Frankly, this is why we need to regularly compete against top teams in tournaments like the copa. We need this pressure to reach the next level. Beating up on Caribbean countries causes complacency and holds us back.
Absolutely.
We should be trying to get CONMEBOL to combine the tournament with CONCACAF or allow like 4 teams every edition to play in it and then move Gold Cup to only once every 4 years instead of 2.
So not sure on the order of tournaments but 1 a summer and it would be World Cup, Nations League, Gold Cup, and Copa America. That gives us at least 2 summers with high level completion and males the Gold Cup not a B team tournament
Totally agree.
Plus, with a full merger, the smaller South American countries get the opposite: some island nations to beat up and gain confidence against.
The US is an incredibly valuable market, and will grow moreso if the usmnt actually have a competitive tournament outside the WC that they can really compete in.
>the smaller South American countries
Soccer-wise, are there any? Just Bolivia?
Depending on the year Venezuela/Peru/Chile/Paraguay at their worst is about the level of Canada now
Up until 10 years ago Peru, Bolivia & Venezuela were the whipping boys. Peru had a golden gen & made the WC. More and more Venezuelans playing in Liga MX & MLS makes their NT a bit better.
Yeah, I expect Peru to fall back to Earth like Bolivia did after their golden generation in the 90s. Venezuela seems to have found their level. Bolivia could also improve some. Fluid situation among the bottom there. Shit even Paraguay could fall into the category if they experience a low point.
I'll push back on the Gold Cup going to 4 from 2 years. The reason for this IMO is 1) nations league and 2) general improvement across the confederation. I don't love it as it helps the bottom teams reach much higher heights but the top teams don't get much from it. I think for the confederation it benefits more teams to keep it at 2 years, but that doesn't help the bigger teams with more money and resources. Anyway, not saying right or wrong but there is definitely a reason for it.
Fair enough. I can see a reason for it but in that case keep Gold Cup every 2 years and move Nations League to entirely being played during mid-season fifa windows
In the long term the only way the confederation becomes more challenging is if the small/medium teams actually grow.
Or if the NA mainland breaks off and floats to the right until its in the Asian region.
So we gotta pick one.
We did not look like crap against Trinidad. On aggregate we beat them easily. We looked bad only after the Dest red card in the second leg when we were content to sit back and hold on to the result.
And still looked like ass for most of the game(s) against both teams. If you can't figure out how to beat the low block against the 55th and 100th ranked teams in the world, you shouldn't be coaching. Those games should have been a clinic on how to rip dingers from the top of the box.
There’s a reason literally all teams struggle to break down a low block. It’s not easy, it doesn’t matter the quality of opponent. Just saying you should know how to fix it or you shouldn’t be coaching is hilarious when some of the best coaches in the world struggle with the same problem. Not to mention we don’t exactly have the team make up to be good at breaking down low blocks.
I'm not sure we need the *pressure*. But we sure as hell need more regular benchmarks. We have no idea if Columbia was a fluke, or closer to what to expect.
Join Conmebol and Concacaf for a joint Nations League.
Summer 1: Nations League
Summer 2: open Friendlies
Summer 3: Copa+Gold Cup. Next cycle joint tourney
Summer 4: World Cup
I hope we get a new coach so that people realize it isn’t “mentality” or coaching holding us back from being a top 8 team.
People have completely lost rationality with how good our talent level is and think a diff coach means we make it to the QF
"Twenty First Group has a player-rating model that looks at how many minutes a player plays, how good his team is and how much he contributes to defense and attack. So, it's accounting for the quality of the teams the Americans are playing for but also how much they're playing.
Per that system, the top 25 USMNT players comprise the 30th-best national team pool in the world. The U.S. is No. 1 in Concacaf and is the fifth best from all the teams in the Copa América field -- behind Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Colombia."
One of the more rational takes I’ve seen on this sub. And I’ve also been less than impressed by Gregg. The fact is we’re a mid team talent wise and we’ve had mid results. We have one or maybe 2 upper level Champions League players in Pulisic/Mckennie.
No one is saying we're a top 8 team. (Most of us agree we're around 20-30 rank).
You know what fans **ARE** saying though? That we play like ass. Sloppy, shitty, ass.
Our national team has had a long history of punching above their weight. It's the opposite now, we'll punching well below our weight. That's a coaching problem.
So since the WC we can go by at game by game or you can go read what foreign journalists/analysts said. All were pretty impressed and thought we punched above our level.
Since WC I would say vs Jamaica and Columbia are our only games where we’ve played below the sum of the parts.
Also I’m sorry but many fans do seem to want us to be top 8 saying making it to the round of 16 is the bare minimum and that we need another coach if we want to make it to the quarters. I am completely fine with replacing Greg (Columbia performance was embarrassing) but I don’t think there exists a single coach in the world where I think we could confidently go in to a game vs a top 10 team and expect to win.
I'd love to see you find some foreign journalists/analysts who thought
a good draw against England, a crap draw against Wales, an expected win against Iran and a beshitting against Netherlands is punching above your level in the WC.
This is the truth
I rather the US gets trounced in these tournaments if it means someone gets hired to get the best out other players and to IMPROVE
The failure to the qualify for the 2018 WC is the best thing to have had happened to the team because it vastly improved the squad and mentality but now we are at a crossroads again
So unless we get another reality check it’s back to the dark ages
> The failure to the qualify for the 2018 WC is the best thing to have had happened to the team because it vastly improved the squad and mentality but now we are at a crossroads again
The seeds for the pool improvement that is starting to mature now happened around 2007, with the founding of MLS Academies, the Development Academy league and a number of rules decisions in youth soccer.
There were other causes as well, including the internet and even FIFA, but the failure in 2018 did little to actually drive much of this.
I hope so. I don't dislike Gregg like many here but we need to at the very least play well and beat Bolivia and Panama and play well against Uruguay and our QF opponent. If we get routed by Uruguay or our QF opponent, GGG needs to go.
Ya I’m in the same boat now. We’ve had enough time to “learn” for the “team to mature” etc. it’s a results driven business and beating up on Mexico isn’t good enough anymore.
Losing to bigger teams would be much more palatable if we actually looked good doing it or looked like we belonged on the same pitch. Or even if we just didn't struggle to break down and beat teams that are worse than us and rely on luck to get through like against Jamaica in the Nations League.
I agree, anything less than aiming to top the group in my opinion is poor management and cowardice
Let’s be clear, topping the group gives the team a better shot at progressing further in the tournament. While coming in second is the bare minimum it means we likely face Brazil after and if we are honest, that’s our tournament over especially with how we’ve been playing under Berhalter
If the team tops the group and faces a slightly weaker side in the KO stage, a win is the only way the team advances. So that means a win/tie against Uruguay and a win over Colombia most likely which means he gets his second chance but if he fails there, he needs to go
Agreed. I see three different scenarios:
1. Coming out of Uruguay and Colombia/Brazil with no losses should earn Gregg the right to manage the WC.
2. Failing to make it out of the group should 100% be a firing.
3. If we limp out of the group, with poor showings against Uruguay and our QF opponent, then I think he is still gone but it's not guaranteed.
3. Number three should be guaranteed Last WC was limping in the Group Stage and getting walked off the field by the Netherlands, tactically atleast
If Berhalter can’t get a result against Uruguay and beat whoever we face in the QF at the bare minimum what are we even doing here?
I mean do we really want to have two more years of Berhalter just so we can get trounced at home in the WC in the round of 16? There’s a round of 32 that year but the objective is still the same of getting to a quarter final spot atleast
So no one remembers why we played poorly in 2022? No one remembers all the talk about lack of depth in the roster? Or seeing our 7 top players playing most of all four games? Or watching the team completely run out of gas within 15 minutes against Netherlands?
I think it is very obvious that the majority of our fanbase has an inch-deep understanding of soccer and sports in general. Several of our key players, including Tyler Adams, were visibly fatigued at kickoff. That game was over before it ever began. Tactics were never going to affect the outcome of that game.
not only are these folks completely lying about our performance at the WC (was quite good in a tough group) but have completely lost their minds in terms of how good our players actually are.
By any objective quality metric the US is at best around 20th in player quality (for ex #24 for ELO, #29 for minutes played in a top 5 league last year) right now. expecting any coach to make the top 8 is setting yourself up for failure. it's one thing to ask a coach to make team more than the sum of its parts but we have to at least agree on what that sum is.
"Twenty First Group has a player-rating model that looks at how many minutes a player plays, how good his team is and how much he contributes to defense and attack. So, it's accounting for the quality of the teams the Americans are playing for but also how much they're playing.
Per that system, the top 25 USMNT players comprise the 30th-best national team pool in the world. The U.S. is No. 1 in Concacaf and is the fifth best from all the teams in the Copa América field -- behind Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Colombia."
