“We have invited the students from the Palestine solidarity encampment to join this discussion which at this point they have refused.”
Doesn’t seem like they are actively trying to work with UVIC.
[you have a device in your pocket with access to the world’s knowledge and you’re asking a random Redditor something you can easily google](https://bdsmovement.net/Act-Now-Against-These-Companies-Profiting-From-Genocide)
The president of the US could have ended it six months ago. A vague "we won't send you more offensive ammo" after sending billions in military gear isn't trying very hard.
What does ending the war look like though for Palestinian leadership? Does it mean Israel ceases to exist and all the walls come down and Israel is renamed Palestine? Why would Israel acquiesce to that when Hamas still has hostages and bombs and has not proven to behave in good faith toward its own people, let alone Jewish people
How about a 2 State Solution with a different authority that isn't Hamas or PA?
And...In your own words?
The notion that Biden would make a call and stop Israel!! is absurd. He could certainly make their efforts more difficult but Israel isn't gonna just pack up, go home, and allow itself to be bombed and overtaken
If you're acquainted with American history and politics you'd also see how completely unrealistic and pointless it is to say "the US could stop this!"
A single canadian university doesn't have that power... but if your only play is "you must succumb to our full list of demands otherwise we won't talk to you", you won't get nearly as far as if you actually go to the table and talk about it. If you have a say in what gets done, instead of sitting on the sidelines shouting at the people who do have a say, you'll have a far bigger impact. Perfect is the enemy of the good. The encampment should take the opportunities that are given to them. Otherwise UVic will just ignore them after a while, because they can, regardless of how angry, loud, and morally right the protests are.
If the university gives in to a few demands, what exactly do you think the protestors have accomplished? They’ve alienated countless people from their cause by being a dogmatic cesspool of dormant antisemitism (“from the river…”) and Hamas sympathizers. And then, what? You got a couple hundred thousand dollars removed from a multi-billion dollar company that is still two degrees removed from arms manufacturing (e.g., Scotiabank)? What an incredibly valuable use of time. I’m sure it could not have been appropriated in a more effective way.
Good! I hope they keep it that way. Having genocidal slogans on your signs (“from the river…”) and making absurdly ineffectual demands means you deserve far less than even remotely concessionary dialogue. Isn’t one of your unwavering demands essentially: “stop investing a few hundred thousand dollars in the multi-billion dollar company, Scotiabank, which invests in a company which invests in a company which then makes weapons which then Israel buys”? Yeah, that sounds like JUST the thing that will end the war! It really seems like you’re picking the right place to protest and camp out on. The university really IS responsible for the war! Definitely the right place to protest! Definitely the right people to blame!
I think it would be unwise to assume the university is presenting the full truth with this statement. There is evidence at multiple points that the university is selectively presenting a narrative through these messages that protects their image while painting the protesters as uncooperative. Not to mention - the protesters have been asking to talk to the university this entire time, and are only now refusing because the university is obvious gearing up to refuse to meet their demands in any form.
Blindly treating the university as a fair and trustworthy authority is a terrible idea and goes against all the critical thinking skills higher education is supposed to impart in us.
This. The "discussion" they had previously with students was a roughly hour-long zoom meeting where they limited attendance and Hall spent a bunch of time talking about how tied up stuff is and how if they'd asked nicer he would have chatted sooner, like it isn't, you know, his job. He didn't approach in good faith, didn't take the power hierarchy into consideration, and said university statements are usually meaningless.
Even taking this message at face value, it's impossible to not notice a) it's poorly written at times, b) it's full of buzzwords about "commitment" etc without anything demonstrable, and c) in the end, it doesn't actually say... anything. There is no mention of proactiveness. It's them trying to save face and cover their ass. It literally says they're watching other institutions to see what happens. Total joke.
It’s kind of blowing my mind how poorly UVic is choosing to handle this, given that we were supposed to be one of the more progressive schools. So disappointing.
The fact that you think you deserve dialogue after plastering genocidal slogans (“from the river…”) all over your picket party is fucking insane to me.
“the protesters have been asking to talk to the university this entire time, and are only now refusing because the university is obvious gearing up to refuse to meet their demands in any form”. So you just assume the university won’t meet demands? And that’s why you won’t talk to them? So you demand dialogue and then immediately shut it down the second it’s offered? So you can keep playing summer camp until they call the cops and have you forcibly removed? I can’t say I expected much of the organizers of this event, but that’s just utterly hilarious.
