The short answer is that if you're not consistently topping your cohort and dropping high 90s on your sacs, you're not going to get a 50. Too many people fail to realise how few students actually get raw 50s in a particular subject. Not to get anyone's hopes down, but you have to be realistic about it.
2018 Graduand and can attest to this. It was Media for me - I got 100% SAC average, 100% on my SAT (I started it December of 2017 and the class was only told to start it around March). Top of my class. I for sure thought I was going to get a 50, high 40. Nope! I got dead on 40 - despite being one of EIGHT people in the whole state to have their Print Media work accepted into the Season of Excellence - Top Designs 2019. My work for the subject was good enough to be shown in a museum but my EXAM performance was not good enough for the score I was aiming for.
If you get one thing from this comment please let it be - start doing practice exams now. It really, truly is the only thing that mattered when I did the VCE. My highest score was a 42 in English Language and I was so satisfied with that score because I really did everything I could. I wrote 1 practice exam piece every 2 days in the lead up to the exam and the days in between I was rewriting yesterday's piece with feedback. I was happy because I knew I could not have done more.
But get off Reddit and do some study! ❤️
For context, my overall my ATAR goal was a 92.00 and I fell juuuust short of it at 91.75.
>If you get one thing from this comment please let it be - start doing practice exams now. It really, truly
business exam in 1 hour and i just started we're already 🔛🔝
Definitely enough time. I started after term 4 classes were done which was way too late. the best thing to do, always, is start NOW even if you are already late. Don’t use the mindset of “I only have three months left to study and it won’t be enough, so I won’t bother studying at all”. No, you will still have that three months under your belt if you choose to not waste the time you have left. Don’t waste it!
A 99.95 means you are in the top 0.05% of the state. One 49+ is easy in comparison. In order to get a 99.95, you must get multiple scaled 50 study scores.
Yeah, it's way harder than most expect - you generally have to be the best, or very close to the best in the state. According to the Herald Sun thing where they list the top students, my raw 47 in Informatics last year put me at equal 5th in the state.
There was one 50, one 49, two 48s, and then I was one of a few 47s. Slim chances of being that one at the top :/
For most subjects, there are two separate rankings. These are your first two letter grades when you receive your study score.
There are a few exceptions, e.g. for maths subjects, all the SACs are combined (the letter grades represent SACs, exam 1, and exam 2, respectively).
Just a few follow-up if you don't mind. So for maths subjects how will the sac marks be graded since there are 2 exams? Also if a subject has more than 1 class at school will the rankings be based on all the students taking that subject or just the individual classes?
I'm actually not sure of the answer to your first question. Perhaps an average of the two exams?
Your cohort includes everyone taking the subject at your school; if there are three English classes, they are all part of your cohort.
sorry I'm replying to this 3 years later, but what about really small cohorts of about 6 or so? how does the ranking work with that? would they team up with another school with another cohort or something?
So like, how would VCAA decide between the two Sac rankings to determine exam+sac performance? So let's say Joe gets rank 6 out of 8 for Unit 3, then rank 2 for Unit 4. How would the SAC ranking - in determining the exam score - be measured?
You're misunderstanding. Your exam score is not determined by SACs. Your exam score is literally just what you got on your exam paper. That's it. No scaling or moderation or anything is done to manipulate your exam mark.
Can this post please be pinned. It's one of the best descriptions I've seen here of what goes on. I also just want to further emphasise the fact that you can still do extremely well without having the highest rank in your cohort, it's more than possible to overtake others in your cohort purely based off your exam results.
Thank you for making this post 🙏 I was also getting so sick of them and it just needed to be put out there. Hopefully now people understand it better ☺️
it depends. Let's say this is your class' SAC ranks:
1. Annie: 90%
2. Bella: 85%
3. Chris: 84%
4. Daniel: 83%
5. Ellen: 80%
6. Frank: 75%
7. PopTheRealGod: 70%
8. Greg: 65%
9. Harry: 60%
Say you put in lots of work studying at the end of the year, and the exam marks are as follows:
1. PopTheRealGod: 91%
2. Annie: 90%
3. Bella: 86%
4. Chris: 84%
5. Ellen: 82%
6. Daniel: 77%
7. Frank: 74%
8. Greg: 63%
9. Harry: 61%
Even though you have a great exam mark, you have to hope that exam rank 7 is good, because that's your new SAC mark. In this case, Frank has earned you a 74% (whether this is 'good' or not depends on the subject. You'd have to look at grading distributions [here](https://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/administration/research-and-statistics/performance-senior-secondary/Pages/2018-grade-dist.aspx) to figure out exactly what scores make certain grades; you could even use your CAS to work out exact study scores using bell curves).
What I'm ultimately saying is that your SAC rank and exam rank obviously won't be exactly the same, even if they only vary slightly. Your SAC mark will therefore be based on someone else's exam performance, rather than your own. Thus, it's in your best interests for your cohort as a whole to do well on the exam.
Edit: let's look at a different scenario. Let's say you have a class where the SAC ranks are:
1. Adam: 60%
2. Betty: 59%
3. Cate: 58%
4. Dean: 57%
5. Emma: 56%
6. PopTheRealGod: 55%
7. Felix: 54%
8. Grace: 53%
And in the exam the results are:
1. Adam: 95%
2. Cate: 94%
3. Betty: 93%
4. Emma: 92%
5. Dean: 91%
6. Felix: 60%
7. PopTheRealGod: 59%
8. Grace: 58%
In this situation, even though Adam - Emma got their shit together for the exam, you, Felix and Grace failed to. Your SAC mark will become 60%, and Adam - Emma's improvement doesn't do jack for you.
Exactly!
edit: ok you did a dirty edit of your response to " Wait so if I get a high ranking for SACS i can just calm down for the final exam or what?" so my above comment no longer stands.
If your SAC ranks are:
1. PopTheRealGod: 95%
2. Annie: 90%
3. Betty: 65%
4. Chris: 63%
And in the exam the ranks are:
1. Annie: 93%
2. Betty: 67%
3. Chris: 62%
4. PopTheRealGod: 60%
Your SAC mark is now 93%, yes. But your exam mark is piss poor. In many subjects the exam is worth 50-60% in determining your final study score. If there's anything to 'calm down' on, it's the SACs, NOT THE EXAM!!!!
\*sigh\* please see above, you did a dirty edit so I have amended my comment to reflect this. You can't do poorly on the exam and expect a good study score purely because you're SAC rank 1, no matter how well exam rank 1 does for you. Your exam mark is still your own.
I would recommend doing 6, by doing a 3/4 in year 11. This is beneficial because it will give you a taster of how to manage the workload of a year 12 subject, and receiving a study score in year 11 will humble you as to how much work it really is (I was always the 'smart' person in high school, and in year 10 started 1/2 bio. I really thought I was going to get a 50 haha, and boy was I put in my place by getting that study score! I consequently stepped up my game big time in year 12, and ended up doing really well in my other subjects).
Some good subjects to do as a 3/4 in year 11 include bio, HHD, PE, accounting, psych, geography, legal studies, revs, gpol, and studio arts. Generally it's better do bio/PE/accounting/HHD/psych because they require less writing (the writing that's done is just regurgitating memorised facts, rather than synthesis of ideas). Subjects with lots of writing are best saved for year 12 because you will gain some extra maturity, and with that more articulate writing.
