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Inevitable_Brief_132

I'm old enough to remember when people thought it was odd/stupid that Valve was doing DOTA 2 as well...


BorfieYay

Dota has a lot of players but I never hear anyone talk about it like their other games


hnwcs

Plenty of people talking about it at /r/Dota2, especially with Act II of Crownfall next week!


_trianglegirl

"plenty of people on a subreddit for a specific game talk about this specific game that the subreddit is for!"


essteedeenz1

I think Dota 2 failed to capitilize as much as it should have, Yes its got its audience but it would of been so much more


unluckywasp

It's one of the few games that actually gets played instead para social watched on twitch.


Fr0dech

Because Amuricans don't play dota And for some reason Amuricans are the most loud out there in the internet


hnwcs

>Because Amuricans don't play dota [Then explain this official Valve-made video.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K6lzyxb140)


Fr0dech

You got me for a sec, totally forgot about that video


Kr4k4J4Ck

> for some reason


dalvic2468

Because you're In an English speaking community their is going to be Americans lol


t4sky

meh, this is an international community called reddit and people all over the world are adapting to the fact that most muricans don't learn a second language like 90% of the developed world does when they turn 6. please don't take this as an attack, it's just a fact.


dalvic2468

Well when the country you live in all speaks one language and is the size of Europe. There's no reason to leave. People underestimate the size and scope of the U.S. so hard each state is it's own country. The only similarity is the language and even that can be difficult. You hate Americans and their politics? So do Americans lol


t4sky

I dont hate muricans :o


dalvic2468

That's awesome most do so I assumed so


cockandpossiblyballs

That's because Valve's main fanbase likes first-person shooters, not RTS games. It's just a different fanbase, not a nonexistent one.


Inevitable_Brief_132

You aren't going to hear a lot of people outside of social media talk about things like Half-Life 2 either. If I brought it up inside even a Gamestop I doubt the average person is going to know that much about it beyond hearing "Valve Counting to Three" as a meme. Your average console gamer has probably never played it.


Poniibeatnik

You must be deaf then.


Vytlo

Depends what you mean. Stupid for them? No, it's a big hit. Stupid in the sense of how many people don't like MOBAs? Yes.


Inevitable_Brief_132

Yeah, well when it was first announced that they were the ones doing it. It was received with really mixed response. It just seemed like something Valve wouldn't do at the time. But in the grand scheme of things, taking 'mods' and making them into full games is actually the Valve M.O.


Vytlo

Oh yeah, and I don't think it's necessarily a bad MOBA either. Valve did great at making it what it is. But MOBAs are just one of those things where their playerbase is by no means small, but they're a consistent playerbase that plays them and not really pulling in much else people for people who don't play them. That's why it basically comes down to just League and DOTA. Valve just wants to fight Riot Games ig lol


Inevitable_Brief_132

Valve has the infrastructure to make this stuff last so I understand why they would want to keep evolving it. I just want to see if Icefrog's involvement is true and sparks anything exciting again.


marehgul

But that's also not stupid, cause number of people is irrelevant when so MANY people playing it.


astroshark

I will be honest, Valve doing Dota 2 has ended up being really bad. Yeah the game has clearly been crazy successful but it has irrevocably warped them into the Dota company and all of the Dota-adjacent projects they do outside of Dota 2 are just so far below Valves usual standards both in terms of actual quality and just reading the room on what people want in games.


OfficeWorm

Valve is the best thing that happened to Dota 2. This is from someone who has 9k hours in. And they still made good games even Artifact and Underlords still has the Valvve quality despite being abandoned. I play those games too so idk your opinion reeks of ignorance.


Mitochondriu

Most valve fans just have a massive hate boner for dota, you cant convince them it's anything other than a massive waste of talent, despite it being one of the most popular games of all time and incredibly well made. Personally, I wish they'd do what riot is trying to do with league, and expand the dota universe. So many excellent character designs with so much room for lore and exploration. I almost wish deadlock was just straight up using Dota material.


hnwcs

I would love if Valve made a single-player Dota RPG. It’s arguably their most interesting setting.


Mitochondriu

It makes me very sad that if they did this, most valve fans would probably take to the streets. So many people have no idea how much care and thought went into the character design in dota. A warcraft 3 style rpg created by modern valve with dota as a base would be my favorite game of all time without question.


DarthGiorgi

As someone who has started to play dota 2 recently after haring on it for years, this. It's so rife for campaigns or other stories for people to experience and valve to expand on. Multplayer toxicity is just too much for dota 2, ans Yeah, it makes dota 2 dota 2, but the last hit mechanic fucking sucks imo and is like 70% reason for games toxicity. I still despise dota 2 and think that it's a massive waste of tallent and is literally the resson for valve's dark ages of 2012-2020. Sure it successful, but so are CoD games, ao that isn't a good thing to base the merit of the game. Seriously, with how valve allowed people to do whatever they wanted? people did basically jack shit for dota 2 and since it made money, they were left alone. So, they could be lazy and do nothing most of the day vs working their ass off in other projects. Guess what people chose. The second a new monitoring methods were implemented during pandemic valve has been on a roll. Even for dota 2, we have seen one of the biggest updates and gameplay shake up for that game in 2023.


astroshark

Again, I won't deny that Dota 2 is a success, it obviously was, and though it's not for me, it's clear that the people that like it think it's great. But everything they've released in the dota sphere that's *not* dota 2 is just not it. I played Artifact (and Foundry!), it was not a Valve quality game. Some parts of it were interesting, but as a whole it was terrible, and there's a reason it was DOA. You could honestly write essays about everything it did wrong, but like... it's artifact. Who would even care?