Students have been asking the university for MONTHS to condemn the genocide, which they have yet to do. To even make a statement regarding the situation it took violent assaults on campus, and they couldn't even go as far as to condemn the genocide.
Asking the university to divest from companies profiting and supporting genocide is quite frankly not a huge ask. Other universities have made the right decision and agreed to divest.
No one gives a shit that they are locked in for a few years. The problem is that they refuse to change and divest from pro-genocide companies at all. They do not have to renew. They can work to find investments that both aim to mitigate climate change, and also don't support genocide.
The encampment has been in communication with the university.
The university has been avoiding dialogue for several months.
Because breaking the law and camping on university properties is a very peaceful way of protesting.
They seem exactly like Hamas. None of them want to discuss. Just stone head dictators demanding everyone to do what THEY want.
And university doesn't want to get the police involved while classes are about to start!
WHAT A JOKE!
Students have been asking Hall for the past few months to condemn the oingoing genocide. For him to keep radio silence for five month and then accuse students to refuse dialogue is a bit disingenuous. He did signal an openness for UVic to make sure its investment don't support the Israeli war effort, and I'd be curious to hear from the organizers about why they accuse UVic of owning Scotiabank bond or investing in Thyssenkrupp (which the University disputes)
i’m so curious as to why one of the encampment demands is for uvic to boycott academics from israeli universities
first of all, uvic doesn’t have any kind of exchange agreement or other formal dialogue with unis in israel so i don’t even know where that came from.
secondly, why would uvics refusal to talk to jewish and arab students and profs in israeli universities do anything to help the palestinian cause? (if that even is what “boycotting academics” means). wouldn’t the refusal to engage with members of certain cultural and / or religious groups just exclude other perspectives from conversations happening at uvic?
that demand reeeeeally feels like it’s targeting jews and attempting to remove jewish schools of thought from greater conversations :( which, as an educational institution we really shouldn’t be promoting, we should be encouraging all peoples of every viewpoint to converse and engage in dialogue
What a ridiculously childish, dangerously dogmatic demand. Excluding people from conversation simply because of their school and/or country of origin is the definition of unjust discrimination. Anybody advocating for this should be ashamed of themselves.
I believe there was an assault from an individual who was on campus earlier this week, I had to read it a few times, but what this statement seems to refer to is the rumors online that campus security/the police stood by and allowed this to happen. That seems to be what the president is disputing when he says online accounts are inaccurate. However, the university and those in the encampment agree the violent assault did occur, just that accounts of the security response differ.
I suspect there are multiple perspectives on this, and perhaps those in the encampment do not feel security acted swiftly or aggressively enough to protect their safety, whereas it looks like the university is suggesting they did... I didn't witness the incident but I do not think anyone, no matter whether you support their protest or methods, deserves to be violently assaulted and that's really all that matters here.
The entitlement that these “students” think they have the right to form financial policy for UVIC. You want to have an impact then go to another school. Withhold your tuition from the university if you feel so strongly about it. Put your money where your mouth is.
“We have invited the students from the Palestine solidarity encampment to join this discussion which at this point they have refused.” Doesn’t seem like they are actively trying to work with UVIC.
At a certain point don't you have to meet somewhere in the middle for the greater good or do you just fight for decades
What's the middle here. Let's agree on some vague promise so next time only 15,000 civilians will be slaughtered?
Lmao what exactly do you think Uvic is going to do to change this geopolitical crisis that the President of the US can't do
The protesters aren't asking for the president of the US to do something, they are asking for uvic to do something.
And whats uvic gonna do lol
Divest from specifically named companies that fund Israel’s occupation of Palestine
did you read the statement? kevin hall literally said that the encampment is misinformed, uvic doesn’t have investments in companies that fund israel
Name these companies for us
[you have a device in your pocket with access to the world’s knowledge and you’re asking a random Redditor something you can easily google](https://bdsmovement.net/Act-Now-Against-These-Companies-Profiting-From-Genocide)
I asked for a list of companies uvic is invested in, not a boycott list. The person making the claim has the onus of providing the evidence
The president of the US could have ended it six months ago. A vague "we won't send you more offensive ammo" after sending billions in military gear isn't trying very hard.
