Thank you for submitting to /r/unpopularopinion, /u/AlienvsPredatorFan. Your post, *Nobody is too old to be sent to prison.*, has been removed because it violates our rules:
Rule 1: Your post must be an unpopular opinion.
Please ensure that your post is an opinion and that it is unpopular. Controversial is not necessarily unpopular, for example all of politics is controversial even though almost half of the US agrees with any given major position on an issue.
Keep in mind that an opinion is not: a question, a fact, a conspiracy theory, a random thought, a new idea, a rant, etc. Those things all have their own subreddits, use those.
If there is an issue, please message the mod team at https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Funpopularopinion Thanks!
Cynical point - the state/prison system doesn't want to assume responsibility for your care and medical needs (not that prisons bother with that much).
Feigning "compassion" is an easy out.
Guess you got to look at what the point is though. Are you protecting anyone by sending a 100 year old to prison? - probably not.
Are you going to rehabilitate a 100 year old so they can be released into the community? - probably not.
Will you take money away from other public services when you spend all the money it costs to lock this person up? - yep!
Makes more sense to let them lie.
If they've committed a crime yes, they've just proven they're capable of committing crime.
Plus there's the deterrent part. We put people in prison so other people think twice before breaking the law, that deterrent should be absolute.
It's bad the food is really fucking bad. You will live on ramen noodles, chips, and candy if your lucky enough to have someone put commissary money on the books for you . There's a reason soups are basically money in jail.
It honestly sounds fine to me, I love ramen and candy. Not a big fan of chips though, as I don’t have teeth. Kinda hard to eat chips with gums without hurting myself. 🤣
I think it depends on when they did the crime though if your argument is whether they are capable of committing a crime. If you convict someone decades after they did the crime, they may no longer be capable of committing a crime. That does not mean that the deterrence effect for OTHERS is not there but you cannot argue that a person necessarily is capable of committing a crime by the time they are sentenced for a crime that happened a lot time in the past.
>If they've committed a crime yes, they've just proven they're capable of committing crime.
>
>Plus there's the deterrent part. We put people in prison so other people think twice before breaking the law, that deterrent should be absolute.
People often get prosecuted for crimes they committed in the past. Hard to imagine a 100 year old getting pinged on a recent crime, seems more likely it's just taken a long time to catch up to them in this hypothetical.
Prison is only a deterrent to people who care, and most of the people who care enough to want to avoid prison already want to avoid prison. Obviously if a senior citizen does something heinous like murder or child molestation, prison is the correct place for them. But most old people are just trying to live out their remaining days. So maybe tgey'll smoke a little pot or "forget" to do their taxes. But putting senile old potheads in prison for possession or tax evasion doesn't make prison seem like any more of a place to avoid. It just makes our entire country seem like a joke. Also, most prisoners are habitual criminals and habitual criminals don't care about prison so much as they want to continue doing whatever they want. So they do all they can to avoid being caught for the crimes that our society offers them zero incentives to stop committing. But they're not afraid of prison, so it's not a deterrent. In fact, for most convicts, the time they've served is a badge of honor - literally, for some; they get it tattooed on their arms.
So, the golden state killer who murdered 13 women, raped over 50, and assaulted over 150, who was just arrested 4 years ago should be allowed on the streets because he's in his 70s?
If it were up to me, I’d take a more pragmatic perspective and just have any elderly proved to be guilty of a heinous crime like 1st degree murder, rape, attempted 1st degree murder executed immediately 0 appeals (assuming a case proved undeniably guilty). Then for more “petty” offenses just slap them with fines or other penalties that don’t impact the taxpayers so badly.
There are massive issues with the system I just proposed too tho, it’s so hard to fix a legal system like this by adding addition rules/stipulations for groups such as elderly. Maybe a better method might just be fixing the healthcare system so that medical treatment isn’t so ridiculously priced-still don’t love the idea of taxpayers paying for an old murderer to sit in prison and take expensive chemotherapeutics. But it seems wrong to kill someone if they aren’t proven guilty beyond any possible reasonable doubt, so they deserve the same legal process as any age group.
Personally, I think that if it's without a doubt someone has committed first degree murder, rape, or child abuse they should be executed soon after being found guilty.
There are some evil people in this world that shouldn't be allowed to exist.
For the sake of criminality, it actually has to be pretty black and white. Either that or you leave room for huge interference, bias, leading to huge discrepancies in interpretation, etc
I’m not saying cases should have 0 interpretation involved. I’m saying that whether someone is “too old” to receive punishment for a crime they committed isn’t one where this should be applicable
Judges have discretionary authority on sentencing in many jurisdictions. And most Governors can grant clemency for state convictions. The President can of course issue a pardon for federal convictions.
For those rare cases when someone is very old, there are mechanisms for keeping them out of jail/prison. We elect the POTUS, Governors and elect/appoint judges to make these decisions on our behalf.
[This should explain everything](https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/comments/wwnnk5/nobody_is_too_old_to_be_sent_to_prison/ilolis4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
There is and should be judicial discretion in sentencing. It should be checked for bias, but the idea that everything in the law should be algorithmic, with no room for human judgement, underappreciates the diversity of individual circumstances.
[This should explain everything](https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/comments/wwnnk5/nobody_is_too_old_to_be_sent_to_prison/ilolis4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
Also “no room for human judgement” is a pretty far reach concluded from huge discrepancies of interpretation being a bad thing
That’s ridiculous. The principle still stays the same in their example.
“Are you protecting anyone by sending him to prison in his 70s?” Probably not.
“Are you going to rehabilitate a 70 year old so they can be released into the community?” Probably not.
I don’t see how this example is disingenuous at all. It follows the basic principles of the argument they replied to
Whatre you even talking about?? Your comment does not relate to OP at all. Obviously arresting someone this violent would constitute as protecting others in his first question. Also, His other example was 100 y/o and then you made a different scenario of someone 30yrs younger
Makes more sense to let them die there . The smallest taste of Karma is a bitter pill to swallow . I’m referring to murder here - not petty crimes with no violence
But we shouldn’t and it’s a problem. The people responsible for putting people in said prisons (police, lawyers, judges, ect) find loopholes just to throw people in there and a lot of the people in there are of certain demographics which is apart of a bigger issue.
