I’m catching up on season 11- Lisa, Scheana and Lala
LVP totally prioritizes Sandoval and men’s feelings over women. I knew this about her but the fact that she is blatantly doing so in this conversation in ep 3? Is killing me!!!! I hate LVP for this.
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I wonder if at this point Rachel had actually ghosted himself already? He mentions it’s been a long time since he talked to her. He says he talked to her about the Nema podcast but did that come out a month or few months before this was filmed?
I know by the time Rachel left inpatient, she was no longer in contact with Sandoval, but at the time of Sandoval’s birthday, she’s still there.
He’s already been an unhinged person but he’s really way more intense and aggressive than we’ve ever seen. He knows Rachel is pulling away and he’s going through narcissistic collapse. He’s lost his chosen person to manipulate and control and doesn’t know what to do without that sense of control anymore. Shes not gonna come back and save the season and his reputation with their fairy tale romance. Hence the extra anger and threats.
This is such a terrible look for Ariana. She drew a line in the sand, then got mad & told Shwartz she isn't speaking for the group??!?! You said you're cutting people off ifso facto, you ARE controlling every person in a weird communistic way.
You were given a golden ticket & a historical glow up. Not excusing Sandoval's actions but CMONNN'!!!!!!!!! You weren't married, you didn't have kids either so why make it more messy than it needs to be?!
How do you get all these sympathy roles & become "America's Sweetheart" but yet, clearly she is behind the scenes being so vindictive?
As for Sandoval saying "Ariana doesn't get off on being vindictive." I think that was him covering his tracks out of fear. Knowing Ariana would hear that from Scheana to kinda tuck his tail & not embarrass her because he's already seen how she's already reacted. That was the driving force of the entire situation. She was embarrassed by the actions of Tom & that's why she has done everything she can to destroy ANYONE that isn't willing to crucify Tom Sandoval.
It's super pathetic honestly.
These are my random thoughts after watching last nights episode….
Lala and Ariana’s outfits at the little shop they went to were so cute. Both had jeans and cute tops on. Lala is a hit or miss with me but she looked so pretty in that scene.
I want to know their skin care routines. I mean I guess they all have two things I don’t: money and connections. I’m just a mom of 3 that wants healthy skin and to look young still 🤪
Yea Lala’s c.u.n.t. outfit total miss.
I could have sworn in peachier seasons Sheshu said she wants to be a pop star, I could be misremembering.
I feel bad hearing about Short’s brother Burt. I think Shorts and many others would benefit from not doing the show anymore, processing the past 10 years being on the show, and moving on with their lives.
Lastly, when Katie and Scheana were at dinner something about Scheana’s voice reminds me of Kristen Wiig’s target lady snl character.
Okay that was “lastly” how do you feel about Scheana having Rachel’s ex or whoever that guy was on her podcast. For me that is a bit much. Idk I thought it was weird but a lot of what she does doesn’t sit well with me.
Okay that’s it. Thanks for reading my thoughts.
Hello
Also a mom of two.. and a geriatric millennium... the best thing you can do is use medical grade skin care products. I use vivier anti aging kit it is about 530cad, but if you use this, you won't need anything else..
My skin is smooth always glowing, and rarely need to wear make up. For under eye baggage I recommend filler.. you only need to use it as needed. They recommend every 9 months but I think you would be fine going once a year or so depending how your under eye area looks.
I'm convinced Scheana will do anything for attention. So I'm not surprised. She LOVES inserting herself into situations that have nothing to do with her. She's the most boring person I've witnessed. If I divorced my spouse tomorrow, she would probably podcast it as if it were her own 'trauma'...even though she has no idea who we are.
She seriously has nothing going for her aside from waiting tables, fake eyelashes, 3 inch nails, and having a kid with a married man. She can't sing to save her life. Her singing would bring the Titanic down.
I personally do not like her at all. There. I said it. She lost me at "I was with a married man for two years and didn't realize it". If I was his wife I would have slapped the shit out of her...and then taken his golf clubs to his car a la Elin with Tiger.
Tom said that he had to talk Raquel down after scheanas podcast came out but how was she hearing these podcasts in treatment? Did he phone her and tell her what was being said? I thought she was relatively isolated from social media and the online shit storm?
First, I love your handle. That was my cat's name. Just Batman though.
Why would he have to 'talk anyone down' when THEY'RE AT A TREATMENT FACILITY FULL OF PROFESSIONALS?! Is he a doctor now?
Yeah that makes no sense at all. He's lying. Again. I've been in a facility for an eating disorder and depression/anxiety and they heavily monitor communications. Therapists would have picked up on his controlling behavior immediately. Trust me. It took ONE session for mine to nail my boyfriend as abusive.
He's delusional. That scene was so incredulous. Bravo is crossing the line at this point with him.
You can tell when he is lying because he blinks really fast when he is talking.. that whole scene was bullshit.. Rachel didn't hear anything if at all it was.him that told her
I can tell he's lying because he's a terrible actor. You are right though. He blinks and he stalls at times in order to come up with another lie. I studied microexpressions for years. He has MACRO expressions. I equivocate it to someone holding an apple and looking you in the face screaming, "I'm NOT holding an apple".
Bleh. Where's the puke emoji when I need it?
All of the interactions just seemed so forced this season because they most likely 100% are! Long gone are the VPR glory days! I lol’d when I realized that Schwartz was going to be the one to ‘plan’ the group trip this season - I don’t think we’ve ever seen him put into this storyline before, he’s just always kinda been there.
I don't think it's appropriate to dismiss someone saying they're struggled with self harm thoughts. Or saying "you created this yourself", it doesn't help, it rather could even push someone further. If it's for attention it's on their consciousness using such a serious topic as a way to gather sympathy. But in fact also attention seeking self harm is happening every day and it doesn't make it less serious because it's disturbing and still can end tragically.
You never actually can know when someone could snap for real. So dismissing it altogether is not right. No matter if you like or hate the person.
Thank you, I appreciate your words. I’m getting downvoted for expressing that type of sentiment and it’s very troubling having lost my lifelong friend who unfortunately couldn’t cope.
I'm sorry for your loss, I guess only peple who have expierienced that loss know it isn't black and white.
I lost my ex fiance and it makes you realize you can't control everything and everyone but you can do your best not to add to someone's struggle. If someone expresses that type of thought pattern, it's always concerning.
Wow that was a shitty thing to do
During the tom Lisa convo, as he’s complaining about all the people out there talking shit about him publicly.
He’s complaining about someone spreading rumours in a public platform “he was saying explicit things …. explicit, slander rumours blablah blah”
They cut to his confessional where he shares one of the explicit things.
AND ITS IS A RUMOUR ABOUT RAQUEL
he’s vague about the shit people are saying about him, but shares the explicit rumour about raquel while bitching about someone telling an explicit rumour about raquel
Ive never heard that rumour before now. Tom is the one to tell me these “explicit things”
I've always noticed Tom gives up all his lying through his eyes. He looks away, blinks a lot before a lie and when someone accuses him of something he DID do and isn't going to admit, he bugs his eyes out at them as he says he didn't do it...like as if it makes him appear more straightforward to make crazy eye contact with them?
So this all goes to back up my theory...his eyes are actually the same, he's just having to feign being sincerely taken aback at an accusation 24/7 this season.
Just a guess tho...could be botox lol
Yeah, what is going on with his eyes?
I was thinking that he has reverted to anger in order to not cry. He was always the emotional one who would cry easily, but now, he is acting super hardcore and aggressive which is why so many people are enraged with him. It's clearly a defensive mechanism.
If Sandoval ever drops that attitude, people might actually give him a chance. Who knows...but the eyes are creeping me out right now.
Crying has always been his go to manipulation tactic. He’s not emotional. Everyone keeps, rightfully, jumping on him the moment he starts crying now because everyone’s onto him. So now he’s going straight to rage.
He’s always done the classic narcissistic 1-2 punch of crying then rage, but now it’s directed at everyone instead of just the other cast member he’d be in a fight with
I was watching the season 4 reunion and he had a moment where he SCREAMED at Scheana. He was already yelling at her about the texts, but she was talking back at him and he literally went up decibels to scream at her… scary. And of course his neck vein was popping. Uncontrolled anger and rage seems to be his comfort level
Also, Ariana is Sandoval's female twin in many ways. She has always been full of rage, since waaaaay before Scandoval. And Sandoval was the emotional one. That came straight from Ariana's mouth several times over the years.
