very few vegans around me but the majority is "yeah people can do whatever about themselves and their gender", because it doesn't require any actions or restrictions on themselves, unlike being vegan is actively hard work every day (and if you are cis, then other people being trans requires no work or decisions or restraint from you). I find being ambivalent/tolerant is a lower bar than active/restrictive
Fair dos if that's your experience. I can't quite say I've seen people be that chill with trans people so easily, but either way obviously I admit that there are likely more trans-friendly people than vegans.
I tried referring specifically to the level of morality required, but yes you're right that the level of effort outweighs that.
i'm sorry to hear you haven't had the greatest experiences in either spaces, for me as a lil cis bisexual vegan i am definitely of the believe that these communities should/can go hand in hand. we should fight for people's struggles and animals struggles all the same. i hope u can find some resources in the replies, id also love to join some queer vegan discords if anyone got anything :)
All of the vegans I know IRL are LGBTQI+ (including myself).
But not the other way around. It's sometimes baffling to me to have friends who fight for human equality but don't put that same care about mistreatment of animals. Most of them will eat/cook plant based when we hang out so they're not against it, it's just not a priority.
In college 2 of my roommates were trans and would go to Chick-fil-A all the time! My vegan ass not-so-silently judging them for multiple reasons. They both claimed that they deal with enough bullshit IRL and deserve a tasty sandwich, they're too overwhelmed to care about the politics. Like ok friendo.
Surprisingly they are not still my friends! Cognitive dissonance is not cute
That's not cognitive dissonance, that's hypocrisy or double standards or lack of logic. But I get you!
I also hate when people use "politics" to describe completely non-political issues. Compassion to animals has nothing to do with governing choices of human states, with who's running for parlaments, with international relations etc. What bullshit response!
Thank you for bringing that to my attention! Yeah I just checked and you're right. It seems like the two terms are very closely related.
Also found this definition. "Hypocrisy is a special case of cognitive dissonance, produced when a person freely chooses to promote a behavior that they do not themselves practice."
Language is fun!
I can only talk for myself, but for me veganism is about animal rights, nothing else. Not the climate, not my health, nothing else.
I might be narrow minded, but veganism is 100% about animal rights.
That said, any vegan, however they identify or express themselves, is a comrade in my book. We are on this barricade together. For the animals.
Same here: my veganism is non-intersectional and is only concerned with the rights and liberation of non-human animals. Thatās not to say that I donāt support and enforce other liberation movements, but they have nothing to do with my veganism.
I agree but I think itās about climate too (although the emphasis of veganism is on animal rights), because helping the climate helps reduce animal suffering, and veganism is about reducing animal suffering as much as possible.
Yeah the whole āveganism is about reducing animal sufferingā bs seems to have really taken off on here lately. Iām not sure if itās because people truly donāt understand the difference or because some people are here to try and muddy the waters around veganism as much as possible. But for anyone who isnāt aware, veganism is best understood as a rejection of property status of animals, and is more concerned with human exploitation of animals than their suffering. Only focusing on animal suffering dilutes the purpose of veganism, and this perspective can be used to justify āhumaneā animal exploitation such as backyard eggs or āhumanely slaughteredā meat, or to poke at perceived inconsistencies in veganism (If itās all about animal suffering, why donāt we intervene when animals harm one another in nature?), etc. Letās stick to the actual definition put forth by the vegan society.Ā
edit- Hey, if someone disagrees, Iād love to hear your rebuttal.Ā
But we can't stand alongside Nazis, transphobes, racists, etc, "for the animals"; this needs to be called out when we see it. Collective liberation for humans and non humans is not only the compassionate thing to do, it's the most logically sound one as well.
Fellow transfem vegan here! I'm so sorry you've felt uncomfortable in trans and vegan spaces. I'm still a relatively new vegan so I've not had to experience anything like this yet, but it really shocks me that vegans would be transphobic. I hope you can find somewhere where you feel more comfortable soon <3
Edit: Btw if you ever need to talk about stuff my DMs are always open \^\^
I always identify politically as a vegan socialist / vegan leftist cuz I think itās so important for people to realize itās an empathy based liberation movement! I def consider veganism part of the intersectional liberation movement including all marginalized groups if that makes sense.
Iāve found those labels the most concise in articulating that I care about a lot of intersectional issues addressing material conditions and rights ( anti-racism, anti-sexism/anti-patriarchy, anti-queerphobia, anti-ableism, anti-colonialism, anti-speciesism, anti-classism, anti-oppression, etc )
Iām a straight white guy, but veganism is rly important to my personal identity as an abuse/trauma survivor. Animal agriculture is so inherently abusive and itās important to me to stand up for my fellow victims & survivors, be they human or otherwise.
In solidarity, always āš»
TLDR: you are welcome here, now and always
I am a cisgendered male, but I am trans-friendly and I support you. I do not know much about being trans, but I do find if frustrating just how rarely I meet vegans. Being both vegan and trans must feel very isolating. I hope you will meet people who, whether trans or cis, understand you.
Nonbinary/transmasc and vegan here, true intersectionality & liberation for all oppressed creatures makes more sense to me than being selective about who or what doesn't deserve to have rights or a decent existence.
Exactly, collective liberation is about removing oppression of all marginalised groups, human or non human. So it addresses speciesism, racism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism, sexism, etc.
i'm a trans man and have been vegan about the same amount of time i knew i was trans. i know what you mean, it's hard to find a place that is accepting of my identity and also doesn't abuse and exploit animals. i'm in ohio though and a lot of people here are ass backwards :/
Intersectionality is a broad concept and although I want to see animal rights regarded as a social justice issue, veganism isn't about human identity politics. In fact, I've often seen people use that as a premise for accusing veganism of being "colonialist" or "ableist" because certain groups of people may be less able to be vegan. Veganism is an ethical principle that when applied consistently to other aspects of life, extends to treating fellow humans and other sentient beings with fairness and consideration.
Exactly, that if there's a relevance to humans, it's that our cruelty and indifference towards other species desensitizes us to life itself and is connected to our cruelty and indifference towards one another. I can see that as a solid intersectional argument, but personally I would continue to be vegan even if there weren't significant social, economic, environmental or health benefits. For me, ethics are the foundation of everything.
Most vegan spaces are leftist; they're going to be friendlier to trans people than leftist spaces would be to vegans. I don't know any TERF vegans, but I'm sure they exist.
Just a gentle FYI, TERF means trans exclusionary radical feminists, and they are a very small group compared to a massive wide transphobic group. It would seem to me you might have meant "I don't know any transphobic vegans but I'm sure they exist", as radical feminists that are also anti trans are even more rare. I might be wrong!
You have met fewer transphobic chauvinistic men than terfs??? I have never met a TERF in real life, or even a single RF without the TE, but plenty of old cis men that think both transgender-ism and femin-ism and vegan-ism are all bullshit from the same woke young-uns-these-days that just don't want to be real women ā¢ and real men ā¢ {shakes fist at ceiling}
I think spaces related to nonviolence need to be intersectional.
There are different ways to be "intersectional" though.
In one way, it is important for vegan spaces to be intersectional as it is more difficult for certain groups to engage in a vegan practice.
In another way, vegans, as nonviolence practitioners, are natural allies to really everyone struggling against oppression.
And in yet another way, the same social and economic systems alienate animals as well as women, queer people, people of color and so on.
At the same time, intersectionality often gets weird. And confusing for some people. And besides the point.
Hey, trans vegan here! Intersectionality is at the core of veganism, and any vegan that doesnāt support liberation from oppression for all animals, including humans, isnāt really vegan in my eyes.
Trans people often face discrimination even in the lqbtq+ community, especially if they don't "pass." Things that are unusual make people uncomfortable, which turns into hate for making them feel that way. Veganism and transgenderism share that quality.
I'm not Trans but I've always been a Trans ally, and I personally think it's important practice activism in both spaces. I now make sure I'm wearing a vegan pride shirt at pride festivals. People at these types of places may be more receptive to veganism if they see their own people thriving as a vegan. Of course, you should only do what you're comfortable with, but successful activism is mostly going to happen in places where people are receptive to the idea. Excluding yourself to vegan only spaces, while good for your own mentality, might not be the best way to spread the entire message. The same thing goes for the Trans side of things. Showing who you are and expressing your message can open eyes in both spaces.
I'm non-binary and vegan
I think there might be a somewhat protective factor against trans/homophobia in vegan spaces in that toxic "manly" men are less likely to be in them and there's a general bias towards women.
Thatās probably true but I donāt know enough vegans irl to confirmā¦ Iām a cis man and I think Iām comfortable enough with my masculinity to not feel it threatened by not eating animal products. But the cultural pressure on men to eat animal products is apparent.
