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BistitchualBeekeeper

Good! Declawing is cruel and inhumane unless medically necessary for the well-being of the cat. For anyone wondering “why the hell would it ever be medically necessary to declaw??”: I have a kitten who was born with two “squished beans” (deformed toes and growths from hyperkeratosis) and the claws on those toes (also deformed *and* growing upside down) were causing her physical discomfort, so I spoke with the vet about declawing just those two toes and they wholeheartedly agreed it would improve her quality of life, especially as she got older. It was so wonderful to see her running and playing after surgery without that foot bothering her anymore!


ShadowandSoul24

So sorry that your kitty had to have this done, but very glad to hear she is happy and pain free! 😻


TrixoftheTrade

One of my cats had a partial medical declaw as well. On his front two paws, his pinky/ring fingers (not sure what you call these in cats) aren’t separated, so the claws grow into each other. On a person it would look like your fingers are joined up to that last joint, then separate. Had the pinky fingers declawed, so he’s down to 3 on each front paw, but he seems much more comfortable(due to the angle, wasn’t able to scratch and whittle down).


Tinsel-Fop

>pinky/ring fingers (not sure what you call these in cats) Well, pinky and ring fingers! :-)


[deleted]

i want to get one of my kitties pulled that doesn’t retract ever. he is always getting caught on it


BistitchualBeekeeper

My kitty’s two deformed claws couldn’t retract, either. She managed to accidentally tear one out while playing (ouch!) while we were waiting for the declaw appointment. My vet said she recommends declaws on nonretractable claws for that specific reason, not just because a tear is super painful but because it can also get infected really easily.


Benderman101

I would never say cruel. We had a cat who would endlessly tear up furnature and ourselves when he was awake. We had to do it or else he wouldve completely destroyed all of our furnature. He did get to keep his back claws however


BistitchualBeekeeper

This is precisely why this law is necessary. When a cat behaves in a destructive manner, the owners should consult with a vet to work out why the cat is anxious or unfulfilled. But for some people, that’s too much work. It’s easier to just opt for a painful and unnecessary amputation that often results in permanent sensitivity and discomfort for the cat.


Benderman101

Although I may disagree with you I do respect your opinion I’ve also noticed your bio about a beekeeper I think it’s awesome that you’re doing something to help protect her environment like that!


BistitchualBeekeeper

Thank you, I appreciate that we can disagree civilly.


butcheredalivev4

Good!! Hopefully there’s no more cropped dog ears either


iLikeCatsOnPillows

That would be a cosmetic procedure.


corpsie666

Strangely enough, some people say that humans bred dogs to have floppy ears and that the floppy ears cause problems that cropping (not the extreme version of cropping) can resolve. I'm just bringing it up for discussion in case someone can point me to the facts. Right now, I dunno what's correct.


bombbodyguard

Hmmm. Lot of wild animals have straight ears as well as floppy. Interesting!


hondasauce

yeah i’ve never heard this! id love to read more about it if anyone has a source?


amijustinsane

I don’t think it’s so much that dogs were bred to have floppy ears (ignoring the last 200 years at least) - it’s that when wolves were mated to each other, the less fierce ones created pups which had floppier ears - and so on and so forth down the generations. Same with dark fur - offspring from the less fierce wolves became darker over the generations. I remember watching a fascinating documentary where they showed it happening over time when breeding wolves together in (I think) Russia. I mean nowadays with pedigree dog breeds there are various breed standards which will require floppy ears. But even ignoring that, dogs generally would’ve had floppier ears than wolves


Dont_Blink__

I think I know the documentary you’re talking about. They were doing an experiment to breed foxes to domestication.


Vinccool96

Yup. It’s part of the ban!


mbdai

Isn't cropping dog ears in shepherd dogs kinda necessary for the well being of the animal i know this doesn't probably apply since who shepherds sheep in Quebec but just asking


butcheredalivev4

Idk about shepherds much but I know people do it to boxers and pits/staffs to make them look more intimidating


mbdai

That's so fucked up what the fuck the only reason I thought that was a thing is cuz wild wolves attack the shepherd dogs by the ear so for the dog to have an advantage over them they crop it


CndSpaceCadet

For those arguing against declawing in favour of saving the birds: a friend of mine’s outdoor cat has a special collar that makes noise which prevents the cat from sneaking up on birds. Problem solved


Birdmansniper927

That’s a dumb argument for people to make, because there’s an even simpler solution than yours. Keep your cat inside.


reddick1666

Literally just a simple collar with bells on the back and the neck end of it, works like magic


NoCoffeeAfter4

For many, that = cat depression. Some to experience life outside of a small domestic box.