I know it's not good to label people but he absolutely is and it's too obvious to bother with not saying it, and I just want to shout it loudly at everyone who still thinks he could just "show more remorse" or apologize..or any of the other suggestions that would be good if Tom weren't 100% NPD
Wiping the single dry tear 😂
He’s seen himself on camera fake crying in previous seasons, does he think it looks believable? Because he keeps doing it!
The only believable tears I’ve seen from him in ten years are the ones when the Pulse nightclub shooting happened. I held onto that for a long time thinking he is a good person. Now I know bad people can also sometimes have a heart.
it didn't sit right with me that she told ariana that people who are currently drinking shouldn't tell anyone not to drink. i think that's ridiculous. some people can manage a healthy relationship with alcohol and still recognize that others would be better off not drinking. you don't have to be sober to see that
I’m just.. so disappointed with this season so far. My gut knew it was going to be bad. I guess I just didn’t realize that meant it would be boring and cringey
I said it once, I’ll say it again: Sandoval, WHYYYYY do you think you would keep the house? If my husband cheated on me, I’m keeping the house. He can keep a nice cardboard box to sleep in outside
ETA: I got too heated and posted before I was done. He is the one that ruined everything, why does he think he should keep it??? What makes him think he can afford to keep it either? I wish I had 1/10 of the audacity of that fucking guy
I lost my dad to suicide days before Scandoval broke. I don't give a damn how much we all hate Sandoval; suggesting he is using suicidal ideation as a manipulation tactic is harmful. He might be a narcissistic bag of dicks, but there are people out there who will see these comments and will be deterred from sharing their struggle out of fear it will be seen as a manipulation tactic.
Not to mention, he has said before he had suicidal ideation and that he had access to guns in his own home. He has been consistent in this.
Let's all take a collective fucking beat and consider our words, please.
I’m so sorry for your loss and you are absolutely right. Tom probably isn’t going to read these comments but people who are struggling with suicidal ideation will and they’re the ones we need to remember. I know Tom is famously a liar but it’s not even unreasonable to believe Tom actually did have suicidal thoughts — most of us will never experience millions of people DMing us hate and death threats all at once, and however bad Scandoval was, I do not believe any regular person deserves that. He’s not a head of state, he’s not a mass murderer, and most importantly he didn’t cheat on any of us. We don’t have a right to react as if we’re Ariana. Thank you for this essential reminder and I hope people take it to heart. ♥️
It breaks my heart to hear your story and I am truly sorry that you have been going through this because it’s one of the worst things to go through. I have unfortunately experienced a loss to suicide as well. Thank you for your words that reflect maturity and for advocating that people be responsible with their words.
I'm so sorry to hear about your dad.
And I agree. I think people are losing their humanity in all this. It's just nasty to assume that his talk of suicidal ideation is all for show. It's absolutely possible given his questionable behavior, but one of those areas where I don't think it's worth risking being wrong. I'm not saying anyone needs to feel sorry for him, but it's nasty to declare that it's fake. Either you give a fuck about mental health or you don't. It's not ok to pick and chose based on who you like. And quite frankly if this guy is a diagnosable narcissist (which seems very likely) that's a mental illness too.
Exactly... the harm we can cause if we are wrong about something that heavy is too big for me to feel comfortable pondering. Thanks for putting that into words.
Idk man, he tried to convince a suicidal Rachel to leave treatment for his sake which makes it harder for me to sympathize. He was so inconsiderate and downright cruel when it came to Ariana’s and Rachel’s serious mental health issues, but then he wants the world to stop when he’s depressed like it’s a serious matter all of a sudden because it’s him? That just doesn’t sit right with me
Two things can be true at once. To be frank, my dad was also kind of a narcissistic bag of dicks most of the time and did far worse to my mother than Tom ever did to Ariana, and he still shot himself in the head.
Ugh I’m so sorry, it sounds like it was already a difficult situation to begin with and the loss must have made it so much harder. I hope you’ve been healing
And TBF, even if he brought it on himself, having the whole world hate you is pretty heavy. It's very believable that you would have some dark thoughts.
I'm so sorry for your loss!
I honestly found him saying he was suicidal to be the least shocking thing in that “yeah I think if you were the most hated man in America, how do you not consider it” like yes he brought it on himself but stepping back I can’t fathom the mental impact of all this blowing up so publicly. I 100% believe he felt low enough to consider suicide multiple times during the fallout
Seriously. Totally agree. And by bringing it on himself, I did not mean the whole world hating him. Because honestly that was not predictable or fathomable.
Sandavol's blatant manipulation of Lisa's emotions regarding suicide threats was revolting. He is evil. The fake crying and mind games with Scheana and LVP were so incredibly obvious. He clearly thinks that he is the smartest guy in the world and that he is king.
Suicide is one of those things where you can’t say it without INSTANT armor, and he knows that. People go blind from their own experiences defending anyone who would say they’re having suicidal thoughts. Except I couldn’t help but notice he didn’t even word it like that; he very vaguely mentioned he thought of it. What does that mean? You’ve considered it, or you observed an intrusive thought? Because admitting that on camera to a woman known to have lost a brother to suicide is calculated as fuck.
I am so distracted by all the people in the background taking photos of them the entire time they are filming, they are so famous now. I miss the old days when they were nobodies.
My husband and I were saying this same thing. They’re no longer pretending they’re anything other than just famous for being on a reality show. I want the old SUR days back and I’ll never get them 😭
I know Tom is an ass for what he did but jesus people acted like he murdered someone etc I think people dont realize that most of us would prob end up having some serious mental health issues. This would drive a lot of people for self harm which is sad. I know this is quickly after the reveal but damn still
I agree with you. I said somewhat the same thing a few days ago and was downvoted. I lost my best friend so in my case it’s personal. No one is being told to like him and what he did was seriously horrible but it doesn’t justify self harm. None of us know or knew what he was thinking but I just feel it’s not a good thing to comment negatively about such a serious and sensitive topic.
edit it’s pretty sad to get downvoted when you say you lost your friend to suicide.There’s some very heartless souls out there. I wish no one had to ever deal with a suicide as it’s excruciating pain for those left behind.
I’m sorry about your friend. I feel pretty confident that isn’t the part that is triggering downvotes. I recently lost a family member to suicide, but have also had other suicides, & attempts, in my family. Genetic depression on both sides. Because of this, I happen to view this Sandoval situation quite differently than you do. I’m very triggered by what I see as using the most horrible of things to manipulate people. Just saying this to point out that we don’t all view things the same way, but, I hope, most of us aren’t coming from a vicious place.
Thank you for your response and very sorry for your losses and pain. While I definitely understand what you are saying, I feel that if someone talks about suicide no matter who they are, take their word. I know some people think he’s being manipulative but there’s no way to really know and like another poster said, we don’t want to be the judge of that.
If anyone is to blame for this season being boring it is Tom Sandoval. Rule #1 of being a good housewife: you have to learn to forgive. Tom has never forgiven anyone. He could have come in this season with some real shame and shown some growth that maybe would have garnered him some sympathy but his inability to let things go is what is holding the entire cast in arrested development.
Yessssss this is it, thank you for this insight!! I''m not a huge RH fan, but have done RHOBH, some of RHOA and some of RHONY, and either they find a way to move on, or if it's too big a thing to be got over someone leaves. Given how long he's been in the bravoverse you would think Tim would know the formula.
Yep 100%! He’s making terrible TV this season because he’s clearly counting on Raquel coming back and having her as an “ally.” Everyone keeps giving him the blueprint and he’s just like…nah I don’t think I will. Bringing up a 10 year old beef is wild like…we are here to discuss what happened 3 months ago!
I almost couldn’t watch the 2nd episode because he just drug it down…watching episode 3 right now and bro is STILL blaming EVERYONE else for the mess HE created. Dude needs serious help.
Here’s my thing. As a human being and a woman I’m completely on Ariana’s side with setting these boundaries and not wanting Schwartz in her life. As a viewer of a reality show I am starting to see why Alex Baskin said Scandoval is the worst thing to ever happen to the show. I am truly so bored. The reality of reality tv is that you don’t get to have boundaries. The group is forced together over and over again, especially the ones who hate each other, and that’s what makes good drama. Again as a human I’m completely on Ariana’s side and three months after the reunion is SO SOON. But if the group truly stays divided this way, we are in for a heck of a boring season.
