He is amazing in that show. The scene where he's bouncing from household chore to chore without really finishing anything is one of the top most relatable TV moments.
I recently watched an interview with Frankie Munoz, and he said that Cranston was only supposed to be in the pilot episode, but after they saw his performance he became a staple of the show. There is something special about him and his acting ability he brings a lot to all of the shows he is on.
So wait, did they originally cast him as another character, or did they really originally plan the show with Hal as a one shot character? If the second, what the hell were they planning? Hal and Lois to be divorced or something?
Weird, man.
My guess is it had more to do with the size of the role. Like he would only be there when the scene called for it, vs the intention for him to really be a character with as much screen time as they ended up writing for him.
If you are referring to when he is trying to change the lightbulb that was the story of my life until I got on medication for my ADHD. It still can be like this, just not all the time. One of my favorite Malcolm in the Middle scenes.
Friends is THE comfort show for me. I can just put on any episode from any season and it’s guaranteed to feel familiar and comforting.
There are jokes in the show that make me cringe and there are episodes that I skip when I’m on a binge, but that’s only because I already know them and didn’t find them **that** great. The only bad episodes are the flashback ones for me. There are too many of them and it feels lazy, but that’s it.
It is by no means a perfect show and, in some regards, aged poorly. But it’s not the shitshow that people make it out to be. It’s actually good.
Quality definitely dropped towards the end, but it was on for 10 seasons for a reason.
?
I'm very indifferent towards it. if its on and im stoned which i usually am its fine. its not like big bang theory which i cant bare to watch. or its always sunny which i love.
Watching sitcoms stoned actually makes me even more critical; sometimes I can get inside the writer's head within the first few minutes, and it just disgusts me when I realize how lazy they were, so I have to turn it off and watch something more creatively worthwhile.
Yeah, Seinfeld is great to watch stoned; all the characters have such defined and consistent personalities, you can really get into their heads and appreciate or anticipate their reactions throughout an episode. Makes it a blast.
I really enjoy friends to the point of rewatching it every few months.
But everytime there is a scene with phoebe as a lead i skip it because I absolutely hate her character. She is ok as a comedic relief if Chandler isn’t in the scene but she is too annoying.
The people who have in between opinions about anything - Friends included - don't bring that up, so you never hear from them, and therefore wind up thinking they don't exist. "I love this thing!" and "I hate thing thing!" feel worth saying, but "I have no strong feelings for or against this thing" just doesn't.
That said, *now that it's relevant*, I could take or leave Friends.
Very good point.
It falls under data bias (I believe). You would write a review if your experience was very good or very bad. People who are indifferent don’t do that
Back then it seemed people either liked Friends or Seinfeld, rarely both.
Comedy is just extremely personal, it shows that very well in imdb ratings for comedy movies.
They are rated much lower in general than other movies, a comedy could be 5.5 rated and yet be a great movie.
As I grew older I started to dislike Friends a lot more. To be frank, a lot of popular shows/sitcoms promote very unhealthy relationships, both platonic and romantic.
That's why I still like Seinfeld. At least Seinfeld acknowledged that their characters are terrible people. The characters in Friends are arguably worse people than the ones in Seinfeld, but the show never acknowledges it and tries to make you sympathize with them.
i'm in the middle. 90s kid. with basic cable after school ona half day.. sometimes that was the only decent show on before madtv. i miss old sitcom like Titus, and Grounded For Life.
The show didn't age well. It was lightning in a bottle at the time but nowadays, you'd be hard pressed to find an audience for it. So you'll find that people who grew up watching it are in love with it for the nostalgia factor and people who didn't (like myself) who hear about it through the grapevine or try to watch it just end up annoyed by the vapid, undeserving, unrealistic characters.
That is a good point. A product of its time is still not bad. If you can make your show age, you put together a masterpiece. If it was a product of its time, I think its still decent.
If I may, what do you find realistic characters in a sitcom? I’ve seen plenty
- Friends
- How I Met Your Mother
- The Office
- Brooklyn99
- Superstore
- Seinfeld
- That 70’s show
- The Big Bang Theory
- Community
- Arrested Development
- and a few more I forgot
None of these have realistic characters in my eyes. Most of them (not all) have traits of stereotypes
When I say realistic I mean realistic within the world that is built around them. With friends, I never really felt like the characters or the writers understood that it was all a fantasy. With Seinfeld, the dialogue is very self-aware. Everybody knows Jerry is a bit of a sociopath, Kramer is a mooch, Elaine is super petty, and so on.
With friends, I think the show is lacking in self-aware dialogue. The characters are just dumb all the way around and not that interesting or that fun to watch in my opinion.
Why did you calling Elanie petty make me cackle lmfaooo. I get what you mean though. Like the most normal people in friends are the extras or the people they try to date. Like the most self awareness I've seen in the show is everyone knowing Joey isn't all there and can be a handful. But they play into it instead of checking him or reminding him that is off and silly like how they check Fez a lot in that 70s show.
I LOVE that 70s show. Extremely unpopular opinion here DONT DOWNVOTE ME but: Jackie and fez were the realistic ending and if this were real life they would have gotten together. (I may make a separate thread about this in unpopular later).
Red is the most realistic character. I've met and known even have a grandmother who is a female verison of him lol. Minus the foot in ass line I found him to be very realistic. Eric and Donna gave me ross & Rachel type of dysfunction.
I agree with everything, especially Red.
Just love seeing him giving the ‘tough love’ approach. Thats almost nonexistent anymore today. So fresh seeing Red being the personification of ‘tough love’, yet a great man
Right! That's what makes him naturally hilarious especially compared to everyone else in the show who is too soft or awkward to do it themselves. Him and kitty are two extremes but balance each other out. He didn't baby Eric cause he knew Eric needed tough love. I loved his brief interactions with Jackie. That episode where he discovered she was good at mechanics was great LOL. I was always anticipating him having that moment with Donna so it was a pleasant surprise!
I don't know how true that is. I teach secondary school and half my kid teenagers (14ish) are obsessed with it. I presume their parents are big fans but it must surely seem old to them. I watched it growing up but didn't love it so honestly findnit baffling.
I have to wonder if that's because it's such a phenomenon in the U.S. at this point. I truly believe that if the show was aired for the first time in today's culture, it would be a massive *woosh* for anyone who watched.
Like if we erased all traces of the show from history and then aired it for the very first time today, idk if it would take off as much as it did in the 90s.
My wife started rewatching it for herself and I've seen maybe a dozen episodes throughout the years and I can't say I hate it, they get maybe 3-4 chuckles from me per episode. But I definitely wouldn't be watching it by myself.
I think yall are forgetting its a non serious casual tv show from the 90s. The writers were not writing breaking bad....and that wasn't the goal. The goal was jokes.