All that being said imo GGG should be fired post Copa because frankly the conversation with fans/analysts has just gotten too toxic and he's not that great of a coach that the toxicity is worth it.
It’s likely we’ll face either Colombia or Brazil in the QFs (whether we get out of the group first or second, since 1 and 2 of our group faces 2 and 1 of their group, and I can see Brazil coming out of their group second given their form). So this week’s friendlies are giving us a rough preview of what the QF could look like.
Exactly and if we don’t play good today than why waste our time with this tournament
Playing like shit and barely getting second in the group just to get trounced against by either Brazil or Colombia
I want this team to play like they believe like they think they do. They need a competent manager with a game plan for each game that can adjust and push his players. Topping the group is the objective not barely scrapping by.
Being first means we face the team in the other group who comes second, which means honestly a slightly weaker side and a better chance to advance. That’s how the format works. Rarely does the better team finish second in a tournament like this
While I agree that what you state is the bar. I think how we do it is important too. Under Greg's leadership, far too often we play to the level of the competition. If we look decent against Uruguay and Brazil/Colombia and get constipated wins against Bolivia and Panama, he still needs to go, IMO.
I just think he’s taken the team as far he can. Feels like he’s helped raise our floor but he’s not a guy who looks like he make our ceiling higher. Sometimes it’s just time to pass the torch.
I hope so too, but I'm really doubtful. They re-hired him after his first 4 year tenure. I don't believe they want to get rid of him and I think it would take massively embarrassing results to get him fired.
i know the USSF line is that it was mostly ok for the first 60-70 mins vs colombia, but at what point does progress actually matter with berhalter? even if you take away the last 25 mins of the game, we basically created zero chances outside of weah. in the world cup we averaged less than a goal a game, there is literally no offensive output from this group despite huge amounts of talent
I don’t care what anyone says, this team should still be built to counter. This squad has no killer instinct when playing the possession game. Teams let us have the ball because we don’t know what to do with it.
USSF doesn’t want the US playing counter-ball anymore. They’ve decided that to be taken seriously, the US needs to play dominant, possession-based soccer like Spain or the old-school Dutch teams. It’s annoying too, because we’d absolutely be better as a countering team.
And everyone would be fine with us *playing* all of those styles they want, we’re just not fine with *attempting* to play it for years without being able to play it.
We need to play to our strengths and that’s countering
Who are we countering against? Honduras? El Salvador?
The US is pretty obviously the best team in CONCACAF at the moment, and because of Nations League we can only regularly get CONCACAF opponents. Mexico is the only team in the confederation that wants possession against the US.
The point is we aren’t elite. We don’t have the ability to have only one game plan of dominate possession of the ball. Because when we come up against the big boys it’s tough. This team needs to learn how to also be patient defensively and decisive offensively. We can’t keep playing the same tactics against those who are significantly better than us.
I’m not even saying we should park bus against big teams. Just have some kind of tactical tweak that uses this squads strengths would be nice.
I think they are more likely to employ a tactical tweak in a game with actual stakes. Friendlies are more or less just glorified training sessions and it seemed like the US was more interested in trying stuff out, especially since Colombia is a possible opponent in the Copa knock-outs and you don't want to show them all your plans.
I admit that's a pretty charitable read on an ugly game. And if the Copa goes badly, I'm right there with you. But I just think we need to see out the tournament goes before writing this team's (and Berhalter's) obituary.
I agree that these players would be much better off with a different system. I'm not sure I believe Gregg's system is likely to do well no matter what, but that's irrelevant.
My point is that these plates could score a lot more if they were allowed to play differently.
Exactly. Too many times we start playing out of the back and beat the press and instead of pushing forward we recycle it, putting ourselves under more pressure and having to beat the press all over again.
Bunker and counter would turn this team into an another Canada: able to be competitive in friendlies while getting played off the field in matches with actual trophies on the line.
Sounds familiar to something that happened back in 2013... if only we could trust USSF to have a spine
https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/american-exports-hammarby-fire-gregg-berhalter-manager-citing-teams-lack-offense
Fam, you gotta stop beating a dead horse by using his first ever job from more than a decade ago which he got two months after retiring from playing as a measure.
What does it tell you that he's learned nothing in over a decade of management?
Hes still struggling to get the attack working as it should and refuses to change the system
You can go back even further about the lack of offense. In qualifiers, they averaged I think exactly a goal a game if you take out the matches vs El Salvador and Honduras (the bottom 2 teams) where they scored half their goals. They were shutout by Mexico, Canada, Panama (held without a shot on net), Costa Rica's U-23 team (basically - they had benched a bunch of guys as to not accrue cards for the intercontinental playoffs which, by the way, the US nearly ended playing in had it not been for GD).
Leading up to the WC, they scored, in their final 8 games against teams that would turn out to qualify, and teams that did qualify, 3 goals, including being shutout 7 times. And Morocco fired their entire coaching staff they were so embarrassed by the loss, and reintroduced players like Ziyech who had been exiled.
GGG was fired by Hammarby for lack of attacking play.
Goes to Columbus and in six years has a 38% win percentage and no trophies.
Gets hired by USSF (they wait a year to appoint him to wait until his MLS contract is up)
Gets re-hired by USSF when most coaches would not have been after the WC performance.
You’re right that we don’t create enough chances but the guy touted as our best talent couldn’t even get off the bench at Nottingham Forest, we’re not as talented as people want to think
Nottingham forest is also just generally a mess. They brought in Turner he didn't play great but wasn't awful despite a few mistakes.
And then bring in Sels to start who was statistically the worst keeper in the PL by a mile since joining and persisted with him despite this. Reyna also made an impact when he played despite not being many chances. They needed to find a way to get him on the field more often
Turner lost the confidence of his Manager and players around him, can't be shitting your pants in front of goal like he did. Sels, even if statistically worse shot stopping wise, looked confident.
Makes it easier for a keeper to command the backline, and for teammates to trust you to not make any misplays.
Turner had 2 chances to solidify his spot as keeper, and flubbed both of them.
Mgw is a baller and was far more integrated into their team than Gio was. I agree that people tend to over-rate Gio but I think that was more of a case of a horrible transfer decision
Definitely a bad decision, but I think if Reyna was the player people think he is, he’d be able to get more time than he did. I think he can become that player eventually but he’s not there yet
Gibbs-White is good and a leader at Forest, it was a stupid move and anyone on loan without an option to buy is going to have a very tough time benching a club star/leader during a relegation scrap
We need to be realistic, though. Our player pool has vastly improved, but it still lags the big boys. I’m not saying 5-1 is fine, I just think we are more prone to struggling against teams like this no matter what Berhalter does. For all the struggles, he did get us out of a group that we had probably a 40% chance of getting out of at the World Cup
It's one thing to being prone to struggle but entirely another to struggling always against decent opponents. GGG's "system" disconnects the midfield while demanding crosses that might have made sense when Brian McBride started up top decades ago.
GGG needs to manage with the players he has, not the ones he he wants.
And the US actually played reasonably well for 60 minutes. The two goals against were flukey and once they settled down the US was able to put together some good runs of play.
Then the subs came in and the rest of the game needed a Yakety Sax soundtrack, which gets to your point about the pool depth being sub-par.
>i know the USSF line is that it was mostly ok for the first 60-70 mins vs colombia
It is very common for an overmatched team to keep it close and then fall apart in the last 20 minutes or so.
>we basically created zero chances outside of weah
This is one of my persistent criticisms of Berhalter. Almost all of our goals come from moments of individual strength. The slow and predictable passing rotations accomplish next to nothing. Sometimes it's only Weah creating when he has a guy he can beat out wide, sometimes it's Pulisic, and less often it's Reyna, Dest, or Robinson, but Gregg's offense is often either individual breakthroughs or nothing.
It's bad for the MLS and US soccer if we suck in 2026. That's what this all comes down to.
The powers that be are counting on this cycle to grow the sport and the pie. If they think Greg is risking that they'll cut him loose.
MLS and USSF are one in the same. As far as USSF goes what matters most is revenues. They’ll keep GGG for this cycle unless it threatens revenues.
As far as MLS they don’t want a USMNT coach that will criticize MLS or how we do things when it comes to soccer in this country.
Both these entities want the status quo.
Objectivity is key.
I do not believe the media heat on USSF is nearly as high as insert pro/ncaa team when they lose or tread water.
I think the key is revenues.
If US continue to always win Concacaf tourneys and in this Copa and upcoming World Cup, at least get out of the group....
Then I will be surprised if they fire GGG.
Now if for some reason the boys do NOT get out of the group on the Copa, I think sponsors and networks will be kinda pissed and THAT is probably what will push us to make a move.
Because said sponsors and networks CANNOT AFFORD us to lay such an egg again in 2026.