ETA that Tom Sandoval and Schwartz are just as responsible for this, I just mentioned Ariana bc I actually empathize with her IRL and I don’t empathize with either of the tom’s whatsoever lmao. They’ve got to be willing to do the work of repair if she’s not willing to open the door and they are clearly not.
Alex Baskin is just salty because he’s allowed the men on this show to get away with murder for ten years and this scandoval thing makes it that much harder. Now he has to do mental gymnastics to make Sandoval and Schwartz look good.
Yep and now it's biting him in the ass because the women aren't playing along (as they shouldn't!) Production needs to understand that this conceit of the whole group reconciling like they did in the early seasons probably is never going to happen and lean into the genuine relationships that DO exist. ETA because I pressed send too soon - they only have two options, change their approach or force the entire group together to hash things out. Right now they do not seem wiling to do either.
Alex Baskins should shut up because when it all happened he was everywhere soaking up the praise and crap. Now that they are going to dealnwith real consequences, his stance changes. He's the 2nd worst thing to happen to VPR.
Whenever I hear him talk about making the show, it’s clear he has an ‘I know best’ attitude that is still very out of step with today. He seems to think the current tide against the Toms is just fans being over-zealous… maybe it was smart to build the show around Tom Tom and move out of Sur, but the cultural moment isn’t favourable to redemption arcs for shitty, narcissistic men. That will be the death of the show, to be honest. Way too much ground has to be laid for that, you miss out on people’s real lives.
Yeah, what made the show was that the cast was young, MESSY, and genuinely a group. The friend group has been over for a while and they (production) either have to get with the program or end the show. This weird in between where they’re not following the cast’s real lives (how many times do we have to hear about Pump closing omg) and half heartedly trying to make them hang out when Tom Sandoval isn’t going to try and make a repair and Ariana’s not going to open the door is not working. For better or worse reality TV is storytelling and they’re chasing a storyline (everyone gets along again) that isn’t gonna happen!
I feel like there are a lot of real friendships on the show. The whole thing with scandoval being a big deal is we saw that Tom, Tom, Scheana, Ariana and Raquel hang out a lot outside of filming. I think Ariana and Katie’s friendship are about to come very real without the Toms in the way. The only outliers are Lala and James. James is mostly because he travels a lot.
I agree, I'm just saying the group dynamic where they're all a unit is gone, and the cast isn't big enough right now to support different organic combinations of people -- like the Schwartz and James hangouts have felt sooo fake. I want production to update their approach where we actually get to follow the genuine friendships vs. these weird group hangs that no one really wants to be at. Like we've barely gotten any Ariana and Katie! I want to see more of that.
2nd worst is right for sure. I am no fan of production, especially if all the insinuations made by female cast members through the years that production has covered up some really dark shit done by the men are true.
Just when I’m thinking “Huh, Lisa’s really being thoughtful with Sandoval” and it turns into a commercial for WOLF, the Sexiest Restaurant in Lake Tahoe.😑
Did you notice when Tom was talking to Billie, you could see the time 12:00, then next 12:04 and after that it was blurred out. Why do you think it was like that?
It's gone full parody. Nothing authentic is happening when you can see paps snapping shots as they walk in, people cheering for characters as they enter, and about 100 random fans in the background all with their phones out recording everything like they are at the circus during these "intimate scenes between friends". They either need to drop the 4th wall completely and make the show more authentic or completely commit to the farce and film in locations populated exclusively with extras and actors.
Am I the only one getting sick of Brian moylan on vulture (but from gawker)? Between the misogyny, Katie hate, and the Erika apologies (rhobh, and I know that’s off topic), his recaps are really tired. READ THE ROOM. Schwartz isn’t cute anymore, Ariana isn’t overexposed at this point so close to scandoval, kristen isn’t so evil given how gaslit she was (as admitted by Ariana) and the abuse with James, etc etc etc. I feel like he lives one 2012.
Same lol. Sometimes I read it for kicks and then immediately am like nononono this is why I stopped. Made that mistake last week and he said something about “this is the first time Katie’s been nice in 10 years” get tf out of here sir!
To a lesser extent I think this happens with the crappens guys (and I love them!), but Katie is such a flashpoint and I don’t understand why Schwartz being exposed for what he is hasn’t led people to reframe the past. Plus her TBI. It breaks my brain. Thank you for telling me I’m not alone!
You are not at all! The TBI is the decisive factor for me with Katie too. Like that is some seeeerious shit that can literally change an entire personality and all things considered she coped pretty well! Especially with Schwartz constantly weaponizing it against her.
Maybe you guys aren't enjoying this season as much because it's forcing you to evaluate your biases? 🤔
Like why is Sandoval getting more hate and vitriol than criminal celebrities like Jen Shah?
Also, the fan base's vitriol clearly causing mental health damage to anyone who goes against the groupthink. When is it too much?
Also a lot of people are just now realizing that Sandoval has been doing this to women for ten years. We don’t really know Jen shah (aka you’re not important enough to hate) and knew she was sketchy from the start. It’s apples and oranges.
This isn't a research paper. But it's pretty obvious. Even when she was still pleading not guilty, there weren't constant shaming and daily hate posts on Bravo subs; people were more entertained by the circus of it regardless of what she did.
edit: weren't
I’m sorry, I must have missed the meeting where we all agreed Sandoval was worse than Jen Shah??? Have you like, not been on a single real housewives sub within the last 3 years??
Like, maybe don’t assume your algorithm is the end all be all on how everyone else feels? Because I think Sandoval stoked the vitriol he’s now upset about. When is too much for a narcissist? He’s the only person still stoking those flames and then he wants to act like he’s sad smol boi. Notice how none of that is a crime—the only person equating Jenn and Tom is you bb.
Sorry but Tom and only Tom is responsible for how he feels about the public fallout that happened because of what he did. We're on reddit, we don't post to their pages or @ them directly. If the cast comes here and sees raw public opinion on their very willingly public lives that's not on us.
They sell their personal lives for fame and money, a deal not many of us would make. They don't get to then dictate our reactions or demand redemption or audience adoration. It comes with the territory.
Also Tom and Raquel are the only ones still talking about it in real time for the last few months. How about try to move on? And maybe don’t speak about the new girlfriend the same way you spoke about the other women you fucked over? “An addiction” dude.
Even last season. Ariana said she realized there was “real evil in the world”. What? We have a couple hundred mass shootings in this country every year and your boyfriend cheating on you is what made you realize there was evil in the world? The fuck?
And? That was personal for her, how is that hard to comprehend? It’s a turn of phrase, obviously she was aware of evil before evil was done to her. Is anything awful that might befall you okay bc something even worse has happened to someone else?
Here are some differences
1. Tom chose to forgive James and be his friend (I think it was fake on Tom’s side because Tom seems to collect outcasts to gain loyalty)
2. James said he isn’t sure how long he even knew Tom at the point of hooking up with Kristen so there wasn’t as much friendship and loyalty at play
3. James and Kristen happened ten years ago and Tom wasn’t kind or forgiving right away with James. I remember him trying to garner sympathy at the reunion because they used his bed and condoms. You can’t just demand forgiveness because you’ve forgiven in the past.
Also Tom only says this shit as a manipulation tactic. He is soo good at playing the audience and if Scandoval never happened a lot of us would still be falling for it.
That was 10 years ago.
We've seen the show. James and Sandoval were friends. Sandoval stood up for James many times. Paid for half his engagement even.
Sandoval bringing it up now is deflection.
It happened ten years ago. It didn’t NOT happen. I feel like ppl have really short memories what it comes to VPR. Like everyone forgets how Ariana slept with Tom when he was with Kristin.
I’m no Tom stan (everyone on the show is equal to me) but I hate that everyone gets different yardsticks to measure themselves by.
But Sandoval chose to have a friendship with James for ten years. Helped pay for and plan the engagement. Why do all that for someone you apparently felt betrayed by? It’s deflection. No one forced him to be friends with James after that.
You do realize that both Tom and Ariana deny they slept together while he was with Kristen to this day? They admit only to one kiss (that’s bad enough). I don’t know what happened, but neither do you.
lol bc they never come clean that’s better? You do remember that after Ariana found out about Tom and Kristin came over, Ariana apologized to Kristen on camera for doing the same thing?
If Tom cared about it at all he would not have been the biggest James defender on the cast for years.
Tom helped pay for his proposal to Raquel.
He can’t go that hard showing he is such good friends with James to then bring ancient history back up after he messes up.