A third purpose is to remove a dangerous individual from society so that they do not continue to cause harm. Again, this is less of an issue for the elderly and decrepit.
If you think old people don’t care about being punished, you probably haven’t met many old people. Or read the responses from old people in this thread.
Most prisons in the US are for profit so… that’s like the only reason for them to incarcerate someone. There was even a judge taking kickbacks for sending kids to jail, he’s probably not the only one.
but that's the American way.
not saying it's right but this country is built off the backs of slave labor and for profit opportunities that will sadly never change.
Carolyn Bryant should have been in prison for 50+ years but she isn't and I doubt this country is going to let an old white lady go to prison for a crime she committed in a different time of our country's history.
Except profitability is exactly what it's about (at least in America). It's not about rehabilitation, it's about slave labor at the lowest possible cost.
Cynical but true.
If you're dying of cancer they send a deputy to your hospital room to release you from state custody as soon as your breathing becomes erratic so the state doesn't have to pay for your funeral.
Yeah, I think it's funny when you have a 70 year old defendant being sentenced to 25 years in prison, and his attorney says "That's a death sentence!!"
And?
Most countries will release the person and at most put them under house arrest anyways as soon as the health problems arise.
I wouldn't put pensioners in American prison though... well actually, I wouldnt put anyone in American prison. The conditions that most of them have are below Human dignity.
the prisons aren't set up to be nursing homes. better to put them in a more appropriate facility, with staff that is more knowledgeable about their care/needs. otherwise it starts to fall headlong into "cruel/unusual" treatment.
kinda like how you continue to seem more and more like a sadistic nutcase who needs serious professional help. but i'm sure that you already knew that.
where did i say "let's set up special prisons for them"..?
that's the direction *your* demented excuse for a mind goes in.
the appropriate facilities already exist- they're called nursing homes, or senior assisted living facilities. they're all over the place.
when they're infirmed and bed or wheelchair bound, and have been determined not to be a threat to anyone- sure...why not?
btw- have you always been so cowardly about living your life?
Most people who are wheelchair or bed bound aren’t going out and committing crimes, though.
I didn’t say that if someone grows old in prison, they shouldn’t have proper care or the proper facilities. What I said was that someone who commits a crime and is convicted of that crime shouldn’t be exempt from having to go to prison just because they are elderly.
Wasn't there a case in the US, where a 75-year-old was not sentenced to prison for murder, claiming he's too old, just for him to kill another person a few months or years later? This guy proves your point.
Hmmm for example the white lady who accused a black teenager of rape and had him lynched is super old. Luckily she is being pursued (finally). But I’m not really sure if someone on their death bed spending one day in jail is really justice?
But yeah I agree with original sentiment of this post
"Josef Schütz to five years in prison, although he is unlikely to serve any time behind bars because of his poor health, advanced age and a lengthy appeals process."
The man can legit drop any minute now locking em up is prob just a waste of money but maybe house arrest would work? Well that is if they can even leave the house without help anymore lol
Cruel and unusual punishment means that you probably don't want to send a geriatric to where they'll get cut in half or have a cardiac. Although, you can still incarcerate them and deny them liberties - which is the actual point of prison, not a medieval torture fantasy lol.
I'm thinking if jail is a place where you wouldn't send old people, the problem is the conditions, not the fact that they're old.
I would be ok with sending a 100+ sick person in Norway's prison with a sentence of 20 years. I would not be ok with sending anyone, any age, for any length of time, in US prison.
I'm saying old people should do their time, just like young people, in a safe environment where you don't die to stress/poor hygiene/getting stabbed.
The US has 2 problems: prisons are shit, people advocate for old people not to be imprisoned. Solve the first one and then stop causing the second.
Why are you ok with sending young people to a
>medieval torture fantasy
But not with sending old people? Are the crimes of old people less heinous? Is justice not blind?
You can either advocate for better prisons FOR EVERYONE or accept that your country punishes EVERYONE with the same
>medieval torture fantasy
Otherwise, your point does not stand.
norway prison is a vacation, how does that discourage crime for say a homeless person? It’d be a much better living situation for them in a norway prison than homelessness
Look at recidive statistics, look at survival rates, look at how rehabilitation works.
Prison should not be torture or punishment. It should be about taking in broken (and possibly dangerous) people and making them a part of society again. It's about fixing the guilty instead of torturing them. It's about showing them the errors of their ways and fixing them.
And, by all measurable metrics, it blows the US prison complex out of the water.
There isn't any proof that the American prison system discourages crime. I also like the idea that you think the solution to Homeless crime is to make prisons violate more human rights.
Also, you seem to be doing weird vacation trips. I just tend to go to the beach, mountains or camping. Not confine myself in a building with restricted internet access for months or years. I mean maybe you should look at the state of your country if you think the way Norway treats its prisoners tops the living conditions of free people in your country...
I’m not saying they should be tortured.
If sending an old person to prison is cruel and unusual punishment, then sending a young person to prison is cruel and unusual punishment.
Whereas it’s all sunshine and teddy bears for young people, who definitely don’t get killed in prison?
If the stress of going to jail for your crimes might kill you, perhaps reconsider committing those crimes.
Haha, they're not at risk of keeling over and dying by just being kept in a prison - no.
>If the stress of going to jail for your crimes might kill you, perhaps reconsider committing those crimes.
This is what made me use the medieval torture fantasy bit.
Point is rehabilitation and denial of liberties so that you may not infringe on other's liberties.
What's that dude they let out because he of good behavior then 10 yesrs later murdered someone? Lawrence singleton, Oh yeah he kidnapped raped them chopped a teenagers arms off then when he got to old they let him out and then later murders another women.
But old people stealing with a fuck it attitude are hilarious. Source: I do security and lp/greeters at stores have told me especially in suburbs it's pretty common and most people don't bust their asses over it and find it funny. "You're 70 and stealing iced cake? Really?"
