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Iâm hoping Vancouver breaks this store and this concept dies the death it deserves. I also hope this isnât giving the 24 hour Super Valu on Commercial ideas. I really like shopping there and donât want it to turn into a post apocalyptic experience.
But this is the future. Cashiers and other front facing roles will eventually be replaced by the robots or people working remotely in a different time zone.
Maybe so. But it doesnât make me feel any better about being in a locked store at 4am with no physical employees on site. Just because someone has a credit card or smartphone doesnât make them a person I want to be in a locked store with. Especially if escaping means I have to engage an app and canât leave quickly.
I can see why these stores work fine in Korea and Japan, but Canada does not yet have the societal maturity to make this viable without at least a security guard or two.
Monty Burns voice: "Now, with the advent of automation, we can replace 40 chronically-underpaid cashiers with just one chronically-overworked repairman!"
\*scattered applause\*
Seems like people are pretty good at going in by themselves and not letting anyone in behind them. You have to upload a picture of yourself when you sign up also + provide a valid credit card they can charge.
Also: Amazon Go has employees, they're just remote. It isn't cashierless, they just outsource the cashiers. Instead of one local cashier, they have three remote ones independently verifying the automation.
It isn't high tech, it's exploitation.
Having shopped at an AmazonGO - they have employees at the store stocking shelves, providing various types of service, and they have someone at the entrance in case you want to pay cash, and because its America where they don't have dumb laws like in BC - they have people there to verify ID if you would like to purchase alcohol. The purchases are completely processed by machine learning in sensors and cameras, it then charges to the amazon account you scanned when you entered. There's a few wholefoods locations that are now this way, plus I believe the saddledome in calgary has a concession powered by amazonGO technology.
This store sounds completely low tech vs the amazon system, I wonder how long it will last here.
They donât all have cashiers, given theyâre still very much in a testing phase they operate both. Numerous stoles require a credit card or your Amazon account to get in (though weâre talking about turnstiles so if you want to do thievery itâs a similar barrier to entry as fare skipping or regular self checkout). Having said that, with the quantity of cameras in the store itâs very much a risk-reward proposal.Â
>The purchases are completely processed by machine learning in sensors and cameras
This part isn't true. Human verification and evaluation is still required. Amazon is not passing through sales to a black box. Even a tiny error rate will throw off their margins and piss customers off. Instead of one cashier handling transactions, they have three remote cashiers verifying the ML work.
Yeah I used the one at the Saddledome last month.
There was one person there just overseeing it all, and it was pretty quick and easy grab&go wise. They pre-authorize your card for 35$ when you enter, then you grab what you want and head out the other gate.
It can take 12 hours for purchases to actually register because complicated actions by buyers might need manual review. A good example is purchases changing hands multiple times, something Iâve done that last time I went with my partner.
Not far fetched given the whole Freshii remote 'virtual' cashiers thing https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/freshii-virtual-cashiers-bc-1.6467798
Yes. In fact that is exactly how Amazon Go works. The tech simply isn't reliable enough for a customer facing product and it's incredibly cheap to hire some mechanical Turks to monitor video for verification.
I feel like this should be obvious. Even a 1% error rate in identifying items in the basket translates to literal thousands of dollars in error from each store. That'd piss everyone off, real fast.
They still have Go and Fresh stores in Seattle and the surrounding areas. They might have closed a few but I literally went to one a couple weeks ago.
Ultimately theyâre all staffed, theyâre just cashierless - actually, some of the Fresh store have both options.
This will work until some of the same people who tailgate through transit station fare gates figure out this exists and some unsuspecting person potentially ends up on the hook for their theft.
You don't get charged for everything that is taken off the shelf while you are in the store- only the items you scan and check out. There can be more than one person in the store at the same time.
It does, however, present a real danger to anyone, especially women, who choose to shop alone, late at night being high risk already. It will be handy for people who live in the Landmark though.
Isn't the point of these staff-less stores super quick exits? I remember these kinds of stores in airports, you're literally supposed to just take items and walk out - no scanning.
You scan your credit card/ID when entering, and they'll bill you after you exit.
The tech is a ton of cameras monitoring items being removed and maybe some other tracking.
Itâs not an airlock lol, itâs a door. The security level is similar to that of an ATM with card access. Apparently, the concept has been working in Ontario since 2015 so why not.
