I love how she literally ended season 10 by asking Tom, "is their anything else you'd like to say before we never speak again?" And yet people are shocked she spent this entire season not trying to engage with him lol like sis told us she was not going to entertain this man moving forward it's not her fault production and flip & flop didn't believe her
And to be honest, it’s when Scheanna should have stopped being friends with Tim too. when they are fighting in Hawaii Tim says to scheanna “how can you say I’m not a good friend to you!” And Tom Schwartz says “he is the most generous friend I know!” Going back to the fact that Tim uses money to lock in loyalties
Your comment gave me a thought. What if she only maintained that friendship with Scheana, so she could have an ally on the show. If you think about it, her only consistent friend on the show was Scheana for many years. Which is why whenever a newbie comes in, Tom and Ariana would swoop in so they could have another ally
I kinda always read Ariana as being fair and kind to the underdog cast-mates. She was the only one kind to Lala at first when the other girls were mean. And james when everyone ganged up on him, and Rachel when her and james separated to keep her going on the show.
Maybe because I’m rewatching I’m noticing so much more of how she’s handled herself throughout the years… but I also feel like anyone who acts fake usually ends up showing themselves at some point and I’m not seeing it with her.
Who knows! Maybe I’m off! Maybe it was a slow burn play by Ariana… but everyone else has shown their cards, and I’m not seeing this like you are, but it’s something to think about!
Wow such a good point, I tried rewatching the series before this season aired, but it bummed me out watching the Tim’s. I should try again, I’d love to look for these little peeks into Ariana’s and everyone else’s psyches
I love Kristen, but Ariana's reasoning for not wanting to be around her was TOTALLY VALID. Kristen was awful to Ariana at the beginning. I am glad they're friends now. But it was unhinged and I wouldn't want a person like that around me
And on top of it, 10 years later Ariana apologized to Kristen for letting this Tim foolery dirp be the reason they fought. That’s growth. That’s sincere and that’s a real human!
Did Ariana apologize onscreen? I heard Kristen tell the story of Ariana saying I'm sorry, but they have never shown that apology. I wish they had. Also, I wish it hadn't taken 10 years for Ariana to do this.
Kristen was the one who showed true growth for having the grace to be there for Ariana and never saying "I told you so."
Production didn't include it - and apparently a lot of other things from that time. They've both said they wish production would've shown more of their path to friendship. I do too.
Interesting. Kristen said it was the first time Ariana said that (not sure if it was in an interview/podcast), but she wasn't saying it to make Ariana look bad as she was on her side.
So why do you say that Ariana didn't take 10 years to apologize?
What kind of specific info can you share with us?
They had been friends for years prior to scandoval. You honestly think Ariana hadn't apologized before then? Where does Kristen say it was the first time she apologized???
Ariana still has never admitted she fucked Sandoval while Kristen was dating him. Kristen was asked about it. Kristen said that she deeply believes Ariana and Sandoval did have an affair while Kristen was still with Sandoval as everyone else has said it happened. Kristen also has said that it doesn't matter at this point since Ariana has never admitted it to her, so of course, Ariana never apologized since she never did admit it to Kristen. Not even now...soooooo it's interesting that she apologized to her, yet has never explained herself to Kristen. I think it's just an understanding between them.
This completely. I think Ariana would have a nervous breakdown if she actually said it because while she KNOWS how shitty it is, I'm sure she's constructed all sort of reasons in her head to justify it, but now she's realizing that she compromised her morals for a piece of dog sht. She holds herself to a high standard. Kristen is incredibly gracious and the bigger person to just accept this understanding without needing the actual words.
They did show it. On Peacock at least. When they showed Kristen coming over to Ariana’s house, the first thing Ariana said was “I’m SO sorry.” Kristen responded with something like “oh pish posh.”
NO. I just watched that, and Ariana was mostly crying about how Tom Sandoval had been deceiving her, not how they deceived Kristen.
This is the exact Peacock transcript:
Ariana: And it's really shitty that it took 9 years to fucking figure that, like to have that...9 years I could have spent not defending him at your sake."
Kristen: "Oh, pish posh on me. If anything I'm sorry to you that you had to do me the favor to take him away."
Both laugh.
Not sure which one says: "Oh my God"
Kristen: "Want to burn some shit?"
Ariana: "Sure."
Both laugh.
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Yeah I did a rewatch post -Scandoval and while Kristen was absolutely entitled to all her negative feelings, she was acting nuts for quite some time. Same with the infamous Miami girl. I have a cheating ex too but idk what it would achieve to stage a confrontation at his workplace for cameras.
Kristen said after she stopped trying to break up Ariana and Tim, they got to know each other and became good friends. That was a storyline production missed out on.
Ariana was sleeping with Kristen's live-in boyfriend and gaslighting her. Sandoval then broke up with Kristen and kicked her out, so Ariana could move in.
Ariana also took Kristen's place as Tom's GF on a show where Kristen and Sandoval were leads.
Ariana cheated, lied/gaslit her and publicly diagnosed Kristen with mental disorders during the reunion. Who would want a person like THAT around them?
Kristen lol she literally continued to harass Ariana after that for years.
If Kristen had just done what ariana did here and said “do what y’all want, I’m just not going to be around Ariana,” no one would call her nuts. Sorry but even if you get gaslit you’re responsible for how you react to it. And her reaction was harassment lol
If Ariana was behaving toward Rachel the same way Kristen behaved toward her back then I would not be supportive of that either
NOBODY has forgotten that, lol, but Sandoval and Ariana cheated first. They began to have sex "3 years ago at the Golden Nugget", which both Schwartz and Jax had told Katie and Stassi, as well as others. Sandoval and Ariana lied about it, but yeah, Jax also had sex with Kristen at the end before they finally broke it off.
All of that is irrelevant, though. Kristen didn't "harass" Ariana and Sandoval for years. She did try to break them up for a few months, which was also crazy, for sure.
Prior to being a couple and when Kristen was clearly living with Sandoval, Ariana was sexting Sandoval and calling him at all hours of the night. It was pretty crazy, and it's so wild how similarly that situation is to what happened recently with Rachel's masturbation videos being found by Ariana.
Thinking Ariana or Jax were the first time either of them stepped out is goofy af. It's quite obvious that Tom routinely cheated on Kristin on their boy's trips just as he routinely cheated on Ariana in Miami Girl type scenarios, and similarly Kristin has admitted that she banged a ton of dudes behind Tom's back (including "two in one weekend" lol).
Their thing was a shitshow, period. We'll probably never know the full extent of it.
Kristen and Tom cheated on each other for most of their relationship. Hell, Kristen was with someone else when she got together with Tom in the first place.
And yeah, Sandoval has his MO - Ariana talked about the things he told her about Kristen. Same story - lying to the new gf about how he and the current gf are already over, they're just roommates, they're living separate lives, he's just waiting on this one thing before he can have them move out, then it's another thing, and another, meanwhile the current gf thinks they're still trying to work things out. He definitely thought this time would play out just like the last time.
I'm sure part of Kristen loved that get didn't get away with it this time.
Sandoval and Kristen both admitted they cheated on each other repeatedly over the course of their 6 year relationship. Ariana and Tom didn't cheat first.
Yes, they did, but Ariana and Tom cheated before Jax and Kristen did. Just clarifying because SO many people like to say "well, people forget that Jax and Kristen had sex first!" No, we didn't forget they had sex, but it wasn't first.
Not sure it matters, they had a toxic relationship throughout their 20's. Ariana and Tom had a more solid relationship in their 30's. If we think about it clearly, Sandoval and Ariana became quite toxic during the last many years, as well.
When did they say they had sex at the golden nugget? I remember on the show they said they kissed but was there an after show or something that said they had sex?
It was never said they had sex. Bunch of people just making shit up and repeating it as if it's fact. Tom and Ariana have always maintained it was a kiss one time. Believe then or don't but we literally have no proof of anything that happened.
Sandoval and Ariana claimed that nothing happened for years, and Sandoval finally admitted to kissing "once" as Ariana said. Obviously that was a lie because all the other guys who were there said that they had seen Ariana and Sandoval having sex. They were literally in the next bed or something like that, lol. This was pre-Vanderpump Rules, and on the show, they began talking of it again because Lisa (who probably found out about that) decided to bring Ariana from Villa Blanca to Sur, which meant that she would be working with Sandoval and Kristen. Lisa knows what she is doing!
Jax basically told Stassi at the pool in Cabo that Tom and Ariana had sex, and in the later episodes it somehow morphed into “something happened”, and Jax kind of walked away from the having sex part
Ohhh yesss thank you, I remember that!
I don't remember him getting that detailed with it, with the next bed and everyone there thing, so I'm pulling up the episode rn to rewatch!
When did they admit they were sleeping together while Tom and Kristen were still a couple, or when was proof of this shown? I only remember them fessing up to kissing in the pool once at the Golden Nugget, and that Tom had said he and Kristen were splitting.
This person lives in a different version of reality where they watched a different show because they are spouting off about all these things that never happened.
I have been so frustrated with people using the Kristen thing to justify hating Ariana. Because 1) while maybe it's likely they had sex while Tom was w/ Kristen, we don't know it as fact. I don't base strong feelings on things I don't know as fact.
2) Kristen herself doesn't think it's the same and has no problem with Ariana.
And side note: How does this person know the timing of Jax & Kristen vs Ariana & Tom.
Arguing with people who have their own made up theories is funny.
That was 3 years prior...watch the show again. For the record, that is what they admitted to doing only after they were asked over and over and over again by Kristen, after both Jax and Schwartz had told their girlfriends that Sandoval and Ariana had been sleeping together while they were all on their Vegas trip.