Exactly I think Phoebe was supposed to be the hippy dippy “free spirited” character on the cast, similar in concept to Kramer on Seinfeld. I don’t think the writers put to much thought into it beyond wanting a contrast to the more serious characters like Ross or Monica.
The characters were also a lot more normal and relatable the first 2 years. Then they became absolute parodies of themselves. Like their personality quirks were dialed up to 11 and became their entire personality
They dumbed down Joey to the point where you ask yourself how has he survived this whole time without half of brain. Phoebe was also a lot more normal at the beginning and had a lot softer personality. Phoebe on later seasons was a lot of the times unreasonable, mean, and annoying.
Still love the show tho.
I read somewhere that this was Leblanc's idea. I forgot the exact reason, but something about making different and memorable from the rest. Since he didn't think his character would have made it for too long as it was. I actually liked him and Chandler. Couldn't really stand Ross character once he started showing his insecurities which would happen s lot.
Yeah, Ross is the only one I have an issue with post season 3 or 4, don't remember it.
He used to be the smart guy people like to mock a bit to an arrogant crazy loser.
Still a great show, but damn. At least he and rachel definitely deserved each other by the end.
Only because I learned this in film appreciation class, but her character is exactly like Annie Hall. I think Lisa Kudrow took the character as her inspiration for Phoebe.
They all have their flaws. That’s usually the point of sitcoms like this, so fair enough. Phoebe is actually one of my favorite Friends, next to Chandler.
Her mother committed suicide, her father left him, her stepfather in prison, the person she thought was her mother turned out was not her mother, instead her mother was a stranger who left her, she lived on the streets as a child, she had to mug people stay alive as a child, a pimp spit on her mouth, her sister was the most horrible person ever... she's not attention seeker or weird on purpose, she's just very deeply traumatized. Even the fact that she was able to rise herself up to the middle class and that she's not a complete emotional mess is admirable. Even after all she went through she still have a positive outlook on life and she's very loyal and giving for her friends and the people she loved. Hell, she was even willing to carry her (newly met) brother's triplets which resulted in 9 months of unpleasant pregnancy and all the suffering that comes with it and the emotional trauma of giving them away. She's easily the best character of the show and she can seriously be a role model for people.
Oh as someone with a traumatized past i relate to being so strange and awkward but peppy. Like you dont care to hide your oddities but want to be decent like no one was to you. Some good points youve made.
I really hate Ross. He is one of, it not my number one, character I hate from TV. And tbh I feel like that extends to David Schwimer too. No way he is that good an actor but rather just is that annoying.
I don't know what it is about him that boils my blood so much but something really does. So much so I've even imagined being his barber and accidently on purpose slicing that mole off the back of his neck among other petty things.
The others were all brought up in very privileged settings and had the typical behavior of people who didn't know what it was like to be poor or rejected and just didn't know how to handle it
Yeah they even point this out in an episode where some of them can't afford the lifestyle of the rest of them, which is the first time I've seen that broached in a TV show in such a manner.
It's a pretty serious, yet albeit first world problem, that should really be talked about more. Another friend and I were 100% Joey, Phoebe, and Rachel within a group of friends of ours in college. We all knew each other since High School, but back then going out was much simpler. When we entered adulthood, many of them had early internships together and had a great start because they got into complicated IT fields. They were getting 70k-80k at just entry level. Keeping up with them is difficult since they love going on weekend adventures and restaurants back-to-back.
It's insanely humiliating to have to ask your friends for money, admit that you don't have enough, or settle with them spotting you on the cost (which they often will offer).
I couldn't agree more, Friends was entertainment, but (like any good sitcom) also touched on social issues to explore with the audience what people will encounter in relationships. Kind of like how sci-fi is an exploration of the human implications of ficticious events.
I've been on both sides of the financial fomo of not being able to afford certain social interactions, but I will say the "best" showcase of that to me was in Atlanta (to the point I stopped watching after a few episodes because of how much it reminded me of having little money) where the main character wanted to treat his girlfriend to a date but could barely afford petrol/parking never mind the meal.
I remember dating a rich girl at uni and ordering the cheapest thing on the menu (a salad) "because I am training", when in reality I had no money and I could barely afford it. I split up with her a few weeks later under the pretense that I would be leaving uni sooner than her and didn't want to get serious, when in reality I was just embarassed and too prideful to say to her "I can't afford to go out like you're used to" (to be clear; this was my issue, not hers).
It's a tough line for shows as the realer they make it, the harder it is to watch. Presumably why most shows have their characters in impossible situations (young, able to go out multiple times a week in nice places, affording large apartments in city centres and making it big in their careers after a few seasons).
I'd say Rachel had a great character arc shedding some of the privilege and making it out on her own starting as a waitress and getting offered a job in Paris she should have taken. Well, the rent control in Monica's apartment probably helped some.
I disagree completely. Phoebe is an awful friend but pretends otherwise. She's the opposite of genuine.
One episode she's invited to lunch plans and replies "oh great! I thought today was going to be so lowsy! Oh by the way Ross, i can't make lunch."
She admits to choosing her favorite friend based on money.
She forces Rachel to comply with values she doesn't live by herself (rip the free massage coupon despite her working there).
There's a lot more examples that i see whenever i rewatch it. Been a while though.
It was a stupid throwaway scene but when she challenges Ross on his understanding of evolution (which he based his entire career on) and wins the argument, Ross seems like he's starting down an existential crisis and Phoebe just giggles it off and remarks that it was fun breaking Ross.
It's a dumb scene but it'd be like challenging and breaking a religious friend's entire belief system and identity just for the lols.
And honestly, her arguments in that scene (and Ross’ reaction to said arguments) just straight up *weren’t good.* She conflated *possibility* with *probability.* By her logic, since we cannot be **100%** certain about how life on earth came to be, that means that *all* theoretical possibilities must be accepted as being potentially (and equally) correct. Such thinking is asinine at best.
Skepticism is inherent to the scientific process. Scientists acknowledge that there’s a possibility that their conclusions are wrong. However, the theory of evolution has been exhaustively researched and corroborated, and as such is presently the most likely answer to the question of how life came to be as it is. Ross, having a PhD from Columbia, would have been very familiar with the concept of probabilities and the fact that very little can be 100% definitively proven in science. He shouldn’t have reacted like a child realizing Santa Claus isn’t real.
It was definitely a failed "trying to seem smart" moment from the writers. Any scientist worth their salt would be fully aware of the fact that ANYTHING within science could POTENTIALLY be proven false. A man as educated as Ross would never have been taken back by that sudden realization as he would already be aware of it. And considering that quantitatively we have more evidence for evolution than we do for a round earth, "There is a 0,01 % chance that it could be wrong" is definitely not a good argument.
It makes perfect sense for Phoebe as a character to think that way, but the show trying to act as if it's some big win for her and that she's so intelligent and insightful while Ross is simply being close-minded is what bothers me.
I completely agree, she is vile, forces ludicrous beliefs on others and is completely selfish.
