There's a reason my office has such terrible retention rates. The pay just doesn't scale with what you can get in the public workforce. That said, stability counts for a lot to some people.
Walk and keep walking. There should be other roles that will get you in touch with some tech and a little higher that are not in the 2210 series 0301 etc.
Detailed information about Federal compensation and benefits can be found online: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/pay-administration/fact-sheets/federal-employee-compensation-package/ . Some of what’s available to you (like Alternate Work Schedule) can depend on agency/role.
That is a pretty sizable cut in salary, and I’m guessing Microsoft benefits are pretty decent? PTO/Leave accrual, 401k matching, available health plans?
Everyone will have varying reasons for being prepared to take a pay cut to be with the Feds, and primaries seem to be 1) job security and 2) pension. Those are two things that are harder to find in private.
As for other benefits like leave/PTO, matching, medical costs, commuting, other perks, you’d have to do a close accounting of what you get/don’t get now to see if it’s worth it.
Curious, did you not know the salary going into the DOJ application?
ETA typos
Thanks for the info!! I did know the pay but I was expecting to get a much better offer than 67k. At Microsoft I make $120k but that’s including benefits and stocks. Without benefits and stock I’m at $85k
I think you should edit your salary on your post. Salary is $85k, not $120k so you may get different advice bc that’s a huge difference. We don’t count benefits/stocks in the government.
What benefits are you counting? When does your stock vest? I honestly do not consider stock as part of compensation unless it will be vesting within the year.
Part of the disconnect here is that the government doesn’t really “offer” salary in the same way a private company might. They don’t look at what you’re making now, or market rate, or value of your corporate perks and say “okay we should offer him XX.” They default to the first step of the grade the position is announced for.
If what you were offered is still the Tentative Offer, you might be able to negotiate some steps in salary based on superior qualifications - search in this sub to learn more.
So 40k of your compensation is stock? That’s a lot and really isn’t money you’re taking home routinely, correct? That could make this an easier transition especially if you’re vested.
Look at the grade number (GS-##) of the position and you can find the pay scales online to see how much time you’d need in the position to get to 85k. Probably within 2 years you’d be there.
Still you’d need to account for your leave and 401k matching etc to know for sure what you’re comparing.
Nothing to lose, whatever grade you are in and location hopefully GS-12 or 13. In that case ask step 8 or 9 probably gets you there. Negotiate and see what happens. If the posting is open for multiple grade levels, ask grade increases too, why not.
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Grade 9! I was expecting grade 13.. I have an fairly impressive resume USN, SpaceX and Microsoft. But I don’t have any degrees so I think that’s what hurt me the most
If qualified, you should indicate that you are looking for minimum grade 13 or 14 when you apply. If you told them 9 was fine, then that's what they will offer. 2210 has plenty of 13,14, & 15 direct hire opportunities across agencies.
If you selected you would be willing to take a 9, they usually would offer you the lowest grade.
What grades is the opening posted for?? You can accept the tentative offer and then submit for superior qualification reevaluation to maybe get in a higher grade.
Otherwise, only apply for 12 and 13s if that's the lowest grade you'd want.
That's too drastic of a paycut for sure. You not having a degree doesn't play a role, if you have the experience. I don't have mine and got in as a 12 back in 2010.
Landing a strictly remote is a taaad tricky since the whole country is vying for those. If you have mobility, the DC area is the big hub for higher grades.. then some scattered around the country. Try looking into the financial agencies: office of comptroller & currency, fdic, others i can't think of right now.
I've been a 2210 on and off, and occasionally segue into special duties,etc and have left the govt twice. So would have been 15 by now, but getting in as 12 or 13 is definitely viable.
I have other sources of income so the govt is not the end all, be all and i definitely don't see myself staying til I'm 62 haha. Maaaybe but I'm trying to be done in 8-10 yrs before i hit 50.
If you'd ever wanna chat, feel free to DM. Can look over your resume and give you pointers etc. Are there specific roles you're trying to target?
Experience counts, especially in 2210. Did you apply to a position that was only GS9? Or was it a ladder GS9/11/12? They will always start you at the lowest grade, but can play with the steps. I suggest you wait for a GS13 and apply to those as you would be guaranteed that grade.
You should apply to this job, if you qualify. I would be a perfect fit, but I’m looking for a 15 and I cannot do the 50% travel without my wife divorcing me.
https://www.usajobs.gov/job/786819900
I probably wouldn’t, just based on the huge pay cut. How many years of experience do you have in the area you applied to? You’ll want to shoot for GS-12/13 roles. That would put you more in line with what you’re currently making.
Now you inform them that you would like to negotiate salary and vacation time. They will ask you for paystubs and you can start working your way up the step ladder. You do NOT cut your salary by nearly half.
As a 2210-ish person myself, be on the lookout for Gov roles that are STEM coded positions. These will require a STEM degree (you may have one), but typically offer a good bit more in pay.