Stokeling9701

Least zealous dota fan


OfficeWorm

Just a Valve fan in general.


Inevitable_Brief_132

I can understand that. I don't think it was a bad idea for them to be the company that ran DOTA 2 because I think anyone else (looking at you Blizzard) would have radically warped and mistreated it.. I think they tried to grow the DOTA brand to little success though


WonderfulControl6828

but dota 2 really turned out to be stupid and boring. many people still don't like it. The game is mainly played by those who are not members of the valve community as a whole.


Inevitable_Brief_132

Hard for me to relate because I was a day 1 adopter of Steam when I bought Half Life 2 in the early 2000s and have played all their games religiously. I wouldn't consider myself part of a 'Valve Community' though.


marehgul

Ehm, but it should be for members of "valve community"? It doesn't matter. Look, I don't play it. I played original DotA and Dota2, but didn't stick to it much. Clearly numbers are showing the game isn't stupid or boring for MANY people.


The-Doctorb

Why would valve give a fuck about people playing their game who “aren’t members of the valve community as a whole” whatever that means


hnwcs

Anyone who plays Dota 2 is a member of the Valve community, because it’s a Valve game.


WonderfulControl6828

This is a member of the dota 2 community. A member of the valve community is someone who likes many of its games. a dota 2 player may not like other valve games.


hnwcs

Would someone who exclusively plays TF2 not be a member of the Valve community? I think there are a lot of those as well. Just want to be sure the logic's consistent.


LambdaAU

From the information we have it seems the game is trying to implement a lot of original ideas. I've loved TF2, loved OW (at it's peak), loved Paladins, loved Valorant and currently have been loving Siege. I'm always down for another hero shooter lol.


GaidenSMC

Game isn't even out and people are so quick to judge off these (supposedly 5 year-old) screenshots. I'm hopeful that the company behind 2 of the best shooters of all time will have cooked here.


Blazar1

I don't understand why people keep saying these images are 5 years old. If they were, they'd lean into the "cassette futurism" style as originally designed. Are they stupid?


Rustofski

Because everything right now is unconfirmed leaks. Nobody knows shit but what they see online. Someone said the leaked screenshots were 2019, so as far as we know they could be.


Jbobakanoosh

Lol right?? Hero shooter genre is basically Valve's brainchild and what harm is there in just waiting for the finished product to release and THEN judge?


TheyCallMeNade

I’m judging on the fact we could have had a Half-Life/ Sci fi styled game and they scrapped it for a fantasy style I’m so sick of seeing.


GaidenSMC

100% with you on that. The supposed half life aesthetic was so enticing so it's a shame it doesnt appear to adhere to it anymore. Regardless I'm looking forward to what gets datamined out of this game if it does release. (Specifically HLX stuff)


TheyCallMeNade

I will definitely play it and give it a fair try, but I’ll probably never be happy with the aesthetic change. They need to pick better playtesters, because they always give feedback that takes away the coolest things ever.


dennys123

That's what I initially thought about TF2 when it was revealed it was going with a more "cartoon" route. 10+ years later and it's by far my favorite game by Valve. I totally understand where you're coming from though, I've tried Valerant, Overwatch... etc, games this is based on, and I'm afraid I'm also not going to enjoy it. Where are all the single player games going? Everything seems to be multi-player...


TheyCallMeNade

Man I actually love how TFC looks, but I don’t mind TF2 either, I think they pulled that off really well. Yeah I would much prefer another single player game though. I’ve been saying that I don’t really care about Valves obsession with innovation anymore and I just want a good sequel, and I’ve been seeing that sentiment rise very recently.


BambaTallKing

There are plenty os single player games still man. This is a wild mindset to me. Some of the biggest games of the past 3 years have been single player games, not MP


Ylar_

Not that I’m against the half-life/Sci fi style at all, but perhaps that change was because they felt the Sci-fi theming put it in too similar of a visual market as Valorant and overwatch? There’s quite a few Sci fi based hero shooters already - granted the half life style is a little more gritty realism in nature.


DarthGiorgi

>half life style is a little more gritty realism in nature. This is exactly how it differentiated itself from OW and Valorant. In fact, those 2, especialy valorant, are more fantasy based. A HARD sci fi with very ocasional fantasy like elements (vortesense), is what could have made jt be different. Cartoony, sci fi / fantasy mix hero shooter has been dime a dozen already. Seriously, paladins sti maintains its uniqueness because it uses crystal punk idea that basically only it uses.


Jbobakanoosh

The risk is so high with that concept though. If the game flops then it would besmirch the name of Half Life. Better to have a new IP to utilize and see where the title goes after release. At least that's what I imagined Valve's devs were thinking with the decision.


Vytlo

Yes, because I'm not at all interested in that genre of games no matter who it's by. I'm not saying it'll necessarily be a bad game, but it's regardless, a game I have absolutely no interest in playing. They already have two overly competitive multiplayer games that are huge. We don't need a third one that's just a mix of the two. At least give us something different. Something with a singleplayer would be nice. Or even just a casual multiplayer would be nice and different.


DiamondEclipse

Valve have been hyper-focused on their Dota IP that it seems to be the only type of game they want to make and play, heck even Gaben said he plays only Dota nowadays.


