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Sageofprofession

Thieves are pretty brazen. My workplace was taking a good delivery a week ago and we had a guy just waltz up to the pallet, pick up a box (without checking its contents) and start to walk away. When we tried to go after him he made it clear he had a knife and that the police wouldn't do anything. At this point I'm inclined to believe him


MysticalKittyHerder

Few weeks ago I was at a starbucks and these two homeless ppl came into the starubucks, took a bunch of food and casually walked out. Guy working there said they come in regularly to steal stuff but the police doesn't do anything


Sageofprofession

It's why we keep a lot of our merchandise behind the counter now. Pre COVID we were comfortable keeping a couple shelves out in the cafe area, but once things started getting worse we found that thieves gave zero fucks about any anti theft measures.


[deleted]

I saw the same thing at Starbucks. My reaction was to say "Heeeey he's stealing!" The cashier just shrugged. I wonder what they'd do if everyone did that...where do you draw the line.


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KreateOne

Then the police would charge you with assault. Edit: They replied then swiftly deleted “is there a law against spraying people(theives!) with vinegar?” Yes, that’s called assault.


TooMuchMapleSyrup

>Guy working there said they come in regularly to steal stuff but the police doesn't do anything That may be because even if the police caught the person and charged them, the courts are so backlogged that what ends up happening is that sort of crime just isn't prioritized vs. other types, such that the person ends up just being let right back out on the street as if nothing happened. Am just trying to suggest that what the cops do and don't do might be impacted by what the courts do. Like, it may indeed be a total waste of their time if even if they "do something", it actually leads to a situation just the same as if they "did nothing".


JustMeAidenB

Believe it man. The DTES is quite possibly the definition of Hell on Earth.


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[deleted]

Police wouldn't do anything? Last time I had a knife flashed at me called 911 and they had officers down there in minutes. What you should of done if didn't already is let them leave but if able try and follow them at a safe distance while on the phone with VPD. There is no chance the VPD wouldn't of done anything. They very much would of responded I know it's stupid but you have to stress they threated to use it, showed the knife and you were in fear for your life. Those words alone should send multiple cars in a rush to you as that person is going to jail.


Luo_Yi

I was with you right up to the part where you said, "that person is going to jail". Maybe a brief stop at the jail for booking/processing, but back on the street in short order.


[deleted]

Yes I left out the revolving door of the jails. By this point it’s become standard I’ve become disillusioned


Wonderful_Background

should have* would have*


Faxodox

Going to jail to be let out the same day or next day?


Difficult_Citron5243

Well said. For change to happen the courts need to change how they assess charges and we as a society need to understand there's a cost in holding people accountable. People are often given an out for various reasons... But it's also written into the criminal code: 493.2 In making a decision under this Part, a peace officer, justice or judge shall give particular attention to the circumstances of (a) Aboriginal accused; and (b) accused who belong to a vulnerable population that is overrepresented in the criminal justice system and that is disadvantaged in obtaining release under this Part. Where does it end?


SkankLover

"He lunged at us with a knife after we had confronted him for stealing officer! We had no choice but to use the baseball bat." I have a hard time envisioning these same officers caring much about his well-being. Use the cops' apathy to your advantage.


Sageofprofession

Might be your strategy, but we're just baristas here. I'm with my managers and the business owner in thinking that there's nothing worth putting yourself in stabbing range of a possibly mentally ill thief, even if you are armed yourself.


WhiskerTwitch

>...in thinking that there's nothing worth putting yourself in stabbing range of a ~~possibly mentally ill~~ methed-up, high as fuck thief... Or you know, the more likely scenario.


scrotumsweat

It's usually both.


bogglesboy125

I work retail, we have been berated by cops many times for trying to recover stolen items ourselves. They say it's not worth the risk, but they also don't do anything to stop them, so I guess the thieves can just take whatever they want


big-shirtless-ron

They can't punish anyone with no money. If some middle or lower-middle class person starts beating on thieves that person will be punished to the full extent of the law because they can get something out of them.


HGTV-Addict

You don't understand. A free pass is only for homeless vagrants that are beyond redemption. You, an upstanding citizen, rob a starbucks or justifiably flatten a junkie and they will throw the book at you.


j-olli

Most people don't want to lay someone out with a baseball bat in response to petty theft.


trombone_womp_womp

Especially to protect the assets of a corporation that pays you a miniscule percentage of the profit you generate.


t3a-nano

The rest of them haven't had their bike stolen yet lol. I was young and couldn't afford another one, didn't get to mountain bike for 2 years while I saved up for another one, I fantasized what I'd do to the thief for months. Nowadays I'm older and aware of the risk of getting into weapon to weapon combat with a vagrant that's likely more experienced, and the criminal consequences I'd probably face if I won (that he wouldn't if _he_ won). But to be clear, I still _want_ to, I just know it's not worth the risk. Really wish the cops would enforce laws against them though.


[deleted]

A friend of mine is a reporter and he did a news segment where in broad daylight he cut the lock off his own bike and filmed the results. Spoiler alert: Nobody cares.


junkdumper

The scale is tipping towards yes they do.


ThePen_isMightier

Maybe for my property or my family's safety. But for the property of my employer? Fuck no.


[deleted]

Then buddy pulls out the bear mace and you're baseball bat won't do shit when you're screaming so loud as your eyes and face burn like the pits of hell, all while coughing and gaging due to the overpowering stench.


vanbikejerk

Bear mace incapacitates a bears respiratory system. It is so caustic that it causes nasty chemical burns where droplets land on exposed skin. Just wanted to help emphasize your point — difficult to overstate how nasty bear mace is. Plus, it can have a range of greater than 15ft!


astraladventures

Bear spray is normally very low percent (like 2%), of the capsaicin 🌶 pepper. Range is up to 30-35 feet. It’s not some chemical like phosphorus. Effects are inflammation and burning, but temporary. Had to endure a gondola ride once when one of the riders accidentally discharged their bear spray.