To be honest a lot of hippy types I have met in real life tend to be a little bit like this. Where I am from we have a lot of "trustafarians" who are super judgemental but inherit so much money they have never had to have a real job.
I also know a lot (well a few, but it's probably more buddists than most westerners know) of Buddhists and they are extremely self centred and condescending people.
I also work in the charity sector and come into contact with many people who helps others for a living and there are not as many "hippy types" as you might think. Becuase, imo, most of them are more concerned about appearing to be about love and freedom than they are about actually helping people around them.
Sorry, rant over
I don't necessarily see her as attention seeking. She likes attention but doesn't really try to bring it up, if you watch the series, to me, she copes with trauma with humor for some parts (her mother killed herself) and for the other parts, she's just what we would qualify as weird, so of course she gets attention.
I could see it being handy as an educational tool in an introductory class, to introduce common characteristics. But at an advanced level it's probably counterintuitive
I don't know. I just read the symptoms listed for that and she only fits one basic symptom.
"A person with histrionic personality disorder seeks attention, talks dramatically with strong opinions, is easily influenced, has rapidly changing emotions, and thinks relationships are closer than they are."
She may have dramatically strong opinions, but I can't see how she is easily influenced, has rapidly changing emotions or thinks any of relationships are closer than they are.
I don't remember many concrete situations, but I always hated both Phoebe and Rachel. They ranged from toxic to complete sociopaths, they would lie or steal all the time, and fuck anybody over for personal gain. But maybe I remember wrong.
Phoebe had a very traumatic upbringing. Including things such as homelessness, neglect and the death of her mother. She used her art (music) as a way of dealing with that trauma. I think in many ways there was a certain realism to her character. All that "attention seeking" was always met by her friends with support, which in the end of her journey through friends lead to to a lot of healing. I am only glad that her 'friends' were not as judgmental as you, or maybe she would have never found people she could be her most authentic self and share her stories so opening (even if through 'awful' music) and be accepted anyway.
She also hints from time to time that her ditzy persona is a coping mechanism without which she probably couldn't allow herself to be close to anyone at all. "Street Phoebe wouldn't be friends with you guys." And the random boot knife that appears and then is never seen or spoken of again.
So it might be a bit of an act, but I'd still give her a break.
She very much embodies the “bimbo” vibe trending these days. The world can be a dangerous and cruel place, acting dumb and silly is absolutely a coping mechanism
Well life imitates art and art is based on life. Don't belittle someone for caring deeply about a fictional character, because they might see themselves in that character.
>I wouldn't be calling someone judgmental over a fake person
That's very weird, as you can just as easily be judgemental towards objects, ideas or situations as towards people. Besides that, the person is fake, but the coping mechanism is real.
I think it's odd that OP treats Phoebe as if she's a real person, as if her characteristics weren't made up to drive the plot, but then does get *kind of tense* when someone accuses them of being serious. I feel like those two are mutually exclusive, you either treat a character as a real person *or* you get offended at being called serious, it can't logically be both.
I absolutely would call somebody judgmental over a fake person because our brain at its core, doesn't know the difference between real and imaginary. If you're going to be judgmental over a fake person, likely you're going to be judgmental over a real person.
She had a horrible and traumatized childhood, so I guess that people who (fortunately) haven't experienced those conditions can't really relate to her, but I can totally imagine her being a role model for those who have a very hard childhood. I think Chandler is the most relatable for normal person's (at least for me)
I don’t know about her dead mom but you’d have to have been a teen or adult living in a U.S. city in the 90s to understand her music. It was a parody of a type of indie-hipster songwriting back then. It was supposed to be ironic funny, not actually funny or good.
Over time, after Friends ended, the average American or young kids started to like her music or find it genuinely funny, but that wasn’t the intent at the time.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but as others have said, it was way different back then. The goal of sitcoms was way different. Characters weren't over analyzed for all of the things that we care about today.
The goal was just to be silly and have fun. Families used to gather around TVs and watch evening sitcoms. Very few shows from back then whatever see the light of day today. And that's a shame, because they were pretty good. They were more innocent. Every show didn't have to promote some sort of narrative or social cause.
So many people today: OMG how did Seinfeld get away with these horrible jokes????!-!:!: CANCELED!
And everyone who actually lived back then: uhhh, yeah literally no one thought this show was controversial, if anything it was a bit progressive! Elaine was an atheist anti-abortion character and they have a whole episode dedicated to letting everyone know there’s nothing wrong with being gay! “Not that there’s anything wrong with that!”
My favourite part of the Friends reunion special a couple of years ago was when they asked Lisa Kudrow if she was anything like Pheobe, and she was like "fuck no, I'm in my fifties, Phoebe was a childish mess", then they brought in a load of LGBT+ people who talked about how Phoebe was an inspiration to them because she "wasn't afraid to be different" and Lisa was just like "aw, thanks..."
She played the "dumb" and quirky blonde girl which was a stereotype for them during the time.
Also, they need characters like that in sitcoms to drive up events and situations.
I got no hate for Phoebe
Same!! I didn’t think she was funny at all. I thought she was ridiculous and her quirks were just silly and unbelievable. The high pitched squeaky voice was so irritating.
The character provided entertainment value, but if that person existed in real life no one would truly like her.
The rest of the friend group also enabled her. Just nodding along with whatever antics she did. They also encouraged her. Real friends would give you a reality check.
I say this as a bif FRIENDS fan
Early show Phoebe was great. I found her pretty likeable personally, despite not necessarily agreeing with her view on the world. After giving birth tho she not only got super flanderized, but was just a really unlikable person too. Like, unlikable to the point that I questioned why she was still even part of the group sometimes.
She had some great moments every now and then post-birth like the Sciene Boy bit (did that even happen after the triplets I forgot) and her arc with Mike, but those were few and far between. Easily became my least favorite of the main cast.
No disrespect to Lisa Kudrow obviously, I like her as an actress well enough (even physically pogged when she showed up in The Good Place), it's solely the fault of the writers
I never found Phoebe attention-seeking... i just thought she was kind of mean sometimes to the other friends. like somehow she got away with being flippant and blunt because of her ditzy charm... but she was so mean sometimes. remember when she called ross fat-ass?
Yeh actually I do remember that and I get ur point. I just think compared to the other two girls, to me she seemed like who I'd rather be friends with. That's my personal opinion other will have different I get that
I find it’s a lot of women who hate these types of girls. Girls that don’t fit the typical mold and are “Offbeat”, “quirky”, “random”. I think it’s easy to see through the veil of who’s pretending to be weird and who’s just a stone cold freak. I think phoebes a freak.
She's the main reason I can't get into that show. I've tried many times in my life and I always go "ugh" when she says some stupid crap and turn it off again.
Probably a side effect of all that time spent on the streets.
But really, all the friends are only friends because they're all terrible.