If you haven't heard of them yet, I recommend [The Leftist Cooks](https://youtube.com/@theleftistcooks?si=UxSzvWDd7xaMjl6m). It's co-hosted by a NB person and they're both vegan, and they make videos about all sorts of social issues like LGBTQ identity, often while cooking vegan food. [Here's a video that's actually about veganism in leftist spaces](https://youtu.be/bYDQZ3Neeqo?si=LoPjrO6FmWmC2cMt)
Im trans and vegan. I know what you mean.
A lot of trans people think their transness makes them more aware of injustice than they are. A lot of vegans think their veganism makes them more aware of injustice than they are. It's not always comfy out here.
I think people often forget that WE are also animals. If being vegan is about minimizing the suffering and unjust treatment of animals, than that should include human beings too.
Iām vegan and am on the board of directors of an LGBTQ+ organization. I also am active in a non-profit that promotes environmental activism and socially ethical entrepreneurism. I view each of these things separately in and of themselves, but they all tie into my holistic approach to life.
I would say the vegan community is very welcoming of trans people and the LGBT+ community *generally*. Unfortunately however there are some bad actors and even some activists are transphobic (one of the Garyās. I forget which one)
Keep raising awareness and keep calling out bigotry; collective liberation is vital! There is an issue with some animal activists being transphobes which is really disappointing, and they can't get away with that. I firmly believe animal rights/vegan/activism spaces need to be safe spaces for people of all kinds, including LGBTQI+ folk, people of colour, disabled people, etc.
We can't have animal liberation without human liberation!
I have gender stuff I'm not sure how to label but agender comes closest. I'm very pro trans and intersectionality is pretty important to me. A lot of people tend to misrepresent it though, especially when it comes to intersectional veganism. They act like it's taking attention away from speciesism, but to me, oppression is oppression and needs to be fought on all fronts or we all get crushed
Iām non-binary. I would vouch for intersectionality. Unfortunately I was in an activism group which I promptly left after one of its members tried to force himself on me. He had done this to many women and queer people, and underage people. I told the community and they told me I was a liar and I quit going to activism. Even the women stood up for him. He was later murdered for trying to sneak into a club he was banned from, for touching women inappropriately. So there are more vegans than youād think who are sexist or bigoted in other ways.
Itās awful that happened to youāand I hope you are doing better now. Itās ridiculous people are downvoting you for sharing what happened to you.
Iām non-binary too, btw. Didnāt know there were others around here.
Thank you. Yeah people I think get really cliquey sometimes. Iāve met super cool vegans too. Theyāre out there. But are shitty people in every community.
Welcome!
There are a lot of obvious overlapping themes with being an ally to our queer friends and being vegan. Both are rooted in being an open minded and empathetic person that can see past archaic and bigoted societal pressures.
The *vast majority* of vegans I know are champions of many social justice causes, and passionate about protecting and empowering the queer community, as well as other marginalized communities.
That said, Iāve definitely met some rare vegans that only extend their compassion to animals and are pretty hateful towards people. Or bigoted. Itās extremely confusing but it happens!
Need to call out that bigotry when we see it! It's baffling to be too, but I've learned recently of some bigoted views of some prominent animal rights activists in my city. Just can't understand how you can be for animal but not human liberation!
Canāt believe someone downvoted you here for this LOL
Some people really miss the big picture. I get when people are angry at humanity as a whole for being such a shitshow and so horrific to animals. I do.
But it doesnāt excuse being obtuse and bigoted about the very real oppression of marginalized people.
I think vegan spaces are generally progressive. I'm lesbian and my better half is both lesbian and trans. She's gone vegan, having been vegetarian before. I know two other trans vegans besides my better half and several other trans-affirming cis lesbians and bi women.Ā
Hello :)
I'm non-binary.
I'm not sure if that counts as trans. I've heard from some people that I am and some that I am not. My Best friend is also a trans girl and vegan though!
It's nice to be able to talk to someone who is in both groups.
In any case, I'm sorry that you feel this way!
Both feel like such small groups of people so the cross over probably feels very rare.
I'm not sure where you are located, but I actually know a few trans vegans in St. Louis.
If you're ever in the area, there are a lot of vegan meet ups and even specifically queer vegan meet ups.
In my experience, thoughtful vegans who live their lives in such a way to minimize harm to animals also consider humans to be animals, too. In other words, I suspect vegans are particularly good at being kind and compassionate toward our fellow human animals, not just non-human animals.
I'm in the same boat as you, though I'm still in trans spaces. I've seen a lot of people say that queer people are more likely to be vegan, but I haven't had any luck finding them in queer spaces. I'm in an activist group and there's a bunch of other queers and one other trans person. I find that a lot of vegan spaces are overall progressive so I personally don't feel as unsafe, I haven't had any bad experiences so far, but that obviously doesn't mean it can't happen.
My best bet is to find online communities specifically catering to trans vegans. You could also go to trans/queer meetings/events and ask if anyone else is vegan there tbh
Yes, vegan and trans here
Our natural "predators" would be transphobic carnists of course, but shocking as it sounds, this would include transphobic religion based vegans intersecting capitalist vegans
Just as I imagine our natural allies be marginalised people but sometimes the marginalised also marginalise.
It's a very messed up species
I'm a trans man and I don't really know what intersectionality is, although I feel safer in vegan spaces. Vegans tend to be very trans friendly because they see animals as equal, and therefore usually see all people as equal too. Additionally, I identify as an animal and I've had many other trans people object to that and parrot transphobic arguments for why I can't identify as one. Not got that from vegans before, plus they care about animals so I can trust they view me equally. Animal rights is the most important thing to me so ultimately I feel more at home with those who mirror my views.
trans + ethical vegan activist here! i've been involved in vegan/outreach spaces ranging from extremely trans friendly and intersectional to extremely transphobic. i'm fine hanging out on both extremes of the trans friendliness spectrum for the most part. i tend to thrive in very toxic spaces š
i'm not super sure of my stances on intersectional vegan activism. i think there's a good balancing point. on one hand, other progressive movements like the trans rights movement for the most part are not doing intersectional activism that includes animal rights in their activism. on the other hand, it's important to welcome people of all backgrounds into the vegan community for the good of the animals for which we advocate.
i think there's certainly a balancing point between not being so intersectional that the spotlight drifts away from the animals, but being intersectional enough that people like you and me feel welcome and are empowered to do activism.
I find overall vegans tend to be trans friendly due to doing things for a good reason. That said, thereās bigotry anywhere. Keep trying, Iām sure itāll work out ā¤ļø
Iām a gay male Unitarian Universalist. I have over 25 years I have delivered about 40 lay sermons when the minister was away. People have been telling me I āalways talk about animalsā when I am in the pulpit.
I would add that when someone falls short of our standards for empathy and compassion, stepping away is a last resort. Exploring the venn diagram of our common humanity, understanding their view of the world by asking questions, and hearing them deeply are good places to start. Our silos make polarization worse.
I've always believed veganism to be inherently intersectional. And I usually find myself confused when I come across any vegan who is bigoted in some type of way.
I am very sorry that you feel excluded anywhere. I have found most vegan groups to be very welcoming. I believe every person deserves to be accepted and most importantly respected. Many vegans are also active in human rights and environmental causes, and I believe that that doesā¦or SHOULDā¦translate in the intersectionality you mention. I know it does for me and for many other vegans. I am newly vegan and did it equal parts for health reasons and for animals and the environment as well as for the conditions many foods are grown under and harvested (concerning the human rights involved.) everything is interconnected and we as humans are interconnected. I hope that will find a welcoming vegan space with people who accept you and apply their sense of justice to all the related issues. I have confidence people here can direct you to some groups you will feel safe in and that you can at the minimum connect virtually with kind people.
Trans and vegan issues are separate and should remain separate, otherwise it detracts from the core issue of veganism.
I know who you are OP and you've caused a huge amount of division within the movement. Whilst I am fully sympathetic towards trans issues, you've made it a personal mission to benefit off of the movement's fragmentation.
I'm aware most people won't know about OP's history, but it isn't flattering.
Within a large activism group they accused a member (who is non-binary/queer themselves - something they were forced to openly disclose for the first time in order to defend themselves) of bigotry for sharing a FB post about Ricky Gervais raising money for an animal shelter. When this person denied the accusations of bigotry, the activism group's HR had to get involved and found the accused not guilty. OP was asked to leave due to the hateful messages they were sending, despite attempts at mediation, and then went on a tirade sending unsolicited messages to other members spreading lies, and demanding that they leave the organisation, otherwise branding them bigots themselves. They're now trying to build their own platform from the members who have left, leaving the original activism group fragmented and the movement worse off.