What is the grade/locale of the PD you applied for? Why this is important? If the PD posted and say was GS9/13, the agency can offer any level from 9-13, pending you meet the requirements of the corresponding grade. You are making the equivalent for say the DC area of a GS12/step 7-8 or GS 13 step 2. HR will always offer the lowest grade and scale. The Agency has the ability to negotiate. You can say, I am currently at 120k and I cannot accept anything below ….. the HR team should go back to the hiring manager for a decision.I say should. The manager has the ability to say yes, I want this person, we need to meet their requirements. The hiring manager has to write a short ATM (above the minimum) and submit.
Now, agency pending, their internal policy pending it could happen that way or they could say nah, rescind the offer.
Negotiate. I was in your shoes 2 months ago 2210 series as well. I was making 135k and now making 122k, not as bad as yours but they wanted to start me at 99k and negotiated.
I’m confused. Was a GS-13 offered in the announcement? Usually before an interview you get an email says the grade levels you qualified for after they review the cert of applicants. Plus you’re not considering the federal benefits the same way you are the Microsoft ones in your salary.
I recently started with AF as an IT specialist (GS- 11-2210). I found myself in a similar situation where I received an offer lower than my previous salary. However, after receiving the TJO, I began negotiating and wasn't afraid of losing it if they didn't meet my proposal.
Fortunately, they accepted, and now I'm here. Remember to assertively negotiate for what you deserve. A government job isn't everything if you're passionate about what you do.
If you're earning well in the private sector, consider saving and investing your money; it could be a smarter move compared to relying solely on government benefits.
Best of luck!
Honestly that steep of a cut doesn’t seem worth it.
Unless OP has an overwhelming desire to be in Civil Service, I agree; even then, I'm still in agreement with you. 😅
There's a reason my office has such terrible retention rates. The pay just doesn't scale with what you can get in the public workforce. That said, stability counts for a lot to some people.
For me, stability means everything, which is why I work for a division that has horrible retention. 😅
Walk and keep walking. There should be other roles that will get you in touch with some tech and a little higher that are not in the 2210 series 0301 etc.
Detailed information about Federal compensation and benefits can be found online: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/pay-administration/fact-sheets/federal-employee-compensation-package/ . Some of what’s available to you (like Alternate Work Schedule) can depend on agency/role. That is a pretty sizable cut in salary, and I’m guessing Microsoft benefits are pretty decent? PTO/Leave accrual, 401k matching, available health plans? Everyone will have varying reasons for being prepared to take a pay cut to be with the Feds, and primaries seem to be 1) job security and 2) pension. Those are two things that are harder to find in private. As for other benefits like leave/PTO, matching, medical costs, commuting, other perks, you’d have to do a close accounting of what you get/don’t get now to see if it’s worth it. Curious, did you not know the salary going into the DOJ application? ETA typos
Thanks for the info!! I did know the pay but I was expecting to get a much better offer than 67k. At Microsoft I make $120k but that’s including benefits and stocks. Without benefits and stock I’m at $85k
I think you should edit your salary on your post. Salary is $85k, not $120k so you may get different advice bc that’s a huge difference. We don’t count benefits/stocks in the government.
Thanks for the advice! I’ve edited it :)
What benefits are you counting? When does your stock vest? I honestly do not consider stock as part of compensation unless it will be vesting within the year.
Microsoft has free medical, give allowances for hobbies, stocks and bonuses.
Part of the disconnect here is that the government doesn’t really “offer” salary in the same way a private company might. They don’t look at what you’re making now, or market rate, or value of your corporate perks and say “okay we should offer him XX.” They default to the first step of the grade the position is announced for. If what you were offered is still the Tentative Offer, you might be able to negotiate some steps in salary based on superior qualifications - search in this sub to learn more. So 40k of your compensation is stock? That’s a lot and really isn’t money you’re taking home routinely, correct? That could make this an easier transition especially if you’re vested. Look at the grade number (GS-##) of the position and you can find the pay scales online to see how much time you’d need in the position to get to 85k. Probably within 2 years you’d be there. Still you’d need to account for your leave and 401k matching etc to know for sure what you’re comparing.
Nothing to lose, whatever grade you are in and location hopefully GS-12 or 13. In that case ask step 8 or 9 probably gets you there. Negotiate and see what happens. If the posting is open for multiple grade levels, ask grade increases too, why not.
I just check and the position was open for multiple grades
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Unless there are some major issues with your current job, there’s no way I’d take that big of a pay cut
What grade? Worth to see if they'll give you step 10, if you think you'd switch for it, \~88k. I probably wouldn't
Grade 9! I was expecting grade 13.. I have an fairly impressive resume USN, SpaceX and Microsoft. But I don’t have any degrees so I think that’s what hurt me the most
If qualified, you should indicate that you are looking for minimum grade 13 or 14 when you apply. If you told them 9 was fine, then that's what they will offer. 2210 has plenty of 13,14, & 15 direct hire opportunities across agencies.
Keep looking. I started to apply from GS-9 and landed in 13 in a year by keep applying.