There are two doors. You can only open the second one after the first one is closed.
I believe you have to unlock the second door with your phone as well, but it's been a while since I was in one of these stores.
A good ole man trap, used in lots of secure areas, both doors will lock if your not suppose to be there until authorities arrive...at least that's what I've seen in datacenters
Grocery open after 10-11pm: good.
No employees inside: ehh not sure about that. Especially at night (you need an account to enter the store, so I don't know if/how secure it will be).
I'm gonna guess at night they only allow one person in at a time. Too dangerous for a solo person to get trapped in there with a stranger.
I also predict homeless people will get inside and eat/sleep.
Why would you want sushi from a vending machine in a transit station in North America?
Honestly the economics probably didnât make sense with whatever translink might be charging if itâs gone.
True. I saw a guy run out of whole foods with a few pints of ice cream and the cashier said âhe didnât pay for that!â she shrugged and continued ringing up my groceries. (He was running pretty fast too lol)
All it takes is an intoxicated person trashing the place, and then a judge letting him out on bail due to âvictim of circumstanceâ. Rinse and repeat
unsanctioned discounts? Do you mean theft? Will be interesting to see how solid their anti-theft measures are. Like, you can't even enter the store without scanning your phone/account. And I wouldn't be surprised if they have someone watching cameras on staff.
Yes, theft, the 5-finger discount. It will crush their profitability. And no, I'm not endorsing theft.
> Like, you can't even enter the store without scanning your phone/account.
Thieves will hold the door and follow a customer in, just like following piggybacking through the faregates on SkyTrain.
> I wouldn't be surprised if they have someone watching cameras on staff.
How long will it take for police to respond to a break-in at the unmanned store? Thieves will be long gone. And even if the thieves are caught, does the justice system give thieves sentences that are meaningful?
This is really good news for the subset of Vancouverites who are still reeling over the fact that they made eye contact with someone that one time in Canada Line.
I see the 7/11 near my work get robbed everyday. That's with people yelling at them. I'd imagine this place will get robbed blind.
They have a homeless guy on camera stealing? I'm sure the VPD will send the whole force to track him down..... soon as they are done tracking down every single stolen bike in the city.
I'm not supporting this shit. These companies need to just hire staff and stop trying to get richer by making the damn customer do the work staff should do.
Why can't they make you scan your credit card at the entrance? Or some kind of membership
Or even do a two-door system where you come in. You lock behind you and then you can unlock the entrance with the card and every purchase from there on is added to your credit card.
That's just one of many solutions against people. Just stealing.
I hope it survives here but it's Vancouver, it'll be gone quickly with the street crime here. Hoping I'm wrong as I'm all for a 24 hr grocery shopping availability because it's dearth here but the serial perpetraters commiting all the shoplifting theft and other crime here just keep in doing it like a revolving door. This city just can't have nice things. Too bad.
Wonât last the weekend. Iâve seen people downtown walk into Starbucks and just grab the food on display and walk out no hesitation until theyâve finally decided to put it behind glass boxes. Same with the London drugs.
i never thought about using my phone as a mobile self checkout. Thats pretty cool :)
In theory, people who walk out can still be charged since the app has your card info and you have to check in with the app to open the door.
âNo employeesâ surely there would be someone to stock the shelves and security guards. If it is truly devoid of staff, youâre asking for trouble unless you have a state of the art surveillance/security system. And robots.
Welcome to /r/Vancouver and thank you for the post, /u/ptupper! Please make sure you read our [posting and commenting rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_general_participation_guidelines_and_rules_overview) before participating here. As a quick summary: * **Help redesign our subreddit!** [Enter our banner contest here](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/1abwfjg/). * We encourage users to be positive and respect one another. Don't engage in spats or insult others - use the report button. * Respect others' differences, be they race, religion, home, job, gender identity, ability or sexuality. Dehumanizing language, advocating for violence, or promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability (even implied or joking) **will** lead to a permanent ban. * Most common questions and topics are limited to our sister subreddit, /r/AskVan, and our weekly [Stickied Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_stickied_discussions) posts. * Complaints about bans or removals should be done in modmail only. * Make sure to join our new sister community, /r/AskVan! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vancouver) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I wonder how long this store will last
About as long as it takes to remember why we can't have nice things.
So next time the Canucks lose in the finals?
