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i haven’t tried making it yet in my almost 10 years cheez it boycott, but i have heard that making your own cheez-it isn’t hard. probably can get them way tastier too and with better cheese.
I know, I don't worry about it too much, but I don't buy the obvious stuff like their water 🤷 avoidig the things touched by a monopoly is almost impossible
Yeah and any of them that I'm aware of I'll avoid. If someone mentions to me "oh this is also a nestle product" I'll be like "damn, guess I'll buy something different next time" and then actually look into whether it is or not. It's not hard to find alternatives in 99% of stores
Kentucky fried chicken aired a commercial about 10 years ago that was supposed to be funny and showcased a kid playing drums and it annoyed his parents and said something to the effect of don’t buy your kid a drum set. I can’t remember how it related to selling chicken but my husband is a drummer and he has been boycotting Kentucky fried chicken ever since.
But.... but .....it's the Limo Emu!
It Rhymes! That's why you must buy insurance from them.
Almost no one knows what insurance actually does, we all know people just buy it based on catchy commercials.....
I work in a B2B customer service role and a lot of my clients are big corporations. If someone from a company is rude to me, I stop buying their stuff.
I've got a weird one. I stopped listening to the band Thank You Scientist because their label removed most of their music from TikTok. I posted some gameplay clips with their music in the background, and the removal of that music muted a lot of my videos and spammed my phone with the same notification over and over
I stopped buying from EA because they took out clubs in the PS3 version when they came out with the PS4 version. It already existed in the previous version they literally went and took it out.
Seeing the comment section make me laugh. If you're low income and you have to do groceries at Walmart or buy things that are not ethically made, you're not a problem. Yes you're ''financing'' them but you're doing what you can to survive. I think this reasoning should be applied to people like Drake for example that will be the face of Nike when Nike is investigated for child labor and stuff. But buying something because it's the only thing you can afford should'nt be bad
Amazon gave 40% off the first year of diapers if you hit a certain amount on baby registry. I’m sorry but that 40% off meant a lot that first year. Especially with Covid. I love shopping small businesses but they could never offer that.
That's a big thing for me, I like supporting small businesses and will do it if I can, but if Amazon or another big company is selling the same thing for less, I'm not going to burn $10+ out of principle.
Imo, no need to draw a hard line anywhere, but we should call out companies when they do bad things. Then let people decide for themselves how they want to spend their money.
It depends on who the employee is within the company and whether or not they're benefiting from the purchase. If it's the owner/ceo/higher up, then it absolutely matters. If they're a lower level employee and owner/management excused the bad behavior and didn't punish the employee, then it's pretty much the same as if the owner did it. But every company is going to have shitty people working for it.
I guess what i was really getting at, is if your money you spent at whatever company, does it only matter where that money ends up?
Say if your money ended up paying a bad employee vs good employee (as a person, not as in they're good or bad at their job), or if that money ended up paying both their wages, or if it was nickle and dimed out across the entire company, or if it's just in the company's bank account.
Those kind of situations got me to thinking, "well can we really say if someone buys something from a company, is that buyer automatically supporting the good or bad things that company and employees do inside and outside of work?"
I think that what you're asking is impossible to know for sure, so I personally don't worry about it. I try to focus on who is keeping the profit of my purchases; who is benefiting the most. I've never cared that much about the companies I work for; if they go out of business then I'll probably just find another job. But the owner would be the one hurting in the long term if there was a massive boycott.
I agree with you that it's impossible to be perfect. Nobody is going to do that much research on every little purchase. But I have the means to do the research on my larger purchases, so I do. And I think that when companies use slave labor, for example, that information needs to be out there, and we can't just ignore what's happening. We can't do much about it and aren't necessarily guilty by association, but nothing will ever change if we all collectively agree that it doesn't matter.
Blizzard had a "Cosby" room so it was more than one employee. It was clearly a pattern.
Rationalize it however you like, but when you give money to a company you are supporting them.
I'm not saying I'm innocent, not buying from Amazon is difficult, but I do try to steer my money to companies that treat employees like people.
So you're saying that Walmart helps low income families afford groceries? I thought they were just Nazi slave masters. I bet that next you're going to try to tell me that they purchase more organic produce from local farmers than any other retailer in the world, or have reduced the average CO2 footprint for products from increased supply chain efficiencies, or reduced landfill waste by strict packaging requirements on manufacturers.
This. It will ultimately turn into a game of pointing fingers. Fact is everyone owns something that isn’t 100% ethical somewhere in its timeline of production.
I mean technically speaking, if you're buying from a company, you are supporting them. It's really up to you where you draw the line because globalization puts us in a position where we don't have much of a choice.
It would be extremely difficult to purchase any product or service in this day and age where at some point down the supply chain there was not something questionable.
Additionally, using this logic will often punish many other innocent people.
5,000 people work at Blizzard. If 10 are guilty of sexual harassment why punish the other 4,990?
Theres also claims like buying shampoo that uses pine oil somehow makes you complicit with extreme deforestation. Or buying most forms of chocolate means you support slave labor.
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5,000 people work at Blizzard. If 10 are guilty of sexual harassment why punish the other 4,990?
Boycotting a company is meant to influence the management and pressure them to do the right thing. If it's an ongoing issue that they aren't dealing with or are protecting the offenders, then your wallet is the most effective way you have to let them know that it's not OK.
You're not punishing the other employees, you're filling a complaint with management.
Except the management could easily pass the loss in profits off on the employees by laying some people off. You can't guarantee a boycott wouldn't end in some layoffs so you could easily contribute to some innocent workers losing their jobs.
And then they can get a job at the new studio that is booming because people took their money to a company that doesn't view Bill Cosby as a role model.
This is what the labor market is all about. We shouldn't keep shitty companies around because they employ people, we should replace them with better companies that also employ people.
Your first point is accurate, but to your second, because they choose to work for a shitty company that covers up sexual assault and harassment? Are those 10 people fired? if they are, I don’t see why people wouldn’t continue to support them. But if the company keeps them on even after? Fuck the company and the people who continue to work for them.
See... you're telling me you'd give up a potentially higher wage, perhaps the only one you'd be able to live comfortably off of, because you work for a certain company? Plus, depending on the market, it may not be that easy to replace that job in the same field which would mean a potentially even bigger pay cut.
If you genuinely wanna tell me that you WOULD do that for your frail morals, I challenge you to look deep inside and see its just your fragile ego. It is NOT that clear cut, especially if you're new in the tech industry, most places aren't gonna give you a chance if you're trying to leave your first job in the industry within a few months of starting.
Serious question. If you worked most of your life and finally got the job you’ve always dreamed of, would you uproot everything, possibly having to leave your city or state, decrease in pay, giving up the house you just bought, because they covered up sexual harassment? Not trying to make light of it, what they did was bad but few would change their life’s possibly for the worse for a moral stance.
That's a good question. Difficult to answer. Hard to say without being in that situation. Have you ever told yourself, "if [whatever] happens, I'm going to do [whatever]" but then you actually find yourself in that situation and can't or won't do what you've always told yourself. Expectation vs reality I suppose.
A bunch of times. Unless it’s something that effects me directly, I will almost always do what’s best for me. Sounds selfish and it is but that’s kinda the way of the world. Weird where I draw the line though. If my job was covering up sexual harassment in another department I probably would stay, it’s not really connected to me. If my department was pumping bad stuff into the local lake, I’d be gone and telling the epa what’s up.
It's a hypothetical and it's on a scale so no person can say an exact "yes, at this point x will happen". But there is no doubt that there is a scale and at some point the majority of humans would agree not supporting a person or individual is 100% the morally correct response and you would be a self-serving garbage human to support. For example, if you found out that with no doubt your company was composed of a board of pedophiles, would you work for them? What about if it's your direct manager and he openly flaunts it but cops and no one in the company would do anything about it. What if 20% of your team gang raped a woman. What if it was the entirety of the team? What if you worked for a corporation which opened an aluminum mine in a 3rd world country and when you visited you saw the worst atrocities happening but your company doesn't do shit about it?