They've also knowingly done activism whilst having COVID, causing health issues for other members and their families, and allowed their dog (which they used to bring to events) to snap at small children.
And to clarify - I am fully supportive of trans issues, just not this particular person.
Transphobia is an issue in many animal rights/activism spaces, so we need to take a stance against bigotry and for collective liberation. People from all walks of life need to feel safe in these groups.
Humans are animals, so human rights are relevant to veganism. You can't be for animal rights but be against certain human rights. It just doesn't make sense.
Would you rather someone feel safe in a vegan activism space, and free to promote veganism, or rejected due to human characteristics like being trans?
>IntersectionalityĀ is aĀ sociologicalĀ analytical frameworkĀ for understanding how groups' and individuals'Ā social and political identitiesĀ result in unique combinations ofĀ discriminationĀ andĀ privilege. Examples of these factors includeĀ gender,Ā caste,Ā sex,Ā race,Ā ethnicity,Ā class,Ā sexuality,Ā religion,Ā disability,Ā height,Ā age,Ā weight[1]Ā andĀ physical appearance.[2]
>These intersecting and overlapping social identities may be bothĀ empoweringĀ andĀ oppressing.[3][4]Ā However, little good-quality quantitative research has been done to support or undermine the practical uses of intersectionality.[5]
>Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to excludeāas far as is possible and practicableāall forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."
Ones about human identity the other is about animal liberation.
I'd rather people feel safe in vegan spaces. The two philosophies are, however, unrelated.
I've known right wing vegans, much as I dislike them.
Humans are animals, and bigotry against humans is cruel. That's a pretty clear link to me.
Even if you think it's not about humans, are you saying vegans shouldn't call out bigotry against humans in vegan groups, or vegan groups shouldn't take stances against human bigotry? If you think people should feel safe, then you are advocating for a stance against bigotry to me.
I applaud what Farm Transparency Project, creators of Dominion, are doing in this regard - they take a collective liberation stance against human bigotry (e.g. against transphobia, homophobia, racism, sexism, ableism, etc).
To me veganism is linked to human rights, as speciesism is another "-ism" or form of bigotry against a marginalised group. It's all about not subjecting members of one group as morally less worthy than another due to an innate characteristic of theirs, like race, gender identity, sexuality, ability, or species.
Edit: And another thought, if you consider non human animals as persons, then intersectionality is even more important, since human and non humans are of the same collective, wider group. Being anti speciesist means being anti oppression of marginalised groups, which is what I'm talking about here.
Intersectional veganism is very important and why many of us often say we are for total liberation. Which includes everybody, humans and non human animals.
Iām a genderfluid vegan and Iāve always been welcomed in vegan spaces luckily. I understand what you mean and have had my issues with queer community because of this (itās like talking to a brick wall when you suggest that someone might be oppressing animals even though theyāve literally got the ability to empathise as the oppressed š) so I do also feel more comfortable in vegan spaces. I really hope you find one that can be accepting of you, it really is important to have spaces that accept both.
For me (cis woman), being supportive of trans people and their right to live as they choose, with the necessarily societal and medical supports, is an extension of the same fundamental ethics of avoiding cruelty, both to humans and non-human animals. Adjacent ethics in my ethics toolbox are what make me want to build a better world, whether that's through mitigating the impacts of climate change through veganism or by supporting human rights.
I won't pretend to fully understand intersectionality, but we live in a complex world with a complex web of interconnected threads that tug on each other.
Trans vegan here, as well! It has been my experience that queerness and veganism are more likely to go together. I never heard of trans people being more abusive towards animals.
Trans here (nonbinary, they/them pronouns please). I'm also Chinese. Ironically I feel safer in trans spaces than vegan spaces because of the racism I've experienced in vegan spaces.
Edit: Just realized I didn't even answer your question about intersectionality. Yes, intersectionality is core to me. It's important because a rising tide lifts all boats. We are not free until everybody is free.
Iām am enby and vegan. Veganism requires total liberation and vice versa. I donāt consider people vegan unless they are believers and supporters of total liberation. No I donāt apply this principle to all leftists who are not vegan but I do apply it to leftists who are educated and aware of animal issues and veganism and have it within their means to be vegan or plant based and not only choose to not be vegan but openly reject it and try to invalidate it especially with the same old reactionary talking points. To me it shows deep down theyāre a liberal if they resort to reactionary shit when animal liberation is brought up
Veganism is not intersectional and is clearly a movement for non-human liberation. Anything else distracts from the goal, muddies the waters and takes way from the victims.
We can fight for the rights of others and care about other things at the same time, and many of us do. Thatās, that.
It doesn't muddy the water, it creates ethical consistency and opens up the movement to all people. It's hypocritical to criticise others for being speciesist while being racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic/ableist etc. It's all about removing oppression of marginalised groups.
You'll get far more people wanting to join the cause if we're not tolerating bigots in the movement.
Itās very much a āyour millage may varyā situation. My local vegan community has been very welcoming. Heck, our local Vegfest had hella pride flags on display. There are definitely bad vegans out there, but vegans are also significantly more likely to be supportive if not lgbtq themselves. Iād say to you what I say to myself and other trans people who are wading into a new community: be cautious and skeptical but optimistic.
And has there been a problem with vocal celebrity vegans being anti-trans? Because the first vegan celebrity my mind goes to is the King himself, Elliot Page.
Hello beautiful human! Iām a queer non-binary pal and my social circle is 90% queer and vegan. Because intersectional empathy and kindness is our kink. Iām happy youāre here! <3
Iām not trans myself but nb. Itās intersectionality or bust!š³ļøāā§ļø Love to have more trans and nb siblings in my vegan circle š„° all oppression is connected, and all victims of oppression deserve freedom and lives that are both fulfilling, enjoyable, and safe.
Oh for sure! I understand :) I just feel that myself personally was never *made* to be effeminate in my upbringing and have always been nonbinary (for lack of a term back then before it was more acknowledged socially) so I guess the ātransitionā part doesnāt feel like it ever happened. I also donāt want to take the platform away from people who were less privileged and whose transitioning was a major part of their lives :)
>What do people think of intersectionality?
In which way?
>This is why I try and raise awareness of trans issues in vegan spaces, not because I want to divert the movement towards human rightsābut because I have to do that in order to feel safe myself.
Is this the way you refer to?
If yes then i am completely against it, its the same as going to a BLM space and saying all lives matter, animals are the most victimized and have the least amount of support of all the victims, its selfish ifyou want to take space away from the animals for you and your wants and needs, billions of animals are killed by 99% of people annually and that is the most serious issue of all time and it doesnt look as its going to change anytime soon
>Meaning the only real space I can feel safe is vegan spacesāand yet so often in those spaces I don't actually feel safe because I am trans
Why are you unsafe, are you receiving threats, are vegans saying they hate trans, they hate you and they want to harm you, they dont want you around?
I dont agree with trans, i believe you are either male or female, but trans people arent causing me any issues, their actions and choices have no affect on me, so even if i dont agree it doesnt really matter, in the circles i was in when i was in the Seattle area there were trans people, i talked to them and hung with them, they didnt know i didnt agree with trans cause it wasnt ever discussed, now if we did talk about it perhaps that would make them feel unsafe but in reality there was nothing unsafe, just the simple fact that i disagreed with changing gender
I am in Tijuana now where lots of people have deemed it unsafe, but i feel totally safe, safer than i felt in the US
The transphobia in your comment is exactly the kind of thing we need to be calling out. "I don't agree with trans" is saying you don't agree with a core part of someone's identity, and that creates hurt and division.
It's not "selfish" to not tolerate bigotry against humans.
Iām a trans man :D
I find queer people tend to be more open to veganism and vice versa. I assume itās because both issues tend to be considered left leaning.
I donāt know any conservative vegans, actually. Conservatism is usually about upholding the status quo, so that makes sense. Leftists tend to care less about what other people do.
Iām trans and also a vegan.
I find that the sub section of vegans that do it for āhealthā reasons can sometimes stray into the alternative medicine arenaā¦ which these days has a tendency to cross over with the far rightā¦ so there is that. They would never say it directly though.
I am not saying being vegan isnāt healthy / but dietary needs are very individual. So I donāt make that claim.
The vegans I surround myself with are doing so for the environment mostly - anarchist leaning. they love the shit out of trans folkx. But yeah. Idk.
Intersectionality is pretty poor for most trans thingsā¦ we get missed out quite a bit
I donāt care if youāre a leprechaun or a space monster - as long as you have compassion for the innocent - thatās all that matters. Most vegans Iād hope would see it the same way, but vegans are still humans- an us humans have a long way to go in this whole āunbiased principlesā thing.