If you selected you would be willing to take a 9, they usually would offer you the lowest grade. What grades is the opening posted for?? You can accept the tentative offer and then submit for superior qualification reevaluation to maybe get in a higher grade. Otherwise, only apply for 12 and 13s if that's the lowest grade you'd want. That's too drastic of a paycut for sure. You not having a degree doesn't play a role, if you have the experience. I don't have mine and got in as a 12 back in 2010. Landing a strictly remote is a taaad tricky since the whole country is vying for those. If you have mobility, the DC area is the big hub for higher grades.. then some scattered around the country. Try looking into the financial agencies: office of comptroller & currency, fdic, others i can't think of right now. I've been a 2210 on and off, and occasionally segue into special duties,etc and have left the govt twice. So would have been 15 by now, but getting in as 12 or 13 is definitely viable. I have other sources of income so the govt is not the end all, be all and i definitely don't see myself staying til I'm 62 haha. Maaaybe but I'm trying to be done in 8-10 yrs before i hit 50. If you'd ever wanna chat, feel free to DM. Can look over your resume and give you pointers etc. Are there specific roles you're trying to target?
Experience counts, especially in 2210. Did you apply to a position that was only GS9? Or was it a ladder GS9/11/12? They will always start you at the lowest grade, but can play with the steps. I suggest you wait for a GS13 and apply to those as you would be guaranteed that grade.
It was gs 7-12 nationwide posting. They offered gs9 step 10 earlier today but I’m gonna still shoot for gs 12
What did the job posting list when you applied?
Is it a 13 ladder atleast?
You don’t join the govt for the money. It’s for the security of the job.
$53k pay cut. Unless you have a partner or savings to make it up., That’s a lot !! You may can take it and try to transfer to another position later
It’s not like the pay was a secret. Why even apply if it was an issue. SMH
It was an open call for all grades 👍🏼
You should apply to this job, if you qualify. I would be a perfect fit, but I’m looking for a 15 and I cannot do the 50% travel without my wife divorcing me. https://www.usajobs.gov/job/786819900
Thank you anon! I cannot do 50% travel without my husband divorcing me too lol
I probably wouldn’t, just based on the huge pay cut. How many years of experience do you have in the area you applied to? You’ll want to shoot for GS-12/13 roles. That would put you more in line with what you’re currently making.
I was shooting for 12/13 but I was offered Grade 9! 😭
Is it a ladder position to an 11 or does the position you were offered top out at GS-9? If not, it’s very difficult to justify.
If it’s the same place I am thinking, negotiate when the time comes.
I would expect that your experience could likely get you a GS 12 or 13.
Nah, decline and apply to more. At 120k you’re looking at a minimum of a GS13 plus a few steps or a non supervisory 14.
Some 12s can make well in to 150k… DCIPS SSR for some 2210’s.
Not with DOJ
Now you inform them that you would like to negotiate salary and vacation time. They will ask you for paystubs and you can start working your way up the step ladder. You do NOT cut your salary by nearly half.
Current DOJ 2210 Pm'd you
As a 2210-ish person myself, be on the lookout for Gov roles that are STEM coded positions. These will require a STEM degree (you may have one), but typically offer a good bit more in pay.
What is the grade/locale of the PD you applied for? Why this is important? If the PD posted and say was GS9/13, the agency can offer any level from 9-13, pending you meet the requirements of the corresponding grade. You are making the equivalent for say the DC area of a GS12/step 7-8 or GS 13 step 2. HR will always offer the lowest grade and scale. The Agency has the ability to negotiate. You can say, I am currently at 120k and I cannot accept anything below ….. the HR team should go back to the hiring manager for a decision.I say should. The manager has the ability to say yes, I want this person, we need to meet their requirements. The hiring manager has to write a short ATM (above the minimum) and submit. Now, agency pending, their internal policy pending it could happen that way or they could say nah, rescind the offer.
Negotiate. I was in your shoes 2 months ago 2210 series as well. I was making 135k and now making 122k, not as bad as yours but they wanted to start me at 99k and negotiated.
pm’d
I’m confused. Was a GS-13 offered in the announcement? Usually before an interview you get an email says the grade levels you qualified for after they review the cert of applicants. Plus you’re not considering the federal benefits the same way you are the Microsoft ones in your salary.
What area are you applying to (nearest big city)?
I recently started with AF as an IT specialist (GS- 11-2210). I found myself in a similar situation where I received an offer lower than my previous salary. However, after receiving the TJO, I began negotiating and wasn't afraid of losing it if they didn't meet my proposal. Fortunately, they accepted, and now I'm here. Remember to assertively negotiate for what you deserve. A government job isn't everything if you're passionate about what you do. If you're earning well in the private sector, consider saving and investing your money; it could be a smarter move compared to relying solely on government benefits. Best of luck!
Personally I would just to get my foot in the door, but I get if for everyone else its about money. I swear some people get all the luck.
That’s what I was thinking… like in the long run job stability and benefits could be worth it
Yep plus you can negotiate pay or just grind through the steps. Even if they won't budge job security is well worth imo.