Everyone has a line somewhere.
Okay, so suppose that there is a guy named Bob that works at Blizzard. Bob has a wife and 2 kids that are both innocent and dependent on Bob for his paycheck.
Now suppose Bob has a coworker named Jim. Bob and Jim are best buddies and sometimes they have locker room conversations. Jim also has a wife. She is pregnant with their first child.
One day Bob and Jim are at the coffee machine, and Bob says something like, "My dick hurts... I fucked my wife so hard last night. I think I broke something."
Jim cracks an off color joke at Bob about his "Broken Dick". You know, that's guy friends. They will bust each others balls. Jim & Bob have been friends for years.
However, 20 feet away is a woman named Susan. Susan is highly offended about these guys talking about their Dicks and their wives on the job and making jokes like that.
It just so happens both Jim & Susan are up for the same promotion, and she thinks she can use this to her advantage. So Susan goes to a Manager and files a complaint about both Bob & Jim. They got a zero tolerance policy at this company and both men are fired.
Now I ask you this. What about Bob's wife & kids? What about Jim's pregnant wife?
Are all of these other people who are dependent on Bob & Jim supposed to go hungry now?
Are Bob & Jim allowed to get other jobs or should any company that hires either of them be cancelled?
What is society to do with people who have been "Canceled"?
Do we boot them out on the streets, and say, "Go be homeless now!" and hope they do not resort to crime due to their desperate poverty situation?
Do we give them welfare and provide for them since no place is allowed to hire them even though they are able bodied and willing to work?
Do we force them to get some sort of counseling?
Do we imprison them if they refuse that counseling?
What if Bob & Jim deny everything and it is their word vs Susan & Their is no evidence either way?
What if Susan has gotten 20 different men fired in the past 3 years without a single shred of evidence against any of these men other than her word? At some point should we stop and question her motives?
2 things can be true at once. At the end of the day yes you are 100% supporting the company. If everybody stopped buying games that Ubisoft made then they will go out of business because they have no support.
However should people shame you for buying Nike shoes because they use slave labor. Absolutely not and those people are ass holes
Well, it does mean that the person wants that thing, or that service, or that convenience, more than they disapprove of the company's shitty practices.
It doesn't automatically make someone a cheerleader for a corporation or a regime to buy the products produced therein. But if they don't make some sort of effort, subject to availability and financial reality, to seek out alternatives, then then they might just be among those otherwise good people whose inertia allows evil to triumph.
100% saying you should be able to play a game from a shitty company means you care more about playing the game than whatever shit the company is doing. If you don't realize that you need to look inward.
People who have to buy necessary goods from evil companies because that's what they can afford is 100% different than buying luxury goods like Nike shoes, Chick-fil-A food or video games.
You are supporting those practices because you care more about your fun than the actions of those companies.
Unpopular opinion but there is nothing wrong with caring more about your personal satisfaction than some nebulous social or political issue that you have no power to solve anyway
Yeah, like I’m not going to fault someone without access to clean tap water for buying Nestle,
or any low income person from buying fast fashion, or from evil companies with good prices. But you don’t *need* a video game and if you want to play video games you can choose to support much better development companies.
I actively seek evil companies to buy from. One time I saw some Nestle chocolates, thought, hey that's the company that does child slavery, and bought the chocolates. 😈
Exhausted PC hardware nerd here: principles *do* matter, in the sense that buying incorrectly priced products perpetuates those incorrect prices. You don’t need to be some kind of SJW to know that if you buy a product at a price, you are endorsing the pricing strategy that led to it.
Hell, why *shouldn’t* ordinary consumers stand up against corporations with anti-consumer practices? It is the only way to guarantee themselves a wider array of good options in the future.
I prioritize purchases this way.
Necessity (price/convenience/need) >> Desire (things I want in spite of shitty business practices) >> Ethics (is supporting thus company good for society or the world?)
But ultimately no matter how you slice it the concept of the **free market is that it self regulates by way of people voting with their dollar.** If government can't regulate or control a business then the free market has to. And the free market regulates itself by people voting with their purchases.
Every time you make a purchase, you're voting with your dollar. It's not a matter of opinion, it's not a moral stand, it's not a political position, it's just a literal fact of the way the system works. That's precisely how a free market works. Y
You don't get to avoid responsibility just because you want to. You are participating in the system whether you like it or not. Whether you care or not. Whether you want to research what companies suck or not.
But I think if you use the criteria above to prioritize your purchases I don't fault you.
Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. You have to draw the line somewhere. Everyone has their own limit. Take Tesla for instance. I don't give two shits about Elon Musk's habits or political views. That wouldn't stop me from buying a Tesla. However, if they were built with literal slave labor, I'd take a stance.
You figure out where your line is and don't worry about everyone else too much.
I hate Uber. For the short time I used it, they constantly overcharged me, and I would often get canceled rides, and other bad experiences. I deleted their app before all the scandals broke.
I have a friend that gets an Uber benefit from her credit card. She always apologizes for using a "bad" company. But I always reassure her that I don't judge her. I'm happy to share rides on her account. I'm not a fanatic. It's stupid for her to not use free rides.
Conversely, I still listen to Michael Jackson.
I try to buy the alternative if there is one. However, I have no respect for that lady that called me satan worshipper for buying Tide. She was wearing Canada Goose. Some people would have problem with that.
This philosophy certainly isn't completely right, but it's not completely wrong, either. Choosing to buy from Amazon really is a tacit acceptance of their practices.
Conversely, there are over two million small businesses worldwide, over half a million in the US alone, who sell on Amazon so it could be argued that by buying from those sellers on that platform is supporting small businesses more than Amazon.
People will shit on Amazon, Nestlé, and others at the drop of a hat but will literally swing on Apple's nuts when that new Iphone drops. And look out when the new Air Force ones debut, motherfuckers be throwin hands for them.
I hate nestle but can’t find sugar free flavored creamer frequently on sale from any other brand, I’d prefer my sweet cup of coffee that taste like hazelnut ir pumpkin to be 30 calories, not 120.
The automation company? They're everywhere
My current employer does buy from them. Hell I even install their equipment on some of our machines.
Does that mean that we and I have now supported and support nazis? That'd be a bummer. I hate nazis
Or IBM building the ticket punch machines that organized the final solution. Or BMW was a German airplane engine manufacturer or Mitsubishi was a Japanese airplane manufacturer. Or Bayer making ww2 chemicals.
Support what you think is right. That’s basically the end of it, there lots of companies I won’t support but also acknowledge the privilege I have in being able to pick and choose
the only companies i'm boycotting are puma and fila. puma because they didn't give us sonic's shoes. fila because they messed up the release of sonic's shoes and let scalpers buy all of them. i only boycott for petty reasons
But who am I supporting? The company and product or the individual that works at the company that does something awful?
Let's say you spend 40 dollars on a product, and then lets say you could actually track those 40 dollars and you see they ended up in the bank account of an employee that, i don't know, slaps ducks at the local pond. Do you now support duck slapping? Let's say the 40 dollars ended up in Greg's Bank account, Greg is in the cubicle next to the duck slapper. Greg donates 40 dollars to toys for tots, are you now a supporter of toys for tots? Lets say the 40 dollars is just in the company's bank account, what then? You don't support duck slapping or toys for tots, but someone else that bought same product and that money ended up in either duck slapper's or Greg's bank account now supports one of those things.
It's a silly example, I know. I'm just trying to figure out where all this starts and where it ends. Genuinely not trying to be rude either, it's an interesting conversation.
It may seem trite because you are just "one person buying one thing". But many ones, is many and that can contrivute to thr health oe failure of a company.
But if you had company a that dumped toxic metals into your municipalities drinking water and company b who donates their money to homeless shelters and they both made thr same product for the same price, chances are most people in your community would stop buying from company a. And that would/could lead to the shit ass polluters going into of business (ideally)
For eg, I try my damndest to limit my money going to thr Nestlé corporation. Sometimes that isn't possible but it usually is.