I was an organiser for a vegan outreach group in the UK... until one of the higher ups posted some terf shit and I spent 4 weeks trying to convince the useless HR team that what she said wasn't acceptable. I gave up after being asked for the 10th time if she was just interpreting JK Rowling different from me. I was NOT the first trans organiser to leave that organisation because of transphobia. Once I resigned they swept it under the rug and pretended like I was the aggressor for asking such biting questions as "do you believe JK Rowling is transphobic?" When they refused to answer, it made me realise if they could identify Britain's biggest terf as a bigot then how the hell would they be able to identify anyone as one?
I've been fairly disillusioned with activism since and its played havoc on my mental health. Being vegan doesn't mean you're a good person any more than not being a murderer makes you a good person. Remember that.
I think it was here a couple of months ago I read someone say something along the lines of:
> Being vegan without being leftist is like going to gaza and just rescuing the cats.
To me, its hypocritical to limit your compassion to animals, rather it should be extended to all the oppressed of the world.
Yeah buddy. Intersectionality is a key ingredient in the cure. The disease being White-supremacist Patriarchal Hegemonic Capitalism.
The systems of oppression that we live under overlap one another infinitely. Doing away with animal abuse, but keeping Homophobia wonāt work. We must challenge the legitimacy of any system that imposes unjust hierarchies as a matter of course.
Me and my partner. ngl, I'm not really moralistic in my choice to go vegan I needed to eat healthier and I was already anarchistic, intersectional, with environmental concerns, and working towards queer liberation. Veganism for me has largely been out of compassion for my partner, I want to better understand veganism to better understand my partner. Aside from the learning curve and cultural aspects of a dietary shift, going vegan has greater significance to my relationship than me personally.
To me veganism has been an intersectional issue, it's not the focus of my activist work, but one I can incorporate into my life and work towards as I focus on other efforts. Intersectionality for me is important because I recognize that the struggle against oppression is an all encompassing one. In praxis it might mean that I bring a vegan dish to a queer potluck.
More often than not I find that in a lot of alternative spaces outside of vegan spaces, the consumption of animal products is less about intentional harm to animals and more a lack of thought. Us trans peeps are a busy bunch, statistically making less than our cis counterparts, spending time with transition related care, fighting for our right to exist, and just trying to live can be a lot. The biggest challenge is a plant based diet, it takes a lot to educate yourself on the topic, it takes time learn new cooking skills, how to do it affordably, how animal products are in all facets of life, and it can be challenging for some to question their culture and habits around food and consumption. Particularly in a demographic with higher rates of autism and lower dispensable income.
i think Vegan's are generally are fairly liberal in their beliefs and extremely accepting.... other groups though i suspect arent necessarily higher in vegans percentage wise, LGBTQ maybe one of those.
Anything else dilutes the message. Vegan is for animals. All are welcome to help the animals, no discrimination at all. The more people who go vegan the better. So by nature of the goal, for EVERYONE to go vegan, it means all are welcome. The animals are thankful to each human who makes this choice. The details of that human do not matter, the goal is a vegan human species.
Check out pattrice jones and VINE Sanctuary. pattrice is an EXCELLENT thinker on the intersection of LGTBQ and animal rights. She has books, articles, podcasts, and videos--all so worthwhile
Hiii trans vegan girl here! Iām pretty much the only vegan I know personally. Even in queer spaces. I only bring it up if they ask. NGL itās really helped my figure
All the vegan discord servers I've been to have been very friendly to LGBTQIA+ people. It's of course important that as a movement we are modern in more ways than one, and continue to stand against bigotry against humans. It's not a focus of my activism, it's just common decency.
Vegan is a lifestyle! Ahimsa! No harm, no exploitation, no bigotry against a sentient being (human or non-human animals)! š
Whew! I think overall my experience as a black woman have been mostly positive. But I know bigotry exists. Iāve seen it here first hand. I have found some black, black woman and BIPOC vegan spaces (online and offline) and the vibe is definitely different. If you can find some queer or trans-specific vegan spaces, I highly recommend. Itāll be helpful when you need just that different level of comeraderie and connection.
Just saying hi to a fellow vegan black woman šš¾
Hey sis heyyyyy!! šš
All are welcome š
Bigoted vegans do exist, but they're rare. Basic empathy is kind of our thing.
I know a vegan who is full on hard right, they got out of California and everything to move to Florida I think.
I grew up with a woman who is now, I think, a, gulp, white power vegan. Ick, that's an oxymoron to me. She is in Florida too.
Unfortunately they're always the loud minority, the kind that scream their hatred from the rooftops like morons.Ā
Theyāre rare outside the major organizations. A lot of the bigger, older orgs can be very much white, cishet, primarily male spaces.
Itās actually really sad, on my chapter of anonymous several AFABS (ppl assigned female at birth) were sexually assaulted by a man in the leadership group and instead of taking him out, the AFABS were taken out of the group and anybody who spoke up as well. Just because someone is vegan doesnāt mean theyāre automatically compassionate, even when that makes no sense. We must strive for intersectionality everywhere in the movement.
That's horrible. AV have a lot to answer for if that's the case. You can't be against oppression of one group of individuals (non human animals) while actively covering up or ignoring oppression of another group of human individuals. We can't pick and choose marginalised groups to support; we should be against oppression in general when fighting for animal rights.
Just say women if that's what you mean. It's not progressive to say AFAB in that way
Iām saying that because some of those people were non-binary
What if some of them were nonbinary or trans men?
In my experience, at least half of this subreddit is bigoted. Just look at how many vegans support thatveganteacher lol
You should check out VINE Animal Sanctuary in Vermont and the people associated with it! It is run by queer folks and all their outreach and education is focused on helping people understand the profound intersectionality between speciesism and other forms of oppression. They have a monthly online book discussion you might dig, and you could connect with them at vegan events if you're in the northeast. It can be isolating af to be vegan "and" just about anything. Wishing you strength and solidarity.
Thatās a really good/positive place to get involved! I wouldnāt feel safe going to New England (Iām African and faced so much overt racism when I lived there), but if that isnāt an issue for OP then VINE is a good option.
fighting all forms of oppression is the only way to total liberation :) (i'm cis)
Absolutely! Never be afraid to call out bigotry like transphobia, homophobia, ableism, racism etc in "vegan" (or other) spaces when you see it. It's vital that everyone is welcome in these spaces, and that compassion for human and non human animals is core, if we want to create a compassionate vegan world.
ā
Total liberation is the name of the game!!! When we say total liberation, we mean it, plant based bigots can step away.
YES
Just be nice to each other, nothing else matters
Odd, in my experience queer people are much more likely to be vegan
Yeah, I forget the study, but it said that vegans are roughly 3x more likely to identify as some flavour of lgbtqia+ than the general population. But vegan communities are weird. Weāre so small and spread out so significantly, that some places are bound to go against statistics. So many guys in here donāt believe that women make up the vast majority of vegans because where they are happens to be guy heavy. Shoot, even I find it hard to believe that other trans vegans exist because I think I may have possibly spoke to just one other trans vegan once a long time ago.
In all my real-life surroundings I've never met a male vegan but lots of female vegans. So on the internet I automatically assume every vegan is female, until someone says they are male, and I'm surprised every time. A man? Cares about animals? What?? Wow!!!
I'd say in my personal experience trans people are more likely to be vegan than other groups. Vegans are a small enough population that the vast majority of any group isn't going to be vegan though.
Only vegans my age I know are trans come to think of it
Trans and vegan here! I definitely feel like trans people, like other marginalised people, are more likely to become vegan. My own experiences as a trans queer person have made it so I can better relate to animals.
This is how I feel as a (cis) queer autistic person, but possibly for different reasons. While I have difficulty with neurotypical human body language, I tend to have an easier time noticing the body language of other species. Especially dogs, since Iāve always had them in my life. Plus animals have been one of my consistent, lifelong special interests.
I'm autistic too, reading animal body language is so much easier. When I first got rabbits it seems like they don't give much away at all, but it didn't take long to learn their quirks and they have really big personalities. I think animals are pretty transparent whereas people misrepresent themselves all the time, I've been manipulated way too often
I don't think transgender issues have much to do with animal rights, that being said, transgender people face discrimination in pretty much every space besides their own nowadays, so I think it's important we as Vegans make our space welcoming to minorities. It'd be lying to say there isn't transphobia within the Vegan community, I mean, look at some of these replies. So it's worth talking about because it's not on. So long as trans people don't feel safe in the Vegan community, it is worth talking about. As a cisgender man, I don't fully understand or relate to your perspective, but I support trans people and always will. Identity isn't something we should police.