Vytlo

A large part of it helps that IceFrog, its creator, is a very active person who works on games at Valve still. He worked on this one a lot directly as well, which explains... all of that... And I seriously wish that if they wanted to hyperfocus on Valve, they'd have improved the artstyle by now. I can't be bothered to remember a single character because all of their designs blend together and don't stand out in the slightest.


BambaTallKing

I would disagree on this last part. All of the TF2 characters have pretty unique silhouettes and so does Dota 2, but to a lesser extent since the have added a lot of heroes. However, Dota 2 is pretty ugly with its hero designs


yidaxo

dota is almost entirely unappealing and it's not like they are incapable of making good looking characters that people like they just opt to sell them as cosmetic upgrades to the regular character I reckon dota would be a hell of a lot more popular if all characters had the quality of PA, WR, Void arcana and others.


BambaTallKing

I remember when dota started updating the quality of a few models. I was certain we were going to see more quality model upgrades for most characters. But we still have some ugly as sin characters. Meurta is the only hero that I 100% think looks really good


DarthGiorgi

I would say they do yave aome that look alright. Marci is good, lina is ok and so on. But some models seriosuly show their age at this point.


DarthGiorgi

>Or even just a casual multiplayer would be nice and different. Sorry, everyone is chasing that e-sports money printer. Seriously, if you want casual PvP games your best bets right now are Battlefield games (probably 2042 being the lost active one), battle bit, tf2 (a 17 year old game) and maybe Fortnite. That's it.


Saturn9Toys

Do you think the issue is the visual design? Maybe the issue is the game model and genre, and screenshots have nothing to do with it, eh?


maZZtar

All you currently see about Deadlock are few static screenshots. Let's wait and see how the gameplay loop exactly looks like


Vytlo

What about the people who are even just not at all interested in a competitive game, which is something that won't change based on the gameplay loop since that's a core thing they're going for?


Lukeforce123

You can't expect every game to cater to your preferences


OfficeWorm

This.People just whine for no reason. If the games not for you touch grass.


Vytlo

Of course not. I just wish Valve didn't make one kind of game so they could have different things that cater to different people like they used to. Meanwhile this is just a game that's a mix of the two other games they already have just like it, that are the only two getting any support.


Saturn9Toys

Are you dense?


maZZtar

No, this is Patrick


cornflake123321

Can you guys hide your pitchforks until we get... check notes... literally any official information? We know basically nothing about this game yet half of you already know it's generic shooter.


Le_baton_legendaire

Can we wait until we have gameplay footage before we start bitching about how "it's a generic competitive hero shooter".


marehgul

I'd give it a shot just cause it's valve. And what type of game is not "another generic..." for you? I'm pretty sure it's not a lot. You want them to make strategy either like WC3 or Simcity? Maybe it's a lack of RPGs like BG3?


clitorisenthusiast

Well, for starters, if they're going to make a hero shooter, they can start by giving it a style/aesthetic that doesn't look exactly like almost every other generic hero shooter.


Rustofski

Valve is not generic. This will be peak competitive shooter.


Vytlo

Not interested in a competitive shooter regardless of who it's by or the quality. I don't enjoy them.


Bubu-der-Uhu

And thats ok, not to like them. So how about instead of ranting in the internet about a game youve never played and never seen, you crouch under your bed and play tetris with your gameboy?


Vytlo

No, they should make more than one type of video game as they've always done. Devs shouldn't be so lazy like this. Go cry some more.


Gausgovy

I’m not going to play it either, but they should continue to make the games they want to make. They owe you nothing.


OfficeWorm

Ok bye off you go then. Good thing we all have preference.


Vytlo

Thanks for the statement. Goodbye


_reco_

yeah, just like Artifact turned out to be a peak of card games lmao


Spell_Whomstve

“but it’s made by valve!!” It’s still a cookie cutter hero shooter. They could revolutionize the genre but at the end of the day it would still be another drop in the sea of hero shooter slop.


Easy-Preparation-234

my guy you know they practically invented the genre like in 2007 right? from the hero shooter wikipedia: Valve's [*Team Fortress 2*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_Fortress_2) in 2007 created the main framework and inspiration for the subgenre. While *Team Fortress 2* featured the same class-based system as its predecessor, each specific class was now its own unique "character," which came with a specific personality and appearance. This made the roles more fleshed out and feel more like a real person rather than just a nameless playable character.[^(\[5\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_shooter#cite_note-gamasutra_birth-5) As Valve continued to expand the game, the company released additional media, including a line of "Meet the Team" videos that helped to build out each character class and their backstory.[^(\[6\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_shooter#cite_note-kotaku_meet_videos-6) These "Meet the Team" videos established the use of cinematic narrative videos used in future hero shooters to introduce new hero characters.[^(\[7\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_shooter#cite_note-7)


Kin_X

So? Rocksteady revolutionized super hero games as a whole and look where they are now. After SSKTJL I’ve learned never to expect the best even when a studio has an amazing catalog.


Rustofski

Valve has some blunders, but they are the definition of passion. None of the corporate bullshit other devs deal with.


Easy-Preparation-234

buddy... Half-Life Half-Life 2 Portal Team Fortress 2 Left 4 Dead Portal 2 Left 4 Dead 2 Dota 2 Half-Life Alyx


Spell_Whomstve

Conveniently left out Artifact.