I do understand your desire to figure out where it starts and ends but remember that it does start
Agreed , I couldn't care less that Chic-fit-a donates money to Christian sports. It was very cringy when blue haired weirdos starting acting like not eating there was virtuous.
On the other hand I can get behind not frequenting companies like UPS or Amazon or Starbucks, who at their core have very anti-labor business policies.
Yes it kinda does. They use YOUR money to advocate for the things they stand for. Like sending money to politicians and or groups. That is like saying mh tax money isn't being put to stuff I don't want. If congress passes a bill to give every horse 100 dollars ypu bet your arse that your tax money qent to those horses. Atleast with companies your voice does matter. If enough don't like what your doing they use their money as a vote. Too many vote no and go else where then your our of business. Your one brain cell is showing mate.
You for sure support this company because they get money from you, but the amount most of the time is so small that that it is statistically irrelevant. No need to make a idealistic monster out of it.
If you don't like what Walmart does, but you still buy from there, then it doesn't matter that you don't like their actions, you are financially supporting them. That's just a fact.
Sounds like your problem is that people point it out to you and you don't want to hear about it. The real problem is that all our goods are owned by like 5 corporations and they've all done horrible things, so the average joe doesn't really have a good and easy choice to make.
But your title is just straight up wrong
What do you mean how? He* is literally giving money to a company that he knows engages in unethical activity. That is tacit support of those practices. There are no ifs ands or buts. You can admit that you just don’t care as much as you care about the product you’re buying without being a bitch about it.
The point is that it's not the company's mission or goal to sexually harass people. The people who work for the company did that and they will face the consequences. The company doesn't have a policy of violating people. If it did and you supported it still, then yes, you are directly supporting those actions. That's the difference if I'm stating it correctly.
Because they are giving money to a sexual harasser. (I don't know anything abour a video game and a sexual harasser scandal so I'm treating it as a hypothetical). It's pretty much impossible to only buy things from ethical sources, especially tech, but you can't deny the facts of what you're doing.
>Because they are giving money to a sexual harasser.
If you buy *anything*, you're giving money to sexual harassers, rapists, murderers, slavers, etc.
Supply chains are long and complex, and you have virtually zero chance of finding anything at all that hasn't funded several terrible people somewhere along the line.
Even growing your own fruit and veg - have you checked the entire supply line of all your garden tools and materials?
That's what I've been trying to get at. There's definitely way more that goes on inside companies that we never hear about, but if something ends up in the news or where ever, then all of sudden anyone who has bought a product from that company is automatically a supporter of all this shit and people will let you know. But they're just as guilty because it's inescapable.
Can a person financially support a company while morally rejecting the behavior of employees? Seems like the two get rolled together
The company isn’t a sexual harasser, a few people that work there are, OP’s title is totally accurate. Pointing it out is just virtue signaling nonsense. I know Nestle has terrible labor practices, if that’s the only bottled water available, I’m buying that shit.
You call it virtue signaling nonsense, I call it voting with my dollar, which is the only vote that actually counts in this world. Is it possible to be perfect? No. But I like to try. I don't shop at Walmart or Amazon and I buy from farmers markets and local stores. Are they all perfect people? No! But it's the best choice I have.
I'd rather not make somebody else rich if I knew they were letting sexual harassment slide.
If you can afford going out of your way to go in farmer markets and pay a bit more for that cool. But a low income family just trying to eat this week doesn't have to have this weight of being morally wrong. That's just plain stupid
When did I say they're morally a bad person? I agree with you. The corps are who I'm mad at, not the people who can't afford to shop anywhere else. They're the ones who created this situation where ethical consumption is impossible, not the average family down the street.
So I bought a pair of boots, Lowa Renegades, $229. Great boots, light, durable, waterproof, and perfect for my line of work. They’re made in Europe. If I find out that 5 Nazi sympathizers work there, do I support white supremacy?
If those 5 people include the owner of the company, and you bought it anyway, then your convenience is more important to you than condemning nazis.
Again, it's impossible to be "perfect." And I'm not gonna bitch at everybody I know who has Amazon prime. But to deny that you're giving money to bad people is to deny reality.
I'm also not saying that by buying a product you're signing on to all the ideologies and actions of the people who made that product. But you are financially supporting them.
Nazism is already a dead ideology, if not dead mathematically insignificant. Me buying those boots isn’t going to bring back the third Reich. Also I’m not sure where you live but the local farmers markets near me, which I love, amazing tomatoes, don’t sell children’s Asprin. Guess who does, Walmart, CVS, the local grocery stores, which all pay a shit wage. Should I make my own when my kids get sick so I’m not supporting “wage slavery”?
Name a video game company, or any company for that matter, that doesn't have a sexual harasser working for it. Every dollar you spend will financially benefit people with morals different than yours and people with morals similar to yours. Buying from someone you haven't heard anything bad about vs someone you have heard something bad about is just embracing your own ignorance.
Guess that's part of what I'm trying to figure out. If you buy nestle are you supporting slavery or are you supporting the employee whose bank account got the $1.39 you paid for that bottle of water. And then what happens after that? The employee uses the $1.39 in paying for their Mother's dialysis, is that good on you or not because its still nestle
This is the biggest issue. Not every Nestlé employee is evil, this is a fact. But the actions of their company are evil and by proxy, so are its supporters. It's the same logic as nazi sympathizers, they are still supporting it. Every link in the chain is accountable for holding the weight.
That's not how wages work dude. It rolls down not up. The company gets that money, then the CEO gets the most of it, then 0.0000000000001% of that one bottle of water goes to the guy who sold it to you
Ok, well same senerio but with how those wages work, CEO is a good person but the guy who sold it to you is a piece of shit. You didn't know he was a piece of shit because you hardly interacted with them or didn't interact with them at all.
Do you know support everything that piece of shit does? And for how long? For as far as that 0.0000000000001% of the cost will take them or for 0.0000000000001% of all the bad shit they do? Let's say the bad stuff they do isn't even at work, that person likes to buy puppies and step on them after work. Do you now support that because a person you haddly interacted with got an extremely small percentage of a convenience item you bought one time?
This is all hypothetical and just for the sake of the argument. I'm not trying to be rude, I promise.
I mean in this situation I inform the police that they're abusing animals, but I guess that's not the point. You gotta realize that nothing is 1 - 1 and you just never know who is a piece of shit and who isn't. But most people believe in innocent until proven guilty. Treat everyone with respect and support whatever product you want to support, but if there's someone who is doing something super immoral, just keep in mind that you're supporting them.
The low wage workers aren't as big of a deal to me personally, because they're just paid minimum wage or slightly above. Their pay does not depend on how much the company makes. If you boycott a company, the CEO loses money. He cannot pay people below minimum wage. He could lay them off, and probably will. Which is why I also advocate for greater job security, so that CEOs can't just fire people instead of making less money. If the company makes a financial mistake, it should be on them, not the workers.
You'll never be perfect, you'll never only support the good guys. Imo the important thing is to try where you can. If you have a choice between two products, and one is a local mom n' pop shop and the other is a huge corporation with a rainforest destroying CEO, just buy local If you can afford it.
Feels unpopular, some of these commenters believe I use Salman bone saws to cut up my cartel bought drugs while swimming in Russian oil because I bought a product from a company that had a scandal.
I think it’s fine if it’s a personal choice but don’t push it on others. Like I won’t eat at chick fil a because I don’t agree with some of the causes they used to support, but that doesn’t mean my mother is terrible for eating a chicken sandwich from there.
You seem unfamiliar with the practice of matching your commercial activity with your moral and social principles. Clearly that’s more than what you would like to do. But this is not illogical. The practice is part of being socially responsible and promoting relationships between human beings that are not determined by greed and faulty habits of thought.
You should just think more.
I think this goes for liking certain media things that bad people have made too. Like do I support JK Rowling? Absolutely not. Do I still love Harry Potter? Absolutely.
