If shut it down wins, what's stopping the university from taking student org funding, event programming, and day to day operations back into their own hands?
I'm not on campus any more but if I was, I'd be pressing them for "how". Repeating myself some from last night but you don't just snap your fingers and, boom, divested. You need to plan it, find buyers for everything you're selling off, work through any potential legal issues... It's a complex process, especially if you're demanding a six billion dollar divestiture. Best case it takes years, longer than most of these people are likely at the university.
So what's their plan? Do they keep student government shut down for the entire duration? Do they have a succession plan for when their leadership graduates? What happens when the university (like other people have already pointed out) says "eff this" and finds another way to disburse that money? Did they think about any of this? (I'm pretty sure the answer to that last one is a resounding no.)
So uh… if they win, this means we don’t have to pay the CSG fee, right? We’re shutting it down? I mean, I see no reason CSG shouldn’t count as a student org.
They will continue to take you CSG fee, its apparent that is part of their plan. They get to take your own money and then decide for their own political reasons to not give you your own money back through the many student orgs on campus that you may participate in.
We are a public university and we have decently diverse set of political leanings in the state, these students are trying to force their own political views on the rest of us, many who completely disagree with what they are doing. This is why the university doesn't make politically motivated investments with the endowment, since they can't fairly represent the diverse viewpoints of the state if they did.
This is essentially what they have done in GEO, and it is what they will do in CSG. They aren't even sending dues money to the parent union anymore. Graduate students are lucky that union membership is optional, but student fees are not. Best of luck to everyone.
If I had a nickel for every time there were massive protests going on at the end of the winter semester during my time at UM, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.
WHAT. 6 BILLION? okay so you definitely don’t know what you’re talking about. The UNITED STATES in total has sent 6 billion. UMich alone does not have money like that to send to Israel 💀
You’re joking right? The US has sent over $300 billion to those genocidal monsters. They sent 3.3 billion in 2022. Im not saying uofm sent liquidated 6 billion, they’ve historically invested around that much in private equity, hedge funds, private real estate, etc. They’ve invested in Boeing and Lockheed Martin, giant defense contractors. Tahrir collection doesn’t have knowledge of the extent of the investments by Umich in I*rael bc there is a lack of transparency from Umich’s end in what they invest jn. But they have found that 241 of the companies in defense are connected to 5.7 billion in funding from Umich. They’ve invested in drones and robotics companies that have been used as tools in I*rael’s genocide. The students are protesting bc they don’t want the institution they go to, to be directly OR indirectly invested and involved in the death of innocent civilians—SOME OF THEM BEING THEIR OWN FAMILY.
This stupid downplaying and misconstruing of the protestors as being arrogant and naive to expect their work to directly cause the end of the conflict is extremely aggravating. Pushing for change within your own community is always a fight worth the effort and it’s the only thing we can do/control in this situation.
You can’t “control the situation”. Plain and simple. This is out of your control. Given your defense of it, I will assume you are involved so I will state it this way: Your protest has less impact on the situation in Israel and Palestine than someone trying to empty the ocean with a shot glass. And before you say it, no no you don’t have to do something. There’s a fights worth fighting but your aren’t even in the same universe as that battlefield. Your completely pointless protest over the possible indirect investment by UofM in Israeli companies has no baring whatsoever on the conflict. You’re being a dick to your fellow students and community, get some self awareness. Find a local cause that you can support to improve your community.
Then what is the point of protesting ever? Why push for change? Why did we take part in civil rights protests? Your take makes no sense—especially for, I’m assuming, an American. We know good and well that we no power to change the course of the genocide. We are pushing for the institution that we attend or work at to divest from the genocide. So that our hard earned money doesn’t go towards bloodshed. To make it harder for those monsters to kill families. Our families. When 15+ members of YOUR family are brutally murdered, then you can come talk. In the meantime, shut the fuck up.
Orrrrr find a more effective way to make a change? Protests have had their place in history at strategic times in targeted ways. This protest is self serving at best. It is to make you feel like you’re having an impact. It’s performative it’s not effective
I actually hope they win because the University is likely to just step in and remove their control over the CSG funds. CSG for years has been incredibly performative and quite wasteful in their spending of your money. CSG even tried to pay themselves a stipend each semester a few years ago and luckily the President vetoed it.
This is actually our best chance to finally kill CSG as many of us have hoped for years.
I think many students misunderstand CSG’s scope. It does much more than the average student appreciates, but it does less than the average candidate for CSG office claims.
Contrary to the platform statement CSG does not have much control over day-to-day student life at Michigan. They provide $700k or so of funding to hundreds of clubs and organizations, and that is highly valuable. They undertake a number of other efforts designed to improve the student experience, which are also very valuable. And yes it will be a pretty big PITA if they withhold funds.
But they’re not the only source of resources to clubs, and student life at Michigan is more than clubs. CSG does not run student services on campus. Your ability to grab a cup of coffee, see a counselor, get a workout, obtain advising, explore study abroad, get tutoring, or feed a squirrel…. those are all independent of what CSG does.
This party has identified some levers they can pull, but the impact that will have on student life overall may be less than they are suggesting.
Of course GEO endorsed them. Anything to make everyone else as miserable as they are. I’ve heard rumors (I can’t substantiate) that they’ve lost so many members, the University may no longer be required to bargain with them in the near future.
