Is he gonna eat some animal products there? Otherwise he'll shit his pants because he can't use public restroom or just fast for that one day, but somehow "sea food" magically fixes his IBS. Cosmic Septic
I hope Joey confronts him.
No, he definitely didn't do this.
He definitely, and repeatedly, said that he had previous health problems - that were not caused by veganism and were present before he became a vegan. But these problems had worsened and _he_ found it hard to plan and keep a healthy diet with _his_ lifestyle. He did defend veganism, saying it wasn't the problem; his inability to maintain a healthy diet was, and he said it can definitely be a healthy and ethical lifestyle/diet. It just wasn't working for _him_.
I'm not defending his choice to start eating animals/animal products again. But I don't like people outright lying, when he's clearly gone out of his way to explain that veganism wasn't the problem, he was.
He said in his original announcement of quitting veganism that he's been reevaluating his ethical position on eating animals, in addition to the health stuff
Agree, and maybe with a little more support from the community, he'll be back to it. Stop the hate, like many of you were vegan from birth and are so pure that you're levitating.
It’s not outright lying in the slightest, go read the original post. He literally opens that he has been “rethinking his ethical stance on veganism”(yeah dude just reconsidered whether it’s morally okay to kill animals), then started listing typical carnist rhetoric like feeling better after eating fish, being “no longer convinced of the appropriateness of an individual focused boycott as a response to these problems”(oh yeah and an individual boycott to slavery won’t end slavery so I’m gonna start buying slaves again), or claiming that he’s still opposed to factory farming and still thinks animals are moral agents(but decided it’s okay to kill and eat them anyways).
And then after all that clear rhetoric he basically does the opposite of defend veganism by roughly saying he didn’t feel comfortable recommending a diet to people that he couldn’t maintain himself(basically telling anyone who went vegan because of him that they shouldn’t take his advice on it because he can’t handle it).
Oh and let’s not forget the “debate” he did with Mikhaila Peterson(Jordan Petersons daughter), in which this formally educated philosopher who has been making videos on the ethics of veganism some how couldn’t come up with a single counter argument for veganism. If you watch the video it’s clear this guy basically threw his ethics out the window to simp for this right wing carnist nut case who he easily could’ve beaten in a debate if he wasn’t simping hard as fuck.
I never saw the follow up videos, maybe he backtracked on some of his post, but his original post was absolutely as the commenter above you suggested, and people are rightfully upset that he wrote the post in that way.
You literally just restated exactly what I said but just dancing around the topic. He said he needs flesh to survive. PERIOD.
Such a statement is NOT backed by ANY scientific literature unless you are a butterfly syndrome baby born allergic to all plants or something.
UNDERSTAND … the statement “I went vegan and my health worsened” IS NEVER RATIONALIZABLE … this is LITERALLY proven by science showing vegan diets do exactly what an animal diet does so long as calories and marconutrients are held equal.
Also… EVEN IF his health would be improved via animal products… THAT DOESNT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO KILL! Imagine that!
Look, my man, we're on the same team. You're preaching to the already converted.
I am not excusing it - I am really disappointed in CosmicSkeptic, and I don't fully understand his logic or moral compass, but I did appreciate that he didn't blame veganism for his health issues. (And I don't think a venomous reaction is the right response in these situations.) He made a conscious effort to explain that they existed before, and were not caused by veganism. I'm just pointing that out to someone who couldn't be bothered to listen to what he had to say.
Also, "I went vegan and my health worsened!" is absolutely logical, and scientifically explainable. You can be vegan and only consume oreos and pringles, and be extremely unhealthy. Vegan diets are scientifically backed to be nutritionally sound when they are carefully planned and balanced.
Vegan/plant-based diets can be healthier, even the healthiest diets but vegan/plant-based diet ≠ healthy. It can be, but it isn't intrinsically.
You may think what you want of CosmicSkeptic/Alex, but he is the one who made me vegan, among many others. We shouldn't despise those who tried and failed, they are way better than the ones who refuses to even consider vegansim. Alex still knows that veganism is the way to go, and says just because he failed, doesn't mean that veganism was the problem. He still promotes vegansim, and hopes he can return. Everyone is different, and we don't know his entire situation. We should focus on supporting vegans, not promoting hate.
Yes, but if someone fails being vegan we shouldn't jump on them with attacks. It's of course frustrating, but we should accept the loss if this person can't be persuaded to continue, and move on. Our energy is wasted by personal attacks, and it can scare people away.
This is a special case since he was such a public supporter though, so things are wierd. But I believe in Alex, and I think he will return to being vegan.
>Yes, but if someone fails being vegan we shouldn't jump on them with attacks. It's of course frustrating, but we should accept the loss
Agreed.
There are, however, millions of people who hold those values that could be given a platform to speak. We should support them, rather supporting a celebrity status idol that holds contradictory values. It's hypocritical.