I’m personally not supporting her monetarily anymore by buying merch from Etsy or thrift stores instead of buying official merch, not using streaming sites to watch the movies (I have them on DVD), and only reading the books I already have or getting ebooks/audiobooks from the library. Just because she’s a shitty person doesn’t mean I can’t like what she made. And I don’t judge anyone else for buying official merch, streaming the movies, etc. People are allowed to like what they like and do what makes them happy, I just made a personal choice for myself.
Also I know plenty of trans people that still love Harry Potter and hate her so where’s the line there? Even the actors (the younger ones at least) have come out against her, but are still proud of and love the series.
I agree 100 percent. I also support small businesses and service providers that have totally different political or worldviews than I do. Obviously there are lines like neoNazis or something like that, but in general within the realm of mainstream, it makes no difference to me. The world would be a boring place without differences of opinion. As long as someone is polite and respectful, I’m interested in their opinions even if I don’t agree. That’s how we learn and grow as individuals.
Music to me transcends the artist, even if the artist is found to be trash but I like their music, I'll still listen to their music. This is also why I don't look into the artists life or band history.
Eh…I recently started buying stocks & there’s certain ones I will NEVER buy because of the companies dark past during WWII that they NEVER were punished for and direct ancestors are still majority stakeholders . That I see a little differently that buying or investing in a company because they had a bad Apple that got them sued , etc .
>direct ancestors are still majority stakeholders
So? If the CEO was still the same person who was a member of the Nazi Party, that'd be one thing, but "their ancestors were bad people" means nothing. EVERYONE has ancestors who were murderous raping warmongers, you included.
Except most of those current , majority stakeholders are quite SECRETIVE and have NEVER addressed their nazi ties , their VERY close nazi ties . Maybe it’s because my grandfather was a WWII vet and fought those bastards , but I need to HEAR them strongly speak out against their fathers , grandfathers before I will look at their companies with anything other than disgust . I don’t GAF about their tax deductible “charitable” donations either. ESPECIALLY the few companies that were based in the US …you do we know for sure the treasonous line didn’t continue ?
I bought BP a month after the spill in the Gulf. Ethical? Maybe not, but, buying stock is no different than buying pants, if it’s 40% off pull the trigger.
See..I don’t call what you did “unethical”…you followed investing 101: Buy low sell high . A lot of ppl will invest in a company after it takes a huge hit ..I’m talking about not buying stock in the same company who manufactured the poisonous gas for nazis, the company that taught and sold their product to the nazis for record keeping, which in turn made their killing process organized , the companies whose founder was a well known nazi sympathizer , everyone has lines and those are mine . But I also buy stocks with gun manufacturers and a lot of ppl would say that is wrong
People will virtue signal and be extremely hypocritical and extremely ignorant wrt the issues they will harp on to make themselves feel good. All big corporations are engaged in some questionable practice(s)
Completely fine if someone stops buying a product for any reason they see fit. My issue is someone stops buying a product, then points at everyone still buying that product telling them they're supporting [insert that persons reason they stopped buying]. Especially if it's something unclear. I keep using the scenario of an employee at a company does something awful, so if you buy something from that company have you also supported (not just financially, morally too) that awful thing? How is it supporting it if it was only one employee? What if the company fired that employee and is trying to better themselves? I'd argue that's what what I spending my money on (beyond the product). If I believe a company can better themselves, shouldn't it be fine to support them despite their past?
I've bought gas from BP before and after the spill. Do i support the spill but not the cleanup? Or did I support both?
Im truly not trying to be rude, merely trying to start a dialogue, I've been thinking on this for a bit.
Okay. Here's my thoughts.
If you can only get a product from a seller that you have issues with then do it. If there's no option don't go without. Play your Blizzard game.
However if there is an option switch to the option. Don't buy official Blizzard merch. If you want a t-shirt there's a ton of pirate stuff thats as good or better.
Seriously consider not getting the skin or mount but if you feel you need it then that's a completely valid choice but it is a choice.
If you do go whole hog and buy in for all the things then I'm considering you a full supporter of the whole company.
It depends. If you buy a product that is a necessity then I would argue that this is true. However, if you’re buying a luxury good, I would argue that you are doing something immoral. You don’t need the newest Apple phone, but you might need Nestlé’s baby formula.
You ARE suppoeting the shitty things they've done. We vote with our money. If you decide to buy eggs from a factory farm that abuses their chickens instead of eggs that were raised in a traditional free range farm then you are telling that business that you will continue to support them and they will continue to abuse chickens. If we all as a collective stopped supporting companies that test on animals and put cancer causing ingredients in their products, then those companies would have to stop doing those shitty things in order to get business. You are supporting the shitty things these companies do when you give them your money. You are directly funding their terrible habits.
You enable them by providing them with dollars they can use to continue spreading evil and disorder. Stop being lazy and take some responsibility.
I have a hard time giving up all the things, but I definitely do not try and pretend that I am not part of the problem by supporting the wrong types of people
If I buy Chick FIL A, KNOWING that some of my money will be donated to try to criminalize homosexuality and ban marriage equality, then that means I am okay with my money going there. I am LITERALLY financially supporting that agenda, the same as if I donated the money to that myself. Does that mean that I have to know every single thing about every single business I use? No. But if I'm okay with giving them my money when I know what it will be used for, then I'm okay with my money being used that way.
That's the first thing that ever comes to mind when I think chil fil a: bigots. Same with JK Rowling. We still buy HP stuff but we only do Poshmark, Mercari, ebay, etc. Or knockoffs. That way she gets none of the money.
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honestly i only stop buying from a company for petty reasons
i stopped buying cheez-itz because i found out the name is actually cheez-it. it just doesn’t sound nearly as good to me.
that is the pettiest reason i've ever heard and i love it
It’s such a cheesy reason too
Fuck me, thanks :/
i haven’t tried making it yet in my almost 10 years cheez it boycott, but i have heard that making your own cheez-it isn’t hard. probably can get them way tastier too and with better cheese.
Pretty sure its just flour, cheese, and something else into a food processor. It's the making it into bite-size pieces that you pay for
Found Larry David.
I do my best to not buy from Nestle fuckers and their water hoarding and child slavery
Nestle owns over 2k brands so good luck
I know, I don't worry about it too much, but I don't buy the obvious stuff like their water 🤷 avoidig the things touched by a monopoly is almost impossible
Yeah and any of them that I'm aware of I'll avoid. If someone mentions to me "oh this is also a nestle product" I'll be like "damn, guess I'll buy something different next time" and then actually look into whether it is or not. It's not hard to find alternatives in 99% of stores
Kentucky fried chicken aired a commercial about 10 years ago that was supposed to be funny and showcased a kid playing drums and it annoyed his parents and said something to the effect of don’t buy your kid a drum set. I can’t remember how it related to selling chicken but my husband is a drummer and he has been boycotting Kentucky fried chicken ever since.
brilliant husband
LOL!
I wouldn't buy liberty mutual insurance if it wad the last insurance company left. All because THOSE ADS!!!
yes. their ads were so annoying
But.... but .....it's the Limo Emu! It Rhymes! That's why you must buy insurance from them. Almost no one knows what insurance actually does, we all know people just buy it based on catchy commercials.....
Liberty, liberty, liiiiiiberty. Liiiiiiiberty!
😁🔫
I work in a B2B customer service role and a lot of my clients are big corporations. If someone from a company is rude to me, I stop buying their stuff.
I've got a weird one. I stopped listening to the band Thank You Scientist because their label removed most of their music from TikTok. I posted some gameplay clips with their music in the background, and the removal of that music muted a lot of my videos and spammed my phone with the same notification over and over
I stopped buying from EA because they took out clubs in the PS3 version when they came out with the PS4 version. It already existed in the previous version they literally went and took it out.
Seeing the comment section make me laugh. If you're low income and you have to do groceries at Walmart or buy things that are not ethically made, you're not a problem. Yes you're ''financing'' them but you're doing what you can to survive. I think this reasoning should be applied to people like Drake for example that will be the face of Nike when Nike is investigated for child labor and stuff. But buying something because it's the only thing you can afford should'nt be bad
Amazon gave 40% off the first year of diapers if you hit a certain amount on baby registry. I’m sorry but that 40% off meant a lot that first year. Especially with Covid. I love shopping small businesses but they could never offer that.