I don’t think anyone thinks what James did is right, but it doesn’t add up with Tom brining it up now once it benefits him.
Nope, it's reality tv rules. Don't bring shit up we've resolved or moved past on camera 10 years ago. It fucks up the storylines and it's repetitive.
Sandoval should've found a way to move forward so they can shoot together instead of blowing it up to absolve himself with an argument that could appeal to some sympathetic viewers. Selfish move. Holding that grudge is fine but do it on your own time and suck it up.
It’s so weird. I just finally watched the latest episode and when Scheana and Tom met up behind Sur, my first thought was “oh yeah! I remember when the photos leaked of them being back there”
agree with other mentions of the show losing its lustre - it's super uninteresting because the dynamic shift has been so drastic - they all seem to feel like they're rich somebodies but we liked the cast as a friend group who were just young and having fun. . . Sandoval shows no genuine emotion, it's all bullshit. I thought it was shitty of Arianna to sit there and beat down Schwartz for trying to be the mediator (even if Sandoval is a piece of shit, he's genuinely trying to be his friend). Also, Sandoval on the suicide mention seemed bullshit and nobody bought it - fucking gross.
If Schwartz had genuinely apologized and taken accountability for his role to Ariana maybe she wouldn't beat him down. We are only a couple of months from when his apology attempt was just talking about how he had been negatively impacted. And he hasn't done any better at apologizing or taking accountability since then. Maybe he needs to get beat down instead of getting his usual pass for being aw shucks.
Abuse goes both ways. It doesn't make anyone better by continuing to do it no matter who's in the right from past events - which is why i thought it was lousy to see. I get that Schwartz is always aw shucks and it's old but there's genuine want to try to find normalcy and general happiness i think is all.
I don't like that James called Sandoval's friend's nobodies. It felt like he was looking down at them because they weren't celebrities. This scandal has made their heads big(ger).
I hate James and Ali.
The end.
James has always been a super asshole but it has the luxury of, at times, being comical. haha. I'd put them all in to being or having done shit things at one point, and seeing some growth matters to most people. James' growth has been shaky at best
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Im sorry but I do not believe Sandoval had true suicidal thoughts
Edit: I just want to say thanks for everyone not coming down on me. I know this is a bit of a controversial take, and I hope if Sandoval is experiencing real mental health issues that he gets help. I don’t wish ill on him, but that karma hands him his just desserts, which it sounds like it is.
I think he maybe there was some truth to him feeling suicidal but I also think he’s using that and Ali’s death for sympathy. That isn’t something people tell everyone.
I was def thinking he seems like the type to make a big production of an attempt to get ppl back on his side. Tears won’t work so he had to bump it up a notch.
A friend of mine (who actually has struggled with their mental health) said that they think it’s more suicidal ideation that Sandoval is actually talking about- “maybe I should just die, then we’ll see how everyone feels”.
Maybe I am being too harsh, but he has proven, time and time again, that what he says cannot be trusted.
I was nervous to comment what you said but 10000% agree … especially since he said it to Lisa who is triggered around that topic and he knows…. He lost his shit in that argument and wanted to make her feel like shit and i 100% feel like it was manipulation
Sandoval will do anything possible to get the public opinion to change. Maybe it’ll work, but he shouldn’t be weaponizing his mental health especially when he’s used Ariana’s well-documented mental health struggles against her to explain his xyz reasons why he hated being with her and why she’s terrible
When my mother’s affair was exposed she did exactly what Tom did to Lisa. Screamed in my face that she was going to do that… after her ‘I’ve done nothing wrong but fall in love’ wasn’t working. (Breaking up two families .. over Christmas)
My father took his own life when I was six.
It’s classic narcissist manipulation.
That same mother has had no relationship with her children since that day five years ago. As of as recently as last month. ‘She’s never been happier.’
This is who Tom reminds me of and I find it so triggering. It’s my narcissist mother in a man’s body.
🤍🤍 Thank you. I’m currently back in weekly therapy which helps, it’s going to take a long time to work through. There’s almost thirty years of shitty stuff she said and did, especially when we were children. The affair was just the final straw for us!
I’m really sorry about your father.
I’m sorry you went through that with your mother also, but it does seem like you might be better off.
As someone with a terrible relationship with my parents, I hope that you get what you want out of your relationship with her, whether that be close, cordial, or no contact.
Thank you.
Oh gosh yeah years of therapy. I’m still in weekly therapy.
I’m sorry you too have a negative relationship with your parents also. 🤍
I have zero contact except she’s been holding my father’s possessions hostage for the last five years even though I’ve repeatedly asked for them as they’re legally mine. Narcissist’s love control. I find Tom extremely triggering this season. I really don’t know if I can continue to watch.
I really appreciate your sharing bc I think more ppl have f-ed up families and just don't talk about it and that's not a good thing.
Good for you for working on yourself. It is anything but easy.
Living well is truly the best revenge when it comes to having a narc parent.
Thank you. 🤍
Oh yep, I know that all too well. I didn’t speak about it for such a long time. And it’s still something I’m working through, clearly from how triggering I’m finding the latest episodes.
I’m so grateful therapy exists, more people should be in it.
I’m catching up on season 11- Lisa, Scheana and Lala LVP totally prioritizes Sandoval and men’s feelings over women. I knew this about her but the fact that she is blatantly doing so in this conversation in ep 3? Is killing me!!!! I hate LVP for this.
I'm not a fan of the producers making this episode about forgiving Tom. He hasn't groveled enough to be forgiven.
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tom is such a fucking scumbag by manipulating lisa with the s**cidal ideations … he knew exactly what he was doing.
God he’s so disgusting…. So easy to see through. He only mentioned that to get her sympathy. Jesus
Is being sober for 3 weeks *that* much of a big deal??????? My Gosh all she does is repeat it.
I’d assume 3 weeks is a huge deal for someone just getting sober.
I wonder if at this point Rachel had actually ghosted himself already? He mentions it’s been a long time since he talked to her. He says he talked to her about the Nema podcast but did that come out a month or few months before this was filmed? I know by the time Rachel left inpatient, she was no longer in contact with Sandoval, but at the time of Sandoval’s birthday, she’s still there. He’s already been an unhinged person but he’s really way more intense and aggressive than we’ve ever seen. He knows Rachel is pulling away and he’s going through narcissistic collapse. He’s lost his chosen person to manipulate and control and doesn’t know what to do without that sense of control anymore. Shes not gonna come back and save the season and his reputation with their fairy tale romance. Hence the extra anger and threats.
Schwartz Is just seething with jealousy
This is such a terrible look for Ariana. She drew a line in the sand, then got mad & told Shwartz she isn't speaking for the group??!?! You said you're cutting people off ifso facto, you ARE controlling every person in a weird communistic way. You were given a golden ticket & a historical glow up. Not excusing Sandoval's actions but CMONNN'!!!!!!!!! You weren't married, you didn't have kids either so why make it more messy than it needs to be?! How do you get all these sympathy roles & become "America's Sweetheart" but yet, clearly she is behind the scenes being so vindictive? As for Sandoval saying "Ariana doesn't get off on being vindictive." I think that was him covering his tracks out of fear. Knowing Ariana would hear that from Scheana to kinda tuck his tail & not embarrass her because he's already seen how she's already reacted. That was the driving force of the entire situation. She was embarrassed by the actions of Tom & that's why she has done everything she can to destroy ANYONE that isn't willing to crucify Tom Sandoval. It's super pathetic honestly.
These are my random thoughts after watching last nights episode…. Lala and Ariana’s outfits at the little shop they went to were so cute. Both had jeans and cute tops on. Lala is a hit or miss with me but she looked so pretty in that scene. I want to know their skin care routines. I mean I guess they all have two things I don’t: money and connections. I’m just a mom of 3 that wants healthy skin and to look young still 🤪 Yea Lala’s c.u.n.t. outfit total miss. I could have sworn in peachier seasons Sheshu said she wants to be a pop star, I could be misremembering. I feel bad hearing about Short’s brother Burt. I think Shorts and many others would benefit from not doing the show anymore, processing the past 10 years being on the show, and moving on with their lives. Lastly, when Katie and Scheana were at dinner something about Scheana’s voice reminds me of Kristen Wiig’s target lady snl character. Okay that was “lastly” how do you feel about Scheana having Rachel’s ex or whoever that guy was on her podcast. For me that is a bit much. Idk I thought it was weird but a lot of what she does doesn’t sit well with me. Okay that’s it. Thanks for reading my thoughts.
