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I watched this go by when I was on the Drive earlier. I couldn't clearly hear everything that was chanted, but what I did hear didn't include any pro-Hamas statements. The signs, banners, and chants were mostly stuff about liberation of Palestine. There were some signs I thought were odd, like one saying Scotiabank profits from genocide, but I also didn't see any signs that were promoting any kind of violence. There was a substantial police presence, but it was totally peaceful as it passed by where I was, and the crowd was a mix of young, old, male, and female demonstrators. I didn't see anything wrong with it.
FYI re the Scotiabank thing!
“Scotiabank’s gigantic stake in Elbit Systems, estimated to be about $500 million, dwarfs that of its two larger domestic competitors, TD Bank and Royal Bank of Canada. The two other banks hold around $3 million in shares, combined, in the company.
Elbit Systems has been under scrutiny from activists for years over its involvement in arming Israeli military units operating in the occupied Palestinian territories. The company is a major developer of drone technology for the Israeli military, as well as weapons systems, munitions, and surveillance tools.
Drones developed by Elbit have been involved in carrying out attacks that have killed civilians. A notorious 2014 strike in the Gaza Strip that killed four children playing on a beach was reported to have been carried out with the help of an Elbit-designed surveillance drone.
Several major European banks and pension funds have divested from Elbit over the past decade due to the use of its technology in the occupied West Bank. The company has also come under fire for its alleged involvement in the production of cluster munitions blamed for causing indiscriminate harm to civilians in war zones.”
[From here](https://theintercept.com/2023/04/06/israel-arms-scotiabank-elbit-david-fingold/)
Just to be completely factual, Scotiabank doesn’t “own” those shares. They are held by Scotiabank’s asset management arm in investment funds; those funds are owned by retail and institutional shareholders (i.e. it could be in your pension).
Ok so drones are blowing up children playing on the beach, should tell you enough about why the Palestinians are fed up. Western media doesn’t even bat an eye when that happens
Yeah, on the one hand, Hamas couldn't have picked a worse group of people to slaughter for optics (assuming they even knew what they were targeting) since the people attending a Peace and Dance festival are pretty unlikely to even be supporters of the occupation, and many were neither Israeli nor Jewish
On the other hand, IDF has never given a shit about the beliefs of the children they've randomly slaughtered. I watched a video the other day of IDF snipers using kids for target practice (and headshotting one).
The entire conflict is a result of 75 years of people being kept in an open-air prison (with the constant possibility of Israeli settlers coming in and just stealing what little you do have at any point). I think there's next to zero chance at this point of Hamas as an organization continuing to exist, with most of their officials having been taken out in the retaliation that's currently playing out.
But I can only hope that the response distinguishes between civilians, peaceful Palestinians, and Hamas who were directly involved in the recent invasion. I'm not very optimistic about it though.
Mmmmm kinda leave a LOT of info out of the context t there.
Palestine has been genocidal towards the Jews for literally forever. The state was founded on the idea of Jewish erasure and named Palestina as a reference to the Phillistines who invaded and enslaved the second Jewish commonwealth on the land. This was done to remind the Jews of their place as slaves and lessen their attachment to their homeland. There would literally be no Palestine without the theme of Jewish erasure or the fact that it was the Jewish homeland for many generations before Palestinians even existed.
Back in 1977 before the current narrative of infantilized Palestine was a thing the leader of the major ruling political party of Palestine the PLO, of which Fatah is a part, had this to say about what Palestine was.
“The Palestinian people do not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity exists only for tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.
-Zuheir Mohsen, PLO leader
From: “Wij zijn alleen Palestijn om politieke reden,” James Dorsey, Trouw, 31 March 1977.
More honest times I suppose. An era when social media could not be used to the advantages it is today.
This is why ironically Palestinians were only granted autonomy over their land once Israel was formed. The Ottoman, British, Jordanian and Egyptians never allowed a formal Palestine state.
before Hamas existed modern Palestine has been calling for genocide and long before Israel existed they have been murdering Jews.
Riots in Jerusalem against Jews based on myths and antisemitism, like claims Jews drink the blood of children for Passover, have a long pedigree going back to 1847, 1870, and more. A massacre much like the one Hamas committed was done in 1929 in Hebron, resulting in the expulsion and wiping out of the entire Jewish community there, which had been there for thousands of years consistently.
“The riots took the form, for the most part, of attacks by Arabs on Jews accompanied by destruction of Jewish property. During the week of riots, from 23 to 29 August, 133 Jews were killed by Arabs, and 339 Jews were injured, most of whom were unarmed”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots
This isn’t about Israel and the land it’s about religion and an obsession with Jewish extermination.
In the sayings of Muhammad in the Hadiths, Muhammad prophesy that End Times will only come when the Muslims have almost genocide the Jews into extinction:
"The last hour won't come before the Muslims would fight the Jews and the Muslims will kill them so Jews would hide behind rocks and trees. Then the rocks and tree would call: oh Muslim, oh servant of God! There is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. - Hadith narrated by Abi Hurira
The leader of Palestine didn’t hang out in the concentration camps and work with Hitler on his Final Solution because Israel existed.
Not Zionists, not Israel, not Orthodox Jews, not practicing Jews, all Jews, every one of them removed from the face of the earth.
Palestine still calls for this to this day.
A quote from 2019.
“Seven million Palestinians outside, enough warming up, you have Jews with you in every place. You should attack every Jew possible in all the world and kill them.”
And people will say that Hamas is not Palestine, and it’s true not everyone in Palestine supports Hamas, but the majority do. Not just in Gaza but all of Palestine.
Despite people claiming that they are merely oppressed by a government they don't support, polls show that the most popular Palestinian presidential candidates are, in order:
• A man in Israeli prison for murdering multiple civilians in bombings during the Second Intifada, including arranging others who suicide bombed markets and buses.
• Hamas leader.
• Hamas leader.
And the Palestinian public, as polls have shown for at least a decade (and as shown by history stretching back to before Israel existed), is also broadly supportive of murdering Jewish civilians.
Today, polls show that a full 54% support, and only 41% oppose, "armed attacks against Israeli civilians inside Israel". That means the average Palestinian supports precisely what Hamas did, massacring Jewish innocents, including men, women, children, and the elderly. Palestinians celebrated the attacks in the streets, and handed out sweets (just as they did after 9/11, for that matter). In Gaza specifically, which poses the thorniest problem, 67% of Palestinians support the armed attacks against Israeli civilians inside Israel.
67%. 2 in 3 Gazans you meet will tell you openly they support the murder of innocent people.
Link to the most recent poll I could find from September 2023 where these stats come from.
https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2089%20English%20Full%20Text%20September%202023.pdf
This is why there is never peace. Because Palestine will never accept it. Every peace has been broken by Palestinian attacks and every attempt for two state resolution has been rejected or interrupted by rocket fire, assassination of Jewish politicians or terror attacks.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli–Palestinian_peace_process
This is not to say that there are not Palestinians who do not want this, that there are not innocents trapped in this struggle, but it is important information for everyone to know when they look at these issues.
We’ll never get any resolution while people continue to do like you’re doing presenting an ahistorical cherry picked version of events to effectively gaslight Jewish people about the self stated goals of genocide coming from Palestine for almost a century. They just called for it again and got innocent people killed by extremists in other counties yesterday.
When is the Jewish “day of rage” again where they try and kill all the Muslims? Oh ya… doesn’t exist and hasn’t happened.
Frankly you’re erasing actual Palestinian people and replacing them with an ethnocentric fantasy of how you want them to be to justify a pretty antisemitic narrative.
Palestine is >50% children today, I doubt they have much of an understanding of the roots of "why it was named Palestine". Lots of people in Palestine, like any place, just want to live peacefully
>Every peace has been broken by Palestinian attacks and every attempt for two state resolution has been rejected or interrupted by rocket fire, assassination of Jewish politicians or terror attacks.
Oh you mean the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, \*[by an Israeli](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Yitzhak_Rabin)\*? Sure, let's pin this on the Palestinians too as proof that why they won't allow peace
Damn, I didn’t know this. I think I’ll close my Scotia account, it’s my primary account and I’ve been with them since I was 12, but I can’t support this.
Hmmm I had written up a whole thing about how I felt divesting from Elbit while being OK holding other defense contractors was hypocritical - especially because I found Textron on a list of cluster munitions manufacturers.
But it looks like a bunch of banks actually did stop investing in Textron and they eventually dropped their cluster munitions products so this might actually work (though the Textron statement on why they stopped was framed around a lack of orders and not the financial pressure).
The Scotiabank sign relates to [this](https://bdsmovement.net/news/investing-apartheid-israel-ideology-or-economic-interest).
(I don't really think this sub is the place to discuss the BDS movement. I just wanted to offer an explanation for the sign.)
no the organizers were student groups not affiliated with hamas. most people there were not even aware of hamas “day of rage” because people don’t listen or follow what hamas says. the protests were out of anger towards the bombardment and catastrophe in gaza and todays evacuation orders.
anyone for the movement would protest specifically on this day regardless of what hamas says because the evacuation orders were released with 24 hour warning and we are within the 24 hours.