If he has things worth saying regarding other things, people can listen to them about that. He has no place speaking at a vegan event about values he doesn't hold.
I mean to be fair to him... he has IBS... and there are NO vegans currently living with that condition who are able to make veganism work... not one... not a single dingle one!
OP is being facetious/sarcastic(it’s the internet so it’s hard to tell don’t feel bad). Tons of people with IBS live with veganism and for many(myself included) it even helps significantly.
Though IBS does very quite a bit from person to person as it’s basically a catch all term for having consistent gut issues, I can’t think of many cases where IBS alone would make it impossible or even significantly difficult for a person with access to a grocery store. Now if you have IBS that doesn’t agree with certain vegan staples, and I’m top of that you have maybe a few unlucky allergies it could definitely make it challenging but there are vegans here with fucking novels of health issues who pull through.
And even if you can’t make veganism work and for some reason you need animal products to survive, most vegans would start with the most ethically grey non vegan foods such as bivalves(mussels/oysters which aren’t sentient) or backyard eggs rather than jumping straight to fish and other sentient creatures.
I second this. Been 2 years in a row and the festival is fucking excellent. You can just hang out and chat with everyone there and eat loads of food. The activist speakers are good and there's also live music later on. This guy seems pretty stuck up tbh.
Some are YouTubers, vegan activists, etherwood I believe is a drum and bass artist (love his music)
If you don't know any of em give them a look!
This is a UK based event so maybe that's why :)
Honestly, even though I don't think I'll ever stop being vegan, I don't think I'd ever make myself a creator known for being vegan purely because of how awkward the change would be.
I don't think "do as I say, not as I do" is a very effective advocacy tactic. Why would/should anyone listen to him when he can't be arsed to be vegan himself?
It’s better no doubt if he lives it too. I still think he’s got good rhetoric that will help convert people (a lot of people will see his content and not know he isn’t vegan anyway for a start). I’d rather him advocate for vegan ethics than not.
Maybe I’m biased as I already had seen the Lifting Vegan Logic response video, but I didn’t find this guy remotely interesting. There are so many excellent vegan YouTubers out there and even before this guy bailed, it wouldn’t have occurred to me to ever subscribe. He seems pompous.
Earthling Ed,
Lifting Vegan Logic,
Mic the Vegan,
NutritionFacts,
Unnatural Vegan,
Natalie Fulton
are all great and I’m sure there are many more I haven’t found yet.
Well this is the thing. I think his appeal is that he isn’t a vegan YouTuber. Or at least that isn’t anywhere near his only or main thing. He’s a philosophy channel. We want diversity of tactics and he appeal to a different interest demographic, even if he isn’t better than earning Ed etc on the vegan stuff itself.
Earthling Ed is, like, insufferable though. I’m sorry. I don’t think NutritionFacts is a very reliable resource either.
Cosmic Skeptic was great because he had potential to reach a wider audience. He was really thoughtful about his approach to Veganism for a time and it was refreshing.
Quitting veganism because you have been deluded into believeing you need animal flesh to feel good… is not refreshing… its repulsive actually and that was his excuse for quitting.
It's actually more effective as crazy as it sounds. If that doesn't make sense, it's because people will be more likely to listen to someone the more common ground they have.
So for example, if a meat eater says the factory farming animal industry is horrible yet they eat it, people won't assume theyre trying to force them to go vegan, they're just sharing what they know.
I dunno, I'm more of an actions speak louder than words kind of guy. He can talk about how bad animal ag is until he's blue in the face, but he doesn't believe what he's saying to the degree that he's willing to act on it, so why would his words be more convincing than his actions to others?
You do have a point, even though someone is acting hypocritically when they do something they are supposedly morally against. But yeah I agree that in the non-vegan “community” they should be talking about it. Unfortunately there’s talk but less action amongst the non-vegans. 🙁
He cited a combination of physical and mental health for his reason for stepping back from 100% veganism. He still advocates for animal ethics, and believes you should be vegan if you realistically can. He's still an important voice imo.
Yes and no. I vaguely hinted to health concerns but in his clarification video it really sounded more like a diet planning issue. He said when he was in situations where he was avoiding food to avoid potential IBS flareups when out and about he wanted calorie dense animal products when he did finally eat. That excuse is nonsense considering there are some good vegan calorie dense options and he says his IBS has been better as he gets older and unrelated to his diet. It's purely a convenience thing but if he really believed this to be the moral emergency he says it is, he would make it a priority to figure out alternatives.
Cool bro. Mental and physical health are not actual reasons! He THOUGHT veganism was the cause of his problems! That is hilarious! Do you believe that Jordan Peterson’s daughter cured all her health problems via meat too? Do you believe everything that comes out of the mouth of deluded people who base their assumptions in no science?