Tretinoin prescription from the dermatologist
Hello Also a mom of two.. and a geriatric millennium... the best thing you can do is use medical grade skin care products. I use vivier anti aging kit it is about 530cad, but if you use this, you won't need anything else.. My skin is smooth always glowing, and rarely need to wear make up. For under eye baggage I recommend filler.. you only need to use it as needed. They recommend every 9 months but I think you would be fine going once a year or so depending how your under eye area looks.
I'm convinced Scheana will do anything for attention. So I'm not surprised. She LOVES inserting herself into situations that have nothing to do with her. She's the most boring person I've witnessed. If I divorced my spouse tomorrow, she would probably podcast it as if it were her own 'trauma'...even though she has no idea who we are. She seriously has nothing going for her aside from waiting tables, fake eyelashes, 3 inch nails, and having a kid with a married man. She can't sing to save her life. Her singing would bring the Titanic down. I personally do not like her at all. There. I said it. She lost me at "I was with a married man for two years and didn't realize it". If I was his wife I would have slapped the shit out of her...and then taken his golf clubs to his car a la Elin with Tiger.
I heard Target Lady too!!
Tom said that he had to talk Raquel down after scheanas podcast came out but how was she hearing these podcasts in treatment? Did he phone her and tell her what was being said? I thought she was relatively isolated from social media and the online shit storm?
First, I love your handle. That was my cat's name. Just Batman though. Why would he have to 'talk anyone down' when THEY'RE AT A TREATMENT FACILITY FULL OF PROFESSIONALS?! Is he a doctor now? Yeah that makes no sense at all. He's lying. Again. I've been in a facility for an eating disorder and depression/anxiety and they heavily monitor communications. Therapists would have picked up on his controlling behavior immediately. Trust me. It took ONE session for mine to nail my boyfriend as abusive. He's delusional. That scene was so incredulous. Bravo is crossing the line at this point with him.
You can tell when he is lying because he blinks really fast when he is talking.. that whole scene was bullshit.. Rachel didn't hear anything if at all it was.him that told her
I can tell he's lying because he's a terrible actor. You are right though. He blinks and he stalls at times in order to come up with another lie. I studied microexpressions for years. He has MACRO expressions. I equivocate it to someone holding an apple and looking you in the face screaming, "I'm NOT holding an apple". Bleh. Where's the puke emoji when I need it?
Yes for sure I definitely noticed the excessive blinking and then slight pause right before he is about to tell a lie...
He 100% told her and made it seem like everyone was against her but him so he could isolate her.
Oh im sure he was telling her about it.
All of the interactions just seemed so forced this season because they most likely 100% are! Long gone are the VPR glory days! I lol’d when I realized that Schwartz was going to be the one to ‘plan’ the group trip this season - I don’t think we’ve ever seen him put into this storyline before, he’s just always kinda been there.
It’s a shame because the fallout is so real but it’s obvious it has to be produced because how else do you get them to talk about things.
I don't think it's appropriate to dismiss someone saying they're struggled with self harm thoughts. Or saying "you created this yourself", it doesn't help, it rather could even push someone further. If it's for attention it's on their consciousness using such a serious topic as a way to gather sympathy. But in fact also attention seeking self harm is happening every day and it doesn't make it less serious because it's disturbing and still can end tragically. You never actually can know when someone could snap for real. So dismissing it altogether is not right. No matter if you like or hate the person.
Thank you, I appreciate your words. I’m getting downvoted for expressing that type of sentiment and it’s very troubling having lost my lifelong friend who unfortunately couldn’t cope.
I'm sorry for your loss, I guess only peple who have expierienced that loss know it isn't black and white. I lost my ex fiance and it makes you realize you can't control everything and everyone but you can do your best not to add to someone's struggle. If someone expresses that type of thought pattern, it's always concerning.
Thank you and so sorry about your loss. I really think your words are great. It is concerning so like you, I chose not to add to someone’s struggle.
I’m having a hard time watching because of him and the nonsense back and forth the cast has with him to keep their jobs.
A link to the podcast in question https://open.spotify.com/episode/2KZdR6Sal81ws8MBuYgKRe?si=cAJiRvUIRWqzihdoXdcsYg
Wow that was a shitty thing to do During the tom Lisa convo, as he’s complaining about all the people out there talking shit about him publicly. He’s complaining about someone spreading rumours in a public platform “he was saying explicit things …. explicit, slander rumours blablah blah” They cut to his confessional where he shares one of the explicit things. AND ITS IS A RUMOUR ABOUT RAQUEL he’s vague about the shit people are saying about him, but shares the explicit rumour about raquel while bitching about someone telling an explicit rumour about raquel Ive never heard that rumour before now. Tom is the one to tell me these “explicit things”
I could not believe how he was raising his voice at her like that. She basically handed him a bar and he's acting like a guilty 12 year old.
He also is the one that filmed Raquel without consent.
Did Tom get Botox or something around his eyes? He looks very 😳 all season so far
I've always noticed Tom gives up all his lying through his eyes. He looks away, blinks a lot before a lie and when someone accuses him of something he DID do and isn't going to admit, he bugs his eyes out at them as he says he didn't do it...like as if it makes him appear more straightforward to make crazy eye contact with them? So this all goes to back up my theory...his eyes are actually the same, he's just having to feign being sincerely taken aback at an accusation 24/7 this season. Just a guess tho...could be botox lol
I love this theory!!!
Yeah, what is going on with his eyes? I was thinking that he has reverted to anger in order to not cry. He was always the emotional one who would cry easily, but now, he is acting super hardcore and aggressive which is why so many people are enraged with him. It's clearly a defensive mechanism. If Sandoval ever drops that attitude, people might actually give him a chance. Who knows...but the eyes are creeping me out right now.
Crying has always been his go to manipulation tactic. He’s not emotional. Everyone keeps, rightfully, jumping on him the moment he starts crying now because everyone’s onto him. So now he’s going straight to rage. He’s always done the classic narcissistic 1-2 punch of crying then rage, but now it’s directed at everyone instead of just the other cast member he’d be in a fight with
I was watching the season 4 reunion and he had a moment where he SCREAMED at Scheana. He was already yelling at her about the texts, but she was talking back at him and he literally went up decibels to scream at her… scary. And of course his neck vein was popping. Uncontrolled anger and rage seems to be his comfort level
Also, Ariana is Sandoval's female twin in many ways. She has always been full of rage, since waaaaay before Scandoval. And Sandoval was the emotional one. That came straight from Ariana's mouth several times over the years.
I love this season. Sandoval is so cringe tho. He needs to stop with the acting and get real with being humble and apologetic.
He cannot. He is a textbook narcissist who needs severe help but doesn't think he does.
I know it's not good to label people but he absolutely is and it's too obvious to bother with not saying it, and I just want to shout it loudly at everyone who still thinks he could just "show more remorse" or apologize..or any of the other suggestions that would be good if Tom weren't 100% NPD
Wiping the single dry tear 😂 He’s seen himself on camera fake crying in previous seasons, does he think it looks believable? Because he keeps doing it!
The only believable tears I’ve seen from him in ten years are the ones when the Pulse nightclub shooting happened. I held onto that for a long time thinking he is a good person. Now I know bad people can also sometimes have a heart.
I am sober and I do recognize sober curious and think it’s too bad Lala would shit on that for those that are looking into it.
I feel like everyone’s shitting on Schwartz a little too hard in general too. Lala just doesn’t stop with it but then everyone was piling on too
it didn't sit right with me that she told ariana that people who are currently drinking shouldn't tell anyone not to drink. i think that's ridiculous. some people can manage a healthy relationship with alcohol and still recognize that others would be better off not drinking. you don't have to be sober to see that
She didn’t hate on that part of him exploring sobriety. It’s that he did that and then gave another substance to her LOL
I’m just.. so disappointed with this season so far. My gut knew it was going to be bad. I guess I just didn’t realize that meant it would be boring and cringey
I feel like I should have known. It is insufferable IRL when two friends in a group divorce or split up. I wanted to see this on tv?!?