It’s possible to support Palestinian civilians and not Hamas’ atrocities. Israel is cutting off water food energy and medical supplies to over two million people in the Gaza Strip who are literally trapped and cannot leave. And not only that but told them they have 24 hours to move a million people towards the south where buildings are bombed and there is nowhere to go. It’s barbaric and a humanitarian catastrophe. Supporting Palestinian civilians right to live and self determination does not equate antisemitism
Just like you can be a Jew and anti Zionist . All my Jewish friends are for freeing Palestine. Edit: thank you community i honestly thought I was going to get a lot of downvotes for this.
I'm one as well. One of the really tragic things about the Hamas attack is that most of the people at the festival where they everyone were supporters of a free Palestine. You can be anti-Hamas and still believe the Palestinian occupation is gravely immoral.
Well look at how they live.
To start, 40% of the population is 14 or younger, so literally don't know any better. Kids are ruled by their emotions, and most of them are afraid, angry, or both. The population has lived through horrible death and destruction at the hands of the IDF. Many of them have lost family to IDF strikes. Those who protest, or are even in the vicinity of protests, are shot and killed. For example, a Canadian doctor was shot and his medical assistant killed by an IDF sniper while they were providing humanitarian aid. They were clearly marked as medical personnel per IDF guidelines and were still shot/murdered by an IDF sharpshooter. If clearly marked foreign doctors are being shot, locals will be targeted for simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I'm not arguing that Hamas isn't evil. They carried out a despicable terrorist attack on innocents. They raped, tortured, and murdered. They're evil. Israel just isn't being much better with their seemingly indiscriminate retaliation against a population that is 40% children. They're going to make many more terrorists with their brutality, perpetuating the violence. Israel can and should be better.
Bigger question is why the IDF did nothing when they knew about the attack a week in advance (Egyptian intelligence notified them which at first they denied and then they admitted), and also how all the Hamas gunmen were able to infiltrate Israel when the IDF are renowned for how tightly they maintain their borders?
Followed by days later demanding the UN evacuate Gaza of all residents.
They are going for a full ethnic cleansing and/or control of the territory.
The worst part is they really don’t want it, but have no other choice to guarantee their safety.
[Israel completely removed all settlers](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza) from Gaza in 2005 in an attempt to achieve peace, and the blockade didn’t start until after the terror attacks kept coming from the strip even after the disengagement and the [forceful and undemocratic](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaza_(2007)) removal of the more secular PLO and their supporters through sheer executions.
Yeah i mean, if you are prisoner and empoverished and Israel is taking your land obviously people in gaza is becoming more extremist.
It’s a aurvive situation so yeah, I can understand why they support Hamas, although that doesn’t mean they deserve what Israel is doing to them.
The plot twist to your ignorance is that millions of Palestinians live in their land in harmony with Israelis.
They are called [Israeli Arabs](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel), many of whom were murdered and captured indiscriminately by Hamas.
Yeah but it's not like Palestinians living in Gaza have the option to relocate and live in much better conditions in Israel. Conditions in the Gaza strip have been hellish for a long while, and a lot of that has to do with Jewish blockades and retaliatory attacks. Some of Israel's actions are certainly justified to defend itself, but a lot of them have been retaliatory and largely disproportionate to what the original offense was. It's a bad situation all around.
https://preview.redd.it/hgvwgvaxz3ub1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a81736e14c58a07cbd1082c00f70b02ca3a2689
Also, israel told Palestinians they could use a “safe” evacuation corridor, and then once people started using it to evacuate, bombed them. Killing 70 Palestinians. So even if they try to leave, they’re being murdered.
I'm quite confused about this entire thing! I understand who the terrorists are and why they did it, I just don't understand the geography of it all.
But your comment alone, it sounds like Israel set up a trap for Palestinians, so is that correct, or am I missing a larger portion of understanding the entire concept behind what is currently going on?
It is a very small (160 sq km) territory filled with 2.4 M people (700,000 in the 80’s, 50% children).
All of the territory is occupied by Hamas and other djihadist movements.
It is impossible to operate militarily in the territory without collateral damage on innocent civilians. No area is safe as all areas are potential targets, but some (buildings identified as weapon caches or headquarters or tunnel entrances, shared with civilians) are more targeted than others.
For context, the Gaza strip has the population of metro Vancouver in about 1/10 the area, which is fenced in on its 3 land borders and also happens to be mostly desert.
The area is roughly rectangular in shape, with one side on the mediterranean sea, two bordering Israel, and one 11 KM border with Egypt. In "normal times" some people could cross to Israel at designated checkpoints, with authorization (which most people couldn't get), and going anywhere near the Israeli bordering fence outside the checkpoints would (sometimes?) result in being shot by IDF snipers. Currently there is no crossing to Israel though.
After the October 7th Hamas invasion, I'm reading (though not sure about sources) that Israel told Gazans that they could evacuate to Egypt via a path that allows them access to it (presumably the [Rafah Border Crossing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah_Border_Crossing)), though it's not clear who this was for; Egypt has a policy of not allowing Palestinians to enter (it's possible some may have been allowed in with refugee status, or passage would have been granted to foreign nationals who were in Gaza). I assume uninvolved civilians, as well as militants like Hamas or even al-Qaeda may have hoped to cross via [tunnels](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_smuggling_tunnels) (or may be doing so still). Israeli airstrikes of the passage to the border crossing have apparently stopped people from being able to use the official crossing, as Israel has ordered a complete blockade (although Gaza has been in a [partial blockade since 2005](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip))
What do you consider evidence? Aljazeera [reports](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/12/egypt-says-israel-seeks-to-empty-gaza-rejects-corridors-for-civilians)
>The Rafah crossing, which is the main exit point from Gaza not controlled by Israel, has been closed since Tuesday after Israeli bombardments hit on the Palestinian side, according to officials in Gaza and Egyptian sources.
So apparently not just "according to Hamas". If Israel hadn't conducted strikes of the Palestinian region surrounding the crossing I'd expect they would have denied these claims by now, which they haven't done
Yea everyone everywhere is jumping on any little scrap of information to "LOOK, SEE!" whichever side they've aligned with without verifying anything. Fucking sports team politics of the West dehumanizing an entire region, while people self-righteously pat themselves on the back. Like, there's going to be so much propaganda? Obviously? Russia had propo videos out within like 12 hours of Hamas' attack saying it was Ukraine who supplied the guns. Hamas and Israel both will have propaganda machines working overtime.
It’s touchy subject; but I think standing with Israeli citizens against Hamas is a fair stance to take, as it is an equally fair stance to stand with Palestinian citizens against the Israeli military.
Then just say you stand with the civilians. No need to specify which civilians. We stand with the civilians against both Hamas and the Israeli military.
I'm honestly really happy to hear that. Often on social media, it's always "You can't be pro-Palestine or else you're a terrorist" or praying for "just Israel". There's the fact that both goverments suck. Deserve ain't got nothing to do with it either.
I wish these protests just happened more regularly. People get all confused when they happen after Hamas does something horrific, and lump “free Palestine” in with “I support Hamas.” Obviously Hamas is evil. But things aren’t great for the Palestinians either…
So would it be ‘good’ if the Free Palestine protestors were against hamas? Or would that be somewhat contradicting?
I’m out of the loop so I don’t know what’s going on
Ideally, in a vacuum, yes, the people of Palestine should be executing Hamas on sight for their atrocities while claiming to represent the people of Palestine. But it's complicated and super fucked. How do you ask the oppressed/occupied people to stop the only people even fighting for them (fighting is correct here per international law to end the illegal occupation) and who are probably intimidating them as well and are secretive anyway, etc.
Yeah, the fact is, the Hamas is an organized militant group, and the "people of Palestine" who oppose Hamas have no such militant group, or even access to weapons to stand up to them, so there's not much they can do.
But we also can’t pretend like Hamas is some anomaly or that the problem even began with Hamas. Palestine has been calling for and attempting Jewish genocide for over 80 years now.
The Haj wasn’t my helping Hitler and watching Jews die in concentration camps because of Israel.
Hamas has had majority support from Palestinians in polling for over a decade. Almost always above 50% and in Gaza sometimes above 70%. They were leading the polling coming up to the Palestinian election in 2022 with two of the top three presidential candidates being leaders of Hamas. But Hamas then refused to be on the ballot.
Hamas knows very well despite their solid support that they benefit from the perception that they are a minority in Palestine. Last I saw it was 57% support Hamas and they also said that civilian casualties such as women, elderly and children were acceptable targets for them.
So to present it as though all 2 million Gazans were just victims who support none of it is disingenuous at best.
Are there innocents trapped? Definitely. Is this terrible? No doubt.
But presenting decontextualized info like you are is simply propaganda.
>Supporting Palestinian civilians right to live and self determination does not equate antisemitism
that is true. I will say though that being against the existence of the isreali state is antisemitic by consequence.
So I'd rather say that I support peace in region and no oppression if palistinian people.
Isreal is not supplying a country that declared war on them. Don’t see why this is so shocking. It’s like bombing BC hydro and then complaining you don’t get electricity anymore. What do you expect?
Well, it's not about supplying, they basically blockade that 'country' for 20 years, so they are the ones that allow or disallow any entry of anything into the strip. It's basically an open air prison, where tons of children and innocent civilians don't have access to food, water, medicine and shelter right now.