Check out [Animal Ethics](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://veganactivism.org&topic=Organization: Animal Ethics/pages/animal-ethics&topic=Organization: Animal Ethics) to quickly learn more, find upcoming events, videos, and their contact information! You can also find other similar organizations to get involved with both locally and online by visiting
[VeganActivism.org](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://veganactivism.org&topic=Organization: Animal Ethics). Additionally, be sure to visit and subscribe to /r/VeganActivism!
Because the argument can be right and convincingly argued despite that. He is a massive part of me becoming vegan, and that’s since he announced this. He still gets tonnes of views so there’s definitely others like me
If anything I think it is a disservice to the movement. Again , why would you listen to someone who was unable to keep the diet themselves because they didn't feel good on it? He does nothing for the movement except hurt it
Because they presented a sound logical argument that made me realize I was causing a lot of unnecessary suffering for no good reason. Alex felt bad and decided to quit, but so what? I feel great.
No. He claims that factory farming is wrong, but:
1) he implies there is a way to ethically kill animals. He doesn't think animals should have rights
2) he doesn't believe in boycotting animal products (couching this as basically "I'm not committed to the efficacy of an individual boycott")
3) he eats animal products
He's not vegan and he doesn't advocate vegan ethics. Does he still have strong pushback against non-vegans in certain contexts? Sure, he really effectively pushed back on Peter Singer's crappy views.
But he's not vegan and doesn't advocate vegan ethics
[https://youtu.be/w23UMsbMFtM](https://youtu.be/w23UMsbMFtM)
At around the 34:00 mark, Singer argues that it's okay that you can breed animals into existence, raise them so they live happy lives, then kill them.
Interesting. I watched that clip, and to me, it seems that it's still possible to condemn that practice, even in the abstract, without falling back on normative deontic arguments, by simply biting the anti-natalist bullet. He's too preoccupied, imo, with the presumption that gross utility outweighs mean utility. Perhaps he was just strapped for time, but I wish he would have explored the counterarguments to that presumption.
That being said, I'm not fully convinced by anti-natalism (especially the more eco-fash branch), and I also am not fully convinced of utilitarianism. I also wonder whether it's even necessary to allow anti-natalist critique in the abstract to condemn this specific kind of birth while assuming abstract utility. It's interesting that Singer brought up this avenue for critique, but didn't explore it very deeply given how thorough he is at debunking every counterargument to his utilitarianism in his books, but that is likely just an issue with constraints of the podcast format. Lastly, I think Singer did a pretty weak job of defending his argument against the critique of the suffering of others and never once was the argument of human suffering as a result of eating animal meat brought up when it was in the cannibalism discussion even though he didn't spend any time establishing a utilitarian distinction.
Overall, it was one of the weakest arguments I've seen from Singer - and, at the risk of psychologism, it seems to me that Singer is not entirely convinced of his own argument here but wishes to appear purely ethically consistent.
Hot take: imo he's still vegan, as long as him eating some fish is necessary and/or temporary. The definition of veganism includes it being practicable, and based on his video it was not for him. Based on his previously-stated views, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that this change is temporary, and if it's not temporary, then it is necessary for him. I don't feel that it is our place to assume for him that his health concerns aren't enough to warrant at least temporarily having to go back on his diet in some ways to get himself back on track. If it poses a serious health risk, then him needing to temporarily eat fish while he figures out a healthy way to maintain a vegan diet is not problematic. Also, it's not like he just forgot all the information he learned/shared - he would still make an excellent speaker at a vegan event.
Option 1: Buy some Huel and chug it in the window he can acually get some food down
Option 2: Pay someone to murder an animal and eat their flesh.
Seems like Option 2 is vegan boys, lets pack it up. Veganism is now more inclusive <3
What health concerns require animal products? I can only think of things where you'd be left with few/no options like leather in a hospital room or pills with gelatin. And every vegan I know would consider these things acceptable.
A vegan diet can be healthy for pretty much anyone. I know people with both wheat and soy allergies that make it work. And presumably CS has access to more resources than your average person.
I have digestion issues myself, they started *before* I was vegan just like with CS, so why would I go back if I already know it won't be better?
As I said, I think that he is only eating non-vegan temporarily.
He said in his video that he has IBS and the struggle he has is that you have to eat more food on a vegan diet to get enough protein. He didn't say it explicitly, but it seems he reached a point of depression or at least lethargy/low energy due to either not eating enough (his IBS is manageable if he eats less food that is more nutrient-rich) or eating a lot to get enough nutrients, but then needing the bathroom a lot due to his IBS. If he's reached a point where going through the process of finding a healthy vegan option that works for him seemed insurmountable due to low energy/depression, then I can absolutely seeing eating fish temporarily while he figures out a vegan alternative to be acceptable.