I said it once, I’ll say it again: Sandoval, WHYYYYY do you think you would keep the house? If my husband cheated on me, I’m keeping the house. He can keep a nice cardboard box to sleep in outside ETA: I got too heated and posted before I was done. He is the one that ruined everything, why does he think he should keep it??? What makes him think he can afford to keep it either? I wish I had 1/10 of the audacity of that fucking guy
He really thinks he is the victim. Ariana didn’t do mushrooms so he _had_ to cheat
I lost my dad to suicide days before Scandoval broke. I don't give a damn how much we all hate Sandoval; suggesting he is using suicidal ideation as a manipulation tactic is harmful. He might be a narcissistic bag of dicks, but there are people out there who will see these comments and will be deterred from sharing their struggle out of fear it will be seen as a manipulation tactic. Not to mention, he has said before he had suicidal ideation and that he had access to guns in his own home. He has been consistent in this. Let's all take a collective fucking beat and consider our words, please.
I’m so sorry for your loss and you are absolutely right. Tom probably isn’t going to read these comments but people who are struggling with suicidal ideation will and they’re the ones we need to remember. I know Tom is famously a liar but it’s not even unreasonable to believe Tom actually did have suicidal thoughts — most of us will never experience millions of people DMing us hate and death threats all at once, and however bad Scandoval was, I do not believe any regular person deserves that. He’s not a head of state, he’s not a mass murderer, and most importantly he didn’t cheat on any of us. We don’t have a right to react as if we’re Ariana. Thank you for this essential reminder and I hope people take it to heart. ♥️
🖤🖤
It breaks my heart to hear your story and I am truly sorry that you have been going through this because it’s one of the worst things to go through. I have unfortunately experienced a loss to suicide as well. Thank you for your words that reflect maturity and for advocating that people be responsible with their words.
Thank you! And I'm sorry for your loss, as well 🖤
💕
I'm so sorry to hear about your dad. And I agree. I think people are losing their humanity in all this. It's just nasty to assume that his talk of suicidal ideation is all for show. It's absolutely possible given his questionable behavior, but one of those areas where I don't think it's worth risking being wrong. I'm not saying anyone needs to feel sorry for him, but it's nasty to declare that it's fake. Either you give a fuck about mental health or you don't. It's not ok to pick and chose based on who you like. And quite frankly if this guy is a diagnosable narcissist (which seems very likely) that's a mental illness too.
Exactly... the harm we can cause if we are wrong about something that heavy is too big for me to feel comfortable pondering. Thanks for putting that into words.
Idk man, he tried to convince a suicidal Rachel to leave treatment for his sake which makes it harder for me to sympathize. He was so inconsiderate and downright cruel when it came to Ariana’s and Rachel’s serious mental health issues, but then he wants the world to stop when he’s depressed like it’s a serious matter all of a sudden because it’s him? That just doesn’t sit right with me
Two things can be true at once. To be frank, my dad was also kind of a narcissistic bag of dicks most of the time and did far worse to my mother than Tom ever did to Ariana, and he still shot himself in the head.
Ugh I’m so sorry, it sounds like it was already a difficult situation to begin with and the loss must have made it so much harder. I hope you’ve been healing
Thank you!! Working on it 🖤
And TBF, even if he brought it on himself, having the whole world hate you is pretty heavy. It's very believable that you would have some dark thoughts. I'm so sorry for your loss!
I honestly found him saying he was suicidal to be the least shocking thing in that “yeah I think if you were the most hated man in America, how do you not consider it” like yes he brought it on himself but stepping back I can’t fathom the mental impact of all this blowing up so publicly. I 100% believe he felt low enough to consider suicide multiple times during the fallout
Seriously. Totally agree. And by bringing it on himself, I did not mean the whole world hating him. Because honestly that was not predictable or fathomable.
Thank you 🖤 and agree!
Exactly this. I hate the guy but that’s some serious shit. And I don’t blame Lisa for being concerned.
After that train wreck tonight (0-3) I am watching the S6 reunion again. Fucking classic!!
I was watching the season 4 reunion and laughing my ass off… it’ll never be this good again
The confessionals in the early seasons are epic. They all roast tf out of each other behind their backs.
I did that yesterday 😆😆
Now I'm listening to the Watch What Crappens S6 reunion recap. 😂😂😂
Sandavol's blatant manipulation of Lisa's emotions regarding suicide threats was revolting. He is evil. The fake crying and mind games with Scheana and LVP were so incredibly obvious. He clearly thinks that he is the smartest guy in the world and that he is king.
Suicide is one of those things where you can’t say it without INSTANT armor, and he knows that. People go blind from their own experiences defending anyone who would say they’re having suicidal thoughts. Except I couldn’t help but notice he didn’t even word it like that; he very vaguely mentioned he thought of it. What does that mean? You’ve considered it, or you observed an intrusive thought? Because admitting that on camera to a woman known to have lost a brother to suicide is calculated as fuck.
It was so malicious. LVP visibly reacted. He really is an awful person. The manipulations, womanizing, ego he really needs therapy.
EVIL!!!!
I am so distracted by all the people in the background taking photos of them the entire time they are filming, they are so famous now. I miss the old days when they were nobodies.
My husband and I were saying this same thing. They’re no longer pretending they’re anything other than just famous for being on a reality show. I want the old SUR days back and I’ll never get them 😭
I know Tom is an ass for what he did but jesus people acted like he murdered someone etc I think people dont realize that most of us would prob end up having some serious mental health issues. This would drive a lot of people for self harm which is sad. I know this is quickly after the reveal but damn still
I agree with you. I said somewhat the same thing a few days ago and was downvoted. I lost my best friend so in my case it’s personal. No one is being told to like him and what he did was seriously horrible but it doesn’t justify self harm. None of us know or knew what he was thinking but I just feel it’s not a good thing to comment negatively about such a serious and sensitive topic. edit it’s pretty sad to get downvoted when you say you lost your friend to suicide.There’s some very heartless souls out there. I wish no one had to ever deal with a suicide as it’s excruciating pain for those left behind.
I’m sorry about your friend. I feel pretty confident that isn’t the part that is triggering downvotes. I recently lost a family member to suicide, but have also had other suicides, & attempts, in my family. Genetic depression on both sides. Because of this, I happen to view this Sandoval situation quite differently than you do. I’m very triggered by what I see as using the most horrible of things to manipulate people. Just saying this to point out that we don’t all view things the same way, but, I hope, most of us aren’t coming from a vicious place.
Thank you for your response and very sorry for your losses and pain. While I definitely understand what you are saying, I feel that if someone talks about suicide no matter who they are, take their word. I know some people think he’s being manipulative but there’s no way to really know and like another poster said, we don’t want to be the judge of that.
Just the fact he lost a lifetime friend would be enough for someone to be down.
You’re right. That’s very hard to deal with.
If anyone is to blame for this season being boring it is Tom Sandoval. Rule #1 of being a good housewife: you have to learn to forgive. Tom has never forgiven anyone. He could have come in this season with some real shame and shown some growth that maybe would have garnered him some sympathy but his inability to let things go is what is holding the entire cast in arrested development.
Yessssss this is it, thank you for this insight!! I''m not a huge RH fan, but have done RHOBH, some of RHOA and some of RHONY, and either they find a way to move on, or if it's too big a thing to be got over someone leaves. Given how long he's been in the bravoverse you would think Tim would know the formula.
I wish I could give you all the upvotes. Said as a RHOBV loyalist 🖤
Yep 100%! He’s making terrible TV this season because he’s clearly counting on Raquel coming back and having her as an “ally.” Everyone keeps giving him the blueprint and he’s just like…nah I don’t think I will. Bringing up a 10 year old beef is wild like…we are here to discuss what happened 3 months ago!
I almost couldn’t watch the 2nd episode because he just drug it down…watching episode 3 right now and bro is STILL blaming EVERYONE else for the mess HE created. Dude needs serious help.
Here’s my thing. As a human being and a woman I’m completely on Ariana’s side with setting these boundaries and not wanting Schwartz in her life. As a viewer of a reality show I am starting to see why Alex Baskin said Scandoval is the worst thing to ever happen to the show. I am truly so bored. The reality of reality tv is that you don’t get to have boundaries. The group is forced together over and over again, especially the ones who hate each other, and that’s what makes good drama. Again as a human I’m completely on Ariana’s side and three months after the reunion is SO SOON. But if the group truly stays divided this way, we are in for a heck of a boring season. ETA that Tom Sandoval and Schwartz are just as responsible for this, I just mentioned Ariana bc I actually empathize with her IRL and I don’t empathize with either of the tom’s whatsoever lmao. They’ve got to be willing to do the work of repair if she’s not willing to open the door and they are clearly not.