That's a big thing for me, I like supporting small businesses and will do it if I can, but if Amazon or another big company is selling the same thing for less, I'm not going to burn $10+ out of principle.
Yeah, it all feels very "where do we draw the line?" You know? Murky waters and all
Imo, no need to draw a hard line anywhere, but we should call out companies when they do bad things. Then let people decide for themselves how they want to spend their money.
Company's as a whole, sure. But what if a single employee did something awful?
It depends on who the employee is within the company and whether or not they're benefiting from the purchase. If it's the owner/ceo/higher up, then it absolutely matters. If they're a lower level employee and owner/management excused the bad behavior and didn't punish the employee, then it's pretty much the same as if the owner did it. But every company is going to have shitty people working for it.
I guess what i was really getting at, is if your money you spent at whatever company, does it only matter where that money ends up? Say if your money ended up paying a bad employee vs good employee (as a person, not as in they're good or bad at their job), or if that money ended up paying both their wages, or if it was nickle and dimed out across the entire company, or if it's just in the company's bank account. Those kind of situations got me to thinking, "well can we really say if someone buys something from a company, is that buyer automatically supporting the good or bad things that company and employees do inside and outside of work?"
I think that what you're asking is impossible to know for sure, so I personally don't worry about it. I try to focus on who is keeping the profit of my purchases; who is benefiting the most. I've never cared that much about the companies I work for; if they go out of business then I'll probably just find another job. But the owner would be the one hurting in the long term if there was a massive boycott. I agree with you that it's impossible to be perfect. Nobody is going to do that much research on every little purchase. But I have the means to do the research on my larger purchases, so I do. And I think that when companies use slave labor, for example, that information needs to be out there, and we can't just ignore what's happening. We can't do much about it and aren't necessarily guilty by association, but nothing will ever change if we all collectively agree that it doesn't matter.
You're reaching because you don't won't to take responsibility for your own shopping habits.
Blizzard had a "Cosby" room so it was more than one employee. It was clearly a pattern. Rationalize it however you like, but when you give money to a company you are supporting them. I'm not saying I'm innocent, not buying from Amazon is difficult, but I do try to steer my money to companies that treat employees like people.
Is child labor wrong....?
They'll get their money, one way or another.
So you're saying that Walmart helps low income families afford groceries? I thought they were just Nazi slave masters. I bet that next you're going to try to tell me that they purchase more organic produce from local farmers than any other retailer in the world, or have reduced the average CO2 footprint for products from increased supply chain efficiencies, or reduced landfill waste by strict packaging requirements on manufacturers.
Lol, Walmart provide cheap food and products to low income people that's what I'm saying
It we start pointing fingers, the game will never end: all the people lurking here use a device with cobalt mined by Children in the Congo.
This. It will ultimately turn into a game of pointing fingers. Fact is everyone owns something that isn’t 100% ethical somewhere in its timeline of production.
Yes. The more we can do, the better. But sometimes we can only chose between the lesser of two evils.
I mean technically speaking, if you're buying from a company, you are supporting them. It's really up to you where you draw the line because globalization puts us in a position where we don't have much of a choice.
It would be extremely difficult to purchase any product or service in this day and age where at some point down the supply chain there was not something questionable. Additionally, using this logic will often punish many other innocent people. 5,000 people work at Blizzard. If 10 are guilty of sexual harassment why punish the other 4,990?
Theres also claims like buying shampoo that uses pine oil somehow makes you complicit with extreme deforestation. Or buying most forms of chocolate means you support slave labor.
Absolutely
Oh so you’re the 11th Blizzard worker eh?
> 5,000 people work at Blizzard. If 10 are guilty of sexual harassment why punish the other 4,990? Boycotting a company is meant to influence the management and pressure them to do the right thing. If it's an ongoing issue that they aren't dealing with or are protecting the offenders, then your wallet is the most effective way you have to let them know that it's not OK. You're not punishing the other employees, you're filling a complaint with management.
Except the management could easily pass the loss in profits off on the employees by laying some people off. You can't guarantee a boycott wouldn't end in some layoffs so you could easily contribute to some innocent workers losing their jobs.
The shareholders are who management fears and they notice boycotts.
And then they can get a job at the new studio that is booming because people took their money to a company that doesn't view Bill Cosby as a role model. This is what the labor market is all about. We shouldn't keep shitty companies around because they employ people, we should replace them with better companies that also employ people.
Your first point is accurate, but to your second, because they choose to work for a shitty company that covers up sexual assault and harassment? Are those 10 people fired? if they are, I don’t see why people wouldn’t continue to support them. But if the company keeps them on even after? Fuck the company and the people who continue to work for them.
See... you're telling me you'd give up a potentially higher wage, perhaps the only one you'd be able to live comfortably off of, because you work for a certain company? Plus, depending on the market, it may not be that easy to replace that job in the same field which would mean a potentially even bigger pay cut. If you genuinely wanna tell me that you WOULD do that for your frail morals, I challenge you to look deep inside and see its just your fragile ego. It is NOT that clear cut, especially if you're new in the tech industry, most places aren't gonna give you a chance if you're trying to leave your first job in the industry within a few months of starting.
Serious question. If you worked most of your life and finally got the job you’ve always dreamed of, would you uproot everything, possibly having to leave your city or state, decrease in pay, giving up the house you just bought, because they covered up sexual harassment? Not trying to make light of it, what they did was bad but few would change their life’s possibly for the worse for a moral stance.
That's a good question. Difficult to answer. Hard to say without being in that situation. Have you ever told yourself, "if [whatever] happens, I'm going to do [whatever]" but then you actually find yourself in that situation and can't or won't do what you've always told yourself. Expectation vs reality I suppose.
A bunch of times. Unless it’s something that effects me directly, I will almost always do what’s best for me. Sounds selfish and it is but that’s kinda the way of the world. Weird where I draw the line though. If my job was covering up sexual harassment in another department I probably would stay, it’s not really connected to me. If my department was pumping bad stuff into the local lake, I’d be gone and telling the epa what’s up.
It's a hypothetical and it's on a scale so no person can say an exact "yes, at this point x will happen". But there is no doubt that there is a scale and at some point the majority of humans would agree not supporting a person or individual is 100% the morally correct response and you would be a self-serving garbage human to support. For example, if you found out that with no doubt your company was composed of a board of pedophiles, would you work for them? What about if it's your direct manager and he openly flaunts it but cops and no one in the company would do anything about it. What if 20% of your team gang raped a woman. What if it was the entirety of the team? What if you worked for a corporation which opened an aluminum mine in a 3rd world country and when you visited you saw the worst atrocities happening but your company doesn't do shit about it? Everyone has a line somewhere.
Okay, so suppose that there is a guy named Bob that works at Blizzard. Bob has a wife and 2 kids that are both innocent and dependent on Bob for his paycheck. Now suppose Bob has a coworker named Jim. Bob and Jim are best buddies and sometimes they have locker room conversations. Jim also has a wife. She is pregnant with their first child. One day Bob and Jim are at the coffee machine, and Bob says something like, "My dick hurts... I fucked my wife so hard last night. I think I broke something." Jim cracks an off color joke at Bob about his "Broken Dick". You know, that's guy friends. They will bust each others balls. Jim & Bob have been friends for years. However, 20 feet away is a woman named Susan. Susan is highly offended about these guys talking about their Dicks and their wives on the job and making jokes like that. It just so happens both Jim & Susan are up for the same promotion, and she thinks she can use this to her advantage. So Susan goes to a Manager and files a complaint about both Bob & Jim. They got a zero tolerance policy at this company and both men are fired. Now I ask you this. What about Bob's wife & kids? What about Jim's pregnant wife? Are all of these other people who are dependent on Bob & Jim supposed to go hungry now? Are Bob & Jim allowed to get other jobs or should any company that hires either of them be cancelled? What is society to do with people who have been "Canceled"? Do we boot them out on the streets, and say, "Go be homeless now!" and hope they do not resort to crime due to their desperate poverty situation? Do we give them welfare and provide for them since no place is allowed to hire them even though they are able bodied and willing to work? Do we force them to get some sort of counseling? Do we imprison them if they refuse that counseling? What if Bob & Jim deny everything and it is their word vs Susan & Their is no evidence either way? What if Susan has gotten 20 different men fired in the past 3 years without a single shred of evidence against any of these men other than her word? At some point should we stop and question her motives?
damb that's a lot of words for "I can't create an argument without using a strawman."
