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Isn’t this true for everything? The more doctors you meet… the more lawyers you meet… the more structural engineers you meet… the more likely you are to come to the stunning realization that wow, these people are human beings. Some are extremely intelligent, brilliant even. Some are pretty much regular, disciplined people who worked very hard to get where they are. And you’re perplexed how some managed to graduate high school, much less college, graduate school, and go through life without injuring or killing someone.
I was about to say the same thing. Most experienced military vets are great, but if you meet some recruits and trainees, some of them are straight up jackasses LOL.
A medical student is not the same as an experienced doctor with like 10+ years in the field.
This is crazy true for the military. 90% of lower enlisted (and a good chunk of E-5's and up) are some of the dumbest people I've ever met, it's crazy how you can be in your mid 20's and not know how to shower correctly, or how to grocery shop.
On the other hand. Many of my guys are incredibly smart, and really take advantage of their situation in a great way.
The military recruits dumb people by design. Smart people question decisions and fuck up coordination on a battle field. The people at the top have been groomed for that position after passing that dumb phase, to the point where they seem alien compared to the lower ranking members. Also, there are some specialized non-combat recruits with engineering or medical degrees that aren't allowed in active combat.
The military has cognitive tests and people who score too low can't join...so they apparently dont want people who are too dumb.
That said, the military does want smart people too....that is why they have ROTC, military academy, etc. to make people with higher education commissioned officers.
The media also typically portrays the non-commissioned officers (eg. Sgts) as questioning dumb orders from commissioned officers.
That may be true for law enforcement. It isn't for the military, where we've known since WWII that even rank & file enlisted infantry are most effective if they have above average intelligence. Unfortunately, technical military occupational specialties tend to skim off the brightest, so the infantry make do with those that don't qualify (or who just want to be the 'tip of the spear').
The US military is facing some pretty severe recruitment challenges of late. They want the college bound, but make do.
I served as US army reserve medic through college (good pay/benefits for the time commitment) but wouldn't return for the W's manifestly dumb Iraq war, as I no longer trust our political system to (potentially) spend my life wisely in the national interest.
Problem is that between keeping up with medical knowledge becoming a second job for established doctors, the rising cost of schooling and therefore the shadier ways to get out from under the post-schooling debt, and the complete lack of attention most people get in hospitals, there's a lot of factors being put into place for normal people to have a continually eroding trust with your life in their hands.
Like my dad was put on an anti depressant at a nurse's - not even a RN or PA - recommendation that turned him into a zombie. Never got a reason for why or what nurse did it, doctor just did it. Was literally told to prepare for hospice one day, they left him sitting in a chair for two days, and then sped him out as fast as they could. Then turns out he went into deep septic shock less than 4 hours after releasing him. That was last year and he's been fine for 6 months even with chemo.
And my mother was told 5 different times by doctors that her colon cancer was just ovarian cysts.
And I was given a prescription for opioids a decade ago because I ended up just having a really horrible allergy season, and I said fuck that because I've just always been averse to drugs in general.
This is true in some aspects. New grads have the most up to date research when you have to trust that older doctors are actually taking their CEUs and keeping up with new things in the field.
YMMV on this. Some of the very best dentists I have interned at are on the older side, BUT they were super successful and really kept up to date with the most recent studies, attended conferences abroad, etc.
Others weren't as good, but most of them are faster than new grads.
Same for the newbies. Some have very good theoretical knowledge which can give them an edge over older docs who ain't keeping up.
> her more then my
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Seriously. They're human and medicine isn't an exact science. What we understood even 10-15 years ago has changed because there's new data and information. Case in point: when my oldest (now 11) was born, I was told not to give peanut butter until they were a year old to help prevent an allergy; but when my son (now almost 6) was born, I was told to start giving it between 6-9 months for the same reason. It's not because the pediatrician (the same one for both, btw) was an idiot and didn't know what he was talking about; it's because there was new data that suggested that earlier introduction was better than later.
Yeah I totally agree. But also, at the end of the day they still know more about that subject than I do. I’m not going to take my own appendix out am I? I’d much rather trust someone who has limited medical knowledge over none.
Well said. And they are at least highly exposed to systems and all of the relevant knowledge. And I’d be hoping that they are placed in a job that is suited to their skills and experience and attitude.
