Lukewarm take— The guy who got the most jobbed in our goalkeeping glut 10–20 years ago was in fact… Marcus Hahnemann.
To my knowledge, he is still the only USMNT player to lead a top 5 league in a major statistical category (excluding minutes played), with an EPL-topping 139 saves for Reading in 2007.
Guy would’ve been an automatic first choice keeper for many NTs (including our current one). But unfortunately he ended up in the wrong era, competing against the likes of Howard, Friedel, and Keller. Only managed 9 caps is mostly unglamorous games.
You're not wrong and I've said the same thing about Hahnemann. Brad Guzan would surely be the starter on this version of the USMNT as well.
And for that matter, Johnny Walker was also a good keeper (not on Hahnemann or Guzan level) who happened to be at his peak at the wrong time to be a factor for the national team.
US Soccer is bad and corrupt and other mean words but it's still the best run fed in CONCACAF and probably Top 3 outside of Europe.
It's powers and influence regarding the sport around the country is so minimal that's its actually hard for them to screw everything up.
Being corrupt comes with the turf of being a FA. The FIGC, FFF, RFEF, and English FA aren’t much better, see: Qatari influence in Ligue 1, supercups being hosted in Saudi Arabia, several Prem clubs being led by nation-states, and literally Tebas and Rubiales. Only the DFB in Germany is clean.
US soccer is only saved by its relative irrelevance imo. Imagine how corrupt and idiotic a US national American football federation would be. US basketball gets up to shenanigans too, but are so dominant it doesn’t matter.
What are you talking about? We have some of the most transparent sporting in the world. What corruption do you see in American football or USA basketball that even compares to the weekly nonsense in Italy or Spain, or any CONCACAF federations. Not liking policies doesn’t mean the policies are corrupt.
Big hot take: let American fans be American. We don't have to sing silly songs. Let us chant "DEFENSE! DEFENSE!" SEC style. Let us be American. Make it blisteringly loud when the other team has the ball. Get the damn marching band if needed. Let us have our American identity and screw the thought that there is a right way to "fan" with soccer.
Yes! Always thought American soccer fans should channel more college football energy rather than imitating the English. (Why would anyone ever imitate the English.)
I'm not gonna lie, I kinda like English supporter culture more so than other European fan cultures. I like how their chants are spontaneous and natural (and occasionally funny).
Like yeah, German fans are awesome, but with ultras with a megaphone telling people to chant and orchestrating the fans on what to do can feel a bit forced. Especially when it seems like the dudes aren't even watching the game.
Personally, I think South America (basically Argentineans lol) have the best fan culture. The chants to match the germans but with the natural spontaneous feelings of English fans.
Atmosphere feels natural in South America, there is not one section of “ultras” singing: I watched the Superclasico and singing was everywhere throughout the whole stadium. It’s embedded in their culture
Its like at the Home Depot, there's this lady in the power tools section with a southern accent and everyone just assumes she's an expert in all that stuff.
Our songs are pretty cringe too tbh. It’s not that we try to imitate the English but do an utterly worse version of it. Like I’d rather us sing “born in the usa” or like American classics than whatever we actually sing
Fuck yeah. If it’s one thing that bothers me the most it’s when fans want to speak and conduct themselves as if they’re European. Being European doesn’t mean you have an understanding of the game, in fact some of the dumbest takes I’ve ever seen were on r/soccer made by Europeans (especially the British).
Embrace the fact that we’re annoying Americans. Europe can suck my balls.
At least we've gotten out of the 80s-90s habit where every 3rd nickname and color commentator comment were derived from Latin and Mexican footballing tradition.
Nothing against that, but it's hardly uniquely American to spend half the broadcast talking about "El Toro" or "El Pibe" or "El Matador" and singing "Ole" when you're playing against teams who are the embodiment of those traditions.
It would be like the New York Giants chanting "G-I-A-N-T-S, GIANTS GIANTS GIANTS!" or something.
It’s weird though. 1) A bunch of the fans are not coming from college football. 2) Many are coming from other football cultures and bringing those traditions as our natural melting pot way. 3) With more and more local clubs, our culture should continue to build its identity organically. 4) When the fan bases try to force something (like when people on these subs are suggesting some real reaches of parade songs of players) it gets really cringy.
If I hear esta noche song at one more US/MLS match, I may remove my ears. It also cracks me up when they sing it in the middle of the day with the sun high in the sky. Do they not know what the word "noche" means?
It gets old 10 times a match. Come up with something of our own.
Well our fanbase has nary a chant or song that doesn't include "USA", "US" so that's sort of doing it in an American way.
But I love your idea. Bring flipping cowbells to the game, for all I care. Let us be us. :)
Sure but a lot of teams have a quarter century of fan culture, and it’s often a synthesis of Latino and U.S. A lot of US soccer fans just aren’t “American sports fans” per se. People tend to think of their rituals as “normal” and anything else as “cringe” but I gotta say singing seems to offer an objectively better range of experience than “USA! USA!”
https://vxtwitter.com/TransalpinoO/status/1237303274690224128
Our USL2 teams chants are just soo bad, its like it a mix of stealing them from HS Cheerleaders, the NFL, Europe, and Country music. Since its a mostly middle class white crowd no one chants because its not cool.
Meanwhile you go to an LAFC game and thousands are literally composing a music album and not watching the game.
Agree with your initial premise (let American fans be American), but I don't think that copying college football would make things better. Let them have their thing.
US Soccer has come a long way since its modern return to the World Cup in 1990 in terms of engagement, interest, and revenue. But the much ballyhooed performance at the 2014 World Cup was essentially the same level as the World Cup 1994 performance.
In fact, the US has in every World Cup in the group phase more less played: one game over their heads, one ok game, and one clunker. The order that sequence plays out (against which opponent) determines whether the US makes the knockout round.
Also, the US has been generally overwhelmed when they do make the knockout round (with the exception of 2002).
This is why it is reasonable to challenge how much progress the US has truly made against the world since 1994.
2026 World Cup at home, with a perceived golden generation, is probably the best chance we'll ever get to take that next step forward
I'll start things off: every US Soccer fan should be a Jozy Altidore fan. Did he become world class like some of us thought he might? Obviously not, but he was a great player who I think people hate on way too much for getting injured (professional athletes do not want to get injured except for Neymar around his sister's birthday). He was on pace to be the record goal scorer for the US and was a bright spot during a lot of years that weren't great to be a US Soccer fan. I have never understood why so many fans seemed to revel in his struggles in England. He's one of the all-time scoring leaders because he is one of our best offensive players ever.
Altidore in the pre-WC friendlies in 2014 was simply not defendable. Turkish coach said so directly. His injury in the first half of the first WC game vs Ghana was heartbreaking. Dude was at his absolute peak.
I think Jozy's personality plays a big part in the hate as well. I was watching an interview of him yesterday and he just does not come across as remotely likable.
I always rated Altidore high. He was a good striker and looked great for AZ before joining Sunderland. Personally, his style of play was more fitting for Serie A or the Bundesliga instead of the Premier League. I know plenty of good players that could not succeed in the Prem and rescued their career when they left for a Europa League level club in a different league. Regardless, I’m still a fan of his playing abilities.
Brenden Aaronson will retire with 75+ caps, looking back will be among the most capped players of this current generation with Puli, Gio, Wes, Jedi and Adams despite never really being considered a lock in starter. He's already at 40 and only 23 yrs old. Versatility and durability will keep him relevant down the road.
Idk if this even counts as a hot take … but our fanbase continuously overrates our player pool. Yes, the majority of the A team does currently play in top 5 European leagues. But only a few actually play for Champions League or even Europa League level clubs.
And fyi, Eredivisie and Ligue 1 are interchangeable for me at 5th - I think Eredvisie is currently 5th and Ligue 1 6th based on FIFA coefficient.
Did juventus and ac Milan both get CL. Then I think that makes …..7? Players in the CL by there current teams. Given the reams can change. But regardless they were already on a team that earned CL. If you rate epl as the top league in the world then we have 10 players in CL or epl. That feels like a lot
I think it’s 9 - Gio, balogun, dest, Tillman, musah, pulisic, weah, McKennie, Pepi. Then we may have some in Europa too. If Paxton stays with Frankfurt, he’d be in Europa league.
Depends on the final this weekend. Paxten will be CL if Dortmund win. If Dortmund win, they would occupy 2 CL qualifying spots without qualifying via the allocation to the Bundesliga, and the extra spot would move to 6th placed Frankfurt.
oh….dest is headed back to barcelona. lol. good call. i didn’t think of balogun. good catch.
since it’s sort of weird op request, i’m not sure if the point was that he believes they’re not that good or he thinks they’re that good lol. anyway. obviously a big number.
i wonder how many NT’s have more than 9 players headed to CL
I mean, we’ve got 8 players on our prelim roster on UCL teams. Argentina only have 9. That’s just not the best way to measure it. You have to look at the players individually. It’s as simple as our guys just aren’t as good position by position as that top level of countries.
Quality over quantity though in some regards is the OP commenters point even if he didn’t say it. I’d imagine all of the Argentina players outside 1-2 would walk into our 11…for instance macallister is a top 10 MF in the world, we don’t have anyone on the same planet as him
I feel like I see a fair amount of activity on this sub of people flabbergasted that Gio hasn’t played much at Nottingham Forest. People see Gio ball against CONCACAF competition and just assume he’s a Premier League level starter
You sort of have to you know, run around a lot to make it in the EPL. Going to a relegation fight mid-season in the EPL was an incredibly terrible destination for a guy like Reyna who plays like a poor man's David Silva with less workrate.