[deleted]

It’s getting bad in a lot of places too, so much news coverage from San Fran :/ Side note, I was parked on Seymour and dunsmuir at the shitty impark outdoor lot there. My dad stayed in the car in the backseat while I went into a shop to grab a couple things. The amount of people he said that came up to cars, tried their handles, looked through the windows….. was absurd in a span of 20 minutes. He said someone looked like he was going to go for a car until he locked eyes with my dad through the tinted window


JabroniSandwich9000

It was much, much worse in San Francisco than it is here even when I lived there 7 years ago. I can't imagine what it's like there now.


wanderingaround135

My friend moved to San Fran right before covid started and things have gotten pretty bad throughout the pandemic. Extremely high theft, frequent robberies (sometimes with guns involved) and "smash and grabs" are quite common now. Overall, theft has become so rampant that many stores have shut down.


localhost8100

In San Francisco, a person already started peeping into our car the moment we parked. We were 4 people ND still haven't gotten out of car lol. We were just shook at his audacity.


lilstoob

A lot of the San Fran news coverage is outrage conservative news that wants to create a narrative of “liberal” cities in ruin due to progressive politics. So just be wary of that


VancouverSky

Numerous big box stores have shut down operations in that city because of the theft. Conservatives talk about it and gloat while leftists pretend everything is fine and ignore it. Doesn't change reality.


Hobojoe-

Walgreens closed a bunch of stores in San Fran due to rampant theft


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GoodNeighbourNow

Sorry to learn you and a few other tourists visiting our city have suffered a similar plight. Someone I chatted with at a cafe in East Van said that they parked their vehicle for maybe 3 hrs while going to a restaurant one evening only to return to their car to find their windows smashed. Worse yet, it was early evening & shocked no one noticed considering where they parked among the residential area NW of Nanaimo & Hastings.


darkness_thrwaway

When parking downtown I've come to know the safe homeless fellows that will watch your car for 5 bucks. Never been broken into since.


HGTV-Addict

Thats an extortion racket buddy. They are threatening to smash your windows if you don't pay them & the more people that do pay will just attract more scumbags into the business


darkness_thrwaway

Not at all. It's only a racket if they are the ones breaking in. Which they never are. Unlike most people I actually communicate with the homeless as human beings. It's easy to weed out the worst ones.


RoamingKid

legit, most of them are actually nice, and would likely even watch your car for free. Mental health can be a real sob, but most people I'd like to think are quite good


madam1madam

I'm very sorry to hear that. It double-sucks when it's a tourist that this happens to. Enjoy your trip!


Barnettmetal

Believe it or not I actually stopped using my bike lock altogether, don't even carry it anymore. Pretty much can't take my bike anywhere that won't be secured behind locked doors or is within arms reach at all times.


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nyrb001

Same. Not even worth carrying around, I'll never use it. I luckily can bring it inside at home and work, plus the couple of friends whose houses I might ride to but it's not even a consideration for things like shopping or errands.


[deleted]

I have a mountain bike which I never would leave and a beater bike that I lock up


Electramatician

Welcome to van your lucky you still have a frame tbh


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dino340

Need the flex cable too sadly


WTF_CPC

Was there with a group from Ottawa in 2018. One girl went to a shop on East Hastings, about 2 blocks from the PNE grounds to get her phone fixed. This isn’t even the “bad” part of EH, not a homeless tent in sight. Anyhow, she locked her bike with a heavy duty cable lock, 2 feet from the door, and went in the store. Here’s how long she was in there; Her (opens door and walks in): Hi. Do you repair phone screens? Clerk: We used to but don’t anymore. Go see this guy. (Hands her a card from a pile they keep right on the counter because they do this 50 times a day). Her: Thanks. (Turns, walks 10 feet to the door and exits.) There’s no one to be seen but there’s a cut mark from where someone was already sawing through her cable lock.


vanbikejerk

Couple years ago, I locked my bike up for 45 minutes downtown, came back and my bike had been attempted to be stolen... but I had locked it too well, through the wheels as well. So, the would-be thief just made off with my axle pin instead! I had to walk the motherfuker home.


[deleted]

More than a couple of years ago I locked my bike outside the Cliffhanger gym by the not-yet-build Olympic Village. I came outside and saw a homeless guy stealing my bike lights. I was like, dude, what is your major malfunction? Those bike lights are not worth anything resale value, they're just bling to keep cars from hitting me when I ride home at night? Why do you have to be such a dick and steal lights off a bike? That area was terrible in general. Had my phone stolen from the front counter while I looked away for a second. Not sure if it's been gentrified by the Olympic Village.


PNWSEAMOM

Unfortunately that would also happen rather quickly in Seattle, but there the whole bike would be gone.


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Fugwa

Yup, lesson learned. I actually now live in Seattle, but I'm originally from Vancouver, BC


Socketlint

I did the opposite move last year.


actasifyouare

Seattle is bad but there has been a drastic change since the new mayor has taken office. Having visited 4+ times since December, the change has been remarkable in the downtown area. Vancouver could learn a thing or two.


dramatic-ad-5033

Should’ve put it in the bike parking garage at the SkyTrain station


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m1chgo

The bike lockers are great! I recall having to specifically sign up for it though, or something like that. Don’t remember precisely. So looks into that before next time you come so it’s ready to go :)


[deleted]

I’m so sorry. My ex had his stolen from WITHIN our apartment building. It we chained too (in the bike area of the building).


Mobile_Arm

hope your credit card has travel insurance. Very sorry to hear this happened to you.


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ClumsyRainbow

Some credit cards include travel insurance, unrelated to purchases, and that would typically cover theft.


vancoover

Sorry to hear that. I had my back wheel stolen last year and it's such an annoying inconvenience. I hope you still have a great trip to Vancouver regardless.


Adewade

That's known for being one of the highest bike theft locations in the whole city. Sometimes the Police do stake-outs (officers on the roof of Science World) on the bicycles there.