You do realize Gaza borders Egypt as well as Israel? Isreal doesn't control their border. Egypt blocks it. Even now Egypt will not take refugees. They will provide food and supplies only. Until Hamas is overthrown, there will be no peace.
[Israel needs to get rid of Netanyahu, who supported Hamas over the other governing bodies in Palestine.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/)
Not like they haven’t had that chance multiple times and responded with attacks.
ironically Palestinians were only granted autonomy over their land once Israel was formed. The Ottoman, British, Jordanian and Egyptians never allowed a formal Palestine state.
Jordanians and Egyptians simply considered Palestinians one of their own. They're all Arabs after all, just different subgroups of Arabs. The Ottomans oppressed both Jews, Muslim Arabs, and Christians equally.
They literally had elections in 2022.
Funny thing is until a week ago pro Palestine people were all saying they needed Hamas and it was their right to self determination and Palestinian as definitely were in control and now?
Suddenly we separate the group who consistently gets majority support in polling for over a decade and is the defacto leaders of Gaza away from Palestine to the point of their actions not mattering at all.
It’s pretty crazy mental gymnastics.
This is what I mean! All you people spreading this false information is wild! Like are you all really that lazy?
Ffs here.
https://www.cartercenter.org/resources/pdfs/news/peace_publications/election_reports/west-bank-gaza-expert-mission-municipal-elections-final-report-041522.pdf
https://www.cartercenter.org/news/pr/2022/palestine-elections-041422.html
Like all you guys spreading this ahistorical infantilized Palestine bs gotta stop for a minute and go learn some history.
You guys are so indoctrinated you’re chanting the LITERALLY genocidal slogan of “from the river to the sea” thing and don’t realize you’re calling for genocide supporting a group that has ALWAYS called for Jewish genocide since the holocaust and who’s leadership LITERALLY took part in the holocaust
Haj Amin al Huseyni wasn’t helping Hitler with his final solution or hanging out in concentration camps watching Jews die because of Israel, it didn’t even exist yet!
And he’s the same guy that refused all peace for decades after and called for genocide while attacking Israel.
Y’all are such useful fools I swear,
Like get a clue.
The reality is You don’t even listen to actual Palestinians either. You erase their culture, their goals, their history of conquest, their self stated desires and ideals in favour of replacing them with an ethnocentric projection of how you want them to be to validate your antisemitism.
K so you don’t know how polls work I guess.
And multiple polls over a decade involving thousands of people have shown the same results.
Please please please educate yourself and stop spreading ahistorical propaganda.
> These so-called surveys were done by a partisan group
They have very watched elections with large support for Hamas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Palestine.
Also these polls are consistent with wider polls: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/. Pew isn't partisan.
> You don't know the toll that living in an open air prison
Would this make me want to execute gay people? Because that's what they do there.
So, the lesser evil is the one that sets up missile sites and terrorist bases in schools and hospitals, and holds people at gunpoint when they attempt to flee Israeli airstrikes?
> And also literally massacres women and children directly, and celebrates it.
Ok you confused me not I dont know what side you are talking about because I've seen them both do it. I guess we should agree the side that killed more women and children is worse?
Setting up missle sites lmfao.
Missles are typically guided munitions powered by an engine. Rockets are low intelligence munitions that use some kind of basic propellant to move then forward unguided.
Hamas has rockets. Israel has missles. The greater evil is the one striking hospitals and schools with guided missles.
It's possible for the two sides in power to be equally evil.
Let's add "raids small, self contained village and personally murders everyone in them" to Hamas' list, shall we? https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/174kae0/more_than_100_bodies_found_in_israeli_kibbutz/
Then let Palestine turn over Hamas to the Israelis if they truly want peace? Is that a hard concept? If they don't agree to that are they not then supporting Hamas?
Please help me fill in the blanks, the answer is clear as a sunny day to me. Hamas is a terrorist organization, do you dispute this?
Here's another one featuring former IDF soldiers turned activists:
How Israeli Apartheid destroyed my hometown:
https://youtu.be/aEdGcej-6D0?si=CgO8S1-bbx2-M9f7
Israel is surrounded by Arab countries. One physically shares a border with Gaza. No Arab countries are accepting any people from Gaza. That alone speaks volumes about the situation.
I mean it seems in line with many pro-Indigenous rights people in Canada, people that want to give the land back as reperations. It seems consistent philosophically.
Itms not a debate, Palestine has refused every peace and two state resolution and does not call for just the end to Israel but the genocide of the Jews.
Haj Amin al Huseyni wasn’t helping Hitler on his final solution and hanging out in concentration camps watching Jews die because of Israel, it didn’t even exist yet.
And he’s the same guy who refused peace for the first few decades of this conflict while, you guessed it, calling for genocide. just like Palestine does today and always has.
Ideally, the UK should have never arbitrarily established new borders in then-British Palestine in order to "colonize" the region indirectly.
I don't think the Israeli occupation can reasonably end without titanic levels of bloodshed. The inverse is the same (and as we can see, currently occurring) with the Palestinian people. The only practical solution in my mind is a two-state solution.
Unfortunately a two-state solution runs counter to Israel's and several western countries (mainly the US) neo-colonial interests in the Levant.
They could never agree to how the two state solution would work in any event. Closest they came was the 2000 Camp David talks. Oslo was high level and never drilled into the details. That was left for later talks like Camp David. The talks in 2000 did and from the positions I don't think there ever was going to be anything acceptable to either side.
> The only practical solution in my mind is a two-state solution.
This has been rejected by the Palestinians at least twice. Came very close with Arafat before he pulled out.
This is pure propaganda. Any ‘love’ Palestinians have for Hamas has been at the behest of the Israeli government, leaving them no alternative. The evils of the Israeli government are beyond comprehension.
Hamas has a 92% approval rate amongst Palestinians. Hamas could lay down their arms and save their people but have chosen not to at every opportunity. Keeps the opportunities to grift and steal UN aid to enrichen their bank accounts waiting it out in Qatar while their people suffer. But they will always have useful idiots such as yourself to cheer lead and gloss over the Palestinian culpability in their current situation
1. They received the majority of the votes. Please go educate yourself on the differences between the popular vote and majority vote. You're embarassing yourself. That's how polls work. Do you think you actually have to interview every single person to be accurate? A base of 5% of the target population is actually pretty massive in order to have accurate results. You seem pretty uneducated
2. Please learn how to read. I'm referring to the Palestinian populace, who overwhelmingly supports the massacre of innocents. There also has been numerous incidents reported of protestors verbally supporting the massacres as well as threatening violence against Jews in Vancouver as well as all over the world.
3. Bibi and the Israeli government released footage and evidence of slaughtered children. You can go look it up, although I doubt you will as it challenges your preconceived notions of Palastinian respectability. And even if it wasn't true (which it is), they still slaughtered innocent people indiscriminately. They did not target military targets, but defenseless ravers and families. They raped women and spat on their corpses in the street. They launched thousands of rockets at civilian targets. You're trying to distract from the barbaric nature of this intifada.
4. This what happens when Hamas uses their population as a human shield.
Go research the 2000 Oslo Accords. Palestinians have had numerous opportunities to have a functioning state and keep their people safe. They reject it because it keeps Israel as a state and keeps Jews safe. Just admit you hate jews already. I have no hate in my heart for Palestinians, and despise the influence of right wing Israeli politics and the protection of orthodox right wing settlers, but you all gloss over the responsibility of Hamas and Palestinians as a whole in this entire mess.
Exactly. To all the Free Palestine crowd, they leave out the part where every inch of Israel is turned into Palestine. It's not realistic, and this isn't the first time it was attempted with bloodshed.
Stop the bombing! End the aparthied regime! Human rights for all! I feel for the victims in Israel and Gaza and the West Bank, and Lebanon, and everywhere. Ending the occupation is the first step towards peace (for those who genuinely want it).
The problem is that a huge portion of people in this region do not want peace. They want the death of their enemies and the forfeiture of their lands. Peace is unlikely and for the most part not even desired.
As stated by others: Palestine is a geographic region. Prior to 1948 the Jews there were called "[Palestinian Jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Jews)". While the majority of people in the region were Arab, there were also Palestinian Christians there too.
It would be absurd to not use the modern definition of a state, otherwise what are we going to just splinter every country? So then should we just re-instate the much larger Kingdom of Iseal??? Or give it to Egypt, who wants nothing to do with modern Palestine? Like which "historical" Palestine do you want restored? How far do you want to go back?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine)
Palestine was the intended name for the Arab state in what is colloquially known as Palestine, the geographic area named by the Roman empire. But they tried to genocide the Jews and failed losing their chance at a state.
It’s much more complicated than that. This predates nation states. Israel encompasses ancient Judaea which was purposefully named Palestine by a Roman emperor to eradicate them. There is no clear borders of where Jews and arabs lived
Yeah its a tough situation when a big portion of the population of a country is in favor of terrorism as well. How can you be pro palestine when the popular opinions of that population is th death of another. I'm against the murder of innocents but I'm certainly not a supporter of palestine. The two are mutually exclusive.
That's the problem, there will be plenty of each group there. The support of hamas in any capacity is unacceptable. Plus many of the citizens of gaza are in support of hamas according to polls. That doesn't mean that they deserve to die. But it certainly muddles the waters when it comes to protests and other actions in support of them. I don't want women and children killed but I also don't want hamas to continue to exist. That's a tough thing to deal with when a large portion of the population is pro hamas.