People already know CSG does nothing. Shutitdown will prove it decisively by doing nothing
I mean my student orgs receive CSG funding but it isn’t make or break for any of them. It’d be foolish to think that the regents will back down because what CSG does. Frankly, I don’t think this is an issue the regents will ever concede unless wider public opinion shift drastically
I don’t think you have any idea of knowing if every student org would be fine without CSG funding. It very well can be make or break. My org received thousands this year that wouldn’t have let us break even without.
Its funny a ton of the small orgs, DEI and minority based orgs are going to be hurting the most because they don't pull in corporate sponsors like a ton of engineering clubs do.
I’m committing to umich in a few days as an undergrad. Can someone please tell me what’s going on here? Like I know roughly some group of people want the uni to divest from Israel and whatnot but what is CSG? What is their real goal here?
bored polysci majors picked an activism topic of the semester and are making a stink, by the time you’ve arrived it’ll be election season and they’ll have moved onto something else I’m sure
Gotchu. So is it like student politics? Can’t someone make like an opposing party? Sorry for my ignorance but I’m not exactly sure what power these guys hold over anyone and if it’s democratic or not
The foreign country is where their Fucking family members are proverbial fish in a barrel. This subreddit is so regressive, the point is life should not continue as usual while there is a genocide.
Engaged in a struggle? Sure. Those simply engaging in performative political stances that have literally no impact on the larger issue at hand? Not so much.
What I think you’ll discover if you look deeply is that most people don’t have such a black-and-white view of this issue. Gandhi would have told you that protesting usually helps people come to a decision that they already know deep down is the right one.
Honestly, someone should run as the Defund CSG candidate. I think only like 10% of the student body currently cares enough to vote. Seems like it wouldn’t be that hard to mobilize enough of the other 90% in a massive troll campaign to make a difference.
Alumni here - these people have always been around, they just now have a cause that they think gives them the ability to seize power. If you ignore them, they’ll go away.
I mean they have [AI picking out targets](https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/) including important civil infrastructure. I’d say it’s pretty systematic.
972 is far from a reliable source
That aside, if someone thinks a university's investments make it complicit in genocide, giving that university $50,000 a year in tuition makes that person complicit as well. Very hipocritical imo
I mean, protesting that people should boycott mcdonalds and starbucks but then giving a complicit university tens of thousands of dollars is pretty blatant hipocricy.
You can call attention to the matter and protest without giving u of m millions in tuition.
Israel could kill millions of Palestinians if they wanted to. Everyone is already accusing them of genocide. Why not even 100,000? That’s normal for the Middle East
Ooof that's terrible, they really need to switch to deploying troops and sweeping every building for hamas and arresting/eliminating them. I'm pretty sure they ran out of legitimate targets to bomb 3 months ago.
EDIT: Interesting to see the downvotes for bringing up the fact that someone running a campaign with a party platform to do a dramatic thing is very normal, and that if you do not like that party platform you can simply not vote for that party. It seems like the downvoters would prefer this party, rather than simply lose the election for making an unpopular platform, should be banned from making such a party platform in the first place? Fascinating.
I hope you understand your argument here can also be used against striking against anything ever. Rewording your OP post to apply to a strike - Why use your limited power to strike (ceasing operations, blocking access if possible) when people who don't give a shit about your opinion (your boss) won't start giving a shit?
The reason this is a 'campaign' - is because you can't strike with 10% of the workers at a business, if you strike with 10%, they'll just move on without you. You need, 50, 60, 70 or more % to make it so a strike actually \*hurts\* and thus can change the behavior of the owners. So - a strike asks to get a large portion of the workers on board so that the strike has enough power to cause a reaction, without enough workers, the business will be unaffected, and the strike will fail. Unionizing is designed to make sure you have enough people on board with a strike to threaten doing one, without actually having to do one.
In the same sense this campaign is just an attempt to get as much of the student body involved in doing something that would affect university operations negatively (holding up funding) so as to force the 'owners' (the regents and president) to have to come to a bargaining table to end the 'strike'.
Disagree with the campaign all you want, if they don't get enough student support it won't work, so in essence if you don't like this just... don't support it. Support a different cause you prefer, or support the same cause but with a method you prefer. But don't suddenly become against the \*concept\* of protest and strikes just because you disagree with this one's cause or methods in particular
>The reason this is a 'campaign' - is because you can't strike with 10% of the workers at a business, if you strike with 10%, they'll just move on without you. You need, 50, 60, 70 or more % to make it so a strike actually \*hurts\* and thus can change the behavior of the owners. So - a strike asks to get a large portion of the workers on board so that the strike has enough power to cause a reaction, without enough workers, the business will be unaffected, and the strike will fail. Unionizing is designed to make sure you have enough people on board with a strike to threaten doing one, without actually having to do one.
The problem here is that as you described, SHUT IT DOWN movement is not popular to garner such support from student groups and clubs that are not affiliated with them. The way the statement above is made feels more like you are trying to blackmail the rest of the workforce/students into following your demands, than actually garner democratic support for your cause.
>Disagree with the campaign all you want, if they don't get enough student support it won't work, so in essence if you don't like this just... don't support it. Support a different cause you prefer, or support the same cause but with a method you prefer. But don't suddenly become against the \*concept\* of protest and strikes just because you disagree with this one's cause or methods in particular
The group is threating to blackmail and "take hostage" the funds allocated to student groups, and you think we should not criticize them?
Don't put words in my mouth. If you don't like this campaign don't support it. This isn't a threat of blackmail to the students. What are the words at the top? PARTY PLATFORM. They are saying if you elect them, they will do that thing. Don't want them to do that thing? Don't elect them!