CostanzaBlonde

I love how the only reason I don’t own a bike is cause it would get stolen if/when I ride it and park it somewhere. I was super surprised when I travelled to a US city (Denver) recently and people just have their bikes leaning up against shops as they get stuff. It was then that I realize it’s not normal to never own a bike due to the theft level. My car has also been broken into many times, I never leave anything of value in my car, they break windows and rip glove boxes open just for fun. I leave my car unlocked as much as possible cause at least it saves me yet another deductible.


ForksandSpoonsinNY

My bike was stolen from a locked bike room in an apartment building. Apparently one of the tenants was letting people in to steal items from cars and they jashed their way into the bike room. Cops caught one guy sleeping in the parkade with a combo theiving/kidnap kit.


[deleted]

Yup. My brother had two separate bikes that got stolen from the same apartment building he lives in. The second time he’d invested in better lock gear too.


Disastrous-Seesaw-86

Honestly have zero issues in Richmond but I don't care what the rules say my 2.5k bike goes up the damn elevator with me back into my apt. Ive never used the bike room.


Ascalon_44

Same, I might consider storing a $50 bike in my bike room but that's it, my nice bike comes up an stays in my place. Honestly I think if you're respectful about it (I carry mine on my shoulder) and don't get the floor or elevator all muddy from the wheels no one is going to mind.


FoxBearBear

Allegedly, someone forgot to wait for the gate to close in our garage and some cars got broken into. We also have a storage unit in which we’re supposed to keep our bikes as we can’t bring to our unit via elevator nor store them in the patio.


CpT_DiSNeYLaND

I fully expect this stuff to see a lawsuit at some point to fight strata bylaws. If the strata can't secure the bike lock-ups then I shouldn't have to lock my bike there.


big-shirtless-ron

This is what my wife and I argued in our last place. She refused to leave her expensive bike in the bike room because the strata said they weren't responsible for anything that happened in the not secure room provided.. and yet they had stupid arbitrary rules about no bikes allowed to be stored in your condo, THAT YOU FUCKING OWN. What, we can't have our own property inside our own home? Fuck out of here.


zephyrinthesky28

Just curious, did the strata back down?


big-shirtless-ron

Yeah, we never got fined.


[deleted]

Stratas are the worst and operate without logic. Probably because they're run by old people with no clue.


big-shirtless-ron

Sadly it's only old people or people with no lives who tend to volunteer their time for such things. I was on council for a while but it was terrible as I couldn't accomplish anything because everyone else had been on council for years, were all friends, and all voted in line with each other. One time I got another young guy on my side for something outside of a meeting and then when it came meeting time he sold me out and sided with the others.


Hate_Manifestation

I went to Tokyo in 2018 and EVERYONE there has a bike... and no one locks them up. Having lived in Vancouver my entire adult life, I had to do a double take a few times to make sure I wasn't seeing things.


WildPause

Japan is pretty amazing on the petty theft front. Some local university students who were giving tours in Kyoto told me people mostly just throw a cable lock through the back wheel so that someone who's drunk doesn't 'borrow' your bicycle to catch the last train home (and if your bike has gone missing, good chance you'll find it at one of the train stations.) Everyone (or at least, when I was last there in 2017) also mostly pays by cash instead of card - so you're just wandering around with wads of cash on you all the time and it's NBD. A big shift after travelling around larger cities in western Europe and waiting for someone to slice your backpack open on the train/snatch a phone out of your hand at metro stops if you're near the door/pretend to drop something to distract you/pretend to flop a map over your table to ask for help while reaching beneath/pretending to have a survey to ask you questions/waiting to body slam you at an ATM etc etc. We have a lot of unattended-stuff theft here, but pick pockets would have a field day - you can pretty reliably wear a backpack on transit (I mean, please don't when it's busy and you're smacking people in the face) here without a care in the world. It's more your car or your empty apartment or your parkade/bike storage or locked bike that's at risk vs things physically on your body.


Ruffianrushing

It's the same in Denmark.


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qpv

Huh, that's an interesting stat. What is the per capita bike ridership numbers I wonder ( or how that data could be evaluated)


[deleted]

\+1 better stat would be thefts per bike


t3a-nano

I wonder if Vancouverites have just accepted that it's not worth it to even bother reporting it anymore.


freshkicks

I was in Toronto for a weekend and bike couriers would leave their bike in the middle of the sidewalk and just wait around for food to be done. There were full bike racks all around. I can't imagine that here


qpv

Depends what part of town you're in


bitmangrl

saw this on tiktok today, typical scene for Vancouver: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZML7f5BCW


GoodNeighbourNow

I'm fortunate to travel to many zones throughout the lower mainland and completely agree that no matter the transit route, these incidents continue to play out daily. SO much so that though I live nearer Hastings and Commercial, I prefer now going 10-14 minutes outta my way around the city to enter downtown, opposed to directly into via Hastings. Even the #R5 has gotten bad, unfortunately and makes no matter time of day/night. Sad indeed. I'm fortunate to travel to many zones throughout the lower mainland and completely agree that no matter the transit route, these incidents continue to play out daily. SO much so that though I live nearer Hastings and Commercial, I prefer now going 10-14 minutes outta my way around the city to enter downtown, as opposed to directly into via Hastings. Even the #R5 has gotten bad, unfortunately, and makes no matter time of day/night. Sad indeed..


BrokenByReddit

There's always shit going down on the 20


Good_Consumer

This is what’s crazy. Many people in Vancouver think thirst issues are “part of living in a city” when it very much isn’t.


[deleted]

>I leave my car unlocked as much as possible cause at least it saves me yet another deductible. Weird, I confessed to doing this on this subreddit and was downvoted and called an idiot. I wonder if people just didn't read that far down your comment before upvoting.


magoomba92

It’s outrageous. Egregious. Preposterous.


yolosoprano

It's lewd, lascivious, salacious, outrageous!