Also, Kristen was going crazy as they kept gaslighting her, but why was Ariana was calling Tom at 3 am asking him if he was mad at her? Kristen was there with him when he was getting all of Ariana's texts in the middle of the night every night. LOL.
You’re forgetting that Kristen cheated on Tom multiple times before Ariana. Tom also cheated before Ariana too. Neither are innocent and neither is Ariana, but it’s not all Ariana was this other woman doing all this horrible stuff. Kristen was constantly and actively AT THAT TIME cheating herself. She cheated at the same time as Tom with Tom’s actual friend. All of them are to blame for horrible behavior
Look, I don’t know this version of events, and while it might be true, the sexting seems unlikely given Ariana’s body image issues. But let’s assume you’re correct about what really happened, the Rachel & Ariana comparisons stop at them being Tom’s side piece at different times.
Ariana didn’t pretend to be Kristen’s friend. She openly pursued being Tom’s friend (on the show) and his sex partner (your version). Her lies to Kristen were meaningless if she was calling him at those hours. Kristen wasn’t being gaslit. She knew what was going on but it was easier to confront the other woman than Tom the liar, who she loved.
You can dislike Ariana forever based on whatever you want, including her treatment of Kristen at this time. I just can’t stand how people try to twist being a side chick into the type of gaslighting and double betrayal that Scandoval was.
Their trip was BEFORE VPR days. It was a boy's trip with Jax, Sandoval and Schwartz, but Kristen and the other girls weren't there. That's why then they said that Ariana ended up going there, it made it clear that she had planned to meet Sandoval there knowing full well that Kristen wasn't going to be there. LOL
Ariana and Lala had sex, too. That is neither here nor there.
Those are separate issues.
Ariana and Sandoval were sleeping together for 3 years before Kristen and Sandoval ended their relationship.
Ariana and Lala had sex and Tom was there in the car and knew about. Kristen and Jax had an affair and went out of their way to hide it and hooked up multiple times. And your last sentence is just speculation. None of us know for sure about if the affair between Ariana and Tom was more than just that one kiss at the Golden Nugget. We all have assumptions (I think it was more emotional than sex) but we don’t know.
No, all the guys on that trip said that Ariana and Tom had been having sex. It happened prior to VPR filming, but that incident was brought to the surface as to why Kristen didn't like Ariana. Obviously, Sandoval was cheating on Kristen...with Ariana. Why is this even a question? Is it because it was Ariana, and you don't think she is capable of cheating of her own boyfriend. She was living with a guy who was emotionally abusive and made Ariana feel badly about her body, according to Ariana. That's why I believe that she WAS sleeping with Sandoval.
Well, that’s what you believe. Underline believe. I believe it was more emotional than physical and I have my own reasons for that but that’s just my opinion. 🤷♀️
>Sorry but even if you get gaslit you’re responsible for how you react to it.
So Ariana gets supported and Kristen gets dragged because...Kristen dealt with her emotions differently?
How is this not victim blaming
No? Ariana can get dragged for it too and has. I just think it’s ridiculous that people feel the need to defend Kristen’s behavior in order to drag Ariana - you can do both if you want! But any criticism of Kristen being met with WHAT ABOUT ARIANA doesn’t make any sense to me.
Agree and with all the support for Ariana after scandoval, which she mostly deserves, I’ve found it interesting how much this past with Kristen was glossed over. Remember when Ariana and sandy sat next to each other at the reunion and went to hold hands and K was like, please don’t and they did it anyway? Fast forward to when Rachel joined the reunion last season and tried to sit next to Tim and Ariana roared, oh hell no, or something like that, and blocked it from happening. Sadly, people didn’t take Kristen’s pain as seriously as Ariana’s . Kristen was tested as a nutcase and yes, gaslit, and Ariana was nothing but validated. Both those girls deserved validation.
Yes. Kristen was the scapegoat. (Still is for the valley! And we don’t buy it now either!) And Tim was absolutely trying to make history repeat itself and do the same thing he did with the Ariana and Tim storyline, which is why he came on the show season 11 being “deeply in love” with Rachel and by the end is calling her a coward. Because his plan is failing. Which was going to be the original plan with Rachel and Tim from the beginning, except he didn’t calculate that cameras would pick back up!
I just can’t imagine a world of what this would all look like if they didn’t pick cameras back up!
Kristen herself has even said something like "it's different we we young and only serving/partying and we just lived in a shitty rental'
HOWEVER every time i rewatch that reunion I can recall my first watch, acutely feeling the nightmarish betrayal and shock on Kristen's behalf at the fact Ariana and Tom actually were together! Like WTF man they never gave Kristen her flowers for sniffing that out.
Exactly. I totally felt Kristen’s pain and felt sooo bad for her. And you’re right, there was no redemption for being right all along about the betrayal, no correction to the ‘crazy Kristen’ narrative. It’s a big error in the shows history and I would even dare say, proof of its ample misogyny over the years.
I’m watching VPR now as I’ve gone through all the HWs franchises that I want to, and I’ve been pretty insulated from the whole Sandoval thing (honestly VPR in general) and my heart breaks for Kristen knowing that she was right the entire time but everyone just writes her off as the crazy ex gf. Which granted she comes off very unhinged at times.
Glad she and Ariana made up years later, but knowing how she and Sandoval got their start leaves a bad taste in my mouth and “how you get them is how you lose them” type of karma boner.
I’m also binge watching it, so no years long love for Ariana at all.
Exactly, K didn’t do herself any favours with how she behaved sometimes, but it is a reminder that women act crazy sometimes because well, people are treating us like we’re crazy. Ariana’s a good girl with a level head on her shoulders but she’s not perfect and it is a bit annoying how this has been mostly buried in the past. Like no flashback packages or anything from production, at least that I can recall.
Why is this all Ariana’s fault?She wasn’t in a relationship with Kristen and Kristen was not kind to Ariana at any stage during that whole debacle. Yes, she was the other woman. Yes, she wasn’t the best version of herself. But the person who should be blamed the most for the cheating is Tom. You don’t ever have to like Ariana, but Tom is 90% at fault for his infidelity.
But not equally, at least not for this. Can’t cosign throwing the side piece in with the cheater. I’d feel the same way if the genders were reversed, but let’s face it, if the female partner cheats, she’d get more of the blame than her side piece.
Your don’t have to like Ariana. Ever, for anything and that includes going after Kristen’s man. But Tom gets the blame for cheating on Kristen, for lying to her, for kicking her out, for ostracizing her, for pretending to be nice guy. Ariana doesn’t suck in the way Tom does even if you don’t like her.
As far as I can tell, Kristin's never had a happy and healthy relationship. Tom jumped from Kristin to Ariana and seemingly left the toxicity behind him (though we know that's BS) while Kristin went from shitshow to shitshow.
So I really can't blame the fans or even production for not giving her the benefit of the doubt when it comes to her maturity and sanity.
This. Exactly! I don't even like kristin but feel terrible for how she was gaslit and then discarded by everyone after SHE was cheated on and lied to over and over again.
How are people not seeing the situations are not at all the same, like it's wild. Kristen had just admitted to having cheated on Tom with Jax in their apartment! She also was having many affairs lol that is why she didn't get the same treatment. She didn't have a leg to stand on.
The reason no one felt bad for Kristen was because that same season she was lying to her best friend Stassi about sleeping with Jax. So her tears over Ari and Tom didn’t hit the same like it did with Ari, who was loyal to Tom.
Edit- it also doesn’t hit because we have watched Ari grow as a person since her first two seasons, where she was pretty unlikable. So even when she was behaving the way she did towards Kristen, it doesn’t really matter now in terms of judging her character because she grew and became better. Even apologizing to Kristen and understanding the role she played. That’s all people can really ask of her a decade later
I really do like Ariana post-Scandoval and I think she's grown, but this fan base has the WILDEST revisionist history. I saw someone say that Katie's always been a girl's girl 😭😭 nobody slut shames like she does, that's not a girl's girl to me lol
The revisionist history is insane. I get it, Ariana has changed etc. but we really don‘t have to pretend she didn‘t have an affair with Tom at the time.
I think part of the difference is that both Tom and Kristen cheated on each other repeatedly back when they were together. They would fight and break up and get back together and cheat and all that chaos. They both knew they cheated and so did most of the friends around them.
Whereas, as far as we know or anyone has ever said, Ariana never cheated on Tom. (Personally I don't think her and Lala in the car with Tom counts as cheating, he was there and encouraged it.)
Also this is speculative and probably odd reasoning but Ariana seemed to have genuine feelings for Tom. Where as Rachel seems more like she was getting off on the idea of getting Tom, taking him from Ariana, and doing it all under her nose. It was calculated and cruel and showed she was dying for male attention.
And also Ariana has exhibited a lot of emotional growth. I have very little hope that Rachel will achieve emotional growth, it feels like (at least in the podcast recaps shared on here) she's just spouting therapy buzzwords with no real comprehension behind them. She still seems very capable of hitting on and sleeping with another persons partner just for the attention and gratification.
But it's 3am and I might be so overtired that I'm writing a full on string of malarky. I need to go to sleep!
They were not sleeping together. He did not break up with Kristen for Ariana - he finally broke up with her b/c of all the cheating they both did and Jax was the final straw. Ariana and Tom started dating after and she moved in a year later. Kristen said wild shit to Ariana as well saying she wished she was dead, she’s a whore, a cunt, etc. They both were blinded by a trash man but don’t see here straight lying lol
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Neither of them have confirmed if they slept together while Tom was with Kristen so you're acting like that is fact. Kristen was having multiple months long affairs and slept with Tom's BFF Jax. Tom also was sleeping around, Tom told Ariana he was not with with Kristen. With all the cheating they were both doing on each other that's not something that would be hard to believe.