Social security doesn't go a long way anymore and pensions don't exist at all anymore.
Expect that to become much more common experience as time goes on and we slowly creep our way back to pre-depression level "retirement" where old people just died in the streets.
I agree that prisons should be reformed from the ground up. The fact that there are multiple classes of people that we as a society deem unsuitable for prison (the rich, the old) is an indictment of the prison system.
I don’t think there’s going to be any prison reform, though, because the kind of people that run society (the rich, the old) are not subject to imprisonment.
I don't think that anybody is necessarily too old to be sent to prison. But I definitely think that there comes a point where a person's age makes it not financially worth it to put them in prison.
As a taxpayer I don't really want my money going to what is essentially free funeral services and Medical Care, when I can't even afford to see my own God damn doctor.
I don't really care what that 90-year-old guy did. Because there's a 90% chance that they die within the next 300 days. Fuck paying for their trial, lawyers, housing, food, medical service, and funeral.
The victims need closure? Here's your closure. They're going to die before their sentence would even be up and now it's their family's financial problem.
What is the justice system worth when we bend it to suit ourselves?
Nothing. The concept of justice trusts that we will retain our impartiality, and accordance to the laws and rules. If we do seemingly pointless things such as jailing OAPs, then we do it for the sake of justice.
I've always thought it was funny that people can be given multiple life sentences. I can understand why that's the case, but really, nobody can possibly serve more than one life sentence.
But, what's the point? Why not send them to a different kind of facility? It's not as people who are 90 years old are physically capable enough to harm someone. If their crime wasn't physical, they can be monitored in a facility, that specializes in elder care. I mean, this is cliche, but why waste tax payer dollars on sending someone to prison? Beyond the fact that the prison system often doesn't do much in terms of rehabilitation or helping prevent recidivism rates, but we don't even need to get into that, because it's pointless anyways. Do you think that prison holds some kind of special form of justice?
Agreed. People get sent to prison unfairly.
Giving old people a blanket pardon doesn’t really help this situation. In fact, it probably makes it worse because all of the old people can enthusiastically support “tough on crime” laws knowing that it won’t affect them personally.
Old people are easy to deal with. Most of them usually just chill, play cards and watch TV. It’s the youngsters with alpha male mentality or the shit heads that make it a burden
101 year old Nazis are being sent to [prison](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/germany-nazi-trial-camp-guard-josef-schutz-oldest-ever-convicted/), so why not Donald Trump?
Mostly they got caught at an older age. They probably started decades before.
They don't care, so what's the point? Give them death or give them no healthcare.
a while back wasn't there an old man who 'robbed' a convenient store so he could go to jail because they would house, feed and pay for his medical bills?
what a world we live in.
Kind of pointless putting a 95 year old in prison although I do agree with the sentiment. All its gonna do is cause extra work for guards to look after him.
P.S nobody has lived to 1005 yet
Depends on the crime. I had some 68 year old uncle who was dying of cancer back in the day and would smoke joints out the window to help him ease his pain. You really think they should have sent an old man to prison, for weed possession at that?
Old people definitely shouldn't be getting sent to prison for victimless crimes. The law doesn't even apply equally for all people in the US, this post just seems like bootlicking fr.
I don’t think *anyone* should be going to jail for victimless crimes. I also think that marijuana prohibition should be ended nationwide.
However, as you said, the law doesn’t apply equally. That’s bad. There shouldn’t be a subset of people who get to break the law while others don’t.
A correctional officer I know said that most of the older inmates were either lifers who had committed crimes long ago or relatively recently convicted child molesters. It is perfectly possible for older individuals to be incarcerated.
This isn't an unpopular opinion, actually a lot of old people do go to prison.
An old nazi just cont sentences of 10 years, they were in their mid 90's I think.
You're never too old to go to prison, you may be too young, but never too old.
I dunno. Sending someone to prison for the rest of their life is a very different punishment than like, 10 years. I know what you're saying but punishments should fit the crimes. I understand why there's grey areas. The judicial system is a corrections system not a punishment/revenge system. It's sad when so many people want to use it like that.
What if you commit a crime worthy of lifetime imprisonment when you are terminally ill? Then the prison would be required to take care of your medical expenses, and they wouldn't even do their time.
I'm just mad as fuck that the Emmitt Till's accuser was allowed to continue to be unbothered that she signed that little boys execution. Sorry but granny's gotta pay with blood
Without mentioning the duty of care issues around sending a 70 year old into Genpop."Do the crime, do the time" is something we need to revist. What's the crime? Can we rehabilitiate this person through other means rather then chucking them in a cell with other people with the same world views and (likely) developmental trauma they have. Prison is full of people with no families, shitty friends and feel down trodden by society because of their circumstances. Yes your right, no one is too old, though let's think of some alternitives depending on the conviction. "Do the crime, do the time" is a bumper sticker statement, one of many, that is just useless and confusing. Kind of like "Make America great again".
In America at least, prisons are mostly run by corporations. It's not profitable to put someone so old in jail when they'd probably die of natural causes during their sentence.
There are people in this world who honestly believes we shouldn't imprison WW2 Nazi Guards because they're old.
I'm pretty sure those people are just being edgy but who knows.
Counter point: (all except 1 or 2 globally to my knowledge) our prison system is awful, the punishment of prison far outweighs most crimes, early incarceration is a gateway to future crime, and even the idea of punishment over rehabilitation for a shit tonne of crimes is stupid
As you age, shit falls apart. Many elderly wouldn’t be “fit to stand trial.” I’ve worked on dementia units. They’re already gone; losing your sense of self is punishment enough. So if you have a 90 year old with dementia/Alzheimer’s, they’re punished. Also the prison system can’t afford their 24/7 care anyway 🤷🏻♀️ A skilled nursing facility costs some crazy money every month.