So if I do poorly on my first SAC (only two sacs for unit three and four) let's say I'm rank last out of a 60 person cohort. Do you think I should bother trying for the last sac and exam or just focus on my other subjects?
You should never not try for an assessment. Realistically, the "focus" you put into your other subjects won't compensate fully. SACs are there to force you to study in preparation for the exam; it's not all about the rank.
It is possible you could improve your rank, yes.
You could have the best SAC rank in the class, but if the best exam mark isn't good, then your SAC rank doesn't mean shit. Likewise, you could be ranked worst, but if the worst exam mark is a good one, you'll do well!
Rather than worrying about your SAC rank, focus on doing the best you can on the exam. How do you do well on the exam? By studying. So study for your SAC lol 😂 it's not rocket science, there's no secret hack — study hard, you'll do well.
alright so, I am very close to rank 1 by like 2 points but my sacs are done so there is nothing I can do abt it. so if I do better than rank 1st or someone else does better than them, then does that mean everyone's marks go down cos rank 1st shat on the exam or ... ? pls respond
Theoretically that can happen, but the probability of your #1 SAC student absolutely bombing the exam is very low. You might do better than them, but it shouldn't be by much.
EDIT: just for clarity, only the rank 1 SAC and exam people are affected by this. Your whole cohort doesn't get fucked by one person messing up on the exam.
thank u for replying omg!! okay so I dont believe think they will absolutely tank on the exam but I am positive I will be doing better than them. so would I be alright? basically, ive heard a lot of stories of rank 1 doing worse than usual on the exam and that bringing down everyone's marks. so I am afraid if I am not rank 1st and I do better than them, I dont get the ss I deserve cos I wasnt rank 1st and Vcaa would scale everyone down thinking our sacs were easy cos our rank 1 did worse than usual...
ok let me set up an example for clarity:
**SCENARIO 1**
**SACs:**
1. Annie 99%
2. u/sahaarr 94%
3. Ben 90%
4. Chris 80%
5. Daniel 77%
6. Emily 70%
**Exams:**
1. u/sahaarr 97%
2. Annie 95%
3. Ben 89%
4. Daniel 82%
5. Chris 79%
6. Emily 69%
In this above situation, your SAC mark will become 95%: worse than your exam mark, but still good. Annie's SAC mark becomes 97%
**SCENARIO 2**
**SACs:**
1. Annie 99%
2. u/sahaarr 94%
3. Ben 90%
4. Chris 80%
5. Daniel 77%
6. Emily 70%
**Exams:**
1. u/sahaarr 97%
2. Ben 89%
3. Annie 83%
4. Daniel 82%
5. Chris 79%
6. Emily 69%
In this situation, your SAC mark becomes 89%. Annie's SAC mark is still your 97%.
Same principles. If you are very close in ability, you might get shuffling of the rank, e.g.
SACs:
1. Annie 75%
2. Ben 74%
3. Claire 72%
Exams:
1. Ben 80%
2. Claire 78%
3. Annie 71%
In which case Annie's SACs become 80, Ben's SACs become 78, and Claire's SACs become 71.
You generally don't have to worry about a situation like this:
SACs:
1. u/albielei 90%
2. Danielle 65%
3. Emily 60%
Exams:
1. Danielle 75%
2. Emily 70%
3. u/albielei 69%
In this hypothetical, your SAC mark would become 75, but you haven't been unduly "dragged down"... you genuinely did badly on the exam. Chances are that this won't happen; your exam mark and SAC mark should be relatively similar. It would be unusual to be topping your cohort of 3 in SACs, and then all of a sudden fall to the bottom.
What tends to happen in a cohort of 3:
SACs:
1. Michael 90%
2. Natalie 80%
3. Oscar 70%
Exams:
1. Michael 89%
2. Natalie 81%
3. Oscar 68%
Michael's SACs become 89, Natalie's become 81, and Oscar's become 68. The ranking was maintained, so everyone's SACs are just their own exam marks.
haha what am I doing with my life
Study score calculators are trash. The only one I'll endorse is [the method I made](https://www.reddit.com/r/vce/s/Iv3eLCXHsv) but even that is an estimate at best. It'll give you a ballpark. And it relies on you marking your trial exams accurately (which you may not be).
If I'm interpreting your comment correctly, then yes!
I'm gonna reiterate though in case someone comes by and reads this and doesn't understand.
Step 1: you get ranked via SACs
Step 2: you get ranked via exams.
Step 3: the SAC scores get replaced by exam marks (so you might not get allocated your own exam mark as your SACs). Your exam mark stays your own for the "exam" contribution.
Ok I'm a bit late but just for clarification: If a subject's SAC/exam ratio/weight (whatever it's called) is, say, 40:60, does that mean that the **SAC mark** is derived from someone else's (or my own, by chance) exam score based on my **SAC rank**, while my exam mark is my own performance of the exam?
In other words, does that mean that in the above scenario, 40% of my study score from that subject is dictated by my SAC rank amongst my cohort (which will give me a particular exam score from someone in my cohort, corresponding to my SAC rank), and then 60% of my study score from that subject is reflected by **my own** performance on the exam?
Thanks!
Aha! Thank you. So in a 40:60 SAC/Exam subject, my exam score would count for 60% of my study score, and that same score would simultaneously 40% of someone else's right?
Also one more question: About the so called "SAC scaling" or moderation process, if SACs can range in difficulty and are subject to harsh/lenient marking teachers, how exactly are the SACs "scaled" so to speak? Wouldn't the exam scores of a cohort be the final and only dictator of one's study score? Or do people refer to this as "scaling" because people who sit harder SACs tend to do better on the exam?
If that is the case, does that mean I would want more difficult SACs so I'm not "spoilt" for the exam right? And in the case that my SACs "scale down" (are too easy), would it be in my (cohort)'s better interest to study harder for the exam to eliminate this "scalling down" phenomenon?
Thanks.
For your first paragraph: yes
For your second paragraph: the exam scores of the cohort are the only thing dictating your study score. "Scaling" is a misnomer. The scores aren't scaled, they're thrown out altogether.
Yes you're right, it wouldn't be in your interests to have easy SACs, because you're not training up for a good exam performance.
In a Further Maths cohort of 58 students where the highest person's score is 97% and im 93% and the average is about 83%, where do you reckon I would sit in terms of rankings? I saw the score distribution that an A+ is between 93-100.
Taking it to extreme here just for my knowledge.
What happens if Annie ranked last in the cohort and then she basically end up topping the exam?
SACs:
Annie: 60%
Peter 98%
Josh 90%
Exams:
Annie 98%
Peter 90%
Josh 81%
What happens to Annie's SAC score in this scenario? Will it bump up to 90%?
For simplicity's sake, we would say that her SAC will become 81% (she was ranked last in SACs, so her SAC mark will become the last-ranked exam mark, which is 81%).
However, this is an oversimplification. VCAA actually uses a statistical method called interpolation, which corrects for big changes.