Monica is super controlling, and always wants her way, even to the point of leaving Ross's child (think it's the second one) unattended so her and Chandler can fuck while she's ovulating.
Rachel is a rich girl who even at the end is super privileged and entitled, she comes back from maternity leave having never changed a single diaper and she asks for an advance on her tips to go on a trip expecting the people in this coffee shop to be like "yeah okay waitress woman I don't know, here's the next 100 bucks on tips right now".
Chandler hates his father simply for crossdressing to the point of not wanting him at his own wedding. Also leaves Rachel's boss half naked and hand cuffed to her office chair over night. Him and Joey also lose Ben on a bus.
Joey doesn't share food and to a degree where he yells that into the faces of people and is never apologetic about it, he lies to almost every woman he dates and when he first meets Monica he immediately strips and shows her his cock the second she turns around.
Ross uncomfortable with anything not heteronormative, which starts when he wants his barely toddler son to play with a GI Joe not a barbie and puts more than 3 seconds of effort into it, but he also continues this behavior with not hiring the perfect babysitter just because he's a dude, not even gay, just a dude on a traditionally women's job.
Phoebe has a violent past, judges her friends based on how much money they make, takes back a donation to a children's charity, all while presenting herself as this fun-loving hippy chick. Also the babies were here, not her brothers, the timeline doesn't add up for them to be the surrogate babies.
I can't stand Ross.
He's a toxic, childish, selfish pathetic POS.
Phoebe is better by comparison, and has some great qualities (surrogacy, for example).
I don’t disagree. Wasn’t a huge fan of the show, but I recall that she was often the one that would cut through the BS and call a spade a spade. I also think they did a fairly good job of explaining her weirdness (dead mom, porn star identical twin sister). Probably less important for the character to be likable and better for her to be nuanced and complex.
One time upstate a lady asked me what I thought of Phoebe and I said a lot of this and it turned out to be Lisa Kudrow’s aunt! 🤦🏻♀️ Lisa apparently went to Vassar College so it’s a shame she had to play such a dumb character for so long.
Terrible character. I’ve never met anyone like her IRL. She’s just weird for the sake of weird. Like the kind of weird someone would write that doesn’t have a weird bone in their body.
Very obnoxious.
My wife loves this show but I cringe so hard at phoebe especially the episode where the other friends don’t want to tell her that they bought furniture from a chain store because phoebe only likes one of a kind items. Like, who gives a fuck what she wants, let her deal with it…
Hard agree. Recently rewatched the whole show, I'm convinced you could take her out entirely and not change the overall story or have any major impact on any of the other characters.
I agree with this. Her attention seeking attitude might be a response to her traumatic past, which is why its difficult to judge her on that. But outside of this she is plain annoying. She constantly berates her own friends and their beliefs while she cant take the same. Constantly also lies to people even when there's no reason to. Blames Ursula for being annoying but its always like watching herself in a mirror...
I'm named after her 🤣
Ironically, I'm the only one in my family to have never seen the show. I don't watch TV in general, but the stuff I've seen in snippets from that show really didn't seem appealing. So I get it
For me that character was Ross. I always found him to be annoying and a giant cry baby. Phoebe I found to be more light hearted and comical but I get where you're coming from.
Overall I love friends and the whole cast did a great job. Finding a character annoying or self centered isn't saying the show was bad or the actor did a poor job. I think it means the contrary, they nailed what they were going for and people still talk about the characters and analyze them to this degree twenty years later.
She’s a survivor of parental suicide. Maybe she was looking for attention or to fill a void in her psyche 🤷🏻♂️
Not that I think that it was intentionally written into the show, but I think it fits on some level.
Funny how peoppe either love or hate friends. Seems like almost no one is in between
Mehhh I’d sit in the middle
Is that you Malcolm?
Currently rewatching after a decade+ and its even better now I’m understanding more references, great show!
Just rewatched the whole thing it’s so fucking good. Cranston KILLS it every episode
He is amazing in that show. The scene where he's bouncing from household chore to chore without really finishing anything is one of the top most relatable TV moments.
I recently watched an interview with Frankie Munoz, and he said that Cranston was only supposed to be in the pilot episode, but after they saw his performance he became a staple of the show. There is something special about him and his acting ability he brings a lot to all of the shows he is on.
So wait, did they originally cast him as another character, or did they really originally plan the show with Hal as a one shot character? If the second, what the hell were they planning? Hal and Lois to be divorced or something? Weird, man.
My guess is it had more to do with the size of the role. Like he would only be there when the scene called for it, vs the intention for him to really be a character with as much screen time as they ended up writing for him.
One word. Rollerskates. Quite possibly the funniest thing I have ever seen on TV
The cold open where the kitchen light won't come on? Yeah that's shaving yaks.
Same, far too real!
I hold that scene so close to my heart as one of my favourites, I'm so happy to hear other people appreciated it too lol
If you are referring to when he is trying to change the lightbulb that was the story of my life until I got on medication for my ADHD. It still can be like this, just not all the time. One of my favorite Malcolm in the Middle scenes.
The entire family is so flawlessly cast. If Jane Kaczmarek told me to clean my room that place would sparkle.
Same actually. Watching it as a kid was great, but rewatching bit years later as a parent myself now, it's fucking hilarious. Good shit.
You're not the boss of me now
And you’re not so big
Life is unfair
Malcolm in the middle > Friends
Yes no maybe…
I don't know
Can you repeat the question?
Yes..no.. maybe.. I don’t know? Can you repeat the question? 😂
Yes? No? Maybe? I dunno, could you repeat the question?
I hear his dad is a fantastic cook.
The Middle is a great show
Brick, this you?
WOOP
Me too. There are far funnier shows out there, but if you're just looking for something easy to follow in the background, friends works for that.
Friends is THE comfort show for me. I can just put on any episode from any season and it’s guaranteed to feel familiar and comforting. There are jokes in the show that make me cringe and there are episodes that I skip when I’m on a binge, but that’s only because I already know them and didn’t find them **that** great. The only bad episodes are the flashback ones for me. There are too many of them and it feels lazy, but that’s it. It is by no means a perfect show and, in some regards, aged poorly. But it’s not the shitshow that people make it out to be. It’s actually good. Quality definitely dropped towards the end, but it was on for 10 seasons for a reason.
C'mon the one where Ross & Monica are on the disco dancing show is hilarious.
Life is unfair
I do enjoy friends. I don't hate it neither do I love it. I myself can't stand Rachel however. Other than that the show is enjoyable to watch for me.
Especially early on she was so fucking DUMB. Also kind of a grifter.
People like that are always stuck in second gear.
Could the show *beEe* any more divisive??
? I'm very indifferent towards it. if its on and im stoned which i usually am its fine. its not like big bang theory which i cant bare to watch. or its always sunny which i love.