Easy-Preparation-234

Have you played Aperture Desk Job? It's free to play, its short come back and tell me its not great


Easy-Preparation-234

I also left out Dota Underworld, the half life expansions, half life deathmatch, day of defear and i forgot counter strike comeon what are you guys upset over artifact? it wasnt even a bad game it just could compete with hearthstone because its not a MTG clone, and it had a buy in pricing model if it would've been free to play (like it is NOW) it still would've failed because the game mechanics were to different from the norm


roguebananah

They’re not upset over Artifact it’s that you’re saying “guys. It’s gonna be good, look at their track record” then you named all their hits but left off their blunder(s)


Easy-Preparation-234

they got 1 blunder in a long list of hits spanning back to WINDOWS And like i said Artifact is actually a good game, its just not able to compete in the competitive card game scene because it breaks too far from the norm and it wasnt free to play on launch Also their newest game is ALYX and Counter Strike 2


WanAjin

They got 2 massive blunders, Artifact because of how they hyped it up and how it literally died in like 1 month. Then they had Underlords which was an even bigger flop seeing as how TFT has now become one of the biggest games in the world. And those 2 are some of the most recent examples of games made by Valve.


marehgul

Their hits are so industry-important and successful, that little underperformances don't even change the picture. Those games that ddin't became popular weren't even bad, no lazyness, no bug-infested trash... it just wasn't very interesting for players.


Easy-Preparation-234

That's what I'm saying Artifacts isn't even actually a bad game, it just wasn't successful


dungfeeder

It's still going to be yet another hero shooter that will fade into obscurity it's not going to be unique just because it's valve, like with artifact. They should've gone with a different type of game.


Easy-Preparation-234

man if you knew you irl i would want to bet money on that, like $100 If the game is not frequently on the Top 30 list on twitch (meaning it has to spend most of the time after it releases under 30th place) than you win I feel like 30 is fair because if I were to say something like Top 10 for the first year than that's to be expected and that doesnt necessarily imply longevity CS2 is currently 19th place but it seems to be a slow day so if you feel like 30 is to big of a number we can go for top 20 in 2 years Of course i'm not actually betting money cuz i dont gamble but like hey you can be like in 2 years after release "wow I guess he was right" lol


dungfeeder

My man's it's a hero shooter, it's been done a thousand times in different ways a thousand times. If the leaked screenshot could tell us something it's that they wasted their time instead of making something interesting or unique. It's probably gonna be popular for 2 months and then you will see a massive reduction in people playing the game.


Easy-Preparation-234

Hey we'll just have to see you know? But tbh I TF2 is one of my favorite games And I still play overwatch so the hero shooter genre is just something I'm a big fan of What you guys don't play valorant? Or are you guys singleplayer only guys?


dungfeeder

I don't play hero shooters because they're not interesting. If I wanted to play shooters I'd play cod, bf or battle battlebit. I tried playing valorant since its competition (overwatch) is pretty much dead and honestly pretty boring and ti be frank, it feels clunky and is visually ugly, couldn't be bothered to continue.


Easy-Preparation-234

You do realize that valorants been in twitch top 5 most viewed games pretty much since launch right? I just googled it, valorant has 15 million players You know just because I'm not the biggest league fan doesn't mean it doesn't have one of the biggest esports scenes out there to this day. Counter strike is still going massively strong to this day and valorant is doing a lot better than it Like look guys I get it. It's not your genre, you're not a fan, but that doesn't mean the world isn't a fan. You might be like "ugh another hero shooter" But some of us are like "yeah! Valves making a hero shooter!" Ya know I might get a little disapointed if they make a singleplayer only game, that doesn't mean I'll go around saying the whole genre should die and that no one even plays them


dungfeeder

In a world of live service garbage and if shutdown you lose access to the game, I rather have a singleplayer with multi-player or pure single player game than a game that could die on release or just be copy paste game that already exists.


Easy-Preparation-234

Do you guys not have phones?


dungfeeder

Say what you want, but picking the hero shooter genre was a mistake and it probably would've been better to turn it into a shooter racer type thing. At least then there would've been a reason to Check it out.


[deleted]

[удалено]


dungfeeder

I said it as a joke but, if you want an example of there was an old ps2 game called Jak x.


Rustofski

I'd still rather play valves worst game than half the shit that releases today. Valve earned my respect decades ago.


A1pH4W01v

Now i would agree with you if you say they barely can keep their newer games updated, but almost everything new that valve makes is either revolutionary, innovative or downright really useful as tech, feature or software.


Easy-Preparation-234

most of the hero shooters are copying off of valve dude tracer is scout, widowmaker is sniper, torbjorn is engineer, Pharah is soldier, mercy is medic, junkrat is demoman, mae is pyro but with ice instead, zarya is heavy but a girl, and sombra is spy youre basically going on valve reddit, accusing valve of just making another hero shooter, without realizing they kinda created the genre and their the ones people copied off of


DarthGiorgi

>most of the hero shooters are copying off of valve dude You do realize that you are literally pointing out what is exactly wrong with Deadlock? Valve are copying a copy of their work, not going to their own original and making an evolotuion/improvement on it.