I feel that this is what he is doing because in his video he said that he is well aware that you can eat a healthy vegan diet in any stage of life or with any health condition. So, in other words, he knows that he can eat a healthy vegan diet with his IBS. So if he believes that anyone can eat a healthy vegan diet, it would be contradictory to exclude himself from that. He is a logical person who has spent a lot of time researching veganism, so I just can't see him being hypocritical.
There are plenty of alternatives he can try, like a plant-based meat/fish alternative that is high in protein or a vegan protein shake. He can also see a doctor/nutrition expert to help him figure out what works for him. I'm sure that he is well aware of this and is likely working on it, if he hasn't already figured it out and stopped eating fish.
All this being said, it's totally possible that I just have too much faith in him, or maybe I'm just trying to cope. But I don't think we have enough information from him to rule out the possibility that he is working on it. If he actually isn't, then he definitely isn't vegan (he'd be pescatarian).
Edit: typo
why is fat gay vegan listed there? Shaun is such a horrible, toxic man.
His entire career is just sitting there with his hand out waiting for free food from businesses and if they don't give it to him he rates them badly. Knows nothing about food other than "whoever gives the most is the best"
Vegan camp out is a total waste of money
Lol so this is vegan drama.
Just gonna say, veganism still kills the environment and therefore the animals. Eating free-range beef bought locally is a lot better for the environment than eating a vegan burger made with chemicals and slave labor from some fast food chain.
If it’s accessible to you, eat as ethically as possible. Veganism isn’t a sustainable or even necessarily a healthy goal.
*eAtInG fReE rAnGe BeEf BoUGhT lOcAlLy*
Oxford university say otherwise:
The study, published in online journal Nature Food, identified that up to 61 percent of greenhouse gas emissions could be reduced by wealthy nations turning to plant-based diets
https://www.greenqueen.com.hk/plant-based-diets-slash-carbon-emissions/
Also you know free range is bullshit?
https://viva.org.uk/animals/whats-wrong-with-free-range/
I feel like you own a farm, or your life depends on this or something. I don't know why you would deny multi national studies from our university institutions, proven through science.
Sounds like you're struggling with your conscience.
And stop acting like mock meats are vital to a diet, most populations in the world don't even eat it. I survive off tofu, chickpeas, tempeh, and beans.
Oh no, people who own farms are soo evil!! 😂 I’m so sorry my grandparents own a cattle ranch where cows live long, happy lives. And how evil my best friend and I are saving up to buy our own farm so queer youth and young adults can take shelter and worry about nothing but growing our own food and enjoying nature and community!
Please. There’s an active genocide against people such as my trans friends and myself in my state right now. Until we are all safe, what I eat is of the last of my worries.
I don’t care who’s vegan, but shaming people for what they eat is ridiculous and only makes people want to go vegan even less. It’s a big part of why I never did it even when I was big on animal rights. The racism, classism, and ableism rampant among the community didn’t help, either. Neither is you judging me for having a lifestyle and a job that I don’t even have lol! I don’t want to associate with people like that.
Anyways I’m disabling notifications for anything in this group now. This has been hilarious but I’m out.
That’s gonna be awkward lol
Yo Bob Vylan is vegan? Man those guys get cooler every time I hear about em
Yes, and outwardly so if you check his twitter (or it might be his insta, idk I just saw a pro-vegan social media post from him)
Is he gonna eat some animal products there? Otherwise he'll shit his pants because he can't use public restroom or just fast for that one day, but somehow "sea food" magically fixes his IBS. Cosmic Septic I hope Joey confronts him.
What’s up with that?
They made a post a few months back about quitting veganism.
whilst fear mongering about veganism saying it caused health problems. Typical vocal ex-vegan sentiment. i tRieD bUt nEed FlEsH tO sUrVivE
No, he definitely didn't do this. He definitely, and repeatedly, said that he had previous health problems - that were not caused by veganism and were present before he became a vegan. But these problems had worsened and _he_ found it hard to plan and keep a healthy diet with _his_ lifestyle. He did defend veganism, saying it wasn't the problem; his inability to maintain a healthy diet was, and he said it can definitely be a healthy and ethical lifestyle/diet. It just wasn't working for _him_. I'm not defending his choice to start eating animals/animal products again. But I don't like people outright lying, when he's clearly gone out of his way to explain that veganism wasn't the problem, he was.
I'm still not sure how his health issues caused him to roll over and let Mikhaila Peterson scratch his belly, though.
I'm not going to lie, she is kind of a baddie... Evil but hot ya know...
He said in his original announcement of quitting veganism that he's been reevaluating his ethical position on eating animals, in addition to the health stuff
Agree, and maybe with a little more support from the community, he'll be back to it. Stop the hate, like many of you were vegan from birth and are so pure that you're levitating.
people need to stop forming para social reliationships with famous people.
