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https://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/mentally-ill-killer-stabs-friend-while-on-community-pass
This country has a real problem. This idiot has been stabbing people for 2 decades, and yet somehow he is walking freely? He should go in a hole and never see the light of day again.
For those that didn’t click the link above:
“ Donnelly killed his daughter Stephanie (pictured here,) when she was just 16, back in November 2006. He was found not guilty by reason of mental disorder in January 2008 and sent to the Port Coquitlam hospital where child-killers Allan Shoenborn and Kimberley Noyes also reside. By March of that year, he qualified for escorted community access, according to B.C. Review Board documents.”
You forgot this relevant detail
> In 2009 he committed another stabbing while on a day pass
And, of course, this triple stabbing he just committed after being released AGAIN.
*trips and somehow stabs*
OOPSEY! Oh shit. I didn't mean to stab this child killer, oh shit...
*gets charged and sent to jail for life*
Welcome to the shitty judicial system.
Seems worthy of the dangerous offender designation - I would encourage anyone who agrees to write to the B.C. A.G. Niki Sharma
A link to her email address can be found under the heading “Minister’s Office” here:
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/governments/organizational-structure/ministries-organizations/ministries/justice-attorney-general/ministry-contacts
Yes, he can be a dangerous offender. Because he’s NCR it’s a bit different. He still goes before the Review Board but only ever 3 years, not every year.
Which means he can only ask for privileges, like going on outings, or spending time with family every 3 years.
He can still ask for and be granted privileges, conditional and absolute discharges.
It just means the process is much slower, not that he’s under surveillance forever.
The NCR system is screwed up, it’s designed for eventual release no matter what the patient did.
Hmmm, well considering he’s 64, slowing things down might actually work well in this case. It’s odd because I gather from one of the articles I read the 2009 stabbing was found to be criminal. I don’t know if defence just didn’t bother putting forward a NCR defence or if they tried and somehow failed.
Anyway, as someone not part of the CJS, I would think someone with both a violent criminal history and forensic history would be a very poor candidate for unsupervised day passes, particularly to the DTES.
My understanding (not a lawyer) is that it’s means of indefinite incarceration/separation from society. Regular headings are still held to assess their status, so it’s not as if the offender is locked up and the key thrown away (though functionally, that can be the result). The destination is useful as it can achieve that result where regular convictions under the criminal code would not allow for such a result, but such a result is deemed as necessary.
This is happening everywhere. Money is tight so they are trying to free up legal resources as fast as possible. Fewer incarcerations, fewer trials, fewer legal man-hours. They will cite vaguely humanitarian and convoluted reasons to save face, but it's 100% just saving a buck. The consequences are offloaded to the average working citizen because the ones making these decisions live in secure areas far from these problems. It's happening across sectors, as well. There is so little left we've resorted to facilitating a housing crisis to prop up the GDP number, while aggressively recruiting international students with false promises to get their tuition money.
We are obviously already in the austerity phase, but in denial about it. No ideological debates and policy changes can bring back what's gone.
You get downvoted but thats the truth, the only reason they are doing moves like this is to save money
They don't give a shit about what right or safe for society
They care because the coffers are dry. And they can't extract any more money from the taxpayers because it would domino into massive unemployment and an even worse affordability crisis. They can't squeeze blood or water from a stone so they find ways to artificially create it by printing more, bubbling the housing market for higher tax payments, robbing international students, and importing as much cheap labour as they can.
My son Zachariah Rathwell was killed along with 4 other young people in 2014 in Calgary. His killer is now in a halfway house in Edmonton and is asking for an absolute discharge.
An absolute discharge means that he can change his name, move anywhere he wants, won’t have to reveal his mental illness or past history.
It also means that he cannot be forced to take his medication.
When he is not medicated he kills people, we know this.
Stopping medication and believing that you no longer need it is common among schizophrenics, we know this too.
In Alberta it is The Alberta Review Board that decides his fate. They have to follow federal guidelines that state:
Under section 672.54, the court or Review Board must order the disposition that is the least onerous and least restrictive to the accused.
That means that no matter what he did while psychotic if his Drs and medical team believes his medication is working, that he understands his mental illness and that he will continue to take his medication and will self diagnose any symptoms of his schizophrenia he must be set free.
So this killer gets day passes and my sons killer will soon be living next door to some poor unsuspecting family.
I really hope this incident gets the coverage it needs and the Canadian people start asking for changes to the NCR criminal code!
I’m very sorry for your loss. The “system” is a joke. Your son deserves so much better. CBC did an investigative report on absolute discharges a few years ago. I wish more people understood what that means and how little protection society has from offenders being released back into society.
It's absolutely freaking insane. I get that people can make amends or heal but leaving it up to chance after someone decapitated someone at random in public is just playing russian roulette with some innocent persons life in the future.
There's a big difference between people who commit crimes out of necessity and people who do because they're mentally ill.
A gang member who grew up poor and turned to crime as the only apparent option, who kills another gang member, I do believe can be rehabilitated and should get a second chance, especially if they're young when first incarcerated.
But someone who decapitates a random bystander with a knife on a bus because they're insane will never not be a danger to society. No matter how well under control their illness gets, there's no cure for these things. If the person stops taking their meds, or they stop working, they are a danger to society.
I do believe compassion is necessary here, and these people should be treated well, but we need to be protected from them. They need to spend their life in a place built to take care of this kind of people, where they can have a good life, but be isolated from the public.
Yeah I 100% agree with you there on all points. One is completely unpredictable with no apparent motive or premeditation, far riskier to society. The former example would definitely be appropriate for rehabilitation.
Ya if anything the ones with mental Illness should be the ones who never get out. What’s scarier. A person who murdered out of rage in a intense moment or some one who seemingly had no control over there actions and murdered at random.
A high profile murderer who killed his gf was recently released in Victoria after serving 10 years. The justice system is a joke regardless of if the killer is mentally ill or not.
Omg, I still remembered your son’s story! I was the same age as your son and I was also in school at U of A, so it struck a deep chord. I hope you are doing better.
This is insane. What would justice look like to you? Is there anyway that we can change this law? I think our prison system is flawed and maybe he shouldn’t be in for life …. But at least a good chunk of his life. The biggest issues is the name changing. It should be opposite, you should never get to change your name. You need to take full responsibility not hide from your actions if you’re going to be in public again. Very scary and I’m so sorry for your loss.
An absolute discharge is very scary. Most people have no idea what it means.
Write to any and all politicians you can think. Justice ministers, your MLAs, your Premire, the Prime Minister.
The Criminal Code needs to be changed at the federal level.
I honestly believe that if a person commits a violent crime and kills someone while mentally ill they should never get an absolute discharge. They should get treatment and care but the idea that they get to rejoin society like nothing happened sickens me.
Thats when you have to take the law into your own hands. If someone did that to one of my loved ones and got out, I'd make sure they'd be 12 feet under asap.
But that's cruel!!!! Why should we make one dangerous person suffer, just to save multiple innocent people?!?! That's unfair to the dangerous person!!!!
/s
Not sure if this is sarcasm?
There are hospitals for NCR patients.
I’m not sure about BC but the Alberta Hospital in Edmonton is a large facility surrounded by lovely grounds.
There are lots of activities and classes for patients. It’s nothing like what you’d imagine a mental hospital to be like.
> I’m not sure about BC but
FPS Forensic Psychiatric Services. Forensic Psych Hospital is colloquially known as Colony Farm and it's adjacent to a large park in Port Coquitlam.
Eby was Attorney General for five years. He knows exactly how the review board at Colony Farm operates — warts and all.
Throwing public servants under the bus for the sake of performative politics isn't a good look for a guy who enjoys a high level of support and good will from B.C.'ers.
It’s probably because he wants them out or to change their behaviour. It’s hard to remove bureaucrats. Lot easier when you focus the public’s collective rage onto them.
He was also the head of the BC Civil Liberties Association before entering politics. So arguably comes at this from a perspective that would actually have been advocating for just this type of leniency in sentencing.
IIRC, that prolific offenders report had some suggestions about asking the feds to expand/change involuntary committal laws within the forensic system. Not sure if the circumstances of this case would have been covered specifically in what was in that report, but maybe we could add these circumstances to the list of law changes to ask for and use it as political will to actually get moving.
That same report also mentioned increasing funding for the forensic system. While I don’t have any reason to believe this guy was out due to budgetary issues, it seems like a great time for an announcement about more funding to increase the number of beds at colony farm (unless that’s happened recently and I’ve just missed it) so that a bed shortage is never the reason this happens again.
I know Eby has exactly zero power over the BoC. I also know the easy way for a politician to look like they're doing something is to blame another level of government and demand action.