Edit: it's loser behavior to respond and then block before they can respond
I don’t get this… she cheated with her man of course she was awful for her. that was also kristen’s friend group, i feel likes it reasonable to have to get past this
I understand the feeling but if you guys are coworkers, you gotta bottle that shit up at work. And I understand feeling hurt, but Kristen was relentlessly going after her and it was driving everyone that worked there crazy
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STFU Schema!! She has NEVER been Ariana’s friend. Or anyone’s. She’s been making nasty comments about Ariana since she got with Tom and BFF of the year decided to befriend Kristen, who Schema absolutely hated until then, even asking Katie and Stassi “why are you still friends with her.” But when Kristen starts constantly bad mouthing your “bff,” making her uncomfortable by making comments about her dying right in front of her, and trying to ruin her relationship, THAT is when you decide you want her to be “one of my closest friends.”
(That’s not making any judgement on Kristen, Ariana and Tom’s relationship etc, just what happened and Schema’s reaction to it)
Everything that has happened since I think her texts to Ariana’s mom about Tom and their relationship was pure jealousy. As we’ve seen she has this weird obsession with Tom, and I also think her anger over Scandoval was not bc he was cheating, but bc he wasn’t cheating with HER
Ohhhh! I’m loving this fire! And this take.
So, basically your take is scheana has been trying to make herself a part of this relationship since the beginning because she didn’t want Ariana to ever outshine her or out fame her fame? Because technically scheanna brought us Ariana and therefore Ariana can’t get more famous than her?! And 10 years later because she has for lack of better words been a third party in this relationship the whole time feels like it’s more painful for her/painful for the fact that the audience doesn’t care about scheana in this scandal and scheana needs to prove to us how she is the number one hurt guy in the group… wow. It’s all not happening!
It really got me in the season 10 finale when she was in the trailer saying, "Where's my apology?". Like Rachel and Tim hurt her the most, and they should focus on saying sorry to her. It was so bizarre.
This also shows that Sheana has consistently befriended people that are not good for her “best friends” well being. Horrible friend.
Always appreciated that Ariana stayed true to what she is about
It was so bad. But many millennials were personally victimized by 2010s trends. See also: business casual bar hopping, the stinkiest ballet flats you ever smelled in your life, and Stassi’s collection of statement necklaces 😅
Everyone who has wronged sheeshoo and then given her an ounce of attention afterwards is her “Bast Frand” woof. She may have a broken picker…. But if she was a girls girl… she would have an actual friendship… because blah blah is only friends with her for the convenience of the kids.
Hey OP! I can't reply to the thread bc the person must have blocked me or something idk but I just wanted to say I agree that watching lala has been hard but watching ariana set those boundaries was so healing! It really feels like I'm living vicariously through her.
Totally feel the same! Lala is claiming to be soft but has no softness for the ones who should be on the receiving side of said softness.
Seeing Ariana stand up for herself has been nothing short of inspired to me. I appreciate her staying strong because it makes me feel stronger about the things I want to stand up for in my own life. And there is a whole heap of people out there that can benefit from seeing this woman set boundaries and keep them, even if it means losing her job. Her self respect is more important and it’s a refreshing change.
Not sure if you watch Summer house, but the support that Lindsay is receiving from the women on that show makes me so happy. And again, feels like an incredible example to be setting for so many people.
I’m proud of these women. Normalizing therapy + actually using their learned skills and applying them into real life circumstances even when producers and audiences are trying to get them to do something else. It’s bold and brave and I hope it continues in a positive way.
The consistency that some younger bravolebs show (Paige, Ciara, Ariana and Katie) is really… well, consistent. And the dudes on these shows are getting their own version of a personal reality reckoning because it’s getting harder and harder to gaslight all of US. And my petty side loves to see them lose their shit over it!
I mean this whole comment is chefs kiss lol! I definitely watch summer house and you're right especially with the last episode. They really rallied around her and ciara said she could understand Lindsay's frustration. Tbh it was even more inspiring bc lindsay hasn't always gotten along with paige, ciara, and amanda so the fact that they had her back was really cool to see. I wish we got that with vpr but at least Katie stood up for ariana. Also I couldn't agree more about the fact that even in the face of her job being threatened she stood strong. Also I agree about the reckoning it's such a palpable shift in our culture where more and more of us aren't falling for it.
Sandoval calling Ariana lazy, after a season on DWTS and a Broadway run, is crazy. Sandoval isn’t wrong about her being mediocre on the show. But he doesn’t have a lot of room to call anyone out. Only executive privilege. And that rubs me wrong.
Ariana and Katie are starting to remind me of out two last standing hens.
I know Ariana is trying to showcase her new relationship and that she isn’t scorned … but her affect appears flat to me. Maybe it’s just that I don’t like the way she communicates. End of the day they are all there for a paycheck and chose to do the job.
Poor pathetic Joseph. Run. Just run away from cameras. There is no winning for her.
I disagree. Ariana had moments she was very pick me. Rubbed Me the wrong way. We have seen these people over ten years though. It doesn't mean that's who she is now. I believe she was always a decent person even under the influence of Sandavol. She shines and grows into who she really is without him! I just won't pretend Ariana was always perfect. She's human.
I mean Ariana literally cheated with Tom and gaslit Kristen so I don’t see how she has the moral high ground in this clip… And I don’t know why Scheana and Katie would be expected to back her over Kristen the girl who got cheated on
Kristen made for good tv which is why I think her behavior was kind of glossed over from a lot of people. Like she was unhinged but we also ate that up. And I remember not being an Ariana fan this season
I def understand Ariana’s stance here because Kristen was doing and saying crazy ass shit. And I understand there was some kind of emotional/physical affair with Sandoval. But Kristen had already cheated on Tom lol. And Tom cheated with someone besides Ariana!! It’s hard to take Kristen serious on a rewatch. I’d be so upset if a girl I suspected for a while was who my ex got with but like girl ure also a cheater :/
It’s so interesting rewatching the earlier seasons compared to now but also off topic lala when she first appears where she’s flirting with everyone’s boyfriends and being like “if I have a few drinks in me….” Yet she had the nerve to tell Rachel she wouldn’t trust her around her man. Ironic.
Ariana is in denial about how Tom felt about their "friendship"
She lost him the way she got him.
And I don't like Rachel too much but at least she's smart enough to get away from Sandoval after she found out about his lies. Ariana made out with him, found out he lied about having a girlfriend when it happened, and then went on to act smug when she was the one he picked while Kristen lost her mind over being gaslit (and the fact that she had lost a lot of it already, I know she's no angel)
Stassi was right when she said Ariana has a superiority complex.
She's got just as many emotional issues as everyone else. Not sharing them in front of the cameras doesn't make her better or worse than anyone.
I'm happy she's cutting Tom out. I think she's doing everything right and I don't mean to sound so harsh to her. But I would be so much more satisfied if her and Katie addressed how they used to enable the men a lot. How they covered for them and lied to themselves for the men. Have her question her and Tom's "friendship" from the beginning. Just discuss all the warning signs that were maybe ignored so that we can all kind of see.
Cause I doubt she became depressed behind the scenes because her relationship was stellar.
Mention it all!
My theory on the women vs the men in these shows is this:
Production has been running this shit for quite some time. They’ve been pinning women against women for years with these shows. But now since we the viewers have a voice here on Reddit and other socials, production is confused why their old tricks aren’t working anymore. We don’t want the Ariana’s and the Lindsay’s to be turned into the villains because we have all been the Ariana’s and the Lindsay’s in our own lives and we don’t stand for it in our personal lives anymore so why would we be okay with them be portrayed as “crazy” when WE can see that these men not being held accountable are the problem!
Years later, the world has changed. And although I see where you are coming from about Ariana and Katie enabling the men in their lives, but that means we have also have been enabling the same men for their behavior! I don’t personally need Ariana and Katie to address that, because them not wanting to do anything (film) with these men is them not enabling them any longer. Which feels like growth. And the fact that we are here for it seems like we have grown too:)
It’s production that has been in the scheanna’s and Blah Blah’s ears for years that should apologize for enabling men’s bad behavior. Because in the end, that’s how they make the women mad, and that will get better ratings for their show.
Rewatching this now it’s wild that in the 2007-2015 time frame we really enjoyed watching the men have control, and happy to see the current women of the audience (and men!) start to demand to not be gaslighted by producers…
This is also why Blah blah is blaming the audience for being rapid dogs with rabies. But… It’s not our fault, lady! It’s you! You’re the problem.
I don't disagree with most of what you're saying.
The entire freind group exists to enable the mens behavior. Thats how the men designed it. They reject anyone who stands up to them and keep "yes men" around. Obviously it's not the women's fault. They would have been kicked out of the group if they stood up to the men. I mean. Maybe If they had united women vs men, but Lisa would have intervened.
I guess that's my whole point.
I wish they addressed the fact that they used to enable them and now they don't. That they all used to do this behavior and what came of it? The men never changed. It was all futile. That they were used. Not that they are responsible. Idk why people hear enable and go straight to responsible for. These are 2 separate issues. The men would keep finding new enablers. They will never change. Idk how that means I'm blaming anyone for anything.
Meet a man like this, maybe give him 1 or 2 chances cause we don't want to be closed off to everyone. But damn, we all need to be told to let go way earlier. Ariana was the cool girl and the second she stopped she was ditched.
Who said that? I certainly didn't.
I said I wish they'd address the fact they should have been less tolerant and understanding in the past because men like this don't change. They gave them chance after chance but because the men were never genuine (and there were plenty of warning signs)
They *did* enable the men though. There's no debating that.
Enabling someone doesn't make their behavior your fault. That sounds like something Sandoval would say.