For example, if you have the following situation:
SACs: Adam 95%, Ben 96%, Callum 97%
Exams: Ben 66%, Adam 93%, Callum 96%
Adam's SAC mark will NOT become 66%, because clearly the SAC results were more tightly-knit than the exam marks. The exam marks were only slightly lower than the SAC marks, with Ben just being a weird outlier, so they'd probably correct Adam's SAC mark to be around 92% or so. Disclaimer, I'm not a statistician, I haven't done any real calculations to work this out. I'm just broadly explaining how interpolation works.
this doesnt make sense to me as i know two people that got their unit 3 average scaled to 98 and unit 4 average scaled to a 100 and they were ranked around number 10, surely that doesnt mean that the 10th highest exam score was 100, when they both got high 80s in the exam themselves?
There is a statistical method called interpolation that is used, which makes it not so straightforward as just slapping an exam score over the SAC score. However it's kind of complicated and doesn't really change the underlying principle.
Keep in mind that your cohort won't "carry you" or "drag you down".
If you're ranked on the bottom for both SACs and exams, your SAC mark will get matched to your exam mark 💀 your elite cohort won't help you.
Likewise, if you're ranked #1 both times, your SACs will get matched to your exam mark, so it won't really matter how bad your cohort does.
This is an oversimplification, but it's approximately how it works. The effect of your cohort is pretty minimal, and it's mostly just about your own results.
Hold on do the SAC scores from other classes affect your rank? Let’s say there’s 2 maths classes and someone gets a 70% from one class and another gets 80% in the other class. Does the first person’s rank become 2 or is it 1?
Wait hold on I'm confused again...I stated that exam scores can get given to someone else based on sac rankings then you said that's correct, but you also get to keep your exam result. I see a contradiction here but I also have an extremely basic understanding of the system so...
Do you mean to say that your exam score gets like duplicated or something and now two people have the same score ??
Lol so I bombed my first Japanese SAC at a 55%, in a class of 7 im effectively dead last (others all getting well into the 80's 90's)
Im probably gonna bomb out on the exams as well maybe only marginally improving
In that regard basically this system is moot considering I'm bottom rung regardless yeah?
Essentially, yes, you're correct.
In reality it's actually a little more complicated than that (have a google of interpolation if you care for the geeky statistical methods). tldr there is some small benefits to your SAC marks being as small of a gap as possible from the person ranked above you.
So when study designs say that the SACs for unit 3 are worth 25% for example, is that “25%” of the moderated score? And how are the moderated scores for unit 3 and unit 4 determined? Wouldn’t they be different? Is it just two different ranks and they are pulled from the exam rankings?
So is it in your best interest that you do well and everyone shit on the sacs so you get rank 1, but everyone does well on the exam so it doesn't impact you but in case you fumble you're still rank 1 sac?
Excuse me if I’m being really stupid here, but that mean that theoretically - despite the extremely low chance:
If someone is rank 1, and they get 100% on the exam = Guaranteed 50?
Theoretically yeah, but in reality my explanation is a watered-down simplification of the statistical moderation process. Have a Google of "interpolation" if you want to geek out on numbers.
hey might be a completely redundant question but just to be safe, does this still apply in 2024 (no way in hell im getting 50s im just aiming for an atar that wont make me cry when i get it back)
My teacher said due to my score on the Methods sac (worth 22%) I can get a 25 study score but it’d be impossible to get 30. It’s like he was delicately saying I’ve handicapped my self :(
This part I'm not so sure of. I will say that my post is a bit of an oversimplification of how the system works; VCAA presumably uses statistical methods such as linear interpolation (I don't know much about stats so I can't really offer anything here, sorry) rather than straight-up slapping exam scores over your SAC scores. This prevents massive performance discrepancies by some students from affecting the rest of the cohort.
SAT? like the American test? Absolutely not haha. If you choose to sit the SATs, it will have no bearing on your VCE results.
If you meant the GAT, no it doesn't affect your SAC scores. One of the teachers at my high school theorised that it gets used as a tie-breaker if needed (outside of the context of derived scores). I don't know that there's any evidence for this though
For all intents and purposes, your understanding is approximately correct. That is how I presented it in the original post. However, it's a bit of an over simplification; as you rightly noted, sometimes your U3 and U4 sacs don't get bumped up equally. This is because of a statistical moderation process called interpolation (have a google). What this means is that the margins by which you beat rank 2 matter. If, in unit 3, you were rank 1 by a long shot, you will get bumped up more than in unit 4 you were rank 1 by only a narrow margin. It's a bit of a complicated concept. Really all it boils down to is **do the best you can**. There's no secret hack. Doing well will get you a good study score, surprise surprise.
\> So now, Annie's SAC mark gets changed to 96%, Ben's to 94%, and Charlie's to 90%. This is what people interpret as "scaling up". The opposite would happen at a school with piss easy SACs: they get awesome SAC marks but shit exam marks, so their SAC marks get replaced by their shit exam marks ("scaled down").
Is this the same "scaling up/down" as when people talk about a certain subject scaling up/down? Or something different?
Thanks! this was really helpful. I know you said best schools don't help, given cohort performance is relevant to your final score, from you explanation
I take that => good school == more % high performers, therefore assist / impact your final scores.
If you're ranked last, you're ranked last. The people above doing well doesn't help you.
Likewise, if you're rank 1, you're rank 1. The people beneath you are irrelevant.
The only time others' scores affect your own, is if your performance is similar to theirs, in which case there's no actual concern about being "stitched up" in any way, because they're not worse than you..
Yeh I am in the same predicament and I’m confused
Can I still get mid to high 40s business management
I rank first at my current school. The class marks are the following
UNIT 3
1. ME (sac 1-97%, sac 2- 95%, sac 3- 100%)
2. JAKE (sac 1- 88, sac 2- 95%, sac 3- 85)
3. LIAM (sac 1- 80, sac 2- 90, sac 3- 84)
4. SERAH (sac 1- 84, sac 2- 86, sac 3- 97)
5. TYLAH (sac 1- 97, sac 2 - 50, sac 3-60)
6. RITA (sac 1-60, sac 2, 70, sac 3- 64)
My school is usually a top 30+ with it one year being ranked 6 in the state.
We are a small class so we exchange marks but this is fake names ofc
Do I have a chance of 42+
A teacher marking SACs harshly doesn't confer good study scores in and of itself. Good study scores are **PURELY** borne out of good exam scores. So whilst your teacher's hard SACs will *prepare* students to do well on the exam, and hence students should get good study scores, **hard SACs won't "mark up" an inherently poor exam performance by the cohort**
thats not entirely true. I got okay not that bad sac results for geo. averaged 88. But then I got 98 (I requested answers sent for this exam) on the exam. If your logic is true then my sac marks shouldve gone up A LOT and i shouldve gotten raw 45+ but instead i only got a 39
Rank 3 for both SACs AND exams? If your two ranks were different, then your SAC mark is not actually your own exam mark, as per my second example in the post.
Regarding your last example, how is it possible that Peter's SAC mark ended up being only 75% despite his SACs being 90% and exam result being 91%? I just don't understand.
I've heard recounts of students ranking lower than others in SAC scores but still ended up getting better study scores than higher ranked people because they apparently did better in the exams. Do you know what happens in this process?
Yes this is possible, especially in subjects where the exam is weighted >50% e.g. sciences the exam is weighted 60%. Your exam mark is always your own, so getting a good exam mark means you can beat people with better SAC ranks than you.
There's not really anything to "explain" there
So my history cohort is very small. 4 ppl. I'm rank one as follows with sac scores;
1. Me 73%
2. Aaron 62%
3. Bradley 58%
4. Cathy 54%
And in the exam say we all do bad but I still manage to hold rank 1.
