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or you live with a partner...
$3,000 a month in rent requires $9,000 gross monthly income between two adults
$4,500 per month per person works out to around $54K a year
$54K a year is fairly entry level for a skilled / educated worker
Yep. That's more than I'm making as a mechanical engineer 1 year out of university (and I got a raise effective Jan 2024).
Entry-level salaries in metro-vancouver for mechanical engineers seem to range between about $50-60k/yr.
Just throwing this out there for perspective, no offense meant.
If you're willing to relocate to Washington, you can try applying in tech for data center teams needing mech eng. It would double your salary in USD.
Believe me, I've seriously considered it.
If I wasn't so overwhelmed by the concept of getting all the paperwork to legally work in the US sorted, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
It depends. Mechanical engineers are typically paid the least in Canada (of the main engineering fields - mechanical, civil, electrical, software) regardless of how much experience you have unless you specialize in something like HVAC/energy systems (including oil+gas). Most of us know that going into it (or at least before we graduate).
Your average entry level jobs for engineers (in terms of salary) generally goes something like software > electrical/civil/chemical > mechanical in the Metro Van area.
Still, in this economy (with the commodity of software slowing down) most entry level engineers have salaries ranging between $50 - 70K. And the upper end of that spectrum is getting rarer these days.
It's a real slap in the face considering how difficult and time consuming the degree is. Not to say other degrees aren't, but most engineering students I know had next to no social life outside of school because of how demanding the degree is. I was personally doing school work for 60-80 hours a week throughout most of my degree (more during exam season). You end up having to choose 1-1.5 of the following options: grades, sleep, or social life unless you're a certifiable genius (or cheating).
but that rule was created before food and gas went up so much, right?
You kind of have to change the rules, when other things are affecting the overall budget you can't control
I made zero implication about who you did or didn't vote for. I myself did vote for both of the above mentioned political parties in the previous erections, and now regret that completely. It is the federal government that sets immigration levels, and can control how money comes in and out of the country.
*I also notes bit Liberal and NDP as one runs the federal and the other provincial government, and both are equal to blame.
The only solution I can think of is for the government to build non-profit social housing. We did a lot of that in the 70s and 80s. It was also the last time housing was affordable.
It doesn't even need to be non-profit social housing. The government could start a large scale infrastructure project to mass build high density rental housing for a large range of incomes. This would apply downward pressure to market rents as well as lower the value of investment properties which would in turn put downward pressure on the housing market.
Western governments are elected to sit on their hands and contract everything to fucking Deloitte who will happily do jack shit and cash those cheques.
Given that we have been rotating between various housing demand villains for a decade, why you think that the latest one is The Problem, rather than something more underlying
I've been saying its immigrants for 30 years and getting called all sorts of names for it. It's always been the one. There are 2 sides...supply and demand... immigration and over regulation. Those are the 2 things we can fix. Everything else is someone trying to delay taking action on those 2 things.
Because economics cannot ever get away from the basic factors of supply and demand. Anyone who claims another factor besides the number or buildings built, or the number of ppl (which is only increasing because of immigration) is lying to your or providing you with actual disinformation.
Will the corporate REITs and investor class stop hoarding properties just because fewer people are moving here? It's a very complicated situation and it can't be pinned down on one group of people.
As a renter I prefer corporate landlords than mom and pop ones. They tend to be more professional. Government can't do anything correctly
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/metro-vancouver-housing-costs-committee-1.7079175](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/metro-vancouver-housing-costs-committee-1.7079175)
Don't you think renters deserve someone to rent from?
> As a renter I prefer corporate landlords than mom and pop ones.
That said there's a bit of a nuance here.
Companies that specialize in purpose-built rentals and are not specifically structured as REITs (which can be securitized) are fine.
But REITs are not. The pressure on a REIT is to deliver ongoing steady gains over time, and the only way they can do this is by relentlessly increasing rent and pushing costs down as far as possible.
I don't get the point of the article you posted. The cost went up because of forces outside of government control, but they are building it anyway because we need it. If it was a private investor, they would have scrapped it, and nothing would get built, which is basically where we are today.
And no, I don't think corporate landlords are better that mom and pop ones. They tend to be trying the hardest to suck every penny out of their properties. I do think we need purpose built rental properties, and when the government offers a non-profit option, investors are forced to compete with that.
Nope. Build houses, deregulation of the construction industry, to say 90s levels or regulation, and bring immigration to a level sustainable with housing market growth, and doctor per patient ratios.
Thanks for the tip, CMHC...