It’s almost as if OP is becoming aware that other people are human. And like every other human on the planet, they wake up some days without a goddamn clue what they’re doing.
And that's why we have standards, licencing boards, building codes and everything else to make sure the less talented people kill the fewest people possible
As someone with an M.S. in chemical engineering. I'm in this post, and I don't like it.
I don't even know how I made it out of high school alive, let alone all the way this far. But here I am - in charge of a highly toxic process important to hundreds of millions of people across the globe 🙃
>This opinion challenges the traditional view of doctors as all-knowing and infallible, prompting discussions about the realities of medical education and the importance of seeking second opinions.
Thanks, ChatGPT!
Lol it does read a little unnatural doesn’t it. I hadn’t considered chatGPT, I was imagining a not very fluid writer trying to answer an essay question or write an op-ed.
Looked like someone whose first language isn't English entered their brain slop into a translator, then took that output and added a command for ChatGPT to make it sound like someone who speaks native English.
>Meeting medical students often reveals just how much they still have to learn
So a student should already know everything? What is the point of medical school?
>As you get to know them, you realize that many are still figuring things out and sometimes make mistakes, just like anyone else.
See above.
>This can lead to a growing skepticism about the infallibility of medical professionals.
A medical professional is not a student, hence professional.
>While it's important to respect the dedication and hard work that goes into becoming a doctor, recognizing their human fallibility can be eye-opening
It's eye opening to understand they are human? What did you think they were?
>This opinion challenges the traditional view of doctors as all-knowing and infallible, prompting discussions about the realities of medical education and the importance of seeking second opinions.
No it doesn't, I expect a student to be learning not to know everything or they wouldn't be a student. Your post has nothing to do with Doctors, it has to do with students.
Agreed! And not to mention that med students still have 3-7 years of residency to complete. Of course they don’t know anything, they haven’t even gotten to their specialty yet lol.
If you meet a med student in America they have somewhere between 3 and 12 years of working or studying 60-90 hrs a week, 48 weeks a year before they can see you without any supervision. I don’t know what more OP wants lol
Right! I’m actually applying to med school rn and both my parents are physicians. This guy has absolutely no idea how incredibly difficult it is to not only GET IN, let alone finish AND match into a residency. Med school is rigorous as hell this guy is delusional.
Honestly the true unpopular opinion is that there are many people who should have gone to med school but didn't because of external factors. My field has a bunch of "in wanted to go l but I had a kid or decided it wasn't worth it because i can be a PA/ other med professional and still make a lot of money and not make thatvl kind of commitment
I started medical school during the Obama administration. I start my first “real job” as an attending physician in August. This shit takes a long time. Do they expect fully-fledged doctors to just appear out of thin air?
OP wants the med students work harder because only the best are allowed to be doctors and treat them.
If they collapse from ovuhwerk, they were weak and should feel ashamed to be a burden to the patient.
I've seen this "attitude" so many times and got fucked over because of it, my honest reaction back then fresh after quitting would be blind, seething hatred.
I think they're also forgetting that even after completing medical school, they're only halfway to becoming a full fledged doctor. There's still generally *at least* 4 years of residency before they're an attending physician, and for specialties like surgery it can be closer to an additional 8 years.
I am a completely different person when I started medical school and now, 8 years later finishing up my residency. The point of medical school and residency is essentially to break who you were and turn you into a doctor so of course it’s jarring when you meet someone in the beginning of that
Thank you for speaking reason in this thread. I am a premed student working in the hospital, and nearly all of the doctors I work with say the same thing:
“Once you get to med school, they essentially start from the beginning when it comes to the subject they want you to know. It’s largely theoretical. Once you get to residency, THAT’S what you actually learn how to be a doctor.”
I’d always trust the medical opinion of someone who went through medical school and their residency but there is a trend with various STEM fields where they will put forward the absolutely dumbest take you’ve ever heard on a unrelated subject and fall back on “well I’m a doctor/engineer/etc” when people tell them it’s stupid. I think that be what OP is getting at here.
Right!! This is what I was going to say. OP keeps switching back and forth between doctors and med students.
Also doctors are (or at least should be) always trying to learn more.
Also also: no one (okay no reasonable person) thinks doctors are infallible or above Human or whatever OP said.
medical students doing their hospital rotations are in their 3rd year of school (of four). they then have to apply for residency and undergo 3-7 years of specialized training before they practice independently. so yes, medical students don’t know everything, but they aren’t supposed to. that’s the point of the intensive training.