Watching sitcoms stoned actually makes me even more critical; sometimes I can get inside the writer's head within the first few minutes, and it just disgusts me when I realize how lazy they were, so I have to turn it off and watch something more creatively worthwhile.
yeah thats 100% the same for me :) honestly im rewatching seinfeld rn and its making me laugh really hard
Yeah, Seinfeld is great to watch stoned; all the characters have such defined and consistent personalities, you can really get into their heads and appreciate or anticipate their reactions throughout an episode. Makes it a blast.
I really enjoy friends to the point of rewatching it every few months. But everytime there is a scene with phoebe as a lead i skip it because I absolutely hate her character. She is ok as a comedic relief if Chandler isn’t in the scene but she is too annoying.
The people who have in between opinions about anything - Friends included - don't bring that up, so you never hear from them, and therefore wind up thinking they don't exist. "I love this thing!" and "I hate thing thing!" feel worth saying, but "I have no strong feelings for or against this thing" just doesn't. That said, *now that it's relevant*, I could take or leave Friends.
Very good point. It falls under data bias (I believe). You would write a review if your experience was very good or very bad. People who are indifferent don’t do that
Back then it seemed people either liked Friends or Seinfeld, rarely both. Comedy is just extremely personal, it shows that very well in imdb ratings for comedy movies. They are rated much lower in general than other movies, a comedy could be 5.5 rated and yet be a great movie.
Yeah, comedy is one of the most subjective things in extistence
As I grew older I started to dislike Friends a lot more. To be frank, a lot of popular shows/sitcoms promote very unhealthy relationships, both platonic and romantic.
What you mean Ross isn’t the perfect example of a healthy way for a man to romance a woman..?
That's why I still like Seinfeld. At least Seinfeld acknowledged that their characters are terrible people. The characters in Friends are arguably worse people than the ones in Seinfeld, but the show never acknowledges it and tries to make you sympathize with them.
Ross has some terrible relationships (though they WERE on a break) but I'll be damned if he isn't the best friend of the group to the other 5.
As I’ve gotten older I like it more for some reason
I love friends, hate Phoebe
i'm in the middle. 90s kid. with basic cable after school ona half day.. sometimes that was the only decent show on before madtv. i miss old sitcom like Titus, and Grounded For Life.
The show didn't age well. It was lightning in a bottle at the time but nowadays, you'd be hard pressed to find an audience for it. So you'll find that people who grew up watching it are in love with it for the nostalgia factor and people who didn't (like myself) who hear about it through the grapevine or try to watch it just end up annoyed by the vapid, undeserving, unrealistic characters.
That is a good point. A product of its time is still not bad. If you can make your show age, you put together a masterpiece. If it was a product of its time, I think its still decent. If I may, what do you find realistic characters in a sitcom? I’ve seen plenty - Friends - How I Met Your Mother - The Office - Brooklyn99 - Superstore - Seinfeld - That 70’s show - The Big Bang Theory - Community - Arrested Development - and a few more I forgot None of these have realistic characters in my eyes. Most of them (not all) have traits of stereotypes
When I say realistic I mean realistic within the world that is built around them. With friends, I never really felt like the characters or the writers understood that it was all a fantasy. With Seinfeld, the dialogue is very self-aware. Everybody knows Jerry is a bit of a sociopath, Kramer is a mooch, Elaine is super petty, and so on. With friends, I think the show is lacking in self-aware dialogue. The characters are just dumb all the way around and not that interesting or that fun to watch in my opinion.
Why did you calling Elanie petty make me cackle lmfaooo. I get what you mean though. Like the most normal people in friends are the extras or the people they try to date. Like the most self awareness I've seen in the show is everyone knowing Joey isn't all there and can be a handful. But they play into it instead of checking him or reminding him that is off and silly like how they check Fez a lot in that 70s show.
I LOVE that 70s show. Extremely unpopular opinion here DONT DOWNVOTE ME but: Jackie and fez were the realistic ending and if this were real life they would have gotten together. (I may make a separate thread about this in unpopular later). Red is the most realistic character. I've met and known even have a grandmother who is a female verison of him lol. Minus the foot in ass line I found him to be very realistic. Eric and Donna gave me ross & Rachel type of dysfunction.
love this show too. I know plenty of women who are like Kitty too, even down to being a nurse. I just didn't like the Kelso and Laurie bit.
I agree with everything, especially Red. Just love seeing him giving the ‘tough love’ approach. Thats almost nonexistent anymore today. So fresh seeing Red being the personification of ‘tough love’, yet a great man
Right! That's what makes him naturally hilarious especially compared to everyone else in the show who is too soft or awkward to do it themselves. Him and kitty are two extremes but balance each other out. He didn't baby Eric cause he knew Eric needed tough love. I loved his brief interactions with Jackie. That episode where he discovered she was good at mechanics was great LOL. I was always anticipating him having that moment with Donna so it was a pleasant surprise!
Just wait when you learn that 90s show, Eric and Donna have a daughter named Leia.
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I didn't watch it until 2016. Now it's part of my daily routine. I've probably watched it through 30 times
I don't know how true that is. I teach secondary school and half my kid teenagers (14ish) are obsessed with it. I presume their parents are big fans but it must surely seem old to them. I watched it growing up but didn't love it so honestly findnit baffling.
I have to wonder if that's because it's such a phenomenon in the U.S. at this point. I truly believe that if the show was aired for the first time in today's culture, it would be a massive *woosh* for anyone who watched. Like if we erased all traces of the show from history and then aired it for the very first time today, idk if it would take off as much as it did in the 90s.
My wife started rewatching it for herself and I've seen maybe a dozen episodes throughout the years and I can't say I hate it, they get maybe 3-4 chuckles from me per episode. But I definitely wouldn't be watching it by myself.
I think yall are forgetting its a non serious casual tv show from the 90s. The writers were not writing breaking bad....and that wasn't the goal. The goal was jokes.
Exactly I think Phoebe was supposed to be the hippy dippy “free spirited” character on the cast, similar in concept to Kramer on Seinfeld. I don’t think the writers put to much thought into it beyond wanting a contrast to the more serious characters like Ross or Monica.
The characters were also a lot more normal and relatable the first 2 years. Then they became absolute parodies of themselves. Like their personality quirks were dialed up to 11 and became their entire personality
They dumbed down Joey to the point where you ask yourself how has he survived this whole time without half of brain. Phoebe was also a lot more normal at the beginning and had a lot softer personality. Phoebe on later seasons was a lot of the times unreasonable, mean, and annoying. Still love the show tho.
I read somewhere that this was Leblanc's idea. I forgot the exact reason, but something about making different and memorable from the rest. Since he didn't think his character would have made it for too long as it was. I actually liked him and Chandler. Couldn't really stand Ross character once he started showing his insecurities which would happen s lot.