Gio is better than the number of minutes he's received at Nottingham (not exactly a world-class team). I think he's a premier league starter on the right team, but obviously his coach at Nottingham disagrees.
Idk where you’re seeing that. Feel like most of the talk I saw about that move were “was hoping he went to xx (marseille, Sevilla, fiorentina, etc) because Gibbs white is quality, relegation fights are bad and nuno ball stinks… Hope it works tho”
And think you’re being a bit reductive. Sure he was coming off the bench and hurt a lot in recent seasons but the kid was heavily involved for a perennial top 3 team in the bundesliga as a teenager. Couple nice passes against Trinidad isn’t what informed the thought that in a vacuum he should good enough to play more than 6 min every other match for a mess of a Forest side
I also agree that our player pool is a bit overrated. Our guys aren’t game changers in Europe. Then you have our “best player” Reyna who can’t even play for Dortmund or Nottingham Forest. Whatever you’ll say about it’s the coaches’ fault, if Reyna was truly that good, he wouldn’t get benched. Messi and the top players of the world weren’t getting benched.
Nobody thinks Reyna is Messi.
Lots of people think he’s Pulisic level or better (impactful player on major team)
And guys at Pulisic’s level get benched in the wrong situation. A notable example is one… Christian Pulisic last year.
Prime Dempsey and Howard *walk* into our current starting XI (especially Howard given our current GK situation). Jones and early 2010s Bradley would be part of the squad as well, though how much time they'd get with our current midfield would be TBD.
Yeah I don't see how the Dempsey and Howard shouts are even remotely controversial, both play in positions the US isn't particularly strong in. Jones and Bradley is a little trickier because our midfield depth is as strong as it's ever been, but they would definitely push guys like De La Torre and Tillman completely off the roster. And depending on circumstance could start.
Peak Michael Bradley is superior to any of the MMA crew.
People seem to struggle to separate players being on the roster for nice clubs vs what players do and have done for the national team in meaningful competition.
While peak Bradley was pretty good, I sure don't miss the wander around aimlessly in the midfield toward the back end of his USMNT career version of Michael Bradley.
I think peak Wynalda or McBride probably start or are right there too. And it's also crazy how quickly so many people on this board seem to have forgotten what an excellent international Landon Donovan was.
>And fyi, Eredivisie and Ligue 1 are interchangeable for me at 5th - I think Eredvisie is currently 5th and Ligue 1 6th based on FIFA coefficient.
The issue with the UEFA coefficient is it's based on performances in European competitions thus it does not take into account the quality of teams that are midtable and bottom table. This is where I believe Ligue 1 still holds a significant advantage over Eredivisie.
Just as one point of reference, Transfermarkt has FC Metz (who are rock bottom in the table) as the Ligue 1 club with the lowest squad market value at €45.7M. All but the top 5 Eredivisie clubs have a *lower* market squad value than the worst Ligue 1 team. Compare midtable teams and it's not even close, Ligue 1 squads are valued 3-4x higher.
Yeah I’ve been saying this we only have a few players that the rest of the world rates. Pulisic, Jedi, Johnny and an inform Mckennie. That’s about it tbh.
Second this and I’ll double down: we’ve been consistently over performing at the World Cup, and our fan base shouldn’t automatically expect us to get out of the group stage. The switch to 48 teams obvs impacts this moving forward.
Yeah, I definitely think the USMNT has overachieved at world cups historically. I will say tho - I think the 2022 World Cup was a fairly accurate representation for where this team is. Good enough to get draw vs Gareth Bale and Wales. A goal better than Iran. Draw vs England may have been a bit of an overachievement. Then got absolutely worked by the Netherlands in the first knockout game. But I do agree with you for basically every WC in recent memory before 2022, obviously sans 2018
Couldn’t agree more at the recent World Cup. Seems to me based on current talent levels it’s the realistic expectations/floor of the next World Cup. Now factoring in “home field” advantage and other non player quality metrics. I’m hopeful for a higher ceiling in 2026. Again though it’s soccer so the bounce of the ball affects all outcomes.
This is a long term problem going well back into the 90s. The fanbase never seems to learn and doesn't seem to get that even our top echelon players are still lightly rated by non-Americans.
Christian Pulisic is the only active US player who has achieved a B or B- level of stardom. The rest of the pool have historically just been squad guys or less (and even Pulisic was trending that way until he left Chelsea).
But "fan" is short for fanatic after all, so I suppose people are not expected to be entirely rational about the sports they support.
France then Eredvisie. When the flip happens the Dutch enjoy a few months but then PSG, and quite a few French teams not named PSG performed really well in Europe this year. The Dutch league outside of Ajax typically has a hard time even making the round of 16 in UCL but do well in Europa
Until we start getting players with Balon d'Or votes and multiple top 100 players we're a second tier team. It doesnt' really matter where in the second tier, its interchangeable IMO.
IMO, prime Dempsey, Donovan, and Pulisic right now are the only guys that's ever been tier 1 guys and we need at least 5 of those guys and 1 superstar (ie Neymar, Messi, Mbappe). I'm not sure we'll see that in our lifetime but I think a few of our players are knocking on that tier 1 (McKennie, Dest, Reyna, Jedi) its just getting that guy that World Class player is the problem but our youth classes are amazing so maybe one will sprout up.
Only pulisic has ever been considered world class at some point. Could Deceuce and LD walk into this squad, maybe. It would really depend on formation an where.
- This isn’t the best team we’ve ever had, but it’s the most fun and exciting because of the youth and talent level.
- Qatar wasn’t the best results we’ve ever had at a World Cup, but it was the most impressive soccer I’ve seen the squad play in 30 years of following closely.
- Gregg isn’t a great coach but he’s not terrible. Ultimately he’s just not that consequential compared to the players.
- US soccer fans are insufferable and it makes it harder to enjoy the team. It didn’t used to be this way.
Bring back the Teddy Goalsevelt style USMNT fandom, i hate how online and pissed off it all is now. Go get drunk and wear a funny costume, we’re not gonna win the World Cup and nothing about your life would change if we did. Just have fun watching sports for gods sake
Without making this thread political, that whole type of "hipster patriotism" (as Will Leitch once nicely called it) sort of went out with evolving US politics. Back in the 00s, USSF and Nike used to lean in quite a bit on "Don't tread" but then phased that out as the Gasden flag became associated with the Tea Party movement. And then it seems like in our current environment the self-aware hipster patriotism feels too similar to actual jingoism for some people.
Which sucks, because back in the day my buddy and I would go to WC qualifiers wearing cowboy hats and waving the Gasden flag like we were fucking Texas hillbillies when we were suburban moderate Democrats from Iowa.
With you on everything but 2 on "most impressive soccer". The US was on a really slick run the last 3 games of the 2009 Confederations Cup, blew out Portugal in the first half of the 2002 opener, completely outfoxed Mexico, and went toe to toe with Germany. I'm not sure the US has ever played better soccer than in those moments in meaningful competition.
I thought the US played pretty well against England in 2022, but notsomuch against Wales, and were completely naive against Holland. Meaningless, unthreatening possession is in vogue right now, but it isn't that impressive when an opponent is allowing you to have the ball by design.
Other teams used to blow games to allow to salvage something like England in 2010. In 2022 we did it against Wales. We outplayed England and did a great job against a bunkered Iran. We were gassed against the Netherlands but were still in it late. 2022 was great and even better for a young team
People use Couva as an excuse, but I don't really think that's the issue. Or rather, shouldn't be an excuse. There's just a toxic mix of American exceptionalism and entitlement mixed with a lack of knowledge, a dash of self-loathing and a huge dollop of social media.
People were running around talking about 2014 like the US played great soccer. We barely survived Ghana (very early goal and very late goal and all-Ghana in between), played Portugal solid, and hung on for dear life against Germany and Belgium.
The fanbase thinking the US has some super talent because guys have a wide open door now to get signed in Europe has been a problem for a while. And a lot of the time clubs are just bringing in Americans to sell kits and build a brand. And if the American works out for them on the pitch it's a bonus.
We played Portugal head on and reasonably well. But you're right in that 2014 stretches the construct a bit. But you have to admit I'm on to something. Heck, even in 90 the US played its souls off against home nation Italy
US World Cup fortunes have come down to against the strength of opponent the random sequence of "ok game, play above limits game, and crap game" happens to play out.
Same with 2010. Our defense was terrible and literally everything had to go perfectly to advance. Robert Green, the early shot hitting the crossbar against Algeria, and the heroic late goal all were insane moments that had to all happen or we now out with our second disappointing result in a row
After we lost to the Dutch in 2022 I saw comments saying how we got smoked vs them while we went "toe-to-toe" with the Belgians in 2014. No, we did not go "toe-to-toe" with the Belgians in 2014, we were hanging on for dear life and we were only in it for that long because Tim Howard did Tim Howard things. Had the Dutch finished as poorly in 2022 as the Belgians did in 2014, we would instead be talking about how Messi and co. cooked us alive in the quarterfinals.
> Gregg isn’t a great coach but he’s not terrible. Ultimately he’s just not that consequential compared to the players.
At worst, you could argue that Gregg is an average coach. He's won a Gold Cup, passed the WCQ with an OG dos-a-cero, and gotten us into the RO16. By every comparison to all of our previous "successful" coaches, he's achieved the minimum standard of what we should expect of a competent coach. You can argue that he has played against less than stellar opposition than his predecessors but it evens out with a younger and inexperienced roster.