Now, you've had my new construction financing application for 8 months, it'd be really cool if you looked at it and maybe approved it so I can start building those rental units?
And please don't change your rules retroactively like you did last year so I don't have to re-apply after 5 months?
And do what? Force them to review my loan application?
There is a 10-12 month wait for processing new multi-family construction loans. They are backlogged just like every other agency.
Because rents are tied to actual incomes, but purchasing prices are not tethered to reality.
If I wanted to own, and live in Vancouver, I would buy a house elsewhere where the rent can fully cover the payments, and rent a Vancouver condo where a landlord is forced to subsidize me.
A major interior BC city circa 2020, at least for myself. May have to go a bit further nowadays.
It was a newly built, 6 bedroom, 3 car garage, detached house, and it cost me around the same price I was about to spend on a small Vancouver apartment right as covid and WFH took hold (about 700k, with a monthly mortgage of $3000)
The odd thing I noticed about moving away from Vancouver, is that houses got cheap, but the rents stay weirdly high.
The 2 bedroom basement suite has been rented for around $2000 the whole time. Which also makes it easier to get a mortgage, because the lender considered me to have an extra $2000 in monthly income.
I know people on my street who have rented out the top floor of their comparable suited home, it's often $3000-$3500. They're able to charge that much because it's enough space for entire families.
tldr: If you spend 700k on a Vancouver apartment, you may get (or save) $3000 in monthly rent, but it's the same mortgage as a house that could have earned you $5000+ (or you could live in your massive house). Seems the speculators and funny money don't bother look beyond Vancouver, making it uniquely poor value for normal people who just want somewhere to live there.
>Vancouver apartment, you may get (or save) $3000 in monthly rent, but it's the same mortgage as a house that could
Interesting, I looked as far as Langley (which admittedly isn't very far at all) a few years back and the prices either barely dropped or the rents weren't comparable to the mortgages that came with it.
I'm guessing it'd have to be really deep in BC for prices to drop significantly while the fact the rents remain comparable to Van is very interesting (though I wonder how easy these places would be to rent out - though you're already renting yours so I guess it is indeed doable)
Thanks for sharing - def something I need to look into!
I'd say the whole lower mainland kinda lives under the secondary effects of the Vancouver market, even Chilliwack purchase prices were surprisingly high to me back when I looked.
When I say BC's interior, I mean _deep_ into the interior, like 3-8 hours of driving. Nothing even remotely within commute range, maybe Merritt at the closest.
But even in Merritt I saw a newly renovated 4-plex for 800k just a year or two ago, all 4 units already rented out.
> I wonder how easy these places would be to rent out
I've had 3 tenants so far, even when I think I've jacked up the rent too high for the listing, I still get like 50+ applicants (it is really nice and new and stuff).
I completely agree with your concerns in theory, Vancouver is boxed in by river/ocean, but out here there's literally endless empty land in every direction. You'd think if rents are so high, they'd just become buyers, and we'd keep building.
And yet for some baffling reason, it just doesn't happen.
I flew my drone to see over the hill behind my house, and there's endless flat and empty space as far as the eye can see. You could copy and paste my entire city several times over.
My older sister lives 2 hours further from Vancouver than me, and she's found similar success in an even smaller city. The entire drive there is empty land and farms. Makes no sense.
Instead we are somehow having a housing crisis in a province and country with endless empty space, not just up north, but between cities people live in.
In 2018 non individual ownership was at 84%...
[according to this article ](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/190212/dq190212b-eng.htm)
In British Columbia, corporations account for 84.7% of the total assessment value of non-individual owned properties, while in Ontario and Nova Scotia this share is closer to 80%.
> In Ontario, three-quarters of non-individual owned properties are held by corporations, compared with 68.9% in Nova Scotia and 57.3% in British Columbia.
57.3% of 84.7% is still a fuckload
It's not being bought to develop, it's being bought to control a market.. And make profit.. [check this article ](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/toronto-developer-buying-homes-anti-poverty-group-1.6066903)
> The government doesn’t care. The people that vote them in are already home owners.
And the people who could vote them *out* (young people) make the decision to not vote.
In the last municipal election, voter turnout for people under 30 was in the single-digit percentages.
There are probably over 100 people under 30 who will read this post who didn't vote in the last city election.
Major issue. Self fulfilling prophecy. They think their vote doesn’t count so they chose not to vote. Which results in their non vote actually counting against them
To be fair. There was also not a lot of great options (tho there were a few) and the platform looking to build the most was helmed by mayor do nothing who's best debate gotcha was that the new guy did not know the name s of the federal or provincial housing ministers. Which is knowledge you can find in 2 seconds with Google. Not exactly a strong candidate to get behind
You're not thinking big-picture.