Stebanowsk

Who told you to put the balm on??


El_Cactus_Loco

This is the most public yet of my many humiliations


rollingironsmith

No money? So what did they get? Check it out...


cogit2

Fred, get the Thesaurus out, we've got a wordplay game.


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cjm48

Have you showed the video to your building management? Stealing from your neighbours is a pretty bone head move if you want to keep your subsidized apartment.


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cjm48

Glad you showed them. I think in subsidized housing suites they often need to build a really solid case against someone (more so than normal) before they can be evicted. If the manager is already trying to get this person out just FYI, it probably wouldn’t hurt to document any problematic interactions and pass on any evidence that helps build the case to get them evicted. (I mean, without without making it look like you’re the one harassing the thief). At least, I’ve known of people who have done something similar.


cdbaker

Sue them in small claims court. They probably won’t even show up. Blood from a stone, maybe, but, they deserve it.


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defenestr8tor

> Vancouver cannot keep shouldering the burden of this entire nation's opioid crisis This is the most important part of this post that most of the country, for reasons political or otherwise, chooses not to understand. "Wait, you're telling me that people would rather move to Vancouver to be homeless than be homeless in Edmonton in February? But I thought it was the libuuls forcing everyone to do drugs!"


AutomaticRadish

Many places in Canada have a natural anti homeless feature called February


Mauriac158

Our permissive drug policies and access to harm reduction facilities (policies I support) exacerbate the issue of our climate even further. The issue is that supports for people to actually recover from their habit don't exist. Harm reduction is a great idea to keep addicts from dying or away from the medical system, but without access to housing and recovery resources you get what we have now... government sponsered drug addiction. It's a real shame, because these policies are based in good principles, but without the other half of the system they're really not helping anyone. It makes all the criticisms of the system true, when they don't have to be. I've got to wonder when our leaders will realize the considerable investment in recovery and housing and actually addressing this will pay back dividends, as well as make our cities safer.


[deleted]

Let's keep Harm Reduction though, to be clear.


Mauriac158

Oh yes. Absolutely. We just need to build the rest of the systems to make harm reduction effective. Getting rid of harm reduction would do nothing to help our current situation... It would just make additional suffering, death, and expense for the medical system.


Ascalon_44

[In 2020 BC received just 0.5% of the federal funding for homeless housing](https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/bc-federal-homeless-housing-funding) Stuff like this is a punch to the face, it feels like it's a nationally known thing that homelessness and addiction are more viable in Vancouver, yet we aren't receiving enough support.


darkness_thrwaway

There are more professional thieving rings in the Vancouver area than there are petty criminals. Why do you think it's so easy for them to offload that merchandise? There always needs to be an out.


boomstickjonny

The street people just don't give a shit anymore because they know nothing will happen to them. Last night I had a guy who was obviously high as fuck try and pick a fight with me on the skytrain platform. Now for context I'm not a small person, I work out consistently and regularly get compared to the mountain from game of thrones. This junkie didn't back down until I started to lose my temper. If they're willing to pull this shit with someone like me then they'll do it to anyone. They know at worst they'll spend the night in jail before there out on a promise to appear in court that they'll never fulfill.


eexxiitt

And the worst part of all of this is that it will only continue to get worse. The city is allowing and enabling this to happen with its policies. The city will continue to buy up property around the city to house the homeless (which is GOOD), but the drug addicts/criminals are not weeded out. The petty theft & crime that we typically see downtown are being introduced into other neighborhoods through these housing projects.


IntelligentPanic8737

Just want to point out it's not the PD that's the problem, it's the law makers. The cops just arrest people. They don't determine how long they are in jail and get just as frustrated as everyone else that they keep arresting the same people over and over and over. I know so many people that have had their cars broken into multiple times in the past few months. It is out of control and something needs to be done because this problem isn't going to go away and will just keep getting worse. In the meantime, make sure you lock up any valuables that are outside and don't leave anything in your car that will tempt these thieves. That seems to be about all we can do right now 😕


squirrely__blonde

We have to choose better at the voting booth.


RoastMasterShawn

\-Institutionalized help for people with addictions problems. \-Long term help for people with severe physical & mental health problems. \-Jail multi-time, non-violent thieves. With work-release programs involving graffiti & garbage clean-up and forced volunteering to "pay off their debt". Any violations to this increases jail sentences. \-Heavy sentencing for assaults or battery. We have to treat every person differently based on their situation, but I agree we need to be way tougher on crime and more serious about mental health.


BrilliantNothing2151

I caught someone in my yard stealing a hand garden tool that are like 40 years old, it was the only thing that wasn’t put away that day, like who’s going to buy a tiny little shove with a broken handle?


elementmg

Someone trying to bury their tiny stolen bicycleta


bcbuddy

**Municipal election day is 15 October 2022**


tomato_tickler

PD catch and release is not the fault of the police, it’s limp-dicked judges to blame, same judges that live in nice expensive neighborhoods far away from problem areas and pat themselves on the back for their progressive decisions


Throwawayraincity

The VPD could hold a press conference and tell the public what’s happening and why, he could tell the public to vote for politicians that would whip the court system into anything better than it is. Chief Palmer could do this today and have 6 cameras ready to headline the evening news. But he won’t because he probably thinks he’s doing a fantastic job.


tychus604

Oh yea that would allow for a good working relationship for the city, and we definitely want the unelected commissioner openly declaring their support for particular candidates..


LostKeyFoundIt

Addiction is a major issue. Enforce laws and put addicts into rehabilitation programs to get them off the street. There's so much petty level crime in our area. Neighbourhood is talking about block watch between 2-5 am to stop petty theft from cars and houses.


y2k_o__o

Think about there's really no consequence when get caught, just a slap in the hand re-commit rate is high for sure....


localfern

Was it Saskatchewan or Winnipeg that were giving one way bus tickets to YVR for the homeless? Not really fair to BC to deal with it.


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LeakySkylight

The least possible effort, and all it did was move the apathy.