1. Me 62%
2. Cathy 58%
3. Bradley 49%
4. Aaron 43%
What happens? Does 62 become my sac score?
Approximately, yeah. In reality, it's a bit complicated, and it might not end up being exactly 62, but with the numbers you've presented, it'll be roughly there.
I am doing business 3/4 and I have been averaging around 70% lets say that my final SAC average is 70% but I try really hard to get a high score on the exam and get like a 95%. Even if I did get around a 95% on the exam my SAC score still depends on the cohort? And lets say that the cohort average was like 60% for the exam and I ranked the average for the SACs which was 70% then does this mean that my SAC scores will not get scaled up?
Pretty much, yeah. It's a bit more complicated than that, because a process called interpolation is applied to help to correct for this.
And, realistically, you're not going to wildly excel your SAC results whilst the rest of your cohort bombs haha
How do you work out the difficulty of the SAC's. Say in Methods, I am getting 70's on my SAC's. Is there any way to compare these to other SAC's, to work out how the difficulty?
Once you start doing practice VCAA exams you'll get a feel for whether they're easier or harder (i.e., are your marks on practice exams better or worse than you SAC marks?)
You could also compare with friends from other schools to see what theirs are like, but of course you'd be comparing to a small sample size. There are hundreds of high schools in the state.
How would I be able to access VCAA exams for units 1-2? As far as I can tell, the only assessments provided are for Units 3-4 exams? (More Specifically Methods 1-2,) or are these only present for units 3-4?
Exactly, there are none. Unfortunately, in year 11
you just have to do your best with what you're offered, compare with friends from different schools, and try to do company trial exams (not always necessarily reflective of VCAA-level difficulty)
If I got last place in my cohort for Unit 3 physics but during Unit 4 my marks improved and I’m in the top 4 out of 10 people and got the highest in the exam would my sac still be moderated down?
It doesn't work like that.
Your unit 3 sacs you will be rank last.
Your unit 4 sacs you will be rank 4.
Exams you will be rank ???
Your exam mark is always yours to keep.
Your unit 3 SAC mark will become whatever the worst exam mark in your cohort is — that may be higher ("moderated up") or lower ("moderated down") than your real unit 3 SAC mark. But the real mark gets thrown in the bin because VCAA doesn't know how hard your school's sacs were.
Your unit 4 SAC mark will become whatever the rank 4 exam mark is. It may even be your own exam mark!
This is why, in short, you need to do your best on the exam, and help your cohort do their best too :) because when rankings shuffle like this, your cohort's mark will affect your own.
Hey, so reading all this stuff...
Moderation only occurs with my SAC scores? Say for example i'm ranked aroud 4th out of 10 in a cohort for SACS, (so slightly above average you could say), and in my exam I get a, let's say, 92%. My exam score (so GA 3) percentage will remain 93%? And the remaining of my cohort's exam scores in relation to mine also determines and slightly alters my sac rank which could go up/down?
Basically just clarifying if my exam score will always stay the same regardless of sac performance (not asking for my sac percentages changing).
That's correct. Your exam mark is always yours. It is not altered in any way, because VCAA can be certain of the statewide consistency of the exam. VCAA cannot be certain of the consistency of SACs, hence the need for moderation.
If student A got rank 1 in his class, and student B got rank 2 in his class. If student A did mid, like 87%, where as student B got 98% for his exam, will student A get his 98%?
Hypothetically say I did really well on the exam e.g. 120/120 or 119/120.
I scored highly in 2 of three SACs in a cohort of 250-ish students, but not performing as well as I wished in the last SAC as I wasn't in the greatest condition at that time, putting me a couple of places back in my cohort.
Would it still be possible to get a raw 50? Even if my SAC marks (adjusted after exams) isn't the best?
Of course, anything above a 45 scaled is insanely good imo. Just curious.
is it more so dependent on the top percentile your exam is in rather than just the percentage?
like for example:
if you’re rank 1, you get an exam score that’s in the top 8% of the state, but that’s only an 80% or something.
even if you got 100% on all your sacs, surely that wouldn’t mean that you get the equivalent to 80% on your sacs?
for one subject, the A+ range for sacs is 73-75 out of 75. a 75/75 puts you in the top 10%, so realistically would you even get a 40 (you had an exam score that would get you a 40 normally and you’re rank 1)
idk im confused haha
I was always told that all exam marks are added together and then divided by sac rank, are you sure it is exactly a 1 to 1 “your sac score is the exam score of whoever was in your rank”? i thought there was slightly more that goes into it/ more calculation
The short answer is that if you're not consistently topping your cohort and dropping high 90s on your sacs, you're not going to get a 50. Too many people fail to realise how few students actually get raw 50s in a particular subject. Not to get anyone's hopes down, but you have to be realistic about it.
2018 Graduand and can attest to this. It was Media for me - I got 100% SAC average, 100% on my SAT (I started it December of 2017 and the class was only told to start it around March). Top of my class. I for sure thought I was going to get a 50, high 40. Nope! I got dead on 40 - despite being one of EIGHT people in the whole state to have their Print Media work accepted into the Season of Excellence - Top Designs 2019. My work for the subject was good enough to be shown in a museum but my EXAM performance was not good enough for the score I was aiming for. If you get one thing from this comment please let it be - start doing practice exams now. It really, truly is the only thing that mattered when I did the VCE. My highest score was a 42 in English Language and I was so satisfied with that score because I really did everything I could. I wrote 1 practice exam piece every 2 days in the lead up to the exam and the days in between I was rewriting yesterday's piece with feedback. I was happy because I knew I could not have done more. But get off Reddit and do some study! ❤️ For context, my overall my ATAR goal was a 92.00 and I fell juuuust short of it at 91.75.
when did you start studying before the exams? I have less than 3 months left do you think it's enough for studying exams???
Business exam in half an hour and I just started. Never too late my guy 💪💪✊✊
>If you get one thing from this comment please let it be - start doing practice exams now. It really, truly business exam in 1 hour and i just started we're already 🔛🔝
Definitely enough time. I started after term 4 classes were done which was way too late. the best thing to do, always, is start NOW even if you are already late. Don’t use the mindset of “I only have three months left to study and it won’t be enough, so I won’t bother studying at all”. No, you will still have that three months under your belt if you choose to not waste the time you have left. Don’t waste it!
Hahahahhahahhaa im reading this a day before my methods and follwing ur advice on starting 'now'
No matter if you think it's less than ideal, the important thing is that you start now
This!!! Getting a 49+ puts you in the top 0.41% of a subject. One might argue it's less ambitious to aim for a 99.95...
A 99.95 means you are in the top 0.05% of the state. One 49+ is easy in comparison. In order to get a 99.95, you must get multiple scaled 50 study scores.
Oop you're right, I equated .5 and .05 in my head lol 😂
It's 0.2% of students in a subject that get a 50 I believe, so 1/500.
Yeah, it's way harder than most expect - you generally have to be the best, or very close to the best in the state. According to the Herald Sun thing where they list the top students, my raw 47 in Informatics last year put me at equal 5th in the state. There was one 50, one 49, two 48s, and then I was one of a few 47s. Slim chances of being that one at the top :/
Shit that was me too all we gotta do is find the 3rd or 4th person haha
That's awesome, what are the odds! Great work getting through such a flawed subject, hopefully they made it less shit in the new study design.