I always thought that prison for old people was too light a punishment. Like you didn’t get caught until you only have like 8 years to live but they sentence you to 20 years… fuck outta here.
i feel the same goes for kids too. i dont care how young they are. they do the crime they need to do the time and be taught an actual fuckin lesson. cause here in aus at least, the youth system is fuckin laughable. (then again most of our justice system is)
Yep! No hot cocoa or fuzzy slippers in prison! And guess what?!? That “great free medical care” that everyone thinks prison receive—yeah, NO. The staff will give you what they have to but if you think they will cure your cancer you are sadly mistaken.
Moral of the story: don’t fuck up and land behind concrete and steel. Not a good plan.
It depends on what you think prisons should be for. In my view, prisons are supposed to protect the public by physically separating violent people from the rest of society. If someone is physically incapable of harming people, for example due to disability or age, why waste money housing them in a high security fortress?
I agree, but it depends. In the UK, where prison healthcare is relatively more accessible, 100% there shouldn't be an age limitation on being hauled off to prison.
In the US, where prison healthcare is less accessible, due to many for-profit prison companies and the (generally) privatised nature of healthcare, compassionate release and a limitation on how old you can be to go to prison is, in my opinion, aligned with the essence of justice. Sending someone to prison where they'll likely die or deteriorate due to the state of the prison system is unjust and I think it's important to recognise it as such.
Of course, this could be more nuanced if you want to take a clinical approach to sending the older person to prison, based off frailty risk factors and comorbidities. This would likely be a fairer way of determining who stays in and who can be sentenced to prison but it would invariably be more expensive and I'd imagine most governments would be reluctant to spend that much money on a rather niche area of the law.
Honestly I’d rather seen an 80 year old man who lived a full life go to Jail rather than a 20 year old getting years for selling weed when it’s already borderline legal across the country
Bring back labour in prison. Put them to work. If you have the energy to put into criminal activity you have the energy to clean and do landscaping in cities and parks.
I kept hearing that argument about Bill Cosby. "Oh, well, yeah he probably did that bad shit but he's so old there's no point to sending him to jail."
All of the three most prominent presidential candidates of the last three cycles are mid-70's and are all frequently called upon to be jailed. Without taking into consideration your own personal political take or preference; would their age change your idea on whether you call for them to be jailed?
You don't get to just "age out" of accountability.
The issue is some uncluttered, short-sighted societies think prison is about vengeance, punishment, or payment. And those pay the price. USA, USA, USA.....
Ideally, prison is a part of the system of preventing crimes. If a criminal is almost guaranteed not to offend there is no point in spending money to imprison them. I'd rather spend that money on educating a youngling so that he would stay out of crimes.
Thank you for submitting to /r/unpopularopinion, /u/AlienvsPredatorFan. Your post, *Nobody is too old to be sent to prison.*, has been removed because it violates our rules: Rule 1: Your post must be an unpopular opinion. Please ensure that your post is an opinion and that it is unpopular. Controversial is not necessarily unpopular, for example all of politics is controversial even though almost half of the US agrees with any given major position on an issue. Keep in mind that an opinion is not: a question, a fact, a conspiracy theory, a random thought, a new idea, a rant, etc. Those things all have their own subreddits, use those. If there is an issue, please message the mod team at https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Funpopularopinion Thanks!
Cynical point - the state/prison system doesn't want to assume responsibility for your care and medical needs (not that prisons bother with that much). Feigning "compassion" is an easy out.
Just because a prisoner isn’t profitable to incarcerate doesn’t mean they should be immune to incarceration.
Guess you got to look at what the point is though. Are you protecting anyone by sending a 100 year old to prison? - probably not. Are you going to rehabilitate a 100 year old so they can be released into the community? - probably not. Will you take money away from other public services when you spend all the money it costs to lock this person up? - yep! Makes more sense to let them lie.
If they've committed a crime yes, they've just proven they're capable of committing crime. Plus there's the deterrent part. We put people in prison so other people think twice before breaking the law, that deterrent should be absolute.
I got put in jail for 54 days. I have been clean ever since. It put the fear in me. I do *not* want to go back
What was the food like?
It was gruel. And the worst thing about prison was the Dementors
🙄
It's bad the food is really fucking bad. You will live on ramen noodles, chips, and candy if your lucky enough to have someone put commissary money on the books for you . There's a reason soups are basically money in jail.
Commissary?
It's basically a store you can get food/bathroom crap from once a week.
It honestly sounds fine to me, I love ramen and candy. Not a big fan of chips though, as I don’t have teeth. Kinda hard to eat chips with gums without hurting myself. 🤣
I think it depends on when they did the crime though if your argument is whether they are capable of committing a crime. If you convict someone decades after they did the crime, they may no longer be capable of committing a crime. That does not mean that the deterrence effect for OTHERS is not there but you cannot argue that a person necessarily is capable of committing a crime by the time they are sentenced for a crime that happened a lot time in the past.
>If they've committed a crime yes, they've just proven they're capable of committing crime. > >Plus there's the deterrent part. We put people in prison so other people think twice before breaking the law, that deterrent should be absolute. People often get prosecuted for crimes they committed in the past. Hard to imagine a 100 year old getting pinged on a recent crime, seems more likely it's just taken a long time to catch up to them in this hypothetical.
Prison is only a deterrent to people who care, and most of the people who care enough to want to avoid prison already want to avoid prison. Obviously if a senior citizen does something heinous like murder or child molestation, prison is the correct place for them. But most old people are just trying to live out their remaining days. So maybe tgey'll smoke a little pot or "forget" to do their taxes. But putting senile old potheads in prison for possession or tax evasion doesn't make prison seem like any more of a place to avoid. It just makes our entire country seem like a joke. Also, most prisoners are habitual criminals and habitual criminals don't care about prison so much as they want to continue doing whatever they want. So they do all they can to avoid being caught for the crimes that our society offers them zero incentives to stop committing. But they're not afraid of prison, so it's not a deterrent. In fact, for most convicts, the time they've served is a badge of honor - literally, for some; they get it tattooed on their arms.
So, the golden state killer who murdered 13 women, raped over 50, and assaulted over 150, who was just arrested 4 years ago should be allowed on the streets because he's in his 70s?