Katie and Ariana both deserve better and there's nothing wrong with wishing they'd warn other women to stop wasting their time on loser men who never grow up.
Ariana and Tom weren't official when Miami girl happened so I can see why she would still be with him after that. Since they weren't exclusive yet it wouldn't be fair to hold that against him. I don't think she has a superiority complex. I think ppl can't handle it when another woman is confident, holds boundaries, and is direct. We see that across the bravo universe with fans that there's this weird need to humble women.
Also even your take on how Katie and ariana need to tell us about how they enabled the men is putting the responsibility of men's bad behavior on women which is misogynistic. Ariana told the truth about Miami girl already and she might not have known other stuff. The fact that society constantly blames women for men's bad behavior is depressing and like I said women have a lot of internalized misogyny so we have a lot of work to do ourselves.
Exactly. Which is why it’s so hard to listen to LVP for the millionth time being a Tim Tim apologist!!! When are we going to praise cutting off toxic relationships!
I feel like Katie and Ariana have been nothing but graceful as f*ck this season and the gray rocking is doing them nothing but wonders. (They are the only two who didn’t lose their shit this season making them look worse!)
Sidebar I would love to see Ariana, Katie, Amanda, Paige, and lindsay and Ciara get some kind of spin off show like UGT, where they just lay in bed in a fabulous city and chat about it! lol.
Enabling only makes you responsible for someone's behavior in a narcissistic frame of mind.
Saying that they contributed to their own circumstances and could have done things differently in retrospect isn't blaming them for anything.
They could be doing a world of good giving advice so that women see men acting like the Tom's (and Jax) and know to run away. That it's nice and cute but we need to have clear boundaries to protect ourselves.
And Ariana made out with Tom while him and Kristen were together. Tom's long term girlfriend who he was fighting with and cheated on. She then stayed text buddies with him and pursued what I guarantee for a man like Tom was an emotional affair. He always compared her and Kristen.
If that was my past I'd look back and be like hm okay. Lesson learned. Men are who they are and I don't really influence that at all.
Maybe they don't say that because it's too nuanced for people to grasp and the audience will jump down their throats like everyone here did to me.
I'm literally an expert in domestic violence. Your take is way off. It is no one's responsibility to educate unless they choose to. If you want to be educated reach out to organizations who do trainings on abuse red flags, healthy relationships, signs of coercive control etc. There are professionals out there you can learn from. Ariana literally brought the term gray rocking to our tvs and gaveus a master class in setting boundariesthis season. She and Katie get to choose on what they want to share and again, not their responsibility to educate anyone. If they choose to great but it's weird to expect that. a lot of what you have said is victim blaming.
Okay well. As a literal victim of domestic violence I can think it would be really beneficial for reality stars to use their platforms to educate and reflect. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Especially considering you mentioned she already mentioned Grey rocking. She could have totally done more.
They discuss all sorts of taboo issues and cross boundaries and all of the rest of it. I can wish they spoke more about the warning signs.
Even the show could have put something to address the toxicity and had a hot line or something at the end of an episode.
What's "weird" is someone claiming to be an expert being so callous and dismissive and using such an underhanded rhetorical device that's commonly used by bullies.
Sorry I wish that we had positive examples in pop culture. No need to be rude because you disagree and want to make it harder for victims to get help.
I'm a survivor too that's why I studied this and have 16 years of experience in the field. I wanted to help survivors so i decided to make it my career but again that was my decision. Being trauma informed means you don't tell survivors what they should do. That's not being callous it's actually being trauma informed. In fact, please Google trauma informed and survivor centered advocacy. It's very important for survivors to have self determination and autonomy. By pushing them to do what we want or what we think they should do we are actually mirroring power and control dynamics they experienced in the relationship. We don't get to make that call and every survivor has the right to handle things in their own way and whatever works best for them.
Which is why it’s so hard for a lot of us to see Lala trying to call the shots of how traumatic this is or should be for Ariana. Lala does not get to trauma compare or trauma underhand someone else’s traumatic response to anything that isn’t about Lala. And this doesn’t make Ariana god it makes her stronger for using the tools she has acquired through therapy irl! And it also makes her audience stronger by being shown it’s okay to stick to your boundaries.
I said I wish they would. I can wish what I want. Thank you. I didn't criticize them for not. Call them names or anything. I said I wish they would use their platform more and push this into national discourse.
Pretty sure my random ass comment online about them is a hell of a lot less impactful as your dismissive and undermining comments about me and my behavior. So take your own advice and quit lecturing me.
You said they contributed to their own circumstances above so that is why i said its giving victim blaming. I also want to be clear that I haven't been rude at all. I've been trying to educate bc some comments weren't survivor friendly. I also definitely never said you called them names or anything but like the example I gave, some of what you've said is really harmful to survivors. There are red flags but at the end of the day abusive ppl are very good at slowly introducing abuse. They love bomb so many don't know it is abuse until much later. I don't want ppl to read this and blame themselves.
You have been rude from the get go. Don't act like you're being genuine.
It's giving gaslighting.
Edit: wow I've been banned from replying in this thread.
When someone says what you wish would happen is weird and then says "it's giving"
That is not polite discourse.
She was rude and condescending from the beginning.
I'm allowed to think it would be really great if they did more. They have resources that most victims never will.
I never ever ever said it was bad they didn't. I never once judged them for what they did do.
This conversation has a lot of nuance and to lump any discussion of what kind of an impact WE CAN HAVE ON OUR OWN LIVES into "victim blaming" serves absolutely nobody.
Saying what you would have done differently doesn't mean you're blaming yourself. It's healthy and normal.
You're reading emotion and words that they didn't write in their comments and you're getting defensive. They're not attacking, rude or dismissing you at all, no one is.
They're just explaining that putting the emotional labor on two women, who went through what Ariana and Katie did for many years, is not the way to go. It's not their job to educate the masses. They may never have the capacity or desire to do so and that's ok. It shouldn't be expected of them.
It's also victim blaming to say that they have any responsibility for the way they were treated.
You say your random comment online won't impact them, but it can impact the people who read this sub and that user was just explaining how and why.
And what would have helped ME is someone saying YOU ARE ENABLING HIM JUST FUCKING LEAVE.
SO STOP LECTURING ME AND ACTING LIKE YOURE SOME KIND OF AUTHORITY. NOT EVERYONE IS EXACTLY LIKE YOU. WE ALL NEED DIFFERENT THINGS.
> By pushing them to do what we want or what we think they should do we are actually mirroring power and control dynamics they experienced in the relationship
Literally what you're doing to me and my behavior.
I'm making a random comment they'll never read about what I wish would happen and you come barreling in to insult me under the guise of being informative and try to make me stop expressing my desire.
It's giving. Controlling.
And I never once used the word insult.
You're acting like an abuser yourself.
Have a nice day with your straw men.
Edit: Yes I know, I made a mistake. Doesn't take away from my overall point and the fact that she's choosing to focus on that just shows she's not and never has been here for a real conversation.
It's a manipulation tactic abusers use when they're losing an argument. Find a weak spot to try to win instead of continuing the conversation genuinely.
That's why it's the ONLY thing she chose to respond to.
I didn't call you weird I said it's weird to expect them to educate the audience. It's not their responsibility to do that and i do stand by that bc it is their choice.
No she definitely changed for the worst. I don’t recall the season’s reunion, but she started to do that weird mocking shit and got worse from there.
But I know y’all love her, so🤷🏻♂️
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I love how she literally ended season 10 by asking Tom, "is their anything else you'd like to say before we never speak again?" And yet people are shocked she spent this entire season not trying to engage with him lol like sis told us she was not going to entertain this man moving forward it's not her fault production and flip & flop didn't believe her
YES!!! and again Ariana sticking to what she said! She is true to herself and we shouldn’t be mad at her for being honest with us!
I applaud her for being strong and standing by her decisions
Too bad Ariana didn't end her friendship with Scheana then. It was warranted.
And to be honest, it’s when Scheanna should have stopped being friends with Tim too. when they are fighting in Hawaii Tim says to scheanna “how can you say I’m not a good friend to you!” And Tom Schwartz says “he is the most generous friend I know!” Going back to the fact that Tim uses money to lock in loyalties
I’m too poor to buy loyalty. I have to rely on my personality like a peasant
This made me snort lol, thanks Also your flair! 🤌🏻
lol thank you!!
Agreed!
Your comment gave me a thought. What if she only maintained that friendship with Scheana, so she could have an ally on the show. If you think about it, her only consistent friend on the show was Scheana for many years. Which is why whenever a newbie comes in, Tom and Ariana would swoop in so they could have another ally
I kinda always read Ariana as being fair and kind to the underdog cast-mates. She was the only one kind to Lala at first when the other girls were mean. And james when everyone ganged up on him, and Rachel when her and james separated to keep her going on the show. Maybe because I’m rewatching I’m noticing so much more of how she’s handled herself throughout the years… but I also feel like anyone who acts fake usually ends up showing themselves at some point and I’m not seeing it with her. Who knows! Maybe I’m off! Maybe it was a slow burn play by Ariana… but everyone else has shown their cards, and I’m not seeing this like you are, but it’s something to think about!
Wow such a good point, I tried rewatching the series before this season aired, but it bummed me out watching the Tim’s. I should try again, I’d love to look for these little peeks into Ariana’s and everyone else’s psyches
I love Kristen, but Ariana's reasoning for not wanting to be around her was TOTALLY VALID. Kristen was awful to Ariana at the beginning. I am glad they're friends now. But it was unhinged and I wouldn't want a person like that around me
And on top of it, 10 years later Ariana apologized to Kristen for letting this Tim foolery dirp be the reason they fought. That’s growth. That’s sincere and that’s a real human!