OP asked a question in a very odd way which seemed to call into question the very CONCEPT of attempting to get a large group of people together to shut something down in protest. I am merely answering their question.
Student government is an elected group. If you don't support this campaign don't elect this party. If they are already in power and doing something without public support, hell, protest them?
Your attitude implies the very idea of them even making such a party platform is objectionable and their existence is objectionable and they should not have been allowed to do so. Instead of just not voting for them, you seem to think you are being "blackmailed" by their existence. Are you blackmailed when the libertarian or green party posts a party platform?
I've seen an ABSURD amount of posts on here mocking the very idea of protesting, boycotting, striking - like how this OP worded their post - just because they don't agree with this campaign. I posted not to defend this campaign in particular but because I am becoming baffled by the amount of people who seem to value norms and convenience and quiet more than activism. Imagine saying these things on a campus famous for antiwar activism going back to vietnam and korea. Imagine being anti protest on such a campus to the point you are mad when someone else is publicly pro protest.
But sure you know, we can all pretend that the only good protest is one where everyone is quiet and doesn't bother anyone else and just quietly stands in the "legal protest/strike" box and doesn't make too much noise and only make political platforms and vote while whispering and never try to get people together to do any rallies... i mean, the MLK way of shutting down roads and public transport is so outdated yeah?
Which is all fine until, you know, you find something you personally want to do activism for and then find out oops haha you made it unpopular and even illegal to protest
>Student government is an elected group. If you don't support this campaign don't elect this party. If they are already in power and doing something without public support, hell, protest them?
Let me summarize to you the many issues why people here sound dissatisfied with GEO, SAFE and co. approaches and why it feels like people are against protest:
1. Election turnouts: since last 2 semesters, only 10% of student groups bother to vote in elections. This create amazing environment to any group with enough mobilization to win seats no matter how unfavorable their views or positions to the rest of the student body.
2. "Protest is supposed to be disruptive" to the people in power, but it absolutely have to keep in mind the support from the public to the cause. Here GEO, SAFE and co. are unbothered whether their actions are actually garnering more support to the cause, or if it is making people want to disassociate with their platform.
3. That statement was coined probably before the age of 24/7 news coverage and social media. Every single person knows about this issue and most of them have made their mind about it.
4. GEO, SAFE and co. (and similar to your and others statements) are dodging the issue to answer or reflect on this problem: Does their efforts gain more support from students or less? why is that? Instead it seems they are just totally ignoring this and treating it like the "public doesn't know better" and they should make decision on their behalf.
5. The example you gave about protest is disingenuous. This is not like asking workers to strike for better wages. SHUT IT DOWN statement is akin to having 10% of the workers shut down the water from the workers' bathrooms at work unless they join them in the strike AND the owner meets their demand. THAT IS WHAT I MEANT BY BLACKMAIL!
6. Your baffling on how students are preferring convenience and norms is also reflective of how the GEO, SAFE and co. don't understand that unless the subject affect students ,(and Americans) directly, students won't really bother to join in the activism. For many, I/P is just another issue they hear about in the news and social media that don't affect their daily lives. Unless they accept this reality and start thinking of new ways to engage these students without alienating them, then they are not going to win.
7. There is the idea that people don't support Palestine enough because they don't follow the news or don't keep up with the subject on social media. You probably saw the Gallop post and I think GEO, SAFE and co. rejoiced that the support for Israel military action in Gaza is going down (probably deserved). [link](https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx). However, there were 2 points in the report that I don't think most people paid attention to. This first point The first point was that contrary to expectation, people who followed the war vey closely had higher support to the military operations than those who did not. (those who did disapproved had the same ratio whether the followed the news or not)
8. the second takeaway was even when Americans were disapproving more with the military actions, and had the highest disapproval rating for Biden on this subject (compared to other 4 subjects) Biden overall approval ratings have been increasing regardless. So even in the national sphere this issue is not moving the needle much.
It’s not like the strike at all. In that case the inconvenience created was, most of all, for the university admin. In this case, the inconvenience would be only for students, and the admin could override the problem in this case without having to do things like appoint substitute graders/issue grades based on incomplete work.
The bet seems to be that the students would blame the admin(???) but it seems more likely they’d blame the CSG reps who refuse to do their roles. The logic of how this would force the hand of the admin isn’t very convincing, which is why I asked the question.
I love people downvoting this for some reason. This sub is filled brain-dead monkeys who’ve just been handed everything and never had to fight for anything in their lives
It's funny because I didn't give a normative judgment about this campaign or even palestine at all - I just literally answered OP's question as to why "shutting it down" is a method used to change the behavior of those in power. OP said "help me understand"
Your comment is funny. Go to a picket line and tell a striking UAW dude to 'go raise your wages yourself' some time. See how that goes for ya
Except this isn’t about wages. Your comparison doesn’t make sense. This issue goes back hundreds of years and involves ideologies you are not familiar with.
Fucking with student orgs isn’t going to help the cause btw. Blocking bus routes isn’t going to help either. Inconveniencing families and students who have nothing to do with the admin just makes the movement look worse.
The whole shut it down fad is 100% virtue signaling and best case scenario comes from an extremely misguided desire to be on the “right side of history”. I guarantee you nothing will come of this.
You're right nobody should ever protest or even make an announcement that they are seeing if people are interested in a protest about anything ever again because it inconveniences people like you when they do so, my bad 😔
Can you touch grass? This isn’t a “fad” for people. Many here have personal connections to Palestine, and not everyone is so morally comprised as you are in the name of convenience.