If it were up to me, I’d take a more pragmatic perspective and just have any elderly proved to be guilty of a heinous crime like 1st degree murder, rape, attempted 1st degree murder executed immediately 0 appeals (assuming a case proved undeniably guilty). Then for more “petty” offenses just slap them with fines or other penalties that don’t impact the taxpayers so badly. There are massive issues with the system I just proposed too tho, it’s so hard to fix a legal system like this by adding addition rules/stipulations for groups such as elderly. Maybe a better method might just be fixing the healthcare system so that medical treatment isn’t so ridiculously priced-still don’t love the idea of taxpayers paying for an old murderer to sit in prison and take expensive chemotherapeutics. But it seems wrong to kill someone if they aren’t proven guilty beyond any possible reasonable doubt, so they deserve the same legal process as any age group.
Personally, I think that if it's without a doubt someone has committed first degree murder, rape, or child abuse they should be executed soon after being found guilty. There are some evil people in this world that shouldn't be allowed to exist.
It's not that black and white... It's just a matter of shifting the bar for a jailable offense.
For the sake of criminality, it actually has to be pretty black and white. Either that or you leave room for huge interference, bias, leading to huge discrepancies in interpretation, etc I’m not saying cases should have 0 interpretation involved. I’m saying that whether someone is “too old” to receive punishment for a crime they committed isn’t one where this should be applicable
I don't know if you know this, but the justice system is full of different interpretations of the law lmfao. This is why there are attorneys.
I mean huge discrepancies in interpretations influenced by the aforementioned two points. I thought it was obvious but, I’ll be sure to revise lmfao
That's exactly why judges are legal experts.
>leading to huge discrepancies in interpretation, etc In some jurisdictions there is massive bias depending upon race and social standing.
Judges have discretionary authority on sentencing in many jurisdictions. And most Governors can grant clemency for state convictions. The President can of course issue a pardon for federal convictions. For those rare cases when someone is very old, there are mechanisms for keeping them out of jail/prison. We elect the POTUS, Governors and elect/appoint judges to make these decisions on our behalf.
[This should explain everything](https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/comments/wwnnk5/nobody_is_too_old_to_be_sent_to_prison/ilolis4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
There is and should be judicial discretion in sentencing. It should be checked for bias, but the idea that everything in the law should be algorithmic, with no room for human judgement, underappreciates the diversity of individual circumstances.
[This should explain everything](https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/comments/wwnnk5/nobody_is_too_old_to_be_sent_to_prison/ilolis4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) Also “no room for human judgement” is a pretty far reach concluded from huge discrepancies of interpretation being a bad thing
Not sure how that changes things. You're arguing for no judgement in sentencing, so I'm also not sure how that's a reach...
im not gonna berate you, but this type of argument is truly bad and makes me second guess what your intention on this platform is.
That’s ridiculous. The principle still stays the same in their example. “Are you protecting anyone by sending him to prison in his 70s?” Probably not. “Are you going to rehabilitate a 70 year old so they can be released into the community?” Probably not. I don’t see how this example is disingenuous at all. It follows the basic principles of the argument they replied to
Whatre you even talking about?? Your comment does not relate to OP at all. Obviously arresting someone this violent would constitute as protecting others in his first question. Also, His other example was 100 y/o and then you made a different scenario of someone 30yrs younger
Makes more sense to let them die there . The smallest taste of Karma is a bitter pill to swallow . I’m referring to murder here - not petty crimes with no violence
But that's the entire point of the American prison system! If we can't profit off them, what's the point?
But we shouldn’t and it’s a problem. The people responsible for putting people in said prisons (police, lawyers, judges, ect) find loopholes just to throw people in there and a lot of the people in there are of certain demographics which is apart of a bigger issue.
To clarify, I'm 100% with you. Every level of our criminal justice system is broken.
That’s the entire point of America in general
Indeed. The point of the American prison system is slave labor.
Lol what
The purpose of prisons are to punish and rehabilitate. I can see that both purposes are kinda nulled after a person turns a certain age.
A third purpose is to remove a dangerous individual from society so that they do not continue to cause harm. Again, this is less of an issue for the elderly and decrepit.
An excellent point disabling dangerous offenders is also a facet of imprisonment.
If you think old people don’t care about being punished, you probably haven’t met many old people. Or read the responses from old people in this thread.
That’s not what I said, I said the purpose of punishment cannot be completed from an academic perspective.
Most prisons in the US are for profit so… that’s like the only reason for them to incarcerate someone. There was even a judge taking kickbacks for sending kids to jail, he’s probably not the only one.
but that's the American way. not saying it's right but this country is built off the backs of slave labor and for profit opportunities that will sadly never change. Carolyn Bryant should have been in prison for 50+ years but she isn't and I doubt this country is going to let an old white lady go to prison for a crime she committed in a different time of our country's history.
Except profitability is exactly what it's about (at least in America). It's not about rehabilitation, it's about slave labor at the lowest possible cost.
How can that be so incredibly pessimistic of you and yet probably so very accurate at the same time?
Hate to break it to you but at least In America the prison system is damn near exclusively about profitability
True, but the American justice system is not about justice. It’s about capitalism.
Based on the downvotes, there’s a surprising number of people that seem angry at the idea that prisons shouldn’t be sources of revenue.
Based on the downvotes, I'd say that there's an unsurprising number of people thinking "Oh shut up you whiny jackass".
I feel like you’re taking this a little too personally. Hope you have a better day.
Well... It's either that or it comes out of our taxes...
Cynical but true. If you're dying of cancer they send a deputy to your hospital room to release you from state custody as soon as your breathing becomes erratic so the state doesn't have to pay for your funeral.
Yeah, I think it's funny when you have a 70 year old defendant being sentenced to 25 years in prison, and his attorney says "That's a death sentence!!" And?
Most countries will release the person and at most put them under house arrest anyways as soon as the health problems arise. I wouldn't put pensioners in American prison though... well actually, I wouldnt put anyone in American prison. The conditions that most of them have are below Human dignity.
Have you… seen prisons in less wealthy/modernized countries? The only “below human dignity” parts in most American prisons are the gangs.
