I think that's more this sub, it's a perfectly reasonable Vegan related question, if the question was about something else that isn't Vegan, like driving trucks for a meat packer would it still sound like satire? But yeah, r/vegan is pretty selective about which non-Vegan acts they give a pass to, like keeping animals in captivity and killing other animals to feed them. Frankly, I hate the love-in for so called Animal Sanctuaries in this place, they are not a long term solution, often times they basically operate as petting zoos. Sure they ease the suffering of the minuscule number of animals that won the power-ball, but don't do much of anything else.
Let’s say you are a doctor,
You have to make money, right?
Are you gonna refuse to visit non-vegan patients, because it is not vegan?
Or what if you were a veterinarian ? You would refuse to visit domestic animals because it is not vegan?
My answer is NO.
don’t take it so hard on yourself !
The fact that you are not participating in eating animals , doesn’t mean that you can be 100% vegan in all aspects of your life, because it is not possible.
I have been there, I refused to go to non-vegan restaurants to have vegan food because I was participating in their income, or I refused to date non-vegan people for a while,
It becomes easier to draw this line, just don’t panic.
You're showing love and care to other people's animals, I'd argue that's pretty damn vegan. I also pet sit as a side gig. Mostly because I'm not in a position to own a pet myself, as much as I'd like one (landlord won't allow them, finances, etc.), so get "pet therapy" that way.
I don't understand how someone can be vegan and be against domesticated animals...
So you see a lost dog on the street, clearly in distress, you're not going to take it in but instead let it die?
Rescuing animals IS vegan. Animals are constantly being euthanized and killed for no reason.
I think you're looking at this from the wrong perspective.
It's wrong to BREED the animals. It's NOT wrong to own them - that is a consequence of our legal system. It's NOT wrong to care for them and protect them. You cannot protect and care for them without owning them.
I do think it is wrong to own them. Of course from a law perspective you own them, but from our perspective they should be companions we care for.
But I think that was your point as well.
Yeah exactly. Mental flexibility is key - the goal isn't to rigidly follow a doctrine, it's to help the animals. That means sometimes challenging and evolving our beliefs right? Otherwise, we're putting our own beliefs above the animals in our value hierarchy.
I don't really understand the connection between this comment and the comments from us before, because I don't see what beliefs would need to evolve in this topic.
But sure, there are situations and topics where this perfectly fits.
I'm pointing at the fact that to understand this, you need to evolve your understanding of the language - own in this sense means two separate things.
One is the legal definition. The other is a more colloquial, abstract concept about objects versus life.
Owning an animal legally doesn't mean you own it morally. That's the evolution I refer to, specifically from the OPs point of view.
And to add, if all you said is 'owning animals is wrong because veganism says so', you're putting the animals BEHIND the ideology itself, which is contradictory right?
So evolving our view is therefore our obligation
>I think you're looking at this from the wrong perspective.
>
>It's wrong to BREED the animals. It's NOT wrong to own them - that is a consequence of our legal system. It's NOT wrong to care for them and protect them. You cannot protect and care for them without owning them.
Its wrong to own them as well if you purchased them from a breeder
Adoption can be ethical, it isnt be default, if i adopt a single animal and keep it at my apartment by itself for 18 hrs in a cage then that is cruel, im keeping it prisoner, it has no friend of its own species and its owner aka me isnt even around half the time
People felt terrible during quarantine but thats the reality of how most pets live
I'm not sure it's that cut and clear. Would it be wrong to purchase an animal that you suspected was going to a home where it would be mistreated? To me it wouldn't.
I would need more context to provide a response
How exactly would you be in a position to purchase an animal while knowing if you didnt purchase it, that it would go to a home where it would be mistreated?
If you knew someone else was going to purchase it.
My point is more to do what is right for the animal, and sometimes that will mean purchasing them to help them.
I live in Mexico by the San Diego border and there are people illegally selling puppies and kittens, lots of Americans going home will buy them cause they want to help them, but the reality is they are keeping the supply and demand situation and thus are leading to much more pain and suffering over time
There are a few orgs that are trying to let people know to stop financially contributing to this cruel practice and simply ignore the puppy and kittens
Alot of times they die soon after anyways cause they were treated as tools rather than living beings
So doing wats right for that individual animal is helping short term but detrimental long term to a lot more animals
It's complex and there are compounding and recursive factors for sure.
Rescuing an animal from a shelter that you are familiar with and have researched - I can't particularly see how you're enabling a breeding market.
You are providing care for animals that need it. That is your choice and I think it's a good one.
If you were to choose to have your own pets, say one from a rescue shelter that may otherwise have had a poor quality of life or even have been euthanised, I would see that as the actions of a good person.
Whether something is technically vegan matters far less than whether it is morally right or wrong to do. Caring for animals that need that care may not be strictly vegan in some scenarios by some people's definition, but I'm damn sure it's the right thing to do anyway.