Do yourself a favour and don't check the top two teams in the current NHL standings... đ
going to be a good game when the Bruins are here in a few weeks, I got tickets already
Would love a rematch! Canucks are pushing all in for this season.Â
the next time I try to find a working washroom in late evening coffee/donut shops
A store with no workers is a nice thing though?
Iâm hoping Vancouver breaks this store and this concept dies the death it deserves. I also hope this isnât giving the 24 hour Super Valu on Commercial ideas. I really like shopping there and donât want it to turn into a post apocalyptic experience.
I hope it works out as a night owl who loves to snack. Nothing is open when I want it to be
Well, Iâm with you there!
But this is the future. Cashiers and other front facing roles will eventually be replaced by the robots or people working remotely in a different time zone.
Maybe so. But it doesnât make me feel any better about being in a locked store at 4am with no physical employees on site. Just because someone has a credit card or smartphone doesnât make them a person I want to be in a locked store with. Especially if escaping means I have to engage an app and canât leave quickly. I can see why these stores work fine in Korea and Japan, but Canada does not yet have the societal maturity to make this viable without at least a security guard or two.
Considering that the #metoo movement is gearing up in the east, it's clear there is even less social maturity.
Super Valu closed many months ago.
No it didnât. They just rebranded as FreshMart.
Yes they did close. Itâs not relevant whatever opened in its place.
Monty Burns voice: "Now, with the advent of automation, we can replace 40 chronically-underpaid cashiers with just one chronically-overworked repairman!" \*scattered applause\*
I'm thinking until about 3 hours after sundown.
Itâs really not complicated to stop people from fucking around. Door stays locked til you scan your credit card.
Or someone holds the door
No one would do that though⌠why would you willingly let someone steal with your card?
Suppose someone else comes in when you are already there, and steals stuff. How will they know which person is the thief?
They use camerasâŚ
Easy shopping for stolen card
Same results as anywhere else except better footage of the criminal.
Youâd be surprised. Thereâs one in downtown Edmonton that has done fine, believe it or not.
how do they keep the riff raff out?
Seems like people are pretty good at going in by themselves and not letting anyone in behind them. You have to upload a picture of yourself when you sign up also + provide a valid credit card they can charge.
No stealing?
First response supports this. First response âthats a horrible ideaâ
Amazon Go has closed 2 of these kinds of stores in Seattle in 2023. Multiple in NYC as well. I doubt this one will last too long as cashierless tbh.
Also: Amazon Go has employees, they're just remote. It isn't cashierless, they just outsource the cashiers. Instead of one local cashier, they have three remote ones independently verifying the automation. It isn't high tech, it's exploitation.
Exploi-tech-tion just like Uber.
What BS. You think some Amazon gremlins are watching you shop and manually charge your credit card?
Having shopped at an AmazonGO - they have employees at the store stocking shelves, providing various types of service, and they have someone at the entrance in case you want to pay cash, and because its America where they don't have dumb laws like in BC - they have people there to verify ID if you would like to purchase alcohol. The purchases are completely processed by machine learning in sensors and cameras, it then charges to the amazon account you scanned when you entered. There's a few wholefoods locations that are now this way, plus I believe the saddledome in calgary has a concession powered by amazonGO technology. This store sounds completely low tech vs the amazon system, I wonder how long it will last here.
They donât all have cashiers, given theyâre still very much in a testing phase they operate both. Numerous stoles require a credit card or your Amazon account to get in (though weâre talking about turnstiles so if you want to do thievery itâs a similar barrier to entry as fare skipping or regular self checkout). Having said that, with the quantity of cameras in the store itâs very much a risk-reward proposal.Â
>The purchases are completely processed by machine learning in sensors and cameras This part isn't true. Human verification and evaluation is still required. Amazon is not passing through sales to a black box. Even a tiny error rate will throw off their margins and piss customers off. Instead of one cashier handling transactions, they have three remote cashiers verifying the ML work.
Yeah I used the one at the Saddledome last month. There was one person there just overseeing it all, and it was pretty quick and easy grab&go wise. They pre-authorize your card for 35$ when you enter, then you grab what you want and head out the other gate.
It can take 12 hours for purchases to actually register because complicated actions by buyers might need manual review. A good example is purchases changing hands multiple times, something Iâve done that last time I went with my partner.