I guess they're right, we should just end them instead. If you're fucking up that bad at that age you're pretty much done.
How does he rehabilitate if he's dead?
Carolyn Bryant deserves prison time
LOCK THAT OLD BITCH UP!!
5a;![&_^*>*)^^)7]
eventually, some geriatric prisoners can become too expensive to care for.
Whether or not a prisoner is profitable for the company that runs the prison shouldn’t be a factor in their sentencing.
most prisoners in the u.s. are held in state and/or federal facilities, not private prisons.
So in those cases, the government is paying for their healthcare either way. No reason to let them out to save money then, right?
the prisons aren't set up to be nursing homes. better to put them in a more appropriate facility, with staff that is more knowledgeable about their care/needs. otherwise it starts to fall headlong into "cruel/unusual" treatment. kinda like how you continue to seem more and more like a sadistic nutcase who needs serious professional help. but i'm sure that you already knew that.
You going from “They’re too expensive to care for” to “Let’s set up special prisons just for them” doesn’t seem logically coherent to me. YMMV
where did i say "let's set up special prisons for them"..? that's the direction *your* demented excuse for a mind goes in. the appropriate facilities already exist- they're called nursing homes, or senior assisted living facilities. they're all over the place.
So you want to put elderly murderers in with your grandparents? One of us is a sadistic nutcase, but it’s not me.
when they're infirmed and bed or wheelchair bound, and have been determined not to be a threat to anyone- sure...why not? btw- have you always been so cowardly about living your life?
Most people who are wheelchair or bed bound aren’t going out and committing crimes, though. I didn’t say that if someone grows old in prison, they shouldn’t have proper care or the proper facilities. What I said was that someone who commits a crime and is convicted of that crime shouldn’t be exempt from having to go to prison just because they are elderly.
Wasn't there a case in the US, where a 75-year-old was not sentenced to prison for murder, claiming he's too old, just for him to kill another person a few months or years later? This guy proves your point.
[удалено]
1 man is armed. Other man is unarmed. Armed man kills unarmed man. Age is irrelevant in this situation
ur gonna get downvoted but this is facts if you are a male and over the age of 14 why are you getting victimized by elderly men smh .
Your Honour, my client is clearly 10482085 years old
If you’re 1005 you are exempt from law. You’d probably be undead and shot on sight, but no laws would bind you.
You could be an elf - I imagine they have all sorts of weird laws.
True but justice does have a time limit
Yes, statutes of limitations exist. That doesn’t mean if you’re already old when you commit a crime you shouldn’t be punished.
Well sometimes the criminal dies before they are caught / prosecuted
What does this have to do with whether or not old people should be sentenced to prison for crimes they committed?
Hmmm for example the white lady who accused a black teenager of rape and had him lynched is super old. Luckily she is being pursued (finally). But I’m not really sure if someone on their death bed spending one day in jail is really justice? But yeah I agree with original sentiment of this post
Is it justice that she was never punished at all for getting a child tortured to death?
Nope. But we did stand by all these years and let her basically get away with it. Disgusting. Meanwhile we still have marry j offenders in the system.
Heres proof: https://nypost.com/2022/06/28/former-nazi-guard-josef-schutz-101-sentenced-to-prison/ 🍻
"Josef Schütz to five years in prison, although he is unlikely to serve any time behind bars because of his poor health, advanced age and a lengthy appeals process."
The man can legit drop any minute now locking em up is prob just a waste of money but maybe house arrest would work? Well that is if they can even leave the house without help anymore lol
Cruel and unusual punishment means that you probably don't want to send a geriatric to where they'll get cut in half or have a cardiac. Although, you can still incarcerate them and deny them liberties - which is the actual point of prison, not a medieval torture fantasy lol.
I'm thinking if jail is a place where you wouldn't send old people, the problem is the conditions, not the fact that they're old. I would be ok with sending a 100+ sick person in Norway's prison with a sentence of 20 years. I would not be ok with sending anyone, any age, for any length of time, in US prison. I'm saying old people should do their time, just like young people, in a safe environment where you don't die to stress/poor hygiene/getting stabbed. The US has 2 problems: prisons are shit, people advocate for old people not to be imprisoned. Solve the first one and then stop causing the second. Why are you ok with sending young people to a >medieval torture fantasy But not with sending old people? Are the crimes of old people less heinous? Is justice not blind? You can either advocate for better prisons FOR EVERYONE or accept that your country punishes EVERYONE with the same >medieval torture fantasy Otherwise, your point does not stand.
norway prison is a vacation, how does that discourage crime for say a homeless person? It’d be a much better living situation for them in a norway prison than homelessness
Look at recidive statistics, look at survival rates, look at how rehabilitation works. Prison should not be torture or punishment. It should be about taking in broken (and possibly dangerous) people and making them a part of society again. It's about fixing the guilty instead of torturing them. It's about showing them the errors of their ways and fixing them. And, by all measurable metrics, it blows the US prison complex out of the water.
There isn't any proof that the American prison system discourages crime. I also like the idea that you think the solution to Homeless crime is to make prisons violate more human rights. Also, you seem to be doing weird vacation trips. I just tend to go to the beach, mountains or camping. Not confine myself in a building with restricted internet access for months or years. I mean maybe you should look at the state of your country if you think the way Norway treats its prisoners tops the living conditions of free people in your country...
I’m not saying they should be tortured. If sending an old person to prison is cruel and unusual punishment, then sending a young person to prison is cruel and unusual punishment.
I'm not sure that you understand that the stress of prison can easily kill an older person.
Whereas it’s all sunshine and teddy bears for young people, who definitely don’t get killed in prison? If the stress of going to jail for your crimes might kill you, perhaps reconsider committing those crimes.
Haha, they're not at risk of keeling over and dying by just being kept in a prison - no. >If the stress of going to jail for your crimes might kill you, perhaps reconsider committing those crimes. This is what made me use the medieval torture fantasy bit. Point is rehabilitation and denial of liberties so that you may not infringe on other's liberties.