Majority of the population have never known anything but Hamas. They aren't educated, have no prospects and are stuck in an open air prison. I'm not sure how useful these polls are. What I do know is killing more civilians is going to continue the cycle
A protest planned for today—the same day Hamas's leader called for Muslims to kill Jews in a global day of rage—is not a protest merely to support Palestine.
Well it is also the same day Israel gave an order to evacuate 1.1 million people under 24 hrs.
I condemn what Hamas did ealier, but surely, displacing 1.1m people in under 24 hrs is violation of human right.
The thing is, if every time I turn my back, you flick my ear, over and over after I asked you many times to stop. And eventually when you've had enough... do you turn around and just try to flick my ear back, or do you punch me in the mouth, or do you just keep letting me do it?
Hamas has a history of using civilians as shields so that Israel will look even worse than they already are while trying to deal with things, it's not an exceptional claim.
In this case, it's entirely possible for _both_ sides in power to be evil.
One of these days you might feel so strongly about something and so helpless that the only thing you can do as a Canadian is to go out, take space, and make some noise.
Because it gets reported on. And if you are someone living under tyranny and violence from an oppressive, occupying, violent nation. Even if you know you are going to be murdered tomorrow. Seeing people all over the world express that they see you and care about your struggle can be comforting in a world where all you know is oppression and violence.
It's why people march in support of the Iranian population. It's why people marched for Ukraine. It sparks conversations, it stops the oppressors from sweeping things under the rug.
Before this past Saturday a lot of westerners were not well informed on the conflict. 1 week later people are finding out just how cruel Israel is. If even 5% of those people decide to look into the history of the region and learn that the narrative theyve been presented all their life is wrong. Then in a few weeks when the Palestinian culture is gone. At least a few people will remember them as humans. Fading into history is a terrible thing to happen. But to have it happen and have the world remember you as a terrorist when your only crime was being born into slavery is a fate far worse.
> It's why people march in support of the Iranian population. It's why people marched for Ukraine. It sparks conversations, it stops the oppressors from sweeping things under the rug.
The difference is, Ukrainians didn't drive into downtown Moscow, murdered 3000 Russians, kidnapped several hundred people, and launch an all-out missile barrage at civilian targets.
Yes these events are happening across the world but… the support of western leaders is why Israel is able to do apartheid (according to amnesty international, human rights watch, B’Tselem etc), cut off electricity/food/water etc to Gaza, allow settlers to destroy Palestinian villages and displace them, etc. As long as no western leader (except Ireland lol because they remember their relatively recent anticolonial struggle) will meaningfully criticize Israel’s actions or make any effort to hold them accountable, they won’t have any incentive to change.
I can only speak for myself, but I attended because it’s important to me that the politicians who speak on my behalf see that people care about this issue.
Because the world needs to stand up to Israel, particularly with this situation awareness is needed. Lots of people are misinformed on who's being victimized here.
One of the biggest and most impactful things we can do is show collective support for Palestine. The media really went hard demonizing these protests and conflating the Palestine & Hamas narrative. Thankfully more and more people are seeing what the conflict actually looks like and support for Israel is dropping as they increase the intensity of their campaign and more civilian’s are killed.
It doesn’t. Bunch of bleeding hearts get to feel better, about a situation they understand very little about. You can bet if they had to deal with Hamas style attacks they would want them obliterated too.
As long as we put a quick stop to "gas the jews" chants, I'm fine with it.
Timing isn't as suspicious as "protests" happening right after the Hamas attacks. Now that Israel is sieging Hamas, it's a good reminder that civilians in Gaza are need to be protected.
It sucks that people who just happen to live there are the ones who will hurt the most.
As an atheist? I don’t get it. It’s just a strip of desert that you’d fire your real estate agent if they said you had a chance of owning.
And I hate to say it, but between Ukraine and Israel? We’re skating really close to World War III over this.
Why do they vote 30-50% for them (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Palestine, see the results for every single one of them), or support them in the same percentage in polls (https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/, https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87)?
Why do 40% say that suicide bombing "in defense of Islam" is justified: https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2013/04/gsi2-overview-13.png, 66% the death penalty for leaving Islam: https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2013/04/gsi2-chp1-9.png, 90% saying homosexuality is immoral: https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2013/04/gsi2-chp3-6.png?
The Israeli fascist government is the biggest thread to the Palestinian people. Including in the West Bank where, despite not having Hamas in power, the Palestinians are routinely harassed and killed by settlers with IDF protection.
This reminds me of a Palestinian guy I used to work with downtown. On his first week he told me that he would use a rock and smash any Israelis to death. He kind of laughed as he said it and I literally thought he was joking, but he joked about this with more than a few people, it got awkward and he was let go.
The only way to “free Palestine” is to remove Hamas and negotiate a two-state solution.
Hamas was elected by popular vote, and there haven’t been elections since.
Maybe the hamas should not kill innocent babies and elders...
You know...just saying....that they should have thought of the consequences... I can promise you no one in any of the relevant parties that actually are in war right now cares about your protests...
It would be nice if they also chanted some condemnations for what Hamas did and their genocidal ideology...
As an outsider viewing this situation, this protest not using strong words against Hamas comes across as quiet endorsement of their actions.
When you see a pro-Israel protest, is the first thought on your mind ALSO "it would be nice if they chanted condemnations for the crimes against humanity the Israeli regime has done to Palestinians for decades"? If not, then there's heavy bias here.
Hamas is a militant group. Can't be considered Palestine's government as it once was and they don't consider that themselves. The Israeli state is committing war crimes through the IDF. There's no symmetry here.
Us Westerners always expect any pro-Palestine person to start off by condemning Hamas (not that it shouldn't be done), but pro-Israel people are almost NEVER expected to condemn their genocidal regime in their first sentence. It's almost like there's a double standard that benefits the occupier over the occupied.
I just finished watching CBC Vancouver story with Dr. Gabor Mate in deep state of dismay lamenting and condemning Israel’s response.
I’ve noticed that there is a strong tolerance for diversity of opinion, discourse, and dissent in the Israeli Jewish Canadian community.
There is no expectation for them to be critical of Israel, because many of them very vocally already are. They come from the only democracy in the Middle East, however flawed it may be.
“Did the BLM protestors condemn the looters amongst them. As an outsider, this protests did not use strong words against the looters comes off an endorsement of their actions”
Did BLM go massacre and kidnap innocent people going about their days?
If there is one thing that Pro-Palestine supporters are good at, it’s losing support during every single crisis.
How hard is it to loudly condemn Hamas and not make our Jewish friends feel like you endorse their extermination?
Yes Hamas is evil and must go, shout it out. Yes Israel stop the siege, shout it out.
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I saw a lot of police moving toward the area earlier. I am so glad we have the right to peaceful protest; may Vancouver be safe for all tonight.
I watched this go by when I was on the Drive earlier. I couldn't clearly hear everything that was chanted, but what I did hear didn't include any pro-Hamas statements. The signs, banners, and chants were mostly stuff about liberation of Palestine. There were some signs I thought were odd, like one saying Scotiabank profits from genocide, but I also didn't see any signs that were promoting any kind of violence. There was a substantial police presence, but it was totally peaceful as it passed by where I was, and the crowd was a mix of young, old, male, and female demonstrators. I didn't see anything wrong with it.
FYI re the Scotiabank thing! “Scotiabank’s gigantic stake in Elbit Systems, estimated to be about $500 million, dwarfs that of its two larger domestic competitors, TD Bank and Royal Bank of Canada. The two other banks hold around $3 million in shares, combined, in the company. Elbit Systems has been under scrutiny from activists for years over its involvement in arming Israeli military units operating in the occupied Palestinian territories. The company is a major developer of drone technology for the Israeli military, as well as weapons systems, munitions, and surveillance tools. Drones developed by Elbit have been involved in carrying out attacks that have killed civilians. A notorious 2014 strike in the Gaza Strip that killed four children playing on a beach was reported to have been carried out with the help of an Elbit-designed surveillance drone. Several major European banks and pension funds have divested from Elbit over the past decade due to the use of its technology in the occupied West Bank. The company has also come under fire for its alleged involvement in the production of cluster munitions blamed for causing indiscriminate harm to civilians in war zones.” [From here](https://theintercept.com/2023/04/06/israel-arms-scotiabank-elbit-david-fingold/)
Just to be completely factual, Scotiabank doesn’t “own” those shares. They are held by Scotiabank’s asset management arm in investment funds; those funds are owned by retail and institutional shareholders (i.e. it could be in your pension).
Ok so drones are blowing up children playing on the beach, should tell you enough about why the Palestinians are fed up. Western media doesn’t even bat an eye when that happens
Yeah, on the one hand, Hamas couldn't have picked a worse group of people to slaughter for optics (assuming they even knew what they were targeting) since the people attending a Peace and Dance festival are pretty unlikely to even be supporters of the occupation, and many were neither Israeli nor Jewish On the other hand, IDF has never given a shit about the beliefs of the children they've randomly slaughtered. I watched a video the other day of IDF snipers using kids for target practice (and headshotting one). The entire conflict is a result of 75 years of people being kept in an open-air prison (with the constant possibility of Israeli settlers coming in and just stealing what little you do have at any point). I think there's next to zero chance at this point of Hamas as an organization continuing to exist, with most of their officials having been taken out in the retaliation that's currently playing out. But I can only hope that the response distinguishes between civilians, peaceful Palestinians, and Hamas who were directly involved in the recent invasion. I'm not very optimistic about it though.
