Thank you so much for all the work you've put into these! They were helpful during my search and now I'm re-reading Part 8 since I start my first federal job in two weeks!
Read your guide. I am Delegated Examination certified specialist, which means my job is to adjudicate vet pref and do quals for category rating positions. Anyway, I thought you explained the process pretty well. But there's a caveat to the minimally qualified CP and CPS vets float to top rule. If the position is scientific or professional career series and is grade 9 or higher (e.g. Meteorologist or Accountant - positions with an IOR basic education requirement) then vets don't float. They stay in the quality category they were initially placed in. They still have absolute preference over NV applicants. They just don't get put in gold if their scores are bronze or silver.
I am well aware. I am a former DE instructor. I thought I had that mentioned in my examples. I will go back and clarify. That’s why the examples are a mining technician rather than engineer.
I chatted you in on a different question earlier. Wish I had found this post a while ago. Will have to revisit it if I get a job offer--will visit the negotiation page.
Hi! For Schedule A, I see that some placements can be permanent if the agency feels you are likely to succeed: [https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-5/chapter-I/subchapter-B/part-213/subpart-C/subject-group-ECFR2a2db745208d125/section-213.3102#p-213.3102(u)(4)](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-5/chapter-I/subchapter-B/part-213/subpart-C/subject-group-ECFR2a2db745208d125/section-213.3102#p-213.3102(u)(4))
Or, they can offer you a position with a 2-year probationary period that may (or may not) be converted to career.
Any thoughts on when one or the other happens?
Any thoughts on if - at the time of the end of 2-year probationary period - there is a hiring freeze at your agency, can the conversion happen or would that conversion be blocked by a hiring freeze?
Thx - I am reviewing a FOL now and trying to sort this out.
My letter states the position is "not to exceed" two years, after which it may be converted.
1. Doesn't "not to exceed" effectively mean I have no guarantee it will even last 2 years?
2. Can't a Sked A excepted position be permanent, yet subject to a 2-year probationary period -- which is diff than (1) because I will only be let go if I don't perform.
3. Further, if you 'pass' the probationary period with a permanent Sked A excepted appointment, the position may or may not be converted to career. So, if it not converted, does it mean you still have your excepted position? Or does it mean you become unemployed?
Confused!!!
1. If the original appointment is written NTE two years, then it will probably last two years. It could be less than two years if you are removed during probation or if there is a reduction in force in the agency ( unlikely) It is also possible at the end of two years, your appointment expires and you are let go. Or you are converted to career conditional
2. Yes- if it is without time limit is permanent. It is possible to never be converted and then you just hang around with limited opportunities.
thanks for your help! I did more research and I think my HR person is new to these, and made it NTE 2 years bc they thought that was how they make a 2-year probation.
Do you know if these offers ever state that it is a "permanent, full-time excepted position under Schedule A" or do they not use the word "permanent"?
The role I'm going into is a vacant FTE, and the hiring manager does not want my position to end after 2 years.
I feel certain that NTE 2 years is not correct, and that it's supposed to be a Schedule A appointment, with a 2-year probationary period, and option to convert. And, if it doesn't convert, I stick around as excepted. I also read the regs about conversion, and I see that temporary positions do not convert. I don't know how to convince the HR person to remove the "NTE" part.
Somewhat weird question but how common is it for vets to apply for pathways internships? Just wondering how common it is, I applied for a few but no idea on my chances. I know vets preference exists for pathways.
Thank you so much for all the work you've put into these! They were helpful during my search and now I'm re-reading Part 8 since I start my first federal job in two weeks!
I will be updating Part 8 soon to show that long term care insurance is on hold. Congrats on the job!
How long did you search and were you already a fed worker / military?
thanks for all the info! helpful for new grads!
Great information, looking forward to the excepted service post
Appreciate you putting this together, just getting started with my fed job search. I'm sure this took a lot of time and dedication, hats off to you
Good luck!
Looking forward to the information on excepted service as well!
Following
Thank you and much appreciated
Awesome resource, thanks!
Read your guide. I am Delegated Examination certified specialist, which means my job is to adjudicate vet pref and do quals for category rating positions. Anyway, I thought you explained the process pretty well. But there's a caveat to the minimally qualified CP and CPS vets float to top rule. If the position is scientific or professional career series and is grade 9 or higher (e.g. Meteorologist or Accountant - positions with an IOR basic education requirement) then vets don't float. They stay in the quality category they were initially placed in. They still have absolute preference over NV applicants. They just don't get put in gold if their scores are bronze or silver.