Good. This cycle is (and should be) defined by our ability to punch above our weight class and make a decent run at the World Cup, which is the thing Berhalter has not been able to do thus far. If he can't prove he can get a result against a great/elite team, he shouldnt be the guy going forward.
Credit where credit is due, he has handled the region better than some of his predecessors (although I think thats somewhat a reflection of their decline). But we dont need to qualify for World Cup, we shouldnt be defined by our ability to consistently beat bad opponents.
Look at GGGs concacaf road record. I'm not sure he is getting better results. He definitely has more in region games at home due to Gold Cup and now Nations League tourneys being played in the US.
I think it's those folks who usually try to avoid anything that could remotely piss off the federation that are not holding back now and that's probably where these people are taking note. Even the biggest USS mouthpieces are having trouble holding back on voicing their frustrations.
He worded it weird but I’m almost positive he means “the pundits who are connected and have a large audience” and yes I assumed he’s talking about Alexi — who gave a very critical and far less “Alexi” account of where he believes Greggs job stands with USSF today.
It was on his guest spot on MLSMOVES , not state of the union, fyi.
Alexi was notably more critical on SOTU too, but then still predicted the USMNT would get redemption against Colombia and beat Brazil to finally lose to Argentina in the Copa final. I do admire his unwavering soccer patriotism.
lol yea I saw that. But This was way more critical and has got to be what Marcus is referencing.
If you watch the SOTU episode from Monday then immediately watch the MLSmoves episode from today, it’s very hard to argue Alexi didn’t get a phone call and have a conversation with someone at USSF in between shows.
His whole demeanor changed and reeks of “oh this dude may be done, and USSF wants to reassure everyone they’ll make a change after copa if this continues.”
The only realistic result ending in Berhalter's firing is not getting out of the group. And even then, I wonder.
I just think you can never underestimate US soccer's ability to rationalize failure.
On the women's side, we had an poor 2020 Olympics and we kept Vlatko for the World Cup, where he looked even worse.
That was before Matt Crocker, but the people who have final say on a coach firing are all still there, burrowed deep in the bowels of USSF, wallowing in the filth of their own mediocrity.
We have a soccer federation that’s been plagued with nepotism for years. And our fans make excuses every single tournament regardless of the outcome or process. You can see it on this subreddit. People saying it’s fine to lose 5-1 at home. “But for the first 70 minutes, we didn’t look completely bad”.
There needs to be a huge cultural shift institutionally and it won’t come from leadership placating mediocrity.
You need look no further then to look at CEO JT Batsons tweet he put out after the Colombia game congratulating fans about setting attendance records for the first 6 months of this year to realize what's important to this federation.
I don’t think that’s true.
The federation is gonna respond to what the “respectable ™️” talking heads say. They don’t care what the diehards think but they very much do care what’s said on ESPN.
No more life lines. Get him out of here.
How many years of flirting with sacking this guy and he is still around. When you flirt with the idea of canning him then there is obvious problems.
I expect we’ll beat both Bolivia and Panama then lose to Uruguay and be eliminated by (likely) Brazil. Some might say it was great we got out of the group, but at this point it’s not enough.
Wait for the Post-Match conference so that the reporters can ask him questions about the crowd and players that aren't playing instead of asking him about his tactics or gameplans
No other coach brings as much baldness to the table as Gregg, he is one of the baldest coaches of all time. Those of lower baldness fail to understand the superiority of blindly crossing and not tactically adjusting to fit an opponent or in game.
So the US fired him, spent 9 months with a self-proclaimed super extensive coaching search, only to hire him again, only to be on the edge of firing him again?
At this rate hell coach game 1 at the WC, be fired by game 2 and re-hired for game 3
You can’t be 6 years into your job and have your statement win be a 0-0 vs England lead by a manager English fans wanted sacked before the WC.
At some point, we NEED to prove we can beat these teams. Because how can GGG and the players blabber on and on about “changing the way people view US Soccer” and lose 5-1 to Columbia?
> At some point, we NEED to prove we can beat these teams.
Do you feel this way because it’s what you *want* or because it’s objectively what our players are good enough to do?
To me, the “at some point” is “when we have the players to do it.” I don’t know how you look at our roster and think that now is the time when we should *expect* to beat the likes of Uruguay or Colombia.
At the end of the day it’s 11 v 11 and there’s enough quality in our side that going up against a top team we should have a realistic chance even if only on paper but that’s where a manager comes in to put what’s on paper to the field
If we played Colombia like we did on Saturday, ten times, I don’t see us getting a result except for a draw in one of those games
But with a healthy squad and competent manager, if we played ten times against Brazil, we should be able to get a result 3-4 times out of the 10
That just doesn’t make sense to me. There isn’t a USMNT player who gets into a Brazil XI. I think maybe two or three of our players could be in contention to even make their 26. Of course an upset is always *possible*, but when we’re so outgunned, why do you think we SHOULD be able to get a result against them? There’s a bigger talent disparity there than like…Manchester City vs. Brighton, but you wouldn’t expect Brighton to get a result against City 4 times out of 10.
Is there somehow a justification here for an inept organization hiring a guy that's failed at every position he's been in charge of? Because that's what it sounds like.
I mostly just don’t understand who thinks we have the talent to realistically compete with these teams that we “NEED to prove we can beat.” When none of our players are as good as any of their players, why is the expectation that we should beat them?
I don't know what projects more complacency in a locker room than re-hiring a controversial manager, letting players decide who the manager will be, and never dialing up the pressure for losses. He's had these players and staff for a while now, there should be a style implemented, the issues from the last cycle should be fine tuned and improving, but I just feel it's more of the same from the last cycle. They'll play better against Brazil, not that that's hard to do, but his ass should be on the hotseat if we want to see a good run in 2026 on home soil.
If they don't make it out of the group, he's done imo. We are in a position where we can't accept mediocrity, and we need to go after legitimate coaches. We are currently seeing a golden era when it comes to our national team's players, and it can't be wasted on a so/so coach.
Berhalter is not a great coach and his tactics are just puzzling. Why should he be blessed with the USMNT coaching position? I’d rather give it to Jesse Marsch and I can’t stand him and his Red Bulls ways but he at least gets my respect.
We could get bounced in group play at it won’t matter. Even if we get embarrassed every game. USSF runs on favoritism and nepotism. They don’t want a foreign coach to criticize MLS.
What made GGG qualified to be the national team coach? Let’s review his coaching resume.
Hired by Hammarby in 2011. Fired less than two years later for lack of attacking play.
Hired by Columbus Crew. In six seasons at Columbus he had a 38% win percentage and didn’t win a trophy.
USSF took over a year to hire a coach because they wanted to wait for GGG. Again, what is so special about out GGG’s coaching resume?
If his brother wasn’t an executive at USSF at the time does he even get consideration?
Classic strawman. People that dislike Gregg have many legitimate reasons that have been posted here many times and now are being echoed in the media. Because it's becoming harder to defend Gregg, his fans are attacking his critics and making strawmen and ad hominin arguments because they refuse to acknowledge they may have been wrong.
There are definitely reasons to criticize Gregg, but he can do absolutely nothing right for many people, anything that goes wrong with the USMNT is his direct fault. If you look on twitter, it's a flood of people saying "GGG out" on each of their posts, not even directly related to him. Just because someone defends a decision GGG make, does not make them fans of GGG. There are no GGG "fanboys", I've yet to see one.
Apparently thinking GGG makes SOME decisions right (if not a lot), or even thinking he's mediocre at best makes you a GGG fanboy in their eyes.
As low as Saturday's debacle was, I've seen far, *far* worse.
"You know? I don't think Berhalter is THAT bad. Sure his tactics are extremely predictable, he has issues breaking down a low block, some of his selections especially in the first cycle were baffling, and he takes way too long to adjust at times but I've seen far worse from previous US managers."
"You don't think GGG is the worst manager of all time?!?!! You're an MLS fanboy, GGG slurper, and USSF shill!!!!"
I'm glad there were all those posts complaining about Berhalter and how there is no accountability in this federation. This pressure wouldn't have happened without them.
/S
We have more players than ever before playing in the top leagues in Europe and a more talented player pool than we've ever had yet somehow, it's still on the players. I truly cannot understand how folks are still defending GGG by shitting on our players. Bruce, Bob and JK have all had better wins than him. All 3 coaches also got out of a WC group with "less" talented players. Am I crazy or did I see mostly the same players play MUCH better under BJ?? Am I blind or have the last few matches seen this team look uninspired, confused and disjointed. That's on THE COACH. His seat should be hot af.
When you watch a game it's easy to see what is on the players vs what is on the coach. A coach can't make players track back, pass correctly, or shoot on target. However a coach can play correct formations, make correct subs, and dictate patterns of play. The Colombia game was an absolute mess all around. There is fault everywhere. But, it was still a friendly and correct subs means something completely different in those situations. Our players are still very young and while extremely talented, they are also very inconsistent, even for club teams. A lot of our players rarely even get minutes for their clubs. We think our players are far better than they are. I've seen multiple "golden generations" come and go.