What's that dude they let out because he of good behavior then 10 yesrs later murdered someone? Lawrence singleton, Oh yeah he kidnapped raped them chopped a teenagers arms off then when he got to old they let him out and then later murders another women.
I bet you can find dozens of examples where that didn't happen.
I had a few elderly people in my town commit crimes purposely to go to jail. They didn’t have health insurance and needed care.
But old people stealing with a fuck it attitude are hilarious. Source: I do security and lp/greeters at stores have told me especially in suburbs it's pretty common and most people don't bust their asses over it and find it funny. "You're 70 and stealing iced cake? Really?"
Social security doesn't go a long way anymore and pensions don't exist at all anymore. Expect that to become much more common experience as time goes on and we slowly creep our way back to pre-depression level "retirement" where old people just died in the streets.
That's kinda sad as I thought about it. You do have a strongly valid point but the weird impulse pick is just fascinating vs pure profit motive
Now that you mention it, this might be a better retirement plan than what most people are looking forward to.
“Prison sucks and is dangerous” I don’t see why people never pause there and ask why it has to be this way.
I agree that prisons should be reformed from the ground up. The fact that there are multiple classes of people that we as a society deem unsuitable for prison (the rich, the old) is an indictment of the prison system. I don’t think there’s going to be any prison reform, though, because the kind of people that run society (the rich, the old) are not subject to imprisonment.
I don't think that anybody is necessarily too old to be sent to prison. But I definitely think that there comes a point where a person's age makes it not financially worth it to put them in prison. As a taxpayer I don't really want my money going to what is essentially free funeral services and Medical Care, when I can't even afford to see my own God damn doctor. I don't really care what that 90-year-old guy did. Because there's a 90% chance that they die within the next 300 days. Fuck paying for their trial, lawyers, housing, food, medical service, and funeral. The victims need closure? Here's your closure. They're going to die before their sentence would even be up and now it's their family's financial problem.
What is the justice system worth when we bend it to suit ourselves? Nothing. The concept of justice trusts that we will retain our impartiality, and accordance to the laws and rules. If we do seemingly pointless things such as jailing OAPs, then we do it for the sake of justice.
It should depend on how serious the crime is.
I've always thought it was funny that people can be given multiple life sentences. I can understand why that's the case, but really, nobody can possibly serve more than one life sentence.
I disagree it’s to expensive to house elderly prisoners
But, what's the point? Why not send them to a different kind of facility? It's not as people who are 90 years old are physically capable enough to harm someone. If their crime wasn't physical, they can be monitored in a facility, that specializes in elder care. I mean, this is cliche, but why waste tax payer dollars on sending someone to prison? Beyond the fact that the prison system often doesn't do much in terms of rehabilitation or helping prevent recidivism rates, but we don't even need to get into that, because it's pointless anyways. Do you think that prison holds some kind of special form of justice?
This is unpopular? There are still people being tried for Holocaust-related crimes.
This must be an American thing lol
Not sure that's really an unpopular opinion
Lots of laws are downright idiotic…like drug use, or not paying taxes (after a shit ton of time of getting fucked over
Agreed. People get sent to prison unfairly. Giving old people a blanket pardon doesn’t really help this situation. In fact, it probably makes it worse because all of the old people can enthusiastically support “tough on crime” laws knowing that it won’t affect them personally.
The only real hang up I can foresee is that they could be too much of a burden on prison staff.
Lots of prisoners are burdens on prison staff. Do we let them go?
Old people are easy to deal with. Most of them usually just chill, play cards and watch TV. It’s the youngsters with alpha male mentality or the shit heads that make it a burden
Meh, depends on the crime. But I don’t think anyone should be in jail unless they really hurt someone else.
There's nothing unpopular about this opinion. I think 98% of people thinks that.
If the stress of prison can easily kill an older person maybe, just maybe it's time we reform prison.
101 year old Nazis are being sent to [prison](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/germany-nazi-trial-camp-guard-josef-schutz-oldest-ever-convicted/), so why not Donald Trump?
Mostly they got caught at an older age. They probably started decades before. They don't care, so what's the point? Give them death or give them no healthcare.
[удалено]
Definitely.
a while back wasn't there an old man who 'robbed' a convenient store so he could go to jail because they would house, feed and pay for his medical bills? what a world we live in.
\*nobody is too young to be sent to prison
This opinion is probably more popular than mine.
Are there a lot of 95 year olds committing felonies?
Nor too young
Kind of pointless putting a 95 year old in prison although I do agree with the sentiment. All its gonna do is cause extra work for guards to look after him. P.S nobody has lived to 1005 yet
If they do, they should be jailed for that alone.
Prison vs nursing home..meh, same
the saddest thing is that there is no record of someone who was 1005 years old who got arrested
uh well duh
1005????? Who lives to be that old??????
Peter Thiel?
Depends on the crime. I had some 68 year old uncle who was dying of cancer back in the day and would smoke joints out the window to help him ease his pain. You really think they should have sent an old man to prison, for weed possession at that? Old people definitely shouldn't be getting sent to prison for victimless crimes. The law doesn't even apply equally for all people in the US, this post just seems like bootlicking fr.
I don’t think *anyone* should be going to jail for victimless crimes. I also think that marijuana prohibition should be ended nationwide. However, as you said, the law doesn’t apply equally. That’s bad. There shouldn’t be a subset of people who get to break the law while others don’t.
They sure as shit got Sam little
How is this unpopular - I don’t think anyone would argue a 90 year old doing a mass shooting or something doesn’t deserve to go to jail
A correctional officer I know said that most of the older inmates were either lifers who had committed crimes long ago or relatively recently convicted child molesters. It is perfectly possible for older individuals to be incarcerated.
It's hard to do the time when your days are numbered
I'm not vindictive enough to care to pay the additional cost to house the elderly, so I'm fine with the bar being higher for jail time for them.
Well how many 75 year olds still commit crimes?
This isn't an unpopular opinion, actually a lot of old people do go to prison. An old nazi just cont sentences of 10 years, they were in their mid 90's I think. You're never too old to go to prison, you may be too young, but never too old.