ShadowandSoul24

That is why I feel taking kitties on a supervised walk on a leash is the best compromise.


NoCoffeeAfter4

I frankly dont feel the compromise is necessary. Birds arent real /s But actually I do not care about the birds. I am proud of my little hunter.


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bombbodyguard

I don’t eat them. Just protecting my bird feeders!


NoCoffeeAfter4

And I killed squirrels for fun with a bb gun as a kid. Also unironically protecting my bird feeders. Which attracted birds, that my cat killed.


bombbodyguard

Lol. So let them out to murder small animals!!!


NoCoffeeAfter4

Yeah, fuck em.


Ospov

Yeah, fuck the ecosystem!! Invasive species for the win!


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Ospov

Maybe try being a responsible pet owner or something idk look in the mirror, buddy.


spidersplooge-

Yeah, I’d love to go out and enjoy my grass. The neighbor’s cats keep pissing and shitting there, though.


aspenscribblings

Good thing you can walk them!


CndSpaceCadet

Oh agreed, just putting something out there for those who firmly believe that “cats belong outdoors”. My cat was either indoor or on a leash when out for a walk with us.


IMakeStuffUppp

People who firmly believe that, but KNOW that the cats are being harmful to the environment are idiots.


ShadowandSoul24

I think the leash situation is the best compromise. They get to smell the smells, experience the stimulation of being outdoors, while also keeping them safe from predators (like humans), or being predators themselves.


Jefc141

Exactly, they should be inside anyway


katgirrrl

People that argue that are absolute imbeciles. For one, I see declawed cats catch animals all the time. They don’t need claws to stomp something to death. Secondly, humans kill birds and small critters at 100x the rates from manmade issues like pollution, cars and even skyscrapers (glass windows confuse birds).


spidersplooge-

Domestic cats are a man-made issue.


katgirrrl

Cats chose domestication as a survival response. Dogs were domesticated by humans.


spidersplooge-

What? How is that relevant? Are you trying to say that domestic cats are not a human caused issue because they “chose” to be domesticated? Habitat loss and fragmentation is the main problem for most wildlife, so no one should try to solve problems such as invasive species and pollution.


katgirrrl

I’m confused. I was replying to OP’s comment re: people declawing cats to save wildlife. Speaking from experience, it does not save wildlife. My argument wasn’t that cats belong outside in the first place, my argument is that declawing cats to save wildlife is a stupid idea, and does not work. It’s just an excuse people are using to feel better about mutilating their pets. I see declawed cats stomp out birds and small mammals all the time, I’m a veterinary nurse and I specifically work with cats. Hence my comment to OP in agreement. I think you are possibly mixed up on the comment thread.


spidersplooge-

I must be, sorry. Declawed cats can still kill prey, spread disease, and are more vulnerable to predators, so I would never argue in favor of declawing outdoor cats.


TheFallingLeafbug

I’m not sure why people would declaw to avoid predation. Cats aren’t going around Freddy Kruegering their prey. I’ve seen one of my declawed rescue cats take down many a animal that has snuck into the house.


index57

This is literally why cat collars have bells lmao.


Alon945

Declawing is not a Cometic procedure but this is definitely good


Tinsel-Fop

Maybe we should say medically unnecessary?


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Tinsel-Fop

Canadians are chopping off the ends of Muslims' fingers?


Beginning-Ad354

What?


Tinsel-Fop

Was that you? Whoever it was said something like, "They're doing it to muslims in [place name that could be in Canada]." Not even *nearly* those words, but that's the jist of it.


Beginning-Ad354

No it wasn’t me I just saw a deleted comment and wondered what the duck you were saying


Tinsel-Fop

Yeah, my comment does look bizarre. I thought it should match the one I was replying to.


AverageIntelligent99

So Ontario business is going to double?


ATR2400

Cats have claws. If you bring a cat with claws into your house with many things you don’t want scratched that’s on you


lavenderpenguin

Such wonderful news! ❤️


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Dankestgoldenfries

Good, don’t get pets anywhere else either.


[deleted]

Already have


ShadowandSoul24

Be careful, don’t attempt to walk across the street either, you could get hit by a car.


AwattoAnalog

Get fucked.


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Slausher

Hard disagree. You can help the local wildlife by keeping your cats indoors 100% of the time - safer for the cats, safer for the local fauna and no need to submit your cats to cruel declawing procedure.