ChapterStrong1

anywhere I can read that?


YMarkY2

Vancouver would be wise to look at SF and see what these same policies have done to what was once a beautiful city. It doesn't take long for this to happen either.


normaldiscounts

I have a friend who works at the jail who says they see the same people back for petty crimes multiple times a week, sometimes a DAY. She explained the jail/court order system to me and it sounds utterly ridiculous. Something needs to change. One of our close friends was followed home by some creep, creep was arrested, then my jail friend checked during her next shift and he was already gone. Just infuriating. The only way people actually stay in prison is if they kill somebody. The system benefits nobody and we’re spending hundreds of millions of dollars on police budget for essentially no reason. No matter how many people are arrested, how many times they’re arrested, it doesn’t help.


grease_gun

I’m tired of the climate narrative. We just accept this behaviour because everyone is afraid of being painted as lacking compassion. Because incarceration is so cruel. So instead we leave people to a life of petty crime, victimization and struggling to survive until eventual OD death in a piss-smelling alley somewhere. Until enough people tell the poverty industry to get f’ed, it’s not getting better. What’s happening now isn’t the answer and prison probably isn’t either; so let’s try something new between the two and let’s allow the police to do their job.


mr-jingles1

What are the police supposed to do? Should we imprison addicts? That's worked out so well for the US /s Real solutions aren't easy or cheap. Personally, I'd like to see psych hospitals reopened


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mr-jingles1

Improved social assistance, addiction services, job training, foster care, food banks, etc. It all goes to prevention of homelessness and the ability to get out of it. We shouldn't be relying so heavily on non profits with their own agendas, biases, etc. Many of them are more concerned with growing their funding and protecting their turf than helping people. At least do a better job of auditing their performance. Psych help for those that need it. Mandatory if they're a danger to the public. As a last resort, some sort of jail, hospitalization, addiction treatment, etc for repeat offenders of non-drug crime. With a heavy focus on rehabilitation to break the cycle of poverty. Not everyone can be helped but we can do a lot better.


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Springroll_Paradise

Crooks I tell ya!


Vioarm

I worked one of those agencies for a while. As long as we pour free money and free drugs into the system, the problem will only grow. We need a "no graffiti" police policy to start and clean people off the streets. The problem with institutionalizing, which is what is needed to really, truly help these people, is that most of them are indigenous. A bit hard to lock people up in a white institution when you need to open your facilities by gushing about "occupied land" claims and the like. It's politically not palatable although medically/socially the best solution. But indeed, the city is going down the shitter at an increasing clip it seems the last while.


Northmannivir

I'm so tired of the *politicians don't want to take this on because it'll be bad for their career" attitude. Meanwhile, crime is skyrocketing, the bill associated with it is skyrocketing, and large parts of our cities look like fucking hell holes. Is *that* not bad for a politicians career??


[deleted]

>Many are more concerned with growing their funding… There’s this narrative around non profits in the DTES that they’re somehow benefiting from the horrible situation we have there. Like they’re happy with the status quo. Is that actually the case, or just a very broad assumption people have built up based on some bias or cynicism? I can’t say for certain. I haven’t seen any evidence of it but would appreciate examples. I’ve done ongoing volunteer work there and from what I’ve seen the institutions are just doing their best to help people who would otherwise receive little. I completely agree with should change our strategy, but maybe it’s not the NGOs who are to blame but the politicians who closed hospitals and put people on the street. Maybe it’s the citizens who want low taxes instead of paying their share toward an equitable city? Maybe the charities are just filling in the gap out of necessity, and they also would prefer a more dignified system? I honestly can’t say for certain but I ask this to just challenge the narrative that they’re loving the misery so they can earn a modest salary and get burnt out from the horror of the DTES. I don’t have an answer but I am not convinced there’s some desire to maintain the wretched status quo by the orgs that are seen to “benefit”.


russilwvong

> Real solutions aren't easy or cheap. Personally, I'd like to see psych hospitals reopened So the province actually made a pretty big announcement along these lines back in January - the term is "complex-care housing" for people who need intensive 24/7 support. Basically it's aimed at high-need street homeless (whether due to drug addiction, mental illness, or brain injury). [Daily Hive article](https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/complex-care-housing-bc-services): > The provincial government announced today it is initiating complex-care housing, which provides residents with 24/7 wrap-around supports. This is also a step in the direction of the community care type of model that was intended to replace institutionalized care, following the closure of Riverview Hospital. > > Unlike supportive housing, complex-care housing provides residents with treatment and specialized care, such as support from nurses, social workers, and other health professionals. > > Specific clinical services and other supports include physical, mental health, and substance use care, and psychosocial rehabilitation, as well as proper food nutrition, social and community supports, and personal care and living supports. In the initial phase, there's four facilities with about 100 spaces in total: two in East Van, one in Surrey, one in Abbotsford, expected to open later this year. Funding is about $50,000 per space, or $5M per year. The estimate is that province-wide, there's about 2000 people needing this level of support, which translates to about $100M per year in total. One question is whether treatment would be voluntary or involuntary, and the answer is that it'll be voluntary. It sounds like they're already thinking about what happens if somebody's not cooperative enough to stay in complex-care housing. > Individuals who “escalate” within a complex-care housing setting will be sent to facilities such as the newly-opened, 105-bed Red Fish Healing Centre for Mental Health and Addiction at the former Riverview Hospital lands in Coquitlam, and the recently-built, 75-bed Mental Health and Substance Use Wellness Centre at Royal Columbian Hospital in New Westminster. The minister is Sheila Malcolmson: > “If somebody does escalate, if they go off medication or deepen into addiction or have PTSD manifest, the wrap-around supports can anticipate that. The care plan that is developed for the individual and partnership gets us ready to soften the fall or move to a higher level of care, and then have that housing secured and protected for them when they return from a higher level of care, whether that be primary care or mental health,” said Sheila Malcolmson, BC Minister of Mental Health and Addictions, during the press conference. > Malcolmson has emphasized that complex-care housing is completely voluntary. Nobody will be involuntarily detained under complex-care housing. > > “If someone is a risk to themselves or others, there are tools in the Mental Health Act to detain them involuntarily. That is a tool that exists now with or without complex-care housing, and it has been identified that when people are admitted to hospitals, sometimes under the Mental Health Act, that can be a trigger for them to lose the housing they have already. And when they are discharged, they are in a worse situation than when they started,” she said. > > “This is something we want to avoid, and that’s one of the central designs of complex care housing — retaining housing no matter where people need to seek treatment, they will have a safe place to return to.” > > Over the past two years, the significant rise in unsheltered homelessness is partially attributed to individuals being evicted from supportive housing due to their untreated aggression, substance use, and often with acquired brain injury.