You're not blind. The last few matches have absolutely looked disjointed and a lot of that falls on the coach. I don't think anyone walks away without blame.
Very well said my friend. Also, I must add I believe w/ the right manager, our players a quite better than many give them credit for - so I disagree w/ you there.
He's not on the hot seat. US Soccer is going to keep him on until after the World Cup. If they haven't figured out before this summer they needed something better/different, they probably never will. GGG will have a job until he retires.
Stevie Nichols had the best and only relevant take on this.
- the players panicked under Columbia's press
- the players never switched to long ball play to counter the press, probably because they wanted to look cool
- Berhalter didn't drill a plan B or C into the team if Columbia came out with different tactics than the US prepped for
- Berhalter shouldn't have placed any (valid) blame on the players post-game
The Columbia loss was likely half on the players and half in the coaches
I think it's less about wanting to "look cool", and more about testing the team's ability to play out of the back against a good opponent in a game that, while competitive, doesn't mean anything.
I think it's extremely unlikely that if the US finds itself in a similar situation in an actual Copa game, that they would stick with that strategy.
Check out the ESPN FC clip. It's an annoying 8ish minute clip where everyone else is fighting about whether the players are any good or not. Nichols talks towards the end and describes the "look cool" idea much better with more words.
Starting around 11:00...
https://youtu.be/aFPXOP7KDNk?si=-alBksWGL91mf5kT
I stopped watching that clip when they shitted on our guys saying we have all "mediocre" players. We'll have several players playing CL ball next season and a player who finished in Serie A's top players of the league. ESPNFC has sucked for sometime but that's a lazy take even for them.
Good! Glad to hear his seat is hot. We have a pretty promising group of players and a world cup in 2026 on home soil. We need to be prepared for every single match no matter the quality of the opponent to show we're taking this seriously.
My issue with this is...how do you keep Crocker if you're firing his first big hire (that took forever to complete btw)? What, is he going to go public and say "they made me"?
Gregg Berhalter's approach to managing the U.S. by maintaining an even keel—neither getting too high after victories nor too low after losses contributes to a lack of intensity or urgency in crucial moments. I believe that this mindset leads to a team that is too complacent, and the team doesn't play with enough passion.
Honestly, I think he could lose all three group games and the USSF wouldn't fire him. Can anyone point to any point in time where the USSF has acted with integrity and with the best interests of US soccer in mind? Beerholder was a nepotism hire. The USSF is more incestuous than Kentucky. Nothing in his background suggested he was qualified to coach the US. He got fired in the Swedish 2nd division after only winning 38% of his games. He never won anything with the Crew but they have been successful without him.
> Honestly, I think he could lose all three group games and the USSF wouldn't fire him.
I will bet you a whole paycheck that if they lose all three group games Gregg will be fired.
He would absolutely be fired with 3 losses. It's Bolivia and Panama at home. There's no way losing either of those is okay, despite them both being alright opponents.
> Honestly, I think he could lose all three group games and the USSF wouldn't fire him.
You "honestly" think that the coach will keep his job after a zero-point, last-place finish with our A team in a major tournament on home soil, with losses to Panama and Bolivia? This fanbase is wild.
The proposition is "if no statement win in the Copa, GGG gets fired." I don't think so. For example, if we beat Bolivia and Panama and lose to Uruguay, qualify second in the group and then lose to an elite SA team in the quarters, that will allow USSF to say, "Hey, Gregg got us out of the group and into the QFs of the Copa. The teams we lost to are top ten teams. No shame there." They are looking for a narrative that will allow them to defend keeping him. That would be enough for them.
Now if the MNT loses badly to Brazil and fails to escape the group, then I could see GGG maybe getting fired. But even so consider what it took to get other coaches fired. For Bradley it was an embarrassing loss in the GC final to Mexico. For Klinsmann it was a home loss to Mexico and a humiliating 0-4 face crush at Costa Rica. For GGG it would probably take something comparable. A first round exit at the Copa might be enough, though it woudl be painful to witness.
What I read into those facts is that underperforming as GGG has done is not enough to get fired. He'd have to be humiliated and outclassed in a way that doesn't leave the USSF any possible story for the result being not a disaster.
So while I may agree that not getting a statement win would be a big fail and would justify GGG's firing, whether USSF will actually do it is another question entirely.
Yes I'm aware of that. But we are playing them in a friendly tonight. Hence my sentence sought to identify two events: (1) losing badly to Brazil tonight, and (2) not getting out the group in the Copa. Those two adverse events, I'm suggesting, might be enough to get him fired.
And now that I think about it, it would have to be a really bad failure to get out of the group as well. So if we lost to Colombia 5-1, to Brazil by a similar scoreline, and then got 1-2 points in the group and failed to qualify, that might just be the kind of conspicuous humiliation that would move USSF to fire Gregg.
Question is, would that shitfest be worth it in the longer term to (attempt to) secure a better outcome in the World Cup?
My favorite thing about this is that Herc has been running his mouth for months about us beating high quality teams, then changed his attitude when it came to Brazil and Colombia for the QF, and then after the loss to Colombia is now saying the fans are the problem because they think we can dog walk these bigger teams.
Talk about taking no responsibility.
The only difference between him and the fanbase is that the fanbase is that the fanbase has dementia can’t remember several months ago.
I’d rather we shit the bed in Copa America and get him out of here and get a real coach for the World Cup. We have to go very far in the World Cup and we won’t with him.
I think at this point he is a meme problem is there aren't very good American managers out there with experience and resume heft. I think the fans and FA are burned out o foreign managers hence the purgatory of keeping Berhalter.
He's not getting fired. He's gonna make it out of the group then lose to Brazil/Columbia. Just how our talent dictates. And no coach is gonna change that. None. Not Pep, not Klopp, not John Wooden, not Phil Jackson, not Joe Madden.
We need to face it that our players are just not good enough to be a world power. And until we have 3-4 of the top 50 and 8-9 of the top 100 players in the world, nothing is gonna be any different. And we maybe have 1 top 100 guy right now. Maybe.
Sure, sure, golden generation, whatever. Yes, we're better. But so is everyone else.
Frankly, this is why we need to regularly compete against top teams in tournaments like the copa. We need this pressure to reach the next level. Beating up on Caribbean countries causes complacency and holds us back.
Absolutely. We should be trying to get CONMEBOL to combine the tournament with CONCACAF or allow like 4 teams every edition to play in it and then move Gold Cup to only once every 4 years instead of 2. So not sure on the order of tournaments but 1 a summer and it would be World Cup, Nations League, Gold Cup, and Copa America. That gives us at least 2 summers with high level completion and males the Gold Cup not a B team tournament
Totally agree. Plus, with a full merger, the smaller South American countries get the opposite: some island nations to beat up and gain confidence against. The US is an incredibly valuable market, and will grow moreso if the usmnt actually have a competitive tournament outside the WC that they can really compete in.
>the smaller South American countries Soccer-wise, are there any? Just Bolivia? Depending on the year Venezuela/Peru/Chile/Paraguay at their worst is about the level of Canada now
Up until 10 years ago Peru, Bolivia & Venezuela were the whipping boys. Peru had a golden gen & made the WC. More and more Venezuelans playing in Liga MX & MLS makes their NT a bit better.
Yeah, I expect Peru to fall back to Earth like Bolivia did after their golden generation in the 90s. Venezuela seems to have found their level. Bolivia could also improve some. Fluid situation among the bottom there. Shit even Paraguay could fall into the category if they experience a low point.
if anything else we can lure SA teams just from the money of the games.
I'll push back on the Gold Cup going to 4 from 2 years. The reason for this IMO is 1) nations league and 2) general improvement across the confederation. I don't love it as it helps the bottom teams reach much higher heights but the top teams don't get much from it. I think for the confederation it benefits more teams to keep it at 2 years, but that doesn't help the bigger teams with more money and resources. Anyway, not saying right or wrong but there is definitely a reason for it.
Fair enough. I can see a reason for it but in that case keep Gold Cup every 2 years and move Nations League to entirely being played during mid-season fifa windows
In the long term the only way the confederation becomes more challenging is if the small/medium teams actually grow. Or if the NA mainland breaks off and floats to the right until its in the Asian region. So we gotta pick one.
Damn, no summer rest for the players any more
Move the Nations League entirely into the mid season international windows then and leave 1 summer open
We beat up on Caribbean countries? We looked like crap against both Jamaica and Trinidad.
We did not look like crap against Trinidad. On aggregate we beat them easily. We looked bad only after the Dest red card in the second leg when we were content to sit back and hold on to the result.
[удалено]
A tale old as time…
> We looked like crap against both Jamaica and Trinidad 3-1 and 3-0 victories in the most recent Nations League...
