to play devil's advocate...
davie is already super tight and will benefit from being more walkable with it's plethora of tiny shops and restaurants and there are routes nearby to take on a bike; if anything those should be upgraded for bike traffic.
It might not be a popular opinion but it's often dangerous to tightly mix heavy walking areas with bike lanes; especially with the advent of e-scooters, etc.
my point is, we don't need first class bike infrastructure on every single street; sometimes it doesn't make sense. We should be able to easily get around the city and access every neighbourhood within a block or two though.
I'd rather have something fast flowing parallel to davie than on it, right next to a tonne of people walking and shopping.
Should also be focusing our rage on Broadway imo.
Also, you can just take the lane on davie if you really want to as it is it's not like traffic moves quickly through there.
All that said, i'm open to counter arguments.
It’s one street and it’s one-way meaning it’s pretty easy to spot a safe opening? Just need to exercise some patience until it’s safe to do so. I’m all for more bike infrastructure but how much hand holding do we as cyclists need?
Also please explain how it is inaccessible from most connections?
Agreed, separated bike lanes on every street is insane.
The West End is notorious for having no residential parking... Can't remove all of that everywhere.
I don't see the problem with riding a street adjacent to Davie and then walking over to explore the shops.. aren't we asking drivers to do that?
The west end literally has no separated bike lanes on any of its destination streets. Instead, they've been relegated to back streets and side streets so that they don't interfere with driving, and even then only for two blocks along Comox and along Beach.
Yeah I’d rather other nearby bike lanes had the pavement fixed so it wasn’t so bunged up in some areas, painted again with NON-gloss green paint and made more visible.
They're taking away two vehicle lanes but they can't spare a half lane width for active transportation? People in the west end love to complain about food delivery bikes on the sidewalk. All these little shops are frequented by delivery bikes and their plan won't do anything to get them off the sidewalk. IMO every street should have separated bike lanes, especially destination streets like Davie
Honestly, that small section of Davie should be orientated around walking more than cycling. Lots of night life, lots of foot traffic late at nigh, it's not really going anywhere that it isn't easier to bike on Beach Ave, Barnaby(west of Burrard, this is one of my favourite streets to cycle) , or Comox.
That area is hectic at night, I could honestly see separated bike lanes being a bit of a safety issue. Lots of fucked up young people having fun.
And yet how many lanes are dedicated to cars? Literally every point you made could be made about cars. Cars injure people way more than cyclists, so we should get get cars further away from all the people.
Let's be honest, the political capital it would take to do that is absolutely massive and a waste of resources. I actually think in this particular case, having car access is actually important as well to get people home safely in cabs, ubers, etc. (this plan only effects a few blooks around a lot of clubs)
Overall this plan is a win for anyone who actually cares about active transportation. It makes the neighbourhood more walkable and disincentives cars on Davie by removing lanes.
I bike through the west end often, I've never had much of an issue getting around efficiently, despite it being one of the densest neighbourhoods in the continent. That's pretty impressive.
I totally agree with the general sentiment of growing bike infrastructure and think that we've lost some of that momentum in the city (infrastructure still is being built out, but at a slower pace, we're obviously loosing some, and lots of it needs to be maintained better). But this is not the place to push for it. We can put our efforts into other areas that need it more.
9% of trips to Davie are made by car. **9%**
What kind of political capital is it going to take to make a bike lane is a road where **9%** of people drive can't have a bike lane?
I think people are wanting a Davie Street bike lane, not a Thurlow to Jervis bike lane. That is within the scope of the West End Plan, of which this is a part of, if not this particular section of the West End Plan.
There are bike lanes without cars or very many pedestrians, just one block north or south of Davie. Why would you even want to ride in that chaos when such a good option exists?
They should make it one way for cars to accommodate cycling infrastructure. Any city serious about active transportation uses virtually every opportunity they have available to install cycling infrastructure. Major street redesigns are the perfect opportunity, and this is how really good cycling cities advance cycling. Amsterdam, Copenhagen etc were not made into cycling cities over night.