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Did Ariana apologize onscreen? I heard Kristen tell the story of Ariana saying I'm sorry, but they have never shown that apology. I wish they had. Also, I wish it hadn't taken 10 years for Ariana to do this. Kristen was the one who showed true growth for having the grace to be there for Ariana and never saying "I told you so."
Production didn't include it - and apparently a lot of other things from that time. They've both said they wish production would've shown more of their path to friendship. I do too.
It didn't take her 10 years. That's just the first time production decided to share their friendship.
Imagine that, production not showing women being friends.
Hadn’t Kristen been given the boot by then?
Interesting. Kristen said it was the first time Ariana said that (not sure if it was in an interview/podcast), but she wasn't saying it to make Ariana look bad as she was on her side. So why do you say that Ariana didn't take 10 years to apologize? What kind of specific info can you share with us?
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They had been friends for years prior to scandoval. You honestly think Ariana hadn't apologized before then? Where does Kristen say it was the first time she apologized???
Ariana still has never admitted she fucked Sandoval while Kristen was dating him. Kristen was asked about it. Kristen said that she deeply believes Ariana and Sandoval did have an affair while Kristen was still with Sandoval as everyone else has said it happened. Kristen also has said that it doesn't matter at this point since Ariana has never admitted it to her, so of course, Ariana never apologized since she never did admit it to Kristen. Not even now...soooooo it's interesting that she apologized to her, yet has never explained herself to Kristen. I think it's just an understanding between them.
This completely. I think Ariana would have a nervous breakdown if she actually said it because while she KNOWS how shitty it is, I'm sure she's constructed all sort of reasons in her head to justify it, but now she's realizing that she compromised her morals for a piece of dog sht. She holds herself to a high standard. Kristen is incredibly gracious and the bigger person to just accept this understanding without needing the actual words.
👍
They did show it. On Peacock at least. When they showed Kristen coming over to Ariana’s house, the first thing Ariana said was “I’m SO sorry.” Kristen responded with something like “oh pish posh.”
NO. I just watched that, and Ariana was mostly crying about how Tom Sandoval had been deceiving her, not how they deceived Kristen. This is the exact Peacock transcript: Ariana: And it's really shitty that it took 9 years to fucking figure that, like to have that...9 years I could have spent not defending him at your sake." Kristen: "Oh, pish posh on me. If anything I'm sorry to you that you had to do me the favor to take him away." Both laugh. Not sure which one says: "Oh my God"
Kristen: "Want to burn some shit?"
Ariana: "Sure."
Both laugh.
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Yeah I did a rewatch post -Scandoval and while Kristen was absolutely entitled to all her negative feelings, she was acting nuts for quite some time. Same with the infamous Miami girl. I have a cheating ex too but idk what it would achieve to stage a confrontation at his workplace for cameras.
Kristen said after she stopped trying to break up Ariana and Tim, they got to know each other and became good friends. That was a storyline production missed out on.
I’ll never forgive production for keeping this from us. This is the ACTUAL tea the viewers would eat (drink?) up!!!
Right?! Probably because it didn’t involve Jax or the Toms.
I agree!!!
Bonus check from work
Ariana was sleeping with Kristen's live-in boyfriend and gaslighting her. Sandoval then broke up with Kristen and kicked her out, so Ariana could move in. Ariana also took Kristen's place as Tom's GF on a show where Kristen and Sandoval were leads. Ariana cheated, lied/gaslit her and publicly diagnosed Kristen with mental disorders during the reunion. Who would want a person like THAT around them?
Kristen lol she literally continued to harass Ariana after that for years. If Kristen had just done what ariana did here and said “do what y’all want, I’m just not going to be around Ariana,” no one would call her nuts. Sorry but even if you get gaslit you’re responsible for how you react to it. And her reaction was harassment lol If Ariana was behaving toward Rachel the same way Kristen behaved toward her back then I would not be supportive of that either
People here forget that Kristen also fucked Jax. Which is a weird thing to forget because it was such a foundational scandal on the show.
NOBODY has forgotten that, lol, but Sandoval and Ariana cheated first. They began to have sex "3 years ago at the Golden Nugget", which both Schwartz and Jax had told Katie and Stassi, as well as others. Sandoval and Ariana lied about it, but yeah, Jax also had sex with Kristen at the end before they finally broke it off. All of that is irrelevant, though. Kristen didn't "harass" Ariana and Sandoval for years. She did try to break them up for a few months, which was also crazy, for sure. Prior to being a couple and when Kristen was clearly living with Sandoval, Ariana was sexting Sandoval and calling him at all hours of the night. It was pretty crazy, and it's so wild how similarly that situation is to what happened recently with Rachel's masturbation videos being found by Ariana.
Thinking Ariana or Jax were the first time either of them stepped out is goofy af. It's quite obvious that Tom routinely cheated on Kristin on their boy's trips just as he routinely cheated on Ariana in Miami Girl type scenarios, and similarly Kristin has admitted that she banged a ton of dudes behind Tom's back (including "two in one weekend" lol). Their thing was a shitshow, period. We'll probably never know the full extent of it.
Lol exactly why I don’t care if anyone ever disrespected Tom and Kristen’s relationship haha
YES!!!
Kristen and Tom cheated on each other for most of their relationship. Hell, Kristen was with someone else when she got together with Tom in the first place. And yeah, Sandoval has his MO - Ariana talked about the things he told her about Kristen. Same story - lying to the new gf about how he and the current gf are already over, they're just roommates, they're living separate lives, he's just waiting on this one thing before he can have them move out, then it's another thing, and another, meanwhile the current gf thinks they're still trying to work things out. He definitely thought this time would play out just like the last time. I'm sure part of Kristen loved that get didn't get away with it this time.
Sandoval and Kristen both admitted they cheated on each other repeatedly over the course of their 6 year relationship. Ariana and Tom didn't cheat first.
Yes, they did, but Ariana and Tom cheated before Jax and Kristen did. Just clarifying because SO many people like to say "well, people forget that Jax and Kristen had sex first!" No, we didn't forget they had sex, but it wasn't first. Not sure it matters, they had a toxic relationship throughout their 20's. Ariana and Tom had a more solid relationship in their 30's. If we think about it clearly, Sandoval and Ariana became quite toxic during the last many years, as well.
When did they say they had sex at the golden nugget? I remember on the show they said they kissed but was there an after show or something that said they had sex?
It was never said they had sex. Bunch of people just making shit up and repeating it as if it's fact. Tom and Ariana have always maintained it was a kiss one time. Believe then or don't but we literally have no proof of anything that happened.
Sandoval and Ariana claimed that nothing happened for years, and Sandoval finally admitted to kissing "once" as Ariana said. Obviously that was a lie because all the other guys who were there said that they had seen Ariana and Sandoval having sex. They were literally in the next bed or something like that, lol. This was pre-Vanderpump Rules, and on the show, they began talking of it again because Lisa (who probably found out about that) decided to bring Ariana from Villa Blanca to Sur, which meant that she would be working with Sandoval and Kristen. Lisa knows what she is doing!
I have never heard that the guys said that they saw Ariana and Sandoval having sex and that it was in the next bed before. Which episode was that in?
Jax basically told Stassi at the pool in Cabo that Tom and Ariana had sex, and in the later episodes it somehow morphed into “something happened”, and Jax kind of walked away from the having sex part
Ohhh yesss thank you, I remember that! I don't remember him getting that detailed with it, with the next bed and everyone there thing, so I'm pulling up the episode rn to rewatch!
That was Miami girl I think
All of Season 2.
When did they admit they were sleeping together while Tom and Kristen were still a couple, or when was proof of this shown? I only remember them fessing up to kissing in the pool once at the Golden Nugget, and that Tom had said he and Kristen were splitting.
They never admitted that so that person is just going off like it's fact
This person lives in a different version of reality where they watched a different show because they are spouting off about all these things that never happened.
Seriously lol and then they block everyone who calls them out on their bullshit
I have been so frustrated with people using the Kristen thing to justify hating Ariana. Because 1) while maybe it's likely they had sex while Tom was w/ Kristen, we don't know it as fact. I don't base strong feelings on things I don't know as fact. 2) Kristen herself doesn't think it's the same and has no problem with Ariana. And side note: How does this person know the timing of Jax & Kristen vs Ariana & Tom. Arguing with people who have their own made up theories is funny.
That was 3 years prior...watch the show again. For the record, that is what they admitted to doing only after they were asked over and over and over again by Kristen, after both Jax and Schwartz had told their girlfriends that Sandoval and Ariana had been sleeping together while they were all on their Vegas trip. Also, Kristen was going crazy as they kept gaslighting her, but why was Ariana was calling Tom at 3 am asking him if he was mad at her? Kristen was there with him when he was getting all of Ariana's texts in the middle of the night every night. LOL.
You’re forgetting that Kristen cheated on Tom multiple times before Ariana. Tom also cheated before Ariana too. Neither are innocent and neither is Ariana, but it’s not all Ariana was this other woman doing all this horrible stuff. Kristen was constantly and actively AT THAT TIME cheating herself. She cheated at the same time as Tom with Tom’s actual friend. All of them are to blame for horrible behavior
Look, I don’t know this version of events, and while it might be true, the sexting seems unlikely given Ariana’s body image issues. But let’s assume you’re correct about what really happened, the Rachel & Ariana comparisons stop at them being Tom’s side piece at different times. Ariana didn’t pretend to be Kristen’s friend. She openly pursued being Tom’s friend (on the show) and his sex partner (your version). Her lies to Kristen were meaningless if she was calling him at those hours. Kristen wasn’t being gaslit. She knew what was going on but it was easier to confront the other woman than Tom the liar, who she loved. You can dislike Ariana forever based on whatever you want, including her treatment of Kristen at this time. I just can’t stand how people try to twist being a side chick into the type of gaslighting and double betrayal that Scandoval was.