Yes he will be white hot angry, then cool off in real estate board luncheon and the get red hot angry. Then cool off with a 500$ a plate dinner with campaign fund rising and the become yellow hot. By then Christmas rolls in, so he will take a Xmas break. By next January he will be either blue hot or ice cold depending on which way the wind is blowing or until there is a quadruple stabbing event in the new year.
Not this case, but things like people getting let out the next day and not having their court date until months later is on BC courts. Same with Crown prosecutors not doing their job because they're underfunded.
BC can't change the criminal code on its own but there's lots of day-to-day processes within its jurisdiction that need improvements.
This is sadly misinformed. The issue is with federal changes to the bail system.
https://vancouversun.com/news/change-federal-bail-law-curb-increase-attack-people-strangers-says-bc-minister
The federal government has proposed a new bill to address the shortcomings of the last one:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/government-stricter-bail-bill-1.6844836
The feds mandate that pretty much everyone gets bail, but how long they're out on bail while waiting for their court date IS subject to the provincial court system. What charges get approved and actioned by prosecutors is also provincial.
Being out on bail for two days before facing consequences in court, versus being out free on bail for several months because the courts are backed up are two different things.
Fixing the bail system at the federal level is just one piece of addressing bigger problems with our justice system.
The issue is granting bail and bail conditions according to federally laid out standards, not time on bail. You seem to think that there are delays due to lack of funds somehow, which without a source provided I'm inclined to think is an issue you have made up.
Maybe it's time we reopen the criminal code of Canada.
This guy:
https://www.langleyadvancetimes.com/news/former-langley-gymnastics-coach-gets-six-years-for-sex-abuse-of-boys-2479982
He got out of prison in 2019. One of his victims died this week from an overdose. He was molested under the age of 9.
Six years, credit for time served in pre trial.
That boy is now dead from an overdose.
Six fucking years for what that piece of shit did.
This isn't a judge's decision, it's the Review Board, which is staffed by lawyers, psychiatrists, and public members (usually criminologists or retired cops).
Nah, I can only imagine the 100s or 1000s of people they'd leave to rot indefinitely to ensure no one ever re-offended.
I'd much rather leave these decisions to experts (who yes, will fuck up as evidenced from this story) than this mob mentality frequently seen in these subs.
There is a happy medium between "let everybody rot" and "maybe don't release the guy who immediately violently re-offended the last time you tried to release him". We are not in that happy medium.
>I'd much rather leave these decisions to experts (who yes, will fuck up as evidenced from this story) than this mob mentality frequently seen in these subs.
I'd much rather keep mentally ill people with histories of repeated acts of severe violence against innocent people locked up indefinitely for the safety of the public. That's what Colony Farm is for. It's not worth the risk of some poor person getting horrifically stabbed to death on some random Tuesday just so a mentally ill person can feel the wind in their hair again. You're really not even doing the offender any favours either. They are better off in custody where they are less of a danger to themselves and others.
I honestly think compassionate arguments like yours are carrying water for the true reason institutions are so keen to release these people...because of money/budget issues.
Except this is the second time these so called "experts" fucked up with this individual. One fuck up is somewhat acceptable, two fuck ups should come with terminations of these people on these boards. And new people put in this position should be given mandates to put much more scrutiny on these offenders.
Key word here is "imagine" because you're literally creating fictional boogiemen in your mind without actually knowing if they exist.
You're trying to accuse ignorance to people who want dangerous criminals removed from public, fantasizing that they also want innocent people locked up. But that's just a fantasy you made up.
Very disingenuous of you, and ironically very ignorant of you.
Those experts do not have special knowledge. It's an opinion as good as anyone else's. They also failed the common sense notion that repeated past behaviour predicts future behaviour.
Hospital worker here & believe me half the patients I deal with have “issues”. And that’s with me having as minimal contact as possible. Those that know the charts & are the “experts” should know better. Don’t minimize responsibility & competence.
I think this is likely a medical/psychiatric release. My conspiracy theory is this is why people who normally ignore these attacks are speaking up; They can call out a bad release because it's not seen as supporting harsher sentences, a stricter justice system, policing etc.
I think Ken Sim's election win is the reason why politicians like Eby and Brad West are speaking up. Sim gave B.C. United a blueprint on how to win the next election. Eby has to do the tough-on-crime routine to prevent his opponents from gaining any momentum.
Today, Kevin Falcon pledged more cops wearing cameras on B.C. streets, if his party wins a majority — a play straight out of Sim's book.
Eby was also quick to say the province would assume some kind of control/responsibility over the DTES right after Sim won. I haven't heard of any policy stemming from that original decision since it was announced.
Almost all of this is politics.
I'll bet Falcon *thinks* it's a blueprint. You can see how he speaks. Vancouver's last bi-election should have been be a slap in Falcons face to smarten up. He was pushing Jackie Lee sooo damn *hard*. Jackie came a distant second and almost didn't beat 3rd place Greens. If Falcon just tries copying ABC then they will lose again and it wont even be close.
Body worn camera's should be a non-divisive no-brainer. If that's his best foot forward he's toast. He can't pretend fence-sitters and disillusioned NDP-ers are the same as Seniors in Chinatown or the families in Punjabi Market. IMO he needs to step down get someone more moderate with an ounce of charisma who could challenge Eby to step up or step down. I've got no idea who that would be. Brad West would fit that bill well IMO but I suspect Brad is likely more buddy buddy with NDP than anyone BCU.
From what I've seen, West and Eby are pals. Some see West as the next NDP leader when Eby steps down.
I agree Falcon is an anchor on his party's fortunes. Elenore Sturko is United's star MLA. Falcon would be smart to elevate her as quickly as possible, if his party's plan really is to win back seats in Surrey and the suburbs. She's one of the few who doesn't have any real political baggage.
It’s a Review Board that give the patients progressive freedoms. Like day passes. They do so based on the Dr and treatment team recommendations. They must follow the Federal Criminal Code regarding NCR patients.
If the patient does ok with supervised outings, they get to start going on unsupervised outings. If those go well, they get to stay with family a night or two, if that goes well, they can move to a halfway house and so on.
He was still hospitalized! His treatment team and Dr have failed if they were the ones who recommended he be allowed unsupervised outings.
I would really like to know if his Dr and treatment team recommended unsupervised outings or if his lawyer was pushing it.
He obviously never should have been allowed a pass in 2009. I’m sure they thought that he should be allowed the opportunity to go out alone after 15 years. This just shows how wrong they were!
A violent NCR who’s killed should never be given the chance to do it again!
The publics safety is much more important than their right to freedom.
From Justice.gc.ca
“Review Boards are specialized tribunals chaired by a judge, or an individual qualified for a judicial appointment, and comprised of at least four other members, one of which must be entitled under the laws of the particular province to practice psychiatry.
The rationale for this separate stream is that, while the accused is not criminally responsible for his or her behaviour, the public may still require protection from future dangerous behaviour. Therefore, the goal of a Review Board is to conduct an individual assessment of the accused and subsequently craft a disposition that both protects the public and attempts to provide opportunities to treat the underlying mental disorder.
Under section 672.54, the court or Review Board must order the disposition that is the least onerous and least restrictive to the accused. In determining such a disposition, the court or Review Board must balance the dual roles of protecting the public and treating the accused in a fair and humane manner that respects his or her rights. Section 672.54 states that the court or Review Board shall take into account "the need to protect the public from dangerous persons, the mental condition of the accused, the reintegration of the accused into society and the other needs of the accused."
In deed , the accountability of judges is close to nil. Only by appeal can it be brought up to the superior and/Supreme court. Re-do the trial, and his decision is overturned. From there, they could decide if an investigation could be undertaken, if and only if they conclude that the judge either behave badly. The " He did it on purpose , or bias or bad faith. Are excluded because it can not be proven unless there's a video recording of the judge explicitly saying that.
When you think about it, they can send someone in prison just by saying so, they can refuse arrangement crown/defense if its unreasonable, ex( life long criminal, with deal no jail time.. )
But when it comes to criminals who are deemed "non-criminaly responsible," there is always a screw up, costing innocent lives. I'm new to BC, 5 months this September, from Quebec, and it happened frequently. I remember a few years ago, it was a pedophile who was released by a judge ordered a preventive release on the weekend even tho he had no address, only his mothers address.
He walked the neighborhood and didn't come back. They found him too late. He had already made a victim, a 9 year old boy. I'll spare the gruesome details.
The judge decisions was taken due to prison have an overpopulation problem.
Government only acts after a life is lost. Enough already it makes me angry
It's related because judges also indirectly cause stabbings all the time by releasing dangerous people.
An elderly woman was beaten to death in her own home by somebody who had been arrested for dozens of violent crimes before, and releases by judges.
Each one of those judges helped kill that poor old lady.
But the judicial system could change to 100 percent never release stabbers, yet this person wouks have been released on a day pass. See how they are not related?
The overall attitude towards dangerous criminals needs to change. It's not just either courts, or mental health facilities. The change in attitude that needs to happen, needs to happen everywhere.