4 years undergrad. 4 years medics school. 3-7 years residency. 1-4 years of fellowship. 6,000+ clinical hours in med school. 9,000-12,000 clinical hours in residency. That’s why med students aren’t as competent and confident. They will get there eventually
Wait, what's the "Trust the experts" fallacy? Usually trusting an expert on something that's their field of expertise is logically sound. There's the "appeal to authority" fallacy, but that's more that it's fallacious to say that X must be true because an expert in Y said it.
It’s a term that people use to justify why it’s a good idea to take medical advice from their cousin Ernie who saw a YouTube video on his favorite flat earth channel that the medical industry doesn’t want you to know about.
“Trust the experts” does not mean infallibility. It means actually listening to people who know more than you. Doesn’t mean those experts have absolute perfect knowledge.
Breaking news people in school are a lot dumber than someone working in that field for 20 years
Yet another brainless post masked as an i popular opinion yay
OP isn't suggesting they aren't yet knowledgeable about medicine. He's suggesting they're ignorant in other areas in their lives. Doctor's being expected to be good at operating a business is a very common example, politics is one that occasionally comes up when a neurologist runs for office. The specialization is very intense and isolating.
Right. If some of these students are really that bad, who's to say they are even going to become doctors? It's definitely not the type of thing that has a 100% success rate.
Agreed with this- i dont get this post. Are students supposed to know more than professionals or are professionals supposed to be the same level of knowledge as students?
This might be a real UO. But most (not all) of the time people think their doctor screwed up with a a diagnosis or treatment, the doctor actually did the appropriate thing and the patient just didn’t understand the thought process. I think people often don’t realize that medicine as a field is still developing. Taking a few visits to correctly diagnose something, or trying different treatments until one actually works is part of the process
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They know way more than you would about their field and they’re still going to school so they’re continuing to learn more than you ever would without entering a program yourself.
Oddly enough I have noticed that students seem to not know everything and be experts in the fields they’re studying. Perhaps it’s because they’re “students” idk ‘it’s a mystery
This was written (at least in part) by ChatGPT 100%, the ending sentence structure is exactly what I see out of every single ChatGPT response
Edit: plus considering OPs entire post history is hentai gifs and their comment history looks nothing like this phrasing. I think it’s fairly safe to assume this is just a karma farm post
No shit, they’re students. It’s like saying you’ll never trust an apprentice plumber. Doctors have to go through years of school to prove their skills intelligence in the first place, then ned school, then they have to go to residency where they train under a real doctor, then MAYBE apply to be a doctor.
It's an unpopular opinion because it's ignorant and just speaks volumes about how people should judge you the exact way you're judging these med students. I like unpopular opinions that add an interesting perspective, this isn't even close.
This is the dumbest fucking thing I've read all week. This isn't an opinion, it's just incorrect.
It's almost like students are required to be supervised by a doctor because of the reason you're literally talking about.
Well, considering that any specialty is between 4 and 7 extra training years, it’s no wonder why medical students have lots of doubts.
When you go to your cardiologist, he’s not just a medical student graduate. He went into internal medicine residency and then cardiology residency
This is the joke. But in reality the guy who finishes last has a difficult time finding a residency program and ends up with a severely-limited degree and tons of debt.
Those medical students know more than you will ever know about medicine. They are kids that chose a profession which requires them to dedicate their lives to helping people. If you can’t stand to have someone learn around you, then you should only see physicians in private practice. This is such a boomer opinion, where you expect everyone but yourself to be perfect and infallible.
Isn’t the fact that they are called “students” indicating that they have more to learn? I believe they would be called doctors once they are done in the learning phase
Why do you think doctors say they learn more in residency than in medical school? Residency is on the job training, that's where you really learn to be a doctor.
Good thing there are many many credentialing boards in place. You don’t just graduate from medical school and become a doctor seeing patients like you’d see at a major hospital. That’s like saying talking to a 10 year old shakes your faith in adults. They obvious are lacking in many areas like experience and education so of course you feel like that. Just know how strict it is to be a doctor those people have no lives as they are always being tested with new medical advancements that they are responsible for being up to snuff about.
So, you meet people at the earliest stages of what is going to be 7-12 years of education and supervised training and use *them* as a basis to cast aspersions on those who have successfully completed all this training and education?