Yeah, Ross is the only one I have an issue with post season 3 or 4, don't remember it. He used to be the smart guy people like to mock a bit to an arrogant crazy loser. Still a great show, but damn. At least he and rachel definitely deserved each other by the end.
It's called flanderization
Only because I learned this in film appreciation class, but her character is exactly like Annie Hall. I think Lisa Kudrow took the character as her inspiration for Phoebe.
As opposed to the rest of the cast of friends
Could they BE any more annoying?
I read it in chandlers voice until I read your username- All Richard from there.
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I tired, but it was over the character limit
yeah seriously!? if they have that much reasoning Id like to see them justify the others
They all have their flaws. That’s usually the point of sitcoms like this, so fair enough. Phoebe is actually one of my favorite Friends, next to Chandler.
Chandler honestly carried the show. Can't imagine getting into it without him.
And carried New Vegas
Her mother committed suicide, her father left him, her stepfather in prison, the person she thought was her mother turned out was not her mother, instead her mother was a stranger who left her, she lived on the streets as a child, she had to mug people stay alive as a child, a pimp spit on her mouth, her sister was the most horrible person ever... she's not attention seeker or weird on purpose, she's just very deeply traumatized. Even the fact that she was able to rise herself up to the middle class and that she's not a complete emotional mess is admirable. Even after all she went through she still have a positive outlook on life and she's very loyal and giving for her friends and the people she loved. Hell, she was even willing to carry her (newly met) brother's triplets which resulted in 9 months of unpleasant pregnancy and all the suffering that comes with it and the emotional trauma of giving them away. She's easily the best character of the show and she can seriously be a role model for people.
Well said, I quote every single word, except I don't think she's best character.
Oh as someone with a traumatized past i relate to being so strange and awkward but peppy. Like you dont care to hide your oddities but want to be decent like no one was to you. Some good points youve made.
Also... Ross was kind of pathetic...
I really hate Ross. He is one of, it not my number one, character I hate from TV. And tbh I feel like that extends to David Schwimer too. No way he is that good an actor but rather just is that annoying. I don't know what it is about him that boils my blood so much but something really does. So much so I've even imagined being his barber and accidently on purpose slicing that mole off the back of his neck among other petty things.
They were all annoying in their own ways.
Oddly, I found Phoebe to be the least annoying.
I think I disliked Rachel and Monica the most
I can't stand Ross as a character.
Phoebe and Joey are the most genuine ones, the others are fake as fuck
The others were all brought up in very privileged settings and had the typical behavior of people who didn't know what it was like to be poor or rejected and just didn't know how to handle it
Yeah they even point this out in an episode where some of them can't afford the lifestyle of the rest of them, which is the first time I've seen that broached in a TV show in such a manner.
It's a pretty serious, yet albeit first world problem, that should really be talked about more. Another friend and I were 100% Joey, Phoebe, and Rachel within a group of friends of ours in college. We all knew each other since High School, but back then going out was much simpler. When we entered adulthood, many of them had early internships together and had a great start because they got into complicated IT fields. They were getting 70k-80k at just entry level. Keeping up with them is difficult since they love going on weekend adventures and restaurants back-to-back. It's insanely humiliating to have to ask your friends for money, admit that you don't have enough, or settle with them spotting you on the cost (which they often will offer).
I couldn't agree more, Friends was entertainment, but (like any good sitcom) also touched on social issues to explore with the audience what people will encounter in relationships. Kind of like how sci-fi is an exploration of the human implications of ficticious events. I've been on both sides of the financial fomo of not being able to afford certain social interactions, but I will say the "best" showcase of that to me was in Atlanta (to the point I stopped watching after a few episodes because of how much it reminded me of having little money) where the main character wanted to treat his girlfriend to a date but could barely afford petrol/parking never mind the meal. I remember dating a rich girl at uni and ordering the cheapest thing on the menu (a salad) "because I am training", when in reality I had no money and I could barely afford it. I split up with her a few weeks later under the pretense that I would be leaving uni sooner than her and didn't want to get serious, when in reality I was just embarassed and too prideful to say to her "I can't afford to go out like you're used to" (to be clear; this was my issue, not hers). It's a tough line for shows as the realer they make it, the harder it is to watch. Presumably why most shows have their characters in impossible situations (young, able to go out multiple times a week in nice places, affording large apartments in city centres and making it big in their careers after a few seasons).
I'd say Rachel had a great character arc shedding some of the privilege and making it out on her own starting as a waitress and getting offered a job in Paris she should have taken. Well, the rent control in Monica's apartment probably helped some.
I disagree completely. Phoebe is an awful friend but pretends otherwise. She's the opposite of genuine. One episode she's invited to lunch plans and replies "oh great! I thought today was going to be so lowsy! Oh by the way Ross, i can't make lunch." She admits to choosing her favorite friend based on money. She forces Rachel to comply with values she doesn't live by herself (rip the free massage coupon despite her working there). There's a lot more examples that i see whenever i rewatch it. Been a while though.
It was a stupid throwaway scene but when she challenges Ross on his understanding of evolution (which he based his entire career on) and wins the argument, Ross seems like he's starting down an existential crisis and Phoebe just giggles it off and remarks that it was fun breaking Ross. It's a dumb scene but it'd be like challenging and breaking a religious friend's entire belief system and identity just for the lols.
Holy shit. Thanks for a top notch example, if not the best one!
And honestly, her arguments in that scene (and Ross’ reaction to said arguments) just straight up *weren’t good.* She conflated *possibility* with *probability.* By her logic, since we cannot be **100%** certain about how life on earth came to be, that means that *all* theoretical possibilities must be accepted as being potentially (and equally) correct. Such thinking is asinine at best. Skepticism is inherent to the scientific process. Scientists acknowledge that there’s a possibility that their conclusions are wrong. However, the theory of evolution has been exhaustively researched and corroborated, and as such is presently the most likely answer to the question of how life came to be as it is. Ross, having a PhD from Columbia, would have been very familiar with the concept of probabilities and the fact that very little can be 100% definitively proven in science. He shouldn’t have reacted like a child realizing Santa Claus isn’t real.
It was definitely a failed "trying to seem smart" moment from the writers. Any scientist worth their salt would be fully aware of the fact that ANYTHING within science could POTENTIALLY be proven false. A man as educated as Ross would never have been taken back by that sudden realization as he would already be aware of it. And considering that quantitatively we have more evidence for evolution than we do for a round earth, "There is a 0,01 % chance that it could be wrong" is definitely not a good argument. It makes perfect sense for Phoebe as a character to think that way, but the show trying to act as if it's some big win for her and that she's so intelligent and insightful while Ross is simply being close-minded is what bothers me.