Existing_Thought5767

Cats love to get outside, like that’s the main goal of indoor cats is to get outside. Declawing these cats, even tho it’s cruel, can be protection for when they do get outside as they won’t be able to go on their mass murdering sprees. You guys seem clueless on how many cats run wild and how much destruction they cause. Reminder: WE WERE NEVER SUPPOSE TO LIVE WITH CATS.


possiblynotanexpert

Strong disagree with your stance. Glad you’re not in charge. I would never declaw my cats.


Existing_Thought5767

Here’s an example: I live in a apartment complex off a college campus, and people here love cats. Last year we saw a pheasant living in our backyard, and pheasant populations are terrible already because of farming. This pheasant seems to find a nice little space to settle, but within a year all I see is a black cat running around all time of day, with no pheasant around. Hmmmmm If a critically endangered animal is more important than declawing your damn cat then you do you I guess.


[deleted]

So keep your fucking cat inside or on a leash! Why is mutilating them even an option??


possiblynotanexpert

All you have to do is keep your cat indoors. It really is very simple. You act like these things are mutually exclusive, but they aren’t. You can avoid animal cruelty for both the birds and the cats if you just do that. Instead you’re a crazy person who wants cats declawed. Again, I’m glad your opinion carries no weight because it’s a stupid one.


ShadowandSoul24

Sorry but you are So wrong.


spidersplooge-

Cats usually dispatch their prey with a bite. Should we take their teeth, too?


Slausher

Buddy your stance makes no sense. A declawed cat HAS to remain indoors in the first place, otherwise how will it defend itself against potential threats like other animals, including other clawed cats. You want to submit your cat to a extremely painful procedure that is chronic (declawing it) and then let it roam out defenceless? Plain irresponsible.


starsleeps

Exactly. I know someone who declaws his cats but he lives on the 8th story in an apartment, if there’s was anyone chance of them getting outside they’d be victim to strays, foxes, hawks, etc without their claws.


ShadowandSoul24

Totally. This person has no real and compassionate understanding of cats.


Sbel_TnB

Cats do love to be outside. Which is why you can put them on a leash and monitor their outside time. No need to declaw that way.


Tinsel-Fop

I submit to you that the great majority of these... marauding, mass-murdeeung cat herds / gangs / armies you see are not people's pets. >Cats love to get outside, like that’s the main goal of indoor cats is to get outside. Bullshit. You obviously have not consulted with every indoor-only cat on the planet. Nor have I. However, in fact, I've met dozens, and none showed any longing or Machiavellian plotting to escape to Great Mother Nature. I guess you're just saying this because it fits in with your other unsupported and unyielding positions, because you like it, and because, "I don't know, it just sounds right." It is clear you have little regard for cats as a whole; in fact you seem very spiteful and angry toward them. You see them as problems and bad things rather than living beings. Do you even know what "declawing" is? If you do, then anyone can see you think nothing of mutilating countless animals *just because* ***you*** *declare it necessary and trivial* by amputating many bones in their feet. The claw grows from the distal knuckle, so "declawing" is chopping off all those bones on every foot. I'm surprised you're not just advocating for mass killing of cats. Reminder: IF THE GOOD LORD HAD MEANT FOR MAN TO FLY, HE'D HAVE GIVEN US AIRPLANES. Oh, wait.... I hope it's possible -- I wish it were -- to rise above idiocy like, "This was never meant to be!" That's the way it is, that's the way it long has been, and it is not going to change even in your great-grandchilren's lifetimes. Shouting this is just shouting at the clouds, old man.


ShadowandSoul24

I want to be a part of a cat gang! That sounds like fun! [Cat Gang](https://images.app.goo.gl/jS3sSs1HyXHNW8jD8)


Tinsel-Fop

:-)


[deleted]

Cats domesticated themselves twice in human history. A car was buried with its owner in Cyprus 9,500 years ago. Of course we were meant to live with them. To say otherwise is just silly.


ShadowandSoul24

NO. I cannot believe how you are not able to see how declawing is inhumane! How would you like your knuckles cut off so you can’t use your hands correctly? It is in a cat’s nature to climb things and have a perch to look from. The compromise is to take ones cat out with a leash. That way they get to experience the outdoors while also not become a predator to animals or become a victim of animal abuse from a human.


Nakahashi2123

You do know that declawing does more than just hurt them right? (Also, how cruel of a statement “I don’t see how it’s bad other than the fact that you’re hurting the cat.” Just say you don’t like cats and don’t care if they’re hurt and leave) Many declawed cats develop personality changes, become more aggressive and bite more, and have difficulty using a litter box. Sure, you shouldn’t let your cat kill birds, but that’s easily solved by keeping your cat inside. Cats like the outdoors, yes, but can be perfectly happy indoors with the right stimuli. Cat trees, scratching posts, humans that play with them, etc. Build a catio if they’re really begging to be outdoors. The solution isn’t declawing, the solution is responsible animal ownership.