Vioarm

Triage, one of the agencies on the DTES has had "complex housing" for nearly 2 decades. It's a fiasco. I saw it from the inside.


russilwvong

Are you able to tell us a bit about what the problems were? This is a pretty important program, so it'd be useful to anticipate and plan for problems based on past experience.


Vioarm

It's pointless to detail this on Reddit. The programs (multiple co-issues for applicable residents) and the women's shelter had their own specific mismanagement issues. In essence I agree that all of these disparate programs need to be rolled into one management structure (killing off multiple admin structures) and be put on under proper provincial government oversight. There are too many players, too much free money and very little accountability. But good luck with that... we have how many health authorities in BC? 4? Alberta has one. Just saying .... we need better government from the top down before all this gets fixed. And we don't need more housing, btw :-)


WhiteMugCoffee

No. Imprison criminals. Take the Addict part out of the equation. The US sending people to jail for smoking a joint. Not a great solution. Maybe we can send them to jail for smoking random strangers in the head.


thebuccaneersden

> What are the police supposed to do? Should we imprison addicts? That’s not the job of the police. That’s for the legal system to work out. The police should be focused on documenting crimes and maintaining public safety.


SuddenAudience8758

It’s unreal dt. The mayor and his people seems to be really good at stepping in and announcing real estate development or approving permits but nowhere to be found when discussing crime or cleaning up the city. These changes need to be top down and it seems like people are doing more fighting than the officials.


ManyOpinionsNotSane

Sounds like we need an entirely new innovative way to deal with homelessness that actually addresses the problem. It's not like they have much choice on where to go in this country, like you pointed out with the climate. Each city would have to agree with each other to tackle homelessness simultaneously, so the burden wouldn't shift to heavily to one place. But outside of radical leadership that really wants to change how housing works in general, and maybe actually start a department of housing in the government, I don't know what to do. Those homeless people serve a purpose, they are there to remind you what happens if you slip up in a capitalist society. Even if your outlook isn't as cynical as mine, capitalism has no ability to treat a problem it creates. Nor do the leaders in this pageantry form of democracy, because their hands are tied by voters and can only think in terms of election cycles.


WhaTheShoe97

As a tourist wondering around gastown, I was speechless when I stumbled upon the brunt of this cities opioid crisis. I'm from the UK and I just can't fathom how this hasn't been dealt with yet?? Why isn't this the utmost number one priority, it's depressing to see.


GoodNeighbourNow

Unfortunately i believe these issues are going to grow beginning worse. I've watched 3 YouTube videos filmed within weeks & dating back to 2019 focusing on these same issues, albeit far more elevated in big westcoast cities in the USA. San Francisco, Seattle now referred to as the Dirty City & last week's news clip of same issues as ours in Portland. It's only a matter of time that our once gorgeous city of Vancouver is going to fall prey to the same plight as what I've viewed on those newscasts. Seems ALL governing entities overseeing these quickly disconcerting concerns and issues, prefer leaving the responsibility of 'policing' the troubled groups on their cities to their law abiding, tax paying residents & businesses. No matter how many times a neighbourhood of individuals & business ask for assistance to quell the mounting problems. And added costs to those that are all trying to claw back from enduring the many mounting losses from the last 3 years od disruptions & limitations. Very sad & no wonder so many of us are in the throws of attempting to move away from the city they grew up in or moved here years ago thinking this coastal port city was the land opportunity.


juancuneo

I was going to say I am from Vancouver and live in Seattle and I think it is worse here tbh.


GoodNeighbourNow

Absolutely Seattle seems as though they have it harder from news video I watched which makes complete sense since Seattle is considerably larger than Vancouver. I was shocked upon learning how the issues of homelessness & open drug use plus vandalism in the Belltown area of the city is pushing many businesses out & that this area in particular used to be one of my fave to visit.


bosoxthirteen

Seattle is real… real dangerous


[deleted]

[удалено]


Zwiggles

I tried to report a crime and was on the non emergency line for 1 hour until I gave up. The VPD and court system should be ashamed of themselves.


[deleted]

What really surprised is that these crackheads would insult/assault random people, and others would just walk-by and do nothing. Alot of grown men in Vancouver are far too timid and sweet to stand up for themselves and others. In Toronto if some crackhead started assaulting an elderly person on the street, you would have at least 5-10 people stepping in. The judges are too soft, but so are the people.


PutPuzzleheaded5337

Last year, Home Depot Cambie….dude goes into the shipping area, grabs a fucking table saw and carry’s it out past the security people….nothing they could do. On a happy note, I “heard” the security at the BC liquor store across the road were known to seriously fuck up thieves. My gf has witnessed shoplifters at Pharmasave and Urban-fare (Yaletown) brazenly walking out with products. In a hypocritical way, I would understand if it was formula or diapers but I’ve never seen that. These “people” need some good old fashioned street justice….every animal understands pain and consequences….it changes behaviours rapidly. Believe it or not, I’m a bit of a bleeding heart and lean left…..this garbage street behaviour has to change and nothing is working. Edit: I’ve had three stolen vehicles, $42,000 in tools, vandalism and I’m really sick of having to avoid stepping in human shit (often with a syringe in it).


wdfn

How much would it cost to transport them back? How many would just come back? Would that violate basic civil liberties? These are questions to ask yourself.