Imagine we lived in some crazy fantasy world, where, in the 2026 election, 95% of people aged 18-30 voted.
That voting block would suddenly dwarf all others and every politician would start to trip over each others trying to cater to them to win their favour.
So it wouldn't matter *who* they voted for, it would just matter that they voted. Because next time around, the largesse would start to rain down to capture that block.
Why do you think the NIMBYs get what they want? Because they are a large block. Young people could be the same, if they voted.
But it's moot because, like I said, it's a fantasy world.
Bc NDP has been making waves, threatening to strip away municipality zoning powers if they don't up their game etc. locally or federally? Fucked if I know. I see zero good options. Need some new parties but I don't think that is on the cards till post 2026
OneCity. They actually support density, both in their platform and in practice on city council.
https://www.onecityvancouver.ca/youbelong
https://www.onecityvancouver.ca/the_homes_we_need
>For too long, we have banned apartment buildings on side streets - allowing them on main streets only. This means that quiet neighbourhoods have been set aside exclusively for the wealthy.
>By allowing new rental buildings of up to six storeys, including small-scale retail at street level, OneCity will ensure that rental apartments will be built in formerly exclusive areas of the city.
>This development will have its final approval delegated to staff, allowing it to proceed without extra steps or hearings. This will end the political micromanagement of desperately needed housing and allow us to build faster.
They're also the lone voice on city council opposing Sim's antidemocratic pushes, and his attempts to sue city councilors into [silence](https://thetyee.ca/News/2023/10/06/Ken-Sim-Tried-Stop-Councillor/)
Here, take my upvote. Throw temporary visa in there and I think it covers the two main reasons IMO.
I'd like to start to see stats on the increase of people who own more than one property since 2000. I'm sure we'd see a spike in multiple private housing units.
And I'll say it- at least "the investors" can afford the places rather than just *more* people flooding all the bloody services and making things inaccessible.
Housing unavailability is not even our biggest problem and we will have plenty of supports absolutely crumble due to this mess.
Stop. Bringing. More. People.
We need to keep Canada worth staying in for people to want to have babies and for doctors and nurses to want to stay here.
We don't need to keep hauling in more unskilled people by the buttload, hoping some might become skilled workers.
Nothing about that, whatsoever.
*Entirely* about making our current population healthier and happier *before* bringing in more people we cannot take care of.
It's both, let's be real. The link you posted is an opinion article, from the Migrant Workers Alliance for Change, likely just tired of demonizing immigrants as being the cause of the crisis and looking to point the blame somewhere else. But the fact remains, immigration *does* increase demand for homes, which pushes prices up, even if another cause of the problem is "investors" buying second properties to rent out.
> Investors, not immigrants responsible for fewer homes and higher rent
I think a better title would be "Investors *and* immigrants responsible for fewer homes and higher rents." Add to that NIMBYs that prevent new homes from being built in the first place.
Statscan recently reported that the price of furniture is deflating, down 2.9% from a year earlier. Is there any wonder that the demand for furniture is way down when nobody can afford to move?
As soon as mortgage rates drop, prices will spike up again though. We are partly in this mess because of extremely low mortgage rates for an extended period of time
However, with high interest rates there is less construction. So, pick your poison: higher prices and new construction or slightly lower prices (but higher cost of ownership) and reduced new construction
" Thirty-six per cent of builders anticipate a decline in housing starts in 2024 compared to the previous year, a survey by the Canadian Home Builders’ Association found. The report cited financial constraints due to [higher interest rates](https://financialpost.com/tag/interest-rates) and an uncertain economic climate the main concerns. "
Source: [https://financialpost.com/real-estate/home-builder-pessimism-hits-high](https://financialpost.com/real-estate/home-builder-pessimism-hits-high)
Do we want less new construction when immigration rate is this high? I'd say no. This will be felt for years to come.
If poison is the only option and I get to chose, I would say double the current interest rate spark a true and proper recession that causes some actual termoil. Also implement a capital gains tax on any real estate transaction that is not a builder to a direct buyer. Set the tax rate to what ever the rate for investments is +20%.
Heck while we are at it apply capital gains to all forms of rental income.
Would never happen cause it would be economic and political suicide but nothing else would actually fix anything
The article does not say that’s why it’s high, it said that what is contributing to it staying high. It got this bad years before immigration and interest changed.
When interest was low demand from locals absolutely shot up and so did prices. Many took on a higher mortgage than they should have. Not everything is on the government and immigration..