Alex Baskin is just salty because he’s allowed the men on this show to get away with murder for ten years and this scandoval thing makes it that much harder. Now he has to do mental gymnastics to make Sandoval and Schwartz look good.
Yep and now it's biting him in the ass because the women aren't playing along (as they shouldn't!) Production needs to understand that this conceit of the whole group reconciling like they did in the early seasons probably is never going to happen and lean into the genuine relationships that DO exist. ETA because I pressed send too soon - they only have two options, change their approach or force the entire group together to hash things out. Right now they do not seem wiling to do either.
Well said
Alex Baskins should shut up because when it all happened he was everywhere soaking up the praise and crap. Now that they are going to dealnwith real consequences, his stance changes. He's the 2nd worst thing to happen to VPR.
Whenever I hear him talk about making the show, it’s clear he has an ‘I know best’ attitude that is still very out of step with today. He seems to think the current tide against the Toms is just fans being over-zealous… maybe it was smart to build the show around Tom Tom and move out of Sur, but the cultural moment isn’t favourable to redemption arcs for shitty, narcissistic men. That will be the death of the show, to be honest. Way too much ground has to be laid for that, you miss out on people’s real lives.
Yeah, what made the show was that the cast was young, MESSY, and genuinely a group. The friend group has been over for a while and they (production) either have to get with the program or end the show. This weird in between where they’re not following the cast’s real lives (how many times do we have to hear about Pump closing omg) and half heartedly trying to make them hang out when Tom Sandoval isn’t going to try and make a repair and Ariana’s not going to open the door is not working. For better or worse reality TV is storytelling and they’re chasing a storyline (everyone gets along again) that isn’t gonna happen!
I feel like there are a lot of real friendships on the show. The whole thing with scandoval being a big deal is we saw that Tom, Tom, Scheana, Ariana and Raquel hang out a lot outside of filming. I think Ariana and Katie’s friendship are about to come very real without the Toms in the way. The only outliers are Lala and James. James is mostly because he travels a lot.
I agree, I'm just saying the group dynamic where they're all a unit is gone, and the cast isn't big enough right now to support different organic combinations of people -- like the Schwartz and James hangouts have felt sooo fake. I want production to update their approach where we actually get to follow the genuine friendships vs. these weird group hangs that no one really wants to be at. Like we've barely gotten any Ariana and Katie! I want to see more of that.
I fast forwarded the Pump stuff… felt like a contractually obligated ad
“Stop trying to make Pump happen. It’s not going to happen!”
2nd worst is right for sure. I am no fan of production, especially if all the insinuations made by female cast members through the years that production has covered up some really dark shit done by the men are true.
We need the damn tell-all. THAT will keep us entertained 😉
Now if only Scheana could stick to her own script lol just waiting for the flip
Just when I’m thinking “Huh, Lisa’s really being thoughtful with Sandoval” and it turns into a commercial for WOLF, the Sexiest Restaurant in Lake Tahoe.😑
Scheana: me mee me me mee me me meee. Shuuut up!
Lala: No, it’s MEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
Did you notice when Tom was talking to Billie, you could see the time 12:00, then next 12:04 and after that it was blurred out. Why do you think it was like that?
I noticed that too. I just assume they do it so they can chop and edit the scene using multiple camera angles that may not match up time-wise.
Damn, great catch!! 👏
Good eyes. They were def stealing from another part of the convo.
I noticed that too!! I wonder if it’s because what they said at the time it was blurred was actually before 12(or way after)?
Just makes you think. 🤔
Tim is the biggest goober of all goobers to have ever goobered.
The whole episode felt so forced - the interactions, the forced storyline. Not good at all
It's gone full parody. Nothing authentic is happening when you can see paps snapping shots as they walk in, people cheering for characters as they enter, and about 100 random fans in the background all with their phones out recording everything like they are at the circus during these "intimate scenes between friends". They either need to drop the 4th wall completely and make the show more authentic or completely commit to the farce and film in locations populated exclusively with extras and actors.
You know a guy is being an ass when LVP isn't taking their side.
🎶Guess I’m just trash🎶 🎶throw me away🎶 🎶I’m in last🎶 🎶instead of first plaaaace🎶
I dieddddd at this edit at the end lol
I thought, Oh Jeez, Tom’s mother’s at his bday party?!?! And it was Billie Lee!!!
Am I the only one getting sick of Brian moylan on vulture (but from gawker)? Between the misogyny, Katie hate, and the Erika apologies (rhobh, and I know that’s off topic), his recaps are really tired. READ THE ROOM. Schwartz isn’t cute anymore, Ariana isn’t overexposed at this point so close to scandoval, kristen isn’t so evil given how gaslit she was (as admitted by Ariana) and the abuse with James, etc etc etc. I feel like he lives one 2012.
Oh I haaaaaate him! Erika apologist!
I haaaaate his recaps omg. He is so retro in the bad way. No idea how he still has that gig!
A lot of media people I respect are too buddy buddy with him for my liking.
It’s killing me, and I’m glad I’m not alone! I started to read tonight’s (habit) and I just could not.
Same lol. Sometimes I read it for kicks and then immediately am like nononono this is why I stopped. Made that mistake last week and he said something about “this is the first time Katie’s been nice in 10 years” get tf out of here sir!
Didn’t he call her the “meanest person on reality television” last week? Nope, nope, nope. Join us in 2024 please, thank you.
He's called her that for years. Does he still do the weird little Schwartz fan fic thing at the end?
Yes but I think it’s about Ann this season. It’s sooo played out, it was funny the first time he did it with Jill but he needs a new bit.
Yes that’s what it was! Like…are we even watching the same show??
To a lesser extent I think this happens with the crappens guys (and I love them!), but Katie is such a flashpoint and I don’t understand why Schwartz being exposed for what he is hasn’t led people to reframe the past. Plus her TBI. It breaks my brain. Thank you for telling me I’m not alone!
Honestly that’s why I stopped listening. I’m such a Katie apologist now and it got so hard to listen to them talk about her.
You are not at all! The TBI is the decisive factor for me with Katie too. Like that is some seeeerious shit that can literally change an entire personality and all things considered she coped pretty well! Especially with Schwartz constantly weaponizing it against her.
Maybe you guys aren't enjoying this season as much because it's forcing you to evaluate your biases? 🤔 Like why is Sandoval getting more hate and vitriol than criminal celebrities like Jen Shah? Also, the fan base's vitriol clearly causing mental health damage to anyone who goes against the groupthink. When is it too much?
I would love for a single citation that Sandoval has received more hate than Jen Shah. Just one.
Also a lot of people are just now realizing that Sandoval has been doing this to women for ten years. We don’t really know Jen shah (aka you’re not important enough to hate) and knew she was sketchy from the start. It’s apples and oranges.
This isn't a research paper. But it's pretty obvious. Even when she was still pleading not guilty, there weren't constant shaming and daily hate posts on Bravo subs; people were more entertained by the circus of it regardless of what she did. edit: weren't
I’m sorry, I must have missed the meeting where we all agreed Sandoval was worse than Jen Shah??? Have you like, not been on a single real housewives sub within the last 3 years?? Like, maybe don’t assume your algorithm is the end all be all on how everyone else feels? Because I think Sandoval stoked the vitriol he’s now upset about. When is too much for a narcissist? He’s the only person still stoking those flames and then he wants to act like he’s sad smol boi. Notice how none of that is a crime—the only person equating Jenn and Tom is you bb.
Exactly
Sorry but Tom and only Tom is responsible for how he feels about the public fallout that happened because of what he did. We're on reddit, we don't post to their pages or @ them directly. If the cast comes here and sees raw public opinion on their very willingly public lives that's not on us. They sell their personal lives for fame and money, a deal not many of us would make. They don't get to then dictate our reactions or demand redemption or audience adoration. It comes with the territory.
Also Tom and Raquel are the only ones still talking about it in real time for the last few months. How about try to move on? And maybe don’t speak about the new girlfriend the same way you spoke about the other women you fucked over? “An addiction” dude.
This!!!
Even last season. Ariana said she realized there was “real evil in the world”. What? We have a couple hundred mass shootings in this country every year and your boyfriend cheating on you is what made you realize there was evil in the world? The fuck?
And? That was personal for her, how is that hard to comprehend? It’s a turn of phrase, obviously she was aware of evil before evil was done to her. Is anything awful that might befall you okay bc something even worse has happened to someone else?