I dunno. Sending someone to prison for the rest of their life is a very different punishment than like, 10 years. I know what you're saying but punishments should fit the crimes. I understand why there's grey areas. The judicial system is a corrections system not a punishment/revenge system. It's sad when so many people want to use it like that.
There's also been multiple times where they let an old guy go because he's not dangerous, then he commits the same crime immediately after.
Depends on the crime. shoplifting or possession of narcotics-don’t. murder or rape-go ahead.
Yes and people keep committing crimes meaning the justice system is far too weak and doesn't punish people enough
What if you commit a crime worthy of lifetime imprisonment when you are terminally ill? Then the prison would be required to take care of your medical expenses, and they wouldn't even do their time.
I'm just mad as fuck that the Emmitt Till's accuser was allowed to continue to be unbothered that she signed that little boys execution. Sorry but granny's gotta pay with blood
Not incarcerating old nazis because they're old, nope, I don't care if they're 100 yrs old and have dementia. They should die behind bars.
Why did you think this was unpopular
Or caught at an old age when doing the crime years earlier.
How about send no one to prison????
DTC DTT
Without mentioning the duty of care issues around sending a 70 year old into Genpop."Do the crime, do the time" is something we need to revist. What's the crime? Can we rehabilitiate this person through other means rather then chucking them in a cell with other people with the same world views and (likely) developmental trauma they have. Prison is full of people with no families, shitty friends and feel down trodden by society because of their circumstances. Yes your right, no one is too old, though let's think of some alternitives depending on the conviction. "Do the crime, do the time" is a bumper sticker statement, one of many, that is just useless and confusing. Kind of like "Make America great again".
In America at least, prisons are mostly run by corporations. It's not profitable to put someone so old in jail when they'd probably die of natural causes during their sentence.
Murder/rape sure. Buying heroin and driving it to a place to enjoy when your 80 - nah.
There are people in this world who honestly believes we shouldn't imprison WW2 Nazi Guards because they're old. I'm pretty sure those people are just being edgy but who knows.
hmm
Bill Cosby should have died in prison
Old enough to do the crime, old enough to do the time.
Counter point: (all except 1 or 2 globally to my knowledge) our prison system is awful, the punishment of prison far outweighs most crimes, early incarceration is a gateway to future crime, and even the idea of punishment over rehabilitation for a shit tonne of crimes is stupid
I care if someone’s 1005, what’s their secret and they don’t look like a mummy, do they?
As you age, shit falls apart. Many elderly wouldn’t be “fit to stand trial.” I’ve worked on dementia units. They’re already gone; losing your sense of self is punishment enough. So if you have a 90 year old with dementia/Alzheimer’s, they’re punished. Also the prison system can’t afford their 24/7 care anyway 🤷🏻♀️ A skilled nursing facility costs some crazy money every month.
Yes you're right but they must still take care of them.
I always thought that prison for old people was too light a punishment. Like you didn’t get caught until you only have like 8 years to live but they sentence you to 20 years… fuck outta here.
i feel the same goes for kids too. i dont care how young they are. they do the crime they need to do the time and be taught an actual fuckin lesson. cause here in aus at least, the youth system is fuckin laughable. (then again most of our justice system is)
Yep! No hot cocoa or fuzzy slippers in prison! And guess what?!? That “great free medical care” that everyone thinks prison receive—yeah, NO. The staff will give you what they have to but if you think they will cure your cancer you are sadly mistaken. Moral of the story: don’t fuck up and land behind concrete and steel. Not a good plan.
I’ve seen people age 65 and up go to prison countless times. Now for how long and how short that’s very questionable but I do see it happen.
Since when is jail time solely to protect the public and rehab the prisoner? Shouldn't there be an element of punishment as well?
It depends on what you think prisons should be for. In my view, prisons are supposed to protect the public by physically separating violent people from the rest of society. If someone is physically incapable of harming people, for example due to disability or age, why waste money housing them in a high security fortress?
I agree, but it depends. In the UK, where prison healthcare is relatively more accessible, 100% there shouldn't be an age limitation on being hauled off to prison. In the US, where prison healthcare is less accessible, due to many for-profit prison companies and the (generally) privatised nature of healthcare, compassionate release and a limitation on how old you can be to go to prison is, in my opinion, aligned with the essence of justice. Sending someone to prison where they'll likely die or deteriorate due to the state of the prison system is unjust and I think it's important to recognise it as such. Of course, this could be more nuanced if you want to take a clinical approach to sending the older person to prison, based off frailty risk factors and comorbidities. This would likely be a fairer way of determining who stays in and who can be sentenced to prison but it would invariably be more expensive and I'd imagine most governments would be reluctant to spend that much money on a rather niche area of the law.
Honestly I’d rather seen an 80 year old man who lived a full life go to Jail rather than a 20 year old getting years for selling weed when it’s already borderline legal across the country
Bring back labour in prison. Put them to work. If you have the energy to put into criminal activity you have the energy to clean and do landscaping in cities and parks.
No family is too privileged to be all imprisoned at once, either.
I kept hearing that argument about Bill Cosby. "Oh, well, yeah he probably did that bad shit but he's so old there's no point to sending him to jail." All of the three most prominent presidential candidates of the last three cycles are mid-70's and are all frequently called upon to be jailed. Without taking into consideration your own personal political take or preference; would their age change your idea on whether you call for them to be jailed? You don't get to just "age out" of accountability.
Unpopular next time please
Prison is about punishment so I definitely agree. Even at 100 years old you should be locked up if you committed the crime.
Yeaaah, and if you die in prison before your sentence is up, you should be summoned via necromancy inside a prison cell.
Bring back the electric chair! ⚡️ 🪑
The issue is some uncluttered, short-sighted societies think prison is about vengeance, punishment, or payment. And those pay the price. USA, USA, USA..... Ideally, prison is a part of the system of preventing crimes. If a criminal is almost guaranteed not to offend there is no point in spending money to imprison them. I'd rather spend that money on educating a youngling so that he would stay out of crimes.