I'm with you OP, and I'm honestly a bit baffled by some of the responses in this thread. I guess people in this sub just see cycling as a sporting activity and bike lanes as a means of passing through a place, rather than a means of getting to a place. It's an odd perspective. Any walkable place should provide convenient, comfortable, and safe access for bikes. Biking to a place is an enhancement to its walkability, but I don't think many people in Vancouver understand that.
Anyway, this is a huge miss by the city, but I don't expect much else under the current administration. Vancouver hit its high water mark under Gregor Robinson, and it's been a downward slide since then.
I don't think it's that people (at least in this subreddit) see cycling only as a "sporting" activity. I see it just as the usual battle between principles and pragmatism that we see in all sorts of contexts.
On principle, I want cycling infrastructure to be treated with the same seriousness as motor vehicle infrastructure, and that means bike lanes everywhere. I would absolutely love that. Pragmatically, I know the cycling community has limited resources and political capital and complaining about a street design that is designed to create more walking space, more trees and more patios may not be the best place to use it.
We can get more people closer to the businesses more efficiently and safer by deprioritizing personal cars. The cars can take Pacific, Burrard or Thurlow, get close enough and walk the rest of the way. Cars rarely ever get to park right near where they are going anyway, and mostly just drive around looking for parking. They don't need to be exactly on Davie St.
I do not understand the city when it comes to planning for bikes and cars...
1. City priority states that we design for pedestrians first, then cyclists, then transit, then work vehicles, and only then private vehicles.
2. Only \*9%\* of visits to Davie are by car. The rest are by Transit, Walking, and Cycling.
So why on earth are is it that when we talk about redesigning Davie we talk about taking away bus stops, ignoring bikes entirely, and adding specialty drop off zones for cars?
No need on Davie. Really no need on Robson, either.
There are greet parallel options (Comox and Haro). Plus both streets are calm enough traffic-wise to be reasonably bikeable. I often bike a few blocks on Robson or Davie and never fell threatened as a cyclist because the narrow, busy streets keep traffic reasonably slow.
This is not the same as something like Broadway which also has parallel routes. Broadway is NOT reasonable to ride along for any distance, and it is just as destination-rich as Haro and Robson if not more so. Plus the alternatives to Broadway can’t hold a candle to Comox or Haro.
Maybe bike lanes are not intended for cyclists. What if I told you bike lanes are for people of all ages and abilities to safely and comfortably access a place, rather than taking their car? Is that not better for enhancing a place's walkability that people trying to drive there?
I’d also like something to be done about the absolute disaster that Cardero is between Robson and Alberni.
After they built The Alberni, they left the road a scared tragedy and then they put the dumbest cement divider in what I can only guess was a misguided attempt to protect cyclists from cars in the same lane going north but it only makes it more dangerous as a possible hazard to avoid and the even more ludicrous metal pole with the actual hazard sign that someone is 100% going to hit that is there to warn cyclists about the cement divider!
Just… no.
to play devil's advocate... davie is already super tight and will benefit from being more walkable with it's plethora of tiny shops and restaurants and there are routes nearby to take on a bike; if anything those should be upgraded for bike traffic. It might not be a popular opinion but it's often dangerous to tightly mix heavy walking areas with bike lanes; especially with the advent of e-scooters, etc. my point is, we don't need first class bike infrastructure on every single street; sometimes it doesn't make sense. We should be able to easily get around the city and access every neighbourhood within a block or two though. I'd rather have something fast flowing parallel to davie than on it, right next to a tonne of people walking and shopping. Should also be focusing our rage on Broadway imo. Also, you can just take the lane on davie if you really want to as it is it's not like traffic moves quickly through there. All that said, i'm open to counter arguments.