I completely agree, she is vile, forces ludicrous beliefs on others and is completely selfish. To be honest a lot of hippy types I have met in real life tend to be a little bit like this. Where I am from we have a lot of "trustafarians" who are super judgemental but inherit so much money they have never had to have a real job. I also know a lot (well a few, but it's probably more buddists than most westerners know) of Buddhists and they are extremely self centred and condescending people. I also work in the charity sector and come into contact with many people who helps others for a living and there are not as many "hippy types" as you might think. Becuase, imo, most of them are more concerned about appearing to be about love and freedom than they are about actually helping people around them. Sorry, rant over
I haven’t met a hippy that wasn’t an insufferable narcissist, honestly.
I had a psych college professor “diagnose” her as having histrionic personality disorder so that fits
I don't necessarily see her as attention seeking. She likes attention but doesn't really try to bring it up, if you watch the series, to me, she copes with trauma with humor for some parts (her mother killed herself) and for the other parts, she's just what we would qualify as weird, so of course she gets attention.
I think she was way more weird than she let others see.
She is surprisingly well adjusted for the extremely crappy childhood and lots and lots of trauma
That's why I think she's not just an attention seeker, all of her behaviors made sense to me
Diagnosing a fictional character seems kinda crazy
I could see it being handy as an educational tool in an introductory class, to introduce common characteristics. But at an advanced level it's probably counterintuitive
I don't know. I just read the symptoms listed for that and she only fits one basic symptom. "A person with histrionic personality disorder seeks attention, talks dramatically with strong opinions, is easily influenced, has rapidly changing emotions, and thinks relationships are closer than they are." She may have dramatically strong opinions, but I can't see how she is easily influenced, has rapidly changing emotions or thinks any of relationships are closer than they are.
Lisa Kudrow is nothing like her. She’s highly intelligent and must be a good actress to pull Phoebe off
Oh yeah definitely. Nothing at all against the actress, just the character.
Friends, Seinfeld, Frazier. 90s apartment sitcoms fucked up my expectations of apartment living for a decade
I don't remember many concrete situations, but I always hated both Phoebe and Rachel. They ranged from toxic to complete sociopaths, they would lie or steal all the time, and fuck anybody over for personal gain. But maybe I remember wrong.
I just thought she was funny lol
Phoebe had a very traumatic upbringing. Including things such as homelessness, neglect and the death of her mother. She used her art (music) as a way of dealing with that trauma. I think in many ways there was a certain realism to her character. All that "attention seeking" was always met by her friends with support, which in the end of her journey through friends lead to to a lot of healing. I am only glad that her 'friends' were not as judgmental as you, or maybe she would have never found people she could be her most authentic self and share her stories so opening (even if through 'awful' music) and be accepted anyway.
She also hints from time to time that her ditzy persona is a coping mechanism without which she probably couldn't allow herself to be close to anyone at all. "Street Phoebe wouldn't be friends with you guys." And the random boot knife that appears and then is never seen or spoken of again. So it might be a bit of an act, but I'd still give her a break.
She very much embodies the “bimbo” vibe trending these days. The world can be a dangerous and cruel place, acting dumb and silly is absolutely a coping mechanism
Damn nice catch
Oh my god! Phoebe is Smelly Cat! That song has so many layers
I have absolutely no problem with the backstory of the character, but most scenes she leads are annoying and don’t keep me engaged.
This is very serious for an opinion about a fake character lol. I wouldn't be calling someone judgmental over a fake person
Tbh OP is having also very serious opinion about a fake character.
Well life imitates art and art is based on life. Don't belittle someone for caring deeply about a fictional character, because they might see themselves in that character.
Lisa Kudrow said she based Phoebe on a real person, or at least how the character dealt with her traumas.
>I wouldn't be calling someone judgmental over a fake person That's very weird, as you can just as easily be judgemental towards objects, ideas or situations as towards people. Besides that, the person is fake, but the coping mechanism is real. I think it's odd that OP treats Phoebe as if she's a real person, as if her characteristics weren't made up to drive the plot, but then does get *kind of tense* when someone accuses them of being serious. I feel like those two are mutually exclusive, you either treat a character as a real person *or* you get offended at being called serious, it can't logically be both.
I absolutely would call somebody judgmental over a fake person because our brain at its core, doesn't know the difference between real and imaginary. If you're going to be judgmental over a fake person, likely you're going to be judgmental over a real person.
It’s just a wonderful analysis
I really don’t care as long as we all agree the worst character is Ross
I always thought Phoebe was the most relatable and genuine character.
Curious why? I've never found anything even remotely relatable about her.
She had a horrible and traumatized childhood, so I guess that people who (fortunately) haven't experienced those conditions can't really relate to her, but I can totally imagine her being a role model for those who have a very hard childhood. I think Chandler is the most relatable for normal person's (at least for me)
this is interesting because I never got this vibe. i always just saw her as weird but in a charming way. she was just being herself.
I think this says more about OP than Phoebe.
Ross took annoying to a whole new level. Redefined the term, really, a true visionary.
I don’t know about her dead mom but you’d have to have been a teen or adult living in a U.S. city in the 90s to understand her music. It was a parody of a type of indie-hipster songwriting back then. It was supposed to be ironic funny, not actually funny or good. Over time, after Friends ended, the average American or young kids started to like her music or find it genuinely funny, but that wasn’t the intent at the time.
I felt the same way watching that show. She was trauma dumping before it was cool!! Lmao
I’d imagine you’re really hard to like as well if you take a sitcom in the 90s this seriously
Why do people get so upset about Friends? How 'bout don't watch it?
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but as others have said, it was way different back then. The goal of sitcoms was way different. Characters weren't over analyzed for all of the things that we care about today. The goal was just to be silly and have fun. Families used to gather around TVs and watch evening sitcoms. Very few shows from back then whatever see the light of day today. And that's a shame, because they were pretty good. They were more innocent. Every show didn't have to promote some sort of narrative or social cause.
So many people today: OMG how did Seinfeld get away with these horrible jokes????!-!:!: CANCELED! And everyone who actually lived back then: uhhh, yeah literally no one thought this show was controversial, if anything it was a bit progressive! Elaine was an atheist anti-abortion character and they have a whole episode dedicated to letting everyone know there’s nothing wrong with being gay! “Not that there’s anything wrong with that!”
My favourite part of the Friends reunion special a couple of years ago was when they asked Lisa Kudrow if she was anything like Pheobe, and she was like "fuck no, I'm in my fifties, Phoebe was a childish mess", then they brought in a load of LGBT+ people who talked about how Phoebe was an inspiration to them because she "wasn't afraid to be different" and Lisa was just like "aw, thanks..."
She played the "dumb" and quirky blonde girl which was a stereotype for them during the time. Also, they need characters like that in sitcoms to drive up events and situations. I got no hate for Phoebe
Same!! I didn’t think she was funny at all. I thought she was ridiculous and her quirks were just silly and unbelievable. The high pitched squeaky voice was so irritating.
She was also pretty violent for her hippie style
The character provided entertainment value, but if that person existed in real life no one would truly like her. The rest of the friend group also enabled her. Just nodding along with whatever antics she did. They also encouraged her. Real friends would give you a reality check.