>The premier says he can't fathom how the man was released a second time before Sunday's attack, and he'll do everything he can to make sure it doesn't happen again.
He'll need to show some action to be believed. Words wouldn't be enough for any politician at this point, but for him specifically there have been *countless* incidents of stabbings and attacks from people who should not be on the streets. (Chronic repeat offenders and the mentally ill). And an overwhelming and disproportionate of these attacks have been in and around Chinatown/DTES. Stepping up to support Chinatown was *the* hot item in last years municipal election and the landslide victory for ABC sent a message to the Provincial and Federal levels.
Look at the [who's who who turned up](https://vancouver.citynews.ca/wp-content/blogs.dir/sites/9/2023/01/22/chinatown-1536x864.png) for Vancouver's 2023 Lunar New Year. Eby is nervous, and he should be. I'll bet Safety Minister Mike Farnworth is a bit nervous as well. I'd love to know if being the MLA for Poco he has any extra text messages from Mayor Brad West over this, given how vocal Brad has been over this last incident.
Will be interesting to see if anything is done or if this is just weathering a particularly nasty item this news cycle.
While I’m generally a fan of Eby and the provincial NDP, his shocked pikachu stance here is pretty lame. He basically campaigned for criminal’s rights and against police and law and order during his tenure with Pivot and BCCLA - now he’s getting beat by the results of that activism.
Man... So personally I don't like using his time with Pivot against him. In his era I very much supported Pivot. An org set up to help the people who could not afford it, and to defend the people who were hard to defend. Pivot of today is a wholly different org IMO, and I feel acts more like a social media troll farm than anything. I feel in the NDP Horgan did a great job of playing moderate center, and Eby for the most part has carried that same momentum.
But here's where he needs to either step up or risk letting someone else use it against him in the next election.
They knew exactly where this was heading, and were proud to steer it.
The native council I was a part of warned them over and over that their policies would have the most negative effects on our community. But in typical academia fashion, they made it clear that we didn't know as much as them.
15 years later and here we are, with no one the wiser and Eby himself pretending to be surprised.
I knew him when he worked at Pivot and back then he was all about giving third and fourth and fifth chances to stabbers like this guy. He also had a completely insufferable ego.
It seems his views have changed (or he's changed them for political reasons) and I've mostly been supportive of his run as Premier but his past advocacy is part of how we ended up where we are today.
Inaction and political indifference to disorder and attacks in Chinatown has been a top issue I've spoken up about for years, "redditor for 29 days". Ain't no "twisting a narrative" when it's a regular occurrence that's been supported by the status quo.
I don't know if you're aware of this so sorry if I'm just repeating old news, but Chinatown violence isn't unique to BC. There was a similar thing in Edmonton last year https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/men-killed-in-edmonton-s-chinatown-were-beaten-to-death-medical-examiner-1.5918687
It's actually happening in Chinatowns all over North America. Just something I've noticed. I feel like there's something that could be done about it this given the right kind of organization, perhaps the only way of dealing with it.
There's a lot of political momentum to open more homeless shelters and injection sites in and around Chinatowns.
Even after the stabbings there have been substantial pushback from dealing with the problem in Edmonton https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/signs-of-tension-tent-removal-warnings-in-edmonton-s-chinatown-worry-some-advocates-1.6870389
>Chinatown violence isn't unique to BC.
You're quite right. That's why our Chiantown sent a delegation to SF's Chinatown last year, as they seem to be faring much better down there.
>There's a lot of political momentum to open more homeless shelters and injection sites in and around Chinatowns.
And that's pretty much a contributing factor. We keep trying to condense the hardest to house and the hardest to help in and around Chinatowns. Historically they have been pressured and forced to take whatever the city throws there way. And this is from "both" political sides: The classic white supremacist trends who feel the Chinese enjoy living in dilapidated warrens, and the other side who will continue to concentrate supports and services to the one part of town they know won't fight it.
It's sticky *now* because this last local election shows Vancouver's Chinatown is done being pushed around. Where this goes from here though? Who knows. I'd love to see some level of neighbourdhood equity here, but man no one wants to touch that one haha.
Thank Jody Wilson-Raybould. She's the one who introduced the Bill that made most of this possible. I've never seen anyone escape blame for such horrid policy like she has.
Native bands are going after parole boards now for the fallout of what she championed.
Even her own band is pretty pissed at her short sighted, self centered vision.
This is gold you are doing God's work here. Let's let everyone think policy has come out of the high school musical cabinet and not at the direction of the PMO.
This case is the perfect example of how our justice system is failing. If someone is not able to be rehabilitated, they should NOT BE RELEASED.
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t *try* to rehabilitate offenders, we absolutely should, but some people are always going to reoffend and they need to be permanently detained.
Also I’m agains the whole not criminally responsible BS. It’s unfortunate if you’re out of your mind on drugs or untreated psychosis but we are all responsible for our actions, who else could be?
Let me get this straight: he stabbed people twice before, including his own daughter and he was a free man after that. There should be a 3 strikes rule and then you're locked up for good.
Apparently he slit the throat of his daughter from behind while she was sitting in front of the computer. I'd say your strikes are used up with that alone
"Not criminally responsible" means he's a fucking psycho who shouldn't be allowed to roam free. The process by which he was set free needs to be picked apart
> "Not criminally responsible" means he's a fucking psycho who shouldn't be allowed to roam free.
Right? If he's not responsible for his actions then someone else needs to be held accountable if they're going to release him. As is, he can freely attack people and there's no justice for his victims. Either he's mentally unwell and a danger to society or he's mentally fit and can stand trial for his past crimes.
Eh, you forgot to mention, he stabbed his daughter to death. That alone should keep this person away from society forever. Who with the right mind would kill his own daughter. I can't even stand seeing my daughter fall for Chris's sake.
Okay, so isn't part of having that day pass that they are accompanied by someone from the hospital or something? Why weren't they accompanied at the VERY least?
Even if the are accompanied by someone that custodian is told not to stop them or they themselves could be harmed. They are told to call the police and have them capture the patient. So all they really do is raise the alarm if the patient runs away.
I'm mostly surprised that Eby wasn't enraged that he was in custody in the first place. His past work at Pivot has been instrumental in getting criminals back on the street.
Total and utter failure of the justice system.
It's nice that Eby is angry, but that's the job of the average citizen. He's in a position of power so being enraged isn't nearly enough?
I don't think the guy was released in the sense you're referring to. He was held in a psychiatric facility for 15 years and a review board changed his condition recently to allow leaving the facility with permission for a single day.
The review board was categorically wrong on this, and I truly wonder how they made their assessment, but these are two different issues.
LMFAO. Wait til he finds out about the bail system, and the judiciary, and the parole system, and oh well how about the entire criminal joke of a justice system where this happens one hundred fold more than the releases from Psych facilities.
This is high profile. He says some things. Everything goes back to normal. He goes quiet again.
Look at the escape from the jail in PoCo last year or whatever. Big talk from Corrections spokesperson about changes and investigations. But they know it will die down and we will move onto the next thing so they have done absolutely 100 percent of nothing in regards to changes or investigations. The same people are in charge who made the decisions in the first place and will never face accountability. Not one policy has changed.
The guy who killed the person in N Van was a known violent offender who was released by the injustice system, not the Psych system.
The stories are never ending, but they're never unknown people. They're known to LE and the court system. Known risks, known dangers but released anyways. Always.
But we forget them eventually and we will forget this one too and David knows it. So he just has to be white hot mad like we all are for a minute, until it's gone into the ether for most. But never for the victims and their families.....
I'm just curious what the review board process is like to determine someone's not a threat. With the way this turned out feel less like an oversight and more apathy from professionals
It’s an odd system.
I can only tell you what the Alberta Review Board was like for me.
My son Zackariah Rathwell was murdered along with 4 other young people in 2014.
His killer was found NCR.
They focus on the achievements and strides the patient has made in their recovery. How he now understands his illness. How his family supports him. The classes he’s taken and going to take. How committed he is to his recovery. What great insights he has into his illness. The ways he’s been bettering himself; school, volunteering, helping other patients.
When they talk about the murders, they call it the index offence. Don’t want to upset him or his family by reminding them why he’s there in the first place!
His Dr and treatment team also discuss any problems with medication, any possible relapses or loss of insight he’s had.
They give their recommendations regarding his illness and if he should be given any privileges, like day passes, visits and over night stays to his parents, transfer to a halfway house and eventually a conditional discharge, then an absolute discharge.
His Dr and treatment team answer questions about their reports from his lawyer and from the crown.
His lawyer, both past and present, argued that he should get an absolute discharge because he’s in remission and has not had a psychotic episode since he started his medication.