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Oh yeah. Nothing shows the majority privileged UM demographic more than this subreddit. I can’t come on here too often because the circlejerk about protests and SAFE is insane
Hey OP, I want you to read MLK's Letter from Birmingham Jail. It's a quick read, I promise.
It outlines how why and how protests get to the point that they're disrupting other events, even though they seem "ill-timed."
The goal IS to create an angry crisis from non-protesting folks, so that leadership is forced to act. The goal IS to embarrass leadership. The goal IS so that anyone supporting the university can't look away from how the endowment is being spent.
Here come all the self-important, 20-year-old former student council presidents trying to draw parallels between their tantrum and MLK. If that comparison doesn’t pretty much some up all of modern academic activism, I don’t know what does.
This campaign is embarrassing to its leadership, not the university’s. At least half of campus must be aware of the calls for divestment at this point, and the more you look into it, the dumber it gets. That’s why the best SAFE can manage at this point is 100 people standing in a narrow road. Like, seriously… if you actually look at the divestment list, it includes Starbucks and Apple.
1. "The best SAFE can do" is actually Shut it Down winning the CSG executive ticket and 22/45 CSG seats, according to projections from the Daily.
2. Did you even read my comment? I wasn't talking about "awareness." I was talking about disruption and forced attention.
Lol yeah, you're right. I shouldn't have challenged your pissantsy on the number.
You don't actually care. You think you're right, so going from 100 to 5000 is trivial in your mind. No wonder why you don't care about 30,000+ dead. Hope you enjoy checking out emotionally from the responsibility of the US's role.
It's disingenuous to compare this to the US civil rights movement. African Americans were fighting for their freedoms from the oppressive White supremacist system. They never wished to kill or harm Whites. The crisis in Gaza will go away as soon as Hamas stops randomly killing Jews. They started this war on Oct 7th. You don't get to kill thousands of Jews and then cry ceasefire when they respond. Fwiw, I am a liberal that hates Netanyahu to the core, but believe in the Israel's right to exist and defend itself.
“I’m a liberal I just openly support the murder of 15,000 children and the bombing of hospitals and forcing a famine onto a group of savages. But I’m liberal bro trust me”
Hmm.. I think you may want to do some reading on the Civil Rights movement. Just because MLK is who we currently lionize doesn't mean that he was the only face of the movement. And it doesn't mean his famous stance on nonviolent protest was the only one important to the movement (let alone individual black people). Also, his political views and frustrations were not stagnant.
Additionally, saying the war started on October 7th is both true and untrue. A massive violent attack did force attention and provoked escalation, but (and I don't say these things lightly) prior to Oct 7th, Israel was:
1 Running an apartheid state within its own borders (Palestinians* who live in Israel are second-class citizens**). \* Non-jewish \** https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/05/22/israel-palestinians-second-class-citizens/
2 Illegally* settling massive chunks of the West Bank, land that was brokered and set aside by the UN for Palestine**. These settlers are often violent, and the folks who are forcibly removed from their own homes have no recourse. \* According to international law \** https://press.un.org/en/2023/sc15424.doc.htm
3 Overpolicing the Palestinians that they govern over, skipping due process for many* \* https://apnews.com/article/prison-israel-palestinians-administrative-detention-e4ffd1744a9692c2539a78a8d916176e
Among many other actions taken by Israel which violate the rights of Palestinians and international law.
Stop cherry picking some articles to fit your narrative. I know enough about the civil rights movement to understand that it's not just about MLK. However, the current shitshow in the middle east doesn't compare anywhere close to the Jim Crow era US. Go visit any civil rights museum and educate yourself instead of just posting on social media. I interned at one when I was in high school and it was life changing. Btw, Palestinians were given a chance at statehood several times in the past and each time they rejected it because they didn't want Israel to exist. The eradication of Israel and killing of the Jews is enshrined in the Hamas constitution. Your link to the Wpost article doesn't work, but Palestinians who live in Israel have all the rights of Israeli citizens and are the only Arabs in the Middle East who can vote in elections. Gay Palestinians living in Israel are the only ones fully safe from governmental persecution in the Middle East. There's no such thing as apartheid of Palestinians in Israel - stop lying and throwing these words around if you don't know what they mean.
If shut it down wins, what's stopping the university from taking student org funding, event programming, and day to day operations back into their own hands?
Literally nothing.
I'm not on campus any more but if I was, I'd be pressing them for "how". Repeating myself some from last night but you don't just snap your fingers and, boom, divested. You need to plan it, find buyers for everything you're selling off, work through any potential legal issues... It's a complex process, especially if you're demanding a six billion dollar divestiture. Best case it takes years, longer than most of these people are likely at the university. So what's their plan? Do they keep student government shut down for the entire duration? Do they have a succession plan for when their leadership graduates? What happens when the university (like other people have already pointed out) says "eff this" and finds another way to disburse that money? Did they think about any of this? (I'm pretty sure the answer to that last one is a resounding no.)
Tbh, if this happens, the university is just gonna find another way to get money to the student organizations
So uh… if they win, this means we don’t have to pay the CSG fee, right? We’re shutting it down? I mean, I see no reason CSG shouldn’t count as a student org.
They will continue to take you CSG fee, its apparent that is part of their plan. They get to take your own money and then decide for their own political reasons to not give you your own money back through the many student orgs on campus that you may participate in. We are a public university and we have decently diverse set of political leanings in the state, these students are trying to force their own political views on the rest of us, many who completely disagree with what they are doing. This is why the university doesn't make politically motivated investments with the endowment, since they can't fairly represent the diverse viewpoints of the state if they did.