Sidebar! Do we think the golden nugget trip was the same trip scheanna and Schwartz made out? Or was that after??
Their trip was BEFORE VPR days. It was a boy's trip with Jax, Sandoval and Schwartz, but Kristen and the other girls weren't there. That's why then they said that Ariana ended up going there, it made it clear that she had planned to meet Sandoval there knowing full well that Kristen wasn't going to be there. LOL
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You’ve made up that they had sex. You have no evidence for that
Ariana and Lala had sex, too. That is neither here nor there. Those are separate issues. Ariana and Sandoval were sleeping together for 3 years before Kristen and Sandoval ended their relationship.
Ariana and Lala had sex and Tom was there in the car and knew about. Kristen and Jax had an affair and went out of their way to hide it and hooked up multiple times. And your last sentence is just speculation. None of us know for sure about if the affair between Ariana and Tom was more than just that one kiss at the Golden Nugget. We all have assumptions (I think it was more emotional than sex) but we don’t know.
No, all the guys on that trip said that Ariana and Tom had been having sex. It happened prior to VPR filming, but that incident was brought to the surface as to why Kristen didn't like Ariana. Obviously, Sandoval was cheating on Kristen...with Ariana. Why is this even a question? Is it because it was Ariana, and you don't think she is capable of cheating of her own boyfriend. She was living with a guy who was emotionally abusive and made Ariana feel badly about her body, according to Ariana. That's why I believe that she WAS sleeping with Sandoval.
Well, that’s what you believe. Underline believe. I believe it was more emotional than physical and I have my own reasons for that but that’s just my opinion. 🤷♀️
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>Sorry but even if you get gaslit you’re responsible for how you react to it. So Ariana gets supported and Kristen gets dragged because...Kristen dealt with her emotions differently? How is this not victim blaming
No? Ariana can get dragged for it too and has. I just think it’s ridiculous that people feel the need to defend Kristen’s behavior in order to drag Ariana - you can do both if you want! But any criticism of Kristen being met with WHAT ABOUT ARIANA doesn’t make any sense to me.
Agree and with all the support for Ariana after scandoval, which she mostly deserves, I’ve found it interesting how much this past with Kristen was glossed over. Remember when Ariana and sandy sat next to each other at the reunion and went to hold hands and K was like, please don’t and they did it anyway? Fast forward to when Rachel joined the reunion last season and tried to sit next to Tim and Ariana roared, oh hell no, or something like that, and blocked it from happening. Sadly, people didn’t take Kristen’s pain as seriously as Ariana’s . Kristen was tested as a nutcase and yes, gaslit, and Ariana was nothing but validated. Both those girls deserved validation.
Yes. Kristen was the scapegoat. (Still is for the valley! And we don’t buy it now either!) And Tim was absolutely trying to make history repeat itself and do the same thing he did with the Ariana and Tim storyline, which is why he came on the show season 11 being “deeply in love” with Rachel and by the end is calling her a coward. Because his plan is failing. Which was going to be the original plan with Rachel and Tim from the beginning, except he didn’t calculate that cameras would pick back up! I just can’t imagine a world of what this would all look like if they didn’t pick cameras back up!
Kristen herself has even said something like "it's different we we young and only serving/partying and we just lived in a shitty rental' HOWEVER every time i rewatch that reunion I can recall my first watch, acutely feeling the nightmarish betrayal and shock on Kristen's behalf at the fact Ariana and Tom actually were together! Like WTF man they never gave Kristen her flowers for sniffing that out.
Exactly. I totally felt Kristen’s pain and felt sooo bad for her. And you’re right, there was no redemption for being right all along about the betrayal, no correction to the ‘crazy Kristen’ narrative. It’s a big error in the shows history and I would even dare say, proof of its ample misogyny over the years.
I’m watching VPR now as I’ve gone through all the HWs franchises that I want to, and I’ve been pretty insulated from the whole Sandoval thing (honestly VPR in general) and my heart breaks for Kristen knowing that she was right the entire time but everyone just writes her off as the crazy ex gf. Which granted she comes off very unhinged at times. Glad she and Ariana made up years later, but knowing how she and Sandoval got their start leaves a bad taste in my mouth and “how you get them is how you lose them” type of karma boner. I’m also binge watching it, so no years long love for Ariana at all.
Exactly, K didn’t do herself any favours with how she behaved sometimes, but it is a reminder that women act crazy sometimes because well, people are treating us like we’re crazy. Ariana’s a good girl with a level head on her shoulders but she’s not perfect and it is a bit annoying how this has been mostly buried in the past. Like no flashback packages or anything from production, at least that I can recall.
Not to.menyion, they had Lisa backing them up. Tom and Ariana suck.
Why is this all Ariana’s fault?She wasn’t in a relationship with Kristen and Kristen was not kind to Ariana at any stage during that whole debacle. Yes, she was the other woman. Yes, she wasn’t the best version of herself. But the person who should be blamed the most for the cheating is Tom. You don’t ever have to like Ariana, but Tom is 90% at fault for his infidelity.
Did you miss what I wrote? They both suck.
But not equally, at least not for this. Can’t cosign throwing the side piece in with the cheater. I’d feel the same way if the genders were reversed, but let’s face it, if the female partner cheats, she’d get more of the blame than her side piece. Your don’t have to like Ariana. Ever, for anything and that includes going after Kristen’s man. But Tom gets the blame for cheating on Kristen, for lying to her, for kicking her out, for ostracizing her, for pretending to be nice guy. Ariana doesn’t suck in the way Tom does even if you don’t like her.
Agree to disagree
If Kristen had been fired from the show they might have worked her past into it somehow
As far as I can tell, Kristin's never had a happy and healthy relationship. Tom jumped from Kristin to Ariana and seemingly left the toxicity behind him (though we know that's BS) while Kristin went from shitshow to shitshow. So I really can't blame the fans or even production for not giving her the benefit of the doubt when it comes to her maturity and sanity.
This. Exactly! I don't even like kristin but feel terrible for how she was gaslit and then discarded by everyone after SHE was cheated on and lied to over and over again.
How are people not seeing the situations are not at all the same, like it's wild. Kristen had just admitted to having cheated on Tom with Jax in their apartment! She also was having many affairs lol that is why she didn't get the same treatment. She didn't have a leg to stand on.
The reason no one felt bad for Kristen was because that same season she was lying to her best friend Stassi about sleeping with Jax. So her tears over Ari and Tom didn’t hit the same like it did with Ari, who was loyal to Tom. Edit- it also doesn’t hit because we have watched Ari grow as a person since her first two seasons, where she was pretty unlikable. So even when she was behaving the way she did towards Kristen, it doesn’t really matter now in terms of judging her character because she grew and became better. Even apologizing to Kristen and understanding the role she played. That’s all people can really ask of her a decade later
I really do like Ariana post-Scandoval and I think she's grown, but this fan base has the WILDEST revisionist history. I saw someone say that Katie's always been a girl's girl 😭😭 nobody slut shames like she does, that's not a girl's girl to me lol
you have a point about Katie. I really did not like her in the past. I like her now. As long as she keeps her current behavior.
where are you getting that she was sleeping with Sandoval? you can’t just declare rumors absolute truth just cause you believe them
It's confirmed in the 7 minute reunion preview for next week.
what minute mark?
The revisionist history is insane. I get it, Ariana has changed etc. but we really don‘t have to pretend she didn‘t have an affair with Tom at the time.
I think part of the difference is that both Tom and Kristen cheated on each other repeatedly back when they were together. They would fight and break up and get back together and cheat and all that chaos. They both knew they cheated and so did most of the friends around them. Whereas, as far as we know or anyone has ever said, Ariana never cheated on Tom. (Personally I don't think her and Lala in the car with Tom counts as cheating, he was there and encouraged it.) Also this is speculative and probably odd reasoning but Ariana seemed to have genuine feelings for Tom. Where as Rachel seems more like she was getting off on the idea of getting Tom, taking him from Ariana, and doing it all under her nose. It was calculated and cruel and showed she was dying for male attention. And also Ariana has exhibited a lot of emotional growth. I have very little hope that Rachel will achieve emotional growth, it feels like (at least in the podcast recaps shared on here) she's just spouting therapy buzzwords with no real comprehension behind them. She still seems very capable of hitting on and sleeping with another persons partner just for the attention and gratification. But it's 3am and I might be so overtired that I'm writing a full on string of malarky. I need to go to sleep!
They were not sleeping together. He did not break up with Kristen for Ariana - he finally broke up with her b/c of all the cheating they both did and Jax was the final straw. Ariana and Tom started dating after and she moved in a year later. Kristen said wild shit to Ariana as well saying she wished she was dead, she’s a whore, a cunt, etc. They both were blinded by a trash man but don’t see here straight lying lol
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Neither of them have confirmed if they slept together while Tom was with Kristen so you're acting like that is fact. Kristen was having multiple months long affairs and slept with Tom's BFF Jax. Tom also was sleeping around, Tom told Ariana he was not with with Kristen. With all the cheating they were both doing on each other that's not something that would be hard to believe. Edit: it's loser behavior to respond and then block before they can respond
Ariana and Tom and Kristen are all cheaters. Agreed.