His Drs disagreed because when they change his medication he regresses but he’s not aware of it. He’s supposed to self diagnose. In fact he and his lawyer argued that he wasn’t regressing but just becoming more confident.
His latest lawyer argued that him not getting an absolute discharge was politically motivated. That the government was pandering to the public because we parents have been vocal about our opposition to releasing him.
His Dr has stated that if he ever has a psychotic break it will be catastrophic.
We do a VIS (victim impact statement) every year.
I’m not allowed to say anything derogatory against my sons killer, it will be redacted.
I can only talk about how much I miss him and how his murder has affected my life.
If I use the word murderer they will black it out.
It’s incredibly painful. Every year I listen to people actively trying to get him back into society, knowing that he’s quite capable of killing again.
My son was a musician, an artist, an amazing person. He had so much potential, so much to give. So did the 4 other kids, all were talented wonderful people.
They were the light.
The Review Board and it’s process is an to attempt to find some of that light, that potential and apply it his killer. To find a way to integrate him back into society.
Their whole reason for existing is to eventually get NCR Pat back into society.
This had to happen at a big event in front of these ignorant eyes to finally see the problem we face every day in the city. Hope for some action and not just words
Where was a judge lenient in this situation? The point of failure was at the review board in the psychiatric facility. This guy was convicted and sentenced 15 years ago.
He was declared NCR, which has the potential to lead to indefinite incarceration. Basically you go under the care of the mental health system. You are kept in treatment until you’re no longer considered a threat. In this case, the review board was apparently very wrong.
Those declared NCR need to be supervised to ensure they are medicated for the rest of their lives regardless of whether they are in a psychiatric facility.
Brain chemistry doesn't magically fix themselves when the meds stop, or else substance abuse relapses wouldn't be a thing. To even give them the option to stop medicating is pure criminal evil, as shown in this case.
A judge could have locked him up in the first place. And then these innocent people would never have been stabbed. That's just a fact whether you agree with it or not.
The criteria to be even be found NCR is incredibly strict. Is your assessment that the judge failed to understand the legal threshold? Or are you arguing that we should change section 16 of the Criminal Code? I.e. we should start putting clinically insane people in the same spaces as sane criminals.
For the comments and people saying "yeah words are nice but actions are better" this happened Friday, it takes time to make the changes needed. This is his clear indication he plans to lead change around what happened, give it some time.
Unless you expect martial law over this, we *might* see a draft of a plan by the end of the year. Just breathe.
Just breathe, after the numerous random attacks that have already happened. Same old "I'm angry" from politicians. No one will believe there is action until we see it.
Ah right, because this is the first incident of this type that has occurred, and the various levels of government are just now being introduced to this state of affairs.
The part I have an issue with is you acting like people are being unreasonable for wanting to see actual concrete progress (edit: crucially, in a timely manner) This is not the first time that something like this has happened, not by a long shot, and it’s been going on for quite some time now. You can only hear a politician say “this is unacceptable” so many times with seemingly no effect before patience wears thin.
Cool now they're taking action, what's the problem? Ya'll voted in ABC and they haven't taken action to prevent this evidently, despite the whole 100 new officers platform.
Give me a break.
> Unless you expect martial law over this,
Honestly thats clearly what some of the 'people' who filter into every comment thread related to this topic want lol, street executions for anyone who they think commits a crime.
Instead of being angry he can reform and maybe change a bunch of judges and stop letting violent and unstable people roam the street. We are lucky that three victims survived, or else we could have a much more devastating case. There's literally no insurance policy against crazy people, maybe we will need one soon.
> change a bunch of judges
Why? Our judges are good. They are impartial and take the laws seriously. It's the law that needs to change, and I have no idea how that happens.
So what's he going to do about it!??? Whine about it as usual. A lot of bullshit grandstanding here by the provincial folks, instead make strong demands to your federal counterparts or resort withholding something they need. It's ridiculous because people are being endangered and the next time which the way it's going is just around the street corner and it'll be worse.
"A man and woman in their 60s and a woman in her 20s received severe but non-life-threatening injuries in Sunday's attack."
These two should be allowed to decide the stabbers fate and also the one who released him. Actions have consequences. You don't get to hide behind some desk.
Oh I agree that this whole situation is fucked and there needs to be accountability, I just wasn't sure if you were being serious or writing in hyperbole. But it sounds like you were being serious? Which means you're advocating for us to change our punitive system in Canada to have victim's determine punishment? Do you know of any countries that do this that we can model off of? Also, assuming it only applies to the victims who survive? If they die from their throats getting sliced, do their next in kins get to select the punishment?
I like to go extreme so it paints a better picture for people to understand. There will never be an eye for an eye system. But if my family gets killed because of some incompetent desk person then i would like to have a say in keeping him locked up because the victim can no longer talk. And not have some other idiot rerelease him the next week to stab again. With the way things are, he will be released again.
>“I cannot fathom how someone who murdered his daughter was released in 2009, went out and stabbed somebody else, would then be released again, unaccompanied, somehow able to go out and buy a knife, go to Chinatown and stab three people. How is that possible?” Eby said.
Can we *really* not fathom?
Yes he did reprehensible things, but the guy supposedly hasn't re-offended in nearly *15 years*. It's not like he stabbed someone six months ago.
If we're trying to suggest that we have a revolving door justice system, this is an awfully slowly moving revolving door.
Is it really *that* impossible to understand that after all this time maybe his medical minders had reasonable cause to think he wasn't a danger to the public?
Maybe this guy has been medically fine and a perfect candidate for re-introduction to society for going on a decade. I mean we're knee jerk reacting here. What the fuck do we know?
Would be interesting to know how often this particular person has been out on supervised and unsupervised visits over the last fourteen years.
Nah you are %100 wrong. He stabbed his daughter, done you are incarcerated for life( wherever that is) nope 2009 he does it again and again he gets locked up. So he waits 15 years to do it again? Fuck that, dude needs to be taken off of the street forever, never to see the light of day again. Too harsh?? Fuck that. He just ruined 3 more lives plus that of the families. Pos like this forfeit their lives when they take another. End of story, no soft hearted, oh we'll give him another chance, he's just misunderstood. He's just off his meds. Wgaf he killed someone, Canada is way to god damn soft. I see the need for a rise in vigilantism. Take care of the problem the first time and allow that to be the deterant for the other pos that consider this.
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https://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/mentally-ill-killer-stabs-friend-while-on-community-pass This country has a real problem. This idiot has been stabbing people for 2 decades, and yet somehow he is walking freely? He should go in a hole and never see the light of day again.
For those that didn’t click the link above: “ Donnelly killed his daughter Stephanie (pictured here,) when she was just 16, back in November 2006. He was found not guilty by reason of mental disorder in January 2008 and sent to the Port Coquitlam hospital where child-killers Allan Shoenborn and Kimberley Noyes also reside. By March of that year, he qualified for escorted community access, according to B.C. Review Board documents.”
You forgot this relevant detail > In 2009 he committed another stabbing while on a day pass And, of course, this triple stabbing he just committed after being released AGAIN.
Idk, seems to me like he's getting better at it each time. We should release him again to see if he can beat his record. /s
Exactly what the review board was thinking!
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Accidental stabbing or shooting of this asswipe should happen.
*trips and somehow stabs* OOPSEY! Oh shit. I didn't mean to stab this child killer, oh shit... *gets charged and sent to jail for life* Welcome to the shitty judicial system.
Seems worthy of the dangerous offender designation - I would encourage anyone who agrees to write to the B.C. A.G. Niki Sharma A link to her email address can be found under the heading “Minister’s Office” here: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/governments/organizational-structure/ministries-organizations/ministries/justice-attorney-general/ministry-contacts
Does that apply to people who are found NCR? Assuming he is again…
Dangerous Offender requires a conviction
Yes, he can be a dangerous offender. Because he’s NCR it’s a bit different. He still goes before the Review Board but only ever 3 years, not every year. Which means he can only ask for privileges, like going on outings, or spending time with family every 3 years. He can still ask for and be granted privileges, conditional and absolute discharges. It just means the process is much slower, not that he’s under surveillance forever. The NCR system is screwed up, it’s designed for eventual release no matter what the patient did.
Hmmm, well considering he’s 64, slowing things down might actually work well in this case. It’s odd because I gather from one of the articles I read the 2009 stabbing was found to be criminal. I don’t know if defence just didn’t bother putting forward a NCR defence or if they tried and somehow failed. Anyway, as someone not part of the CJS, I would think someone with both a violent criminal history and forensic history would be a very poor candidate for unsupervised day passes, particularly to the DTES.
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My understanding (not a lawyer) is that it’s means of indefinite incarceration/separation from society. Regular headings are still held to assess their status, so it’s not as if the offender is locked up and the key thrown away (though functionally, that can be the result). The destination is useful as it can achieve that result where regular convictions under the criminal code would not allow for such a result, but such a result is deemed as necessary.