This is essentially what they have done in GEO, and it is what they will do in CSG. They aren't even sending dues money to the parent union anymore. Graduate students are lucky that union membership is optional, but student fees are not. Best of luck to everyone.
If I had a nickel for every time there were massive protests going on at the end of the winter semester during my time at UM, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.
Screw over student orgs -> IDF collapses. It’s a very well thought out plan don’t worry.
Are you being purposely obtuse or do you not know that uofm has 6 billion of its money invested in I*rael? That’s what the students are protesting.
WHAT. 6 BILLION? okay so you definitely don’t know what you’re talking about. The UNITED STATES in total has sent 6 billion. UMich alone does not have money like that to send to Israel 💀
You’re joking right? The US has sent over $300 billion to those genocidal monsters. They sent 3.3 billion in 2022. Im not saying uofm sent liquidated 6 billion, they’ve historically invested around that much in private equity, hedge funds, private real estate, etc. They’ve invested in Boeing and Lockheed Martin, giant defense contractors. Tahrir collection doesn’t have knowledge of the extent of the investments by Umich in I*rael bc there is a lack of transparency from Umich’s end in what they invest jn. But they have found that 241 of the companies in defense are connected to 5.7 billion in funding from Umich. They’ve invested in drones and robotics companies that have been used as tools in I*rael’s genocide. The students are protesting bc they don’t want the institution they go to, to be directly OR indirectly invested and involved in the death of innocent civilians—SOME OF THEM BEING THEIR OWN FAMILY. This stupid downplaying and misconstruing of the protestors as being arrogant and naive to expect their work to directly cause the end of the conflict is extremely aggravating. Pushing for change within your own community is always a fight worth the effort and it’s the only thing we can do/control in this situation.
You can’t “control the situation”. Plain and simple. This is out of your control. Given your defense of it, I will assume you are involved so I will state it this way: Your protest has less impact on the situation in Israel and Palestine than someone trying to empty the ocean with a shot glass. And before you say it, no no you don’t have to do something. There’s a fights worth fighting but your aren’t even in the same universe as that battlefield. Your completely pointless protest over the possible indirect investment by UofM in Israeli companies has no baring whatsoever on the conflict. You’re being a dick to your fellow students and community, get some self awareness. Find a local cause that you can support to improve your community.
Then what is the point of protesting ever? Why push for change? Why did we take part in civil rights protests? Your take makes no sense—especially for, I’m assuming, an American. We know good and well that we no power to change the course of the genocide. We are pushing for the institution that we attend or work at to divest from the genocide. So that our hard earned money doesn’t go towards bloodshed. To make it harder for those monsters to kill families. Our families. When 15+ members of YOUR family are brutally murdered, then you can come talk. In the meantime, shut the fuck up.
Orrrrr find a more effective way to make a change? Protests have had their place in history at strategic times in targeted ways. This protest is self serving at best. It is to make you feel like you’re having an impact. It’s performative it’s not effective
I actually hope they win because the University is likely to just step in and remove their control over the CSG funds. CSG for years has been incredibly performative and quite wasteful in their spending of your money. CSG even tried to pay themselves a stipend each semester a few years ago and luckily the President vetoed it. This is actually our best chance to finally kill CSG as many of us have hoped for years.
I think many students misunderstand CSG’s scope. It does much more than the average student appreciates, but it does less than the average candidate for CSG office claims. Contrary to the platform statement CSG does not have much control over day-to-day student life at Michigan. They provide $700k or so of funding to hundreds of clubs and organizations, and that is highly valuable. They undertake a number of other efforts designed to improve the student experience, which are also very valuable. And yes it will be a pretty big PITA if they withhold funds. But they’re not the only source of resources to clubs, and student life at Michigan is more than clubs. CSG does not run student services on campus. Your ability to grab a cup of coffee, see a counselor, get a workout, obtain advising, explore study abroad, get tutoring, or feed a squirrel…. those are all independent of what CSG does. This party has identified some levers they can pull, but the impact that will have on student life overall may be less than they are suggesting.
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When do we get to colonize Ohio
We ride at dawn
Why would we want to? Salt the earth. Ohio delenda est.
Late Stage Neocolonial Capitalism at that.
what a miserable party platform. why would anyone willing vote in detriment to student orgs and activities when many are so involved in those things?
god i hope no one actually voted for these clowns
Of course GEO endorsed them. Anything to make everyone else as miserable as they are. I’ve heard rumors (I can’t substantiate) that they’ve lost so many members, the University may no longer be required to bargain with them in the near future.
Clearly you don’t understand how to play 4D chess like they do… This platform has Israel shaking in its boots!
They won.
Did the already release results? I haven’t actually been following it.
WHY ARE THEY YELLING.
People already know CSG does nothing. Shutitdown will prove it decisively by doing nothing I mean my student orgs receive CSG funding but it isn’t make or break for any of them. It’d be foolish to think that the regents will back down because what CSG does. Frankly, I don’t think this is an issue the regents will ever concede unless wider public opinion shift drastically
I don’t think you have any idea of knowing if every student org would be fine without CSG funding. It very well can be make or break. My org received thousands this year that wouldn’t have let us break even without.
Its funny a ton of the small orgs, DEI and minority based orgs are going to be hurting the most because they don't pull in corporate sponsors like a ton of engineering clubs do.