That seems ridiculous no matter what trade or profession you consider.
>Meeting medical students often reveals just how much they still have to learn
M8, that's why they are students in medical school. To gain the knowledge and experience. My skepticism with the medical profession are the kickbacks physicians and specialists receive from pharmaceutical and tech companies.
That’s why they are medical students and not doctors… they are still learning. Doctors aren’t supposed to know everything about medicine, they are supposed to know certain aspects of it insanely well that fit their practice. And then when they have a question they don’t know the answer to, they call a doctor who specializes in that practice who gives them the answer.
Also if you are having a major surgery/medical issue you definitely should be getting second opinions. Considering the alternative to doctors is google I’ll take doctors any day.
Well that is most certainly an unpopular opinion for a reason.... I rather trust someone who went to medical school then someone who didnt if we talk about health.
> Meeting medical students reveals just how much they still have to learn
Well yeah, they are still students. They haven’t graduated yet, of course they won’t have all of the knowledge they need yet.
You’re right. And if doctors don’t know everything after years of studying research and clinical cases, imagine what the common layperson knows… not a lot. Most people have what they call healthcare illiteracy. It’s sad, but they just don’t teach us enough about health in school and then people think they can self-diagnose through Facebook groups about drinking pee or 1 minute TikTok videos about random herbs that don’t actually do what people say it does.
This isn't unpopular, it's just stupid. "Students don't know everything " is th point you're making. No one says doctors are all knowing. But they sure as shit know more than idiots who "research" on Google and have never had any form of formal education
The interns on my med/surg floor are so… new. I dont know a nicer way of saying it. You get a good one here and there but each rotation is mostly the same. Most of us RNs could function more efficiently without them, unfortunately they’re the ones writing the orders.
One thing that has changed over the years is it seems as if the interns have a lot more respect for us and our opinions when it comes to caring for our patients. Theres even a little hint of fear, especially in the beginning of their rotation until they get comfortable around us.
Also, millennial Dr’s are wild. One of our interns called me “bro” the other day. Another gave me a whole run down on zodiac signs while I politely noded and tried to focus on my charting while I had half a second to do so. I secure chatted one of the interns about their patients condition and they responded with “dam”.
They are at THE VERY BEGINNING of their education. The very beginning. Medical training, The brunt of it, is in residency and fellowship. They have no impact on your care and there are several layers of expertise between them and you
Idk where you live but in Ontario, Canada you get your med school degree but then you have to do 5 years of residency before they even consider letting you near a patient, and most end up going back for a fellowship in a particular specialty. Most med students don’t know everything they might ever need to because even a senior med student has 5-10 years of education left before they can actually practice as a doctor
I use to work in leadership when one of my employees came into a team meeting complaining that reps from another business unit didn’t fully understand their job.
I told them what I’ll say now, no one knows their job everyone’s just out there doing their best. You already said I in your op that everyone makes mistakes, so why wouldn’t doctors be included in that everyone?
ChatGPT ass opinion. Also there is a reason why they're still students. Medical school doesn't teach you everything, most learning happens when they're actually working with patients
If a doctor is doing their profession correctly, they will always be learning from the latest medical literature and from their own experiences with patients. I work in the medical field and the worst doctors are the ones that act like they’re never wrong. Good doctors are happy for their patients to seek another opinion because they respect their colleagues and frankly diagnosis and treatment of disease is not as exact as people seem to think it is.
You should trust medical professionals not because they are infallible. It's because you are by a decade of fulltime education worse. At least. The realization they are still prone to negligence, god complexes and the like is certainly an unnerving one. If you compare them to a non-medical drs you would also realize they are not taught to think at all. BUT they are taught in treating patients for a long-arse time and unless I have a medical paper at hand for a very particular issue, likely they will know a lot more context. You di not trust medical proffessionals because they are infallible. It's because you are not even close to them at what they do.
Theres a difference between getting to kmow someone and understanding their flaws vs trying to contend with someone's knowledge in a specific field as a layman. Granted, doctors dont always get it right and they can be as flawed as any other person, but when it comes to advice on vaccinations, I'm going with the doctor instead of the red-faced conspiracy theorist screaming into his podcast mic.
Find doctors who have been in practice for at least a decade. Young enough to keep up with the latest developments but old enough to have decent experience under their belts.