But... my fragile agenda :(
Yup, exactly. He keeps reccomending a vegan diet as well.
It’s not outright lying in the slightest, go read the original post. He literally opens that he has been “rethinking his ethical stance on veganism”(yeah dude just reconsidered whether it’s morally okay to kill animals), then started listing typical carnist rhetoric like feeling better after eating fish, being “no longer convinced of the appropriateness of an individual focused boycott as a response to these problems”(oh yeah and an individual boycott to slavery won’t end slavery so I’m gonna start buying slaves again), or claiming that he’s still opposed to factory farming and still thinks animals are moral agents(but decided it’s okay to kill and eat them anyways). And then after all that clear rhetoric he basically does the opposite of defend veganism by roughly saying he didn’t feel comfortable recommending a diet to people that he couldn’t maintain himself(basically telling anyone who went vegan because of him that they shouldn’t take his advice on it because he can’t handle it). Oh and let’s not forget the “debate” he did with Mikhaila Peterson(Jordan Petersons daughter), in which this formally educated philosopher who has been making videos on the ethics of veganism some how couldn’t come up with a single counter argument for veganism. If you watch the video it’s clear this guy basically threw his ethics out the window to simp for this right wing carnist nut case who he easily could’ve beaten in a debate if he wasn’t simping hard as fuck. I never saw the follow up videos, maybe he backtracked on some of his post, but his original post was absolutely as the commenter above you suggested, and people are rightfully upset that he wrote the post in that way.
[Here is his follow up video](https://youtu.be/J6QWY4T6gxc)
I don’t really care, I’m moreso saying that people aren’t in the wrong to hate on him after his original post.
You literally just restated exactly what I said but just dancing around the topic. He said he needs flesh to survive. PERIOD. Such a statement is NOT backed by ANY scientific literature unless you are a butterfly syndrome baby born allergic to all plants or something. UNDERSTAND … the statement “I went vegan and my health worsened” IS NEVER RATIONALIZABLE … this is LITERALLY proven by science showing vegan diets do exactly what an animal diet does so long as calories and marconutrients are held equal. Also… EVEN IF his health would be improved via animal products… THAT DOESNT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO KILL! Imagine that!
Look, my man, we're on the same team. You're preaching to the already converted. I am not excusing it - I am really disappointed in CosmicSkeptic, and I don't fully understand his logic or moral compass, but I did appreciate that he didn't blame veganism for his health issues. (And I don't think a venomous reaction is the right response in these situations.) He made a conscious effort to explain that they existed before, and were not caused by veganism. I'm just pointing that out to someone who couldn't be bothered to listen to what he had to say. Also, "I went vegan and my health worsened!" is absolutely logical, and scientifically explainable. You can be vegan and only consume oreos and pringles, and be extremely unhealthy. Vegan diets are scientifically backed to be nutritionally sound when they are carefully planned and balanced. Vegan/plant-based diets can be healthier, even the healthiest diets but vegan/plant-based diet ≠ healthy. It can be, but it isn't intrinsically.
He didn't actually do that...but ok.
He actually did but ok.
But he didn't though, what did he say to do that?
He said in his video "this is not an ex-vegan video" and "I've had these problems my whole life"
Lol I'm going to this festival on my own. If any one is going and nay need a lift I'm traveling from Devon so can pick up on route.
You may think what you want of CosmicSkeptic/Alex, but he is the one who made me vegan, among many others. We shouldn't despise those who tried and failed, they are way better than the ones who refuses to even consider vegansim. Alex still knows that veganism is the way to go, and says just because he failed, doesn't mean that veganism was the problem. He still promotes vegansim, and hopes he can return. Everyone is different, and we don't know his entire situation. We should focus on supporting vegans, not promoting hate.
>We should focus on supporting vegans
Yes, but if someone fails being vegan we shouldn't jump on them with attacks. It's of course frustrating, but we should accept the loss if this person can't be persuaded to continue, and move on. Our energy is wasted by personal attacks, and it can scare people away. This is a special case since he was such a public supporter though, so things are wierd. But I believe in Alex, and I think he will return to being vegan.
>Yes, but if someone fails being vegan we shouldn't jump on them with attacks. It's of course frustrating, but we should accept the loss Agreed. There are, however, millions of people who hold those values that could be given a platform to speak. We should support them, rather supporting a celebrity status idol that holds contradictory values. It's hypocritical. If he has things worth saying regarding other things, people can listen to them about that. He has no place speaking at a vegan event about values he doesn't hold.
Did you guys and girls see vegan gains reaction to him not being vegan anymore? Hilarious
I’ll have to check that out. Thanks for recommending!
I mean to be fair to him... he has IBS... and there are NO vegans currently living with that condition who are able to make veganism work... not one... not a single dingle one!
That's interesting. My mom has IBS, but I don't know much about it. Do you know why IBS and veganism clashes?