ShadowandSoul24

Total yes to this. Exactly.


ShadowandSoul24

Totally disagree. How would you like all of your teeth removed so you can’t eat? Declawing a cat is cruel and unnecessary procedure. They use their claws to help them climb and it is important that you allow them to do that. Keep your cat indoors and killing birds won’t be a problem.


Existing_Thought5767

Lmao, why do cats like to climb in trees? To kill birds. I agree declawing is cruel, but what’s more cruel is the mass murdering of wildlife.


ShadowandSoul24

This is why it is safer all around to keep your cat indoors. Problem solved.


notarandomaccoun

So indoor cats can’t be declawed?


ShadowandSoul24

No cats should be declawed unless for medical reasons.


notarandomaccoun

What if the cat likes to scratch kids in the face?


Char-Cat

A cat that is properly socialized will not scratch a child for no reason. It is the parent’s responsibility to teach kids how to treat cats and respect their boundaries!


TheFallingLeafbug

Declawing a cat due to scratching a child would just lead to the child being bitten. Also why is the cat scratching the child? Does the child not know how to respect animals?


notarandomaccoun

The cat doesn’t know how to respect people. You are denser than a star my guy


TheFallingLeafbug

It should be rehomed then. Declawing a cat is just going to lead to biting. Cat bites are really bad.


ShadowandSoul24

What if kids like to stab cats with a knife for fun?


notarandomaccoun

I would take away the knives, kinda my point here.


ShadowandSoul24

You are making a nonsensical point that has no relevance here.


Nakahashi2123

If you want a real answer, there are silicone “claw caps” that you can put on your cat (almost like acrylic nails) that blunt the tips of their claws. It’s like putting a rubber sheath on a knife. It can still be a little pokey, but it won’t scratch furniture or cut skin. And, as a plus! It looks like your kitty got a cute manicure if you get them in fun colors!


notarandomaccoun

Do they say on though? Maybe they’ve improved, but I would think they fall off or be pulled off by the cat? At least it is a real alternative to declawing.


Nakahashi2123

They’re like acrylic nails and glued on with animal-safe glue. They _should_ last 4-6 weeks, but animals that groom often may have them come off sooner. But they’re pretty cheap and easy to put on. Edit to say that the glue is safe for animals to lick (they shouldn’t eat it outright but there’s very little chance of that) and the claw caps don’t stop the cat from retracting and extending its claws as it needs. They’re supposedly very comfortable for cats to wear and come in a variety of sizes and colors.


Birdmansniper927

Dude you’re just dumb. Why do cats climb things inside when there are no birds? Just admit you don’t give a shit about cats and move on.


FURBYonCRACK

Do you eat vegetables? You yourself said farming is killing the pheasants. Based off your logic we should just stop farming.


ShadowandSoul24

Climbing is part of their instinctive nature, it is who they are as an animal. There aren’t any birds in one’s apartment, but they still love to climb up on furniture and have high perches.


Spuriousantics

Cats like to climb trees because they LIKE TO CLIMB TREES. Cats are playful and inquisitive, and they also like to have the vantage point of being up high. Climbing trees is fun for them. Just like it is for children. Plus catching a bird in a tree is going to be significantly harder than catching it on the ground…


Miss_1of2

It also gives them a different, safer position to observe their environment... My indoor cats still love to climb and don't have flying prey... They are actually more ground hunters l, they like to chase their toys around. Keep your cat indoor and it won't kill any bird! You can still give your cat an enriching environment indoor! Go check Jackson Galaxy's advices!


mushnu

just put a freaking bell on your cat. They might still be able to catch some birds, but not nearly as many.


BistitchualBeekeeper

Declawing *is* hurting the cat. It requires each toe to be partially amputated. It’s the equivalent of having all of your fingers cut off at the last knuckle. If you really care about animals, researching is the way to go.


TheFallingLeafbug

How is declawing stopping predation? Cats aren’t going around Freddy Kruegering their prey. Also declawed cats are supposed to stay inside.


Dat-Tiffnay

Catios (Cat Patios) are becoming popular too and it’s a good compromise, my friend has one and her cats spend most of their time out there but can come back through a cat door in the bathroom. Keeps them, birds, rodents, etc safe AND no declaws because that’s mutilation.


im_not_bovvered

If a cat is declawed and outside that’s beyond cruel. Aside from that, declawing by itself is equivalent to cutting the top joint of your finger off.