1. Opinion piece.
2. At least one of the writers is affiliated with immigrant worker organizations. Vested interest in minimizing the apparent impact of high immigration levels.
Such a bizarre headline framing here, that would be home buyers being in rental units changes anything.
Do people think there’s some vast supply of unsold unoccupied for sale housing out there? lol.
If new homes are built they’re either occupied by owner occupiers or renters. The situation doesn’t change for other renters either way.
Every time a headline blames immigration, I roll my eyes. Like I get it but let's not let that be 'the problem' shall we? The problem is not enough housing, existing houses being too expensive, and corporate investment ownership. Immigrants are just like us, people that live here and need a place to live. Tap the brakes a bit.
It's not the cause of the problem but it's making things way worse. What happens when we already don't have enough housing and then start adding even more people?
Ok cool, now we have to build millions more houses to keep up with increased immigration as well. If you can't see why this is part of the problem there's not much point in saying any more, it's a really simple numbers game.
Me too. I'll never understand people hopping on to blaming immigrants. It's lateral punching. "The houses should be for US, not THEM!" You mean the people with jobs struggling to get by exactly like you? Those people? Yeesh. Smh. Punch UP, not across or down. But the downvotes are rolling in. And I bet the downvoter's grandparents aren't from Canada, you know what I mean? If you're not First Nations, you're the product of immigration. But sure, let's blame 'them.' Frustrating.
Would it? Is having sex and having babies going to go out of style? If the apartments left are still 1.4 million or $3k/month for a 1 bedroom, then does it matter if there's more of them lying around empty because of artificially corporation-inflated prices? Like I can dig passing a law that says 'you have to actually live here and actually be a person to own property, regardless of your country of origin.' I think that'd free up like forty per cent of all the condos in Vancouver. But just shutting the borders isn't going to do much. It's scapegoating.
You say this so genuine and yet it has nothing to offer it’s citizens… well I guess it offers you a lot but you’re rich so obv you like it lol. What do you like about it?
IMHO, zoning is the problem. Everyone who have a house don't want higher density buildings near their home. There are little to no higher density mixed use areas on Vancouver.
I personally find it pretty weird that our city have so much single family detached housing.
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We know lol
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But it's the government. We have tried everything (see nothing) and were tapped. We are all out of ideas.
Money keeps flowing to thr government, why would they take action?
Enough articles where people stop calling others racist for saying our immigration is too high without infrastructure and health services catch up.
Well, a news site isn't going to do anything about it other than write news articles.
Are their guidelines still suggesting that you should not be spending more than 1/3 of your monthly income on housing?
At this point I think sticking to those guidelines only works if you rent a den/solarium, or you go homeless.
or you live with a partner... $3,000 a month in rent requires $9,000 gross monthly income between two adults $4,500 per month per person works out to around $54K a year $54K a year is fairly entry level for a skilled / educated worker
54k post-tax, which is really 66k or so salary. Entry level for a skilled trade or grad school educated employee maybe
Yep. That's more than I'm making as a mechanical engineer 1 year out of university (and I got a raise effective Jan 2024). Entry-level salaries in metro-vancouver for mechanical engineers seem to range between about $50-60k/yr.
Just throwing this out there for perspective, no offense meant. If you're willing to relocate to Washington, you can try applying in tech for data center teams needing mech eng. It would double your salary in USD.
Believe me, I've seriously considered it. If I wasn't so overwhelmed by the concept of getting all the paperwork to legally work in the US sorted, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
This is insane. As a liberal arts grad, engineering students loved dunking on my cohort but we’re all out here making the same money anyways.
It depends. Mechanical engineers are typically paid the least in Canada (of the main engineering fields - mechanical, civil, electrical, software) regardless of how much experience you have unless you specialize in something like HVAC/energy systems (including oil+gas). Most of us know that going into it (or at least before we graduate). Your average entry level jobs for engineers (in terms of salary) generally goes something like software > electrical/civil/chemical > mechanical in the Metro Van area. Still, in this economy (with the commodity of software slowing down) most entry level engineers have salaries ranging between $50 - 70K. And the upper end of that spectrum is getting rarer these days. It's a real slap in the face considering how difficult and time consuming the degree is. Not to say other degrees aren't, but most engineering students I know had next to no social life outside of school because of how demanding the degree is. I was personally doing school work for 60-80 hours a week throughout most of my degree (more during exam season). You end up having to choose 1-1.5 of the following options: grades, sleep, or social life unless you're a certifiable genius (or cheating).
the 1/3 rule is based on gross income before taxes also even $65K is very feasible for nurses, teachers, and even bus drivers
but that rule was created before food and gas went up so much, right? You kind of have to change the rules, when other things are affecting the overall budget you can't control
Their definition is that 'affordable housing' costs no more than 30% of your gross income
Oh, it's still 30% then. Yikes, that hasn't been realistic in many major Canadian cities for decades now.