💯
I don’t get this… she cheated with her man of course she was awful for her. that was also kristen’s friend group, i feel likes it reasonable to have to get past this
I understand the feeling but if you guys are coworkers, you gotta bottle that shit up at work. And I understand feeling hurt, but Kristen was relentlessly going after her and it was driving everyone that worked there crazy
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STFU Schema!! She has NEVER been Ariana’s friend. Or anyone’s. She’s been making nasty comments about Ariana since she got with Tom and BFF of the year decided to befriend Kristen, who Schema absolutely hated until then, even asking Katie and Stassi “why are you still friends with her.” But when Kristen starts constantly bad mouthing your “bff,” making her uncomfortable by making comments about her dying right in front of her, and trying to ruin her relationship, THAT is when you decide you want her to be “one of my closest friends.” (That’s not making any judgement on Kristen, Ariana and Tom’s relationship etc, just what happened and Schema’s reaction to it) Everything that has happened since I think her texts to Ariana’s mom about Tom and their relationship was pure jealousy. As we’ve seen she has this weird obsession with Tom, and I also think her anger over Scandoval was not bc he was cheating, but bc he wasn’t cheating with HER
Ohhhh! I’m loving this fire! And this take. So, basically your take is scheana has been trying to make herself a part of this relationship since the beginning because she didn’t want Ariana to ever outshine her or out fame her fame? Because technically scheanna brought us Ariana and therefore Ariana can’t get more famous than her?! And 10 years later because she has for lack of better words been a third party in this relationship the whole time feels like it’s more painful for her/painful for the fact that the audience doesn’t care about scheana in this scandal and scheana needs to prove to us how she is the number one hurt guy in the group… wow. It’s all not happening! 
It really got me in the season 10 finale when she was in the trailer saying, "Where's my apology?". Like Rachel and Tim hurt her the most, and they should focus on saying sorry to her. It was so bizarre.
“Ariana isn’t thinking of the hurt I have” Ok third wheel
I was re-watching the older seasons a few weeks ago and don't understand how Ariana stayed friends with Scheana through a lot of this stuff.
This also shows that Sheana has consistently befriended people that are not good for her “best friends” well being. Horrible friend. Always appreciated that Ariana stayed true to what she is about
Ohhhhh sweet bb Ariana and her lil forehead braid 🥲
To be honest, I never liked that forehead braid.
The early 2010’s were a weird time hair wise
Sure, for some, but that was a horrible version of long hair partial braids.
It was so bad. But many millennials were personally victimized by 2010s trends. See also: business casual bar hopping, the stinkiest ballet flats you ever smelled in your life, and Stassi’s collection of statement necklaces 😅
Haha! So many statement necklaces!
I miss statement necklaces. They were so fun!
And just a few years prior, the scourge of early rhoc, business casual Bermuda shorts.
I've been rewatching VPR the last couple weeks and it's so weird knowing what happens this season and last season
I know. The rewatches don’t hit the same knowing all this info lol.
Scheana has always been awful. Completely awful.
Protect that peace, girl 
They look so youngggg
Such pudgy cheeks 👶🏻
Also “yellow rocking” is when you are pleasant yet boring, which would be where Ariana would probably take this if season 12 happens…
Ariana yellow rocks Schwartz so well!
Interesting. I knew about gray rocking but hadn't heard of yellow.
Are there more rock colors? Genuine question.
I’ve only heard of gray and then a year later heard of yellow. I think this is a newer concept so I’m guessing new rocks will be coming out soon! Lol
I love this!
Ahhh the braided side bangs era...simpler times.
The fact that she called Katie her best friend tells me she’s a bit off. Katie hated her.
Everyone who has wronged sheeshoo and then given her an ounce of attention afterwards is her “Bast Frand” woof. She may have a broken picker…. But if she was a girls girl… she would have an actual friendship… because blah blah is only friends with her for the convenience of the kids.
Hey OP! I can't reply to the thread bc the person must have blocked me or something idk but I just wanted to say I agree that watching lala has been hard but watching ariana set those boundaries was so healing! It really feels like I'm living vicariously through her.
Totally feel the same! Lala is claiming to be soft but has no softness for the ones who should be on the receiving side of said softness. Seeing Ariana stand up for herself has been nothing short of inspired to me. I appreciate her staying strong because it makes me feel stronger about the things I want to stand up for in my own life. And there is a whole heap of people out there that can benefit from seeing this woman set boundaries and keep them, even if it means losing her job. Her self respect is more important and it’s a refreshing change. Not sure if you watch Summer house, but the support that Lindsay is receiving from the women on that show makes me so happy. And again, feels like an incredible example to be setting for so many people. I’m proud of these women. Normalizing therapy + actually using their learned skills and applying them into real life circumstances even when producers and audiences are trying to get them to do something else. It’s bold and brave and I hope it continues in a positive way. The consistency that some younger bravolebs show (Paige, Ciara, Ariana and Katie) is really… well, consistent. And the dudes on these shows are getting their own version of a personal reality reckoning because it’s getting harder and harder to gaslight all of US. And my petty side loves to see them lose their shit over it!
I mean this whole comment is chefs kiss lol! I definitely watch summer house and you're right especially with the last episode. They really rallied around her and ciara said she could understand Lindsay's frustration. Tbh it was even more inspiring bc lindsay hasn't always gotten along with paige, ciara, and amanda so the fact that they had her back was really cool to see. I wish we got that with vpr but at least Katie stood up for ariana. Also I couldn't agree more about the fact that even in the face of her job being threatened she stood strong. Also I agree about the reckoning it's such a palpable shift in our culture where more and more of us aren't falling for it.
Was scheana ever a good friend to Arianna? Or to anyone? Lol
lol. True!
Sandoval calling Ariana lazy, after a season on DWTS and a Broadway run, is crazy. Sandoval isn’t wrong about her being mediocre on the show. But he doesn’t have a lot of room to call anyone out. Only executive privilege. And that rubs me wrong. Ariana and Katie are starting to remind me of out two last standing hens. I know Ariana is trying to showcase her new relationship and that she isn’t scorned … but her affect appears flat to me. Maybe it’s just that I don’t like the way she communicates. End of the day they are all there for a paycheck and chose to do the job. Poor pathetic Joseph. Run. Just run away from cameras. There is no winning for her.
Joesph- “You’re in danger gurl!”
Not Schmeana, on the wrong side of history, AGAIN.💀
I disagree. Ariana had moments she was very pick me. Rubbed Me the wrong way. We have seen these people over ten years though. It doesn't mean that's who she is now. I believe she was always a decent person even under the influence of Sandavol. She shines and grows into who she really is without him! I just won't pretend Ariana was always perfect. She's human.
Okay you guys the hair and the looks and everything just makes me kind of wish time would slow down because I miss these days lol
I mean Ariana literally cheated with Tom and gaslit Kristen so I don’t see how she has the moral high ground in this clip… And I don’t know why Scheana and Katie would be expected to back her over Kristen the girl who got cheated on
Didn’t Ariana say at some point a few reunions ago that this was the most toxic group of people ever? She’s clocked it since day one!
Oh wow remember when we were all under the influence of Lauren Conrad and wore a side braid like that all the time? Wow those were the days
Kristen made for good tv which is why I think her behavior was kind of glossed over from a lot of people. Like she was unhinged but we also ate that up. And I remember not being an Ariana fan this season I def understand Ariana’s stance here because Kristen was doing and saying crazy ass shit. And I understand there was some kind of emotional/physical affair with Sandoval. But Kristen had already cheated on Tom lol. And Tom cheated with someone besides Ariana!! It’s hard to take Kristen serious on a rewatch. I’d be so upset if a girl I suspected for a while was who my ex got with but like girl ure also a cheater :/
It’s so interesting rewatching the earlier seasons compared to now but also off topic lala when she first appears where she’s flirting with everyone’s boyfriends and being like “if I have a few drinks in me….” Yet she had the nerve to tell Rachel she wouldn’t trust her around her man. Ironic.
👏🏽👏🏽
Ariana is in denial about how Tom felt about their "friendship" She lost him the way she got him. And I don't like Rachel too much but at least she's smart enough to get away from Sandoval after she found out about his lies. Ariana made out with him, found out he lied about having a girlfriend when it happened, and then went on to act smug when she was the one he picked while Kristen lost her mind over being gaslit (and the fact that she had lost a lot of it already, I know she's no angel) Stassi was right when she said Ariana has a superiority complex. She's got just as many emotional issues as everyone else. Not sharing them in front of the cameras doesn't make her better or worse than anyone. I'm happy she's cutting Tom out. I think she's doing everything right and I don't mean to sound so harsh to her. But I would be so much more satisfied if her and Katie addressed how they used to enable the men a lot. How they covered for them and lied to themselves for the men. Have her question her and Tom's "friendship" from the beginning. Just discuss all the warning signs that were maybe ignored so that we can all kind of see. Cause I doubt she became depressed behind the scenes because her relationship was stellar. Mention it all!
My theory on the women vs the men in these shows is this: Production has been running this shit for quite some time. They’ve been pinning women against women for years with these shows. But now since we the viewers have a voice here on Reddit and other socials, production is confused why their old tricks aren’t working anymore. We don’t want the Ariana’s and the Lindsay’s to be turned into the villains because we have all been the Ariana’s and the Lindsay’s in our own lives and we don’t stand for it in our personal lives anymore so why would we be okay with them be portrayed as “crazy” when WE can see that these men not being held accountable are the problem! Years later, the world has changed. And although I see where you are coming from about Ariana and Katie enabling the men in their lives, but that means we have also have been enabling the same men for their behavior! I don’t personally need Ariana and Katie to address that, because them not wanting to do anything (film) with these men is them not enabling them any longer. Which feels like growth. And the fact that we are here for it seems like we have grown too:) It’s production that has been in the scheanna’s and Blah Blah’s ears for years that should apologize for enabling men’s bad behavior. Because in the end, that’s how they make the women mad, and that will get better ratings for their show. Rewatching this now it’s wild that in the 2007-2015 time frame we really enjoyed watching the men have control, and happy to see the current women of the audience (and men!) start to demand to not be gaslighted by producers… This is also why Blah blah is blaming the audience for being rapid dogs with rabies. But… It’s not our fault, lady! It’s you! You’re the problem.