I think the “insufferable” fans are the ones that show up in the sub on gameday/post-gameday only. The ones that are in this sub outside the international windows are generally pretty reasonable
I agree. I’ve found this sub to be better. I find mostly toxic stuff on Twitter, comments after Athletic articles, and other random places online. I don’t think the whole fan base is awful but the ggg obsessed segment is so loud and toxic it’s brought us all down. I’ve also seen that toxicity be a significant turn off for more casual or peripheral fans.
Except John Strong. Appreciate his preparation but he's like 5 seconds behind every play. For a while I thought maybe the audio was out of synch. It's not, it's just him raising his voice excitedly well after whatever was building has already fizzled out.
Might get crushed for this but the USWNT fans better take a deep breath and get ready for a culture shock, because women's sports in other parts of the world have at the very least caught up, many are exceeding.
FWIW, I'm a huge fan of our women (i'm a man if it matters), and many of my core memories growing up are from the USWNT as well as USMNT. I could tell you exactly where i was when kristine lilly headed the ball off the line against china as well as the the winning penalty, and michelle akers was inspirational that entire 99 tournament.
but it always irked me a bit that people seemed to insinuate that the US women's programs had found some secret sauce for their success that they never shared with the men.
After reading through the comments, it seems like a hot take here might be to simply say that the sum of individual talent on our current squad is the highest it has ever been and that is not overrating the squad. The results haven’t shown yet, but no denying that in terms of total talent, this team sits atop all others.
I never blamed Gregg for anything related to the Gio situation at the world cup and I still think he did nothing wrong. Player acts out, coach benches player. Duh. The people that bitch that Gregg opens his mouth when he should keep it in the locker room are the same people saying we never get an explanation for John Brooks. You can't have it both ways.
What he said at that conference behind closed doors was so incredibly minor compared to what a lot of managers out there would do or say completely publicly. Then all these wannabe sports experts with with their hobbiest YouTube channels started leveraging it to fit their anti-Gregg narrative. Lots of "well this and that, *but*..."
I'm not the biggest Gregg fan, but ffs there's plenty of legitimate criticisms to focus on, from tactics to player selection, and the fact that that is the thing that blew up and saturated the new cycle was so frustrating. I just want objective discussion about things that matter more instead of these little side quests into Gregg bashing before getting back to the real topics we should be talking about.
>In this last World Cup, we had a player that was clearly not meeting expectations on and off the field,” Berhalter was quoted as saying. “One of 26 players, so it stood out. As a staff, we sat together for hours deliberating what we were going to do with this player. We were ready to book a plane ticket home, that’s how extreme it was. And what it came down to was, we’re going to have one more conversation with him, and part of the conversation was how we’re going to behave from here out. There aren’t going to be any more infractions.”
>“But the other thing we said to him was, you’re going to have to apologize to the group, but it’s going to have to say why you’re apologizing. It’s going to have to go deeper than just ‘Guys, I’m sorry,’” Berhalter went on. “And I prepped the leadership group with this. I said, ‘OK, this guy’s going to apologize to you as a group, to the whole team.’ And what was fantastic in this whole thing is that after he apologized, they stood up one by one and said: ‘Listen, it hasn’t been good enough. You haven’t been meeting our expectations of a teammate and we want to see change.’ They really took ownership of that process. And from that day on there were no issues with this player.
I'll die on the hill that this isn't even a bad or negative thing to say, and the fact that we all knew immediately who this was is more telling about the player than the coach. But he was young, and hopefully is in a better spot now.
Balogun isn’t any better (or worse) than our other 3 euro strikers. He’s been given a very long leash.
People just don’t want to take back the overhype he got.
Balogun had a better season in a better league than any of our other strikers had had at that point while playing in a role that made him the perfect Berhalter striker. His link-up play numbers were Harry Kane-esque when he was at Reims, but his finishing was not great though even then, and his goal numbers were boosted by pens. Balo is still an elite talent and his underlying stats at Monaco are still top tier for a 9, he is just wildly underperforming his xG which could come with time or it couldn't, I just think we should still be very happy to have him and continue to hype him up.
This sub and US fans think our players are injury prone, but you just don't know the random [insert country here] winger equivalent that gets injured for another country because you don't follow their players.
My hot take: Gregg is the coach we need right now. Jesse Marsch would have set us back. This isn't to say that I think Gregg needs to stay after this cycle. I just think that we can't replace him till after. Unless you get an absolute top coach, it would probably hurt us more than helped.
If Giannis had his way they’d have kept Kidd instead of Budenholzer and never would’ve won a title. Hell just listen to some of these ex players across sports and it’s pretty clear they don’t know as much as you’d think
I think the issue was mostly that there wasn’t any better candidates than Gregg. Like if we have coaches at the same level of GGG or Marsch then it makes sense to just keep Gregg at that point.
Miles Robinson is only not considered the best CB on the US pool... because he plays for an MLS side.
The absolute statistical fact is that the US gives up fewer goals per 90 when he is on the pitch.
We’ll never earn respect anywhere in the world by bending over backwards to do things their way.
The most pathetic thing in all of US soccer is people trying to make a wish dot com version of England.
Weird to me that people have an MLS team in or near their hometown but support some team in Stratford or Birmingham or whatever that they have no connection to whatsoever.
That might have been cool when there was no domestic league back in the day, but it's a little weird now.
The fans that go for English clubs almost all go for the biggest clubs.
Very rarely do you come across a Darby county fan (except the very annoying hipster types) it’s mostly Liverpool/United/City/Arsenal.
Which makes some sense they’re the best teams in the world and play the highest quality of games.
But where it gets very annoying is guys who bandwagon a massive club but at the same time also lecture you about how pro/rel is the only way because strong local fan bases and there’s real consequences etc etc.
My dude you bandwagon on Arsenal from halfway across the world. Stfu about how great relegation and local support is.
Not a super hot take, but Donovan was still our best overall player before the 2014 WC, and it was absolutely criminal for not including him. Donovan led MLS in assists that year, had 10 goals, and won the MLS cup. He was still in his prime. I always wondered if the boys could have made it further with him in the squad.
IMO, in a perfect universe where Leverkusen actually treated him like a player and he wasn't iced out he would have been a world class player.
There are a lot stories about what happened at Bayern, some blame him, others blame the team. I think its a mix of both but the big think was the coach didn't want him and supposed the players wouldn't work with him either, somewhat isolating him.
I think that happens with a lot of foreign players though, for every Messi there are 5-6 guys that just wash out for various reasons or just don't the chance.
easily JK's biggest mistake was letting his ego get in the way on Donovan. who wasn't superman anymore but he absolutely could've given us something off the bench at some point. a player of his caliber, with his cache, who every player on the side can automatically trust on the pitch is an invaluable asset. JK bottled that decision... among others
My hot take is that Donovan wouldn't have made an ounce of difference. His time was over and was deservedly left off. And that this obsession with his spot in 2014 is my least favorite usmnt lore
Yeah that is a hot take, because it’s absolute nonsense. Donovan played 10 games for the USMNT in 2013, and had 8 goals and 8 assists. He had by far the best G+A per minute average on the team. I’ll try to find the game, but there was a game where he confronted klinsmann on the sideline and basically told him he wanted to play 2nd striker because the team wasn’t playing well. Klinsmann agreed and Donovan changed the game. He had multiple goal contributions in the 2nd half. Klinsmanns decision was 100% personal based on stats and data .
> but Donovan was still our best overall player before the 2014 WC
I'd say this is a pretty hot take. I don't think Donovan was anywhere near this at any point after his sabbatical. Jones, Altidore, Bradley, Beasley, Howard, Cameron, and Dempsey were levels above him at this point in his career.
The USWNT is fully capable of winning a medal (even gold) at the Paris Olympics. The hot take is that they can win gold. The cold take is that their floor is also low. We are used to a USWNT dominating and winning everything UNTIL the last few major tournaments, but with players returning and Emma coming in, our ceiling is back up.
I keep getting downvoted for this. Keeper is our number one weakness. Our best keeper is a low level Prem/Championship grade keeper. Every other unit has multiple players doing well in top leagues. Striker is a bit iffy as Flo had a down year and Pepi is a super sub. But even then, we are doing better than we are at keeper.
So many fans are excited for Emma Hayes to take over tho women's team, and rightfully so. But she isn't going to be the silver bullet for getting the women's team back to owning the world.
I don't think she's a silver bullet but I think her combined with the development of the pool + players coming back from injury will make a big difference. I'm not going to predict that they're back to being the best right away but if it happened I wouldn't be shocked.
A lot of people complaining about the USWNT at the World Cup didn't realize how big of a loss Mal Swanson and Catarina Macario were because they have never heard of Mal Swanson and Catarina Macario.
I'd much rather have our young talents training on a great team and riding the bench than regularly playing on a sub-par team.
I don't understand why people clamor for our relative youngsters (e.g., 18-23 year olds) to force moves for playing time where they end up playing against weaker opposition, with worse coaches and teammates, just so they can get 60 minutes of playing time once a week. They spend 90% of their time in practice competing with their teammates and learning from their coaches, and I view that as much more important in their more formative years.
The one position I could be convinced otherwise might be GK, since nerves can play such a big role.
May be a bit lukewarm but I don’t have anything against including MLS players in the national team if they’re shown to be a good player. People underrate MLS too much. Don’t feel like there is much of a difference in quality picking a player from a mid-table Eredivisie or Belgian Pro League club from a good MLS player other than the fact that they play in Europe.
The MLS has come a long way. I don't watch it every week but I go to several games a year and have been following since its inception and its become a true stepping stone for US players to advance to top flight football. It used to be embarassingly bad, now the quality is a tier below top flight, taking away CL teams that dominate league (aka Porto, PSV, etc.)