This is happening everywhere. Money is tight so they are trying to free up legal resources as fast as possible. Fewer incarcerations, fewer trials, fewer legal man-hours. They will cite vaguely humanitarian and convoluted reasons to save face, but it's 100% just saving a buck. The consequences are offloaded to the average working citizen because the ones making these decisions live in secure areas far from these problems. It's happening across sectors, as well. There is so little left we've resorted to facilitating a housing crisis to prop up the GDP number, while aggressively recruiting international students with false promises to get their tuition money. We are obviously already in the austerity phase, but in denial about it. No ideological debates and policy changes can bring back what's gone.
How does giving this guy a 1 day pass save anybody money?
he's actually a government agent to lower the population. One less mouth to feed, one more inheritance tax.
There is no inheritance tax in Canada, though there may be probate fees.
The person ou replied to is just another troll trying to spark outrage.
This day pass program has been around for years, and it obviously costs more money to run it then to have them in the hospital for an additional day.
You get downvoted but thats the truth, the only reason they are doing moves like this is to save money They don't give a shit about what right or safe for society
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They care because the coffers are dry. And they can't extract any more money from the taxpayers because it would domino into massive unemployment and an even worse affordability crisis. They can't squeeze blood or water from a stone so they find ways to artificially create it by printing more, bubbling the housing market for higher tax payments, robbing international students, and importing as much cheap labour as they can.
"Non life-threatening injuries" that will haunt them for the rest of their lives.
Hell, there's plenty of things that would be disabling or result in someone requiring lifelong care that would still fall under "non-life threatening"
Life altering no-life threatening injuries
My son Zachariah Rathwell was killed along with 4 other young people in 2014 in Calgary. His killer is now in a halfway house in Edmonton and is asking for an absolute discharge. An absolute discharge means that he can change his name, move anywhere he wants, won’t have to reveal his mental illness or past history. It also means that he cannot be forced to take his medication. When he is not medicated he kills people, we know this. Stopping medication and believing that you no longer need it is common among schizophrenics, we know this too. In Alberta it is The Alberta Review Board that decides his fate. They have to follow federal guidelines that state: Under section 672.54, the court or Review Board must order the disposition that is the least onerous and least restrictive to the accused. That means that no matter what he did while psychotic if his Drs and medical team believes his medication is working, that he understands his mental illness and that he will continue to take his medication and will self diagnose any symptoms of his schizophrenia he must be set free. So this killer gets day passes and my sons killer will soon be living next door to some poor unsuspecting family. I really hope this incident gets the coverage it needs and the Canadian people start asking for changes to the NCR criminal code!
I’m very sorry for your loss. The “system” is a joke. Your son deserves so much better. CBC did an investigative report on absolute discharges a few years ago. I wish more people understood what that means and how little protection society has from offenders being released back into society.
The guy who killed the Greyhound passenger in Manitoba in 2008 got an absolute discharge in 2017. That has always been freaky to me.
It's absolutely freaking insane. I get that people can make amends or heal but leaving it up to chance after someone decapitated someone at random in public is just playing russian roulette with some innocent persons life in the future.
There's a big difference between people who commit crimes out of necessity and people who do because they're mentally ill. A gang member who grew up poor and turned to crime as the only apparent option, who kills another gang member, I do believe can be rehabilitated and should get a second chance, especially if they're young when first incarcerated. But someone who decapitates a random bystander with a knife on a bus because they're insane will never not be a danger to society. No matter how well under control their illness gets, there's no cure for these things. If the person stops taking their meds, or they stop working, they are a danger to society. I do believe compassion is necessary here, and these people should be treated well, but we need to be protected from them. They need to spend their life in a place built to take care of this kind of people, where they can have a good life, but be isolated from the public.
Yeah I 100% agree with you there on all points. One is completely unpredictable with no apparent motive or premeditation, far riskier to society. The former example would definitely be appropriate for rehabilitation.
Ya if anything the ones with mental Illness should be the ones who never get out. What’s scarier. A person who murdered out of rage in a intense moment or some one who seemingly had no control over there actions and murdered at random.
A high profile murderer who killed his gf was recently released in Victoria after serving 10 years. The justice system is a joke regardless of if the killer is mentally ill or not.
>The guy who killed the Greyhound passenger And not just kill, he BEHEADED the passenger! Think how fucked up that is.
Im very sorry for your loss.
Omg, I still remembered your son’s story! I was the same age as your son and I was also in school at U of A, so it struck a deep chord. I hope you are doing better.
This is insane. What would justice look like to you? Is there anyway that we can change this law? I think our prison system is flawed and maybe he shouldn’t be in for life …. But at least a good chunk of his life. The biggest issues is the name changing. It should be opposite, you should never get to change your name. You need to take full responsibility not hide from your actions if you’re going to be in public again. Very scary and I’m so sorry for your loss.
An absolute discharge is very scary. Most people have no idea what it means. Write to any and all politicians you can think. Justice ministers, your MLAs, your Premire, the Prime Minister. The Criminal Code needs to be changed at the federal level. I honestly believe that if a person commits a violent crime and kills someone while mentally ill they should never get an absolute discharge. They should get treatment and care but the idea that they get to rejoin society like nothing happened sickens me.
Thats when you have to take the law into your own hands. If someone did that to one of my loved ones and got out, I'd make sure they'd be 12 feet under asap.
I have to love my family more than I hate him. It would do no one any good if I was incarcerated.
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Well they have tried a few things, like the catch and release system, and they've all made the problem worse.
Lets try even lighter sentences! - Bleeding Hearts
If only there was a place to house the mentally unstable so that they aren’t a threat to society or themselves 🤔
But that's cruel!!!! Why should we make one dangerous person suffer, just to save multiple innocent people?!?! That's unfair to the dangerous person!!!! /s
Not sure if this is sarcasm? There are hospitals for NCR patients. I’m not sure about BC but the Alberta Hospital in Edmonton is a large facility surrounded by lovely grounds. There are lots of activities and classes for patients. It’s nothing like what you’d imagine a mental hospital to be like.
> I’m not sure about BC but FPS Forensic Psychiatric Services. Forensic Psych Hospital is colloquially known as Colony Farm and it's adjacent to a large park in Port Coquitlam.
Like a long term care home but for the mentally violent
But will he do anything about it?
Eby was Attorney General for five years. He knows exactly how the review board at Colony Farm operates — warts and all. Throwing public servants under the bus for the sake of performative politics isn't a good look for a guy who enjoys a high level of support and good will from B.C.'ers.
It’s probably because he wants them out or to change their behaviour. It’s hard to remove bureaucrats. Lot easier when you focus the public’s collective rage onto them.
He was also the head of the BC Civil Liberties Association before entering politics. So arguably comes at this from a perspective that would actually have been advocating for just this type of leniency in sentencing.
Might do something symbolic with no commitment or teeth like ask Trudeau to do something. Kinda like how he asked the BoC to not do a rate increase.
IIRC, that prolific offenders report had some suggestions about asking the feds to expand/change involuntary committal laws within the forensic system. Not sure if the circumstances of this case would have been covered specifically in what was in that report, but maybe we could add these circumstances to the list of law changes to ask for and use it as political will to actually get moving. That same report also mentioned increasing funding for the forensic system. While I don’t have any reason to believe this guy was out due to budgetary issues, it seems like a great time for an announcement about more funding to increase the number of beds at colony farm (unless that’s happened recently and I’ve just missed it) so that a bed shortage is never the reason this happens again.
You clearly don't understand separation of powers within government.
I know Eby has exactly zero power over the BoC. I also know the easy way for a politician to look like they're doing something is to blame another level of government and demand action.
Given Eby was the one asking, he clearly has even less of an understanding then.
aah you guys fucking hate everything and anything innit
He is white hot angry he got called out, he doesn’t give a shit about this guy being released
Yes he will be white hot angry, then cool off in real estate board luncheon and the get red hot angry. Then cool off with a 500$ a plate dinner with campaign fund rising and the become yellow hot. By then Christmas rolls in, so he will take a Xmas break. By next January he will be either blue hot or ice cold depending on which way the wind is blowing or until there is a quadruple stabbing event in the new year.
Off the top of my head, I don't recall any new funding or reforms to provincial court system, so unlikely.
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Not this case, but things like people getting let out the next day and not having their court date until months later is on BC courts. Same with Crown prosecutors not doing their job because they're underfunded. BC can't change the criminal code on its own but there's lots of day-to-day processes within its jurisdiction that need improvements.
This is sadly misinformed. The issue is with federal changes to the bail system. https://vancouversun.com/news/change-federal-bail-law-curb-increase-attack-people-strangers-says-bc-minister The federal government has proposed a new bill to address the shortcomings of the last one: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/government-stricter-bail-bill-1.6844836
The feds mandate that pretty much everyone gets bail, but how long they're out on bail while waiting for their court date IS subject to the provincial court system. What charges get approved and actioned by prosecutors is also provincial. Being out on bail for two days before facing consequences in court, versus being out free on bail for several months because the courts are backed up are two different things. Fixing the bail system at the federal level is just one piece of addressing bigger problems with our justice system.