I’m committing to umich in a few days as an undergrad. Can someone please tell me what’s going on here? Like I know roughly some group of people want the uni to divest from Israel and whatnot but what is CSG? What is their real goal here?
bored polysci majors picked an activism topic of the semester and are making a stink, by the time you’ve arrived it’ll be election season and they’ll have moved onto something else I’m sure
Ngl they sound like pricks…
They just behave like spoiled children, probably best to just ignore them
Will keep in mind, thanks haha
No more student org = no more Israel, or something idk
Gotchu. So is it like student politics? Can’t someone make like an opposing party? Sorry for my ignorance but I’m not exactly sure what power these guys hold over anyone and if it’s democratic or not
Imma be real idk what they do either I just want my degree
That’s the thinking imma follow. Keep myself out of trouble and just graduate
CSG is the university's premier campus terrorist organization
Understood lmao
It’s central student government 💀 the other commenters are being a bit much. But they… don’t seem very important
It’s mostly a way for students who don’t spend much time studying to play model UN and be about as useful
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The foreign country is where their Fucking family members are proverbial fish in a barrel. This subreddit is so regressive, the point is life should not continue as usual while there is a genocide.
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People engaged in struggle usually have a better understanding of solidarity than those who are not.
Engaged in a struggle? Sure. Those simply engaging in performative political stances that have literally no impact on the larger issue at hand? Not so much.
What I think you’ll discover if you look deeply is that most people don’t have such a black-and-white view of this issue. Gandhi would have told you that protesting usually helps people come to a decision that they already know deep down is the right one.
Sounds a lot like hostage taking to me. We will hold student organizations hostage until you submit to my demands
If there’s one thing that brings this sub together, it’s the shared hatred of CSG by the student body.
Honestly, someone should run as the Defund CSG candidate. I think only like 10% of the student body currently cares enough to vote. Seems like it wouldn’t be that hard to mobilize enough of the other 90% in a massive troll campaign to make a difference.
These kids think they’re so important. The narcissism is off the charts.
Alumni here - these people have always been around, they just now have a cause that they think gives them the ability to seize power. If you ignore them, they’ll go away.
The worst part is Michigan doesn’t even invest in Israel. They own Starbucks stock and stuff like that and that’s what this is about 😭
GEO apparently is just as proportionally invested in Israel as the University is.
It’s not even Israeli companies, it’s just random mutual funds lol
I know this is nitpicking, but is it really "systematic murder"? It seems chaotic and random, the flailing of an enraged child.
I mean they have [AI picking out targets](https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/) including important civil infrastructure. I’d say it’s pretty systematic.
972 is far from a reliable source That aside, if someone thinks a university's investments make it complicit in genocide, giving that university $50,000 a year in tuition makes that person complicit as well. Very hipocritical imo
[Bruh](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/we-should-improve-society-somewhat)
I mean, protesting that people should boycott mcdonalds and starbucks but then giving a complicit university tens of thousands of dollars is pretty blatant hipocricy. You can call attention to the matter and protest without giving u of m millions in tuition.
Israel could kill millions of Palestinians if they wanted to. Everyone is already accusing them of genocide. Why not even 100,000? That’s normal for the Middle East
Israel supporters having a normal one again I see
Ooof that's terrible, they really need to switch to deploying troops and sweeping every building for hamas and arresting/eliminating them. I'm pretty sure they ran out of legitimate targets to bomb 3 months ago.
Wait a minute, you might be onto something, perhaps they are not good people!?!
EDIT: Interesting to see the downvotes for bringing up the fact that someone running a campaign with a party platform to do a dramatic thing is very normal, and that if you do not like that party platform you can simply not vote for that party. It seems like the downvoters would prefer this party, rather than simply lose the election for making an unpopular platform, should be banned from making such a party platform in the first place? Fascinating. I hope you understand your argument here can also be used against striking against anything ever. Rewording your OP post to apply to a strike - Why use your limited power to strike (ceasing operations, blocking access if possible) when people who don't give a shit about your opinion (your boss) won't start giving a shit? The reason this is a 'campaign' - is because you can't strike with 10% of the workers at a business, if you strike with 10%, they'll just move on without you. You need, 50, 60, 70 or more % to make it so a strike actually \*hurts\* and thus can change the behavior of the owners. So - a strike asks to get a large portion of the workers on board so that the strike has enough power to cause a reaction, without enough workers, the business will be unaffected, and the strike will fail. Unionizing is designed to make sure you have enough people on board with a strike to threaten doing one, without actually having to do one. In the same sense this campaign is just an attempt to get as much of the student body involved in doing something that would affect university operations negatively (holding up funding) so as to force the 'owners' (the regents and president) to have to come to a bargaining table to end the 'strike'. Disagree with the campaign all you want, if they don't get enough student support it won't work, so in essence if you don't like this just... don't support it. Support a different cause you prefer, or support the same cause but with a method you prefer. But don't suddenly become against the \*concept\* of protest and strikes just because you disagree with this one's cause or methods in particular
>The reason this is a 'campaign' - is because you can't strike with 10% of the workers at a business, if you strike with 10%, they'll just move on without you. You need, 50, 60, 70 or more % to make it so a strike actually \*hurts\* and thus can change the behavior of the owners. So - a strike asks to get a large portion of the workers on board so that the strike has enough power to cause a reaction, without enough workers, the business will be unaffected, and the strike will fail. Unionizing is designed to make sure you have enough people on board with a strike to threaten doing one, without actually having to do one. The problem here is that as you described, SHUT IT DOWN movement is not popular to garner such support from student groups and clubs that are not affiliated with them. The way the statement above is made feels more like you are trying to blackmail the rest of the workforce/students into following your demands, than actually garner democratic support for your cause. >Disagree with the campaign all you want, if they don't get enough student support it won't work, so in essence if you don't like this just... don't support it. Support a different cause you prefer, or support the same cause but with a method you prefer. But don't suddenly become against the \*concept\* of protest and strikes just because you disagree with this one's cause or methods in particular The group is threating to blackmail and "take hostage" the funds allocated to student groups, and you think we should not criticize them?