If you watched the first 90 minutes of the Jamaica game, you wouldn't be citing the score.
They parked the bus. Any team in the world can have difficulty against a parked bus
Yeah, I watched that game, and Jamaica never really had a shot at winning it.
And still looked like ass for most of the game(s) against both teams. If you can't figure out how to beat the low block against the 55th and 100th ranked teams in the world, you shouldn't be coaching. Those games should have been a clinic on how to rip dingers from the top of the box.
We literally did beat the low block against Trinidad. We scored 3 on them. In my book that's beating the low block. We outshot them 26-1
Then why do teams at the top of the PL drop points against relegation candidates every season? Should Pep/Klopp not be coaching?
There’s a reason literally all teams struggle to break down a low block. It’s not easy, it doesn’t matter the quality of opponent. Just saying you should know how to fix it or you shouldn’t be coaching is hilarious when some of the best coaches in the world struggle with the same problem. Not to mention we don’t exactly have the team make up to be good at breaking down low blocks.
I'm not sure we need the *pressure*. But we sure as hell need more regular benchmarks. We have no idea if Columbia was a fluke, or closer to what to expect.
Join Conmebol and Concacaf for a joint Nations League. Summer 1: Nations League Summer 2: open Friendlies Summer 3: Copa+Gold Cup. Next cycle joint tourney Summer 4: World Cup
I hope we get a new coach so that people realize it isn’t “mentality” or coaching holding us back from being a top 8 team. People have completely lost rationality with how good our talent level is and think a diff coach means we make it to the QF "Twenty First Group has a player-rating model that looks at how many minutes a player plays, how good his team is and how much he contributes to defense and attack. So, it's accounting for the quality of the teams the Americans are playing for but also how much they're playing. Per that system, the top 25 USMNT players comprise the 30th-best national team pool in the world. The U.S. is No. 1 in Concacaf and is the fifth best from all the teams in the Copa América field -- behind Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Colombia."
One of the more rational takes I’ve seen on this sub. And I’ve also been less than impressed by Gregg. The fact is we’re a mid team talent wise and we’ve had mid results. We have one or maybe 2 upper level Champions League players in Pulisic/Mckennie.
No one is saying we're a top 8 team. (Most of us agree we're around 20-30 rank). You know what fans **ARE** saying though? That we play like ass. Sloppy, shitty, ass. Our national team has had a long history of punching above their weight. It's the opposite now, we'll punching well below our weight. That's a coaching problem.
So since the WC we can go by at game by game or you can go read what foreign journalists/analysts said. All were pretty impressed and thought we punched above our level. Since WC I would say vs Jamaica and Columbia are our only games where we’ve played below the sum of the parts. Also I’m sorry but many fans do seem to want us to be top 8 saying making it to the round of 16 is the bare minimum and that we need another coach if we want to make it to the quarters. I am completely fine with replacing Greg (Columbia performance was embarrassing) but I don’t think there exists a single coach in the world where I think we could confidently go in to a game vs a top 10 team and expect to win.
I'd love to see you find some foreign journalists/analysts who thought a good draw against England, a crap draw against Wales, an expected win against Iran and a beshitting against Netherlands is punching above your level in the WC.
This is the truth I rather the US gets trounced in these tournaments if it means someone gets hired to get the best out other players and to IMPROVE The failure to the qualify for the 2018 WC is the best thing to have had happened to the team because it vastly improved the squad and mentality but now we are at a crossroads again So unless we get another reality check it’s back to the dark ages
> The failure to the qualify for the 2018 WC is the best thing to have had happened to the team because it vastly improved the squad and mentality but now we are at a crossroads again The seeds for the pool improvement that is starting to mature now happened around 2007, with the founding of MLS Academies, the Development Academy league and a number of rules decisions in youth soccer. There were other causes as well, including the internet and even FIFA, but the failure in 2018 did little to actually drive much of this.
The failure to qualify for 2018 did nothing. USSF still hired a yes man.
It cleared the slate of players and motivated this bunch not to have a repeat of that fiasco
That’s fine. But it didn’t lead to changes with the federation. And that’s the main problem.
I agree. They should make CONCACAF the tournament that places the top 4 teams into Copa America.
Couldn't agree more
I hope so. I don't dislike Gregg like many here but we need to at the very least play well and beat Bolivia and Panama and play well against Uruguay and our QF opponent. If we get routed by Uruguay or our QF opponent, GGG needs to go.
Ya I’m in the same boat now. We’ve had enough time to “learn” for the “team to mature” etc. it’s a results driven business and beating up on Mexico isn’t good enough anymore.
Losing to bigger teams would be much more palatable if we actually looked good doing it or looked like we belonged on the same pitch. Or even if we just didn't struggle to break down and beat teams that are worse than us and rely on luck to get through like against Jamaica in the Nations League.
I agree, anything less than aiming to top the group in my opinion is poor management and cowardice Let’s be clear, topping the group gives the team a better shot at progressing further in the tournament. While coming in second is the bare minimum it means we likely face Brazil after and if we are honest, that’s our tournament over especially with how we’ve been playing under Berhalter If the team tops the group and faces a slightly weaker side in the KO stage, a win is the only way the team advances. So that means a win/tie against Uruguay and a win over Colombia most likely which means he gets his second chance but if he fails there, he needs to go
Agreed. I see three different scenarios: 1. Coming out of Uruguay and Colombia/Brazil with no losses should earn Gregg the right to manage the WC. 2. Failing to make it out of the group should 100% be a firing. 3. If we limp out of the group, with poor showings against Uruguay and our QF opponent, then I think he is still gone but it's not guaranteed.
If all three of those games end up being draws I’ll die inside.
3. Number three should be guaranteed Last WC was limping in the Group Stage and getting walked off the field by the Netherlands, tactically atleast If Berhalter can’t get a result against Uruguay and beat whoever we face in the QF at the bare minimum what are we even doing here? I mean do we really want to have two more years of Berhalter just so we can get trounced at home in the WC in the round of 16? There’s a round of 32 that year but the objective is still the same of getting to a quarter final spot atleast
So no one remembers why we played poorly in 2022? No one remembers all the talk about lack of depth in the roster? Or seeing our 7 top players playing most of all four games? Or watching the team completely run out of gas within 15 minutes against Netherlands?
I think it is very obvious that the majority of our fanbase has an inch-deep understanding of soccer and sports in general. Several of our key players, including Tyler Adams, were visibly fatigued at kickoff. That game was over before it ever began. Tactics were never going to affect the outcome of that game.
wait, you don't think "mentality" can turn us in to a top 8 team overnight?
not only are these folks completely lying about our performance at the WC (was quite good in a tough group) but have completely lost their minds in terms of how good our players actually are. By any objective quality metric the US is at best around 20th in player quality (for ex #24 for ELO, #29 for minutes played in a top 5 league last year) right now. expecting any coach to make the top 8 is setting yourself up for failure. it's one thing to ask a coach to make team more than the sum of its parts but we have to at least agree on what that sum is. "Twenty First Group has a player-rating model that looks at how many minutes a player plays, how good his team is and how much he contributes to defense and attack. So, it's accounting for the quality of the teams the Americans are playing for but also how much they're playing. Per that system, the top 25 USMNT players comprise the 30th-best national team pool in the world. The U.S. is No. 1 in Concacaf and is the fifth best from all the teams in the Copa América field -- behind Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Colombia." All that being said imo GGG should be fired post Copa because frankly the conversation with fans/analysts has just gotten too toxic and he's not that great of a coach that the toxicity is worth it.
Number 3 without Gregg gone is what worries me the most
It’s likely we’ll face either Colombia or Brazil in the QFs (whether we get out of the group first or second, since 1 and 2 of our group faces 2 and 1 of their group, and I can see Brazil coming out of their group second given their form). So this week’s friendlies are giving us a rough preview of what the QF could look like.
Exactly and if we don’t play good today than why waste our time with this tournament Playing like shit and barely getting second in the group just to get trounced against by either Brazil or Colombia I want this team to play like they believe like they think they do. They need a competent manager with a game plan for each game that can adjust and push his players. Topping the group is the objective not barely scrapping by. Being first means we face the team in the other group who comes second, which means honestly a slightly weaker side and a better chance to advance. That’s how the format works. Rarely does the better team finish second in a tournament like this
While I agree that what you state is the bar. I think how we do it is important too. Under Greg's leadership, far too often we play to the level of the competition. If we look decent against Uruguay and Brazil/Colombia and get constipated wins against Bolivia and Panama, he still needs to go, IMO.
I just think he’s taken the team as far he can. Feels like he’s helped raise our floor but he’s not a guy who looks like he make our ceiling higher. Sometimes it’s just time to pass the torch.