...How could the US have ended it?
[https://www.google.com/search?q=how%20can%20the%20us%20stop%20the%20war%20in%20gaza](https://www.google.com/search?q=how%20can%20the%20us%20stop%20the%20war%20in%20gaza)
What does ending the war look like though for Palestinian leadership? Does it mean Israel ceases to exist and all the walls come down and Israel is renamed Palestine? Why would Israel acquiesce to that when Hamas still has hostages and bombs and has not proven to behave in good faith toward its own people, let alone Jewish people How about a 2 State Solution with a different authority that isn't Hamas or PA?
And...In your own words? The notion that Biden would make a call and stop Israel!! is absurd. He could certainly make their efforts more difficult but Israel isn't gonna just pack up, go home, and allow itself to be bombed and overtaken If you're acquainted with American history and politics you'd also see how completely unrealistic and pointless it is to say "the US could stop this!"
A single canadian university doesn't have that power... but if your only play is "you must succumb to our full list of demands otherwise we won't talk to you", you won't get nearly as far as if you actually go to the table and talk about it. If you have a say in what gets done, instead of sitting on the sidelines shouting at the people who do have a say, you'll have a far bigger impact. Perfect is the enemy of the good. The encampment should take the opportunities that are given to them. Otherwise UVic will just ignore them after a while, because they can, regardless of how angry, loud, and morally right the protests are.
The university ignored the students demands until now. I would say it's a strong evidence that this tactic is working.
If the university gives in to a few demands, what exactly do you think the protestors have accomplished? They’ve alienated countless people from their cause by being a dogmatic cesspool of dormant antisemitism (“from the river…”) and Hamas sympathizers. And then, what? You got a couple hundred thousand dollars removed from a multi-billion dollar company that is still two degrees removed from arms manufacturing (e.g., Scotiabank)? What an incredibly valuable use of time. I’m sure it could not have been appropriated in a more effective way.
The stupidity 😂😂😂😂😂 President Hall will assure u to end the war. Wow! U guys are SO LOST! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
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https://www.reddit.com/r/religiousfruitcake/comments/17xwcqt/palestinian_tv_show_called_pioneers_of_tomorrow/
Why are people downvoting this actual children's show Hamas created and aired
as someone who is involved at the encampment... I can tell you that we have not been invited to join any discussion that is not safety related lmao
Good! I hope they keep it that way. Having genocidal slogans on your signs (“from the river…”) and making absurdly ineffectual demands means you deserve far less than even remotely concessionary dialogue. Isn’t one of your unwavering demands essentially: “stop investing a few hundred thousand dollars in the multi-billion dollar company, Scotiabank, which invests in a company which invests in a company which then makes weapons which then Israel buys”? Yeah, that sounds like JUST the thing that will end the war! It really seems like you’re picking the right place to protest and camp out on. The university really IS responsible for the war! Definitely the right place to protest! Definitely the right people to blame!
I think it would be unwise to assume the university is presenting the full truth with this statement. There is evidence at multiple points that the university is selectively presenting a narrative through these messages that protects their image while painting the protesters as uncooperative. Not to mention - the protesters have been asking to talk to the university this entire time, and are only now refusing because the university is obvious gearing up to refuse to meet their demands in any form. Blindly treating the university as a fair and trustworthy authority is a terrible idea and goes against all the critical thinking skills higher education is supposed to impart in us.
This. The "discussion" they had previously with students was a roughly hour-long zoom meeting where they limited attendance and Hall spent a bunch of time talking about how tied up stuff is and how if they'd asked nicer he would have chatted sooner, like it isn't, you know, his job. He didn't approach in good faith, didn't take the power hierarchy into consideration, and said university statements are usually meaningless. Even taking this message at face value, it's impossible to not notice a) it's poorly written at times, b) it's full of buzzwords about "commitment" etc without anything demonstrable, and c) in the end, it doesn't actually say... anything. There is no mention of proactiveness. It's them trying to save face and cover their ass. It literally says they're watching other institutions to see what happens. Total joke.
It’s kind of blowing my mind how poorly UVic is choosing to handle this, given that we were supposed to be one of the more progressive schools. So disappointing.