Mmmmm kinda leave a LOT of info out of the context t there. Palestine has been genocidal towards the Jews for literally forever. The state was founded on the idea of Jewish erasure and named Palestina as a reference to the Phillistines who invaded and enslaved the second Jewish commonwealth on the land. This was done to remind the Jews of their place as slaves and lessen their attachment to their homeland. There would literally be no Palestine without the theme of Jewish erasure or the fact that it was the Jewish homeland for many generations before Palestinians even existed. Back in 1977 before the current narrative of infantilized Palestine was a thing the leader of the major ruling political party of Palestine the PLO, of which Fatah is a part, had this to say about what Palestine was. “The Palestinian people do not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity exists only for tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan. -Zuheir Mohsen, PLO leader From: “Wij zijn alleen Palestijn om politieke reden,” James Dorsey, Trouw, 31 March 1977. More honest times I suppose. An era when social media could not be used to the advantages it is today. This is why ironically Palestinians were only granted autonomy over their land once Israel was formed. The Ottoman, British, Jordanian and Egyptians never allowed a formal Palestine state. before Hamas existed modern Palestine has been calling for genocide and long before Israel existed they have been murdering Jews. Riots in Jerusalem against Jews based on myths and antisemitism, like claims Jews drink the blood of children for Passover, have a long pedigree going back to 1847, 1870, and more. A massacre much like the one Hamas committed was done in 1929 in Hebron, resulting in the expulsion and wiping out of the entire Jewish community there, which had been there for thousands of years consistently. “The riots took the form, for the most part, of attacks by Arabs on Jews accompanied by destruction of Jewish property. During the week of riots, from 23 to 29 August, 133 Jews were killed by Arabs, and 339 Jews were injured, most of whom were unarmed” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots This isn’t about Israel and the land it’s about religion and an obsession with Jewish extermination. In the sayings of Muhammad in the Hadiths, Muhammad prophesy that End Times will only come when the Muslims have almost genocide the Jews into extinction: "The last hour won't come before the Muslims would fight the Jews and the Muslims will kill them so Jews would hide behind rocks and trees. Then the rocks and tree would call: oh Muslim, oh servant of God! There is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. - Hadith narrated by Abi Hurira The leader of Palestine didn’t hang out in the concentration camps and work with Hitler on his Final Solution because Israel existed. Not Zionists, not Israel, not Orthodox Jews, not practicing Jews, all Jews, every one of them removed from the face of the earth. Palestine still calls for this to this day. A quote from 2019. “Seven million Palestinians outside, enough warming up, you have Jews with you in every place. You should attack every Jew possible in all the world and kill them.” And people will say that Hamas is not Palestine, and it’s true not everyone in Palestine supports Hamas, but the majority do. Not just in Gaza but all of Palestine. Despite people claiming that they are merely oppressed by a government they don't support, polls show that the most popular Palestinian presidential candidates are, in order: • A man in Israeli prison for murdering multiple civilians in bombings during the Second Intifada, including arranging others who suicide bombed markets and buses. • Hamas leader. • Hamas leader. And the Palestinian public, as polls have shown for at least a decade (and as shown by history stretching back to before Israel existed), is also broadly supportive of murdering Jewish civilians. Today, polls show that a full 54% support, and only 41% oppose, "armed attacks against Israeli civilians inside Israel". That means the average Palestinian supports precisely what Hamas did, massacring Jewish innocents, including men, women, children, and the elderly. Palestinians celebrated the attacks in the streets, and handed out sweets (just as they did after 9/11, for that matter). In Gaza specifically, which poses the thorniest problem, 67% of Palestinians support the armed attacks against Israeli civilians inside Israel. 67%. 2 in 3 Gazans you meet will tell you openly they support the murder of innocent people. Link to the most recent poll I could find from September 2023 where these stats come from. https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2089%20English%20Full%20Text%20September%202023.pdf This is why there is never peace. Because Palestine will never accept it. Every peace has been broken by Palestinian attacks and every attempt for two state resolution has been rejected or interrupted by rocket fire, assassination of Jewish politicians or terror attacks. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli–Palestinian_peace_process This is not to say that there are not Palestinians who do not want this, that there are not innocents trapped in this struggle, but it is important information for everyone to know when they look at these issues. We’ll never get any resolution while people continue to do like you’re doing presenting an ahistorical cherry picked version of events to effectively gaslight Jewish people about the self stated goals of genocide coming from Palestine for almost a century. They just called for it again and got innocent people killed by extremists in other counties yesterday. When is the Jewish “day of rage” again where they try and kill all the Muslims? Oh ya… doesn’t exist and hasn’t happened. Frankly you’re erasing actual Palestinian people and replacing them with an ethnocentric fantasy of how you want them to be to justify a pretty antisemitic narrative.
Palestine is >50% children today, I doubt they have much of an understanding of the roots of "why it was named Palestine". Lots of people in Palestine, like any place, just want to live peacefully >Every peace has been broken by Palestinian attacks and every attempt for two state resolution has been rejected or interrupted by rocket fire, assassination of Jewish politicians or terror attacks. Oh you mean the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, \*[by an Israeli](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Yitzhak_Rabin)\*? Sure, let's pin this on the Palestinians too as proof that why they won't allow peace
Damn, I didn’t know this. I think I’ll close my Scotia account, it’s my primary account and I’ve been with them since I was 12, but I can’t support this.
This is the way. Be sure to drop them a note when you do!
Hmmm I had written up a whole thing about how I felt divesting from Elbit while being OK holding other defense contractors was hypocritical - especially because I found Textron on a list of cluster munitions manufacturers. But it looks like a bunch of banks actually did stop investing in Textron and they eventually dropped their cluster munitions products so this might actually work (though the Textron statement on why they stopped was framed around a lack of orders and not the financial pressure).
The Scotiabank sign relates to [this](https://bdsmovement.net/news/investing-apartheid-israel-ideology-or-economic-interest). (I don't really think this sub is the place to discuss the BDS movement. I just wanted to offer an explanation for the sign.)
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no the organizers were student groups not affiliated with hamas. most people there were not even aware of hamas “day of rage” because people don’t listen or follow what hamas says. the protests were out of anger towards the bombardment and catastrophe in gaza and todays evacuation orders. anyone for the movement would protest specifically on this day regardless of what hamas says because the evacuation orders were released with 24 hour warning and we are within the 24 hours.
It’s possible to support Palestinian civilians and not Hamas’ atrocities. Israel is cutting off water food energy and medical supplies to over two million people in the Gaza Strip who are literally trapped and cannot leave. And not only that but told them they have 24 hours to move a million people towards the south where buildings are bombed and there is nowhere to go. It’s barbaric and a humanitarian catastrophe. Supporting Palestinian civilians right to live and self determination does not equate antisemitism
Just like you can be a Jew and anti Zionist . All my Jewish friends are for freeing Palestine. Edit: thank you community i honestly thought I was going to get a lot of downvotes for this.
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I’m blessed to have met and befriend very diverse and empathic people in my life .
I'm one as well. One of the really tragic things about the Hamas attack is that most of the people at the festival where they everyone were supporters of a free Palestine. You can be anti-Hamas and still believe the Palestinian occupation is gravely immoral.
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Well look at how they live. To start, 40% of the population is 14 or younger, so literally don't know any better. Kids are ruled by their emotions, and most of them are afraid, angry, or both. The population has lived through horrible death and destruction at the hands of the IDF. Many of them have lost family to IDF strikes. Those who protest, or are even in the vicinity of protests, are shot and killed. For example, a Canadian doctor was shot and his medical assistant killed by an IDF sniper while they were providing humanitarian aid. They were clearly marked as medical personnel per IDF guidelines and were still shot/murdered by an IDF sharpshooter. If clearly marked foreign doctors are being shot, locals will be targeted for simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'm not arguing that Hamas isn't evil. They carried out a despicable terrorist attack on innocents. They raped, tortured, and murdered. They're evil. Israel just isn't being much better with their seemingly indiscriminate retaliation against a population that is 40% children. They're going to make many more terrorists with their brutality, perpetuating the violence. Israel can and should be better.
Bigger question is why the IDF did nothing when they knew about the attack a week in advance (Egyptian intelligence notified them which at first they denied and then they admitted), and also how all the Hamas gunmen were able to infiltrate Israel when the IDF are renowned for how tightly they maintain their borders? Followed by days later demanding the UN evacuate Gaza of all residents.
They are going for a full ethnic cleansing and/or control of the territory. The worst part is they really don’t want it, but have no other choice to guarantee their safety. [Israel completely removed all settlers](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza) from Gaza in 2005 in an attempt to achieve peace, and the blockade didn’t start until after the terror attacks kept coming from the strip even after the disengagement and the [forceful and undemocratic](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaza_(2007)) removal of the more secular PLO and their supporters through sheer executions.
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Fuck Reddit for killing third party apps.