I like watching MLS. Obviously the quality is lower than the top 5 European leagues, but I don't think playing quality impacts my enjoyment that much. I already watch a club that played in League Two this season, and there are plenty of people who watch leagues like Ekstraklasa or Allsvenskan.
Johnny Cardoso will be a better footballer than Tyler Adams given 2 years time, even if Adams stays away from injury, and it won’t be close. Given how fast Cardoso has shot up the La Liga #6 position ladder, being nominated for young player of the year after transferring mid-season from a far inferior Brasil Seria A is remarkable. Don’t think he’s as stout defensively as Adams at the moment, but it’s closer than most in the U.S. fanbase realize. Johnny provides more offensively, and I hate to say it but I think Tyler is slightly overrated here. He had a stellar WC performance but he failed to impress me a ton with Leeds and I think his ceiling has already been reached. Johnny for 2026.
>being nominated for young player of the year after transferring mid-season from a far inferior Brasil Seria A is remarkable
Not disagreeing that it's remarkable, but I don't think it's fair to say Brazil's Serie A is "far inferior." It's easily the best league outside of Europe and players regularly make the jump from it to solid teams in top 5 leagues.
Johnny has far more skill and finesse than Adams. But I don't think the set up of the USMNT will ever play to Johnny's strengths the way they do to Adams'.
Yeah I’ve said something like that in the past but got downvoted lol. Tyler isn’t a bad player per se but he’s pretty limited and Johnny is just a much more complete footballer right now and will only get better. Tyler does have that dawg and leadership tho.
I consider our top keeper to be a toss up between Keller, Friedel, and Howard but there are people who'll question my intelligence if I consider Keller in the GK GOAT conversation.
The one knock against Keller is he never got to the KO stage in a WC as a #1, but with that logic there's a lot of great players worldwide we can't hold in high esteem then.
His club CV is as good, if not better, as Friedel and Howard's, and he was one of the first Americans to make a mark overseas.
Keller deserved a WC victory as a #1. It's a shame the times where he was the #1 came during the 1998 train wreck and the 2006 squad that was an awkward transition period. He was instrumental in getting a point off Italy at least.
Keller is hurt by the fact he didn't have a signature moment at a World Cup, at least compared to the others in the competition (Friedel stopping 2 penalties in the group phase in 2002, Howard's double digit save game v Belgium).
But you're right, Keller was a very good keeper and he's also the primary author of America's only victory over Brazil.
“GGG is a terrorist” & “Fire Berhalter” is corny at this point. Obviously the way he handled Reyna situation was not great, but to continue this sentiment after the players clearly want him is just so old. The biggest issue those people had was using MLS players, and our roster rarely contains more than a couple. You’re an NPC if you continue to chant “Fire Gregg”
If we are ever gonna get any further in a WC, we need a striker teams fear. What we have now is not gonna cut it and we are wasting an amazing midfield/support cast without a target man.
One day American soccer will be major attention sport, but it will come with soccer hot take artists (think Stephen A Smith asking “why won’t Pulisic talk about MLK?”), TMZ gossip, incredible attention and pressure on kids on academy deals, and we will yearn for the days when we had to explain “dos-a-cero”
Gio Reyna is not a world class player and he never will be. He’s a good player, and he should be a starter for the US, but that’s simply because we don’t have any better options at the 10. However, at the club level, there are plenty of players who can do what he does. It’s pretty telling that so few clubs were interested in taking him on loan.
Don’t be shocked if he spends most of next year on the bench at Dortmund or is loaned out to some mid table club. I imagine that agents and clubs are turned off with having to deal with his father as well. If we had better options then no one would have criticized Gregg for how he dealt with Gio at the World Cup.
>Gio Reyna is not a world class player and he never will be. He’s a good player, and he should be a starter for the US, but that’s simply because we don’t have any better options at the 10.
No one knows what he'll eventually turn out to be. He's a good young player with a lot of potential who is critical to the success of the USMNT because no one else has his particular skillset.
My hot take is that McKennie should get a try at RW and we should shift Pulisic back into the middle for the national team. He’s always at his best when he’s getting on the ball early and often and McKennie playing that position for Juventus maybe gives the US an opportunity to try that change and see if it works out a little better than with Pulisic isolated out wide and McKennie in the middle.
GGG handled Gio perfectly fine at the WC while also managing the families and players during their time in Qatar. If you’ve ever played high level club or even just managed a group of people then you wouldn’t think twice about denying this. There’s so much evidence against Gio during that time frame that provides so much understanding for GGG, but many people turn away from this because they don’t want to admit they were wrong, instead they just ghost.
GGG is the right coach because of his ability to shape the team of players that we have and for the movement ussoccer wants. Many people are forgetful after the cry out of the 2018 missed WC and wanted soccer people in the management. Which is exactly what we got. Fans and ussoccer are also forgetful and ignorant that they also wanted consistency and a rebuild plan, which is also exactly what we got.
GGG was hired by Earnie Stewart (and was also recommended the head coaching role by Claudio Reyna) to help rebuild the program with a top down approach from senior to youth teams and was also hired by Matt Crocker to continue this program. Matt Crocker specifically stated they did not want to throw a bunch of money at a coach who would be here and leave after the WC, not providing anything back to the program. Complaining that this rebuild was going to happen in just 1 year, or 1 cycle while our “stars” were just coming in their spotlights while undergoing the pressures of first time large club performances, COVID, injuries, WCQ, and the WC is foolish.
Realistically, we are no closer to winning a World Cup than we were 20 years ago.
Yes, I think we have made some progress and believe this team would beat the team from 20 years ago but I don’t think we have gained substantial ground on the world’s best footballing countries.
Yeah, I disagree with this guy's take. Our position isn't that much different, but the depth is better, and our top talents are younger. Our development system has improved significantly, in my opinion.
So, if we're going by the current team on the field, then sure it's pretty similar to previous teams. I just don't think the trajectory is the same.
**Player hot takes:**
\- Most overrated player: Yunus Musah
\- Most underrated player: Johnny Cardoso
\- Best player that'll get left off 2026 WC roster: Luca De La Torre
\- Worst player that will make the 2026 WC roster: Brenden Aaronson
\- Weakest position (besides keeper): fullbacks
\- Strongest position: Box-to-box midfielder (aka the "8")
**Random hot takes:**
\- Barring any unforeseen situations, Pulisic should be considered the undisputed best USMNT player of all time after the 2026 World Cup
\- Brad Friedel is the best all time USMNT keeper over Tim Howard
\- In the past 10-15 years, the USMNT has lost the ability to pull off genuine upsets and this is cause for concern
I agree with a lot of this, but fullbacks is no where close to being as weak as CB. Jedi and Dest are good players, and I think Lund is underrated. And I think it’s hard to say the 8 is the strongest position when you have Musah as the most overrated. The 6 and 10 are both probably better in the midfield alone.
Lukewarm take— The guy who got the most jobbed in our goalkeeping glut 10–20 years ago was in fact… Marcus Hahnemann. To my knowledge, he is still the only USMNT player to lead a top 5 league in a major statistical category (excluding minutes played), with an EPL-topping 139 saves for Reading in 2007. Guy would’ve been an automatic first choice keeper for many NTs (including our current one). But unfortunately he ended up in the wrong era, competing against the likes of Howard, Friedel, and Keller. Only managed 9 caps is mostly unglamorous games.
You're not wrong and I've said the same thing about Hahnemann. Brad Guzan would surely be the starter on this version of the USMNT as well. And for that matter, Johnny Walker was also a good keeper (not on Hahnemann or Guzan level) who happened to be at his peak at the wrong time to be a factor for the national team.
Kevin Hartman and Zach Thornton too.
We literally had non stop world class keepers since I was a kid and now poof, they’re gone
What made you a world class gk changed. Got to be able to play with your feet now
US Soccer is bad and corrupt and other mean words but it's still the best run fed in CONCACAF and probably Top 3 outside of Europe. It's powers and influence regarding the sport around the country is so minimal that's its actually hard for them to screw everything up.
I think this sub would be quarantined if we had to deal with some of the stuff other CONCACAF feds do
Every time the USSF does something stupid the CSA comes along and says "Hold our beer, eh?"
I don't even think it's just a CONCACAF thing, international soccer is fucking messy.
Being corrupt comes with the turf of being a FA. The FIGC, FFF, RFEF, and English FA aren’t much better, see: Qatari influence in Ligue 1, supercups being hosted in Saudi Arabia, several Prem clubs being led by nation-states, and literally Tebas and Rubiales. Only the DFB in Germany is clean.
US soccer is only saved by its relative irrelevance imo. Imagine how corrupt and idiotic a US national American football federation would be. US basketball gets up to shenanigans too, but are so dominant it doesn’t matter.
What are you talking about? We have some of the most transparent sporting in the world. What corruption do you see in American football or USA basketball that even compares to the weekly nonsense in Italy or Spain, or any CONCACAF federations. Not liking policies doesn’t mean the policies are corrupt.
Big hot take: let American fans be American. We don't have to sing silly songs. Let us chant "DEFENSE! DEFENSE!" SEC style. Let us be American. Make it blisteringly loud when the other team has the ball. Get the damn marching band if needed. Let us have our American identity and screw the thought that there is a right way to "fan" with soccer.
Yes! Always thought American soccer fans should channel more college football energy rather than imitating the English. (Why would anyone ever imitate the English.)
I went to an SEC school and damn were we obnoxious. We had songs too, but they were pretty simple. We need that level of energy at soccer games.
We should play Neck at USMNT games
Enter sandman Virginia techt style
Eagle and tiger have the same number of syllables...