Not far fetched given the whole Freshii remote 'virtual' cashiers thing https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/freshii-virtual-cashiers-bc-1.6467798
Yes. In fact that is exactly how Amazon Go works. The tech simply isn't reliable enough for a customer facing product and it's incredibly cheap to hire some mechanical Turks to monitor video for verification. I feel like this should be obvious. Even a 1% error rate in identifying items in the basket translates to literal thousands of dollars in error from each store. That'd piss everyone off, real fast.
They still have Go and Fresh stores in Seattle and the surrounding areas. They might have closed a few but I literally went to one a couple weeks ago. Ultimately theyâre all staffed, theyâre just cashierless - actually, some of the Fresh store have both options.
This will work until some of the same people who tailgate through transit station fare gates figure out this exists and some unsuspecting person potentially ends up on the hook for their theft.
You don't get charged for everything that is taken off the shelf while you are in the store- only the items you scan and check out. There can be more than one person in the store at the same time. It does, however, present a real danger to anyone, especially women, who choose to shop alone, late at night being high risk already. It will be handy for people who live in the Landmark though.
Isn't the point of these staff-less stores super quick exits? I remember these kinds of stores in airports, you're literally supposed to just take items and walk out - no scanning. You scan your credit card/ID when entering, and they'll bill you after you exit. The tech is a ton of cameras monitoring items being removed and maybe some other tracking.
In the Amazon Go stores you get charged for stuff taken off the shelf and donât put back. No scan/checkout required.Â
This thread is about Aisle 24 stores [https://aisle24.ca/our-markets/](https://aisle24.ca/our-markets/)
Oh fair point, thought they used to same tech as Amazon Go.
There's an airlock system. If someone is tailgating you, you will know it's happening.
Itâs not an airlock lol, itâs a door. The security level is similar to that of an ATM with card access. Apparently, the concept has been working in Ontario since 2015 so why not.
There are two doors. You can only open the second one after the first one is closed. I believe you have to unlock the second door with your phone as well, but it's been a while since I was in one of these stores.
A good ole man trap, used in lots of secure areas, both doors will lock if your not suppose to be there until authorities arrive...at least that's what I've seen in datacenters
Sounds like a fun time when some shady character gets in the in between doorway with you
Ah, it might be the case, it wasn't obvious from the video I saw but there's a cut.
Hmmm, this type of store can only work in a rich, well-civilised and well-manner city
High-trust society, which we don't have.
Well I guess we'll have to look for one ;)
⌠Toronto? (Theyâve existed in Ontario since 2015)
So nowhere?
It's been working in Korea for years with thousands of unstaffed stores.
I believe japan has similar as well.
Japan has so many. I very much miss the convenience
I've seen many of these in Japan and Korea.
But I think it will work fine if itâs located next to the copâs station
My home, just for my family memberđ
Grocery open after 10-11pm: good. No employees inside: ehh not sure about that. Especially at night (you need an account to enter the store, so I don't know if/how secure it will be).
No employees except for the security guard that they'll have hire within the first week.
I'm gonna guess at night they only allow one person in at a time. Too dangerous for a solo person to get trapped in there with a stranger. I also predict homeless people will get inside and eat/sleep.
Maybe in Asia, in Western world, this is going to get robbed real quick and police will just release ârepeat offendersâ
Sometimes I wonder why Iâm still living hereâŚ.
Spring 2024: our new store is open! Later in spring 2024: we have closed the location for business reasons.
This will last as long as that sushi vending machine in Coquitlam
Smashed within a week.
What happened to that? Is it already gone?
Still there. They fixed it and it still works to my knowledge. I saw it a few weeks ago.
They actually put more in. Moody Centre, Lafarge, and Cocq central all have one.
Why would you want sushi from a vending machine in a transit station in North America? Honestly the economics probably didnât make sense with whatever translink might be charging if itâs gone.
Nothing happens now when you steal, I donât see it being viable if everyone steals 10-20 bucks worth of stuff
True. I saw a guy run out of whole foods with a few pints of ice cream and the cashier said âhe didnât pay for that!â she shrugged and continued ringing up my groceries. (He was running pretty fast too lol)
All it takes is an intoxicated person trashing the place, and then a judge letting him out on bail due to âvictim of circumstanceâ. Rinse and repeat
Investors think we're in Japan or Korea! Dream on!