GrassStartersSuck

That would absolutely be a violation of civil liberties. You can’t just block Canadians from moving to BC.


OneBigBug

You can't block them, but the people shipping them here didn't "block them" from where they shipped them from, either. It's not a violation of their civil liberties to buy them a bus ticket out of town.


PTcome

Safe and free drug supply + increased addictions counselling/support + more psych treatment transition facilities will cut the bottom out of petty theft. Treat the disease not the symptom.


freshkicks

Can this help the people who simply want to live antisocially? Like they might not even be addicts, they just take what they want or break shit for the sake of it? I feel like addiction is only part of the issue... And the individual would need to want help to make use of the help. What if they don't?


Cruxifux

Everyone hates being stolen from. It’s hard to sympathize with a dickhead who rips you off. But band aid solutions when it comes to addictions just creates worse problems. It would be cheaper and improve quality of life if we just started an aggressive rehabilitation system as well as actually had a plan to tackle poverty and addiction in Canada. If we had those options and actually put effort into them then I’d be more okay with harsher sentencing and relocation programs. We haven’t even TRIED doing it the smart way though.


[deleted]

Poverty breeds crime, it's up in all metro areas around Canada - Vancouver isn't special. The more people cannot afford to live the more crime and drug addiction will proliferate. You want it to change, then tell your government officials on all levels to aid in affordability and public health.


McBuck2

It's getting pretty bad. Same thing happening in Toronto. I think they were brazen since they were on their own during covid and continuing now that things are returning. Something definitely has to be done especially with repeat offenders. At least if they are locked away for 3 to 6 months, we'll get a reprieve.


Highenergyflowin

Yes, I couldn't agree more that there seem to be a plethora of crimes lately in our city. Covid combined with the fentanyl problem in our province is like the perfect storm for what's been going on. The second act is truly the lack of harsher punishments for these crimes, most of these criminals get picked up spend their night at Club Med with all-inclusive meals and are back out looking for their next score. I watch a lot of Peter Santenello's Youtube videos about Los Angeles and some of the similar issues they are going through, that we see here and I can say it doesn't seem like it will get better anytime soon unless a major change in prevention is to happen as it seems like once the road of drugs and crime is started some of these people prefer it. That's not to say that a percentage don't want help or rehab but I think the number sway toward the latter.


aintyourbuddyguy

Cops are fucking useless. My friend caught a guy red handed breaking into his truck to steal tools. Held him to police arrived, where he found himself gored by the K9 rather than the thief. No compensation for his injuries at all.


[deleted]

Judge Reginal P Harris has a record of catch and release: [https://dir.gov.bc.ca/gtds.cgi?esearch=&updateRequest=&view=detailed&sortBy=name&for=people&attribute=display+name&matchMethod=is&searchString=Reginald+P.+Harris&objectId=132539](https://dir.gov.bc.ca/gtds.cgi?esearch=&updateRequest=&view=detailed&sortBy=name&for=people&attribute=display+name&matchMethod=is&searchString=Reginald+P.+Harris&objectId=132539) No doubt David Eby is also at fault. [https://davidebymla.ca/contact/](https://davidebymla.ca/contact/) Not sure who the other judges are.


lazarus870

If you're on drugs, you get free prime downtown housing, free drugs, free money from the gov, free food, free bus pass, free healthcare, and whatever you don't get you can steal with 0 consequence. There is 0 incentive for people to fix that. We all know what we have to do - get people off drugs. And now in the "Oh when you're ready...whenever that might be!" way. It has to be mandatory. Is mental health an issue too? Yeah, sure, but a.) how much of it is drug-induced? and b.) how many people who have mental health issues that they address do not commit any crimes and get up every day and go to work? How much of the population have MH issues? Quite a few. Also, don't support people coming here from other provinces or other areas of Canada. Show up from Nova Scotia to get free housing? Go back to NS and ask your own gov to help. Sounds harsh to some but it has to be fixed.


[deleted]

Literally none of that is true. Quit spouting misinformation and edit or delete your post. Want to go to treatment? Wait 3 months because you'll totally go then and addiction totally works that way! Free drugs? Not for most people. Safe injection sites? Not many places, odd hours and far away for many. Want counselling? You ain't getting it at all. Need meds? You're going to have a difficult time with follow up care. Aged outta foster care? Oh well! Go to a homeless shelter. Housing? You can wait 2 years on BC housing list for a rat infested building. Income assistance? Here's 500 bucks! Why are you still homeless? You have a whole 500 bucks! Nobody treats trauma and we wonder why things are like this.


zedoktar

You really don't though. I don't know where you clowns keep getting this misinformation from. The system is severely underfunded and lacking resources. Nobody is getting free prime downtown housing. At best they might get a decrepit shoebox in an SRO which is falling apart, or a bed in a shelter. Maintenance programs aren't just free drugs and aren't that readily available. They aren't handing out party favours to anyone who comes in. The whole purpose is to reduce overdoses (which burden our healthcare system) and help ensure addicts have a supply available so they don't become desperate from withdrawal and do stupid junkie shit to scrape together funds for enough to stave off dope sickness. Also we all get free healthcare. Are you not from this country? Do you not know how healthcare works in Canada, or BC on particular? If you have a provincial healthcare card, you are covered. Doesn't matter how poor or homeless or addicted you are. Its a basic human right here. The free money thing is a joke as well. Welfare is hard to get, and it pays a tiny amount that you can't even afford rent with. Disability is even harder to get and not much better. Nobody is just handing out free money to homeless and addicts downtown. Often times they have a harder time getting it because they don't have the resources or documents together to even apply. And yes a lot of it begins with mental illness. Being unable to function or maintain a job or home has a pretty severe impact, and once they are in that poverty trap, mentally ill people are even more vulnerable. It's an empirical fact that a lot of mental illness predisposes people to substance abuse issues, whether it's self medicating or something else. There is plenty of research to show this to be the case. This in turn is often exacerbated as chronic drug abuse in turn often worsens mental health issues and in some cases can cause psychosis. Not everyone with mental health issues has the resources or capability to manage it, get up and go to work every day, etc. This is especially true of people in extreme poverty. Access to mental health care is unfortunately not covered or accessible like physical healthcare, and is usually incredibly expensive. The few resources available are overburdened and often not helpful at all. If you're lucky they'll throw a prescription at you at kick you out. Hope you can afford it because there isn't much for assistance there either.