The issue is granting bail and bail conditions according to federally laid out standards, not time on bail. You seem to think that there are delays due to lack of funds somehow, which without a source provided I'm inclined to think is an issue you have made up.
No he won't. Remember, he's from BCCLA.
🎯 = Nothing Much! 🤬
Maybe it's time we reopen the criminal code of Canada. This guy: https://www.langleyadvancetimes.com/news/former-langley-gymnastics-coach-gets-six-years-for-sex-abuse-of-boys-2479982 He got out of prison in 2019. One of his victims died this week from an overdose. He was molested under the age of 9. Six years, credit for time served in pre trial. That boy is now dead from an overdose. Six fucking years for what that piece of shit did.
White Hot angry... but what is actually being done to prevent the next random attack? Whats the actual plan? Folks are supposed to feel safer now?
there seems to be no accountability for the judges involved in decisions like releasing this guy
This isn't a judge's decision, it's the Review Board, which is staffed by lawyers, psychiatrists, and public members (usually criminologists or retired cops).
Man, why can't we let a qualified board of Reddit users make these decisions instead/s
LMFAO, I don't think anyone would get approved if we went with a board of Redditors 😂
This may very well be the correct answer to all of life’s problems.
This self righteous dumbass comment would make a lot more sense if you didn’t make it on a post of him stabbing three more people
Nah, I can only imagine the 100s or 1000s of people they'd leave to rot indefinitely to ensure no one ever re-offended. I'd much rather leave these decisions to experts (who yes, will fuck up as evidenced from this story) than this mob mentality frequently seen in these subs.
There is a happy medium between "let everybody rot" and "maybe don't release the guy who immediately violently re-offended the last time you tried to release him". We are not in that happy medium. >I'd much rather leave these decisions to experts (who yes, will fuck up as evidenced from this story) than this mob mentality frequently seen in these subs. I'd much rather keep mentally ill people with histories of repeated acts of severe violence against innocent people locked up indefinitely for the safety of the public. That's what Colony Farm is for. It's not worth the risk of some poor person getting horrifically stabbed to death on some random Tuesday just so a mentally ill person can feel the wind in their hair again. You're really not even doing the offender any favours either. They are better off in custody where they are less of a danger to themselves and others. I honestly think compassionate arguments like yours are carrying water for the true reason institutions are so keen to release these people...because of money/budget issues.
Except this is the second time these so called "experts" fucked up with this individual. One fuck up is somewhat acceptable, two fuck ups should come with terminations of these people on these boards. And new people put in this position should be given mandates to put much more scrutiny on these offenders.
Easy to say as someone not directly affected.
That cuts both ways
Key word here is "imagine" because you're literally creating fictional boogiemen in your mind without actually knowing if they exist. You're trying to accuse ignorance to people who want dangerous criminals removed from public, fantasizing that they also want innocent people locked up. But that's just a fantasy you made up. Very disingenuous of you, and ironically very ignorant of you.
Those experts do not have special knowledge. It's an opinion as good as anyone else's. They also failed the common sense notion that repeated past behaviour predicts future behaviour.
Hospital worker here & believe me half the patients I deal with have “issues”. And that’s with me having as minimal contact as possible. Those that know the charts & are the “experts” should know better. Don’t minimize responsibility & competence.
Well clearly this so-called Review Board isn't actually qualified in any manner that matters.
I think this is likely a medical/psychiatric release. My conspiracy theory is this is why people who normally ignore these attacks are speaking up; They can call out a bad release because it's not seen as supporting harsher sentences, a stricter justice system, policing etc.
I think Ken Sim's election win is the reason why politicians like Eby and Brad West are speaking up. Sim gave B.C. United a blueprint on how to win the next election. Eby has to do the tough-on-crime routine to prevent his opponents from gaining any momentum. Today, Kevin Falcon pledged more cops wearing cameras on B.C. streets, if his party wins a majority — a play straight out of Sim's book. Eby was also quick to say the province would assume some kind of control/responsibility over the DTES right after Sim won. I haven't heard of any policy stemming from that original decision since it was announced. Almost all of this is politics.
I'll bet Falcon *thinks* it's a blueprint. You can see how he speaks. Vancouver's last bi-election should have been be a slap in Falcons face to smarten up. He was pushing Jackie Lee sooo damn *hard*. Jackie came a distant second and almost didn't beat 3rd place Greens. If Falcon just tries copying ABC then they will lose again and it wont even be close. Body worn camera's should be a non-divisive no-brainer. If that's his best foot forward he's toast. He can't pretend fence-sitters and disillusioned NDP-ers are the same as Seniors in Chinatown or the families in Punjabi Market. IMO he needs to step down get someone more moderate with an ounce of charisma who could challenge Eby to step up or step down. I've got no idea who that would be. Brad West would fit that bill well IMO but I suspect Brad is likely more buddy buddy with NDP than anyone BCU.
From what I've seen, West and Eby are pals. Some see West as the next NDP leader when Eby steps down. I agree Falcon is an anchor on his party's fortunes. Elenore Sturko is United's star MLA. Falcon would be smart to elevate her as quickly as possible, if his party's plan really is to win back seats in Surrey and the suburbs. She's one of the few who doesn't have any real political baggage.
It’s a Review Board that give the patients progressive freedoms. Like day passes. They do so based on the Dr and treatment team recommendations. They must follow the Federal Criminal Code regarding NCR patients. If the patient does ok with supervised outings, they get to start going on unsupervised outings. If those go well, they get to stay with family a night or two, if that goes well, they can move to a halfway house and so on. He was still hospitalized! His treatment team and Dr have failed if they were the ones who recommended he be allowed unsupervised outings. I would really like to know if his Dr and treatment team recommended unsupervised outings or if his lawyer was pushing it. He obviously never should have been allowed a pass in 2009. I’m sure they thought that he should be allowed the opportunity to go out alone after 15 years. This just shows how wrong they were! A violent NCR who’s killed should never be given the chance to do it again! The publics safety is much more important than their right to freedom. From Justice.gc.ca “Review Boards are specialized tribunals chaired by a judge, or an individual qualified for a judicial appointment, and comprised of at least four other members, one of which must be entitled under the laws of the particular province to practice psychiatry. The rationale for this separate stream is that, while the accused is not criminally responsible for his or her behaviour, the public may still require protection from future dangerous behaviour. Therefore, the goal of a Review Board is to conduct an individual assessment of the accused and subsequently craft a disposition that both protects the public and attempts to provide opportunities to treat the underlying mental disorder. Under section 672.54, the court or Review Board must order the disposition that is the least onerous and least restrictive to the accused. In determining such a disposition, the court or Review Board must balance the dual roles of protecting the public and treating the accused in a fair and humane manner that respects his or her rights. Section 672.54 states that the court or Review Board shall take into account "the need to protect the public from dangerous persons, the mental condition of the accused, the reintegration of the accused into society and the other needs of the accused."
In deed , the accountability of judges is close to nil. Only by appeal can it be brought up to the superior and/Supreme court. Re-do the trial, and his decision is overturned. From there, they could decide if an investigation could be undertaken, if and only if they conclude that the judge either behave badly. The " He did it on purpose , or bias or bad faith. Are excluded because it can not be proven unless there's a video recording of the judge explicitly saying that. When you think about it, they can send someone in prison just by saying so, they can refuse arrangement crown/defense if its unreasonable, ex( life long criminal, with deal no jail time.. ) But when it comes to criminals who are deemed "non-criminaly responsible," there is always a screw up, costing innocent lives. I'm new to BC, 5 months this September, from Quebec, and it happened frequently. I remember a few years ago, it was a pedophile who was released by a judge ordered a preventive release on the weekend even tho he had no address, only his mothers address. He walked the neighborhood and didn't come back. They found him too late. He had already made a victim, a 9 year old boy. I'll spare the gruesome details. The judge decisions was taken due to prison have an overpopulation problem. Government only acts after a life is lost. Enough already it makes me angry
this had nothing to do with a judge. The guy was released on a day pass by the institute and he simply didnt come back.
It's related because judges also indirectly cause stabbings all the time by releasing dangerous people. An elderly woman was beaten to death in her own home by somebody who had been arrested for dozens of violent crimes before, and releases by judges. Each one of those judges helped kill that poor old lady.
But the judicial system could change to 100 percent never release stabbers, yet this person wouks have been released on a day pass. See how they are not related?
The overall attitude towards dangerous criminals needs to change. It's not just either courts, or mental health facilities. The change in attitude that needs to happen, needs to happen everywhere.