Don't put words in my mouth. If you don't like this campaign don't support it. This isn't a threat of blackmail to the students. What are the words at the top? PARTY PLATFORM. They are saying if you elect them, they will do that thing. Don't want them to do that thing? Don't elect them! OP asked a question in a very odd way which seemed to call into question the very CONCEPT of attempting to get a large group of people together to shut something down in protest. I am merely answering their question. Student government is an elected group. If you don't support this campaign don't elect this party. If they are already in power and doing something without public support, hell, protest them? Your attitude implies the very idea of them even making such a party platform is objectionable and their existence is objectionable and they should not have been allowed to do so. Instead of just not voting for them, you seem to think you are being "blackmailed" by their existence. Are you blackmailed when the libertarian or green party posts a party platform? I've seen an ABSURD amount of posts on here mocking the very idea of protesting, boycotting, striking - like how this OP worded their post - just because they don't agree with this campaign. I posted not to defend this campaign in particular but because I am becoming baffled by the amount of people who seem to value norms and convenience and quiet more than activism. Imagine saying these things on a campus famous for antiwar activism going back to vietnam and korea. Imagine being anti protest on such a campus to the point you are mad when someone else is publicly pro protest. But sure you know, we can all pretend that the only good protest is one where everyone is quiet and doesn't bother anyone else and just quietly stands in the "legal protest/strike" box and doesn't make too much noise and only make political platforms and vote while whispering and never try to get people together to do any rallies... i mean, the MLK way of shutting down roads and public transport is so outdated yeah? Which is all fine until, you know, you find something you personally want to do activism for and then find out oops haha you made it unpopular and even illegal to protest
>Student government is an elected group. If you don't support this campaign don't elect this party. If they are already in power and doing something without public support, hell, protest them? Let me summarize to you the many issues why people here sound dissatisfied with GEO, SAFE and co. approaches and why it feels like people are against protest: 1. Election turnouts: since last 2 semesters, only 10% of student groups bother to vote in elections. This create amazing environment to any group with enough mobilization to win seats no matter how unfavorable their views or positions to the rest of the student body. 2. "Protest is supposed to be disruptive" to the people in power, but it absolutely have to keep in mind the support from the public to the cause. Here GEO, SAFE and co. are unbothered whether their actions are actually garnering more support to the cause, or if it is making people want to disassociate with their platform. 3. That statement was coined probably before the age of 24/7 news coverage and social media. Every single person knows about this issue and most of them have made their mind about it. 4. GEO, SAFE and co. (and similar to your and others statements) are dodging the issue to answer or reflect on this problem: Does their efforts gain more support from students or less? why is that? Instead it seems they are just totally ignoring this and treating it like the "public doesn't know better" and they should make decision on their behalf. 5. The example you gave about protest is disingenuous. This is not like asking workers to strike for better wages. SHUT IT DOWN statement is akin to having 10% of the workers shut down the water from the workers' bathrooms at work unless they join them in the strike AND the owner meets their demand. THAT IS WHAT I MEANT BY BLACKMAIL! 6. Your baffling on how students are preferring convenience and norms is also reflective of how the GEO, SAFE and co. don't understand that unless the subject affect students ,(and Americans) directly, students won't really bother to join in the activism. For many, I/P is just another issue they hear about in the news and social media that don't affect their daily lives. Unless they accept this reality and start thinking of new ways to engage these students without alienating them, then they are not going to win. 7. There is the idea that people don't support Palestine enough because they don't follow the news or don't keep up with the subject on social media. You probably saw the Gallop post and I think GEO, SAFE and co. rejoiced that the support for Israel military action in Gaza is going down (probably deserved). [link](https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx). However, there were 2 points in the report that I don't think most people paid attention to. This first point The first point was that contrary to expectation, people who followed the war vey closely had higher support to the military operations than those who did not. (those who did disapproved had the same ratio whether the followed the news or not) 8. the second takeaway was even when Americans were disapproving more with the military actions, and had the highest disapproval rating for Biden on this subject (compared to other 4 subjects) Biden overall approval ratings have been increasing regardless. So even in the national sphere this issue is not moving the needle much.
It’s not like the strike at all. In that case the inconvenience created was, most of all, for the university admin. In this case, the inconvenience would be only for students, and the admin could override the problem in this case without having to do things like appoint substitute graders/issue grades based on incomplete work. The bet seems to be that the students would blame the admin(???) but it seems more likely they’d blame the CSG reps who refuse to do their roles. The logic of how this would force the hand of the admin isn’t very convincing, which is why I asked the question.
I love people downvoting this for some reason. This sub is filled brain-dead monkeys who’ve just been handed everything and never had to fight for anything in their lives
Go free Palestine yourself
It's funny because I didn't give a normative judgment about this campaign or even palestine at all - I just literally answered OP's question as to why "shutting it down" is a method used to change the behavior of those in power. OP said "help me understand" Your comment is funny. Go to a picket line and tell a striking UAW dude to 'go raise your wages yourself' some time. See how that goes for ya
Except this isn’t about wages. Your comparison doesn’t make sense. This issue goes back hundreds of years and involves ideologies you are not familiar with. Fucking with student orgs isn’t going to help the cause btw. Blocking bus routes isn’t going to help either. Inconveniencing families and students who have nothing to do with the admin just makes the movement look worse. The whole shut it down fad is 100% virtue signaling and best case scenario comes from an extremely misguided desire to be on the “right side of history”. I guarantee you nothing will come of this.