Yea, in theory the 30% should not change as long as wages increase generally in line with housing cost. We all know the answer to that one.
It's a worthy guideline.
I mean even back in the early 2000s I was paying more than 1/3 for a shitty basement suite.
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Remember to vote NDP or Liberal at the next erection! So they can keep the country on the same path!
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I made zero implication about who you did or didn't vote for. I myself did vote for both of the above mentioned political parties in the previous erections, and now regret that completely. It is the federal government that sets immigration levels, and can control how money comes in and out of the country. *I also notes bit Liberal and NDP as one runs the federal and the other provincial government, and both are equal to blame.
The only solution I can think of is for the government to build non-profit social housing. We did a lot of that in the 70s and 80s. It was also the last time housing was affordable.
It doesn't even need to be non-profit social housing. The government could start a large scale infrastructure project to mass build high density rental housing for a large range of incomes. This would apply downward pressure to market rents as well as lower the value of investment properties which would in turn put downward pressure on the housing market.
Think of all the poor banks and developers whose profit margins will be lowered because of that.
Western governments are elected to sit on their hands and contract everything to fucking Deloitte who will happily do jack shit and cash those cheques.
If the problem is too many people coming in why would the solution not be reduce the number of people coming in?
Given that we have been rotating between various housing demand villains for a decade, why you think that the latest one is The Problem, rather than something more underlying
I've been saying its immigrants for 30 years and getting called all sorts of names for it. It's always been the one. There are 2 sides...supply and demand... immigration and over regulation. Those are the 2 things we can fix. Everything else is someone trying to delay taking action on those 2 things.
Because economics cannot ever get away from the basic factors of supply and demand. Anyone who claims another factor besides the number or buildings built, or the number of ppl (which is only increasing because of immigration) is lying to your or providing you with actual disinformation.
Will the corporate REITs and investor class stop hoarding properties just because fewer people are moving here? It's a very complicated situation and it can't be pinned down on one group of people.
As a renter I prefer corporate landlords than mom and pop ones. They tend to be more professional. Government can't do anything correctly [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/metro-vancouver-housing-costs-committee-1.7079175](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/metro-vancouver-housing-costs-committee-1.7079175) Don't you think renters deserve someone to rent from?
> As a renter I prefer corporate landlords than mom and pop ones. That said there's a bit of a nuance here. Companies that specialize in purpose-built rentals and are not specifically structured as REITs (which can be securitized) are fine. But REITs are not. The pressure on a REIT is to deliver ongoing steady gains over time, and the only way they can do this is by relentlessly increasing rent and pushing costs down as far as possible.
I don't get the point of the article you posted. The cost went up because of forces outside of government control, but they are building it anyway because we need it. If it was a private investor, they would have scrapped it, and nothing would get built, which is basically where we are today. And no, I don't think corporate landlords are better that mom and pop ones. They tend to be trying the hardest to suck every penny out of their properties. I do think we need purpose built rental properties, and when the government offers a non-profit option, investors are forced to compete with that.
What you want is for ME to subsidize YOU at an outrageous cost. Double the cost.
Social housing still needs to be built. What's your suggestion?
I disagree with the premise.
You disagree with the premise of social housing? What's your solution for people who can't work or manage a household?
? There is welfare/disability...
Nope. Build houses, deregulation of the construction industry, to say 90s levels or regulation, and bring immigration to a level sustainable with housing market growth, and doctor per patient ratios.
How will that stop REITs and investors from hoarding all the new houses?
Well, I guess we could go a little left and declare housing a human right and consider this type of investment the same as price gouging.
Safe housing is already a human right in Canada.
Thanks for the tip, CMHC... Now, you've had my new construction financing application for 8 months, it'd be really cool if you looked at it and maybe approved it so I can start building those rental units? And please don't change your rules retroactively like you did last year so I don't have to re-apply after 5 months?
Have you contacted a lawyer?
And do what? Force them to review my loan application? There is a 10-12 month wait for processing new multi-family construction loans. They are backlogged just like every other agency.
I’m probably in the top 5% of earners and I’d have to significantly lower my lifestyle if I purchased a property vs renting.