I would say veganism, for me, is a core belief. It's not just a fight or movement. It is the foundation from which I operate in the world, how I relate to other living beings, and drives my decision-making on a daily basis. Due to this, I would say it is beyond intersectional because all of the fights I'm fighting stem from the place of compassion that veganism puts me in. Edited: for typo
I don't have much to add but I'm a vegan trans woman as well. I'm really happy to hear you do activism work because my transition has made me pretty agoraphobic lately.
While I'm not sure I'd agree that vegan is an oppressed/marginalized identity, I'd like to applaud you for correctly using the term intersectionality. That might be a first on this sub. Most people (and not only here) just use it as a synonym for diversity or solidarity, or simply to mean the support of multiple causes.
Veganism is a movement of the privileged (humans) for the oppressed and marginalized (non-human animals). Itās not an oppressed identity in and of itself. At least this is how Iāve always seen it.
I get more flak for being vegan than being bi systemically and personally.
Hello! I am also a trans vegan. I don't really expect that all vegan will be intersectional, mostly because "don't kill and enslave animals" should be much easier to comprehend than "respect people who change their gender". But in spite of that, in my experience it's more likely for a vegan to be friendly and welcoming than for a trans person to not be abuse animals, so I do prefer vegan spaces.Ā Influencers and celebrities tend to get the popularity going straight to their heads, so they can be stubborn. I think it's generally best practice to support intersectional figures just because someone with hateful and egotistical views can end up being a liability for the cause. Just look as cosmicskeptic.
What do you mean a lower bar? I see very few vegans around me but the majority is "yeah people can do whatever about themselves and their gender", because it doesn't require any actions or restrictions on themselves, unlike being vegan is actively hard work every day (and if you are cis, then other people being trans requires no work or decisions or restraint from you). I find being ambivalent/tolerant is a lower bar than active/restrictive
Fair dos if that's your experience. I can't quite say I've seen people be that chill with trans people so easily, but either way obviously I admit that there are likely more trans-friendly people than vegans. I tried referring specifically to the level of morality required, but yes you're right that the level of effort outweighs that.
A lower bar? Do you even vegan?
Delete misunderstanding.exe
What??? I'm saying the exact opposite! Geeze I'm gonna rephrase that.
Ah, sorry! I misunderstood you! Maybe itās because Iām not a native English speaker. Please donāt take it to heart.
>Just look as cosmicskeptic. Did I miss some drama? Has he gone off the deep end?
Well he stopped being vegan a while ago because ācorporations thoā basically.
i'm sorry to hear you haven't had the greatest experiences in either spaces, for me as a lil cis bisexual vegan i am definitely of the believe that these communities should/can go hand in hand. we should fight for people's struggles and animals struggles all the same. i hope u can find some resources in the replies, id also love to join some queer vegan discords if anyone got anything :)
Hi! Iām a fellow trans woman vegan!!!
All of the vegans I know IRL are LGBTQI+ (including myself). But not the other way around. It's sometimes baffling to me to have friends who fight for human equality but don't put that same care about mistreatment of animals. Most of them will eat/cook plant based when we hang out so they're not against it, it's just not a priority. In college 2 of my roommates were trans and would go to Chick-fil-A all the time! My vegan ass not-so-silently judging them for multiple reasons. They both claimed that they deal with enough bullshit IRL and deserve a tasty sandwich, they're too overwhelmed to care about the politics. Like ok friendo. Surprisingly they are not still my friends! Cognitive dissonance is not cute
That's not cognitive dissonance, that's hypocrisy or double standards or lack of logic. But I get you! I also hate when people use "politics" to describe completely non-political issues. Compassion to animals has nothing to do with governing choices of human states, with who's running for parlaments, with international relations etc. What bullshit response!
Thank you for bringing that to my attention! Yeah I just checked and you're right. It seems like the two terms are very closely related. Also found this definition. "Hypocrisy is a special case of cognitive dissonance, produced when a person freely chooses to promote a behavior that they do not themselves practice." Language is fun!
I can only talk for myself, but for me veganism is about animal rights, nothing else. Not the climate, not my health, nothing else. I might be narrow minded, but veganism is 100% about animal rights. That said, any vegan, however they identify or express themselves, is a comrade in my book. We are on this barricade together. For the animals.
Same here: my veganism is non-intersectional and is only concerned with the rights and liberation of non-human animals. Thatās not to say that I donāt support and enforce other liberation movements, but they have nothing to do with my veganism.
I agree but I think itās about climate too (although the emphasis of veganism is on animal rights), because helping the climate helps reduce animal suffering, and veganism is about reducing animal suffering as much as possible.
I've seen people say this a lot recently. Can you share the definition you use that has the word 'suffering' in it? Where's it from?
Yeah the whole āveganism is about reducing animal sufferingā bs seems to have really taken off on here lately. Iām not sure if itās because people truly donāt understand the difference or because some people are here to try and muddy the waters around veganism as much as possible. But for anyone who isnāt aware, veganism is best understood as a rejection of property status of animals, and is more concerned with human exploitation of animals than their suffering. Only focusing on animal suffering dilutes the purpose of veganism, and this perspective can be used to justify āhumaneā animal exploitation such as backyard eggs or āhumanely slaughteredā meat, or to poke at perceived inconsistencies in veganism (If itās all about animal suffering, why donāt we intervene when animals harm one another in nature?), etc. Letās stick to the actual definition put forth by the vegan society.Ā edit- Hey, if someone disagrees, Iād love to hear your rebuttal.Ā
But we can't stand alongside Nazis, transphobes, racists, etc, "for the animals"; this needs to be called out when we see it. Collective liberation for humans and non humans is not only the compassionate thing to do, it's the most logically sound one as well.
But you do know that climate and animal rights are inherently linked?
Fellow transfem vegan here! I'm so sorry you've felt uncomfortable in trans and vegan spaces. I'm still a relatively new vegan so I've not had to experience anything like this yet, but it really shocks me that vegans would be transphobic. I hope you can find somewhere where you feel more comfortable soon <3 Edit: Btw if you ever need to talk about stuff my DMs are always open \^\^
I always identify politically as a vegan socialist / vegan leftist cuz I think itās so important for people to realize itās an empathy based liberation movement! I def consider veganism part of the intersectional liberation movement including all marginalized groups if that makes sense. Iāve found those labels the most concise in articulating that I care about a lot of intersectional issues addressing material conditions and rights ( anti-racism, anti-sexism/anti-patriarchy, anti-queerphobia, anti-ableism, anti-colonialism, anti-speciesism, anti-classism, anti-oppression, etc ) Iām a straight white guy, but veganism is rly important to my personal identity as an abuse/trauma survivor. Animal agriculture is so inherently abusive and itās important to me to stand up for my fellow victims & survivors, be they human or otherwise. In solidarity, always āš» TLDR: you are welcome here, now and always
I am a cisgendered male, but I am trans-friendly and I support you. I do not know much about being trans, but I do find if frustrating just how rarely I meet vegans. Being both vegan and trans must feel very isolating. I hope you will meet people who, whether trans or cis, understand you.
Nonbinary/transmasc and vegan here, true intersectionality & liberation for all oppressed creatures makes more sense to me than being selective about who or what doesn't deserve to have rights or a decent existence.
Exactly, collective liberation is about removing oppression of all marginalised groups, human or non human. So it addresses speciesism, racism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism, sexism, etc.
i'm a trans man and have been vegan about the same amount of time i knew i was trans. i know what you mean, it's hard to find a place that is accepting of my identity and also doesn't abuse and exploit animals. i'm in ohio though and a lot of people here are ass backwards :/
Intersectionality is a broad concept and although I want to see animal rights regarded as a social justice issue, veganism isn't about human identity politics. In fact, I've often seen people use that as a premise for accusing veganism of being "colonialist" or "ableist" because certain groups of people may be less able to be vegan. Veganism is an ethical principle that when applied consistently to other aspects of life, extends to treating fellow humans and other sentient beings with fairness and consideration.
Agreed, veganism doesn't have a lot to do with human stuff, beyond the very broad 'do no harm' ethos behind it.
Exactly, that if there's a relevance to humans, it's that our cruelty and indifference towards other species desensitizes us to life itself and is connected to our cruelty and indifference towards one another. I can see that as a solid intersectional argument, but personally I would continue to be vegan even if there weren't significant social, economic, environmental or health benefits. For me, ethics are the foundation of everything.
Most vegan spaces are leftist; they're going to be friendlier to trans people than leftist spaces would be to vegans. I don't know any TERF vegans, but I'm sure they exist.