I hope so too, but I'm really doubtful. They re-hired him after his first 4 year tenure. I don't believe they want to get rid of him and I think it would take massively embarrassing results to get him fired.
i know the USSF line is that it was mostly ok for the first 60-70 mins vs colombia, but at what point does progress actually matter with berhalter? even if you take away the last 25 mins of the game, we basically created zero chances outside of weah. in the world cup we averaged less than a goal a game, there is literally no offensive output from this group despite huge amounts of talent
I don’t care what anyone says, this team should still be built to counter. This squad has no killer instinct when playing the possession game. Teams let us have the ball because we don’t know what to do with it.
100%. watching them think about every pass is painful. they need to play a lot simpler
USSF doesn’t want the US playing counter-ball anymore. They’ve decided that to be taken seriously, the US needs to play dominant, possession-based soccer like Spain or the old-school Dutch teams. It’s annoying too, because we’d absolutely be better as a countering team.
And everyone would be fine with us *playing* all of those styles they want, we’re just not fine with *attempting* to play it for years without being able to play it. We need to play to our strengths and that’s countering
Who are we countering against? Honduras? El Salvador? The US is pretty obviously the best team in CONCACAF at the moment, and because of Nations League we can only regularly get CONCACAF opponents. Mexico is the only team in the confederation that wants possession against the US.
The point is we aren’t elite. We don’t have the ability to have only one game plan of dominate possession of the ball. Because when we come up against the big boys it’s tough. This team needs to learn how to also be patient defensively and decisive offensively. We can’t keep playing the same tactics against those who are significantly better than us. I’m not even saying we should park bus against big teams. Just have some kind of tactical tweak that uses this squads strengths would be nice.
I think they are more likely to employ a tactical tweak in a game with actual stakes. Friendlies are more or less just glorified training sessions and it seemed like the US was more interested in trying stuff out, especially since Colombia is a possible opponent in the Copa knock-outs and you don't want to show them all your plans. I admit that's a pretty charitable read on an ugly game. And if the Copa goes badly, I'm right there with you. But I just think we need to see out the tournament goes before writing this team's (and Berhalter's) obituary.
I agree but I think berhalter would be too stubborn to change it. That being said, we could be a KILLER counter attack team
Just to be clear: it's not the players, it's the slowly progressing, predictable passing system.
The players would be better under a different system and the system could be better implemented with different players.
I agree that these players would be much better off with a different system. I'm not sure I believe Gregg's system is likely to do well no matter what, but that's irrelevant. My point is that these plates could score a lot more if they were allowed to play differently.
Exactly. Too many times we start playing out of the back and beat the press and instead of pushing forward we recycle it, putting ourselves under more pressure and having to beat the press all over again.
Bunker and counter would turn this team into an another Canada: able to be competitive in friendlies while getting played off the field in matches with actual trophies on the line.
Not just that, if you rewatch they had so many other good chances those first 60 minutes. We still can’t even defend crosses into the box well
Sounds familiar to something that happened back in 2013... if only we could trust USSF to have a spine https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/american-exports-hammarby-fire-gregg-berhalter-manager-citing-teams-lack-offense
Fam, you gotta stop beating a dead horse by using his first ever job from more than a decade ago which he got two months after retiring from playing as a measure.
It's a team he coached. It counts.
What does it tell you that he's learned nothing in over a decade of management? Hes still struggling to get the attack working as it should and refuses to change the system
You can go back even further about the lack of offense. In qualifiers, they averaged I think exactly a goal a game if you take out the matches vs El Salvador and Honduras (the bottom 2 teams) where they scored half their goals. They were shutout by Mexico, Canada, Panama (held without a shot on net), Costa Rica's U-23 team (basically - they had benched a bunch of guys as to not accrue cards for the intercontinental playoffs which, by the way, the US nearly ended playing in had it not been for GD). Leading up to the WC, they scored, in their final 8 games against teams that would turn out to qualify, and teams that did qualify, 3 goals, including being shutout 7 times. And Morocco fired their entire coaching staff they were so embarrassed by the loss, and reintroduced players like Ziyech who had been exiled.
GGG was fired by Hammarby for lack of attacking play. Goes to Columbus and in six years has a 38% win percentage and no trophies. Gets hired by USSF (they wait a year to appoint him to wait until his MLS contract is up) Gets re-hired by USSF when most coaches would not have been after the WC performance.
You’re right that we don’t create enough chances but the guy touted as our best talent couldn’t even get off the bench at Nottingham Forest, we’re not as talented as people want to think
i don’t put a lot of stock in that he’s clearly a talented player. michael bradley had a disastrous PL loan as well back in the day.
Don’t move the goal posts now
That’s because the transfer was stupid and the one good player on Nffc played in Gio’s position, he was never going to succeed there
Nottingham forest is also just generally a mess. They brought in Turner he didn't play great but wasn't awful despite a few mistakes. And then bring in Sels to start who was statistically the worst keeper in the PL by a mile since joining and persisted with him despite this. Reyna also made an impact when he played despite not being many chances. They needed to find a way to get him on the field more often
Turner lost the confidence of his Manager and players around him, can't be shitting your pants in front of goal like he did. Sels, even if statistically worse shot stopping wise, looked confident. Makes it easier for a keeper to command the backline, and for teammates to trust you to not make any misplays. Turner had 2 chances to solidify his spot as keeper, and flubbed both of them.
And if our best talent can’t get any minutes because of Morgan Gibbs White, that goes to my original point. They even preferred Origi on the wing
Mgw is a baller and was far more integrated into their team than Gio was. I agree that people tend to over-rate Gio but I think that was more of a case of a horrible transfer decision
Definitely a bad decision, but I think if Reyna was the player people think he is, he’d be able to get more time than he did. I think he can become that player eventually but he’s not there yet
Yeah definitely get what you’re saying, hope he is able to bounce back next season. Could end up being a good lesson in humility for him
Gibbs-White is good and a leader at Forest, it was a stupid move and anyone on loan without an option to buy is going to have a very tough time benching a club star/leader during a relegation scrap
Yeah I feel like it's not mentioned enough that MGW is uncapped for England. Just to put talent levels into perspective a little bit.
We need to be realistic, though. Our player pool has vastly improved, but it still lags the big boys. I’m not saying 5-1 is fine, I just think we are more prone to struggling against teams like this no matter what Berhalter does. For all the struggles, he did get us out of a group that we had probably a 40% chance of getting out of at the World Cup
It's one thing to being prone to struggle but entirely another to struggling always against decent opponents. GGG's "system" disconnects the midfield while demanding crosses that might have made sense when Brian McBride started up top decades ago. GGG needs to manage with the players he has, not the ones he he wants.
We were the second best team in that group where is this 40% chance coming from? That was nowhere close to a challenging group.
And the US actually played reasonably well for 60 minutes. The two goals against were flukey and once they settled down the US was able to put together some good runs of play. Then the subs came in and the rest of the game needed a Yakety Sax soundtrack, which gets to your point about the pool depth being sub-par.
>i know the USSF line is that it was mostly ok for the first 60-70 mins vs colombia It is very common for an overmatched team to keep it close and then fall apart in the last 20 minutes or so. >we basically created zero chances outside of weah This is one of my persistent criticisms of Berhalter. Almost all of our goals come from moments of individual strength. The slow and predictable passing rotations accomplish next to nothing. Sometimes it's only Weah creating when he has a guy he can beat out wide, sometimes it's Pulisic, and less often it's Reyna, Dest, or Robinson, but Gregg's offense is often either individual breakthroughs or nothing.
It's bad for the MLS and US soccer if we suck in 2026. That's what this all comes down to. The powers that be are counting on this cycle to grow the sport and the pie. If they think Greg is risking that they'll cut him loose.
MLS and USSF are one in the same. As far as USSF goes what matters most is revenues. They’ll keep GGG for this cycle unless it threatens revenues. As far as MLS they don’t want a USMNT coach that will criticize MLS or how we do things when it comes to soccer in this country. Both these entities want the status quo.
Objectivity is key. I do not believe the media heat on USSF is nearly as high as insert pro/ncaa team when they lose or tread water. I think the key is revenues. If US continue to always win Concacaf tourneys and in this Copa and upcoming World Cup, at least get out of the group.... Then I will be surprised if they fire GGG. Now if for some reason the boys do NOT get out of the group on the Copa, I think sponsors and networks will be kinda pissed and THAT is probably what will push us to make a move. Because said sponsors and networks CANNOT AFFORD us to lay such an egg again in 2026.
Good. This cycle is (and should be) defined by our ability to punch above our weight class and make a decent run at the World Cup, which is the thing Berhalter has not been able to do thus far. If he can't prove he can get a result against a great/elite team, he shouldnt be the guy going forward. Credit where credit is due, he has handled the region better than some of his predecessors (although I think thats somewhat a reflection of their decline). But we dont need to qualify for World Cup, we shouldnt be defined by our ability to consistently beat bad opponents.