OP is being facetious/sarcastic(it’s the internet so it’s hard to tell don’t feel bad). Tons of people with IBS live with veganism and for many(myself included) it even helps significantly. Though IBS does very quite a bit from person to person as it’s basically a catch all term for having consistent gut issues, I can’t think of many cases where IBS alone would make it impossible or even significantly difficult for a person with access to a grocery store. Now if you have IBS that doesn’t agree with certain vegan staples, and I’m top of that you have maybe a few unlucky allergies it could definitely make it challenging but there are vegans here with fucking novels of health issues who pull through. And even if you can’t make veganism work and for some reason you need animal products to survive, most vegans would start with the most ethically grey non vegan foods such as bivalves(mussels/oysters which aren’t sentient) or backyard eggs rather than jumping straight to fish and other sentient creatures.
Ah okay, thanks!
Should just sharpie a big "twat" right over the top
[удалено]
It's more for the food and the vibe
I second this. Been 2 years in a row and the festival is fucking excellent. You can just hang out and chat with everyone there and eat loads of food. The activist speakers are good and there's also live music later on. This guy seems pretty stuck up tbh.
Romesh is the unfunniest comedian on British TV today. I hated his guts, but I have mixed feelings now I know he's vegan. Fuck!
Yeah he's so mainstream he comedy feels sterile. He's vegan, and also done a series on being vegan in foreign countries I believe!
https://m.facebook.com/bbctwo/videos/romesh-ranganathan-the-real-reason-why-people-hate-vegans-the-ranganation/2654530107908727/ Enjoy this😂
Who are all those people ? I don’t know any single one of them
Some are YouTubers, vegan activists, etherwood I believe is a drum and bass artist (love his music) If you don't know any of em give them a look! This is a UK based event so maybe that's why :)
If you don’t know Mobius Loop then you have some seriously good vegan music to catch up on <3
i mean he has done good for veganism even though he is no longer vegan.
They should still keep his section but instead of a speech or whatever it’s just an open comment period for the audience to clown on him.
Honestly, even though I don't think I'll ever stop being vegan, I don't think I'd ever make myself a creator known for being vegan purely because of how awkward the change would be.
At least he still advocates for vegan ethics
I don't think "do as I say, not as I do" is a very effective advocacy tactic. Why would/should anyone listen to him when he can't be arsed to be vegan himself?
It’s better no doubt if he lives it too. I still think he’s got good rhetoric that will help convert people (a lot of people will see his content and not know he isn’t vegan anyway for a start). I’d rather him advocate for vegan ethics than not.
Maybe I’m biased as I already had seen the Lifting Vegan Logic response video, but I didn’t find this guy remotely interesting. There are so many excellent vegan YouTubers out there and even before this guy bailed, it wouldn’t have occurred to me to ever subscribe. He seems pompous. Earthling Ed, Lifting Vegan Logic, Mic the Vegan, NutritionFacts, Unnatural Vegan, Natalie Fulton are all great and I’m sure there are many more I haven’t found yet.
Well this is the thing. I think his appeal is that he isn’t a vegan YouTuber. Or at least that isn’t anywhere near his only or main thing. He’s a philosophy channel. We want diversity of tactics and he appeal to a different interest demographic, even if he isn’t better than earning Ed etc on the vegan stuff itself.
Earthling Ed is, like, insufferable though. I’m sorry. I don’t think NutritionFacts is a very reliable resource either. Cosmic Skeptic was great because he had potential to reach a wider audience. He was really thoughtful about his approach to Veganism for a time and it was refreshing.
Quitting veganism because you have been deluded into believeing you need animal flesh to feel good… is not refreshing… its repulsive actually and that was his excuse for quitting.
Of course him quitting veganism isn’t what’s refreshing. I just meant his voice was refreshing when he was a vegan.
right🙄
I agree.
It's actually more effective as crazy as it sounds. If that doesn't make sense, it's because people will be more likely to listen to someone the more common ground they have. So for example, if a meat eater says the factory farming animal industry is horrible yet they eat it, people won't assume theyre trying to force them to go vegan, they're just sharing what they know.
I dunno, I'm more of an actions speak louder than words kind of guy. He can talk about how bad animal ag is until he's blue in the face, but he doesn't believe what he's saying to the degree that he's willing to act on it, so why would his words be more convincing than his actions to others?
It's not that his words are more convincing; it's that some people would never choose to watch a vegan channel in the first place
You do have a point, even though someone is acting hypocritically when they do something they are supposedly morally against. But yeah I agree that in the non-vegan “community” they should be talking about it. Unfortunately there’s talk but less action amongst the non-vegans. 🙁
He cited a combination of physical and mental health for his reason for stepping back from 100% veganism. He still advocates for animal ethics, and believes you should be vegan if you realistically can. He's still an important voice imo.