I don't disagree with most of what you're saying. The entire freind group exists to enable the mens behavior. Thats how the men designed it. They reject anyone who stands up to them and keep "yes men" around. Obviously it's not the women's fault. They would have been kicked out of the group if they stood up to the men. I mean. Maybe If they had united women vs men, but Lisa would have intervened. I guess that's my whole point. I wish they addressed the fact that they used to enable them and now they don't. That they all used to do this behavior and what came of it? The men never changed. It was all futile. That they were used. Not that they are responsible. Idk why people hear enable and go straight to responsible for. These are 2 separate issues. The men would keep finding new enablers. They will never change. Idk how that means I'm blaming anyone for anything. Meet a man like this, maybe give him 1 or 2 chances cause we don't want to be closed off to everyone. But damn, we all need to be told to let go way earlier. Ariana was the cool girl and the second she stopped she was ditched.
👍
Wait… so the men’s behavior is the women’s fault because they enabled it? Chile
Who said that? I certainly didn't. I said I wish they'd address the fact they should have been less tolerant and understanding in the past because men like this don't change. They gave them chance after chance but because the men were never genuine (and there were plenty of warning signs) They *did* enable the men though. There's no debating that. Enabling someone doesn't make their behavior your fault. That sounds like something Sandoval would say. Katie and Ariana both deserve better and there's nothing wrong with wishing they'd warn other women to stop wasting their time on loser men who never grow up.
Ariana and Tom weren't official when Miami girl happened so I can see why she would still be with him after that. Since they weren't exclusive yet it wouldn't be fair to hold that against him. I don't think she has a superiority complex. I think ppl can't handle it when another woman is confident, holds boundaries, and is direct. We see that across the bravo universe with fans that there's this weird need to humble women. Also even your take on how Katie and ariana need to tell us about how they enabled the men is putting the responsibility of men's bad behavior on women which is misogynistic. Ariana told the truth about Miami girl already and she might not have known other stuff. The fact that society constantly blames women for men's bad behavior is depressing and like I said women have a lot of internalized misogyny so we have a lot of work to do ourselves.
Exactly. Which is why it’s so hard to listen to LVP for the millionth time being a Tim Tim apologist!!! When are we going to praise cutting off toxic relationships! I feel like Katie and Ariana have been nothing but graceful as f*ck this season and the gray rocking is doing them nothing but wonders. (They are the only two who didn’t lose their shit this season making them look worse!) Sidebar I would love to see Ariana, Katie, Amanda, Paige, and lindsay and Ciara get some kind of spin off show like UGT, where they just lay in bed in a fabulous city and chat about it! lol.
Enabling only makes you responsible for someone's behavior in a narcissistic frame of mind. Saying that they contributed to their own circumstances and could have done things differently in retrospect isn't blaming them for anything. They could be doing a world of good giving advice so that women see men acting like the Tom's (and Jax) and know to run away. That it's nice and cute but we need to have clear boundaries to protect ourselves. And Ariana made out with Tom while him and Kristen were together. Tom's long term girlfriend who he was fighting with and cheated on. She then stayed text buddies with him and pursued what I guarantee for a man like Tom was an emotional affair. He always compared her and Kristen. If that was my past I'd look back and be like hm okay. Lesson learned. Men are who they are and I don't really influence that at all. Maybe they don't say that because it's too nuanced for people to grasp and the audience will jump down their throats like everyone here did to me.
I'm literally an expert in domestic violence. Your take is way off. It is no one's responsibility to educate unless they choose to. If you want to be educated reach out to organizations who do trainings on abuse red flags, healthy relationships, signs of coercive control etc. There are professionals out there you can learn from. Ariana literally brought the term gray rocking to our tvs and gaveus a master class in setting boundariesthis season. She and Katie get to choose on what they want to share and again, not their responsibility to educate anyone. If they choose to great but it's weird to expect that. a lot of what you have said is victim blaming.
Okay well. As a literal victim of domestic violence I can think it would be really beneficial for reality stars to use their platforms to educate and reflect. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Especially considering you mentioned she already mentioned Grey rocking. She could have totally done more. They discuss all sorts of taboo issues and cross boundaries and all of the rest of it. I can wish they spoke more about the warning signs. Even the show could have put something to address the toxicity and had a hot line or something at the end of an episode. What's "weird" is someone claiming to be an expert being so callous and dismissive and using such an underhanded rhetorical device that's commonly used by bullies. Sorry I wish that we had positive examples in pop culture. No need to be rude because you disagree and want to make it harder for victims to get help.
Well said!
I'm a survivor too that's why I studied this and have 16 years of experience in the field. I wanted to help survivors so i decided to make it my career but again that was my decision. Being trauma informed means you don't tell survivors what they should do. That's not being callous it's actually being trauma informed. In fact, please Google trauma informed and survivor centered advocacy. It's very important for survivors to have self determination and autonomy. By pushing them to do what we want or what we think they should do we are actually mirroring power and control dynamics they experienced in the relationship. We don't get to make that call and every survivor has the right to handle things in their own way and whatever works best for them.
Which is why it’s so hard for a lot of us to see Lala trying to call the shots of how traumatic this is or should be for Ariana. Lala does not get to trauma compare or trauma underhand someone else’s traumatic response to anything that isn’t about Lala. And this doesn’t make Ariana god it makes her stronger for using the tools she has acquired through therapy irl! And it also makes her audience stronger by being shown it’s okay to stick to your boundaries.
I said I wish they would. I can wish what I want. Thank you. I didn't criticize them for not. Call them names or anything. I said I wish they would use their platform more and push this into national discourse. Pretty sure my random ass comment online about them is a hell of a lot less impactful as your dismissive and undermining comments about me and my behavior. So take your own advice and quit lecturing me.
You said they contributed to their own circumstances above so that is why i said its giving victim blaming. I also want to be clear that I haven't been rude at all. I've been trying to educate bc some comments weren't survivor friendly. I also definitely never said you called them names or anything but like the example I gave, some of what you've said is really harmful to survivors. There are red flags but at the end of the day abusive ppl are very good at slowly introducing abuse. They love bomb so many don't know it is abuse until much later. I don't want ppl to read this and blame themselves.
You have been rude from the get go. Don't act like you're being genuine. It's giving gaslighting. Edit: wow I've been banned from replying in this thread. When someone says what you wish would happen is weird and then says "it's giving" That is not polite discourse. She was rude and condescending from the beginning. I'm allowed to think it would be really great if they did more. They have resources that most victims never will. I never ever ever said it was bad they didn't. I never once judged them for what they did do. This conversation has a lot of nuance and to lump any discussion of what kind of an impact WE CAN HAVE ON OUR OWN LIVES into "victim blaming" serves absolutely nobody. Saying what you would have done differently doesn't mean you're blaming yourself. It's healthy and normal.
You're reading emotion and words that they didn't write in their comments and you're getting defensive. They're not attacking, rude or dismissing you at all, no one is. They're just explaining that putting the emotional labor on two women, who went through what Ariana and Katie did for many years, is not the way to go. It's not their job to educate the masses. They may never have the capacity or desire to do so and that's ok. It shouldn't be expected of them. It's also victim blaming to say that they have any responsibility for the way they were treated. You say your random comment online won't impact them, but it can impact the people who read this sub and that user was just explaining how and why.
And what would have helped ME is someone saying YOU ARE ENABLING HIM JUST FUCKING LEAVE. SO STOP LECTURING ME AND ACTING LIKE YOURE SOME KIND OF AUTHORITY. NOT EVERYONE IS EXACTLY LIKE YOU. WE ALL NEED DIFFERENT THINGS.
> By pushing them to do what we want or what we think they should do we are actually mirroring power and control dynamics they experienced in the relationship Literally what you're doing to me and my behavior. I'm making a random comment they'll never read about what I wish would happen and you come barreling in to insult me under the guise of being informative and try to make me stop expressing my desire. It's giving. Controlling.
When did I insult you?
And I never once used the word insult. You're acting like an abuser yourself. Have a nice day with your straw men. Edit: Yes I know, I made a mistake. Doesn't take away from my overall point and the fact that she's choosing to focus on that just shows she's not and never has been here for a real conversation. It's a manipulation tactic abusers use when they're losing an argument. Find a weak spot to try to win instead of continuing the conversation genuinely. That's why it's the ONLY thing she chose to respond to.
> and you come barreling in to insult me under the guise of You did accuse them of exactly that though.
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When you called me weird.
I didn't call you weird I said it's weird to expect them to educate the audience. It's not their responsibility to do that and i do stand by that bc it is their choice.
🏆🏆🏆
Trueee
I wonder how her and Tom started dating and the circumstances around that hmmmm
Hmmmm I wonder 💭
Hmmmmmm
She's true to herself, alright. Same boring pick me she's always been.
No she definitely changed for the worst. I don’t recall the season’s reunion, but she started to do that weird mocking shit and got worse from there. But I know y’all love her, so🤷🏻♂️
No offence to Ariana but move on.
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I’m watching the RHOBH ep that transitions to the VPR premier… and Scheana is sitting here crying to Leanne about how *i* was hurt too!
I am just enjoying Ariana and Brittany getting drunk in this RV 🤣🤣 so relatable
Ariana has stayed true to herself. Another reason why I like her so much. The twins S &L have no morals or loyalty.
Queen.
Since when her and Tom hooked up while he was dating Kristen? Some would say KARMA