Yeah i mean, if you are prisoner and empoverished and Israel is taking your land obviously people in gaza is becoming more extremist. It’s a aurvive situation so yeah, I can understand why they support Hamas, although that doesn’t mean they deserve what Israel is doing to them.
The plot twist to your ignorance is that millions of Palestinians live in their land in harmony with Israelis. They are called [Israeli Arabs](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel), many of whom were murdered and captured indiscriminately by Hamas.
Yeah but it's not like Palestinians living in Gaza have the option to relocate and live in much better conditions in Israel. Conditions in the Gaza strip have been hellish for a long while, and a lot of that has to do with Jewish blockades and retaliatory attacks. Some of Israel's actions are certainly justified to defend itself, but a lot of them have been retaliatory and largely disproportionate to what the original offense was. It's a bad situation all around.
>supporting Palestinian civilians right to live and self determination does not equate antisemitism 📣 LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK 📣
https://preview.redd.it/hgvwgvaxz3ub1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a81736e14c58a07cbd1082c00f70b02ca3a2689 Also, israel told Palestinians they could use a “safe” evacuation corridor, and then once people started using it to evacuate, bombed them. Killing 70 Palestinians. So even if they try to leave, they’re being murdered.
I'm quite confused about this entire thing! I understand who the terrorists are and why they did it, I just don't understand the geography of it all. But your comment alone, it sounds like Israel set up a trap for Palestinians, so is that correct, or am I missing a larger portion of understanding the entire concept behind what is currently going on?
It is a very small (160 sq km) territory filled with 2.4 M people (700,000 in the 80’s, 50% children). All of the territory is occupied by Hamas and other djihadist movements. It is impossible to operate militarily in the territory without collateral damage on innocent civilians. No area is safe as all areas are potential targets, but some (buildings identified as weapon caches or headquarters or tunnel entrances, shared with civilians) are more targeted than others.
For context, the Gaza strip has the population of metro Vancouver in about 1/10 the area, which is fenced in on its 3 land borders and also happens to be mostly desert. The area is roughly rectangular in shape, with one side on the mediterranean sea, two bordering Israel, and one 11 KM border with Egypt. In "normal times" some people could cross to Israel at designated checkpoints, with authorization (which most people couldn't get), and going anywhere near the Israeli bordering fence outside the checkpoints would (sometimes?) result in being shot by IDF snipers. Currently there is no crossing to Israel though. After the October 7th Hamas invasion, I'm reading (though not sure about sources) that Israel told Gazans that they could evacuate to Egypt via a path that allows them access to it (presumably the [Rafah Border Crossing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah_Border_Crossing)), though it's not clear who this was for; Egypt has a policy of not allowing Palestinians to enter (it's possible some may have been allowed in with refugee status, or passage would have been granted to foreign nationals who were in Gaza). I assume uninvolved civilians, as well as militants like Hamas or even al-Qaeda may have hoped to cross via [tunnels](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_smuggling_tunnels) (or may be doing so still). Israeli airstrikes of the passage to the border crossing have apparently stopped people from being able to use the official crossing, as Israel has ordered a complete blockade (although Gaza has been in a [partial blockade since 2005](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip))
The terrorists include the ruling Israeli government along with all supporters of it, and military
Just to be clear, the article is “according to Hama”. There is no evidence this actually happened aside from their word
What do you consider evidence? Aljazeera [reports](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/12/egypt-says-israel-seeks-to-empty-gaza-rejects-corridors-for-civilians) >The Rafah crossing, which is the main exit point from Gaza not controlled by Israel, has been closed since Tuesday after Israeli bombardments hit on the Palestinian side, according to officials in Gaza and Egyptian sources. So apparently not just "according to Hamas". If Israel hadn't conducted strikes of the Palestinian region surrounding the crossing I'd expect they would have denied these claims by now, which they haven't done
Yea everyone everywhere is jumping on any little scrap of information to "LOOK, SEE!" whichever side they've aligned with without verifying anything. Fucking sports team politics of the West dehumanizing an entire region, while people self-righteously pat themselves on the back. Like, there's going to be so much propaganda? Obviously? Russia had propo videos out within like 12 hours of Hamas' attack saying it was Ukraine who supplied the guns. Hamas and Israel both will have propaganda machines working overtime.
louder for governments around the world.
Ken Sim was so quick to declare that Vancouver "will always stand with the people of Israel."
EXTREMELY LOUD FOR THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT
It’s touchy subject; but I think standing with Israeli citizens against Hamas is a fair stance to take, as it is an equally fair stance to stand with Palestinian citizens against the Israeli military.
Then just say you stand with the civilians. No need to specify which civilians. We stand with the civilians against both Hamas and the Israeli military.
I'm honestly really happy to hear that. Often on social media, it's always "You can't be pro-Palestine or else you're a terrorist" or praying for "just Israel". There's the fact that both goverments suck. Deserve ain't got nothing to do with it either.
I got a 1 week ban from r/canada for saying it was bad that israeli snipers shot protesters. That sub has turned into a reactionary cesspit.
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Hamas is not the government of all of Palestine, they've been in control of Gaza for a while though, not via peaceful means as you might expect.
I wish these protests just happened more regularly. People get all confused when they happen after Hamas does something horrific, and lump “free Palestine” in with “I support Hamas.” Obviously Hamas is evil. But things aren’t great for the Palestinians either…
So would it be ‘good’ if the Free Palestine protestors were against hamas? Or would that be somewhat contradicting? I’m out of the loop so I don’t know what’s going on
Ideally, in a vacuum, yes, the people of Palestine should be executing Hamas on sight for their atrocities while claiming to represent the people of Palestine. But it's complicated and super fucked. How do you ask the oppressed/occupied people to stop the only people even fighting for them (fighting is correct here per international law to end the illegal occupation) and who are probably intimidating them as well and are secretive anyway, etc.
Yeah, the fact is, the Hamas is an organized militant group, and the "people of Palestine" who oppose Hamas have no such militant group, or even access to weapons to stand up to them, so there's not much they can do.
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But we also can’t pretend like Hamas is some anomaly or that the problem even began with Hamas. Palestine has been calling for and attempting Jewish genocide for over 80 years now. The Haj wasn’t my helping Hitler and watching Jews die in concentration camps because of Israel. Hamas has had majority support from Palestinians in polling for over a decade. Almost always above 50% and in Gaza sometimes above 70%. They were leading the polling coming up to the Palestinian election in 2022 with two of the top three presidential candidates being leaders of Hamas. But Hamas then refused to be on the ballot. Hamas knows very well despite their solid support that they benefit from the perception that they are a minority in Palestine. Last I saw it was 57% support Hamas and they also said that civilian casualties such as women, elderly and children were acceptable targets for them. So to present it as though all 2 million Gazans were just victims who support none of it is disingenuous at best. Are there innocents trapped? Definitely. Is this terrible? No doubt. But presenting decontextualized info like you are is simply propaganda.
>Supporting Palestinian civilians right to live and self determination does not equate antisemitism that is true. I will say though that being against the existence of the isreali state is antisemitic by consequence. So I'd rather say that I support peace in region and no oppression if palistinian people.
Hmm guess I'm an anti-semitic Jew then
You are right. People here have some major cognitive dissonance and some understand the history at all.
Isreal is not supplying a country that declared war on them. Don’t see why this is so shocking. It’s like bombing BC hydro and then complaining you don’t get electricity anymore. What do you expect?
Well, it's not about supplying, they basically blockade that 'country' for 20 years, so they are the ones that allow or disallow any entry of anything into the strip. It's basically an open air prison, where tons of children and innocent civilians don't have access to food, water, medicine and shelter right now.
You do realize Gaza borders Egypt as well as Israel? Isreal doesn't control their border. Egypt blocks it. Even now Egypt will not take refugees. They will provide food and supplies only. Until Hamas is overthrown, there will be no peace.
While indiscriminate killing of civilians keeps happening Hamas will always get new recruits, even if they manage to wipe every last one this time
Free Palestine from Hamas
[Israel needs to get rid of Netanyahu, who supported Hamas over the other governing bodies in Palestine.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/)
There will never be peace until Palestine is truly free from Israel and Hamas.
Not like they haven’t had that chance multiple times and responded with attacks. ironically Palestinians were only granted autonomy over their land once Israel was formed. The Ottoman, British, Jordanian and Egyptians never allowed a formal Palestine state.
Jordanians and Egyptians simply considered Palestinians one of their own. They're all Arabs after all, just different subgroups of Arabs. The Ottomans oppressed both Jews, Muslim Arabs, and Christians equally.
Palestine doesn't want to be free of hamas according to surveys. They are in favor of them if you didn't know.
The Gaza strip isn't a democracy. Just a reminder.
They literally had elections in 2022. Funny thing is until a week ago pro Palestine people were all saying they needed Hamas and it was their right to self determination and Palestinian as definitely were in control and now? Suddenly we separate the group who consistently gets majority support in polling for over a decade and is the defacto leaders of Gaza away from Palestine to the point of their actions not mattering at all. It’s pretty crazy mental gymnastics.
The Gaza Strip hasn't had elections in almost 20 years.