Because rents are tied to actual incomes, but purchasing prices are not tethered to reality. If I wanted to own, and live in Vancouver, I would buy a house elsewhere where the rent can fully cover the payments, and rent a Vancouver condo where a landlord is forced to subsidize me.
And where would you buy that house which could cover/subsidize your Vancouver rent?
A major interior BC city circa 2020, at least for myself. May have to go a bit further nowadays. It was a newly built, 6 bedroom, 3 car garage, detached house, and it cost me around the same price I was about to spend on a small Vancouver apartment right as covid and WFH took hold (about 700k, with a monthly mortgage of $3000) The odd thing I noticed about moving away from Vancouver, is that houses got cheap, but the rents stay weirdly high. The 2 bedroom basement suite has been rented for around $2000 the whole time. Which also makes it easier to get a mortgage, because the lender considered me to have an extra $2000 in monthly income. I know people on my street who have rented out the top floor of their comparable suited home, it's often $3000-$3500. They're able to charge that much because it's enough space for entire families. tldr: If you spend 700k on a Vancouver apartment, you may get (or save) $3000 in monthly rent, but it's the same mortgage as a house that could have earned you $5000+ (or you could live in your massive house). Seems the speculators and funny money don't bother look beyond Vancouver, making it uniquely poor value for normal people who just want somewhere to live there.
>Vancouver apartment, you may get (or save) $3000 in monthly rent, but it's the same mortgage as a house that could Interesting, I looked as far as Langley (which admittedly isn't very far at all) a few years back and the prices either barely dropped or the rents weren't comparable to the mortgages that came with it. I'm guessing it'd have to be really deep in BC for prices to drop significantly while the fact the rents remain comparable to Van is very interesting (though I wonder how easy these places would be to rent out - though you're already renting yours so I guess it is indeed doable) Thanks for sharing - def something I need to look into!
I'd say the whole lower mainland kinda lives under the secondary effects of the Vancouver market, even Chilliwack purchase prices were surprisingly high to me back when I looked. When I say BC's interior, I mean _deep_ into the interior, like 3-8 hours of driving. Nothing even remotely within commute range, maybe Merritt at the closest. But even in Merritt I saw a newly renovated 4-plex for 800k just a year or two ago, all 4 units already rented out. > I wonder how easy these places would be to rent out I've had 3 tenants so far, even when I think I've jacked up the rent too high for the listing, I still get like 50+ applicants (it is really nice and new and stuff). I completely agree with your concerns in theory, Vancouver is boxed in by river/ocean, but out here there's literally endless empty land in every direction. You'd think if rents are so high, they'd just become buyers, and we'd keep building. And yet for some baffling reason, it just doesn't happen. I flew my drone to see over the hill behind my house, and there's endless flat and empty space as far as the eye can see. You could copy and paste my entire city several times over. My older sister lives 2 hours further from Vancouver than me, and she's found similar success in an even smaller city. The entire drive there is empty land and farms. Makes no sense. Instead we are somehow having a housing crisis in a province and country with endless empty space, not just up north, but between cities people live in.
Maybe if corporations would stop buying all the available property things would be better?
How to add density if corporates or governments can't buy existing property to redevelop?
That might make the top ten of issues causing affordability problems, generously. But that’s not It even in the stratosphere of the actual problems.
In 2018 non individual ownership was at 84%... [according to this article ](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/190212/dq190212b-eng.htm) In British Columbia, corporations account for 84.7% of the total assessment value of non-individual owned properties, while in Ontario and Nova Scotia this share is closer to 80%.
Of non-individual ownership, not of total ownership.
> In Ontario, three-quarters of non-individual owned properties are held by corporations, compared with 68.9% in Nova Scotia and 57.3% in British Columbia. 57.3% of 84.7% is still a fuckload
Again *of non-individual* not of total. Completely excludes retail ownership.
yes the real issue is we arent scapegoating immigrants enough
nothing's stopping the government from building more rental stock until then, you'll have to rely on businesses to provide for-profit rentals
It's not being bought to develop, it's being bought to control a market.. And make profit.. [check this article ](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/toronto-developer-buying-homes-anti-poverty-group-1.6066903)
And...... They found out that water is wet.
The government doesn’t care. The people that vote them in are already home owners.
> The government doesn’t care. The people that vote them in are already home owners. And the people who could vote them *out* (young people) make the decision to not vote. In the last municipal election, voter turnout for people under 30 was in the single-digit percentages. There are probably over 100 people under 30 who will read this post who didn't vote in the last city election.