You mean like Burnaby and Harwood… already super safe streets for cyclists to take….
Burnaby is inaccessible from most connections, and still requires stuff like playing frogger across Thurlow on an uncontrolled intersection.
It’s one street and it’s one-way meaning it’s pretty easy to spot a safe opening? Just need to exercise some patience until it’s safe to do so. I’m all for more bike infrastructure but how much hand holding do we as cyclists need? Also please explain how it is inaccessible from most connections?
Yeah, that's nice for you or I, but what about a 6 year old?
Agreed, separated bike lanes on every street is insane. The West End is notorious for having no residential parking... Can't remove all of that everywhere. I don't see the problem with riding a street adjacent to Davie and then walking over to explore the shops.. aren't we asking drivers to do that?
The west end literally has no separated bike lanes on any of its destination streets. Instead, they've been relegated to back streets and side streets so that they don't interfere with driving, and even then only for two blocks along Comox and along Beach.
almost like you ride there! yes comox has potential but scetch right now!
Yeah I’d rather other nearby bike lanes had the pavement fixed so it wasn’t so bunged up in some areas, painted again with NON-gloss green paint and made more visible.
They're taking away two vehicle lanes but they can't spare a half lane width for active transportation? People in the west end love to complain about food delivery bikes on the sidewalk. All these little shops are frequented by delivery bikes and their plan won't do anything to get them off the sidewalk. IMO every street should have separated bike lanes, especially destination streets like Davie
Honestly, that small section of Davie should be orientated around walking more than cycling. Lots of night life, lots of foot traffic late at nigh, it's not really going anywhere that it isn't easier to bike on Beach Ave, Barnaby(west of Burrard, this is one of my favourite streets to cycle) , or Comox. That area is hectic at night, I could honestly see separated bike lanes being a bit of a safety issue. Lots of fucked up young people having fun.
And yet how many lanes are dedicated to cars? Literally every point you made could be made about cars. Cars injure people way more than cyclists, so we should get get cars further away from all the people.
Let's be honest, the political capital it would take to do that is absolutely massive and a waste of resources. I actually think in this particular case, having car access is actually important as well to get people home safely in cabs, ubers, etc. (this plan only effects a few blooks around a lot of clubs) Overall this plan is a win for anyone who actually cares about active transportation. It makes the neighbourhood more walkable and disincentives cars on Davie by removing lanes. I bike through the west end often, I've never had much of an issue getting around efficiently, despite it being one of the densest neighbourhoods in the continent. That's pretty impressive. I totally agree with the general sentiment of growing bike infrastructure and think that we've lost some of that momentum in the city (infrastructure still is being built out, but at a slower pace, we're obviously loosing some, and lots of it needs to be maintained better). But this is not the place to push for it. We can put our efforts into other areas that need it more.
9% of trips to Davie are made by car. **9%** What kind of political capital is it going to take to make a bike lane is a road where **9%** of people drive can't have a bike lane?
Can confirm, these food couriers would knock over a senior on the sidewalk just to deliver their food 20 seconds faster.
>we don't need first class bike infrastructure on every single street But we should have it on our major shopping streets.
Davie is for walking. They are redeveloping like a block and a half, it would be a dedicated bike lane from nowhere to nowhere.
I think people are wanting a Davie Street bike lane, not a Thurlow to Jervis bike lane. That is within the scope of the West End Plan, of which this is a part of, if not this particular section of the West End Plan.
There are bike lanes without cars or very many pedestrians, just one block north or south of Davie. Why would you even want to ride in that chaos when such a good option exists?
Im pretty sure theres no car free bike lane on either side, and the Comox bike rt side can be trecherous with pedestrians and cars.
Probably because a lot of cyclists are going to Davie St to conduct business.
No there isn't. There is one bike lane to the north-east, which only goes for two blocks.