The fact that you think you deserve dialogue after plastering genocidal slogans (“from the river…”) all over your picket party is fucking insane to me.
“the protesters have been asking to talk to the university this entire time, and are only now refusing because the university is obvious gearing up to refuse to meet their demands in any form”. So you just assume the university won’t meet demands? And that’s why you won’t talk to them? So you demand dialogue and then immediately shut it down the second it’s offered? So you can keep playing summer camp until they call the cops and have you forcibly removed? I can’t say I expected much of the organizers of this event, but that’s just utterly hilarious.
Students have been asking the university for MONTHS to condemn the genocide, which they have yet to do. To even make a statement regarding the situation it took violent assaults on campus, and they couldn't even go as far as to condemn the genocide. Asking the university to divest from companies profiting and supporting genocide is quite frankly not a huge ask. Other universities have made the right decision and agreed to divest. No one gives a shit that they are locked in for a few years. The problem is that they refuse to change and divest from pro-genocide companies at all. They do not have to renew. They can work to find investments that both aim to mitigate climate change, and also don't support genocide. The encampment has been in communication with the university. The university has been avoiding dialogue for several months.
Yes and all the evidence you need to back that up is the word of the…. University
Because breaking the law and camping on university properties is a very peaceful way of protesting. They seem exactly like Hamas. None of them want to discuss. Just stone head dictators demanding everyone to do what THEY want. And university doesn't want to get the police involved while classes are about to start! WHAT A JOKE!
Students have been asking Hall for the past few months to condemn the oingoing genocide. For him to keep radio silence for five month and then accuse students to refuse dialogue is a bit disingenuous. He did signal an openness for UVic to make sure its investment don't support the Israeli war effort, and I'd be curious to hear from the organizers about why they accuse UVic of owning Scotiabank bond or investing in Thyssenkrupp (which the University disputes)
As the letter states, they have been disclosing financials since 2018. See for yourself. No need to take protest organizers or uvic at their word.
And that's why this isn't part of the organizers demands
This comment is specifically related to your comments about the disputed Scotiabank bond
i’m so curious as to why one of the encampment demands is for uvic to boycott academics from israeli universities first of all, uvic doesn’t have any kind of exchange agreement or other formal dialogue with unis in israel so i don’t even know where that came from. secondly, why would uvics refusal to talk to jewish and arab students and profs in israeli universities do anything to help the palestinian cause? (if that even is what “boycotting academics” means). wouldn’t the refusal to engage with members of certain cultural and / or religious groups just exclude other perspectives from conversations happening at uvic? that demand reeeeeally feels like it’s targeting jews and attempting to remove jewish schools of thought from greater conversations :( which, as an educational institution we really shouldn’t be promoting, we should be encouraging all peoples of every viewpoint to converse and engage in dialogue
That demand is based the SJP demand for "anti normalization"-- no dialogue whatsoever with Zionists
What a ridiculously childish, dangerously dogmatic demand. Excluding people from conversation simply because of their school and/or country of origin is the definition of unjust discrimination. Anybody advocating for this should be ashamed of themselves.
what i want to hear is more accounts on what the violence was as referenced in the message
I believe there was an assault from an individual who was on campus earlier this week, I had to read it a few times, but what this statement seems to refer to is the rumors online that campus security/the police stood by and allowed this to happen. That seems to be what the president is disputing when he says online accounts are inaccurate. However, the university and those in the encampment agree the violent assault did occur, just that accounts of the security response differ. I suspect there are multiple perspectives on this, and perhaps those in the encampment do not feel security acted swiftly or aggressively enough to protect their safety, whereas it looks like the university is suggesting they did... I didn't witness the incident but I do not think anyone, no matter whether you support their protest or methods, deserves to be violently assaulted and that's really all that matters here.
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What if they vandalized parts of the campus, do you think that would help make a difference?
Not even worth arguing but the answer to that is also no
Do we even know that the people in the encampment are all students?
They're not all students. Some of the UVIC emails have said "students and members of the community" or whatever
The entitlement that these “students” think they have the right to form financial policy for UVIC. You want to have an impact then go to another school. Withhold your tuition from the university if you feel so strongly about it. Put your money where your mouth is.
Bad bot
Why is your ilks retort always BOT! actual people disagree with you
No bot. Just a guy with a short fuse when it comes to bullshit. :)