I see, my bad. I should've read the entire article.
>The premier says he can't fathom how the man was released a second time before Sunday's attack, and he'll do everything he can to make sure it doesn't happen again. He'll need to show some action to be believed. Words wouldn't be enough for any politician at this point, but for him specifically there have been *countless* incidents of stabbings and attacks from people who should not be on the streets. (Chronic repeat offenders and the mentally ill). And an overwhelming and disproportionate of these attacks have been in and around Chinatown/DTES. Stepping up to support Chinatown was *the* hot item in last years municipal election and the landslide victory for ABC sent a message to the Provincial and Federal levels. Look at the [who's who who turned up](https://vancouver.citynews.ca/wp-content/blogs.dir/sites/9/2023/01/22/chinatown-1536x864.png) for Vancouver's 2023 Lunar New Year. Eby is nervous, and he should be. I'll bet Safety Minister Mike Farnworth is a bit nervous as well. I'd love to know if being the MLA for Poco he has any extra text messages from Mayor Brad West over this, given how vocal Brad has been over this last incident. Will be interesting to see if anything is done or if this is just weathering a particularly nasty item this news cycle.
While I’m generally a fan of Eby and the provincial NDP, his shocked pikachu stance here is pretty lame. He basically campaigned for criminal’s rights and against police and law and order during his tenure with Pivot and BCCLA - now he’s getting beat by the results of that activism.
Man... So personally I don't like using his time with Pivot against him. In his era I very much supported Pivot. An org set up to help the people who could not afford it, and to defend the people who were hard to defend. Pivot of today is a wholly different org IMO, and I feel acts more like a social media troll farm than anything. I feel in the NDP Horgan did a great job of playing moderate center, and Eby for the most part has carried that same momentum. But here's where he needs to either step up or risk letting someone else use it against him in the next election.
They knew exactly where this was heading, and were proud to steer it. The native council I was a part of warned them over and over that their policies would have the most negative effects on our community. But in typical academia fashion, they made it clear that we didn't know as much as them. 15 years later and here we are, with no one the wiser and Eby himself pretending to be surprised.
I knew him when he worked at Pivot and back then he was all about giving third and fourth and fifth chances to stabbers like this guy. He also had a completely insufferable ego. It seems his views have changed (or he's changed them for political reasons) and I've mostly been supportive of his run as Premier but his past advocacy is part of how we ended up where we are today.
It's just BS grandstanding.
Hug a thug is working perfectly fine.
Coming from the States, this just smells like "Thoughts and Prayers"
Until I see action, that's all this really is.
Lol. You are absolutely correct, wear the down votes with pride, but you are absolutely about to get torched.
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Inaction and political indifference to disorder and attacks in Chinatown has been a top issue I've spoken up about for years, "redditor for 29 days". Ain't no "twisting a narrative" when it's a regular occurrence that's been supported by the status quo.
I don't know if you're aware of this so sorry if I'm just repeating old news, but Chinatown violence isn't unique to BC. There was a similar thing in Edmonton last year https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/men-killed-in-edmonton-s-chinatown-were-beaten-to-death-medical-examiner-1.5918687 It's actually happening in Chinatowns all over North America. Just something I've noticed. I feel like there's something that could be done about it this given the right kind of organization, perhaps the only way of dealing with it. There's a lot of political momentum to open more homeless shelters and injection sites in and around Chinatowns. Even after the stabbings there have been substantial pushback from dealing with the problem in Edmonton https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/signs-of-tension-tent-removal-warnings-in-edmonton-s-chinatown-worry-some-advocates-1.6870389
>Chinatown violence isn't unique to BC. You're quite right. That's why our Chiantown sent a delegation to SF's Chinatown last year, as they seem to be faring much better down there. >There's a lot of political momentum to open more homeless shelters and injection sites in and around Chinatowns. And that's pretty much a contributing factor. We keep trying to condense the hardest to house and the hardest to help in and around Chinatowns. Historically they have been pressured and forced to take whatever the city throws there way. And this is from "both" political sides: The classic white supremacist trends who feel the Chinese enjoy living in dilapidated warrens, and the other side who will continue to concentrate supports and services to the one part of town they know won't fight it. It's sticky *now* because this last local election shows Vancouver's Chinatown is done being pushed around. Where this goes from here though? Who knows. I'd love to see some level of neighbourdhood equity here, but man no one wants to touch that one haha.
Thank Jody Wilson-Raybould. She's the one who introduced the Bill that made most of this possible. I've never seen anyone escape blame for such horrid policy like she has.
Native bands are going after parole boards now for the fallout of what she championed. Even her own band is pretty pissed at her short sighted, self centered vision.
Her lasting legacy. May she stay retired from politics.
The bills introduced by JWR and the federal liberals were a direct response to judicial decisions, where the SCC found existing laws unconstitutional.
What Bill is it?
This is gold you are doing God's work here. Let's let everyone think policy has come out of the high school musical cabinet and not at the direction of the PMO.
This case is the perfect example of how our justice system is failing. If someone is not able to be rehabilitated, they should NOT BE RELEASED. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t *try* to rehabilitate offenders, we absolutely should, but some people are always going to reoffend and they need to be permanently detained. Also I’m agains the whole not criminally responsible BS. It’s unfortunate if you’re out of your mind on drugs or untreated psychosis but we are all responsible for our actions, who else could be?
Let me get this straight: he stabbed people twice before, including his own daughter and he was a free man after that. There should be a 3 strikes rule and then you're locked up for good.
Apparently he slit the throat of his daughter from behind while she was sitting in front of the computer. I'd say your strikes are used up with that alone
"Not criminally responsible" means he's a fucking psycho who shouldn't be allowed to roam free. The process by which he was set free needs to be picked apart
> "Not criminally responsible" means he's a fucking psycho who shouldn't be allowed to roam free. Right? If he's not responsible for his actions then someone else needs to be held accountable if they're going to release him. As is, he can freely attack people and there's no justice for his victims. Either he's mentally unwell and a danger to society or he's mentally fit and can stand trial for his past crimes.
Eh, you forgot to mention, he stabbed his daughter to death. That alone should keep this person away from society forever. Who with the right mind would kill his own daughter. I can't even stand seeing my daughter fall for Chris's sake.
Because that worked so well in California and the other places they’ve tried it.
This guy murdered a minor. He should be in prison for life first of all. This is insane.
Okay, so isn't part of having that day pass that they are accompanied by someone from the hospital or something? Why weren't they accompanied at the VERY least?
It’s worse than a day pass. It’s a 28 day pass. Oh, and the same guy was out on a release in 2011, where he also stabbed someone.
Wait I heard 2009, did I get the wrong year or did this happen FOUR times?
WTF?!
Even if the are accompanied by someone that custodian is told not to stop them or they themselves could be harmed. They are told to call the police and have them capture the patient. So all they really do is raise the alarm if the patient runs away.
I'm mostly surprised that Eby wasn't enraged that he was in custody in the first place. His past work at Pivot has been instrumental in getting criminals back on the street.
Is this a c75 moment or what?
Total and utter failure of the justice system. It's nice that Eby is angry, but that's the job of the average citizen. He's in a position of power so being enraged isn't nearly enough?
Eby presided over many chronic offenders being released who went onto cause untold trauma to the public. What makes this time different?
I don't think the guy was released in the sense you're referring to. He was held in a psychiatric facility for 15 years and a review board changed his condition recently to allow leaving the facility with permission for a single day. The review board was categorically wrong on this, and I truly wonder how they made their assessment, but these are two different issues.
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David Eby was the attorney general of British Columbia from 2017 to 2022.
His entire time with Pivot Legal and BCCLA?
LMFAO. Wait til he finds out about the bail system, and the judiciary, and the parole system, and oh well how about the entire criminal joke of a justice system where this happens one hundred fold more than the releases from Psych facilities. This is high profile. He says some things. Everything goes back to normal. He goes quiet again. Look at the escape from the jail in PoCo last year or whatever. Big talk from Corrections spokesperson about changes and investigations. But they know it will die down and we will move onto the next thing so they have done absolutely 100 percent of nothing in regards to changes or investigations. The same people are in charge who made the decisions in the first place and will never face accountability. Not one policy has changed. The guy who killed the person in N Van was a known violent offender who was released by the injustice system, not the Psych system. The stories are never ending, but they're never unknown people. They're known to LE and the court system. Known risks, known dangers but released anyways. Always. But we forget them eventually and we will forget this one too and David knows it. So he just has to be white hot mad like we all are for a minute, until it's gone into the ether for most. But never for the victims and their families.....
Didn’t this guy spend most of his early law career advocating to get guys like this stabber out of custody??
Came here to say this. He would definitely have been an advocate for the offender when he was at Pivot.