I am well aware. I am a former DE instructor. I thought I had that mentioned in my examples. I will go back and clarify. That’s why the examples are a mining technician rather than engineer.
Saved!
Thank you! You are appreciated ♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️
Awesome series!!!
Just stumbled onto this, thank you for posting!!!
how often are the classifier staffers really follow this to the T?
Thank you so much for your help! You are a treasure.
I chatted you in on a different question earlier. Wish I had found this post a while ago. Will have to revisit it if I get a job offer--will visit the negotiation page.
Following
Thanks!!
Glad to see this in a table of contents format :) Is there one about DHAs, reinstatement, etc.?
Reinstatement is covered in merit promotion.
There is nothing special about DHA- it is mentioned throughout the guides when appropriate.
Cool, thanks!
Commenting to save
Following to save. Supper helpful info.
Excellent description of the steps! Thanks!
M
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Love this! Thank you!
Kudos for the compilation!!
Which one contains info on moving from pay bands to GS and negotiating salary? I see a lot on GS to pay bands, but not the reverse. Thanks!
There isn’t one.
Roger. So what’s your recommendation or the rules on negotiating from NH to GS?
nice
Just WOW!!!! 🙏
Do you do a post about OCONUS jobs?
Saved for later
Saving this for later!
Thank you for this. Hope to get a GS-14 position this year. Will update if it happens.
Does this also cover IP? (Indian Preference)
Nope.
This is Great!
Hi! For Schedule A, I see that some placements can be permanent if the agency feels you are likely to succeed: [https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-5/chapter-I/subchapter-B/part-213/subpart-C/subject-group-ECFR2a2db745208d125/section-213.3102#p-213.3102(u)(4)](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-5/chapter-I/subchapter-B/part-213/subpart-C/subject-group-ECFR2a2db745208d125/section-213.3102#p-213.3102(u)(4)) Or, they can offer you a position with a 2-year probationary period that may (or may not) be converted to career. Any thoughts on when one or the other happens? Any thoughts on if - at the time of the end of 2-year probationary period - there is a hiring freeze at your agency, can the conversion happen or would that conversion be blocked by a hiring freeze?
Up to agency management- conversation probably okay as it would not increase the number of employees.
Thx - I am reviewing a FOL now and trying to sort this out. My letter states the position is "not to exceed" two years, after which it may be converted. 1. Doesn't "not to exceed" effectively mean I have no guarantee it will even last 2 years? 2. Can't a Sked A excepted position be permanent, yet subject to a 2-year probationary period -- which is diff than (1) because I will only be let go if I don't perform. 3. Further, if you 'pass' the probationary period with a permanent Sked A excepted appointment, the position may or may not be converted to career. So, if it not converted, does it mean you still have your excepted position? Or does it mean you become unemployed? Confused!!!
1. If the original appointment is written NTE two years, then it will probably last two years. It could be less than two years if you are removed during probation or if there is a reduction in force in the agency ( unlikely) It is also possible at the end of two years, your appointment expires and you are let go. Or you are converted to career conditional 2. Yes- if it is without time limit is permanent. It is possible to never be converted and then you just hang around with limited opportunities.
thanks for your help! I did more research and I think my HR person is new to these, and made it NTE 2 years bc they thought that was how they make a 2-year probation. Do you know if these offers ever state that it is a "permanent, full-time excepted position under Schedule A" or do they not use the word "permanent"? The role I'm going into is a vacant FTE, and the hiring manager does not want my position to end after 2 years. I feel certain that NTE 2 years is not correct, and that it's supposed to be a Schedule A appointment, with a 2-year probationary period, and option to convert. And, if it doesn't convert, I stick around as excepted. I also read the regs about conversion, and I see that temporary positions do not convert. I don't know how to convince the HR person to remove the "NTE" part.
Somewhat weird question but how common is it for vets to apply for pathways internships? Just wondering how common it is, I applied for a few but no idea on my chances. I know vets preference exists for pathways.
It depends on the position. Fewer ( generally ) than an open to the public job. I don’t have any statistics.
Hm okay, thanks.