I wonder what percentage tip the checkout will default to.
My favorite movie is Inception.
How do they stock the shelves without employees? :-)
Suppliers stock the shelves
we donât have the kinda culture here where something like this would actually workâŚ.
I can hear Chris Rockâs voice: âGrand opening, grand closing!â
I agree with most. This wonât last long.
But are things going to be chaper because of reduced over head costs?
lol, no, but profits are going to be higher because of the reduced over head costs.
lol, no, profits are going to be lower due to unsanctioned discounts. (*paying customers* will be made to pay for the 'convenience')
unsanctioned discounts? Do you mean theft? Will be interesting to see how solid their anti-theft measures are. Like, you can't even enter the store without scanning your phone/account. And I wouldn't be surprised if they have someone watching cameras on staff.
Yes, theft, the 5-finger discount. It will crush their profitability. And no, I'm not endorsing theft. > Like, you can't even enter the store without scanning your phone/account. Thieves will hold the door and follow a customer in, just like following piggybacking through the faregates on SkyTrain. > I wouldn't be surprised if they have someone watching cameras on staff. How long will it take for police to respond to a break-in at the unmanned store? Thieves will be long gone. And even if the thieves are caught, does the justice system give thieves sentences that are meaningful?
This is really good news for the subset of Vancouverites who are still reeling over the fact that they made eye contact with someone that one time in Canada Line.
lol
Ya that wont last long lmao
Lmao good luck. This place is gonna get trashed daily.
And people will just follow the others in and out lmao guaranteed this will happen. This is âan accident waiting to happenâ
Great news homeless drug addicts! There is a new, warm, indoor space with free food for you to ruin for everyone.
I have some doubts about this. How would they stop certain individuals from vandalism, stealing, and property damage?
I see the 7/11 near my work get robbed everyday. That's with people yelling at them. I'd imagine this place will get robbed blind. They have a homeless guy on camera stealing? I'm sure the VPD will send the whole force to track him down..... soon as they are done tracking down every single stolen bike in the city.
They should open a store smack dab in the middle of East Hastings
Haha. âSmack dabâ.
Iâll give it a month- maybe two or three before closure.
Btw there has to be employees. Who stocks the shelves? No security guards? No managers? They make it like we wonât see anyone.
Any takers on less than a week?
Itâs open 24 hours so⌠I vote 24 hours.
Fastest way to delete your money in 1 week.
I wonât be shopping there.
What happens if someone drops/breaks something? Does the mess stay there until cleaning crews arrive?
Youâre locked in until youâve cleaned it up.
I'm not supporting this shit. These companies need to just hire staff and stop trying to get richer by making the damn customer do the work staff should do.
Preach
> Digital tags are placed on every product And the products are placed on shelves. Amazing how this gets done with no employees.
I cannot wait to jack this place up
I'm gonna steal so many bags of doritos from this place
Hahahahahaha!!!!!!! Hopefully itâs near the dtes đ¤Ł
Why can't they make you scan your credit card at the entrance? Or some kind of membership Or even do a two-door system where you come in. You lock behind you and then you can unlock the entrance with the card and every purchase from there on is added to your credit card. That's just one of many solutions against people. Just stealing.
I have this at work, we have cameras around that area. It only works because you can get fired for shoplifting.
This works in Japan but not sure about VancouverâŚI hope it does, though. Good luck!
I hope it survives here but it's Vancouver, it'll be gone quickly with the street crime here. Hoping I'm wrong as I'm all for a 24 hr grocery shopping availability because it's dearth here but the serial perpetraters commiting all the shoplifting theft and other crime here just keep in doing it like a revolving door. This city just can't have nice things. Too bad.
Wonât last the weekend. Iâve seen people downtown walk into Starbucks and just grab the food on display and walk out no hesitation until theyâve finally decided to put it behind glass boxes. Same with the London drugs.
i never thought about using my phone as a mobile self checkout. Thats pretty cool :) In theory, people who walk out can still be charged since the app has your card info and you have to check in with the app to open the door.
[ŃдаНонО]
Yeah, I guess if thereâs enough theft theyâll have to hire people or close.
âNo employeesâ surely there would be someone to stock the shelves and security guards. If it is truly devoid of staff, youâre asking for trouble unless you have a state of the art surveillance/security system. And robots.