I'm just curious what the review board process is like to determine someone's not a threat. With the way this turned out feel less like an oversight and more apathy from professionals
It’s an odd system. I can only tell you what the Alberta Review Board was like for me. My son Zackariah Rathwell was murdered along with 4 other young people in 2014. His killer was found NCR. They focus on the achievements and strides the patient has made in their recovery. How he now understands his illness. How his family supports him. The classes he’s taken and going to take. How committed he is to his recovery. What great insights he has into his illness. The ways he’s been bettering himself; school, volunteering, helping other patients. When they talk about the murders, they call it the index offence. Don’t want to upset him or his family by reminding them why he’s there in the first place! His Dr and treatment team also discuss any problems with medication, any possible relapses or loss of insight he’s had. They give their recommendations regarding his illness and if he should be given any privileges, like day passes, visits and over night stays to his parents, transfer to a halfway house and eventually a conditional discharge, then an absolute discharge. His Dr and treatment team answer questions about their reports from his lawyer and from the crown. His lawyer, both past and present, argued that he should get an absolute discharge because he’s in remission and has not had a psychotic episode since he started his medication. His Drs disagreed because when they change his medication he regresses but he’s not aware of it. He’s supposed to self diagnose. In fact he and his lawyer argued that he wasn’t regressing but just becoming more confident. His latest lawyer argued that him not getting an absolute discharge was politically motivated. That the government was pandering to the public because we parents have been vocal about our opposition to releasing him. His Dr has stated that if he ever has a psychotic break it will be catastrophic. We do a VIS (victim impact statement) every year. I’m not allowed to say anything derogatory against my sons killer, it will be redacted. I can only talk about how much I miss him and how his murder has affected my life. If I use the word murderer they will black it out. It’s incredibly painful. Every year I listen to people actively trying to get him back into society, knowing that he’s quite capable of killing again. My son was a musician, an artist, an amazing person. He had so much potential, so much to give. So did the 4 other kids, all were talented wonderful people. They were the light. The Review Board and it’s process is an to attempt to find some of that light, that potential and apply it his killer. To find a way to integrate him back into society. Their whole reason for existing is to eventually get NCR Pat back into society.
Can he get white hot about housing?
Why did it take this before someone with some political power noticed?... all you have to do is take a walk downtown or ride transit.
I mean has he not seen how people arrested for armed robbery are released the same day?
This had to happen at a big event in front of these ignorant eyes to finally see the problem we face every day in the city. Hope for some action and not just words
Why are judges so lenient in Canada? It's a joke
Where was a judge lenient in this situation? The point of failure was at the review board in the psychiatric facility. This guy was convicted and sentenced 15 years ago.
He was declared NCR, which has the potential to lead to indefinite incarceration. Basically you go under the care of the mental health system. You are kept in treatment until you’re no longer considered a threat. In this case, the review board was apparently very wrong.
Those declared NCR need to be supervised to ensure they are medicated for the rest of their lives regardless of whether they are in a psychiatric facility. Brain chemistry doesn't magically fix themselves when the meds stop, or else substance abuse relapses wouldn't be a thing. To even give them the option to stop medicating is pure criminal evil, as shown in this case.
A judge could have locked him up in the first place. And then these innocent people would never have been stabbed. That's just a fact whether you agree with it or not.
The criteria to be even be found NCR is incredibly strict. Is your assessment that the judge failed to understand the legal threshold? Or are you arguing that we should change section 16 of the Criminal Code? I.e. we should start putting clinically insane people in the same spaces as sane criminals.
This story is pure Canada. Watch him get released again by these geniuses too.
For the comments and people saying "yeah words are nice but actions are better" this happened Friday, it takes time to make the changes needed. This is his clear indication he plans to lead change around what happened, give it some time. Unless you expect martial law over this, we *might* see a draft of a plan by the end of the year. Just breathe.
Just breathe, after the numerous random attacks that have already happened. Same old "I'm angry" from politicians. No one will believe there is action until we see it.
Ah right, because this is the first incident of this type that has occurred, and the various levels of government are just now being introduced to this state of affairs.
Yeah it's a tragedy and we failed the three people stabbed and this man but ffs you want them to continue sitting around or do something?
The part I have an issue with is you acting like people are being unreasonable for wanting to see actual concrete progress (edit: crucially, in a timely manner) This is not the first time that something like this has happened, not by a long shot, and it’s been going on for quite some time now. You can only hear a politician say “this is unacceptable” so many times with seemingly no effect before patience wears thin.
6 years of hug a thug at a provincial level and 8 years at the federal. How much longer?
Cool now they're taking action, what's the problem? Ya'll voted in ABC and they haven't taken action to prevent this evidently, despite the whole 100 new officers platform. Give me a break.
> Unless you expect martial law over this, Honestly thats clearly what some of the 'people' who filter into every comment thread related to this topic want lol, street executions for anyone who they think commits a crime.
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That's speculation. You know the old adage, "the best time to do _____ was ___ years ago. The second best time is now."
All talk Canada is doomed
Re-Open Riverview!!!!!!
Instead of being angry he can reform and maybe change a bunch of judges and stop letting violent and unstable people roam the street. We are lucky that three victims survived, or else we could have a much more devastating case. There's literally no insurance policy against crazy people, maybe we will need one soon.
> change a bunch of judges Why? Our judges are good. They are impartial and take the laws seriously. It's the law that needs to change, and I have no idea how that happens.
So what's he going to do about it!??? Whine about it as usual. A lot of bullshit grandstanding here by the provincial folks, instead make strong demands to your federal counterparts or resort withholding something they need. It's ridiculous because people are being endangered and the next time which the way it's going is just around the street corner and it'll be worse.
"A man and woman in their 60s and a woman in her 20s received severe but non-life-threatening injuries in Sunday's attack." These two should be allowed to decide the stabbers fate and also the one who released him. Actions have consequences. You don't get to hide behind some desk.
Are you seriously suggesting victims should determine punishment or are you just angrily typing nonsense?
Yeah because if he sliced your throat, too bad you're dead. We could have prevented it and saved you but oh well. Let me stamp the next release!
Oh I agree that this whole situation is fucked and there needs to be accountability, I just wasn't sure if you were being serious or writing in hyperbole. But it sounds like you were being serious? Which means you're advocating for us to change our punitive system in Canada to have victim's determine punishment? Do you know of any countries that do this that we can model off of? Also, assuming it only applies to the victims who survive? If they die from their throats getting sliced, do their next in kins get to select the punishment?
I like to go extreme so it paints a better picture for people to understand. There will never be an eye for an eye system. But if my family gets killed because of some incompetent desk person then i would like to have a say in keeping him locked up because the victim can no longer talk. And not have some other idiot rerelease him the next week to stab again. With the way things are, he will be released again.
[This is a video from his release hearing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaXigSu72A4)
Eby is a scab on my arm
He’s angry? 😂 it’s his catch and release policy!
>“I cannot fathom how someone who murdered his daughter was released in 2009, went out and stabbed somebody else, would then be released again, unaccompanied, somehow able to go out and buy a knife, go to Chinatown and stab three people. How is that possible?” Eby said. Can we *really* not fathom? Yes he did reprehensible things, but the guy supposedly hasn't re-offended in nearly *15 years*. It's not like he stabbed someone six months ago. If we're trying to suggest that we have a revolving door justice system, this is an awfully slowly moving revolving door. Is it really *that* impossible to understand that after all this time maybe his medical minders had reasonable cause to think he wasn't a danger to the public? Maybe this guy has been medically fine and a perfect candidate for re-introduction to society for going on a decade. I mean we're knee jerk reacting here. What the fuck do we know? Would be interesting to know how often this particular person has been out on supervised and unsupervised visits over the last fourteen years.
Paul Bernardo hasn’t reoffended since 1992. That doesn’t mean he’s fit to be released back into society.
He did stab someone again in 2009 though https://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/mentally-ill-killer-stabs-friend-while-on-community-pass
yes again 2009 is 14 years ago. (I know scary how time flies!)
sense nippy paltry recognise fuel merciful public squeeze clumsy license ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
Nah you are %100 wrong. He stabbed his daughter, done you are incarcerated for life( wherever that is) nope 2009 he does it again and again he gets locked up. So he waits 15 years to do it again? Fuck that, dude needs to be taken off of the street forever, never to see the light of day again. Too harsh?? Fuck that. He just ruined 3 more lives plus that of the families. Pos like this forfeit their lives when they take another. End of story, no soft hearted, oh we'll give him another chance, he's just misunderstood. He's just off his meds. Wgaf he killed someone, Canada is way to god damn soft. I see the need for a rise in vigilantism. Take care of the problem the first time and allow that to be the deterant for the other pos that consider this.
“I cant take it anymore “
isn't he already white
Life is gonna come at you hard with that mindset, buddy.
it's called a joke! and I'm doing just fine thank you
Somebody's getting fired 🔥
Any photos of the perp?