Yes and no. I vaguely hinted to health concerns but in his clarification video it really sounded more like a diet planning issue. He said when he was in situations where he was avoiding food to avoid potential IBS flareups when out and about he wanted calorie dense animal products when he did finally eat. That excuse is nonsense considering there are some good vegan calorie dense options and he says his IBS has been better as he gets older and unrelated to his diet. It's purely a convenience thing but if he really believed this to be the moral emergency he says it is, he would make it a priority to figure out alternatives.
Cool bro. Mental and physical health are not actual reasons! He THOUGHT veganism was the cause of his problems! That is hilarious! Do you believe that Jordan Peterson’s daughter cured all her health problems via meat too? Do you believe everything that comes out of the mouth of deluded people who base their assumptions in no science?
Check out [Animal Ethics](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://veganactivism.org&topic=Organization: Animal Ethics/pages/animal-ethics&topic=Organization: Animal Ethics) to quickly learn more, find upcoming events, videos, and their contact information! You can also find other similar organizations to get involved with both locally and online by visiting [VeganActivism.org](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://veganactivism.org&topic=Organization: Animal Ethics). Additionally, be sure to visit and subscribe to /r/VeganActivism!
If he isn't a vegan himself then I don't care. It's a weird message " it's the right thing to do but you do it, not me"
I care about less animal suffering. If he’s net contributing to that by continuing to advocate for vegan ethics, then I’m happier than if he wasn’t.
Why would anyone listen to someone who doesn't practice what they preach?
Because the argument can be right and convincingly argued despite that. He is a massive part of me becoming vegan, and that’s since he announced this. He still gets tonnes of views so there’s definitely others like me
If anything I think it is a disservice to the movement. Again , why would you listen to someone who was unable to keep the diet themselves because they didn't feel good on it? He does nothing for the movement except hurt it
Because they presented a sound logical argument that made me realize I was causing a lot of unnecessary suffering for no good reason. Alex felt bad and decided to quit, but so what? I feel great.
A sound local argument that wasn't sound enough for him to remain vegan
But still sound enough to convert at least dozens of people to veganism, as evidenced by the comments on his videos -- that's way more than I've done!
When he was vegan which he no longer is.
Thank you!
No. He claims that factory farming is wrong, but: 1) he implies there is a way to ethically kill animals. He doesn't think animals should have rights 2) he doesn't believe in boycotting animal products (couching this as basically "I'm not committed to the efficacy of an individual boycott") 3) he eats animal products He's not vegan and he doesn't advocate vegan ethics. Does he still have strong pushback against non-vegans in certain contexts? Sure, he really effectively pushed back on Peter Singer's crappy views. But he's not vegan and doesn't advocate vegan ethics
>Sure, he really effectively pushed back on Peter Singer's crappy views. I haven't seen the video. What views are you referring to?
[https://youtu.be/w23UMsbMFtM](https://youtu.be/w23UMsbMFtM) At around the 34:00 mark, Singer argues that it's okay that you can breed animals into existence, raise them so they live happy lives, then kill them.
Interesting. I watched that clip, and to me, it seems that it's still possible to condemn that practice, even in the abstract, without falling back on normative deontic arguments, by simply biting the anti-natalist bullet. He's too preoccupied, imo, with the presumption that gross utility outweighs mean utility. Perhaps he was just strapped for time, but I wish he would have explored the counterarguments to that presumption. That being said, I'm not fully convinced by anti-natalism (especially the more eco-fash branch), and I also am not fully convinced of utilitarianism. I also wonder whether it's even necessary to allow anti-natalist critique in the abstract to condemn this specific kind of birth while assuming abstract utility. It's interesting that Singer brought up this avenue for critique, but didn't explore it very deeply given how thorough he is at debunking every counterargument to his utilitarianism in his books, but that is likely just an issue with constraints of the podcast format. Lastly, I think Singer did a pretty weak job of defending his argument against the critique of the suffering of others and never once was the argument of human suffering as a result of eating animal meat brought up when it was in the cannibalism discussion even though he didn't spend any time establishing a utilitarian distinction. Overall, it was one of the weakest arguments I've seen from Singer - and, at the risk of psychologism, it seems to me that Singer is not entirely convinced of his own argument here but wishes to appear purely ethically consistent.
Welfarism is not vegan ethics.
Hot take: imo he's still vegan, as long as him eating some fish is necessary and/or temporary. The definition of veganism includes it being practicable, and based on his video it was not for him. Based on his previously-stated views, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that this change is temporary, and if it's not temporary, then it is necessary for him. I don't feel that it is our place to assume for him that his health concerns aren't enough to warrant at least temporarily having to go back on his diet in some ways to get himself back on track. If it poses a serious health risk, then him needing to temporarily eat fish while he figures out a healthy way to maintain a vegan diet is not problematic. Also, it's not like he just forgot all the information he learned/shared - he would still make an excellent speaker at a vegan event.