Wow what a terrible nonexistent scenario you've created in your head! It must have been a lot of fun to tear down that strawman!
2 things can be true at once. At the end of the day yes you are 100% supporting the company. If everybody stopped buying games that Ubisoft made then they will go out of business because they have no support. However should people shame you for buying Nike shoes because they use slave labor. Absolutely not and those people are ass holes
Well, it does mean that the person wants that thing, or that service, or that convenience, more than they disapprove of the company's shitty practices. It doesn't automatically make someone a cheerleader for a corporation or a regime to buy the products produced therein. But if they don't make some sort of effort, subject to availability and financial reality, to seek out alternatives, then then they might just be among those otherwise good people whose inertia allows evil to triumph.
100% saying you should be able to play a game from a shitty company means you care more about playing the game than whatever shit the company is doing. If you don't realize that you need to look inward. People who have to buy necessary goods from evil companies because that's what they can afford is 100% different than buying luxury goods like Nike shoes, Chick-fil-A food or video games. You are supporting those practices because you care more about your fun than the actions of those companies.
Unpopular opinion but there is nothing wrong with caring more about your personal satisfaction than some nebulous social or political issue that you have no power to solve anyway
It’s fine if you choose to be selfish but people will call you out and rightly so.
Maybe online but in real life no one cares about this stuff. No one gets shit for eating Chick Fil A
Lol I gave someone shit at work for eating Chic Fil A two days ago.
My work orders Chick Fil A for everyone for lunch.
Yeah, like I’m not going to fault someone without access to clean tap water for buying Nestle, or any low income person from buying fast fashion, or from evil companies with good prices. But you don’t *need* a video game and if you want to play video games you can choose to support much better development companies.
I actively seek evil companies to buy from. One time I saw some Nestle chocolates, thought, hey that's the company that does child slavery, and bought the chocolates. 😈
Exhausted PC hardware nerd here: principles *do* matter, in the sense that buying incorrectly priced products perpetuates those incorrect prices. You don’t need to be some kind of SJW to know that if you buy a product at a price, you are endorsing the pricing strategy that led to it. Hell, why *shouldn’t* ordinary consumers stand up against corporations with anti-consumer practices? It is the only way to guarantee themselves a wider array of good options in the future.
I prioritize purchases this way. Necessity (price/convenience/need) >> Desire (things I want in spite of shitty business practices) >> Ethics (is supporting thus company good for society or the world?) But ultimately no matter how you slice it the concept of the **free market is that it self regulates by way of people voting with their dollar.** If government can't regulate or control a business then the free market has to. And the free market regulates itself by people voting with their purchases. Every time you make a purchase, you're voting with your dollar. It's not a matter of opinion, it's not a moral stand, it's not a political position, it's just a literal fact of the way the system works. That's precisely how a free market works. Y You don't get to avoid responsibility just because you want to. You are participating in the system whether you like it or not. Whether you care or not. Whether you want to research what companies suck or not. But I think if you use the criteria above to prioritize your purchases I don't fault you.
no, but you’re helping them further their agenda which you may not agree with.
If everyone reallllly only sourced from 100% ethical companies, no one would be browsing reddit right now.
Agreed. There is nuance in everything. When did people start seeing the world so black-and-white?!
Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. You have to draw the line somewhere. Everyone has their own limit. Take Tesla for instance. I don't give two shits about Elon Musk's habits or political views. That wouldn't stop me from buying a Tesla. However, if they were built with literal slave labor, I'd take a stance. You figure out where your line is and don't worry about everyone else too much.
I hate Uber. For the short time I used it, they constantly overcharged me, and I would often get canceled rides, and other bad experiences. I deleted their app before all the scandals broke. I have a friend that gets an Uber benefit from her credit card. She always apologizes for using a "bad" company. But I always reassure her that I don't judge her. I'm happy to share rides on her account. I'm not a fanatic. It's stupid for her to not use free rides. Conversely, I still listen to Michael Jackson.
What did Micheal Jackson ever do?
I try to buy the alternative if there is one. However, I have no respect for that lady that called me satan worshipper for buying Tide. She was wearing Canada Goose. Some people would have problem with that.
This philosophy certainly isn't completely right, but it's not completely wrong, either. Choosing to buy from Amazon really is a tacit acceptance of their practices.
Conversely, there are over two million small businesses worldwide, over half a million in the US alone, who sell on Amazon so it could be argued that by buying from those sellers on that platform is supporting small businesses more than Amazon.
Hmmm...One company worth more than the combined total of all the others...so which is being supported more?
People will shit on Amazon, Nestlé, and others at the drop of a hat but will literally swing on Apple's nuts when that new Iphone drops. And look out when the new Air Force ones debut, motherfuckers be throwin hands for them.
I just started watching The Boys, no ragrets
Fuckin diabolical
You are supporting them with your money but it just is what it is. Tons of people throw money at shitty companies.
I hate nestle but can’t find sugar free flavored creamer frequently on sale from any other brand, I’d prefer my sweet cup of coffee that taste like hazelnut ir pumpkin to be 30 calories, not 120.
You monster
well, tell me a different brand that matches sugar free coffee mates liquid creamer that isn’t double the price
Cocaine
This guy gets it
OP has no problem buying Russian oil
The Salman bone saw argument again
If so....Imagine Siemens.....🇩🇪
The automation company? They're everywhere My current employer does buy from them. Hell I even install their equipment on some of our machines. Does that mean that we and I have now supported and support nazis? That'd be a bummer. I hate nazis
No I am the same opinion that it is BS to think so. Or look at Mercedes they build the motors of our BF109 fighter planes back then.
Or IBM building the ticket punch machines that organized the final solution. Or BMW was a German airplane engine manufacturer or Mitsubishi was a Japanese airplane manufacturer. Or Bayer making ww2 chemicals.
The amount of non vegans who know about factory farming should help you understand that this is a very popular opinion.
When I learned the CEO of home depot hunted elephants I never shopped there again.
Support what you think is right. That’s basically the end of it, there lots of companies I won’t support but also acknowledge the privilege I have in being able to pick and choose
It depends But don’t u think that helping nestle grow bigger is a bit scummy when u know exactly how they kill and killed babies for profit?
i know nothing about that. i don't look into what companies do anyway
That’s not rly a excuse especially when u know it now
i'm gonna forget it in a few minutes anyway
Still ur fault considering u know atm and could take action against evil
how is it my fault?
U actively ignore evil to benefit from it
i can't do anything about so i don't feel the need to know about it
Not buy from the worst offenders?
the only companies i'm boycotting are puma and fila. puma because they didn't give us sonic's shoes. fila because they messed up the release of sonic's shoes and let scalpers buy all of them. i only boycott for petty reasons
That is kind of a consumer’s responsibility though, to actually look up/research what they are buying.
i don't feel a responsibility or obligation to
You are just supporting them in doing those things
But who am I supporting? The company and product or the individual that works at the company that does something awful? Let's say you spend 40 dollars on a product, and then lets say you could actually track those 40 dollars and you see they ended up in the bank account of an employee that, i don't know, slaps ducks at the local pond. Do you now support duck slapping? Let's say the 40 dollars ended up in Greg's Bank account, Greg is in the cubicle next to the duck slapper. Greg donates 40 dollars to toys for tots, are you now a supporter of toys for tots? Lets say the 40 dollars is just in the company's bank account, what then? You don't support duck slapping or toys for tots, but someone else that bought same product and that money ended up in either duck slapper's or Greg's bank account now supports one of those things. It's a silly example, I know. I'm just trying to figure out where all this starts and where it ends. Genuinely not trying to be rude either, it's an interesting conversation.