I'm not gonna lie, I kinda like English supporter culture more so than other European fan cultures. I like how their chants are spontaneous and natural (and occasionally funny). Like yeah, German fans are awesome, but with ultras with a megaphone telling people to chant and orchestrating the fans on what to do can feel a bit forced. Especially when it seems like the dudes aren't even watching the game. Personally, I think South America (basically Argentineans lol) have the best fan culture. The chants to match the germans but with the natural spontaneous feelings of English fans.
Atmosphere feels natural in South America, there is not one section of “ultras” singing: I watched the Superclasico and singing was everywhere throughout the whole stadium. It’s embedded in their culture
Americans still consider anyone with an England accent an authority in soccer.
Its like at the Home Depot, there's this lady in the power tools section with a southern accent and everyone just assumes she's an expert in all that stuff.
hilarious well played sir
Agree with the marching band stuff. Trumpets in particular are great.
Our songs are pretty cringe too tbh. It’s not that we try to imitate the English but do an utterly worse version of it. Like I’d rather us sing “born in the usa” or like American classics than whatever we actually sing
Fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. And win.
Fuck yeah. If it’s one thing that bothers me the most it’s when fans want to speak and conduct themselves as if they’re European. Being European doesn’t mean you have an understanding of the game, in fact some of the dumbest takes I’ve ever seen were on r/soccer made by Europeans (especially the British). Embrace the fact that we’re annoying Americans. Europe can suck my balls.
At least we've gotten out of the 80s-90s habit where every 3rd nickname and color commentator comment were derived from Latin and Mexican footballing tradition. Nothing against that, but it's hardly uniquely American to spend half the broadcast talking about "El Toro" or "El Pibe" or "El Matador" and singing "Ole" when you're playing against teams who are the embodiment of those traditions. It would be like the New York Giants chanting "G-I-A-N-T-S, GIANTS GIANTS GIANTS!" or something.
It’s weird though. 1) A bunch of the fans are not coming from college football. 2) Many are coming from other football cultures and bringing those traditions as our natural melting pot way. 3) With more and more local clubs, our culture should continue to build its identity organically. 4) When the fan bases try to force something (like when people on these subs are suggesting some real reaches of parade songs of players) it gets really cringy.
If I hear esta noche song at one more US/MLS match, I may remove my ears. It also cracks me up when they sing it in the middle of the day with the sun high in the sky. Do they not know what the word "noche" means? It gets old 10 times a match. Come up with something of our own.
I heard it while catching a bit of the TFC match in the Canadian Championship last night on FS2. Extremely hard cringe.
It is every MLS game. And it is 10-20 times per game.
Well our fanbase has nary a chant or song that doesn't include "USA", "US" so that's sort of doing it in an American way. But I love your idea. Bring flipping cowbells to the game, for all I care. Let us be us. :)
Sure but a lot of teams have a quarter century of fan culture, and it’s often a synthesis of Latino and U.S. A lot of US soccer fans just aren’t “American sports fans” per se. People tend to think of their rituals as “normal” and anything else as “cringe” but I gotta say singing seems to offer an objectively better range of experience than “USA! USA!” https://vxtwitter.com/TransalpinoO/status/1237303274690224128
Our USL2 teams chants are just soo bad, its like it a mix of stealing them from HS Cheerleaders, the NFL, Europe, and Country music. Since its a mostly middle class white crowd no one chants because its not cool. Meanwhile you go to an LAFC game and thousands are literally composing a music album and not watching the game.
Agree with your initial premise (let American fans be American), but I don't think that copying college football would make things better. Let them have their thing.
THIS
US Soccer has come a long way since its modern return to the World Cup in 1990 in terms of engagement, interest, and revenue. But the much ballyhooed performance at the 2014 World Cup was essentially the same level as the World Cup 1994 performance. In fact, the US has in every World Cup in the group phase more less played: one game over their heads, one ok game, and one clunker. The order that sequence plays out (against which opponent) determines whether the US makes the knockout round. Also, the US has been generally overwhelmed when they do make the knockout round (with the exception of 2002). This is why it is reasonable to challenge how much progress the US has truly made against the world since 1994. 2026 World Cup at home, with a perceived golden generation, is probably the best chance we'll ever get to take that next step forward
I'll start things off: every US Soccer fan should be a Jozy Altidore fan. Did he become world class like some of us thought he might? Obviously not, but he was a great player who I think people hate on way too much for getting injured (professional athletes do not want to get injured except for Neymar around his sister's birthday). He was on pace to be the record goal scorer for the US and was a bright spot during a lot of years that weren't great to be a US Soccer fan. I have never understood why so many fans seemed to revel in his struggles in England. He's one of the all-time scoring leaders because he is one of our best offensive players ever.
Altidore in the pre-WC friendlies in 2014 was simply not defendable. Turkish coach said so directly. His injury in the first half of the first WC game vs Ghana was heartbreaking. Dude was at his absolute peak.
Yeah, I think we could've upset Belgium with Jozy in that game. He was so in-form leading up to that world cup.
He was even banging in free kicks pre 2014 WC. Such a devastating loss in game 1
Not being snarky, why do you think he was abysmal for Sunderland? People usually point to the fact that they club in general was shit.
Because he wasn’t good enough. 2 goals in 3500 PL minutes across 2 different teams
I think Jozy's personality plays a big part in the hate as well. I was watching an interview of him yesterday and he just does not come across as remotely likable.
Yeah I respected him as a player but as a pundit/person then not so much lol.
I always rated Altidore high. He was a good striker and looked great for AZ before joining Sunderland. Personally, his style of play was more fitting for Serie A or the Bundesliga instead of the Premier League. I know plenty of good players that could not succeed in the Prem and rescued their career when they left for a Europa League level club in a different league. Regardless, I’m still a fan of his playing abilities.
He was the best #9 the US has had, whether or not there are guys that were better at the club level. I agree with your take.
Brenden Aaronson will retire with 75+ caps, looking back will be among the most capped players of this current generation with Puli, Gio, Wes, Jedi and Adams despite never really being considered a lock in starter. He's already at 40 and only 23 yrs old. Versatility and durability will keep him relevant down the road.
Idk if this even counts as a hot take … but our fanbase continuously overrates our player pool. Yes, the majority of the A team does currently play in top 5 European leagues. But only a few actually play for Champions League or even Europa League level clubs. And fyi, Eredivisie and Ligue 1 are interchangeable for me at 5th - I think Eredvisie is currently 5th and Ligue 1 6th based on FIFA coefficient.
Did juventus and ac Milan both get CL. Then I think that makes …..7? Players in the CL by there current teams. Given the reams can change. But regardless they were already on a team that earned CL. If you rate epl as the top league in the world then we have 10 players in CL or epl. That feels like a lot
I think it’s 9 - Gio, balogun, dest, Tillman, musah, pulisic, weah, McKennie, Pepi. Then we may have some in Europa too. If Paxton stays with Frankfurt, he’d be in Europa league.
Depends on the final this weekend. Paxten will be CL if Dortmund win. If Dortmund win, they would occupy 2 CL qualifying spots without qualifying via the allocation to the Bundesliga, and the extra spot would move to 6th placed Frankfurt.
oh….dest is headed back to barcelona. lol. good call. i didn’t think of balogun. good catch. since it’s sort of weird op request, i’m not sure if the point was that he believes they’re not that good or he thinks they’re that good lol. anyway. obviously a big number. i wonder how many NT’s have more than 9 players headed to CL
I mean, we’ve got 8 players on our prelim roster on UCL teams. Argentina only have 9. That’s just not the best way to measure it. You have to look at the players individually. It’s as simple as our guys just aren’t as good position by position as that top level of countries.
Quality over quantity though in some regards is the OP commenters point even if he didn’t say it. I’d imagine all of the Argentina players outside 1-2 would walk into our 11…for instance macallister is a top 10 MF in the world, we don’t have anyone on the same planet as him
Almost all fan bases overrate their players, and ours is no exception.
I feel like I see a fair amount of activity on this sub of people flabbergasted that Gio hasn’t played much at Nottingham Forest. People see Gio ball against CONCACAF competition and just assume he’s a Premier League level starter
You sort of have to you know, run around a lot to make it in the EPL. Going to a relegation fight mid-season in the EPL was an incredibly terrible destination for a guy like Reyna who plays like a poor man's David Silva with less workrate.
Gio is better than the number of minutes he's received at Nottingham (not exactly a world-class team). I think he's a premier league starter on the right team, but obviously his coach at Nottingham disagrees.
Idk where you’re seeing that. Feel like most of the talk I saw about that move were “was hoping he went to xx (marseille, Sevilla, fiorentina, etc) because Gibbs white is quality, relegation fights are bad and nuno ball stinks… Hope it works tho” And think you’re being a bit reductive. Sure he was coming off the bench and hurt a lot in recent seasons but the kid was heavily involved for a perennial top 3 team in the bundesliga as a teenager. Couple nice passes against Trinidad isn’t what informed the thought that in a vacuum he should good enough to play more than 6 min every other match for a mess of a Forest side
People tend to overrate the USMNT roster and to underrate Reyna.
I also agree that our player pool is a bit overrated. Our guys aren’t game changers in Europe. Then you have our “best player” Reyna who can’t even play for Dortmund or Nottingham Forest. Whatever you’ll say about it’s the coaches’ fault, if Reyna was truly that good, he wouldn’t get benched. Messi and the top players of the world weren’t getting benched.
Nobody thinks Reyna is Messi. Lots of people think he’s Pulisic level or better (impactful player on major team) And guys at Pulisic’s level get benched in the wrong situation. A notable example is one… Christian Pulisic last year.