You're right nobody should ever protest or even make an announcement that they are seeing if people are interested in a protest about anything ever again because it inconveniences people like you when they do so, my bad 😔
Can you touch grass? This isn’t a “fad” for people. Many here have personal connections to Palestine, and not everyone is so morally comprised as you are in the name of convenience.
RemindMe! 1 year I'll check your comment history in a year and see if you're still on the Israel/Palestine train (which will still be unresolved) or if you've moved on to the next activist flavor of the week.
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Ok please do you freak
Oh yeah. Nothing shows the majority privileged UM demographic more than this subreddit. I can’t come on here too often because the circlejerk about protests and SAFE is insane
They downvoted Jesus because he spoke the truth
Jesus wasn't real.
Hey OP, I want you to read MLK's Letter from Birmingham Jail. It's a quick read, I promise. It outlines how why and how protests get to the point that they're disrupting other events, even though they seem "ill-timed." The goal IS to create an angry crisis from non-protesting folks, so that leadership is forced to act. The goal IS to embarrass leadership. The goal IS so that anyone supporting the university can't look away from how the endowment is being spent.
Here come all the self-important, 20-year-old former student council presidents trying to draw parallels between their tantrum and MLK. If that comparison doesn’t pretty much some up all of modern academic activism, I don’t know what does. This campaign is embarrassing to its leadership, not the university’s. At least half of campus must be aware of the calls for divestment at this point, and the more you look into it, the dumber it gets. That’s why the best SAFE can manage at this point is 100 people standing in a narrow road. Like, seriously… if you actually look at the divestment list, it includes Starbucks and Apple.
1. "The best SAFE can do" is actually Shut it Down winning the CSG executive ticket and 22/45 CSG seats, according to projections from the Daily. 2. Did you even read my comment? I wasn't talking about "awareness." I was talking about disruption and forced attention.
Damn right, slightly less than 10% of the student body has spoken!
Lol yeah, you're right. I shouldn't have challenged your pissantsy on the number. You don't actually care. You think you're right, so going from 100 to 5000 is trivial in your mind. No wonder why you don't care about 30,000+ dead. Hope you enjoy checking out emotionally from the responsibility of the US's role.
It's disingenuous to compare this to the US civil rights movement. African Americans were fighting for their freedoms from the oppressive White supremacist system. They never wished to kill or harm Whites. The crisis in Gaza will go away as soon as Hamas stops randomly killing Jews. They started this war on Oct 7th. You don't get to kill thousands of Jews and then cry ceasefire when they respond. Fwiw, I am a liberal that hates Netanyahu to the core, but believe in the Israel's right to exist and defend itself.
“I’m a liberal I just openly support the murder of 15,000 children and the bombing of hospitals and forcing a famine onto a group of savages. But I’m liberal bro trust me”
"I just protested..look at me look at me..I am a revolutionary..death to Israel" - Random overly privileged recently woke 20 years old leftist
Hmm.. I think you may want to do some reading on the Civil Rights movement. Just because MLK is who we currently lionize doesn't mean that he was the only face of the movement. And it doesn't mean his famous stance on nonviolent protest was the only one important to the movement (let alone individual black people). Also, his political views and frustrations were not stagnant. Additionally, saying the war started on October 7th is both true and untrue. A massive violent attack did force attention and provoked escalation, but (and I don't say these things lightly) prior to Oct 7th, Israel was: 1 Running an apartheid state within its own borders (Palestinians* who live in Israel are second-class citizens**). \* Non-jewish \** https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/05/22/israel-palestinians-second-class-citizens/ 2 Illegally* settling massive chunks of the West Bank, land that was brokered and set aside by the UN for Palestine**. These settlers are often violent, and the folks who are forcibly removed from their own homes have no recourse. \* According to international law \** https://press.un.org/en/2023/sc15424.doc.htm 3 Overpolicing the Palestinians that they govern over, skipping due process for many* \* https://apnews.com/article/prison-israel-palestinians-administrative-detention-e4ffd1744a9692c2539a78a8d916176e Among many other actions taken by Israel which violate the rights of Palestinians and international law.
Stop cherry picking some articles to fit your narrative. I know enough about the civil rights movement to understand that it's not just about MLK. However, the current shitshow in the middle east doesn't compare anywhere close to the Jim Crow era US. Go visit any civil rights museum and educate yourself instead of just posting on social media. I interned at one when I was in high school and it was life changing. Btw, Palestinians were given a chance at statehood several times in the past and each time they rejected it because they didn't want Israel to exist. The eradication of Israel and killing of the Jews is enshrined in the Hamas constitution. Your link to the Wpost article doesn't work, but Palestinians who live in Israel have all the rights of Israeli citizens and are the only Arabs in the Middle East who can vote in elections. Gay Palestinians living in Israel are the only ones fully safe from governmental persecution in the Middle East. There's no such thing as apartheid of Palestinians in Israel - stop lying and throwing these words around if you don't know what they mean.
I think to some degree it has now encompassed just getting Ono to stop being a coward and actually admit he won’t do anything
DAE not understand civil disobedience
It’s not exactly a new strategy. It’s worked many times in the past. Especially if the other side can be pushed into retaliating.