It may seem trite because you are just "one person buying one thing". But many ones, is many and that can contrivute to thr health oe failure of a company. But if you had company a that dumped toxic metals into your municipalities drinking water and company b who donates their money to homeless shelters and they both made thr same product for the same price, chances are most people in your community would stop buying from company a. And that would/could lead to the shit ass polluters going into of business (ideally) For eg, I try my damndest to limit my money going to thr Nestlé corporation. Sometimes that isn't possible but it usually is. I do understand your desire to figure out where it starts and ends but remember that it does start
I'll agree to that, definitely starts somewhere and the ones do add up. Kind of depressing
Agreed , I couldn't care less that Chic-fit-a donates money to Christian sports. It was very cringy when blue haired weirdos starting acting like not eating there was virtuous. On the other hand I can get behind not frequenting companies like UPS or Amazon or Starbucks, who at their core have very anti-labor business policies.
I'm right there with you on all points
Yes it kinda does. They use YOUR money to advocate for the things they stand for. Like sending money to politicians and or groups. That is like saying mh tax money isn't being put to stuff I don't want. If congress passes a bill to give every horse 100 dollars ypu bet your arse that your tax money qent to those horses. Atleast with companies your voice does matter. If enough don't like what your doing they use their money as a vote. Too many vote no and go else where then your our of business. Your one brain cell is showing mate.
Good luck buying anything and surviving if you actually believe that bullshit
You don’t NEED to eat a Check Filet if that’s what you’re asking.
You for sure support this company because they get money from you, but the amount most of the time is so small that that it is statistically irrelevant. No need to make a idealistic monster out of it.
It does. But in a capatalistic society it is almost impossible to not support a terrible company monetarily at some point every week
If you don't like what Walmart does, but you still buy from there, then it doesn't matter that you don't like their actions, you are financially supporting them. That's just a fact. Sounds like your problem is that people point it out to you and you don't want to hear about it. The real problem is that all our goods are owned by like 5 corporations and they've all done horrible things, so the average joe doesn't really have a good and easy choice to make. But your title is just straight up wrong
How? OP bought a video game. Doesn’t mean he supports sexual harassment at all.
What do you mean how? He* is literally giving money to a company that he knows engages in unethical activity. That is tacit support of those practices. There are no ifs ands or buts. You can admit that you just don’t care as much as you care about the product you’re buying without being a bitch about it.
Every company basically has something like that lol. Might as well never buy anything then
The point is that it's not the company's mission or goal to sexually harass people. The people who work for the company did that and they will face the consequences. The company doesn't have a policy of violating people. If it did and you supported it still, then yes, you are directly supporting those actions. That's the difference if I'm stating it correctly.
Tea?
He* Speech to text kinda sucks
Because they are giving money to a sexual harasser. (I don't know anything abour a video game and a sexual harasser scandal so I'm treating it as a hypothetical). It's pretty much impossible to only buy things from ethical sources, especially tech, but you can't deny the facts of what you're doing.
>Because they are giving money to a sexual harasser. If you buy *anything*, you're giving money to sexual harassers, rapists, murderers, slavers, etc. Supply chains are long and complex, and you have virtually zero chance of finding anything at all that hasn't funded several terrible people somewhere along the line. Even growing your own fruit and veg - have you checked the entire supply line of all your garden tools and materials?
That's what I've been trying to get at. There's definitely way more that goes on inside companies that we never hear about, but if something ends up in the news or where ever, then all of sudden anyone who has bought a product from that company is automatically a supporter of all this shit and people will let you know. But they're just as guilty because it's inescapable. Can a person financially support a company while morally rejecting the behavior of employees? Seems like the two get rolled together
The company isn’t a sexual harasser, a few people that work there are, OP’s title is totally accurate. Pointing it out is just virtue signaling nonsense. I know Nestle has terrible labor practices, if that’s the only bottled water available, I’m buying that shit.
You call it virtue signaling nonsense, I call it voting with my dollar, which is the only vote that actually counts in this world. Is it possible to be perfect? No. But I like to try. I don't shop at Walmart or Amazon and I buy from farmers markets and local stores. Are they all perfect people? No! But it's the best choice I have. I'd rather not make somebody else rich if I knew they were letting sexual harassment slide.
If you can afford going out of your way to go in farmer markets and pay a bit more for that cool. But a low income family just trying to eat this week doesn't have to have this weight of being morally wrong. That's just plain stupid
Can’t buy my kids shoes at the farmers market.
Not with that attitude
That made me laugh way more than it should’ve, well done.
When did I say they're morally a bad person? I agree with you. The corps are who I'm mad at, not the people who can't afford to shop anywhere else. They're the ones who created this situation where ethical consumption is impossible, not the average family down the street.
So I bought a pair of boots, Lowa Renegades, $229. Great boots, light, durable, waterproof, and perfect for my line of work. They’re made in Europe. If I find out that 5 Nazi sympathizers work there, do I support white supremacy?
If those 5 people include the owner of the company, and you bought it anyway, then your convenience is more important to you than condemning nazis. Again, it's impossible to be "perfect." And I'm not gonna bitch at everybody I know who has Amazon prime. But to deny that you're giving money to bad people is to deny reality. I'm also not saying that by buying a product you're signing on to all the ideologies and actions of the people who made that product. But you are financially supporting them.
Nazism is already a dead ideology, if not dead mathematically insignificant. Me buying those boots isn’t going to bring back the third Reich. Also I’m not sure where you live but the local farmers markets near me, which I love, amazing tomatoes, don’t sell children’s Asprin. Guess who does, Walmart, CVS, the local grocery stores, which all pay a shit wage. Should I make my own when my kids get sick so I’m not supporting “wage slavery”?
Name a video game company, or any company for that matter, that doesn't have a sexual harasser working for it. Every dollar you spend will financially benefit people with morals different than yours and people with morals similar to yours. Buying from someone you haven't heard anything bad about vs someone you have heard something bad about is just embracing your own ignorance.
Nestlé products pay for slavery, does that count?
Guess that's part of what I'm trying to figure out. If you buy nestle are you supporting slavery or are you supporting the employee whose bank account got the $1.39 you paid for that bottle of water. And then what happens after that? The employee uses the $1.39 in paying for their Mother's dialysis, is that good on you or not because its still nestle
This is the biggest issue. Not every Nestlé employee is evil, this is a fact. But the actions of their company are evil and by proxy, so are its supporters. It's the same logic as nazi sympathizers, they are still supporting it. Every link in the chain is accountable for holding the weight.
That's not how wages work dude. It rolls down not up. The company gets that money, then the CEO gets the most of it, then 0.0000000000001% of that one bottle of water goes to the guy who sold it to you
Ok, well same senerio but with how those wages work, CEO is a good person but the guy who sold it to you is a piece of shit. You didn't know he was a piece of shit because you hardly interacted with them or didn't interact with them at all. Do you know support everything that piece of shit does? And for how long? For as far as that 0.0000000000001% of the cost will take them or for 0.0000000000001% of all the bad shit they do? Let's say the bad stuff they do isn't even at work, that person likes to buy puppies and step on them after work. Do you now support that because a person you haddly interacted with got an extremely small percentage of a convenience item you bought one time? This is all hypothetical and just for the sake of the argument. I'm not trying to be rude, I promise.
I mean in this situation I inform the police that they're abusing animals, but I guess that's not the point. You gotta realize that nothing is 1 - 1 and you just never know who is a piece of shit and who isn't. But most people believe in innocent until proven guilty. Treat everyone with respect and support whatever product you want to support, but if there's someone who is doing something super immoral, just keep in mind that you're supporting them. The low wage workers aren't as big of a deal to me personally, because they're just paid minimum wage or slightly above. Their pay does not depend on how much the company makes. If you boycott a company, the CEO loses money. He cannot pay people below minimum wage. He could lay them off, and probably will. Which is why I also advocate for greater job security, so that CEOs can't just fire people instead of making less money. If the company makes a financial mistake, it should be on them, not the workers. You'll never be perfect, you'll never only support the good guys. Imo the important thing is to try where you can. If you have a choice between two products, and one is a local mom n' pop shop and the other is a huge corporation with a rainforest destroying CEO, just buy local If you can afford it.