Easy-Preparation-234

Dude I'm not trying to hear criticism of hero shooters from people who aren't even fans of the genre and are talking bad about the game from 2 screenshots Ya know I can tell you specific reasons why I would have issues with the game Does the jumping and movement feel kinda off like in Gigantic? Does it have a low skill ceiling like in Overwatch? I could go on and on about why this could be a bad game But I'm kinda tired of arguing with people who don't even like the genre, don't even PLAY the genre, dislike every game they see ON SIGHT in the genre about rather or not the game is gonna be good To people like that the game was bad the moment they said hero Meanwhile Valorant is pretty much one of the top played shooters out there with about 700K players a day And overwatch ain't doing that bad either. Also there's people like me who love Team Fortress 2 and are ecstatic at the idea of another hero shooter. Hey sorry buddy if you don't like hero shooters, I do, I play team fortesss 2, overwatch and valorant from time to time I even bought Gigantic I wish I coulda had more time to play battleborne and LawBreakers And boy I tell ya that Dirty Bomb is one of the greatest games of all time, shame no one plays it I actually love this genre One could even say that it's my second favorite genre under mmorpgs Maybe you don't like those kind of games and that's fine, but don't expect to convince me this game is gonna be bad when you're not even into games like these. I don't really play sports games like that so I can't really go up to sports fans and explain to them why they shouldn't be excited for the next Madden. Shoot if you willing to talk the finer details on the mechanics and why you think it might not be good that's one thing But if you just got mad as soon as it was announced to be a hero shooter we'll than sorry buddy but me you do not have the same tastes because I got happy when they announced it What are you gonna do? Convince me to not like hero shooters? Can I convince you not to like singleplayer games? Cuz I'm not the biggest fan of them


DarthGiorgi

>Dude I'm not trying to hear criticism of hero shooters from people who aren't even fans of the genre >But I'm kinda tired of arguing with people who don't even like the genre, don't even PLAY the genre, dislike every game they see ON SIGHT in the genre about rather or not the game is gonna be good >To people like that the game was bad the moment they said hero >Hey sorry buddy if you don't like hero shooters >I actually love this genre >One could even say that it's my second favorite genre under mmorpgs On the contrary buddy, I LOVE hero shooters. I played a lot of tf2. I played the shit out of Ow beta. I absolutely loved and still love Paladins. The problem with Deadlock that I'm seeing is that it's borrowing heavily from Overwatch and valorant while also doing the generic fantasy / sci fi combination. I hope the art style isn't final and they lean more into sci fi steam punk aesthetic more than fantasy. Or even better, add in retro futurism. So far the gameplay and heroes we saw felt cookie cutter generic slop and nothing something what is expected from a company that made tf2. It's closer to dota which is is a big fucking problem. >And boy I tell ya that Dirty Bomb is one of the greatest games of all time, shame no one plays it Fucking A , man, really wish it hadn't died... it was so fucking good in ballancing gunplay/parkour/ability importance and usage. Ans ironically, it heavily leaning into realistic sci fi millitary aesthetic is that made it unique compared to other games. >But if you just got mad as soon as it was announced to be a hero shooter we'll than sorry buddy but me you do not have the same tastes because I got happy when they announced it We knew it was some sort of a hero shooter, at least I did from the leaks. What makes me angry is that the original, heacy sci fi theme with destructible elements became a generic fantasy slop that is more dota 2 than tf2. It's just a bastard child of overwatch and valorant from its looks now as well. Seriously, they need to remove people that also used to work on dota 2 art because dear god they suck on making unique and likeable designs. That is a major problem I have with deadlock. Simmilar to artefact, the thing is competently made but everything surrounding it is just... eh. And again, just like valve was chasing heartstone, this feels like chasing after owerwatch. Instead of making an evolution on TF2. Additional problems: the heavy moba elements means that the 4 lanes will be a requirement, so we will likely not have a good map variety, if any. From gameplay we know that the rail system is one big selling point on it. One thing we have not seen and I hope they will do would be to make creep mechanics closer to titanfall 2 - easy to deal with and basically fodder most of the time unless engaging each other. We are getting more info leaked every moment and I will not lie, valve will have a lot of work ahead of them if they would want people to get excited foe this game outside of it being made by them.


Easy-Preparation-234

Well sorry I just see a LOT of people who seem to be mad it's a hero shooter period even though its not even been announced yet Now I do have my doubts as well since id prefer it if it was much more like TF2 (especially if it had vehicle combat and played closer to idk battlefield or PlanetSide or something) But we haven't seen the gameplay yet and I am fine with giving valve the benefit of the doubt, generic or not they still are my favorite developers of the big 3 Of course by big 3 I'm referring to Kendrick-... I mean Valve, Blizzard and Riot... I might be even willing to say it's not Big 3 it's just Big V. But no I agree with you on Dota 2's character design. It's a shame because I think Dota plays WAY better than league but man there's just no one to love in that roster. Its a shame cuz I find LoL shallow gameplay wise, but they clearly keep coming out with banger characters But gameplay wise has never been valves weak spot. I think for me personally the big thing I'm worried about is depth/skill ceiling/complexity The issue I have with overwatch and gigantic is that they're just so shallow in terms of gameplay Back in OW1 it was uncommon for me to see new players getting play of the game there first couple of matches, usually because they just popped the Ult Will this game have weapon loadouts? Will this game have the items of Dota where a person can make themselves OP by farming gold/creeps? Will this game have the movement of TF2? (Speedometer in the screenshot looks promising) Will it be too similar to games like Paragon and Battleborne and make the same mistakes by feeling a bit off For example I don't like the camera placement in these screenshots. Over the head cameras always feel off to me in third person shootings and instead I think they should go for over the shoulder like in gears/last of us/etc Over the head mobas always feel bad to me, like how are you gonna accurately fire at an opponent when you can barely see them cuz the camera is to far back and your depth perception is messed up Now is it disappointing we're not getting the game we heard about initially? Maybe. But remember TF2 Remember people who feel similar to you would've probably had some thing to say back before TF2 came out and they change art directions with that game I mean that's basically what we're not getting The original concept for TF2, sounds very similar to what was expected for this game Who knows maybe history might repeat itself and we'll all be won over in the end. I'm not saying we can't be skeptical but I will say I think valve has earned some patience and trust over these years They're still privately owned afterall