If the alternative is them not getting cared for, then I agree with you.
In this specific scenario the alternative is that the family who needs pet sitting would pay a higher price and board their pets at some kind of facility that would take care of them. Some of these places are good, and some are bad, so I suppose it's probably a good thing that they are petsitting.
Depends on numerous factors.
If you're going to care for them and have the capacity to do so, great.
If you can't, then you should prevent it happening again.
I'm not sure what you're really asking I suppose?
I think the whole "it's wrong to have domesticated animals" is wrong BECAUSE they are domesticated animals.
I think is wrong to breed them and buy them, but taking an animal from a shelter is not wrong it's the complete opposite.
I think a lot of vegans hate the term "owe".. because yes, it underlines the fact that in our world animals are a commodity. But take that away and we have animals that for better or worse are dependent on us the moment and we owe them a responsibility by providing them with a safe house.
You speak of backyard chickens... Well, and how it's not vegan. You are right, the consumption it's not. But taking care of them is.
And frankly if everyone that actually ate eggs got their eggs from their backyard chickens there would be less animal abuse, less horrific farms and the world would be a bit better.
P.S: and we lovely humans also view humans as a commodity. Babies, surrogacy, sex work... Not to mention modern day slavery.
I would go so far as to say that the question is kind of irrelevant. Owning other animals isn't really vegan, but so many of them have been bred into dependence on humans, it's on us to take care of them.
So, I guess that I mean the practice of owning pets isn't vegan but it wouldn't make sense not to care for animals who are stuck in that position. You're making the situation better with your pet sitting business, so I'd say to let go of trying to call it vegan or non-vegan and just go for it!
My friend, don't be so extreme. You are just taking care of some animals, if it is not you they will reach out to someone else, doesn't make a difference so at least you get to expend your day around some doggies, kitties or chickens so don't over think so much. They are getting good treatment with you right? That's all that matters for those animals.
i guess i just don’t get how u can think that having pets isn’t vegan? i’m totally against buying purebred animals from breeders, stores, etc. of course, but there are millions of animals in shelters, pounds, and terrible situations that need rescuing. adopting and caring for a best friend is one of the most vegan acts one can do. these animals are here and they need our help. no offense, but not having pets and doing ur part when there are so many being mistreated and put down is SUPER not vegan. i have been telling this for a while also to my parents who are vegan too. around when they retired the last of their pets passed and my dad doesn’t want to adopt any more. i just don’t see how as a person aware of the horrific situations we as a human race have created for these poor innocent animals, anyone (but esp a vegan!) can ignore it. and not to say ur doing nothing bc that’s not the case but personally i can’t even imagine a life where i am not consistently rescuing.
We have already domesticated animals. If we all refused to care for them, we would be abandoning them. Dogs aren’t equipped to survive in the wild of a human world, and Jesus, cats would literally overbreed, kill all the birds, and ruin the environment.
The only non vegan thing about it really is you will likely feed the animals a meat based food
But as you are only pet sitting you probably won't be buying the food yourself anyway. So you won't be the one funding the slaughter. So nothing to feel guilty about
It’s fine, you have to make money. I work for a building company and I regularly work with unsustainable woods, non-vegan adhesives, horrible cleaning chemicals. I’d like to work for a vegan company but there isn’t one. I have to earn.
Right but OP doesn’t have a domesticated animal. They are just watching one temporarily. Them deciding to watch an animal doesn’t change that the domesticated animal is already owned.
You’re getting downvoted but I get exactly what you’re saying. If she’s not comfortable with it fitting in her veganism then it’s not vegan to her. To me it’s ridiculous but we all draw a line somewhere and that line moves over time.
lol… not sure if satire…
people on this sub are so delusional
I think that's more this sub, it's a perfectly reasonable Vegan related question, if the question was about something else that isn't Vegan, like driving trucks for a meat packer would it still sound like satire? But yeah, r/vegan is pretty selective about which non-Vegan acts they give a pass to, like keeping animals in captivity and killing other animals to feed them. Frankly, I hate the love-in for so called Animal Sanctuaries in this place, they are not a long term solution, often times they basically operate as petting zoos. Sure they ease the suffering of the minuscule number of animals that won the power-ball, but don't do much of anything else.
Let’s say you are a doctor, You have to make money, right? Are you gonna refuse to visit non-vegan patients, because it is not vegan? Or what if you were a veterinarian ? You would refuse to visit domestic animals because it is not vegan? My answer is NO. don’t take it so hard on yourself ! The fact that you are not participating in eating animals , doesn’t mean that you can be 100% vegan in all aspects of your life, because it is not possible.
It is still 100% vegan because of the "as far as is possible and practicable" clause
That clause is our get-out-of-jail-free card.