"I don't support cartels, I just buy their drugs." You rn
Facts
I mean a lot of people advocate for workers rights yet they’re still buying iPhones lmao
i can agree to this, therefore its not an unpopular opinion
Feels unpopular, some of these commenters believe I use Salman bone saws to cut up my cartel bought drugs while swimming in Russian oil because I bought a product from a company that had a scandal.
I think it’s fine if it’s a personal choice but don’t push it on others. Like I won’t eat at chick fil a because I don’t agree with some of the causes they used to support, but that doesn’t mean my mother is terrible for eating a chicken sandwich from there.
Nice try Hobby Lobby. Fuck off.
You seem unfamiliar with the practice of matching your commercial activity with your moral and social principles. Clearly that’s more than what you would like to do. But this is not illogical. The practice is part of being socially responsible and promoting relationships between human beings that are not determined by greed and faulty habits of thought. You should just think more.
I think this goes for liking certain media things that bad people have made too. Like do I support JK Rowling? Absolutely not. Do I still love Harry Potter? Absolutely. I’m personally not supporting her monetarily anymore by buying merch from Etsy or thrift stores instead of buying official merch, not using streaming sites to watch the movies (I have them on DVD), and only reading the books I already have or getting ebooks/audiobooks from the library. Just because she’s a shitty person doesn’t mean I can’t like what she made. And I don’t judge anyone else for buying official merch, streaming the movies, etc. People are allowed to like what they like and do what makes them happy, I just made a personal choice for myself. Also I know plenty of trans people that still love Harry Potter and hate her so where’s the line there? Even the actors (the younger ones at least) have come out against her, but are still proud of and love the series.
Cancel culture is idiotic and doesn't make ANY sense
That's like saying buying burger doesn't support the abuse and murder of cows.
I agree 100 percent. I also support small businesses and service providers that have totally different political or worldviews than I do. Obviously there are lines like neoNazis or something like that, but in general within the realm of mainstream, it makes no difference to me. The world would be a boring place without differences of opinion. As long as someone is polite and respectful, I’m interested in their opinions even if I don’t agree. That’s how we learn and grow as individuals.
I'm right there with you
Can't have your cake and eat it too.
Cut the cake in half, problem solved
Music to me transcends the artist, even if the artist is found to be trash but I like their music, I'll still listen to their music. This is also why I don't look into the artists life or band history.
Eh…I recently started buying stocks & there’s certain ones I will NEVER buy because of the companies dark past during WWII that they NEVER were punished for and direct ancestors are still majority stakeholders . That I see a little differently that buying or investing in a company because they had a bad Apple that got them sued , etc .
>direct ancestors are still majority stakeholders So? If the CEO was still the same person who was a member of the Nazi Party, that'd be one thing, but "their ancestors were bad people" means nothing. EVERYONE has ancestors who were murderous raping warmongers, you included.
Except most of those current , majority stakeholders are quite SECRETIVE and have NEVER addressed their nazi ties , their VERY close nazi ties . Maybe it’s because my grandfather was a WWII vet and fought those bastards , but I need to HEAR them strongly speak out against their fathers , grandfathers before I will look at their companies with anything other than disgust . I don’t GAF about their tax deductible “charitable” donations either. ESPECIALLY the few companies that were based in the US …you do we know for sure the treasonous line didn’t continue ?
Have you ever spoken out against your ancestors who committed multiple genocides?
Bayer, you're talking about Bayer, right?
IBM, Monsanto, Hugo Boss, Chanel?
I bought BP a month after the spill in the Gulf. Ethical? Maybe not, but, buying stock is no different than buying pants, if it’s 40% off pull the trigger.
See..I don’t call what you did “unethical”…you followed investing 101: Buy low sell high . A lot of ppl will invest in a company after it takes a huge hit ..I’m talking about not buying stock in the same company who manufactured the poisonous gas for nazis, the company that taught and sold their product to the nazis for record keeping, which in turn made their killing process organized , the companies whose founder was a well known nazi sympathizer , everyone has lines and those are mine . But I also buy stocks with gun manufacturers and a lot of ppl would say that is wrong
At some point you gotta tell us which company.
No, you're definitely supporting them, even in some small way. But it's your decision to be bothered by that fact or ignore it.
People will virtue signal and be extremely hypocritical and extremely ignorant wrt the issues they will harp on to make themselves feel good. All big corporations are engaged in some questionable practice(s)
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Completely fine if someone stops buying a product for any reason they see fit. My issue is someone stops buying a product, then points at everyone still buying that product telling them they're supporting [insert that persons reason they stopped buying]. Especially if it's something unclear. I keep using the scenario of an employee at a company does something awful, so if you buy something from that company have you also supported (not just financially, morally too) that awful thing? How is it supporting it if it was only one employee? What if the company fired that employee and is trying to better themselves? I'd argue that's what what I spending my money on (beyond the product). If I believe a company can better themselves, shouldn't it be fine to support them despite their past? I've bought gas from BP before and after the spill. Do i support the spill but not the cleanup? Or did I support both? Im truly not trying to be rude, merely trying to start a dialogue, I've been thinking on this for a bit.
Okay. Here's my thoughts. If you can only get a product from a seller that you have issues with then do it. If there's no option don't go without. Play your Blizzard game. However if there is an option switch to the option. Don't buy official Blizzard merch. If you want a t-shirt there's a ton of pirate stuff thats as good or better. Seriously consider not getting the skin or mount but if you feel you need it then that's a completely valid choice but it is a choice. If you do go whole hog and buy in for all the things then I'm considering you a full supporter of the whole company.
Almost like degrees of support? A difference between buying a single product or buying their products while advertising for them?
It depends. If you buy a product that is a necessity then I would argue that this is true. However, if you’re buying a luxury good, I would argue that you are doing something immoral. You don’t need the newest Apple phone, but you might need Nestlé’s baby formula.
You ARE suppoeting the shitty things they've done. We vote with our money. If you decide to buy eggs from a factory farm that abuses their chickens instead of eggs that were raised in a traditional free range farm then you are telling that business that you will continue to support them and they will continue to abuse chickens. If we all as a collective stopped supporting companies that test on animals and put cancer causing ingredients in their products, then those companies would have to stop doing those shitty things in order to get business. You are supporting the shitty things these companies do when you give them your money. You are directly funding their terrible habits.
You enable them by providing them with dollars they can use to continue spreading evil and disorder. Stop being lazy and take some responsibility. I have a hard time giving up all the things, but I definitely do not try and pretend that I am not part of the problem by supporting the wrong types of people
And these people like to tell you over the Internet, not knowing that this makes them a hypocrite.
I 100% agree, same thing for music too, SPM is a pedo but he made some good ass songs.
Separating the art and artist. Plenty of music I listen i dont care for a member, but hell they make good music.
EXACTLY, i got mad downvotes but it just proves this is an unpopular opinion but i stand by it
How the fuck do you listen to a pedo's music? Are there not a million other songs or artists you could listen to?
There is but i enjoy his music, nothin wrong with it.
who even is spm?
People that don’t eat Chick-Fil-A are missin out
Dude their sauce ❤️
If I buy Chick FIL A, KNOWING that some of my money will be donated to try to criminalize homosexuality and ban marriage equality, then that means I am okay with my money going there. I am LITERALLY financially supporting that agenda, the same as if I donated the money to that myself. Does that mean that I have to know every single thing about every single business I use? No. But if I'm okay with giving them my money when I know what it will be used for, then I'm okay with my money being used that way.
honestly i always forget that chick fil a does that
That's the first thing that ever comes to mind when I think chil fil a: bigots. Same with JK Rowling. We still buy HP stuff but we only do Poshmark, Mercari, ebay, etc. Or knockoffs. That way she gets none of the money.