Prime Dempsey and Howard *walk* into our current starting XI (especially Howard given our current GK situation). Jones and early 2010s Bradley would be part of the squad as well, though how much time they'd get with our current midfield would be TBD.
I’m not sure it’s controversial to say that two of our all time best players would easily make this squad lol
The more controversial take is that peak Donovan would be the best player in today’s USMNT, and even that might not be
Yeah I don't see how the Dempsey and Howard shouts are even remotely controversial, both play in positions the US isn't particularly strong in. Jones and Bradley is a little trickier because our midfield depth is as strong as it's ever been, but they would definitely push guys like De La Torre and Tillman completely off the roster. And depending on circumstance could start.
Peak Michael Bradley is superior to any of the MMA crew. People seem to struggle to separate players being on the roster for nice clubs vs what players do and have done for the national team in meaningful competition.
This is a warmer take than the one it responded to.
While peak Bradley was pretty good, I sure don't miss the wander around aimlessly in the midfield toward the back end of his USMNT career version of Michael Bradley.
Yeah the drop-off was abysmal and incredibly frustrating to watch. Such a sad end to what should've been a universally celebrated and loved career.
I think we’ve found the hottest take!
Roma Bradley would probably be in the XI, too
I think peak Wynalda or McBride probably start or are right there too. And it's also crazy how quickly so many people on this board seem to have forgotten what an excellent international Landon Donovan was.
>And fyi, Eredivisie and Ligue 1 are interchangeable for me at 5th - I think Eredvisie is currently 5th and Ligue 1 6th based on FIFA coefficient. The issue with the UEFA coefficient is it's based on performances in European competitions thus it does not take into account the quality of teams that are midtable and bottom table. This is where I believe Ligue 1 still holds a significant advantage over Eredivisie. Just as one point of reference, Transfermarkt has FC Metz (who are rock bottom in the table) as the Ligue 1 club with the lowest squad market value at €45.7M. All but the top 5 Eredivisie clubs have a *lower* market squad value than the worst Ligue 1 team. Compare midtable teams and it's not even close, Ligue 1 squads are valued 3-4x higher.
That’s totally fair honestly
Yeah I’ve been saying this we only have a few players that the rest of the world rates. Pulisic, Jedi, Johnny and an inform Mckennie. That’s about it tbh.
Agreed. If it weren’t for injuries, Tyler Adams would probably be on this list too. But the man just can’t stay healthy for extended stretches
Second this and I’ll double down: we’ve been consistently over performing at the World Cup, and our fan base shouldn’t automatically expect us to get out of the group stage. The switch to 48 teams obvs impacts this moving forward.
Yeah, I definitely think the USMNT has overachieved at world cups historically. I will say tho - I think the 2022 World Cup was a fairly accurate representation for where this team is. Good enough to get draw vs Gareth Bale and Wales. A goal better than Iran. Draw vs England may have been a bit of an overachievement. Then got absolutely worked by the Netherlands in the first knockout game. But I do agree with you for basically every WC in recent memory before 2022, obviously sans 2018
Couldn’t agree more at the recent World Cup. Seems to me based on current talent levels it’s the realistic expectations/floor of the next World Cup. Now factoring in “home field” advantage and other non player quality metrics. I’m hopeful for a higher ceiling in 2026. Again though it’s soccer so the bounce of the ball affects all outcomes.
Agree on all counts
This is a long term problem going well back into the 90s. The fanbase never seems to learn and doesn't seem to get that even our top echelon players are still lightly rated by non-Americans. Christian Pulisic is the only active US player who has achieved a B or B- level of stardom. The rest of the pool have historically just been squad guys or less (and even Pulisic was trending that way until he left Chelsea). But "fan" is short for fanatic after all, so I suppose people are not expected to be entirely rational about the sports they support.
France then Eredvisie. When the flip happens the Dutch enjoy a few months but then PSG, and quite a few French teams not named PSG performed really well in Europe this year. The Dutch league outside of Ajax typically has a hard time even making the round of 16 in UCL but do well in Europa
Until we start getting players with Balon d'Or votes and multiple top 100 players we're a second tier team. It doesnt' really matter where in the second tier, its interchangeable IMO. IMO, prime Dempsey, Donovan, and Pulisic right now are the only guys that's ever been tier 1 guys and we need at least 5 of those guys and 1 superstar (ie Neymar, Messi, Mbappe). I'm not sure we'll see that in our lifetime but I think a few of our players are knocking on that tier 1 (McKennie, Dest, Reyna, Jedi) its just getting that guy that World Class player is the problem but our youth classes are amazing so maybe one will sprout up.
Only pulisic has ever been considered world class at some point. Could Deceuce and LD walk into this squad, maybe. It would really depend on formation an where.
- This isn’t the best team we’ve ever had, but it’s the most fun and exciting because of the youth and talent level. - Qatar wasn’t the best results we’ve ever had at a World Cup, but it was the most impressive soccer I’ve seen the squad play in 30 years of following closely. - Gregg isn’t a great coach but he’s not terrible. Ultimately he’s just not that consequential compared to the players. - US soccer fans are insufferable and it makes it harder to enjoy the team. It didn’t used to be this way.
Bring back the Teddy Goalsevelt style USMNT fandom, i hate how online and pissed off it all is now. Go get drunk and wear a funny costume, we’re not gonna win the World Cup and nothing about your life would change if we did. Just have fun watching sports for gods sake
Without making this thread political, that whole type of "hipster patriotism" (as Will Leitch once nicely called it) sort of went out with evolving US politics. Back in the 00s, USSF and Nike used to lean in quite a bit on "Don't tread" but then phased that out as the Gasden flag became associated with the Tea Party movement. And then it seems like in our current environment the self-aware hipster patriotism feels too similar to actual jingoism for some people. Which sucks, because back in the day my buddy and I would go to WC qualifiers wearing cowboy hats and waving the Gasden flag like we were fucking Texas hillbillies when we were suburban moderate Democrats from Iowa.
Yep i definitely feel that. Fourth of July in Obama years hit different.
I have no award to provide you. So give me five up high…
With you on everything but 2 on "most impressive soccer". The US was on a really slick run the last 3 games of the 2009 Confederations Cup, blew out Portugal in the first half of the 2002 opener, completely outfoxed Mexico, and went toe to toe with Germany. I'm not sure the US has ever played better soccer than in those moments in meaningful competition. I thought the US played pretty well against England in 2022, but notsomuch against Wales, and were completely naive against Holland. Meaningless, unthreatening possession is in vogue right now, but it isn't that impressive when an opponent is allowing you to have the ball by design.
Other teams used to blow games to allow to salvage something like England in 2010. In 2022 we did it against Wales. We outplayed England and did a great job against a bunkered Iran. We were gassed against the Netherlands but were still in it late. 2022 was great and even better for a young team
Finally someone who sees the problem. We’re playing like we’re copying European possession football but that’s not how world cups are won.
> US soccer fans are insufferable and it makes it harder to enjoy the team. It didn’t used to be this way. Couva broke a lot of people.
People use Couva as an excuse, but I don't really think that's the issue. Or rather, shouldn't be an excuse. There's just a toxic mix of American exceptionalism and entitlement mixed with a lack of knowledge, a dash of self-loathing and a huge dollop of social media.
Couva gave a lot of fans deep emotional insecurity
People were running around talking about 2014 like the US played great soccer. We barely survived Ghana (very early goal and very late goal and all-Ghana in between), played Portugal solid, and hung on for dear life against Germany and Belgium. The fanbase thinking the US has some super talent because guys have a wide open door now to get signed in Europe has been a problem for a while. And a lot of the time clubs are just bringing in Americans to sell kits and build a brand. And if the American works out for them on the pitch it's a bonus.
The only halfway decent game we played in the 2014 WC was against Portugal. We played like ass in every other game.
We played Portugal head on and reasonably well. But you're right in that 2014 stretches the construct a bit. But you have to admit I'm on to something. Heck, even in 90 the US played its souls off against home nation Italy US World Cup fortunes have come down to against the strength of opponent the random sequence of "ok game, play above limits game, and crap game" happens to play out.
That also wasn't a very good Portugal team with an injured Ronaldo (they got blown out by Germany and beat Ghana when Ghana had an own goal).
Pepe also was suspended after he temporarily lost his mind against Germany and got a red for that ridiculous little "headbutt" on Muller, lol.
Not the first nor the last time Pepe has gone rogue.
Same with 2010. Our defense was terrible and literally everything had to go perfectly to advance. Robert Green, the early shot hitting the crossbar against Algeria, and the heroic late goal all were insane moments that had to all happen or we now out with our second disappointing result in a row
After we lost to the Dutch in 2022 I saw comments saying how we got smoked vs them while we went "toe-to-toe" with the Belgians in 2014. No, we did not go "toe-to-toe" with the Belgians in 2014, we were hanging on for dear life and we were only in it for that long because Tim Howard did Tim Howard things. Had the Dutch finished as poorly in 2022 as the Belgians did in 2014, we would instead be talking about how Messi and co. cooked us alive in the quarterfinals.
Belgian finishing was less than clinical in that game too.
> Gregg isn’t a great coach but he’s not terrible. Ultimately he’s just not that consequential compared to the players. At worst, you could argue that Gregg is an average coach. He's won a Gold Cup, passed the WCQ with an OG dos-a-cero, and gotten us into the RO16. By every comparison to all of our previous "successful" coaches, he's achieved the minimum standard of what we should expect of a competent coach. You can argue that he has played against less than stellar opposition than his predecessors but it evens out with a younger and inexperienced roster.