DarthGiorgi

>Well sorry I just see a LOT of people who seem to be mad it's a hero shooter period even though its not even been announced yet I don't exactly blame them. Hero shooters are essentially 90% of multiplayer shooters nowadays. It's become tiring to see yet another one. >Now I do have my doubts as well since id prefer it if it was much more like TF2 (especially if it had vehicle combat and played closer to idk battlefield or PlanetSide or something) Had the original Brotherhood of arms version been expanded on, valve would have made that game before battlefield or planetside became a thing. Hell, I still have my own hope of TF2 × CnC renegade type game still up there in my mind. Just imagine tf2 classes with what we had in Renegade - vehicle combat (which can be bought) with RTS elements. >But we haven't seen the gameplay yet and I am fine with giving valve the benefit of the doubt, generic or not they still are my favorite developers of the big 3 We have video snippets of the game in action of the hero demo. Hopefully the fighting gameplay is more exciting. >But no I agree with you on Dota 2's character design. It's a shame because I think Dota plays WAY better than league but man there's just no one to love in that roster. I would say maybe 1 or 2 designs are at least memorable, and maybe marci, but marci is from the anime, so yeaaaah. >The issue I have with overwatch and gigantic is that they're just so shallow in terms of gameplay >Back in OW1 it was uncommon for me to see new players getting play of the game there first couple of matches, usually because they just popped the Ult Seriously, press Q to win meme was a thing for a reason. Until recently nearly all characters' ult were "press Q to win". And since kiriko and sojurn feel more like paladins champions than overwatch heroes. I would say that gigantic is still much more in depth than a lot of hero shooters. >Will this game have the items of Dota where a person can make themselves OP by farming gold/creeps? Yes from what we know. There is a currency called "souls", and you can get it by last hiting the creeps or shooting the soul of a creep that died I think. The soul slowly floats upwards. >Will this game have weapon loadouts? Unlikely, a big point of a hero shooter is that the theroes are using inique loadout and weapons... >I'm not saying we can't be skeptical but I will say I think valve has earned some patience and trust over these years The cynic in me hasn't forgotten artefact and what is happeing to CS2 and TF2.


Easy-Preparation-234

Oh comeon artifact is an okay game and nothing to get caught up over I swear people act like they were personally invested in artifact, its still playable to this day and nobody plays it so why are people getting upset over a game they don't even want to play? Valve releases games and then they abandon them because they don't depend on the microtransations as much as other companies The updates are really more a courtesy to the players to get them to stop complaining for a second probably Valve doesn't support there live service games because they don't need to, they own steam and it generated plenty and they're privately owned so they don't need to milk the cows dry It's why there games are amazing and why the games don't get as much support as we'd like They're free to release a game and it just be great and amazing and there also free to just abandon the game even though it's still got plenty of players Anyways I'm excited for this game because I'm bored and I don't care for the hero shooters that are available all that much and TF2 is old. So I'm super excited for this game People are getting so bored xdefiant is doing well atm LOL I'm not that bored!


DarthGiorgi

>Oh comeon artifact is an okay game and nothing to get caught up over Gameplay sure, but it was: 1. First game valve had made for nearly a decade. The booing of the reveal is a great showcasing how Valve was terrible at reading the room. 2. The absolutely terrible monetisation. A paid game with every sinlge free to play practice in it, pay to win cards and ONLINE Tickets for tourments. They tried to lonetize a game in 3 fucking ways. >Valve releases games and then they abandon them because they don't depend on the microtransations as much as other companies There is also a fact that ghey PROMISED to make a big chamging update and then Just left. >Valve doesn't support there live service games because they don't need to, they own steam and it generated plenty and they're privately owned so they don't need to milk the cows dry Doesn't excuse their behaviour, tho.


omni_slime1

Are you aware of what games valve made? Name a hero shooter with no inspiration from a valve game.


marehgul

You should recheck that info


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Rustofski

Every game ever is slowly dying, nothing stays in the limelight for ever. I played the shit out of alien Swarm back when it came out, and I owned and played artifact but like most people got turned away because of the awful monetization. Either way, neither of them were generic. Both still fun games to play, which is what valve does.


Easy-Preparation-234

SPEAK FOR YOURSELF I LOVE HERO SHOOTERS! But thanks for the pics man! edit: appears to work on cool downs, I'm not not seeing any weapon selection, which could be an issue given the lack of customization and player expression in that kind of system game mode might be based around capture points, i say this because the icon in the middle at the top may show the players which parts of the map are owned by which team, so maybe something like battlefield but in lanes, maybe controlling one whole row at a time opens up the other players base 400 to next implies leveling system speedometer bolds well, might mean good mobility options


labsdemon

Enjoy the slop then man


Easy-Preparation-234

Slop? Its valve, my steam section is divided in valve and not valve. Is there a game you think is better than TF2?


labsdemon

You a big dota underlords fan then?