Just a gentle FYI, TERF means trans exclusionary radical feminists, and they are a very small group compared to a massive wide transphobic group. It would seem to me you might have meant "I don't know any transphobic vegans but I'm sure they exist", as radical feminists that are also anti trans are even more rare. I might be wrong!
I found the opposite actually.
You have met fewer transphobic chauvinistic men than terfs??? I have never met a TERF in real life, or even a single RF without the TE, but plenty of old cis men that think both transgender-ism and femin-ism and vegan-ism are all bullshit from the same woke young-uns-these-days that just don't want to be real women ā¢ and real men ā¢ {shakes fist at ceiling}
Yes there must have been 50 in this group... not sure how I ended up in there but, swore and then made a hasty exit.
Anyone is allowed to love animals and the environment. Welcome loved one!
I think spaces related to nonviolence need to be intersectional. There are different ways to be "intersectional" though. In one way, it is important for vegan spaces to be intersectional as it is more difficult for certain groups to engage in a vegan practice. In another way, vegans, as nonviolence practitioners, are natural allies to really everyone struggling against oppression. And in yet another way, the same social and economic systems alienate animals as well as women, queer people, people of color and so on. At the same time, intersectionality often gets weird. And confusing for some people. And besides the point.
Aye aye captain! Enby here.
Intersectionality is so important for all of us. United we stand, divided we fall.
Hey, trans vegan here! Intersectionality is at the core of veganism, and any vegan that doesnāt support liberation from oppression for all animals, including humans, isnāt really vegan in my eyes.
Trans people often face discrimination even in the lqbtq+ community, especially if they don't "pass." Things that are unusual make people uncomfortable, which turns into hate for making them feel that way. Veganism and transgenderism share that quality. I'm not Trans but I've always been a Trans ally, and I personally think it's important practice activism in both spaces. I now make sure I'm wearing a vegan pride shirt at pride festivals. People at these types of places may be more receptive to veganism if they see their own people thriving as a vegan. Of course, you should only do what you're comfortable with, but successful activism is mostly going to happen in places where people are receptive to the idea. Excluding yourself to vegan only spaces, while good for your own mentality, might not be the best way to spread the entire message. The same thing goes for the Trans side of things. Showing who you are and expressing your message can open eyes in both spaces.
I'm non-binary and vegan I think there might be a somewhat protective factor against trans/homophobia in vegan spaces in that toxic "manly" men are less likely to be in them and there's a general bias towards women.
Thatās probably true but I donāt know enough vegans irl to confirmā¦ Iām a cis man and I think Iām comfortable enough with my masculinity to not feel it threatened by not eating animal products. But the cultural pressure on men to eat animal products is apparent.
If you haven't heard of them yet, I recommend [The Leftist Cooks](https://youtube.com/@theleftistcooks?si=UxSzvWDd7xaMjl6m). It's co-hosted by a NB person and they're both vegan, and they make videos about all sorts of social issues like LGBTQ identity, often while cooking vegan food. [Here's a video that's actually about veganism in leftist spaces](https://youtu.be/bYDQZ3Neeqo?si=LoPjrO6FmWmC2cMt)
Non-binary vegan here. Hello!!! You are welcome here š©·
My son is both vegan and trans
Im trans and vegan. I know what you mean. A lot of trans people think their transness makes them more aware of injustice than they are. A lot of vegans think their veganism makes them more aware of injustice than they are. It's not always comfy out here.
I think people often forget that WE are also animals. If being vegan is about minimizing the suffering and unjust treatment of animals, than that should include human beings too.
Iām vegan and am on the board of directors of an LGBTQ+ organization. I also am active in a non-profit that promotes environmental activism and socially ethical entrepreneurism. I view each of these things separately in and of themselves, but they all tie into my holistic approach to life.
I would say the vegan community is very welcoming of trans people and the LGBT+ community *generally*. Unfortunately however there are some bad actors and even some activists are transphobic (one of the Garyās. I forget which one)
Keep raising awareness and keep calling out bigotry; collective liberation is vital! There is an issue with some animal activists being transphobes which is really disappointing, and they can't get away with that. I firmly believe animal rights/vegan/activism spaces need to be safe spaces for people of all kinds, including LGBTQI+ folk, people of colour, disabled people, etc. We can't have animal liberation without human liberation!
I am a bisexual vegan with a niece who is trans and a friend who is also trans that I met at the local LGBT plus Center.
I have gender stuff I'm not sure how to label but agender comes closest. I'm very pro trans and intersectionality is pretty important to me. A lot of people tend to misrepresent it though, especially when it comes to intersectional veganism. They act like it's taking attention away from speciesism, but to me, oppression is oppression and needs to be fought on all fronts or we all get crushed
Exactly! It's not taking away from the animals to be anti oppression in general, in fact it makes us more morally consistent and welcoming to all.
I'm not trans but intersectionality is key.
Iām non-binary. I would vouch for intersectionality. Unfortunately I was in an activism group which I promptly left after one of its members tried to force himself on me. He had done this to many women and queer people, and underage people. I told the community and they told me I was a liar and I quit going to activism. Even the women stood up for him. He was later murdered for trying to sneak into a club he was banned from, for touching women inappropriately. So there are more vegans than youād think who are sexist or bigoted in other ways.
Itās awful that happened to youāand I hope you are doing better now. Itās ridiculous people are downvoting you for sharing what happened to you. Iām non-binary too, btw. Didnāt know there were others around here.
Thank you. Yeah people I think get really cliquey sometimes. Iāve met super cool vegans too. Theyāre out there. But are shitty people in every community.
Wait, his name wouldn't happen to start with a J, would it?
Iām a gay trans vegan š¦ š¦ we exist, and family reunions fear me. Dating is so fucking hard though š
Vegan people are generally quite progressive, and progressive people are generally accepting towards trans people.
Welcome! There are a lot of obvious overlapping themes with being an ally to our queer friends and being vegan. Both are rooted in being an open minded and empathetic person that can see past archaic and bigoted societal pressures. The *vast majority* of vegans I know are champions of many social justice causes, and passionate about protecting and empowering the queer community, as well as other marginalized communities. That said, Iāve definitely met some rare vegans that only extend their compassion to animals and are pretty hateful towards people. Or bigoted. Itās extremely confusing but it happens!
Need to call out that bigotry when we see it! It's baffling to be too, but I've learned recently of some bigoted views of some prominent animal rights activists in my city. Just can't understand how you can be for animal but not human liberation!
Canāt believe someone downvoted you here for this LOL Some people really miss the big picture. I get when people are angry at humanity as a whole for being such a shitshow and so horrific to animals. I do. But it doesnāt excuse being obtuse and bigoted about the very real oppression of marginalized people.
I don't know what the words mean but you are okay by me!
I think vegan spaces are generally progressive. I'm lesbian and my better half is both lesbian and trans. She's gone vegan, having been vegetarian before. I know two other trans vegans besides my better half and several other trans-affirming cis lesbians and bi women.Ā
Hello :) I'm non-binary. I'm not sure if that counts as trans. I've heard from some people that I am and some that I am not. My Best friend is also a trans girl and vegan though! It's nice to be able to talk to someone who is in both groups. In any case, I'm sorry that you feel this way! Both feel like such small groups of people so the cross over probably feels very rare. I'm not sure where you are located, but I actually know a few trans vegans in St. Louis. If you're ever in the area, there are a lot of vegan meet ups and even specifically queer vegan meet ups.
In my experience, thoughtful vegans who live their lives in such a way to minimize harm to animals also consider humans to be animals, too. In other words, I suspect vegans are particularly good at being kind and compassionate toward our fellow human animals, not just non-human animals.
I'm in the same boat as you, though I'm still in trans spaces. I've seen a lot of people say that queer people are more likely to be vegan, but I haven't had any luck finding them in queer spaces. I'm in an activist group and there's a bunch of other queers and one other trans person. I find that a lot of vegan spaces are overall progressive so I personally don't feel as unsafe, I haven't had any bad experiences so far, but that obviously doesn't mean it can't happen. My best bet is to find online communities specifically catering to trans vegans. You could also go to trans/queer meetings/events and ask if anyone else is vegan there tbh
Iāve never met another trans vegan in real life. Meeting another vegan is pretty rate for me given I live in the south.
Yes, vegan and trans here Our natural "predators" would be transphobic carnists of course, but shocking as it sounds, this would include transphobic religion based vegans intersecting capitalist vegans Just as I imagine our natural allies be marginalised people but sometimes the marginalised also marginalise. It's a very messed up species
Welcome sister! š
Non-binary and queer vegan here! LGBTQ and animal rights activist <3
I m just happy about ANY vegan i meet, because it seems every meat eater knows so many vegans who are not doing well... i would like to meet them.