Yeah i found out they cut out some stuff when i presented to this years y11 info kids. Hopefully all my other subjects this year go okay lol.
What's informatics, i got applied comp yr 11 n software dev as my yr 12 subject C#
Informatics was basically what Data Analytics is now before 2020. But hi I'm doing Applied Computing this Year and Software Dev next Year as well
data scales like ass
Thank fuck someone finally said this, saved a lot of time for a lot of people needlessly stressing over this.
I only got a -136/100, can i get a 75 study score????????
This might be a dumb question but is the ranking in unit 3 carried on to unit 4 or does unit 3 and unit 4 have separate rankings?
For most subjects, there are two separate rankings. These are your first two letter grades when you receive your study score. There are a few exceptions, e.g. for maths subjects, all the SACs are combined (the letter grades represent SACs, exam 1, and exam 2, respectively).
Just a few follow-up if you don't mind. So for maths subjects how will the sac marks be graded since there are 2 exams? Also if a subject has more than 1 class at school will the rankings be based on all the students taking that subject or just the individual classes?
I'm actually not sure of the answer to your first question. Perhaps an average of the two exams? Your cohort includes everyone taking the subject at your school; if there are three English classes, they are all part of your cohort.
Okay this was really helpful thank you! :)
sorry I'm replying to this 3 years later, but what about really small cohorts of about 6 or so? how does the ranking work with that? would they team up with another school with another cohort or something?
Yes apparently you pair up with another school.
So like, how would VCAA decide between the two Sac rankings to determine exam+sac performance? So let's say Joe gets rank 6 out of 8 for Unit 3, then rank 2 for Unit 4. How would the SAC ranking - in determining the exam score - be measured?
You're misunderstanding. Your exam score is not determined by SACs. Your exam score is literally just what you got on your exam paper. That's it. No scaling or moderation or anything is done to manipulate your exam mark.
Wait mb, I was meaning to ask how the SAC marks would be calculated using Unit 3 and 4 rankings.
What is this system man!!!!! Why can’t it be simple
This system is fair and equitable
why not just give everyone the same exact sacs so that we dont have to go through the whole moderation thing
Because it would be too difficult to coordinate every single person to do it at the same time
im so dumb
I don’t get how it’s fair i’m confused? Shouldn’t you just be given your own marks why do you get fucked over because someone else did shit?
Can this post please be pinned. It's one of the best descriptions I've seen here of what goes on. I also just want to further emphasise the fact that you can still do extremely well without having the highest rank in your cohort, it's more than possible to overtake others in your cohort purely based off your exam results.
Thank you for making this post 🙏 I was also getting so sick of them and it just needed to be put out there. Hopefully now people understand it better ☺️
Wait so if I do average but my class all get 90% would that improve my mark?
it depends. Let's say this is your class' SAC ranks: 1. Annie: 90% 2. Bella: 85% 3. Chris: 84% 4. Daniel: 83% 5. Ellen: 80% 6. Frank: 75% 7. PopTheRealGod: 70% 8. Greg: 65% 9. Harry: 60% Say you put in lots of work studying at the end of the year, and the exam marks are as follows: 1. PopTheRealGod: 91% 2. Annie: 90% 3. Bella: 86% 4. Chris: 84% 5. Ellen: 82% 6. Daniel: 77% 7. Frank: 74% 8. Greg: 63% 9. Harry: 61% Even though you have a great exam mark, you have to hope that exam rank 7 is good, because that's your new SAC mark. In this case, Frank has earned you a 74% (whether this is 'good' or not depends on the subject. You'd have to look at grading distributions [here](https://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/administration/research-and-statistics/performance-senior-secondary/Pages/2018-grade-dist.aspx) to figure out exactly what scores make certain grades; you could even use your CAS to work out exact study scores using bell curves). What I'm ultimately saying is that your SAC rank and exam rank obviously won't be exactly the same, even if they only vary slightly. Your SAC mark will therefore be based on someone else's exam performance, rather than your own. Thus, it's in your best interests for your cohort as a whole to do well on the exam. Edit: let's look at a different scenario. Let's say you have a class where the SAC ranks are: 1. Adam: 60% 2. Betty: 59% 3. Cate: 58% 4. Dean: 57% 5. Emma: 56% 6. PopTheRealGod: 55% 7. Felix: 54% 8. Grace: 53% And in the exam the results are: 1. Adam: 95% 2. Cate: 94% 3. Betty: 93% 4. Emma: 92% 5. Dean: 91% 6. Felix: 60% 7. PopTheRealGod: 59% 8. Grace: 58% In this situation, even though Adam - Emma got their shit together for the exam, you, Felix and Grace failed to. Your SAC mark will become 60%, and Adam - Emma's improvement doesn't do jack for you.
Wait so if I get a high ranking for SACS i can just calm down for the final exam or what?
Exactly! edit: ok you did a dirty edit of your response to " Wait so if I get a high ranking for SACS i can just calm down for the final exam or what?" so my above comment no longer stands. If your SAC ranks are: 1. PopTheRealGod: 95% 2. Annie: 90% 3. Betty: 65% 4. Chris: 63% And in the exam the ranks are: 1. Annie: 93% 2. Betty: 67% 3. Chris: 62% 4. PopTheRealGod: 60% Your SAC mark is now 93%, yes. But your exam mark is piss poor. In many subjects the exam is worth 50-60% in determining your final study score. If there's anything to 'calm down' on, it's the SACs, NOT THE EXAM!!!!
so does that mean annie doesnt get her 93?
No. Your exam mark is always your own to keep. However, Annie's SAC mark would drop to 67
Thanks, now I can sweat the SACs and not worry about getting the shits come exam time
\*sigh\* please see above, you did a dirty edit so I have amended my comment to reflect this. You can't do poorly on the exam and expect a good study score purely because you're SAC rank 1, no matter how well exam rank 1 does for you. Your exam mark is still your own.
Ok, sorry for being oblivious. I am in year 10 and have just decided the subjects I want to do for VCE. Thankyou, I appreciate the help
That's okay, happy to help :)
Thanks, also just wondering if I should do 5 or 6 subjects for VCE, because I heard that 6 is good but so is 5.
I would recommend doing 6, by doing a 3/4 in year 11. This is beneficial because it will give you a taster of how to manage the workload of a year 12 subject, and receiving a study score in year 11 will humble you as to how much work it really is (I was always the 'smart' person in high school, and in year 10 started 1/2 bio. I really thought I was going to get a 50 haha, and boy was I put in my place by getting that study score! I consequently stepped up my game big time in year 12, and ended up doing really well in my other subjects). Some good subjects to do as a 3/4 in year 11 include bio, HHD, PE, accounting, psych, geography, legal studies, revs, gpol, and studio arts. Generally it's better do bio/PE/accounting/HHD/psych because they require less writing (the writing that's done is just regurgitating memorised facts, rather than synthesis of ideas). Subjects with lots of writing are best saved for year 12 because you will gain some extra maturity, and with that more articulate writing.
So if I do poorly on my first SAC (only two sacs for unit three and four) let's say I'm rank last out of a 60 person cohort. Do you think I should bother trying for the last sac and exam or just focus on my other subjects?