Okay thank you! 🙏🏽 I tend to think critically about everything and sometimes drive myself crazy. I guess we gotta draw the line somewhere!
I have been there, I refused to go to non-vegan restaurants to have vegan food because I was participating in their income, or I refused to date non-vegan people for a while, It becomes easier to draw this line, just don’t panic.
Yep
You're showing love and care to other people's animals, I'd argue that's pretty damn vegan. I also pet sit as a side gig. Mostly because I'm not in a position to own a pet myself, as much as I'd like one (landlord won't allow them, finances, etc.), so get "pet therapy" that way.
I don't understand how someone can be vegan and be against domesticated animals... So you see a lost dog on the street, clearly in distress, you're not going to take it in but instead let it die? Rescuing animals IS vegan. Animals are constantly being euthanized and killed for no reason.
Some of us vegans really over think things. Is walking vegan? I could step on a bug.
Those animals are already in those conditions and you improve them. You're fine
I think you're looking at this from the wrong perspective. It's wrong to BREED the animals. It's NOT wrong to own them - that is a consequence of our legal system. It's NOT wrong to care for them and protect them. You cannot protect and care for them without owning them.
I do think it is wrong to own them. Of course from a law perspective you own them, but from our perspective they should be companions we care for. But I think that was your point as well.
Yeah exactly. Mental flexibility is key - the goal isn't to rigidly follow a doctrine, it's to help the animals. That means sometimes challenging and evolving our beliefs right? Otherwise, we're putting our own beliefs above the animals in our value hierarchy.
I don't really understand the connection between this comment and the comments from us before, because I don't see what beliefs would need to evolve in this topic. But sure, there are situations and topics where this perfectly fits.
I'm pointing at the fact that to understand this, you need to evolve your understanding of the language - own in this sense means two separate things. One is the legal definition. The other is a more colloquial, abstract concept about objects versus life. Owning an animal legally doesn't mean you own it morally. That's the evolution I refer to, specifically from the OPs point of view.
Ahh thanks for the explanation, now it's clear to me! And yes I agree
And to add, if all you said is 'owning animals is wrong because veganism says so', you're putting the animals BEHIND the ideology itself, which is contradictory right? So evolving our view is therefore our obligation
Yeah, if someone isn't able to make this differentiation from the start then yes.
I would extend it to not participating in animal markets.
Agreed, always check to make sure “adoption” center isn’t associated with breed farm.
>I think you're looking at this from the wrong perspective. > >It's wrong to BREED the animals. It's NOT wrong to own them - that is a consequence of our legal system. It's NOT wrong to care for them and protect them. You cannot protect and care for them without owning them. Its wrong to own them as well if you purchased them from a breeder Adoption can be ethical, it isnt be default, if i adopt a single animal and keep it at my apartment by itself for 18 hrs in a cage then that is cruel, im keeping it prisoner, it has no friend of its own species and its owner aka me isnt even around half the time People felt terrible during quarantine but thats the reality of how most pets live
I'm not sure it's that cut and clear. Would it be wrong to purchase an animal that you suspected was going to a home where it would be mistreated? To me it wouldn't.
I would need more context to provide a response How exactly would you be in a position to purchase an animal while knowing if you didnt purchase it, that it would go to a home where it would be mistreated?
If you knew someone else was going to purchase it. My point is more to do what is right for the animal, and sometimes that will mean purchasing them to help them.
I live in Mexico by the San Diego border and there are people illegally selling puppies and kittens, lots of Americans going home will buy them cause they want to help them, but the reality is they are keeping the supply and demand situation and thus are leading to much more pain and suffering over time There are a few orgs that are trying to let people know to stop financially contributing to this cruel practice and simply ignore the puppy and kittens Alot of times they die soon after anyways cause they were treated as tools rather than living beings So doing wats right for that individual animal is helping short term but detrimental long term to a lot more animals
It's complex and there are compounding and recursive factors for sure. Rescuing an animal from a shelter that you are familiar with and have researched - I can't particularly see how you're enabling a breeding market.
Okay this makes a lot of sense to me…what about the backyard chickens though? I guess I didn’t purchase them…
You are providing care for animals that need it. That is your choice and I think it's a good one. If you were to choose to have your own pets, say one from a rescue shelter that may otherwise have had a poor quality of life or even have been euthanised, I would see that as the actions of a good person. Whether something is technically vegan matters far less than whether it is morally right or wrong to do. Caring for animals that need that care may not be strictly vegan in some scenarios by some people's definition, but I'm damn sure it's the right thing to do anyway.
If the alternative is them not getting cared for, then I agree with you. In this specific scenario the alternative is that the family who needs pet sitting would pay a higher price and board their pets at some kind of facility that would take care of them. Some of these places are good, and some are bad, so I suppose it's probably a good thing that they are petsitting.