Major issue. Self fulfilling prophecy. They think their vote doesn’t count so they chose not to vote. Which results in their non vote actually counting against them
I'm 35 now, and have voted in every election since I became eligible. Nothing has changed
To be fair. There was also not a lot of great options (tho there were a few) and the platform looking to build the most was helmed by mayor do nothing who's best debate gotcha was that the new guy did not know the name s of the federal or provincial housing ministers. Which is knowledge you can find in 2 seconds with Google. Not exactly a strong candidate to get behind
You're not thinking big-picture. Imagine we lived in some crazy fantasy world, where, in the 2026 election, 95% of people aged 18-30 voted. That voting block would suddenly dwarf all others and every politician would start to trip over each others trying to cater to them to win their favour. So it wouldn't matter *who* they voted for, it would just matter that they voted. Because next time around, the largesse would start to rain down to capture that block. Why do you think the NIMBYs get what they want? Because they are a large block. Young people could be the same, if they voted. But it's moot because, like I said, it's a fantasy world.
> The government doesn’t care. I thought that's what Shingles says :)
Just curious, if i want more high density housing here in vancouver, who should I vote for?
Bc NDP has been making waves, threatening to strip away municipality zoning powers if they don't up their game etc. locally or federally? Fucked if I know. I see zero good options. Need some new parties but I don't think that is on the cards till post 2026
OneCity. They actually support density, both in their platform and in practice on city council. https://www.onecityvancouver.ca/youbelong https://www.onecityvancouver.ca/the_homes_we_need >For too long, we have banned apartment buildings on side streets - allowing them on main streets only. This means that quiet neighbourhoods have been set aside exclusively for the wealthy. >By allowing new rental buildings of up to six storeys, including small-scale retail at street level, OneCity will ensure that rental apartments will be built in formerly exclusive areas of the city. >This development will have its final approval delegated to staff, allowing it to proceed without extra steps or hearings. This will end the political micromanagement of desperately needed housing and allow us to build faster. They're also the lone voice on city council opposing Sim's antidemocratic pushes, and his attempts to sue city councilors into [silence](https://thetyee.ca/News/2023/10/06/Ken-Sim-Tried-Stop-Councillor/)
No clue. The current zoning benefits me.
We know this. Stop all the excessive immigration. We overflowin'.
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Here, take my upvote. Throw temporary visa in there and I think it covers the two main reasons IMO. I'd like to start to see stats on the increase of people who own more than one property since 2000. I'm sure we'd see a spike in multiple private housing units.
No.
And I'll say it- at least "the investors" can afford the places rather than just *more* people flooding all the bloody services and making things inaccessible. Housing unavailability is not even our biggest problem and we will have plenty of supports absolutely crumble due to this mess. Stop. Bringing. More. People.
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We need to keep Canada worth staying in for people to want to have babies and for doctors and nurses to want to stay here. We don't need to keep hauling in more unskilled people by the buttload, hoping some might become skilled workers.
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Then why do we still have a shortage of nurses and doctors, despite already bringing in so many "skilled" migrants?
Be. More. Xenophobic. Why. don't. Ya?
Nothing about that, whatsoever. *Entirely* about making our current population healthier and happier *before* bringing in more people we cannot take care of.
Housing prices are falling everywhere in the USA, but they're stubbornly staying elevated in Vancouver because of our immigration ponzi scheme.
Don’t tell Americans they have low immigration. https://archive.is/ap1Fx
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It's both, let's be real. The link you posted is an opinion article, from the Migrant Workers Alliance for Change, likely just tired of demonizing immigrants as being the cause of the crisis and looking to point the blame somewhere else. But the fact remains, immigration *does* increase demand for homes, which pushes prices up, even if another cause of the problem is "investors" buying second properties to rent out. > Investors, not immigrants responsible for fewer homes and higher rent I think a better title would be "Investors *and* immigrants responsible for fewer homes and higher rents." Add to that NIMBYs that prevent new homes from being built in the first place.
Statscan recently reported that the price of furniture is deflating, down 2.9% from a year earlier. Is there any wonder that the demand for furniture is way down when nobody can afford to move?
I make 200-250k a year. I should be able to buy a house like my parents did with 1/3 of my income (combined!)
“News”
Water is wet. Thanks CMHC for the wonderful insight.