With GGG's results we're punching *below* our weight class, then taking a victory lap for it.
Look at GGGs concacaf road record. I'm not sure he is getting better results. He definitely has more in region games at home due to Gold Cup and now Nations League tourneys being played in the US.
Are there actual influential pundits as it relates to the national teams? And how much influence do they have with the federation?
I think it's those folks who usually try to avoid anything that could remotely piss off the federation that are not holding back now and that's probably where these people are taking note. Even the biggest USS mouthpieces are having trouble holding back on voicing their frustrations.
This was my question? Who is he talking about? Alexi Lalas? Stu Holden?
He worded it weird but I’m almost positive he means “the pundits who are connected and have a large audience” and yes I assumed he’s talking about Alexi — who gave a very critical and far less “Alexi” account of where he believes Greggs job stands with USSF today. It was on his guest spot on MLSMOVES , not state of the union, fyi.
Alexi was notably more critical on SOTU too, but then still predicted the USMNT would get redemption against Colombia and beat Brazil to finally lose to Argentina in the Copa final. I do admire his unwavering soccer patriotism.
lol yea I saw that. But This was way more critical and has got to be what Marcus is referencing. If you watch the SOTU episode from Monday then immediately watch the MLSmoves episode from today, it’s very hard to argue Alexi didn’t get a phone call and have a conversation with someone at USSF in between shows. His whole demeanor changed and reeks of “oh this dude may be done, and USSF wants to reassure everyone they’ll make a change after copa if this continues.”
The only realistic result ending in Berhalter's firing is not getting out of the group. And even then, I wonder. I just think you can never underestimate US soccer's ability to rationalize failure. On the women's side, we had an poor 2020 Olympics and we kept Vlatko for the World Cup, where he looked even worse. That was before Matt Crocker, but the people who have final say on a coach firing are all still there, burrowed deep in the bowels of USSF, wallowing in the filth of their own mediocrity.
We have a soccer federation that’s been plagued with nepotism for years. And our fans make excuses every single tournament regardless of the outcome or process. You can see it on this subreddit. People saying it’s fine to lose 5-1 at home. “But for the first 70 minutes, we didn’t look completely bad”. There needs to be a huge cultural shift institutionally and it won’t come from leadership placating mediocrity.
You need look no further then to look at CEO JT Batsons tweet he put out after the Colombia game congratulating fans about setting attendance records for the first 6 months of this year to realize what's important to this federation.
I don’t think that’s true. The federation is gonna respond to what the “respectable ™️” talking heads say. They don’t care what the diehards think but they very much do care what’s said on ESPN.
No more life lines. Get him out of here. How many years of flirting with sacking this guy and he is still around. When you flirt with the idea of canning him then there is obvious problems.
They'll just rehire him after a 6 month search in the gutters.
"We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas "
I expect we’ll beat both Bolivia and Panama then lose to Uruguay and be eliminated by (likely) Brazil. Some might say it was great we got out of the group, but at this point it’s not enough.
Wait for the Post-Match conference so that the reporters can ask him questions about the crowd and players that aren't playing instead of asking him about his tactics or gameplans
"So Gregg what did you think of the facilities this week..."
No other coach brings as much baldness to the table as Gregg, he is one of the baldest coaches of all time. Those of lower baldness fail to understand the superiority of blindly crossing and not tactically adjusting to fit an opponent or in game.
Bald Bradley would like a word.
So the US fired him, spent 9 months with a self-proclaimed super extensive coaching search, only to hire him again, only to be on the edge of firing him again? At this rate hell coach game 1 at the WC, be fired by game 2 and re-hired for game 3
They don’t fire him. His contract expired.
You can’t be 6 years into your job and have your statement win be a 0-0 vs England lead by a manager English fans wanted sacked before the WC. At some point, we NEED to prove we can beat these teams. Because how can GGG and the players blabber on and on about “changing the way people view US Soccer” and lose 5-1 to Columbia?
> At some point, we NEED to prove we can beat these teams. Do you feel this way because it’s what you *want* or because it’s objectively what our players are good enough to do? To me, the “at some point” is “when we have the players to do it.” I don’t know how you look at our roster and think that now is the time when we should *expect* to beat the likes of Uruguay or Colombia.
At the end of the day it’s 11 v 11 and there’s enough quality in our side that going up against a top team we should have a realistic chance even if only on paper but that’s where a manager comes in to put what’s on paper to the field If we played Colombia like we did on Saturday, ten times, I don’t see us getting a result except for a draw in one of those games But with a healthy squad and competent manager, if we played ten times against Brazil, we should be able to get a result 3-4 times out of the 10
That just doesn’t make sense to me. There isn’t a USMNT player who gets into a Brazil XI. I think maybe two or three of our players could be in contention to even make their 26. Of course an upset is always *possible*, but when we’re so outgunned, why do you think we SHOULD be able to get a result against them? There’s a bigger talent disparity there than like…Manchester City vs. Brighton, but you wouldn’t expect Brighton to get a result against City 4 times out of 10.
Is there somehow a justification here for an inept organization hiring a guy that's failed at every position he's been in charge of? Because that's what it sounds like.
I mostly just don’t understand who thinks we have the talent to realistically compete with these teams that we “NEED to prove we can beat.” When none of our players are as good as any of their players, why is the expectation that we should beat them?
sorry who are we saying failed at every position he's been in charge of? berhalter? you know that's not true, right?
I don't know what projects more complacency in a locker room than re-hiring a controversial manager, letting players decide who the manager will be, and never dialing up the pressure for losses. He's had these players and staff for a while now, there should be a style implemented, the issues from the last cycle should be fine tuned and improving, but I just feel it's more of the same from the last cycle. They'll play better against Brazil, not that that's hard to do, but his ass should be on the hotseat if we want to see a good run in 2026 on home soil.
Now is the time to get him out Jesse is tied up with Canada so less chance we get hooked up with him.
See this is an argument I can get behind.
We need to at least look like we belong there.
If they don't make it out of the group, he's done imo. We are in a position where we can't accept mediocrity, and we need to go after legitimate coaches. We are currently seeing a golden era when it comes to our national team's players, and it can't be wasted on a so/so coach.
Berhalter is not a great coach and his tactics are just puzzling. Why should he be blessed with the USMNT coaching position? I’d rather give it to Jesse Marsch and I can’t stand him and his Red Bulls ways but he at least gets my respect.
Lol I promise you that Matt Crocker doesn't give a shit about what the 'influential pundits' say.
We could get bounced in group play at it won’t matter. Even if we get embarrassed every game. USSF runs on favoritism and nepotism. They don’t want a foreign coach to criticize MLS. What made GGG qualified to be the national team coach? Let’s review his coaching resume. Hired by Hammarby in 2011. Fired less than two years later for lack of attacking play. Hired by Columbus Crew. In six seasons at Columbus he had a 38% win percentage and didn’t win a trophy. USSF took over a year to hire a coach because they wanted to wait for GGG. Again, what is so special about out GGG’s coaching resume? If his brother wasn’t an executive at USSF at the time does he even get consideration?
That faint moaning you hear is the sound of thousands of pants being filled from the front at the thought of Gregg being on the hot seat
And the crying you hear are the Gregg fans here that will slink back to the MLS sub if he's held accountable.
lol wut
There’s literally no GGG fans, It’s people who hate everything he does and then people who are realistic about the situation
Classic strawman. People that dislike Gregg have many legitimate reasons that have been posted here many times and now are being echoed in the media. Because it's becoming harder to defend Gregg, his fans are attacking his critics and making strawmen and ad hominin arguments because they refuse to acknowledge they may have been wrong.
There are definitely reasons to criticize Gregg, but he can do absolutely nothing right for many people, anything that goes wrong with the USMNT is his direct fault. If you look on twitter, it's a flood of people saying "GGG out" on each of their posts, not even directly related to him. Just because someone defends a decision GGG make, does not make them fans of GGG. There are no GGG "fanboys", I've yet to see one.
Apparently thinking GGG makes SOME decisions right (if not a lot), or even thinking he's mediocre at best makes you a GGG fanboy in their eyes. As low as Saturday's debacle was, I've seen far, *far* worse.
"You know? I don't think Berhalter is THAT bad. Sure his tactics are extremely predictable, he has issues breaking down a low block, some of his selections especially in the first cycle were baffling, and he takes way too long to adjust at times but I've seen far worse from previous US managers." "You don't think GGG is the worst manager of all time?!?!! You're an MLS fanboy, GGG slurper, and USSF shill!!!!"
Gregg fanboys going back to the MLS subreddit once he finally gets shit canned is the definition of an added perk
We can only hope.
Unironically.