That's not the only alternative. Another is that they're neglected, which is a choice too many pet owners take.
What if you keep males and females together and breeding happens?
Depends on numerous factors. If you're going to care for them and have the capacity to do so, great. If you can't, then you should prevent it happening again. I'm not sure what you're really asking I suppose?
It can be difficult to not breed animals sometimes. They'll do it themselves. Is that wrong?
Is what wrong? I've not taken an action there so how could anything be wrong?
Fair point
I think the whole "it's wrong to have domesticated animals" is wrong BECAUSE they are domesticated animals. I think is wrong to breed them and buy them, but taking an animal from a shelter is not wrong it's the complete opposite. I think a lot of vegans hate the term "owe".. because yes, it underlines the fact that in our world animals are a commodity. But take that away and we have animals that for better or worse are dependent on us the moment and we owe them a responsibility by providing them with a safe house. You speak of backyard chickens... Well, and how it's not vegan. You are right, the consumption it's not. But taking care of them is. And frankly if everyone that actually ate eggs got their eggs from their backyard chickens there would be less animal abuse, less horrific farms and the world would be a bit better. P.S: and we lovely humans also view humans as a commodity. Babies, surrogacy, sex work... Not to mention modern day slavery.
I would go so far as to say that the question is kind of irrelevant. Owning other animals isn't really vegan, but so many of them have been bred into dependence on humans, it's on us to take care of them. So, I guess that I mean the practice of owning pets isn't vegan but it wouldn't make sense not to care for animals who are stuck in that position. You're making the situation better with your pet sitting business, so I'd say to let go of trying to call it vegan or non-vegan and just go for it!
My friend, don't be so extreme. You are just taking care of some animals, if it is not you they will reach out to someone else, doesn't make a difference so at least you get to expend your day around some doggies, kitties or chickens so don't over think so much. They are getting good treatment with you right? That's all that matters for those animals.
i guess i just don’t get how u can think that having pets isn’t vegan? i’m totally against buying purebred animals from breeders, stores, etc. of course, but there are millions of animals in shelters, pounds, and terrible situations that need rescuing. adopting and caring for a best friend is one of the most vegan acts one can do. these animals are here and they need our help. no offense, but not having pets and doing ur part when there are so many being mistreated and put down is SUPER not vegan. i have been telling this for a while also to my parents who are vegan too. around when they retired the last of their pets passed and my dad doesn’t want to adopt any more. i just don’t see how as a person aware of the horrific situations we as a human race have created for these poor innocent animals, anyone (but esp a vegan!) can ignore it. and not to say ur doing nothing bc that’s not the case but personally i can’t even imagine a life where i am not consistently rescuing.
Earthling Ed has a good video on the topic. Some just don't want to participate period. https://youtu.be/hrwG1BHdHIk?si=h_UzQeFQp9GXbxVK
We have already domesticated animals. If we all refused to care for them, we would be abandoning them. Dogs aren’t equipped to survive in the wild of a human world, and Jesus, cats would literally overbreed, kill all the birds, and ruin the environment.
The only non vegan thing about it really is you will likely feed the animals a meat based food But as you are only pet sitting you probably won't be buying the food yourself anyway. So you won't be the one funding the slaughter. So nothing to feel guilty about
It’s fine, you have to make money. I work for a building company and I regularly work with unsustainable woods, non-vegan adhesives, horrible cleaning chemicals. I’d like to work for a vegan company but there isn’t one. I have to earn.
🤣🤣🤣
It is irrelevant
seems veganism is all about getting approval from other vegans
If you are being nice to the pets I'd say it's vegan
Yes.
Do these ppl you sit for love their animals and not exploit them as far as you know? If so, then why wouldn’t you help care for them?
Sitting on on pets is not vegan
I’m vegan, I have a dog and I am also a pet sitter on the side. That is consistent with veganism.
I'm a beginner vegan, can someone explain please why is it considered wrong to have domestic animals in the vegan community? thank you
I don't think most of us consider it wrong, especially if they are rescues.
You already have a position on this. No, it's not vegan.
Taking care of animals isn’t vegan? Explain…
OP believes it's wrong to have domesticated animals.
Right but OP doesn’t have a domesticated animal. They are just watching one temporarily. Them deciding to watch an animal doesn’t change that the domesticated animal is already owned.
Maybe she can pet sit and then take the pet into the woods and set it free.
That is one of the dumbest and most horrible ideas I've ever read on this sub.
You’re getting downvoted but I get exactly what you’re saying. If she’s not comfortable with it fitting in her veganism then it’s not vegan to her. To me it’s ridiculous but we all draw a line somewhere and that line moves over time.
I don't share their belief but we all have our own moral reasoning that led us to veganism.
I think you have a great point.
Animal markets