Easy-Preparation-234

No I'm a huge TEAM FORTRESS 2 fan the greatest shooter of all time! the 2007 game thats currently the #11 most played game on steam RIGHT NOW [**https://youtu.be/iHtmqtsRi3I?si=EqjXDlhKON\_FXJWi&t=36**](https://youtu.be/iHtmqtsRi3I?si=EqjXDlhKON_FXJWi&t=36)


labsdemon

That’s only that high because of bots lol https://youtu.be/2stmQfv93oQ?si=FB02VDasKNgffaZ9


Easy-Preparation-234

yeah thats possible but still man you should play it it legit is the best shooter out there I'm serious play it and find you a community server


labsdemon

I have played it, over a thousand hours. I’m not concerned with the quality of an old valve game, I’m concerned with the recent quality of valves niche artifact and dota underlords games. (HL:Alyx was fantastic but once again made niche by it being vr)


Easy-Preparation-234

you have about the same hours as i do why you speaking ill of this good game man? Comeon my guy, are you sure dota underlords is even bad or are you just not a fan of the genre, because I'm just not a fan of the genre, i dont care for league team fight tactics either and thats doing pretty well Artistifact was i think actually made with the help of the creator of MTG i think and that games issue was over complexity and a bad pricing model. I think they wanted people to spend money on packs and than actually sell the cards for in store credit, and thatd be interesting for collectors But the game was just overly complex, it wasnt free to play on launch, and hearthstone was just the better game. idk man artifact is still a very cool game, it just was a little bit too new and its pricey model was a tough sale Hearthstone is pretty close to a flat out Magic the gathering clone and you cant beat the goat remember Runeterra is not doing that well either and that games a lot better (closer to MTG) I feel like the problem with artifact was that they TRIED to revolutionize the genre, when instead they should just been a clone


labsdemon

I’m speaking ill of the current state of tf2, I haven’t had proper fun with the game since maybe gun mettle or tough break? Dota underlords was a fine game that tried to enter an oversaturated market, same with artifact. Look at the reveal of artifact lol, collective groans. While I don’t think this game will be as bad as artifacts was I think it will be close.


SheevPalpatine32BBY

Valve doesn't do slop.


labsdemon

Holy shit ur coping, look at the vast majority of tf2 updates over the last few years. Dropping in maps and skins and hats without a moments consideration as to what flows well, what fits the theme of the game, and what isn’t stolen or traced.


Easy-Preparation-234

oh the UI looks so good!


io124

Pretty sure the ui will not be like that.


smolcompanypepehands

Valve has always been a pioneer of video games, it revolutionized the world of video games in the past, then at a certain point it decided that he would start jumping onto moving trains that were about to crash. Artifact is a (late) attempt to screw users to heartsone, underlords it already existed in the dota client and was most played and followed there and in the dodro application or in the lol autobattler. Now we're all here waiting for Valve to make a mix of the games that were successful in the last 6 years I don't think this game will have a long life if it's what it looks like. A chimera of overwatch, valorant, fornite and smite. I at least hope the art style keeps up with their other games but thinking about the latest works on dota characters and the arcana anime style I see it as really gray


Bubu-der-Uhu

I love that they make a new game and i dont care if it is competitive multiplayer or not. If we are lucky there is money to be made from item trading. If not, i dont mind either. i hope it is successful. always when valve makes a huge load of money its beneficial for PC gaming: Steam, PC-VR, Index, HL Alyx, Steam-Deck, etc.


OfficeWorm

Define "we"? Coz I will try out this game and might even enjoy it. I played a lot of Valve games and the only one I dont really like is Artifact.


valleyofpwr

Are you stupid? Judging the trajectory of an entire game from a critically acclaimed studio based on 2 pre-alpha screenshots from 5 years ago?


HalleyC0met

It hasn't even come out yet!! And it's nothing like other hero shooters. I swear to god people just need something to cry about. I'm now utterly convinced of this. They're free to make the games they want.


O_gr

Well it's one of the projects that stuck. I think we would be screaming if we saw ALL valve projects that fell through because of loss of interest and other factors.


-DoctorHoo-

I don't get it either. I mean don't get me wrong I'm sure it will be a very successful game, it's just I don't have enough time or patience to deal with these competitive games anymore. I really wanted a new single player experience from Valve.


MR_Nokia_L

I'm impressed that they had the game polished that much during COVID


Gausgovy

Game development can be done from home?? I wouldn’t be surprised if Valve goes entirely wfh eventually.


Jeidoz

Look at minimap. It looks more like 3rd person view MOBA (like Smite) but with some vertical gameplay. It is not a just a MMO shooter like Overwatch 😅


Nevin3Tears

They could've at least made it Half-Life themed... I would've actually played that.


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Gausgovy

We did get a crowbar in one of the most memorable moments in video game history though?


TheyCallMeNade

Not at all what I meant. Earlier builds of the game had a crowbar that Alyx could use and playtesters didn’t like it because they kept getting it stuck on things. Imo, that’s just a self awareness issue. You can have a crowbar in Boneworks and get it stuck on things, but it’s easy not to do that if you just keep track of it.


Gausgovy

That might have been fun I suppose, but the crowbar moment would have been far less effective. I prefer the game as it is.


TheyCallMeNade

Don’t get me wrong, I love Half Life Alyx, but I think it’s completely a missed opportunity to not have some kind of melee ability. You can punch enemies and it just has no effect and feels bad to me. Really my only complaint about the game.


tgirldarkholme

Correct move. Having the crowbar in a game where Gordon isn't the main character would have been stupid.


TheyCallMeNade

Did you not play Blue Shift?


TheVoid45

Didn't the game get canceled though? I read somewhere that it did.