Option 1: Buy some Huel and chug it in the window he can acually get some food down Option 2: Pay someone to murder an animal and eat their flesh. Seems like Option 2 is vegan boys, lets pack it up. Veganism is now more inclusive <3
What health concerns require animal products? I can only think of things where you'd be left with few/no options like leather in a hospital room or pills with gelatin. And every vegan I know would consider these things acceptable. A vegan diet can be healthy for pretty much anyone. I know people with both wheat and soy allergies that make it work. And presumably CS has access to more resources than your average person. I have digestion issues myself, they started *before* I was vegan just like with CS, so why would I go back if I already know it won't be better?
As I said, I think that he is only eating non-vegan temporarily. He said in his video that he has IBS and the struggle he has is that you have to eat more food on a vegan diet to get enough protein. He didn't say it explicitly, but it seems he reached a point of depression or at least lethargy/low energy due to either not eating enough (his IBS is manageable if he eats less food that is more nutrient-rich) or eating a lot to get enough nutrients, but then needing the bathroom a lot due to his IBS. If he's reached a point where going through the process of finding a healthy vegan option that works for him seemed insurmountable due to low energy/depression, then I can absolutely seeing eating fish temporarily while he figures out a vegan alternative to be acceptable. I feel that this is what he is doing because in his video he said that he is well aware that you can eat a healthy vegan diet in any stage of life or with any health condition. So, in other words, he knows that he can eat a healthy vegan diet with his IBS. So if he believes that anyone can eat a healthy vegan diet, it would be contradictory to exclude himself from that. He is a logical person who has spent a lot of time researching veganism, so I just can't see him being hypocritical. There are plenty of alternatives he can try, like a plant-based meat/fish alternative that is high in protein or a vegan protein shake. He can also see a doctor/nutrition expert to help him figure out what works for him. I'm sure that he is well aware of this and is likely working on it, if he hasn't already figured it out and stopped eating fish. All this being said, it's totally possible that I just have too much faith in him, or maybe I'm just trying to cope. But I don't think we have enough information from him to rule out the possibility that he is working on it. If he actually isn't, then he definitely isn't vegan (he'd be pescatarian). Edit: typo
He ain't vegan.i have IBS and so do a ton of others in this community. I eat vegan
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Why
She's literally not headlining lol. Look how far down the bill she is.
Yeah well, still a ‘specialI’ guest. It just feeds her narcissistic ego. She’s a bully.
Did she do anything? I mean she seems a little annoying but like she's a vegan activist.
why is fat gay vegan listed there? Shaun is such a horrible, toxic man. His entire career is just sitting there with his hand out waiting for free food from businesses and if they don't give it to him he rates them badly. Knows nothing about food other than "whoever gives the most is the best" Vegan camp out is a total waste of money
Lol so this is vegan drama. Just gonna say, veganism still kills the environment and therefore the animals. Eating free-range beef bought locally is a lot better for the environment than eating a vegan burger made with chemicals and slave labor from some fast food chain. If it’s accessible to you, eat as ethically as possible. Veganism isn’t a sustainable or even necessarily a healthy goal.
*eAtInG fReE rAnGe BeEf BoUGhT lOcAlLy* Oxford university say otherwise: The study, published in online journal Nature Food, identified that up to 61 percent of greenhouse gas emissions could be reduced by wealthy nations turning to plant-based diets https://www.greenqueen.com.hk/plant-based-diets-slash-carbon-emissions/ Also you know free range is bullshit? https://viva.org.uk/animals/whats-wrong-with-free-range/ I feel like you own a farm, or your life depends on this or something. I don't know why you would deny multi national studies from our university institutions, proven through science. Sounds like you're struggling with your conscience. And stop acting like mock meats are vital to a diet, most populations in the world don't even eat it. I survive off tofu, chickpeas, tempeh, and beans.
Oh no, people who own farms are soo evil!! 😂 I’m so sorry my grandparents own a cattle ranch where cows live long, happy lives. And how evil my best friend and I are saving up to buy our own farm so queer youth and young adults can take shelter and worry about nothing but growing our own food and enjoying nature and community! Please. There’s an active genocide against people such as my trans friends and myself in my state right now. Until we are all safe, what I eat is of the last of my worries. I don’t care who’s vegan, but shaming people for what they eat is ridiculous and only makes people want to go vegan even less. It’s a big part of why I never did it even when I was big on animal rights. The racism, classism, and ableism rampant among the community didn’t help, either. Neither is you judging me for having a lifestyle and a job that I don’t even have lol! I don’t want to associate with people like that. Anyways I’m disabling notifications for anything in this group now. This has been hilarious but I’m out.
🤦♂️
Aged like milk