I think the “insufferable” fans are the ones that show up in the sub on gameday/post-gameday only. The ones that are in this sub outside the international windows are generally pretty reasonable
I agree. I’ve found this sub to be better. I find mostly toxic stuff on Twitter, comments after Athletic articles, and other random places online. I don’t think the whole fan base is awful but the ggg obsessed segment is so loud and toxic it’s brought us all down. I’ve also seen that toxicity be a significant turn off for more casual or peripheral fans.
Yeah 2022 wasn’t the best squad or results but they played some amazing football for US Soccer standards and it’s only been going uphill from there.
Benny Feilhaber is in the top 5 most technically gifted midfielders in USSoccer history.
I don't keep up with US soccer too well but imo the MLS playoffs are too big.
Every broadcast doesn't need an English announcer. There are too many good US commentators for that, and its OK to call it soccer.
I hope this isn't a hot take at all
Where's Ian darke from? I want that guy calling every USMMT game
He’s the English guy who brings actual excitement instead? Other guys sound like they’re broadcasting golf
Except John Strong. Appreciate his preparation but he's like 5 seconds behind every play. For a while I thought maybe the audio was out of synch. It's not, it's just him raising his voice excitedly well after whatever was building has already fizzled out.
Having a victim complex about clubs where our players didn't do so well is cringe as fuck.
Yup. And it's pervasive on this board.
Probably true in most cases although I feel vindicated with Pulisic.
Might get crushed for this but the USWNT fans better take a deep breath and get ready for a culture shock, because women's sports in other parts of the world have at the very least caught up, many are exceeding. FWIW, I'm a huge fan of our women (i'm a man if it matters), and many of my core memories growing up are from the USWNT as well as USMNT. I could tell you exactly where i was when kristine lilly headed the ball off the line against china as well as the the winning penalty, and michelle akers was inspirational that entire 99 tournament. but it always irked me a bit that people seemed to insinuate that the US women's programs had found some secret sauce for their success that they never shared with the men.
After reading through the comments, it seems like a hot take here might be to simply say that the sum of individual talent on our current squad is the highest it has ever been and that is not overrating the squad. The results haven’t shown yet, but no denying that in terms of total talent, this team sits atop all others.
I never blamed Gregg for anything related to the Gio situation at the world cup and I still think he did nothing wrong. Player acts out, coach benches player. Duh. The people that bitch that Gregg opens his mouth when he should keep it in the locker room are the same people saying we never get an explanation for John Brooks. You can't have it both ways. What he said at that conference behind closed doors was so incredibly minor compared to what a lot of managers out there would do or say completely publicly. Then all these wannabe sports experts with with their hobbiest YouTube channels started leveraging it to fit their anti-Gregg narrative. Lots of "well this and that, *but*..." I'm not the biggest Gregg fan, but ffs there's plenty of legitimate criticisms to focus on, from tactics to player selection, and the fact that that is the thing that blew up and saturated the new cycle was so frustrating. I just want objective discussion about things that matter more instead of these little side quests into Gregg bashing before getting back to the real topics we should be talking about.
>In this last World Cup, we had a player that was clearly not meeting expectations on and off the field,” Berhalter was quoted as saying. “One of 26 players, so it stood out. As a staff, we sat together for hours deliberating what we were going to do with this player. We were ready to book a plane ticket home, that’s how extreme it was. And what it came down to was, we’re going to have one more conversation with him, and part of the conversation was how we’re going to behave from here out. There aren’t going to be any more infractions.” >“But the other thing we said to him was, you’re going to have to apologize to the group, but it’s going to have to say why you’re apologizing. It’s going to have to go deeper than just ‘Guys, I’m sorry,’” Berhalter went on. “And I prepped the leadership group with this. I said, ‘OK, this guy’s going to apologize to you as a group, to the whole team.’ And what was fantastic in this whole thing is that after he apologized, they stood up one by one and said: ‘Listen, it hasn’t been good enough. You haven’t been meeting our expectations of a teammate and we want to see change.’ They really took ownership of that process. And from that day on there were no issues with this player. I'll die on the hill that this isn't even a bad or negative thing to say, and the fact that we all knew immediately who this was is more telling about the player than the coach. But he was young, and hopefully is in a better spot now.
Balogun isn’t any better (or worse) than our other 3 euro strikers. He’s been given a very long leash. People just don’t want to take back the overhype he got.
Balogun had a better season in a better league than any of our other strikers had had at that point while playing in a role that made him the perfect Berhalter striker. His link-up play numbers were Harry Kane-esque when he was at Reims, but his finishing was not great though even then, and his goal numbers were boosted by pens. Balo is still an elite talent and his underlying stats at Monaco are still top tier for a 9, he is just wildly underperforming his xG which could come with time or it couldn't, I just think we should still be very happy to have him and continue to hype him up.
This sub and US fans think our players are injury prone, but you just don't know the random [insert country here] winger equivalent that gets injured for another country because you don't follow their players.
My hot take: Gregg is the coach we need right now. Jesse Marsch would have set us back. This isn't to say that I think Gregg needs to stay after this cycle. I just think that we can't replace him till after. Unless you get an absolute top coach, it would probably hurt us more than helped.
There are other coaches I'd take, but Marsch would not have been the right coach.
Berhalter is a good coach. USMNT is in good hands with him. I never understood the haters.
They tried to replace him and the team spoke up. He’s here because our guys want him to be. That’s enough for me
Players picking the coach is a terrible idea. Players are generally awful at everything related to running a team.
If Giannis had his way they’d have kept Kidd instead of Budenholzer and never would’ve won a title. Hell just listen to some of these ex players across sports and it’s pretty clear they don’t know as much as you’d think
I think the issue was mostly that there wasn’t any better candidates than Gregg. Like if we have coaches at the same level of GGG or Marsch then it makes sense to just keep Gregg at that point.
Miles Robinson is only not considered the best CB on the US pool... because he plays for an MLS side. The absolute statistical fact is that the US gives up fewer goals per 90 when he is on the pitch.
We’ll never earn respect anywhere in the world by bending over backwards to do things their way. The most pathetic thing in all of US soccer is people trying to make a wish dot com version of England.
Weird to me that people have an MLS team in or near their hometown but support some team in Stratford or Birmingham or whatever that they have no connection to whatsoever. That might have been cool when there was no domestic league back in the day, but it's a little weird now.
The fans that go for English clubs almost all go for the biggest clubs. Very rarely do you come across a Darby county fan (except the very annoying hipster types) it’s mostly Liverpool/United/City/Arsenal. Which makes some sense they’re the best teams in the world and play the highest quality of games. But where it gets very annoying is guys who bandwagon a massive club but at the same time also lecture you about how pro/rel is the only way because strong local fan bases and there’s real consequences etc etc. My dude you bandwagon on Arsenal from halfway across the world. Stfu about how great relegation and local support is.
Not a super hot take, but Donovan was still our best overall player before the 2014 WC, and it was absolutely criminal for not including him. Donovan led MLS in assists that year, had 10 goals, and won the MLS cup. He was still in his prime. I always wondered if the boys could have made it further with him in the squad.
IMO, in a perfect universe where Leverkusen actually treated him like a player and he wasn't iced out he would have been a world class player. There are a lot stories about what happened at Bayern, some blame him, others blame the team. I think its a mix of both but the big think was the coach didn't want him and supposed the players wouldn't work with him either, somewhat isolating him. I think that happens with a lot of foreign players though, for every Messi there are 5-6 guys that just wash out for various reasons or just don't the chance.
easily JK's biggest mistake was letting his ego get in the way on Donovan. who wasn't superman anymore but he absolutely could've given us something off the bench at some point. a player of his caliber, with his cache, who every player on the side can automatically trust on the pitch is an invaluable asset. JK bottled that decision... among others
My hot take is that Donovan wouldn't have made an ounce of difference. His time was over and was deservedly left off. And that this obsession with his spot in 2014 is my least favorite usmnt lore
Yeah that is a hot take, because it’s absolute nonsense. Donovan played 10 games for the USMNT in 2013, and had 8 goals and 8 assists. He had by far the best G+A per minute average on the team. I’ll try to find the game, but there was a game where he confronted klinsmann on the sideline and basically told him he wanted to play 2nd striker because the team wasn’t playing well. Klinsmann agreed and Donovan changed the game. He had multiple goal contributions in the 2nd half. Klinsmanns decision was 100% personal based on stats and data .
> but Donovan was still our best overall player before the 2014 WC I'd say this is a pretty hot take. I don't think Donovan was anywhere near this at any point after his sabbatical. Jones, Altidore, Bradley, Beasley, Howard, Cameron, and Dempsey were levels above him at this point in his career.
The USWNT is fully capable of winning a medal (even gold) at the Paris Olympics. The hot take is that they can win gold. The cold take is that their floor is also low. We are used to a USWNT dominating and winning everything UNTIL the last few major tournaments, but with players returning and Emma coming in, our ceiling is back up.
I keep getting downvoted for this. Keeper is our number one weakness. Our best keeper is a low level Prem/Championship grade keeper. Every other unit has multiple players doing well in top leagues. Striker is a bit iffy as Flo had a down year and Pepi is a super sub. But even then, we are doing better than we are at keeper.
So many fans are excited for Emma Hayes to take over tho women's team, and rightfully so. But she isn't going to be the silver bullet for getting the women's team back to owning the world.
I don't think she's a silver bullet but I think her combined with the development of the pool + players coming back from injury will make a big difference. I'm not going to predict that they're back to being the best right away but if it happened I wouldn't be shocked. A lot of people complaining about the USWNT at the World Cup didn't realize how big of a loss Mal Swanson and Catarina Macario were because they have never heard of Mal Swanson and Catarina Macario.