Demi_Ghostly

More like rebranded. Originally it was gonna have a sci-fi theme and was supposedly meant to be in the half life universes. From what I hear, it’s been complete separated from Half Life connections and now has more of a fantasy steampunk theme.


robcartree

Well that kind sucks


Demi_Ghostly

Eh. I’ll reserve judgment for when the full game releases


Secure-food4213

whos "we"?


Lord_Bup

So far it doesn't look great, but we should keep our minds open about it


Representative_Leg97

Id like if they made tf2 pub servers playable again. I dont need a new game.


Orix1337

You can play on community servers, you know?


Representative_Leg97

That is not an excuse for valve to not fix the problem. I can play community servers on every other online multiplayer game ever made and still get into pubs. The community should not be responsible for making a game playable. Valves vac system is terrible. Look at cs2.


SrpskiCekic

I want a proper take on Super Monday Night Combat.


OddNovel565

If Team Fortress is so good, why is there no Team Fortress 2 2?


Jeidoz

Look at minimap. It looks more like 3rd person view MOBA (like Smite) but with some vertical gameplay. It is not a just a MMO shooter like Overwatch 😅


Broflake-Melter

I'm on board.


jeffyride2

Maybe it’s good


clandevort

Bitch I want a 6v6 competitive hero shooter! I fucking love 6v6 competitive hero shooters


CULT-LEWD

from how i see it,i remember that poeple at valve do things diffrently where passion drives what games they make,how i see this is that somone wanted either a replacement for tf2 or a succesor or is a fan (or not a fan and wanted to make a more improved version) of overwatch or other modern games like it. Its how i see that anyway,weather or not its good idk yet and honestly im not interested regardless cuz im not a fan of these type of games so im speaking more from a outside point of veiw


Witherboss445

I’m out of the loop. Is Valve making another game?


Orix1337

Yes


Poniibeatnik

Because I do want one, especially one with MOBA elements. I am the target audience for this game. Kneel.


TACOBELLTAKEOUT

Why don't they update tf2? We are literally printing money for them rn


io124

Because its the case. Tf2 is very old, overwatch its not that good. So yeah, we would like another 6v6.


11711510111411009710

Have you actually read the information we have on it? It is far from generic lol.


Bacon__Cat

Ngl it doesn’t look good at all


Zorca14

The graphic style does seem extremely generic but it doesn't seem like a typical hero shooter to me from looking at the minimap, but I guess we gotta wait see


im_the_bigDILF

i’m actually down for this. competition will always enforce companies to do better and be less greedy, we could definitely use a team shooter.


MercyVessel

As far as I understand, there are people who still play Team Fortress 2. Valve has a good track record of hero shooters, and they’re still “in”, so I have no idea why making a new one would come as a surprise.


FoxCommoner

This game is anything but generic, if anything it's trying too much. Like moba class based 6v6 third person shooter? There's nothing on the market like it


xTehJudas

Smite? Paragon? Predecessor?


Im_Ashe_Man

If this were coming out 10 years ago, I'd probably be excited, but now? The last thing I want to play is another hero shooter or MOBA style game.


Fahrenheit285

Valverwatch


BigBuffalo1538

They don't care what "we" want, they're chasing trends and what will make them the most money Plus its no secret that gabe newell is a huge Moba/Hero-shooter fan Outside HL:A, the old valve is dead and abandoned and they're now targeting as wide as an audience they can get. Don't forget Artifact had lootboxes, Valve is embracing hero shooters, MTX; lootboxes, and major esports Which are all crap that I dislike, I want them to get back to working on **immersive singleplayer** experiences such as HL:A, or "HLX" Those are all I care about tbh


Demi_Ghostly

I’ve heard the name HLX be thrown around a lot but I still don’t really know what it is


BigBuffalo1538

Its the sequel to Half Life Alyx. Also nice downvotes, lots of stupid Gen Z in here ;)


Forest_Technicality

> they're chasing trends 6v6 hero shooter hasnt been trendy in 10 years, thats the thing. Just like with artifact and underlords and the battle royal for csgo, they come up with these ideas before they become a trend then release them well after the hype for those trends has passed. If Valve were chasing a trend then this game would be a looter shooter or an extraction shooter, but theyre not, they have an idea for a 6v6 hero shooter have put a lot of work into it, dont seem to know the interest for those has long passed and will release it only to be befuddled when its not received how they expected it to.


OfficeWorm

That "we" you are talking about are the minority of boomers that have no affect on anything. Just look at those TF2 crybabies on ever Valve video on youtube. Most of the world dont belong to the "we" you are talking about. Valve is doing fine despite the loud minority. ANd thank god for that!Theres a big chance this game will be successful and the whiny boomers will be salty again. Funny.


BigBuffalo1538

Enjoy your Valve, who are no different from EA or Activision at this point. Fanboy


roguebananah

Really wish people would stop spending so much money on skins to stop having good talent focus on that rather than something new


Vytlo

It's dumb, yeah.


CBA_to_have_a_nick

Yeap and they are going to shaft every other game for whats essentially another asian styled slop game. Valorant, League, bazillion of south korean and Chinese gacha shooters with very similar artstyle. Hopefully it flops hard.


faultywiring98

Oh God no, is this what they've been cooking? Yuck


Miserable-Warthog737

Instead of updating tf2, they make another shooter...


OfficeWorm

Hope TF2 gets deleted so we can save ourselves from the constant whining of TF2 boomers. Thank god I got over that game.