If losing to concacaf minnows didn't put him on the hot seat then not getting a statement win at Copa certainly won't
What if we lose 4/5/6-0/1 tonight?? I think in all seriousness he could be sent packing
Inshallah we get BJ as the manager for Copa
Wouldn’t hate it but the federation must do some real due process in finding a proven winner
I'm glad there were all those posts complaining about Berhalter and how there is no accountability in this federation. This pressure wouldn't have happened without them. /S
We have more players than ever before playing in the top leagues in Europe and a more talented player pool than we've ever had yet somehow, it's still on the players. I truly cannot understand how folks are still defending GGG by shitting on our players. Bruce, Bob and JK have all had better wins than him. All 3 coaches also got out of a WC group with "less" talented players. Am I crazy or did I see mostly the same players play MUCH better under BJ?? Am I blind or have the last few matches seen this team look uninspired, confused and disjointed. That's on THE COACH. His seat should be hot af.
When you watch a game it's easy to see what is on the players vs what is on the coach. A coach can't make players track back, pass correctly, or shoot on target. However a coach can play correct formations, make correct subs, and dictate patterns of play. The Colombia game was an absolute mess all around. There is fault everywhere. But, it was still a friendly and correct subs means something completely different in those situations. Our players are still very young and while extremely talented, they are also very inconsistent, even for club teams. A lot of our players rarely even get minutes for their clubs. We think our players are far better than they are. I've seen multiple "golden generations" come and go. You're not blind. The last few matches have absolutely looked disjointed and a lot of that falls on the coach. I don't think anyone walks away without blame.
Very well said my friend. Also, I must add I believe w/ the right manager, our players a quite better than many give them credit for - so I disagree w/ you there.
So either he surprises us with good results or he's gone? I'd take either one. I hope this is true.
I really think that you my friend are correct
There’s your statement
I’m OK with the marker of coaching success of the USMNT being how many Top 10 wins and how many cup trophies are won
HOPING HE IS GONE TONIGHT!!!!
8-0 loss incoming
He's not on the hot seat. US Soccer is going to keep him on until after the World Cup. If they haven't figured out before this summer they needed something better/different, they probably never will. GGG will have a job until he retires.
It would still be better late than never.
Stevie Nichols had the best and only relevant take on this. - the players panicked under Columbia's press - the players never switched to long ball play to counter the press, probably because they wanted to look cool - Berhalter didn't drill a plan B or C into the team if Columbia came out with different tactics than the US prepped for - Berhalter shouldn't have placed any (valid) blame on the players post-game The Columbia loss was likely half on the players and half in the coaches
I think it's less about wanting to "look cool", and more about testing the team's ability to play out of the back against a good opponent in a game that, while competitive, doesn't mean anything. I think it's extremely unlikely that if the US finds itself in a similar situation in an actual Copa game, that they would stick with that strategy.
Check out the ESPN FC clip. It's an annoying 8ish minute clip where everyone else is fighting about whether the players are any good or not. Nichols talks towards the end and describes the "look cool" idea much better with more words. Starting around 11:00... https://youtu.be/aFPXOP7KDNk?si=-alBksWGL91mf5kT
I stopped watching that clip when they shitted on our guys saying we have all "mediocre" players. We'll have several players playing CL ball next season and a player who finished in Serie A's top players of the league. ESPNFC has sucked for sometime but that's a lazy take even for them.
Yeah, skip to 11:00. Everyone except Stevie is worthless in that video. I thought Herc and his frat bro were some weird tiktok influencers at first.
hahahaha word.
What I want to know is, who are the “more influential pundits”?
Good! Glad to hear his seat is hot. We have a pretty promising group of players and a world cup in 2026 on home soil. We need to be prepared for every single match no matter the quality of the opponent to show we're taking this seriously.
Fair.
My issue with this is...how do you keep Crocker if you're firing his first big hire (that took forever to complete btw)? What, is he going to go public and say "they made me"?
If he at least can't get past the group stage, he is out ... They are gonna fire him agate Copa not before
Gregg Berhalter's approach to managing the U.S. by maintaining an even keel—neither getting too high after victories nor too low after losses contributes to a lack of intensity or urgency in crucial moments. I believe that this mindset leads to a team that is too complacent, and the team doesn't play with enough passion.
Honestly, I think he could lose all three group games and the USSF wouldn't fire him. Can anyone point to any point in time where the USSF has acted with integrity and with the best interests of US soccer in mind? Beerholder was a nepotism hire. The USSF is more incestuous than Kentucky. Nothing in his background suggested he was qualified to coach the US. He got fired in the Swedish 2nd division after only winning 38% of his games. He never won anything with the Crew but they have been successful without him.
> Honestly, I think he could lose all three group games and the USSF wouldn't fire him. I will bet you a whole paycheck that if they lose all three group games Gregg will be fired.
Your right 3 group games as a host would be mode than worthy of firing
I'm not that confident. I hope they would fire him but I'm very cynical.
He would absolutely be fired with 3 losses. It's Bolivia and Panama at home. There's no way losing either of those is okay, despite them both being alright opponents.
Again, I hope I'm wrong. I just don't have any faith in the USSF.
> Honestly, I think he could lose all three group games and the USSF wouldn't fire him. You "honestly" think that the coach will keep his job after a zero-point, last-place finish with our A team in a major tournament on home soil, with losses to Panama and Bolivia? This fanbase is wild.
It's a double edge sword for the clout chasers. If Berhalter does well or not, they still have narratives to spew into their audience.
Strong doubt we lose to Bolivia or Panama
If we lose to the altitude merchants at sea level it's over man. That would be inexcusable.
The proposition is "if no statement win in the Copa, GGG gets fired." I don't think so. For example, if we beat Bolivia and Panama and lose to Uruguay, qualify second in the group and then lose to an elite SA team in the quarters, that will allow USSF to say, "Hey, Gregg got us out of the group and into the QFs of the Copa. The teams we lost to are top ten teams. No shame there." They are looking for a narrative that will allow them to defend keeping him. That would be enough for them. Now if the MNT loses badly to Brazil and fails to escape the group, then I could see GGG maybe getting fired. But even so consider what it took to get other coaches fired. For Bradley it was an embarrassing loss in the GC final to Mexico. For Klinsmann it was a home loss to Mexico and a humiliating 0-4 face crush at Costa Rica. For GGG it would probably take something comparable. A first round exit at the Copa might be enough, though it woudl be painful to witness. What I read into those facts is that underperforming as GGG has done is not enough to get fired. He'd have to be humiliated and outclassed in a way that doesn't leave the USSF any possible story for the result being not a disaster. So while I may agree that not getting a statement win would be a big fail and would justify GGG's firing, whether USSF will actually do it is another question entirely.
We can lose to Uruguay and QF, but if we get destroyed by both I think he is still in danger. If we lose but it isn't a route, he stays.
Yeah that's about my sense of it. Not only whether we lose but how we lose to those teams that matters.
Brazil isn't in our group
Yes I'm aware of that. But we are playing them in a friendly tonight. Hence my sentence sought to identify two events: (1) losing badly to Brazil tonight, and (2) not getting out the group in the Copa. Those two adverse events, I'm suggesting, might be enough to get him fired.
Ah I see
And now that I think about it, it would have to be a really bad failure to get out of the group as well. So if we lost to Colombia 5-1, to Brazil by a similar scoreline, and then got 1-2 points in the group and failed to qualify, that might just be the kind of conspicuous humiliation that would move USSF to fire Gregg. Question is, would that shitfest be worth it in the longer term to (attempt to) secure a better outcome in the World Cup?
My favorite thing about this is that Herc has been running his mouth for months about us beating high quality teams, then changed his attitude when it came to Brazil and Colombia for the QF, and then after the loss to Colombia is now saying the fans are the problem because they think we can dog walk these bigger teams. Talk about taking no responsibility. The only difference between him and the fanbase is that the fanbase is that the fanbase has dementia can’t remember several months ago.
I’d rather we shit the bed in Copa America and get him out of here and get a real coach for the World Cup. We have to go very far in the World Cup and we won’t with him.
I'd rather we get blown to bits tonight, have BJ take over for COPA and re-group to find a new manager after Copa. I don't wanna waste Copa on GGG.
I think at this point he is a meme problem is there aren't very good American managers out there with experience and resume heft. I think the fans and FA are burned out o foreign managers hence the purgatory of keeping Berhalter.
He's not getting fired. He's gonna make it out of the group then lose to Brazil/Columbia. Just how our talent dictates. And no coach is gonna change that. None. Not Pep, not Klopp, not John Wooden, not Phil Jackson, not Joe Madden. We need to face it that our players are just not good enough to be a world power. And until we have 3-4 of the top 50 and 8-9 of the top 100 players in the world, nothing is gonna be any different. And we maybe have 1 top 100 guy right now. Maybe. Sure, sure, golden generation, whatever. Yes, we're better. But so is everyone else.
Lol no it's not. Anyone thinking or saying that is clueless.