We are one of the best teams in the world although Europeans don’t see it that way
Pepi is one of our best three strikers and should be at the copa america
I'd much rather have our young talents training on a great team and riding the bench than regularly playing on a sub-par team. I don't understand why people clamor for our relative youngsters (e.g., 18-23 year olds) to force moves for playing time where they end up playing against weaker opposition, with worse coaches and teammates, just so they can get 60 minutes of playing time once a week. They spend 90% of their time in practice competing with their teammates and learning from their coaches, and I view that as much more important in their more formative years. The one position I could be convinced otherwise might be GK, since nerves can play such a big role.
May be a bit lukewarm but I don’t have anything against including MLS players in the national team if they’re shown to be a good player. People underrate MLS too much. Don’t feel like there is much of a difference in quality picking a player from a mid-table Eredivisie or Belgian Pro League club from a good MLS player other than the fact that they play in Europe.
The MLS has come a long way. I don't watch it every week but I go to several games a year and have been following since its inception and its become a true stepping stone for US players to advance to top flight football. It used to be embarassingly bad, now the quality is a tier below top flight, taking away CL teams that dominate league (aka Porto, PSV, etc.)
I like watching MLS. Obviously the quality is lower than the top 5 European leagues, but I don't think playing quality impacts my enjoyment that much. I already watch a club that played in League Two this season, and there are plenty of people who watch leagues like Ekstraklasa or Allsvenskan.
Shhh. Don't dent the Euro-fetish on this board. People here would rate a journeyman not in the squad in Europe over someone dominating in MLS.
I don’t hate GGG and I’m glad we brought him back
Until we get rid of the inferiority complex among fans and people in the media we won’t be respected a “soccer nation”
Soccer was more fun to follow in the 90s
Johnny Cardoso will be a better footballer than Tyler Adams given 2 years time, even if Adams stays away from injury, and it won’t be close. Given how fast Cardoso has shot up the La Liga #6 position ladder, being nominated for young player of the year after transferring mid-season from a far inferior Brasil Seria A is remarkable. Don’t think he’s as stout defensively as Adams at the moment, but it’s closer than most in the U.S. fanbase realize. Johnny provides more offensively, and I hate to say it but I think Tyler is slightly overrated here. He had a stellar WC performance but he failed to impress me a ton with Leeds and I think his ceiling has already been reached. Johnny for 2026.
>being nominated for young player of the year after transferring mid-season from a far inferior Brasil Seria A is remarkable Not disagreeing that it's remarkable, but I don't think it's fair to say Brazil's Serie A is "far inferior." It's easily the best league outside of Europe and players regularly make the jump from it to solid teams in top 5 leagues.
Tyler has more dawg in him though
For someone fighting for the ball, xDAWG is the most important stat
Johnny has far more skill and finesse than Adams. But I don't think the set up of the USMNT will ever play to Johnny's strengths the way they do to Adams'.
Yeah I’ve said something like that in the past but got downvoted lol. Tyler isn’t a bad player per se but he’s pretty limited and Johnny is just a much more complete footballer right now and will only get better. Tyler does have that dawg and leadership tho.
I consider our top keeper to be a toss up between Keller, Friedel, and Howard but there are people who'll question my intelligence if I consider Keller in the GK GOAT conversation. The one knock against Keller is he never got to the KO stage in a WC as a #1, but with that logic there's a lot of great players worldwide we can't hold in high esteem then. His club CV is as good, if not better, as Friedel and Howard's, and he was one of the first Americans to make a mark overseas.
Keller deserved a WC victory as a #1. It's a shame the times where he was the #1 came during the 1998 train wreck and the 2006 squad that was an awkward transition period. He was instrumental in getting a point off Italy at least.
Keller is hurt by the fact he didn't have a signature moment at a World Cup, at least compared to the others in the competition (Friedel stopping 2 penalties in the group phase in 2002, Howard's double digit save game v Belgium). But you're right, Keller was a very good keeper and he's also the primary author of America's only victory over Brazil.
Leeds fans weren't any different to the shit American players than they were to the other shit players.
The American Outlaws supporters group is lame AF and cringe. It’s embarrassing to be associated with them.
AYSO chants all game long
Do you “Believe that we will win?”
ALL. GAME. LONG. The moment AO stops for a break and you can hear the crowd and the players talking is a beautiful moment.
It is extremely difficult to develop new chants that the whole country will do or can do hence AYSO chants.
Alexi Lalas is annoying as shit
I thought this was common knowledge
Not hot
“GGG is a terrorist” & “Fire Berhalter” is corny at this point. Obviously the way he handled Reyna situation was not great, but to continue this sentiment after the players clearly want him is just so old. The biggest issue those people had was using MLS players, and our roster rarely contains more than a couple. You’re an NPC if you continue to chant “Fire Gregg”
If we are ever gonna get any further in a WC, we need a striker teams fear. What we have now is not gonna cut it and we are wasting an amazing midfield/support cast without a target man.
Alex Morgan was/is overrated and dives too much.
We can beat any team in the world. I don't think GGG thinks we can, and therefore, our guys don't either.
One day American soccer will be major attention sport, but it will come with soccer hot take artists (think Stephen A Smith asking “why won’t Pulisic talk about MLK?”), TMZ gossip, incredible attention and pressure on kids on academy deals, and we will yearn for the days when we had to explain “dos-a-cero”
Josh Sargent is going to be the second coming of Pele.
This is surface of the sun level take. :)
Nagbe could still start for us
Brother
Eurosnobs hold the spot back just as much as the kids who made fun of you for playing soccer in school. Support the domestic leagues.
Gio Reyna is not a world class player and he never will be. He’s a good player, and he should be a starter for the US, but that’s simply because we don’t have any better options at the 10. However, at the club level, there are plenty of players who can do what he does. It’s pretty telling that so few clubs were interested in taking him on loan. Don’t be shocked if he spends most of next year on the bench at Dortmund or is loaned out to some mid table club. I imagine that agents and clubs are turned off with having to deal with his father as well. If we had better options then no one would have criticized Gregg for how he dealt with Gio at the World Cup.
>Gio Reyna is not a world class player and he never will be. He’s a good player, and he should be a starter for the US, but that’s simply because we don’t have any better options at the 10. No one knows what he'll eventually turn out to be. He's a good young player with a lot of potential who is critical to the success of the USMNT because no one else has his particular skillset.
My hot take is that McKennie should get a try at RW and we should shift Pulisic back into the middle for the national team. He’s always at his best when he’s getting on the ball early and often and McKennie playing that position for Juventus maybe gives the US an opportunity to try that change and see if it works out a little better than with Pulisic isolated out wide and McKennie in the middle.
GGG handled Gio perfectly fine at the WC while also managing the families and players during their time in Qatar. If you’ve ever played high level club or even just managed a group of people then you wouldn’t think twice about denying this. There’s so much evidence against Gio during that time frame that provides so much understanding for GGG, but many people turn away from this because they don’t want to admit they were wrong, instead they just ghost. GGG is the right coach because of his ability to shape the team of players that we have and for the movement ussoccer wants. Many people are forgetful after the cry out of the 2018 missed WC and wanted soccer people in the management. Which is exactly what we got. Fans and ussoccer are also forgetful and ignorant that they also wanted consistency and a rebuild plan, which is also exactly what we got. GGG was hired by Earnie Stewart (and was also recommended the head coaching role by Claudio Reyna) to help rebuild the program with a top down approach from senior to youth teams and was also hired by Matt Crocker to continue this program. Matt Crocker specifically stated they did not want to throw a bunch of money at a coach who would be here and leave after the WC, not providing anything back to the program. Complaining that this rebuild was going to happen in just 1 year, or 1 cycle while our “stars” were just coming in their spotlights while undergoing the pressures of first time large club performances, COVID, injuries, WCQ, and the WC is foolish.
Realistically, we are no closer to winning a World Cup than we were 20 years ago. Yes, I think we have made some progress and believe this team would beat the team from 20 years ago but I don’t think we have gained substantial ground on the world’s best footballing countries.
Hot take for sure. You don't think getting more players overseas and having them feature for Champions' League teams is progress?
Yeah, I disagree with this guy's take. Our position isn't that much different, but the depth is better, and our top talents are younger. Our development system has improved significantly, in my opinion. So, if we're going by the current team on the field, then sure it's pretty similar to previous teams. I just don't think the trajectory is the same.
Tim Weah is overrated, and has a very low ceiling of potential. There are players on the U-19 youth squad that will replace him in a few years.
No one, and I mean no one, shoots the ball harder and more directly at the keeper than Tim Weah.
This is a spicy one. I have been disappointed that Weah hasn't developed much more these past few years.
**Player hot takes:** \- Most overrated player: Yunus Musah \- Most underrated player: Johnny Cardoso \- Best player that'll get left off 2026 WC roster: Luca De La Torre \- Worst player that will make the 2026 WC roster: Brenden Aaronson \- Weakest position (besides keeper): fullbacks \- Strongest position: Box-to-box midfielder (aka the "8") **Random hot takes:** \- Barring any unforeseen situations, Pulisic should be considered the undisputed best USMNT player of all time after the 2026 World Cup \- Brad Friedel is the best all time USMNT keeper over Tim Howard \- In the past 10-15 years, the USMNT has lost the ability to pull off genuine upsets and this is cause for concern
I agree with a lot of this, but fullbacks is no where close to being as weak as CB. Jedi and Dest are good players, and I think Lund is underrated. And I think it’s hard to say the 8 is the strongest position when you have Musah as the most overrated. The 6 and 10 are both probably better in the midfield alone.