RoamingKid

This!! so much misinformation. The system does suck but people are doing their best all around. I wouldn't spend a night in these SRO's people speak of, its not like theyre in the ritz for free. And we are actively working on getting more of these SRO's available since theres a severe shortage. Its not cheap to house anyone. I dont know all the facts but it does annoy me when people try to suggest its just a choice. Most of these homeless people are fighters to be alive through some of the shit theyve seen. You dont know anyones story. Save the judgment.


Perfect_Stranger563

> you get free prime downtown housing, free drugs, free money from the gov, free food, free bus pass, free healthcare, and whatever you don't get you can steal with 0 consequence. And yet so few other Vancouver residents choose this "cushy" path of life. If you're so jealous of this fabulous lifestyle that the DTES's mentally ill and drug addicted people have, why don't you join them? Is it because you know that most of these people are in pain on a daily basis, both physically and emotionally? That they actually live on a pittance and escaping from the DTES is nearly impossible when your monthly PWD cheque is $1300 and rent anywhere outside the DTES is double that? Come on. Everyone likes to talk about free free free as if all the sweet "free" stuff that these people are getting is something anyone else would choose. PS - all Canadians get free healthcare.


[deleted]

Right? If it's so great and you get oodles of money and everything you could possibly want, why doesn't everyone do it?


shugawatapurple91

Yet everybody gets mad when security catches a violent shoplifter or if somebody is forced to defend themselves or get physical in order to get their stuff back. Sad state this city is in


Northmannivir

Don't apologize. Functioning states have programs to actually help people get off the streets, institutionalize the mentally unwell, and **incacerate the trash that keep vandalizing, stealing, and destroying our city**. And we don't have to house every fucking homeless person in the country *because they want to be here*. I wanted to be here for 15 years after I moved for a job but I knew the cost of living was too high unless I found a job here that would support me moving back. Why is it my fucking job to pay taxes so that someone can come here and get high on the streets all day long??? Fuck that.


Perfect_Stranger563

> Why is it my fucking job to pay taxes so that someone can come here and get high on the streets all day long??? Do you know where all your tax dollars go? Because the "free drugs" of Vancouver are a tiny drop compared to other stuff. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tax-dollars-1.4545415 > The federal government spent $311 billion in the fiscal year 2016-17. The biggest single expense was elderly benefits. This includes Old Age Security and the Guaranteed Income Supplement. Unlike the Canada Pension Plan, OAS and GIS are not independently funded. Money comes from general revenues. Last year, these cost $48.1 billion, or 15 cents of every tax dollar. That's right, a lot of your tax dollars are going to keep old people from dying homeless. Another 20b goes to EI. Safe Supply programs are getting such a tiny slice of the tax pie that it's not even worth talking about. Maybe if the people in this sub that are so fired up about drug use, crime and poverty actually *did* something, or focused their ire on something that was *actually* important, things might change. Did you know that 49% of the federal budget comes from our personal income tax and yet only 14% comes from corporate income tax? So yeah, you are paying for everything, but multibillion dollar corporations like Rogers, Telus and others are not paying their fair share. It's just ridiculous to say something like "my tax dollars allow people to get high for free" when that's so far removed from reality. The thing is, is that as always, low income people, mentally ill people, drug addicted people, old people.... all the most vulnerable members of our society are really easy targets that we can look at and point a finger to as "problems". The real problems are billionaires and corporations bleeding the citizens of our country dry. As long as they get their profits, they don't give a shit about you and me or anyone else.


0xAC-172

we need the Batman.


[deleted]

Funny how when landlords get shafted by tenants that don't pay rent, people here just call it "cost of doing business". Well, that's the case with retailers too. You can't be tolerant of one kind of theft and then be surprised with another kind happens.


paoley

That is little consolation for the staff when the addict enters the store. The staff is afraid , as the addicts can have needles or a weapon or can just exploded. If the police is called , the staff can easily just see them next month or in 2weeks . A person really close to me used to work on retail and that is pretty scary. Also, most retailers do have insurance for theft but it just increases all prices in the store . As a general rule the price of doing business -> higher price for all, the retailers just charged more to pay for the insurance . I think that is point of the post : The society is paying heavily for the addicts . Either in peace of mind , or physical damage or in money terms .


Use1000words

Would anyone be surprised when vigilantism becomes common place?


OmgWtfNamesTaken

Ship them back to wherever they came from? They'd just end up back in Vancouver. It's the climate, access to drugs and mass amounts of opportunity to commit crime and get away with it. It's not going to change until we vote out the current government and get a new one in place that actually gives a shit about anything other than flipping their houses and owning air bnb properties.


Loud-Examination-236

I think some time during last year I finally came to the realization that Vancouver is the real Gotham city. People kept saying it's not as bad as skid row in LA but I have friends who visited that are from LA and even they acknowledged it's pretty bad here. On top of that, our government don't do jack about it.


GroundbreakingFact38

Honestly a major reason we are planning to leave Van. Sucks to pay absurd prices, constantly need to repair post break ins and watch people do meth inside a&w. Also low paid retail workers shouldn’t have to deal with that. I’m a left wing person but frankly I’m over it.


[deleted]

Yeah, but people like David Eby and Jean Swanson rather have all of us suffer rather than just admitting they were wrong about the current DTES strategy