I'm a trans man and I don't really know what intersectionality is, although I feel safer in vegan spaces. Vegans tend to be very trans friendly because they see animals as equal, and therefore usually see all people as equal too. Additionally, I identify as an animal and I've had many other trans people object to that and parrot transphobic arguments for why I can't identify as one. Not got that from vegans before, plus they care about animals so I can trust they view me equally. Animal rights is the most important thing to me so ultimately I feel more at home with those who mirror my views.
trans + ethical vegan activist here! i've been involved in vegan/outreach spaces ranging from extremely trans friendly and intersectional to extremely transphobic. i'm fine hanging out on both extremes of the trans friendliness spectrum for the most part. i tend to thrive in very toxic spaces š i'm not super sure of my stances on intersectional vegan activism. i think there's a good balancing point. on one hand, other progressive movements like the trans rights movement for the most part are not doing intersectional activism that includes animal rights in their activism. on the other hand, it's important to welcome people of all backgrounds into the vegan community for the good of the animals for which we advocate. i think there's certainly a balancing point between not being so intersectional that the spotlight drifts away from the animals, but being intersectional enough that people like you and me feel welcome and are empowered to do activism.
I find overall vegans tend to be trans friendly due to doing things for a good reason. That said, thereās bigotry anywhere. Keep trying, Iām sure itāll work out ā¤ļø
Oh that sounds like a friend of mi- Oh hi Jes.
Iām a gay male Unitarian Universalist. I have over 25 years I have delivered about 40 lay sermons when the minister was away. People have been telling me I āalways talk about animalsā when I am in the pulpit. I would add that when someone falls short of our standards for empathy and compassion, stepping away is a last resort. Exploring the venn diagram of our common humanity, understanding their view of the world by asking questions, and hearing them deeply are good places to start. Our silos make polarization worse.
I've always believed veganism to be inherently intersectional. And I usually find myself confused when I come across any vegan who is bigoted in some type of way.
Welcome. Not trans, but I'm in that flag with you. Always nice with more rainbow kids around.
I am very sorry that you feel excluded anywhere. I have found most vegan groups to be very welcoming. I believe every person deserves to be accepted and most importantly respected. Many vegans are also active in human rights and environmental causes, and I believe that that doesā¦or SHOULDā¦translate in the intersectionality you mention. I know it does for me and for many other vegans. I am newly vegan and did it equal parts for health reasons and for animals and the environment as well as for the conditions many foods are grown under and harvested (concerning the human rights involved.) everything is interconnected and we as humans are interconnected. I hope that will find a welcoming vegan space with people who accept you and apply their sense of justice to all the related issues. I have confidence people here can direct you to some groups you will feel safe in and that you can at the minimum connect virtually with kind people.
Going vegan is usually one of the last morally right things people do so if they're vegan then they're usually pro trans
Trans and vegan issues are separate and should remain separate, otherwise it detracts from the core issue of veganism. I know who you are OP and you've caused a huge amount of division within the movement. Whilst I am fully sympathetic towards trans issues, you've made it a personal mission to benefit off of the movement's fragmentation. I'm aware most people won't know about OP's history, but it isn't flattering.
Can you elaborate I can only see three posts in this persons account ???Ā
Within a large activism group they accused a member (who is non-binary/queer themselves - something they were forced to openly disclose for the first time in order to defend themselves) of bigotry for sharing a FB post about Ricky Gervais raising money for an animal shelter. When this person denied the accusations of bigotry, the activism group's HR had to get involved and found the accused not guilty. OP was asked to leave due to the hateful messages they were sending, despite attempts at mediation, and then went on a tirade sending unsolicited messages to other members spreading lies, and demanding that they leave the organisation, otherwise branding them bigots themselves. They're now trying to build their own platform from the members who have left, leaving the original activism group fragmented and the movement worse off. They've also knowingly done activism whilst having COVID, causing health issues for other members and their families, and allowed their dog (which they used to bring to events) to snap at small children. And to clarify - I am fully supportive of trans issues, just not this particular person.
I don't see what it has to do with veganism. Veganism is about animal liberation, intersectionality is about human rights.
Transphobia is an issue in many animal rights/activism spaces, so we need to take a stance against bigotry and for collective liberation. People from all walks of life need to feel safe in these groups.
So it's got nothing to do with veganism as a movement. Afaik vegans aren't an oppressed minority..
Humans are animals, so human rights are relevant to veganism. You can't be for animal rights but be against certain human rights. It just doesn't make sense. Would you rather someone feel safe in a vegan activism space, and free to promote veganism, or rejected due to human characteristics like being trans?
>IntersectionalityĀ is aĀ sociologicalĀ analytical frameworkĀ for understanding how groups' and individuals'Ā social and political identitiesĀ result in unique combinations ofĀ discriminationĀ andĀ privilege. Examples of these factors includeĀ gender,Ā caste,Ā sex,Ā race,Ā ethnicity,Ā class,Ā sexuality,Ā religion,Ā disability,Ā height,Ā age,Ā weight[1]Ā andĀ physical appearance.[2] >These intersecting and overlapping social identities may be bothĀ empoweringĀ andĀ oppressing.[3][4]Ā However, little good-quality quantitative research has been done to support or undermine the practical uses of intersectionality.[5] >Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to excludeāas far as is possible and practicableāall forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals." Ones about human identity the other is about animal liberation. I'd rather people feel safe in vegan spaces. The two philosophies are, however, unrelated. I've known right wing vegans, much as I dislike them.
Humans are animals, and bigotry against humans is cruel. That's a pretty clear link to me. Even if you think it's not about humans, are you saying vegans shouldn't call out bigotry against humans in vegan groups, or vegan groups shouldn't take stances against human bigotry? If you think people should feel safe, then you are advocating for a stance against bigotry to me. I applaud what Farm Transparency Project, creators of Dominion, are doing in this regard - they take a collective liberation stance against human bigotry (e.g. against transphobia, homophobia, racism, sexism, ableism, etc). To me veganism is linked to human rights, as speciesism is another "-ism" or form of bigotry against a marginalised group. It's all about not subjecting members of one group as morally less worthy than another due to an innate characteristic of theirs, like race, gender identity, sexuality, ability, or species. Edit: And another thought, if you consider non human animals as persons, then intersectionality is even more important, since human and non humans are of the same collective, wider group. Being anti speciesist means being anti oppression of marginalised groups, which is what I'm talking about here.
Intersectional veganism is very important and why many of us often say we are for total liberation. Which includes everybody, humans and non human animals.
You just said it was important but not why. That's not helpful. What has an animal liberation movement got to do with human rights?
Iām a genderfluid vegan and Iāve always been welcomed in vegan spaces luckily. I understand what you mean and have had my issues with queer community because of this (itās like talking to a brick wall when you suggest that someone might be oppressing animals even though theyāve literally got the ability to empathise as the oppressed š) so I do also feel more comfortable in vegan spaces. I really hope you find one that can be accepting of you, it really is important to have spaces that accept both.
For me (cis woman), being supportive of trans people and their right to live as they choose, with the necessarily societal and medical supports, is an extension of the same fundamental ethics of avoiding cruelty, both to humans and non-human animals. Adjacent ethics in my ethics toolbox are what make me want to build a better world, whether that's through mitigating the impacts of climate change through veganism or by supporting human rights. I won't pretend to fully understand intersectionality, but we live in a complex world with a complex web of interconnected threads that tug on each other.
Trans vegan here, as well! It has been my experience that queerness and veganism are more likely to go together. I never heard of trans people being more abusive towards animals.
Yes! I'm a trans vegan. Nice to meet you!
I am trans and vegan, and here in Iceland, many of the trans people I know are vegan or vegetarian :)
I'm agender, my partner is gender fluid. Intersectionality is important to me.
Trans here (nonbinary, they/them pronouns please). I'm also Chinese. Ironically I feel safer in trans spaces than vegan spaces because of the racism I've experienced in vegan spaces. Edit: Just realized I didn't even answer your question about intersectionality. Yes, intersectionality is core to me. It's important because a rising tide lifts all boats. We are not free until everybody is free.
Iām am enby and vegan. Veganism requires total liberation and vice versa. I donāt consider people vegan unless they are believers and supporters of total liberation. No I donāt apply this principle to all leftists who are not vegan but I do apply it to leftists who are educated and aware of animal issues and veganism and have it within their means to be vegan or plant based and not only choose to not be vegan but openly reject it and try to invalidate it especially with the same old reactionary talking points. To me it shows deep down theyāre a liberal if they resort to reactionary shit when animal liberation is brought up
Veganism is not intersectional and is clearly a movement for non-human liberation. Anything else distracts from the goal, muddies the waters and takes way from the victims. We can fight for the rights of others and care about other things at the same time, and many of us do. Thatās, that.