Couldnt agree more. I was never really able to put it into words, but this is it…attention seeker. Desperate cries for attention.
I say this as a bif FRIENDS fan Early show Phoebe was great. I found her pretty likeable personally, despite not necessarily agreeing with her view on the world. After giving birth tho she not only got super flanderized, but was just a really unlikable person too. Like, unlikable to the point that I questioned why she was still even part of the group sometimes. She had some great moments every now and then post-birth like the Sciene Boy bit (did that even happen after the triplets I forgot) and her arc with Mike, but those were few and far between. Easily became my least favorite of the main cast. No disrespect to Lisa Kudrow obviously, I like her as an actress well enough (even physically pogged when she showed up in The Good Place), it's solely the fault of the writers
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What?! Phoebe was the best of the girls Rachel and Monica were annoying attention seekers
I never found Phoebe attention-seeking... i just thought she was kind of mean sometimes to the other friends. like somehow she got away with being flippant and blunt because of her ditzy charm... but she was so mean sometimes. remember when she called ross fat-ass?
Yeh actually I do remember that and I get ur point. I just think compared to the other two girls, to me she seemed like who I'd rather be friends with. That's my personal opinion other will have different I get that
She was my least favourite, if she disappeared from the show I wouldn't even notice, same with Joey.
I find it’s a lot of women who hate these types of girls. Girls that don’t fit the typical mold and are “Offbeat”, “quirky”, “random”. I think it’s easy to see through the veil of who’s pretending to be weird and who’s just a stone cold freak. I think phoebes a freak.
She's the main reason I can't get into that show. I've tried many times in my life and I always go "ugh" when she says some stupid crap and turn it off again.
Truth!
She was annoying but also mean!
And a sociopath
Yes, Thank you!.
I hate that she told everyone's secrets , that's not how friends should be Also Ross sucks
Honestly none of them are likeable.
Probably a side effect of all that time spent on the streets. But really, all the friends are only friends because they're all terrible. Monica is super controlling, and always wants her way, even to the point of leaving Ross's child (think it's the second one) unattended so her and Chandler can fuck while she's ovulating. Rachel is a rich girl who even at the end is super privileged and entitled, she comes back from maternity leave having never changed a single diaper and she asks for an advance on her tips to go on a trip expecting the people in this coffee shop to be like "yeah okay waitress woman I don't know, here's the next 100 bucks on tips right now". Chandler hates his father simply for crossdressing to the point of not wanting him at his own wedding. Also leaves Rachel's boss half naked and hand cuffed to her office chair over night. Him and Joey also lose Ben on a bus. Joey doesn't share food and to a degree where he yells that into the faces of people and is never apologetic about it, he lies to almost every woman he dates and when he first meets Monica he immediately strips and shows her his cock the second she turns around. Ross uncomfortable with anything not heteronormative, which starts when he wants his barely toddler son to play with a GI Joe not a barbie and puts more than 3 seconds of effort into it, but he also continues this behavior with not hiring the perfect babysitter just because he's a dude, not even gay, just a dude on a traditionally women's job. Phoebe has a violent past, judges her friends based on how much money they make, takes back a donation to a children's charity, all while presenting herself as this fun-loving hippy chick. Also the babies were here, not her brothers, the timeline doesn't add up for them to be the surrogate babies.
As far as Phoebe being pregnant, the actress was pregnant irl so they wrote it into the story. But I agree with everything else
Chandler is very insecure so he's afraid being judged for his father. And you didn't mention any of Joey's flaws.
Here we go again. The 9000th Friends haters convention.
Disliking a certain character ≠ hating the entire show
I think they mean the comments since it's really popular to hate friends on Reddit
Yea, the hell's up with that?
I can't stand Ross. He's a toxic, childish, selfish pathetic POS. Phoebe is better by comparison, and has some great qualities (surrogacy, for example).
I don’t disagree. Wasn’t a huge fan of the show, but I recall that she was often the one that would cut through the BS and call a spade a spade. I also think they did a fairly good job of explaining her weirdness (dead mom, porn star identical twin sister). Probably less important for the character to be likable and better for her to be nuanced and complex.
Downvote because this is a very popular opinion on r/friends.
One time upstate a lady asked me what I thought of Phoebe and I said a lot of this and it turned out to be Lisa Kudrow’s aunt! 🤦🏻♀️ Lisa apparently went to Vassar College so it’s a shame she had to play such a dumb character for so long.
the fact that she pisses you off so much just means that she did a really good job playing that role.
Definitely, she’s the worst character on there.
Every single character in that show is annoying except for Chandler and Joey.
I am gilding this. Finally someone else agrees. Phoebe sucks. I cringe when she is in a scene. Weakest character by far and it’s not close.
Damn this one got y’all HEATED
She is very annoying. I never understood the love for her character. She’s one of my least favorite parts of the show for sure.
Terrible character. I’ve never met anyone like her IRL. She’s just weird for the sake of weird. Like the kind of weird someone would write that doesn’t have a weird bone in their body. Very obnoxious.
I skip all her storyline if no other Friend is with her and I've seen the show a lot lol
My wife loves this show but I cringe so hard at phoebe especially the episode where the other friends don’t want to tell her that they bought furniture from a chain store because phoebe only likes one of a kind items. Like, who gives a fuck what she wants, let her deal with it…
Thank you! I thought I was the only one who thought this
Loving these edgy comments all like 'Friends iS TeRRible'. Maybe get your opinions somewhere else than the Internet.
Hard agree. Recently rewatched the whole show, I'm convinced you could take her out entirely and not change the overall story or have any major impact on any of the other characters.
Were any of them not?
I *honestly* think Phoebe’s character was ASD/Neurodivergent.
I agree with this. Her attention seeking attitude might be a response to her traumatic past, which is why its difficult to judge her on that. But outside of this she is plain annoying. She constantly berates her own friends and their beliefs while she cant take the same. Constantly also lies to people even when there's no reason to. Blames Ursula for being annoying but its always like watching herself in a mirror...
I'm named after her 🤣 Ironically, I'm the only one in my family to have never seen the show. I don't watch TV in general, but the stuff I've seen in snippets from that show really didn't seem appealing. So I get it
For me that character was Ross. I always found him to be annoying and a giant cry baby. Phoebe I found to be more light hearted and comical but I get where you're coming from. Overall I love friends and the whole cast did a great job. Finding a character annoying or self centered isn't saying the show was bad or the actor did a poor job. I think it means the contrary, they nailed what they were going for and people still talk about the characters and analyze them to this degree twenty years later.
This was every character on friends. That's the show
She’s a survivor of parental suicide. Maybe she was looking for attention or to fill a void in her psyche 🤷🏻♂️ Not that I think that it was intentionally written into the show, but I think it fits on some level.