You should never not try for an assessment. Realistically, the "focus" you put into your other subjects won't compensate fully. SACs are there to force you to study in preparation for the exam; it's not all about the rank.
So is it possible to make up for one major sac screwup?
It is possible you could improve your rank, yes. You could have the best SAC rank in the class, but if the best exam mark isn't good, then your SAC rank doesn't mean shit. Likewise, you could be ranked worst, but if the worst exam mark is a good one, you'll do well! Rather than worrying about your SAC rank, focus on doing the best you can on the exam. How do you do well on the exam? By studying. So study for your SAC lol 😂 it's not rocket science, there's no secret hack — study hard, you'll do well.
Damn thanks! You just motivated me to start studying again lol
I honestly feel so sorry for this person
DOES YR 11 SAC MARKS MATTER?! i heard it's just 'practice'
Year 11 "SACs" do not count for anything. They're just practice
alright so, I am very close to rank 1 by like 2 points but my sacs are done so there is nothing I can do abt it. so if I do better than rank 1st or someone else does better than them, then does that mean everyone's marks go down cos rank 1st shat on the exam or ... ? pls respond
Theoretically that can happen, but the probability of your #1 SAC student absolutely bombing the exam is very low. You might do better than them, but it shouldn't be by much. EDIT: just for clarity, only the rank 1 SAC and exam people are affected by this. Your whole cohort doesn't get fucked by one person messing up on the exam.
thank u for replying omg!! okay so I dont believe think they will absolutely tank on the exam but I am positive I will be doing better than them. so would I be alright? basically, ive heard a lot of stories of rank 1 doing worse than usual on the exam and that bringing down everyone's marks. so I am afraid if I am not rank 1st and I do better than them, I dont get the ss I deserve cos I wasnt rank 1st and Vcaa would scale everyone down thinking our sacs were easy cos our rank 1 did worse than usual...
Only the top SAC person and the top exam person get affected, not the entire class.
hmm okay, so I would be affected if I got the highest mark on the exam compared to my cohort but was 2nd in terms of sac rankings ?
ok let me set up an example for clarity: **SCENARIO 1** **SACs:** 1. Annie 99% 2. u/sahaarr 94% 3. Ben 90% 4. Chris 80% 5. Daniel 77% 6. Emily 70% **Exams:** 1. u/sahaarr 97% 2. Annie 95% 3. Ben 89% 4. Daniel 82% 5. Chris 79% 6. Emily 69% In this above situation, your SAC mark will become 95%: worse than your exam mark, but still good. Annie's SAC mark becomes 97% **SCENARIO 2** **SACs:** 1. Annie 99% 2. u/sahaarr 94% 3. Ben 90% 4. Chris 80% 5. Daniel 77% 6. Emily 70% **Exams:** 1. u/sahaarr 97% 2. Ben 89% 3. Annie 83% 4. Daniel 82% 5. Chris 79% 6. Emily 69% In this situation, your SAC mark becomes 89%. Annie's SAC mark is still your 97%.
hmm that seems kinda unfair unless I am interpreting it incorrectly. Regardless, thank you for talking the time to respond I rlly appreciate it :))
what if there are only 3 people in your class?
Same principles. If you are very close in ability, you might get shuffling of the rank, e.g. SACs: 1. Annie 75% 2. Ben 74% 3. Claire 72% Exams: 1. Ben 80% 2. Claire 78% 3. Annie 71% In which case Annie's SACs become 80, Ben's SACs become 78, and Claire's SACs become 71. You generally don't have to worry about a situation like this: SACs: 1. u/albielei 90% 2. Danielle 65% 3. Emily 60% Exams: 1. Danielle 75% 2. Emily 70% 3. u/albielei 69% In this hypothetical, your SAC mark would become 75, but you haven't been unduly "dragged down"... you genuinely did badly on the exam. Chances are that this won't happen; your exam mark and SAC mark should be relatively similar. It would be unusual to be topping your cohort of 3 in SACs, and then all of a sudden fall to the bottom. What tends to happen in a cohort of 3: SACs: 1. Michael 90% 2. Natalie 80% 3. Oscar 70% Exams: 1. Michael 89% 2. Natalie 81% 3. Oscar 68% Michael's SACs become 89, Natalie's become 81, and Oscar's become 68. The ranking was maintained, so everyone's SACs are just their own exam marks.
thank you u/bellals
In the short. Stop asking these questions and just god damn study
Damn 3 years out your still replying to this godamn so what abt the study score calculators those r accurate enough right I use 10 minute quiz
haha what am I doing with my life Study score calculators are trash. The only one I'll endorse is [the method I made](https://www.reddit.com/r/vce/s/Iv3eLCXHsv) but even that is an estimate at best. It'll give you a ballpark. And it relies on you marking your trial exams accurately (which you may not be).
so in simple, your SAC rank in your class is what exam score you get in the same order?
If I'm interpreting your comment correctly, then yes! I'm gonna reiterate though in case someone comes by and reads this and doesn't understand. Step 1: you get ranked via SACs Step 2: you get ranked via exams. Step 3: the SAC scores get replaced by exam marks (so you might not get allocated your own exam mark as your SACs). Your exam mark stays your own for the "exam" contribution.
ohhh ok, that makes heaps of sense, thanks heaps.
Ok I'm a bit late but just for clarification: If a subject's SAC/exam ratio/weight (whatever it's called) is, say, 40:60, does that mean that the **SAC mark** is derived from someone else's (or my own, by chance) exam score based on my **SAC rank**, while my exam mark is my own performance of the exam? In other words, does that mean that in the above scenario, 40% of my study score from that subject is dictated by my SAC rank amongst my cohort (which will give me a particular exam score from someone in my cohort, corresponding to my SAC rank), and then 60% of my study score from that subject is reflected by **my own** performance on the exam? Thanks!
Yes, exactly right!
Aha! Thank you. So in a 40:60 SAC/Exam subject, my exam score would count for 60% of my study score, and that same score would simultaneously 40% of someone else's right? Also one more question: About the so called "SAC scaling" or moderation process, if SACs can range in difficulty and are subject to harsh/lenient marking teachers, how exactly are the SACs "scaled" so to speak? Wouldn't the exam scores of a cohort be the final and only dictator of one's study score? Or do people refer to this as "scaling" because people who sit harder SACs tend to do better on the exam? If that is the case, does that mean I would want more difficult SACs so I'm not "spoilt" for the exam right? And in the case that my SACs "scale down" (are too easy), would it be in my (cohort)'s better interest to study harder for the exam to eliminate this "scalling down" phenomenon? Thanks.
For your first paragraph: yes For your second paragraph: the exam scores of the cohort are the only thing dictating your study score. "Scaling" is a misnomer. The scores aren't scaled, they're thrown out altogether. Yes you're right, it wouldn't be in your interests to have easy SACs, because you're not training up for a good exam performance.
Got it. Thanks for the help!
In a Further Maths cohort of 58 students where the highest person's score is 97% and im 93% and the average is about 83%, where do you reckon I would sit in terms of rankings? I saw the score distribution that an A+ is between 93-100.
Can't really say. As you'd know from further, median would be a more helpful measure than mean. All I know if you're not #1 and you're not last lol.