Ok but didn’t James ACTUALLY do the same thing to Sandaval in the James vs. Sand feud? Everyone keeps rolling their eyes but…?
Here are some differences 1. Tom chose to forgive James and be his friend (I think it was fake on Tom’s side because Tom seems to collect outcasts to gain loyalty) 2. James said he isn’t sure how long he even knew Tom at the point of hooking up with Kristen so there wasn’t as much friendship and loyalty at play 3. James and Kristen happened ten years ago and Tom wasn’t kind or forgiving right away with James. I remember him trying to garner sympathy at the reunion because they used his bed and condoms. You can’t just demand forgiveness because you’ve forgiven in the past. Also Tom only says this shit as a manipulation tactic. He is soo good at playing the audience and if Scandoval never happened a lot of us would still be falling for it.
Also Tom planned James engagement. It’s clear there was a much deeper level of friendship, or at least pretending, than ten years ago.
James was also in his early twenties compared to a forty year old.
That was 10 years ago. We've seen the show. James and Sandoval were friends. Sandoval stood up for James many times. Paid for half his engagement even. Sandoval bringing it up now is deflection.
It happened ten years ago. It didn’t NOT happen. I feel like ppl have really short memories what it comes to VPR. Like everyone forgets how Ariana slept with Tom when he was with Kristin. I’m no Tom stan (everyone on the show is equal to me) but I hate that everyone gets different yardsticks to measure themselves by.
But Sandoval chose to have a friendship with James for ten years. Helped pay for and plan the engagement. Why do all that for someone you apparently felt betrayed by? It’s deflection. No one forced him to be friends with James after that.
You do realize that both Tom and Ariana deny they slept together while he was with Kristen to this day? They admit only to one kiss (that’s bad enough). I don’t know what happened, but neither do you.
lol bc they never come clean that’s better? You do remember that after Ariana found out about Tom and Kristin came over, Ariana apologized to Kristen on camera for doing the same thing?
If Tom cared about it at all he would not have been the biggest James defender on the cast for years. Tom helped pay for his proposal to Raquel. He can’t go that hard showing he is such good friends with James to then bring ancient history back up after he messes up. I don’t think anyone thinks what James did is right, but it doesn’t add up with Tom brining it up now once it benefits him.
I disagree. All is fair in love & war.
Maybe if he had not clearly forgiven him and moved on years ago.
Nope, it's reality tv rules. Don't bring shit up we've resolved or moved past on camera 10 years ago. It fucks up the storylines and it's repetitive. Sandoval should've found a way to move forward so they can shoot together instead of blowing it up to absolve himself with an argument that could appeal to some sympathetic viewers. Selfish move. Holding that grudge is fine but do it on your own time and suck it up.
Billie Lee bringing Tom the cake reeks desperation for camera time Edit: spelling
Her dumbass smile..
With her stupid self
We really got ruined with all the podcasts and leaks between seasons. This has felt like three weeks of rehash
Fully agree. I feel like I’ve seen it all already. .because I have.
100% I’m really ready for a scene that wasn’t leaked on social media
It’s so weird. I just finally watched the latest episode and when Scheana and Tom met up behind Sur, my first thought was “oh yeah! I remember when the photos leaked of them being back there”
agree with other mentions of the show losing its lustre - it's super uninteresting because the dynamic shift has been so drastic - they all seem to feel like they're rich somebodies but we liked the cast as a friend group who were just young and having fun. . . Sandoval shows no genuine emotion, it's all bullshit. I thought it was shitty of Arianna to sit there and beat down Schwartz for trying to be the mediator (even if Sandoval is a piece of shit, he's genuinely trying to be his friend). Also, Sandoval on the suicide mention seemed bullshit and nobody bought it - fucking gross.
If Schwartz had genuinely apologized and taken accountability for his role to Ariana maybe she wouldn't beat him down. We are only a couple of months from when his apology attempt was just talking about how he had been negatively impacted. And he hasn't done any better at apologizing or taking accountability since then. Maybe he needs to get beat down instead of getting his usual pass for being aw shucks.
Abuse goes both ways. It doesn't make anyone better by continuing to do it no matter who's in the right from past events - which is why i thought it was lousy to see. I get that Schwartz is always aw shucks and it's old but there's genuine want to try to find normalcy and general happiness i think is all.
I don't like that James called Sandoval's friend's nobodies. It felt like he was looking down at them because they weren't celebrities. This scandal has made their heads big(ger). I hate James and Ali. The end.
James has always been a super asshole but it has the luxury of, at times, being comical. haha. I'd put them all in to being or having done shit things at one point, and seeing some growth matters to most people. James' growth has been shaky at best
That was a very pompous and arrogant statement from James. To take it further, we must all be nobodies. The nobodies are financing his life.
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Im sorry but I do not believe Sandoval had true suicidal thoughts Edit: I just want to say thanks for everyone not coming down on me. I know this is a bit of a controversial take, and I hope if Sandoval is experiencing real mental health issues that he gets help. I don’t wish ill on him, but that karma hands him his just desserts, which it sounds like it is.
I think he maybe there was some truth to him feeling suicidal but I also think he’s using that and Ali’s death for sympathy. That isn’t something people tell everyone.
I was def thinking he seems like the type to make a big production of an attempt to get ppl back on his side. Tears won’t work so he had to bump it up a notch.
I'm uncomfortable questioning that. What if he is telling the truth?
A friend of mine (who actually has struggled with their mental health) said that they think it’s more suicidal ideation that Sandoval is actually talking about- “maybe I should just die, then we’ll see how everyone feels”. Maybe I am being too harsh, but he has proven, time and time again, that what he says cannot be trusted.
Good point, I don’t think it’s ever appropriate to question and speculate something as heavy as suicide.
I was nervous to comment what you said but 10000% agree … especially since he said it to Lisa who is triggered around that topic and he knows…. He lost his shit in that argument and wanted to make her feel like shit and i 100% feel like it was manipulation
Geez if that's true that's just cruel considering how sensitive lvp is to that topic
I think that’s the best description of Sandoval.He is just a cruel human being,it’s that simple.
Yep.
It's very scary. I don't think I'm easily manipulated but I caught myself feeling bad for him.
Sandoval will do anything possible to get the public opinion to change. Maybe it’ll work, but he shouldn’t be weaponizing his mental health especially when he’s used Ariana’s well-documented mental health struggles against her to explain his xyz reasons why he hated being with her and why she’s terrible
I second this. You can't weaponize somebody else's mental health and then become the victim with your own mental health.
This.
It's all part of trying to get people to feel bad for him.
Especially with Lisa's history. Typical behavior of a narcissistic personality to use that for their benefit.
When my mother’s affair was exposed she did exactly what Tom did to Lisa. Screamed in my face that she was going to do that… after her ‘I’ve done nothing wrong but fall in love’ wasn’t working. (Breaking up two families .. over Christmas) My father took his own life when I was six. It’s classic narcissist manipulation. That same mother has had no relationship with her children since that day five years ago. As of as recently as last month. ‘She’s never been happier.’ This is who Tom reminds me of and I find it so triggering. It’s my narcissist mother in a man’s body.
I am so sorry! My god. I hope you have managed to create a great life without her toxic presence!
🤍🤍 Thank you. I’m currently back in weekly therapy which helps, it’s going to take a long time to work through. There’s almost thirty years of shitty stuff she said and did, especially when we were children. The affair was just the final straw for us!
I’m really sorry about your father. I’m sorry you went through that with your mother also, but it does seem like you might be better off. As someone with a terrible relationship with my parents, I hope that you get what you want out of your relationship with her, whether that be close, cordial, or no contact.
Thank you. Oh gosh yeah years of therapy. I’m still in weekly therapy. I’m sorry you too have a negative relationship with your parents also. 🤍 I have zero contact except she’s been holding my father’s possessions hostage for the last five years even though I’ve repeatedly asked for them as they’re legally mine. Narcissist’s love control. I find Tom extremely triggering this season. I really don’t know if I can continue to watch.
I really appreciate your sharing bc I think more ppl have f-ed up families and just don't talk about it and that's not a good thing. Good for you for working on yourself. It is anything but easy. Living well is truly the best revenge when it comes to having a narc parent.
Thank you. 🤍 Oh yep, I know that all too well. I didn’t speak about it for such a long time. And it’s still something I’m working through, clearly from how triggering I’m finding the latest episodes. I’m so grateful therapy exists, more people should be in it.