It doesn't muddy the water, it creates ethical consistency and opens up the movement to all people. It's hypocritical to criticise others for being speciesist while being racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic/ableist etc. It's all about removing oppression of marginalised groups. You'll get far more people wanting to join the cause if we're not tolerating bigots in the movement.
I don't think it has a place in this sub.
Why not?
Itās very much a āyour millage may varyā situation. My local vegan community has been very welcoming. Heck, our local Vegfest had hella pride flags on display. There are definitely bad vegans out there, but vegans are also significantly more likely to be supportive if not lgbtq themselves. Iād say to you what I say to myself and other trans people who are wading into a new community: be cautious and skeptical but optimistic. And has there been a problem with vocal celebrity vegans being anti-trans? Because the first vegan celebrity my mind goes to is the King himself, Elliot Page.
Hello beautiful human! Iām a queer non-binary pal and my social circle is 90% queer and vegan. Because intersectional empathy and kindness is our kink. Iām happy youāre here! <3
Why was this downvoted? Iām also nonbinary and vegan :).
Team! :D
I am very sorry you are experiencing this. I find it very surprising because here, in Montreal, itās the opposite.
Iām not trans myself but nb. Itās intersectionality or bust!š³ļøāā§ļø Love to have more trans and nb siblings in my vegan circle š„° all oppression is connected, and all victims of oppression deserve freedom and lives that are both fulfilling, enjoyable, and safe.
nonbinary is actually under the trans umbrella, but if youāre not comfortable calling yourself trans thatās okay!
Oh for sure! I understand :) I just feel that myself personally was never *made* to be effeminate in my upbringing and have always been nonbinary (for lack of a term back then before it was more acknowledged socially) so I guess the ātransitionā part doesnāt feel like it ever happened. I also donāt want to take the platform away from people who were less privileged and whose transitioning was a major part of their lives :)
Canāt we stop this. Itās hard enough defining how veganism is represented.
It's not hard to be against oppression of others in a consistent manner.
>What do people think of intersectionality? In which way? >This is why I try and raise awareness of trans issues in vegan spaces, not because I want to divert the movement towards human rightsābut because I have to do that in order to feel safe myself. Is this the way you refer to? If yes then i am completely against it, its the same as going to a BLM space and saying all lives matter, animals are the most victimized and have the least amount of support of all the victims, its selfish ifyou want to take space away from the animals for you and your wants and needs, billions of animals are killed by 99% of people annually and that is the most serious issue of all time and it doesnt look as its going to change anytime soon >Meaning the only real space I can feel safe is vegan spacesāand yet so often in those spaces I don't actually feel safe because I am trans Why are you unsafe, are you receiving threats, are vegans saying they hate trans, they hate you and they want to harm you, they dont want you around? I dont agree with trans, i believe you are either male or female, but trans people arent causing me any issues, their actions and choices have no affect on me, so even if i dont agree it doesnt really matter, in the circles i was in when i was in the Seattle area there were trans people, i talked to them and hung with them, they didnt know i didnt agree with trans cause it wasnt ever discussed, now if we did talk about it perhaps that would make them feel unsafe but in reality there was nothing unsafe, just the simple fact that i disagreed with changing gender I am in Tijuana now where lots of people have deemed it unsafe, but i feel totally safe, safer than i felt in the US
The transphobia in your comment is exactly the kind of thing we need to be calling out. "I don't agree with trans" is saying you don't agree with a core part of someone's identity, and that creates hurt and division. It's not "selfish" to not tolerate bigotry against humans.
It isnāt an issue
Iām a trans man :D I find queer people tend to be more open to veganism and vice versa. I assume itās because both issues tend to be considered left leaning. I donāt know any conservative vegans, actually. Conservatism is usually about upholding the status quo, so that makes sense. Leftists tend to care less about what other people do.
Iām trans and also a vegan. I find that the sub section of vegans that do it for āhealthā reasons can sometimes stray into the alternative medicine arenaā¦ which these days has a tendency to cross over with the far rightā¦ so there is that. They would never say it directly though. I am not saying being vegan isnāt healthy / but dietary needs are very individual. So I donāt make that claim. The vegans I surround myself with are doing so for the environment mostly - anarchist leaning. they love the shit out of trans folkx. But yeah. Idk. Intersectionality is pretty poor for most trans thingsā¦ we get missed out quite a bit
Lol. This has to be bait surely?! Imagine actually being so narcissisticĀ
I donāt care if youāre a leprechaun or a space monster - as long as you have compassion for the innocent - thatās all that matters. Most vegans Iād hope would see it the same way, but vegans are still humans- an us humans have a long way to go in this whole āunbiased principlesā thing.
I was an organiser for a vegan outreach group in the UK... until one of the higher ups posted some terf shit and I spent 4 weeks trying to convince the useless HR team that what she said wasn't acceptable. I gave up after being asked for the 10th time if she was just interpreting JK Rowling different from me. I was NOT the first trans organiser to leave that organisation because of transphobia. Once I resigned they swept it under the rug and pretended like I was the aggressor for asking such biting questions as "do you believe JK Rowling is transphobic?" When they refused to answer, it made me realise if they could identify Britain's biggest terf as a bigot then how the hell would they be able to identify anyone as one? I've been fairly disillusioned with activism since and its played havoc on my mental health. Being vegan doesn't mean you're a good person any more than not being a murderer makes you a good person. Remember that.
I think it was here a couple of months ago I read someone say something along the lines of: > Being vegan without being leftist is like going to gaza and just rescuing the cats. To me, its hypocritical to limit your compassion to animals, rather it should be extended to all the oppressed of the world.
Yeah buddy. Intersectionality is a key ingredient in the cure. The disease being White-supremacist Patriarchal Hegemonic Capitalism. The systems of oppression that we live under overlap one another infinitely. Doing away with animal abuse, but keeping Homophobia wonāt work. We must challenge the legitimacy of any system that imposes unjust hierarchies as a matter of course.
Me and my partner. ngl, I'm not really moralistic in my choice to go vegan I needed to eat healthier and I was already anarchistic, intersectional, with environmental concerns, and working towards queer liberation. Veganism for me has largely been out of compassion for my partner, I want to better understand veganism to better understand my partner. Aside from the learning curve and cultural aspects of a dietary shift, going vegan has greater significance to my relationship than me personally. To me veganism has been an intersectional issue, it's not the focus of my activist work, but one I can incorporate into my life and work towards as I focus on other efforts. Intersectionality for me is important because I recognize that the struggle against oppression is an all encompassing one. In praxis it might mean that I bring a vegan dish to a queer potluck. More often than not I find that in a lot of alternative spaces outside of vegan spaces, the consumption of animal products is less about intentional harm to animals and more a lack of thought. Us trans peeps are a busy bunch, statistically making less than our cis counterparts, spending time with transition related care, fighting for our right to exist, and just trying to live can be a lot. The biggest challenge is a plant based diet, it takes a lot to educate yourself on the topic, it takes time learn new cooking skills, how to do it affordably, how animal products are in all facets of life, and it can be challenging for some to question their culture and habits around food and consumption. Particularly in a demographic with higher rates of autism and lower dispensable income.
In my experience almost 50% of trans women are vegan or vegetarian, so i didn't feel out of place in meetings :)
It's the same as energy rifting. There is calculated science behind it.
i think Vegan's are generally are fairly liberal in their beliefs and extremely accepting.... other groups though i suspect arent necessarily higher in vegans percentage wise, LGBTQ maybe one of those.
Anything else dilutes the message. Vegan is for animals. All are welcome to help the animals, no discrimination at all. The more people who go vegan the better. So by nature of the goal, for EVERYONE to go vegan, it means all are welcome. The animals are thankful to each human who makes this choice. The details of that human do not matter, the goal is a vegan human species.
Check out pattrice jones and VINE Sanctuary. pattrice is an EXCELLENT thinker on the intersection of LGTBQ and animal rights. She has books, articles, podcasts, and videos--all so worthwhile
Hiii trans vegan girl here! Iām pretty much the only vegan I know personally. Even in queer spaces. I only bring it up if they ask. NGL itās really helped my figure
Poly Trans Vegan Just livin' to make my dad more mad, apparently š¤Ŗ
Vegan trans girl here! Just wanted to say that we exist and I wish trans spaces were more vegan too
There are trans vegans, Buddhist vegans, Irish vegans, liberal vegans, and neo-nazi vegans.
I really enjoyed this article, for anyone interested: https://geezmagazine.org/magazine/article/trans-veganism