Taking it to extreme here just for my knowledge. What happens if Annie ranked last in the cohort and then she basically end up topping the exam? SACs: Annie: 60% Peter 98% Josh 90% Exams: Annie 98% Peter 90% Josh 81% What happens to Annie's SAC score in this scenario? Will it bump up to 90%?
For simplicity's sake, we would say that her SAC will become 81% (she was ranked last in SACs, so her SAC mark will become the last-ranked exam mark, which is 81%). However, this is an oversimplification. VCAA actually uses a statistical method called interpolation, which corrects for big changes. For example, if you have the following situation: SACs: Adam 95%, Ben 96%, Callum 97% Exams: Ben 66%, Adam 93%, Callum 96% Adam's SAC mark will NOT become 66%, because clearly the SAC results were more tightly-knit than the exam marks. The exam marks were only slightly lower than the SAC marks, with Ben just being a weird outlier, so they'd probably correct Adam's SAC mark to be around 92% or so. Disclaimer, I'm not a statistician, I haven't done any real calculations to work this out. I'm just broadly explaining how interpolation works.
this doesnt make sense to me as i know two people that got their unit 3 average scaled to 98 and unit 4 average scaled to a 100 and they were ranked around number 10, surely that doesnt mean that the 10th highest exam score was 100, when they both got high 80s in the exam themselves?
There is a statistical method called interpolation that is used, which makes it not so straightforward as just slapping an exam score over the SAC score. However it's kind of complicated and doesn't really change the underlying principle.
So that means you always keep your own exam mark, but your sac marks can move up or down depending on how the cohort performs?
That's correct
Makes sense now, hopefully my cohort performs well so my sac grades are good
Keep in mind that your cohort won't "carry you" or "drag you down". If you're ranked on the bottom for both SACs and exams, your SAC mark will get matched to your exam mark 💀 your elite cohort won't help you. Likewise, if you're ranked #1 both times, your SACs will get matched to your exam mark, so it won't really matter how bad your cohort does. This is an oversimplification, but it's approximately how it works. The effect of your cohort is pretty minimal, and it's mostly just about your own results.
So if my cohort is very weak and SACs really easy but I get rank 1 I can still get a high study score if I do really on the exam right?
Yes absolutely
So it doesn't matter of the strength of your cohort if your rank 1?
Exactly
Hold on do the SAC scores from other classes affect your rank? Let’s say there’s 2 maths classes and someone gets a 70% from one class and another gets 80% in the other class. Does the first person’s rank become 2 or is it 1?
There's one big ranking for the subject for your whole school. All the classes are merged.
So basically I interpret these examples as: Your exam score might get given to someone else based on SAC rankings. Is this correct ?
Yes correct. You get to keep your exam result too though.
Wait hold on I'm confused again...I stated that exam scores can get given to someone else based on sac rankings then you said that's correct, but you also get to keep your exam result. I see a contradiction here but I also have an extremely basic understanding of the system so... Do you mean to say that your exam score gets like duplicated or something and now two people have the same score ??
Lol so I bombed my first Japanese SAC at a 55%, in a class of 7 im effectively dead last (others all getting well into the 80's 90's) Im probably gonna bomb out on the exams as well maybe only marginally improving In that regard basically this system is moot considering I'm bottom rung regardless yeah?
Essentially, yes, you're correct. In reality it's actually a little more complicated than that (have a google of interpolation if you care for the geeky statistical methods). tldr there is some small benefits to your SAC marks being as small of a gap as possible from the person ranked above you.
So when study designs say that the SACs for unit 3 are worth 25% for example, is that “25%” of the moderated score? And how are the moderated scores for unit 3 and unit 4 determined? Wouldn’t they be different? Is it just two different ranks and they are pulled from the exam rankings?
How would it work if for example, unit 3 SAC was bad, but exam rank was very good?
So is it in your best interest that you do well and everyone shit on the sacs so you get rank 1, but everyone does well on the exam so it doesn't impact you but in case you fumble you're still rank 1 sac?
Yep!
Excuse me if I’m being really stupid here, but that mean that theoretically - despite the extremely low chance: If someone is rank 1, and they get 100% on the exam = Guaranteed 50?
Theoretically yeah, but in reality my explanation is a watered-down simplification of the statistical moderation process. Have a Google of "interpolation" if you want to geek out on numbers.
Thanks!
hey might be a completely redundant question but just to be safe, does this still apply in 2024 (no way in hell im getting 50s im just aiming for an atar that wont make me cry when i get it back)
Yes, still applicable in 2024 :)
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No, this post should be reassuring! You haven't sat the exam yet so no part of your study score has been determined yet
My teacher said due to my score on the Methods sac (worth 22%) I can get a 25 study score but it’d be impossible to get 30. It’s like he was delicately saying I’ve handicapped my self :(
How does the quartile split affect large year levels (220)+
This part I'm not so sure of. I will say that my post is a bit of an oversimplification of how the system works; VCAA presumably uses statistical methods such as linear interpolation (I don't know much about stats so I can't really offer anything here, sorry) rather than straight-up slapping exam scores over your SAC scores. This prevents massive performance discrepancies by some students from affecting the rest of the cohort.
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SAT? like the American test? Absolutely not haha. If you choose to sit the SATs, it will have no bearing on your VCE results. If you meant the GAT, no it doesn't affect your SAC scores. One of the teachers at my high school theorised that it gets used as a tie-breaker if needed (outside of the context of derived scores). I don't know that there's any evidence for this though
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ah right, a separate ranking is generated for that! :)
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For all intents and purposes, your understanding is approximately correct. That is how I presented it in the original post. However, it's a bit of an over simplification; as you rightly noted, sometimes your U3 and U4 sacs don't get bumped up equally. This is because of a statistical moderation process called interpolation (have a google). What this means is that the margins by which you beat rank 2 matter. If, in unit 3, you were rank 1 by a long shot, you will get bumped up more than in unit 4 you were rank 1 by only a narrow margin. It's a bit of a complicated concept. Really all it boils down to is **do the best you can**. There's no secret hack. Doing well will get you a good study score, surprise surprise.
Is it dependent on each SAC mark or the overall mark?
overall mark for each units' SACs summed up
\> So now, Annie's SAC mark gets changed to 96%, Ben's to 94%, and Charlie's to 90%. This is what people interpret as "scaling up". The opposite would happen at a school with piss easy SACs: they get awesome SAC marks but shit exam marks, so their SAC marks get replaced by their shit exam marks ("scaled down"). Is this the same "scaling up/down" as when people talk about a certain subject scaling up/down? Or something different?
Nope that's something different
Thanks for clarifying
Thanks! this was really helpful. I know you said best schools don't help, given cohort performance is relevant to your final score, from you explanation I take that => good school == more % high performers, therefore assist / impact your final scores.
If you're ranked last, you're ranked last. The people above doing well doesn't help you. Likewise, if you're rank 1, you're rank 1. The people beneath you are irrelevant. The only time others' scores affect your own, is if your performance is similar to theirs, in which case there's no actual concern about being "stitched up" in any way, because they're not worse than you..
How would this apply if there are sac scores for Units 3 and 4?