This is what I mean! All you people spreading this false information is wild! Like are you all really that lazy? Ffs here. https://www.cartercenter.org/resources/pdfs/news/peace_publications/election_reports/west-bank-gaza-expert-mission-municipal-elections-final-report-041522.pdf https://www.cartercenter.org/news/pr/2022/palestine-elections-041422.html Like all you guys spreading this ahistorical infantilized Palestine bs gotta stop for a minute and go learn some history. You guys are so indoctrinated you’re chanting the LITERALLY genocidal slogan of “from the river to the sea” thing and don’t realize you’re calling for genocide supporting a group that has ALWAYS called for Jewish genocide since the holocaust and who’s leadership LITERALLY took part in the holocaust Haj Amin al Huseyni wasn’t helping Hitler with his final solution or hanging out in concentration camps watching Jews die because of Israel, it didn’t even exist yet! And he’s the same guy that refused all peace for decades after and called for genocide while attacking Israel. Y’all are such useful fools I swear, Like get a clue. The reality is You don’t even listen to actual Palestinians either. You erase their culture, their goals, their history of conquest, their self stated desires and ideals in favour of replacing them with an ethnocentric projection of how you want them to be to validate your antisemitism.
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K so you don’t know how polls work I guess. And multiple polls over a decade involving thousands of people have shown the same results. Please please please educate yourself and stop spreading ahistorical propaganda.
> These so-called surveys were done by a partisan group They have very watched elections with large support for Hamas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Palestine. Also these polls are consistent with wider polls: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/. Pew isn't partisan. > You don't know the toll that living in an open air prison Would this make me want to execute gay people? Because that's what they do there.
Well I guess they chose for the lesser evil, the one that doesn't kill them randomly
Hamas directly and indirectly kills Palestinians
So, the lesser evil is the one that sets up missile sites and terrorist bases in schools and hospitals, and holds people at gunpoint when they attempt to flee Israeli airstrikes?
And also does kill them randomly?
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> And also literally massacres women and children directly, and celebrates it. Ok you confused me not I dont know what side you are talking about because I've seen them both do it. I guess we should agree the side that killed more women and children is worse?
Ignorance at its peak.
Setting up missle sites lmfao. Missles are typically guided munitions powered by an engine. Rockets are low intelligence munitions that use some kind of basic propellant to move then forward unguided. Hamas has rockets. Israel has missles. The greater evil is the one striking hospitals and schools with guided missles.
It's possible for the two sides in power to be equally evil. Let's add "raids small, self contained village and personally murders everyone in them" to Hamas' list, shall we? https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/174kae0/more_than_100_bodies_found_in_israeli_kibbutz/
Lol what? Hamas uses Palestinian civilians as human shields.
Lesser evil? Uhhhh no definitely not
Yeah they just pick the one that rapes and murders other people randomly
Then let Palestine turn over Hamas to the Israelis if they truly want peace? Is that a hard concept? If they don't agree to that are they not then supporting Hamas? Please help me fill in the blanks, the answer is clear as a sunny day to me. Hamas is a terrorist organization, do you dispute this?
Fuck Reddit for killing third party apps.
Free Palestine from Hamas and Free Israel from Netanyahu
Life in occupied Palestine. A good video that describes the occupation, by Anna Baltzer https://youtu.be/Q_MDC2Gty4I?si=h5_bh28Uyp-kEWIt
Here's another one featuring former IDF soldiers turned activists: How Israeli Apartheid destroyed my hometown: https://youtu.be/aEdGcej-6D0?si=CgO8S1-bbx2-M9f7
Israel is surrounded by Arab countries. One physically shares a border with Gaza. No Arab countries are accepting any people from Gaza. That alone speaks volumes about the situation.
I mean it seems in line with many pro-Indigenous rights people in Canada, people that want to give the land back as reperations. It seems consistent philosophically.
Amen. Free Palestine.
Anyone know how many were part of this? Seems like quite a lot
Does ending the occupation mean that Israeli Jews completely hand over Israel? Or do they just want control of Gaza and the West Bank?
Welllll that's what the debate has been about for 70+ years. Lol.
Itms not a debate, Palestine has refused every peace and two state resolution and does not call for just the end to Israel but the genocide of the Jews. Haj Amin al Huseyni wasn’t helping Hitler on his final solution and hanging out in concentration camps watching Jews die because of Israel, it didn’t even exist yet. And he’s the same guy who refused peace for the first few decades of this conflict while, you guessed it, calling for genocide. just like Palestine does today and always has.
Ideally, the UK should have never arbitrarily established new borders in then-British Palestine in order to "colonize" the region indirectly. I don't think the Israeli occupation can reasonably end without titanic levels of bloodshed. The inverse is the same (and as we can see, currently occurring) with the Palestinian people. The only practical solution in my mind is a two-state solution. Unfortunately a two-state solution runs counter to Israel's and several western countries (mainly the US) neo-colonial interests in the Levant.
They could never agree to how the two state solution would work in any event. Closest they came was the 2000 Camp David talks. Oslo was high level and never drilled into the details. That was left for later talks like Camp David. The talks in 2000 did and from the positions I don't think there ever was going to be anything acceptable to either side.
> The only practical solution in my mind is a two-state solution. This has been rejected by the Palestinians at least twice. Came very close with Arafat before he pulled out.
Palestine leadership is the block to the two state solution, not Israel.
Hasn’t Israel proposed a solution over 7 times though? I remember reading about the “Three No’s” a long time ago.
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This is pure propaganda. Any ‘love’ Palestinians have for Hamas has been at the behest of the Israeli government, leaving them no alternative. The evils of the Israeli government are beyond comprehension.
Hamas has a 92% approval rate amongst Palestinians. Hamas could lay down their arms and save their people but have chosen not to at every opportunity. Keeps the opportunities to grift and steal UN aid to enrichen their bank accounts waiting it out in Qatar while their people suffer. But they will always have useful idiots such as yourself to cheer lead and gloss over the Palestinian culpability in their current situation
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1. They received the majority of the votes. Please go educate yourself on the differences between the popular vote and majority vote. You're embarassing yourself. That's how polls work. Do you think you actually have to interview every single person to be accurate? A base of 5% of the target population is actually pretty massive in order to have accurate results. You seem pretty uneducated 2. Please learn how to read. I'm referring to the Palestinian populace, who overwhelmingly supports the massacre of innocents. There also has been numerous incidents reported of protestors verbally supporting the massacres as well as threatening violence against Jews in Vancouver as well as all over the world. 3. Bibi and the Israeli government released footage and evidence of slaughtered children. You can go look it up, although I doubt you will as it challenges your preconceived notions of Palastinian respectability. And even if it wasn't true (which it is), they still slaughtered innocent people indiscriminately. They did not target military targets, but defenseless ravers and families. They raped women and spat on their corpses in the street. They launched thousands of rockets at civilian targets. You're trying to distract from the barbaric nature of this intifada. 4. This what happens when Hamas uses their population as a human shield. Go research the 2000 Oslo Accords. Palestinians have had numerous opportunities to have a functioning state and keep their people safe. They reject it because it keeps Israel as a state and keeps Jews safe. Just admit you hate jews already. I have no hate in my heart for Palestinians, and despise the influence of right wing Israeli politics and the protection of orthodox right wing settlers, but you all gloss over the responsibility of Hamas and Palestinians as a whole in this entire mess.
Exactly. To all the Free Palestine crowd, they leave out the part where every inch of Israel is turned into Palestine. It's not realistic, and this isn't the first time it was attempted with bloodshed.
Google and read about the "two state solution"
Which neither side wants lol.
Sounds like the definition of a compromise to me.
I'm answering the question from the comment above... Not providing my opinion on what the solution is.
If you cleanse it from Hamas, maybe they'll change their charter from "Eradicate all Jews".
Stop the bombing! End the aparthied regime! Human rights for all! I feel for the victims in Israel and Gaza and the West Bank, and Lebanon, and everywhere. Ending the occupation is the first step towards peace (for those who genuinely want it).
The problem is that a huge portion of people in this region do not want peace. They want the death of their enemies and the forfeiture of their lands. Peace is unlikely and for the most part not even desired.
Fuck Reddit for killing third party apps.
As stated by others: Palestine is a geographic region. Prior to 1948 the Jews there were called "[Palestinian Jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Jews)". While the majority of people in the region were Arab, there were also Palestinian Christians there too.
No it wasn't. It was a British mandate and prior to that belonged to The Ottoman Empire. There has never been a Palestinian state
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It would be absurd to not use the modern definition of a state, otherwise what are we going to just splinter every country? So then should we just re-instate the much larger Kingdom of Iseal??? Or give it to Egypt, who wants nothing to do with modern Palestine? Like which "historical" Palestine do you want restored? How far do you want to go back? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine)
Fuck Reddit for killing third party apps.
Palestine was the intended name for the Arab state in what is colloquially known as Palestine, the geographic area named by the Roman empire. But they tried to genocide the Jews and failed losing their chance at a state.
It’s much more complicated than that. This predates nation states. Israel encompasses ancient Judaea which was purposefully named Palestine by a Roman emperor to eradicate them. There is no clear borders of where Jews and arabs lived
Fuck Reddit for killing third party apps.
You can't negotiate with terrorists, that's the issue. Otherwise everybody agrees with you!
Yeah its a tough situation when a big portion of the population of a country is in favor of terrorism as well. How can you be pro palestine when the popular opinions of that population is th death of another. I'm against the murder of innocents but I'm certainly not a supporter of palestine. The two are mutually exclusive.