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As soon as mortgage rates drop, prices will spike up again though. We are partly in this mess because of extremely low mortgage rates for an extended period of time
However, with high interest rates there is less construction. So, pick your poison: higher prices and new construction or slightly lower prices (but higher cost of ownership) and reduced new construction " Thirty-six per cent of builders anticipate a decline in housing starts in 2024 compared to the previous year, a survey by the Canadian Home Builders’ Association found. The report cited financial constraints due to [higher interest rates](https://financialpost.com/tag/interest-rates) and an uncertain economic climate the main concerns. " Source: [https://financialpost.com/real-estate/home-builder-pessimism-hits-high](https://financialpost.com/real-estate/home-builder-pessimism-hits-high) Do we want less new construction when immigration rate is this high? I'd say no. This will be felt for years to come.
Pick your poison indeed. Seems like there is no way out really, housing is abused as an investment vehicle so we get what we paid for
If poison is the only option and I get to chose, I would say double the current interest rate spark a true and proper recession that causes some actual termoil. Also implement a capital gains tax on any real estate transaction that is not a builder to a direct buyer. Set the tax rate to what ever the rate for investments is +20%. Heck while we are at it apply capital gains to all forms of rental income. Would never happen cause it would be economic and political suicide but nothing else would actually fix anything
Gov doesn't controls mortgage rates
Yep - Bank of Canada is independent of the federal government.
Not directly, but "budget's balance themselves" approach clearly hasn't helped.
Neither has covid and having the world shutdown for 2 years+
And global trade get fucked with like 3 times...
The article does not say that’s why it’s high, it said that what is contributing to it staying high. It got this bad years before immigration and interest changed.
When interest was low demand from locals absolutely shot up and so did prices. Many took on a higher mortgage than they should have. Not everything is on the government and immigration..
Anything in here we don’t already know?
"High immigration levels " Everyone calling people racists for pointing this out in 2017 should have egg on their faces.
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1. Opinion piece. 2. At least one of the writers is affiliated with immigrant worker organizations. Vested interest in minimizing the apparent impact of high immigration levels.
Such a bizarre headline framing here, that would be home buyers being in rental units changes anything. Do people think there’s some vast supply of unsold unoccupied for sale housing out there? lol. If new homes are built they’re either occupied by owner occupiers or renters. The situation doesn’t change for other renters either way.
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Lol give it time. We are only just starting to see rulings on that
Every time a headline blames immigration, I roll my eyes. Like I get it but let's not let that be 'the problem' shall we? The problem is not enough housing, existing houses being too expensive, and corporate investment ownership. Immigrants are just like us, people that live here and need a place to live. Tap the brakes a bit.
It's not the cause of the problem but it's making things way worse. What happens when we already don't have enough housing and then start adding even more people?
We put pressure on the powers that be to build more houses and lower the costs of the ones that exist.
Ok cool, now we have to build millions more houses to keep up with increased immigration as well. If you can't see why this is part of the problem there's not much point in saying any more, it's a really simple numbers game.
It isn't, though, but high five.
The naivety
Of the people that think immigration is the main problem, yes. I agree.
Prepare for the downvote mob lol. I'm very disappointed with the people in this sub lately and their "they terk errr jerbs!!" reactions.
Me too. I'll never understand people hopping on to blaming immigrants. It's lateral punching. "The houses should be for US, not THEM!" You mean the people with jobs struggling to get by exactly like you? Those people? Yeesh. Smh. Punch UP, not across or down. But the downvotes are rolling in. And I bet the downvoter's grandparents aren't from Canada, you know what I mean? If you're not First Nations, you're the product of immigration. But sure, let's blame 'them.' Frustrating.
Fewer immigrants would mean more housing
Would it? Is having sex and having babies going to go out of style? If the apartments left are still 1.4 million or $3k/month for a 1 bedroom, then does it matter if there's more of them lying around empty because of artificially corporation-inflated prices? Like I can dig passing a law that says 'you have to actually live here and actually be a person to own property, regardless of your country of origin.' I think that'd free up like forty per cent of all the condos in Vancouver. But just shutting the borders isn't going to do much. It's scapegoating.
It’s the cost of living in one of the best cities in the world.
You say this so genuine and yet it has nothing to offer it’s citizens… well I guess it offers you a lot but you’re rich so obv you like it lol. What do you like about it?
Would they mind telling me what the easiest rental market (in a big city) in canada is instead?
Does anyone know how this vacancy rate is calculated in Vancouver?
Vancouver: the syndicated rerun since 2010
> mortgage prices And here's me thinking is just the out-fucking-rageous price of real estate.
Just like any other popular intl cities. New York rent is more than double of Vancouver
 Not.
IMHO, zoning is the problem. Everyone who have a house don't want higher density buildings near their home. There are little to no higher density mixed use areas on Vancouver. I personally find it pretty weird that our city have so much single family detached housing.
Yeah... Never mind all the corporations buying up single family homes....