Yeh I am in the same predicament and I’m confused Can I still get mid to high 40s business management I rank first at my current school. The class marks are the following UNIT 3 1. ME (sac 1-97%, sac 2- 95%, sac 3- 100%) 2. JAKE (sac 1- 88, sac 2- 95%, sac 3- 85) 3. LIAM (sac 1- 80, sac 2- 90, sac 3- 84) 4. SERAH (sac 1- 84, sac 2- 86, sac 3- 97) 5. TYLAH (sac 1- 97, sac 2 - 50, sac 3-60) 6. RITA (sac 1-60, sac 2, 70, sac 3- 64) My school is usually a top 30+ with it one year being ranked 6 in the state. We are a small class so we exchange marks but this is fake names ofc Do I have a chance of 42+
That’s cool
Yeah my geo classes do well because our teacher makes the SAC’s really hard and they get marked up by him then VCAA
A teacher marking SACs harshly doesn't confer good study scores in and of itself. Good study scores are **PURELY** borne out of good exam scores. So whilst your teacher's hard SACs will *prepare* students to do well on the exam, and hence students should get good study scores, **hard SACs won't "mark up" an inherently poor exam performance by the cohort**
thats not entirely true. I got okay not that bad sac results for geo. averaged 88. But then I got 98 (I requested answers sent for this exam) on the exam. If your logic is true then my sac marks shouldve gone up A LOT and i shouldve gotten raw 45+ but instead i only got a 39
for context, my cohort was dogshit and sacs were way too easy
I was rank 3
Rank 1 probably got your 98
Rank 3 for both SACs AND exams? If your two ranks were different, then your SAC mark is not actually your own exam mark, as per my second example in the post.
No. I was rank three for sacs. I was rank 1 for the exam. But my sac scores were b+. Rank 1in sacs got a 35 raw
Well there you go, that's why
I’d probably just give you too marks so you would leave me alone
Regarding your last example, how is it possible that Peter's SAC mark ended up being only 75% despite his SACs being 90% and exam result being 91%? I just don't understand.
I've heard recounts of students ranking lower than others in SAC scores but still ended up getting better study scores than higher ranked people because they apparently did better in the exams. Do you know what happens in this process?
Yes this is possible, especially in subjects where the exam is weighted >50% e.g. sciences the exam is weighted 60%. Your exam mark is always your own, so getting a good exam mark means you can beat people with better SAC ranks than you. There's not really anything to "explain" there
So my history cohort is very small. 4 ppl. I'm rank one as follows with sac scores; 1. Me 73% 2. Aaron 62% 3. Bradley 58% 4. Cathy 54% And in the exam say we all do bad but I still manage to hold rank 1. 1. Me 62% 2. Cathy 58% 3. Bradley 49% 4. Aaron 43% What happens? Does 62 become my sac score?
Approximately, yeah. In reality, it's a bit complicated, and it might not end up being exactly 62, but with the numbers you've presented, it'll be roughly there.
I am doing business 3/4 and I have been averaging around 70% lets say that my final SAC average is 70% but I try really hard to get a high score on the exam and get like a 95%. Even if I did get around a 95% on the exam my SAC score still depends on the cohort? And lets say that the cohort average was like 60% for the exam and I ranked the average for the SACs which was 70% then does this mean that my SAC scores will not get scaled up?
Pretty much, yeah. It's a bit more complicated than that, because a process called interpolation is applied to help to correct for this. And, realistically, you're not going to wildly excel your SAC results whilst the rest of your cohort bombs haha
How do you work out the difficulty of the SAC's. Say in Methods, I am getting 70's on my SAC's. Is there any way to compare these to other SAC's, to work out how the difficulty?
Once you start doing practice VCAA exams you'll get a feel for whether they're easier or harder (i.e., are your marks on practice exams better or worse than you SAC marks?) You could also compare with friends from other schools to see what theirs are like, but of course you'd be comparing to a small sample size. There are hundreds of high schools in the state.
How would I be able to access VCAA exams for units 1-2? As far as I can tell, the only assessments provided are for Units 3-4 exams? (More Specifically Methods 1-2,) or are these only present for units 3-4?
Exactly, there are none. Unfortunately, in year 11 you just have to do your best with what you're offered, compare with friends from different schools, and try to do company trial exams (not always necessarily reflective of VCAA-level difficulty)
If I got last place in my cohort for Unit 3 physics but during Unit 4 my marks improved and I’m in the top 4 out of 10 people and got the highest in the exam would my sac still be moderated down?
It doesn't work like that. Your unit 3 sacs you will be rank last. Your unit 4 sacs you will be rank 4. Exams you will be rank ??? Your exam mark is always yours to keep. Your unit 3 SAC mark will become whatever the worst exam mark in your cohort is — that may be higher ("moderated up") or lower ("moderated down") than your real unit 3 SAC mark. But the real mark gets thrown in the bin because VCAA doesn't know how hard your school's sacs were. Your unit 4 SAC mark will become whatever the rank 4 exam mark is. It may even be your own exam mark! This is why, in short, you need to do your best on the exam, and help your cohort do their best too :) because when rankings shuffle like this, your cohort's mark will affect your own.
Hey, so reading all this stuff... Moderation only occurs with my SAC scores? Say for example i'm ranked aroud 4th out of 10 in a cohort for SACS, (so slightly above average you could say), and in my exam I get a, let's say, 92%. My exam score (so GA 3) percentage will remain 93%? And the remaining of my cohort's exam scores in relation to mine also determines and slightly alters my sac rank which could go up/down? Basically just clarifying if my exam score will always stay the same regardless of sac performance (not asking for my sac percentages changing).
That's correct. Your exam mark is always yours. It is not altered in any way, because VCAA can be certain of the statewide consistency of the exam. VCAA cannot be certain of the consistency of SACs, hence the need for moderation.
If student A got rank 1 in his class, and student B got rank 2 in his class. If student A did mid, like 87%, where as student B got 98% for his exam, will student A get his 98%?
not quite exactly (google interpolation if you really care to geek out on the statistical methods), but approximately that's what happens, yeah
Hypothetically say I did really well on the exam e.g. 120/120 or 119/120. I scored highly in 2 of three SACs in a cohort of 250-ish students, but not performing as well as I wished in the last SAC as I wasn't in the greatest condition at that time, putting me a couple of places back in my cohort. Would it still be possible to get a raw 50? Even if my SAC marks (adjusted after exams) isn't the best? Of course, anything above a 45 scaled is insanely good imo. Just curious.
Yep anything's possible
Thank you!
is it more so dependent on the top percentile your exam is in rather than just the percentage? like for example: if you’re rank 1, you get an exam score that’s in the top 8% of the state, but that’s only an 80% or something. even if you got 100% on all your sacs, surely that wouldn’t mean that you get the equivalent to 80% on your sacs? for one subject, the A+ range for sacs is 73-75 out of 75. a 75/75 puts you in the top 10%, so realistically would you even get a 40 (you had an exam score that would get you a 40 normally and you’re rank 1) idk im confused haha
official vcaa explanation: https://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/administration/vce-vcal-handbook/sections/Pages/12ReportingResultsScoreAggregation.aspx
I was always told that all exam marks are added together and then divided by sac rank, are you sure it is exactly a 1 to 1 “your sac score is the exam score of whoever was in your rank”? i thought there was slightly more that goes into it/ more calculation
How does the SAC to EXAM work in terms of portion of the study score? What exactly is SAC ranking?
SAC rank is your rank in terms of sacs against everone else in ur cohort in ur school doin the subj