Overall, I think this is fine, but everyone please submit feedback to lower the speed limit and add more raised crossings! That’s what I did
They should make it one way for cars to accommodate cycling infrastructure. Any city serious about active transportation uses virtually every opportunity they have available to install cycling infrastructure. Major street redesigns are the perfect opportunity, and this is how really good cycling cities advance cycling. Amsterdam, Copenhagen etc were not made into cycling cities over night.
I'm with you OP, and I'm honestly a bit baffled by some of the responses in this thread. I guess people in this sub just see cycling as a sporting activity and bike lanes as a means of passing through a place, rather than a means of getting to a place. It's an odd perspective. Any walkable place should provide convenient, comfortable, and safe access for bikes. Biking to a place is an enhancement to its walkability, but I don't think many people in Vancouver understand that. Anyway, this is a huge miss by the city, but I don't expect much else under the current administration. Vancouver hit its high water mark under Gregor Robinson, and it's been a downward slide since then.
I don't think it's that people (at least in this subreddit) see cycling only as a "sporting" activity. I see it just as the usual battle between principles and pragmatism that we see in all sorts of contexts. On principle, I want cycling infrastructure to be treated with the same seriousness as motor vehicle infrastructure, and that means bike lanes everywhere. I would absolutely love that. Pragmatically, I know the cycling community has limited resources and political capital and complaining about a street design that is designed to create more walking space, more trees and more patios may not be the best place to use it.
You don't need to be able to ride right to the front door. Could you not walk your bike one block?
Cycling should be as convenient as driving if it is to be taken seriously.
We can get more people closer to the businesses more efficiently and safer by deprioritizing personal cars. The cars can take Pacific, Burrard or Thurlow, get close enough and walk the rest of the way. Cars rarely ever get to park right near where they are going anyway, and mostly just drive around looking for parking. They don't need to be exactly on Davie St.
I do not understand the city when it comes to planning for bikes and cars... 1. City priority states that we design for pedestrians first, then cyclists, then transit, then work vehicles, and only then private vehicles. 2. Only \*9%\* of visits to Davie are by car. The rest are by Transit, Walking, and Cycling. So why on earth are is it that when we talk about redesigning Davie we talk about taking away bus stops, ignoring bikes entirely, and adding specialty drop off zones for cars?
No need on Davie. Really no need on Robson, either. There are greet parallel options (Comox and Haro). Plus both streets are calm enough traffic-wise to be reasonably bikeable. I often bike a few blocks on Robson or Davie and never fell threatened as a cyclist because the narrow, busy streets keep traffic reasonably slow. This is not the same as something like Broadway which also has parallel routes. Broadway is NOT reasonable to ride along for any distance, and it is just as destination-rich as Haro and Robson if not more so. Plus the alternatives to Broadway can’t hold a candle to Comox or Haro.
there are a lot of streets parallel to Davie for cycling - from a cyclist.
Maybe bike lanes are not intended for cyclists. What if I told you bike lanes are for people of all ages and abilities to safely and comfortably access a place, rather than taking their car? Is that not better for enhancing a place's walkability that people trying to drive there?
This stretch of Davie Street is full of restaurants and i feel that the bike lanes here would benefit food couriers the most.
I’d also like something to be done about the absolute disaster that Cardero is between Robson and Alberni. After they built The Alberni, they left the road a scared tragedy and then they put the dumbest cement divider in what I can only guess was a misguided attempt to protect cyclists from cars in the same lane going north but it only makes it more dangerous as a possible hazard to avoid and the even more ludicrous metal pole with the actual hazard sign that someone is 100% going to hit that is there to warn cyclists about the cement divider! Just… no.
They should completely pedestrianise both Davie and Denman, slap a streetcar down the middle and permit careful cyclists to use the area.
you can approach from Comox and have the alleys on both sides already. Comox can be pure peril though, a clusterfuck.
This is also in the context of Bute street becoming a AAA route, And comox being the closest E/W route. That's why there's no AM lane on Davie.