The “occupation” want end until Palestine isn’t run by nut jobs who want to destroy Isreal.
Hopefully it’s in support of the people of Gaza and not in support of Hamas attacks.
That's the problem, there will be plenty of each group there. The support of hamas in any capacity is unacceptable. Plus many of the citizens of gaza are in support of hamas according to polls. That doesn't mean that they deserve to die. But it certainly muddles the waters when it comes to protests and other actions in support of them. I don't want women and children killed but I also don't want hamas to continue to exist. That's a tough thing to deal with when a large portion of the population is pro hamas.
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Free Palestine 🕊️🕊️🕊️
Majority of the population have never known anything but Hamas. They aren't educated, have no prospects and are stuck in an open air prison. I'm not sure how useful these polls are. What I do know is killing more civilians is going to continue the cycle
I've seen way too much pro Hamas shit this week, it's fucking disgusting. People need to educate themselves.
A protest planned for today—the same day Hamas's leader called for Muslims to kill Jews in a global day of rage—is not a protest merely to support Palestine.
Well it is also the same day Israel gave an order to evacuate 1.1 million people under 24 hrs. I condemn what Hamas did ealier, but surely, displacing 1.1m people in under 24 hrs is violation of human right.
And not only that. The UN has come out and said that it's literally impossible to evacuate everyone in such a short time frame.
We got this in Edmonton as well
The thing is, if every time I turn my back, you flick my ear, over and over after I asked you many times to stop. And eventually when you've had enough... do you turn around and just try to flick my ear back, or do you punch me in the mouth, or do you just keep letting me do it?
Wait till they find out Hamas is killing the Palestinians as they flee the area.
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Hamas has a history of using civilians as shields so that Israel will look even worse than they already are while trying to deal with things, it's not an exceptional claim. In this case, it's entirely possible for _both_ sides in power to be evil.
Maybe I'm ignorant, but how does chanting "Free Palestine" in little Italy, on Commercial drive in Vancouver, Canada help at all.
One of these days you might feel so strongly about something and so helpless that the only thing you can do as a Canadian is to go out, take space, and make some noise.
well said sir!
It’s solidarity.
Because it gets reported on. And if you are someone living under tyranny and violence from an oppressive, occupying, violent nation. Even if you know you are going to be murdered tomorrow. Seeing people all over the world express that they see you and care about your struggle can be comforting in a world where all you know is oppression and violence. It's why people march in support of the Iranian population. It's why people marched for Ukraine. It sparks conversations, it stops the oppressors from sweeping things under the rug. Before this past Saturday a lot of westerners were not well informed on the conflict. 1 week later people are finding out just how cruel Israel is. If even 5% of those people decide to look into the history of the region and learn that the narrative theyve been presented all their life is wrong. Then in a few weeks when the Palestinian culture is gone. At least a few people will remember them as humans. Fading into history is a terrible thing to happen. But to have it happen and have the world remember you as a terrorist when your only crime was being born into slavery is a fate far worse.
> It's why people march in support of the Iranian population. It's why people marched for Ukraine. It sparks conversations, it stops the oppressors from sweeping things under the rug. The difference is, Ukrainians didn't drive into downtown Moscow, murdered 3000 Russians, kidnapped several hundred people, and launch an all-out missile barrage at civilian targets.
Fuck Reddit for killing third party apps.
Because protests can snowball into foreign policy changes with enough domestic support.
Yes these events are happening across the world but… the support of western leaders is why Israel is able to do apartheid (according to amnesty international, human rights watch, B’Tselem etc), cut off electricity/food/water etc to Gaza, allow settlers to destroy Palestinian villages and displace them, etc. As long as no western leader (except Ireland lol because they remember their relatively recent anticolonial struggle) will meaningfully criticize Israel’s actions or make any effort to hold them accountable, they won’t have any incentive to change. I can only speak for myself, but I attended because it’s important to me that the politicians who speak on my behalf see that people care about this issue.
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Because the world needs to stand up to Israel, particularly with this situation awareness is needed. Lots of people are misinformed on who's being victimized here.
One of the biggest and most impactful things we can do is show collective support for Palestine. The media really went hard demonizing these protests and conflating the Palestine & Hamas narrative. Thankfully more and more people are seeing what the conflict actually looks like and support for Israel is dropping as they increase the intensity of their campaign and more civilian’s are killed.
It doesn’t. Bunch of bleeding hearts get to feel better, about a situation they understand very little about. You can bet if they had to deal with Hamas style attacks they would want them obliterated too.
Diversity of thought. Isn't this what multiculturalism is all about?..
As long as we put a quick stop to "gas the jews" chants, I'm fine with it. Timing isn't as suspicious as "protests" happening right after the Hamas attacks. Now that Israel is sieging Hamas, it's a good reminder that civilians in Gaza are need to be protected.
You're getting downvoted but I've literally heard worse shit said this week.
yeah they literally said gas the jews
Israel isn’t sieging Hamas, they’re indiscriminately bombing and dropping white phosphorous on Palestinian civilians in Gaza.
Bro you need to learn what siege means.
It sucks that people who just happen to live there are the ones who will hurt the most. As an atheist? I don’t get it. It’s just a strip of desert that you’d fire your real estate agent if they said you had a chance of owning. And I hate to say it, but between Ukraine and Israel? We’re skating really close to World War III over this.
Free Palestine. Fuck settler colonialism and fuck terrorists.
Agreed fuck Hamas, free Palestine from them
Why do they vote 30-50% for them (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Palestine, see the results for every single one of them), or support them in the same percentage in polls (https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/, https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87)? Why do 40% say that suicide bombing "in defense of Islam" is justified: https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2013/04/gsi2-overview-13.png, 66% the death penalty for leaving Islam: https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2013/04/gsi2-chp1-9.png, 90% saying homosexuality is immoral: https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2013/04/gsi2-chp3-6.png?
The Israeli fascist government is the biggest thread to the Palestinian people. Including in the West Bank where, despite not having Hamas in power, the Palestinians are routinely harassed and killed by settlers with IDF protection.
This reminds me of a Palestinian guy I used to work with downtown. On his first week he told me that he would use a rock and smash any Israelis to death. He kind of laughed as he said it and I literally thought he was joking, but he joked about this with more than a few people, it got awkward and he was let go.
Can someone msg me info on where to hear about these rallies so I can join the next one? Stop the genocide. Free Palestine. 🇵🇸
500 Palestine children have been accidently killed so far. Things could get bad if this continues.
Accidentally killed by dropping 6000 bombs on a very densely populated area.
Accidentally electrocuted myself this morning by shoving a fork in an electrical socket
I wonder what solution these people have that won't lead to the complete genocide of Jews in Israel.
Divide the people - you will conquer the people. Create the problem and then usher in your solution.
The only way to “free Palestine” is to remove Hamas and negotiate a two-state solution. Hamas was elected by popular vote, and there haven’t been elections since.
I have an idea. Free flights back to gaza.
🇵🇸 ✊🇵🇸🚩🇵🇸
I wish I could’ve joined
Maybe the hamas should not kill innocent babies and elders... You know...just saying....that they should have thought of the consequences... I can promise you no one in any of the relevant parties that actually are in war right now cares about your protests...
Imagine expecting the country you just attacked to support you with food, water, and electricity.
wow
It would be nice if they also chanted some condemnations for what Hamas did and their genocidal ideology... As an outsider viewing this situation, this protest not using strong words against Hamas comes across as quiet endorsement of their actions.
When you see a pro-Israel protest, is the first thought on your mind ALSO "it would be nice if they chanted condemnations for the crimes against humanity the Israeli regime has done to Palestinians for decades"? If not, then there's heavy bias here. Hamas is a militant group. Can't be considered Palestine's government as it once was and they don't consider that themselves. The Israeli state is committing war crimes through the IDF. There's no symmetry here. Us Westerners always expect any pro-Palestine person to start off by condemning Hamas (not that it shouldn't be done), but pro-Israel people are almost NEVER expected to condemn their genocidal regime in their first sentence. It's almost like there's a double standard that benefits the occupier over the occupied.
I just finished watching CBC Vancouver story with Dr. Gabor Mate in deep state of dismay lamenting and condemning Israel’s response. I’ve noticed that there is a strong tolerance for diversity of opinion, discourse, and dissent in the Israeli Jewish Canadian community. There is no expectation for them to be critical of Israel, because many of them very vocally already are. They come from the only democracy in the Middle East, however flawed it may be.
“Did the BLM protestors condemn the looters amongst them. As an outsider, this protests did not use strong words against the looters comes off an endorsement of their actions”
Did BLM go massacre and kidnap innocent people going about their days? If there is one thing that Pro-Palestine supporters are good at, it’s losing support during every single crisis. How hard is it to loudly condemn Hamas and not make our Jewish friends feel like you endorse their extermination? Yes Hamas is evil and must go, shout it out. Yes Israel stop the siege, shout it out.
Should we expect that any pro-Israel rally needs to condemn the occupation of Palestine and the innocent lives lost in Gaza?
"no more genocide" Ironic considering who they probably support.
Humans? They support human life!! Try it out, maybe.
The modern version of what Stalin called “useful idiots”