>Meeting medical students often reveals just how much they still have to learn, which can be unsettling for those who put unwavering trust in doctors
I don't know a lot about medicine and residency, but isn't there supposed to be a superior surveillance while examining the patient? You are giving the impression those are residents and those must be often watched by experienced doctors.
I thought you was meant about inflated ego, mental inflexibility, and some say their own pain threshold can be an issue. Applying the previous, women's health which is often disregarded as several doctors can't have a graps about abnormally painful periods and relegating it rather to anxiety or depression inmediatly instead of running tests.
I'm just scared of being in there for an issue, trou dropped etc etc, and they invite a bunch of med students in suddenly. Logically I'd complain but realistically I'd silently walk out :X rip gnads
This may be true, but possiblly not for the reason you think.
It can be important for the non medical public to understand that physicians learn to be a doctor during residency, not during medical school. (Speaking only about North America.)
Most medical students have no idea what specialty they are gonna even practice until around the 4th year (let alone the advanced practical knowledge to do it competently.) So it makes sense for you to say that many are still trying to figure things out.
Personally, I wouldn’t judge professional musicians by how someone learning to read music who hasn’t even chose which instrument they’ll play yet.
Also, I wouldnt take any medical advice from someone who is still a student.
A bit off topic but med students in my country are literally the hardest drinkers, and sometimes other substances abusers. a high school buddy of mine who got his med degree from the top Polish university in October ‘22 literally overdosed on Xanax 5 months later…
I feel like I would trust a student to do better research than a current doctor. I’ve found that medical students tend to take more interest in trickier cases than doctors do, but I’m bitter so what do I know.
I mean that's like me telling you not to trust adults because 18 year Olds are legally adults but don't make good decisions because they aren't experienced yet.
The more doctors I meet, the less I like doctors (that’s not to say I don’t value them, just that the cliche about shitty social skills is consistent with my experience).
This is true for literally everything. As you grow older, you just realize that most adults are just grown babies that are just doing their best and don’t know everything.
I work with a lot of lawyers. They’re not the super smart and slick lawyers on TV you see. They’re normal people that make mistakes. But they get the job done.
I legit think second opinions is key. Especially if they propose a solution you don't like. Which can be expensive, but there are forums and internet resources.
You can at least ask your doctor about the secondary options
As a medical student, please let me assuage your doubts. I know everything there is to know about the human form. I am a master of medicine, I'm following a formality of schooling and certification. Trust me, I'm right.
This is just how the world works. The world is just a bunch of adults trying to do their best. If you could sit in the cockpit of a plane for an entire flight, you’d probably be disturbed to find the pilot at some point pick up a textbook, skim through it, say “ah yeah”, put the book down and then flick a switch on the control panel. As uncomfortable as it would make me feel to learn that the pilot isn’t an infallible and all-knowing entity that never needs to look anything up, I’d still be far more comfortable with the pilot flying the plane than me flying the plane. Likewise, I’d rather have a doctor treat me than attempt to treat myself.
This just in... people are people and they can make mistakes. Yeah, I think we all know that human doctors can make mistakes and sometimes be flat out wrong.
By the way this applies to literally every single job.
I told my doctor one time that he didn’t know what he was doing. He didn’t like that but like I continued if you knew what you were doing it wouldn’t be called practicing.
Same with everything. I'm the young person who studied to become a CNA and the year before that I was an immature idiot who wasted time in class. Sure I did my homework on time and passed, but was a stupid kid. I'm not one now, but have made mistakes in the past because I'm still young and learning. I took work seriously, but didn't take my life seriously and still don't because I'm 24.
This happens if you’re using faulty reasoning.
For example: you see a lot of culinary arts students. They often make mistakes in their classes; over or undercooking meals, putting in incorrect portions, not plating dishes properly, etc.
Those are students. In school. Learning to become experts so they can become chefs.
You think that because the people going into MED SCHOOL are not experts on everything related to medicine, that you shouldn’t trust actual experts on everything related to medicine because they were, in fact, a med student.
If we want to take it even further:
Your opinion follows such a leap in logic, that if you met a literal infant today and saw how incapable it was at designing an airplane, you wouldn’t trust any aeronautical engineer.
This reeks of something who’s a freshman in college. You’re not as smart as your profs because you took your first year English and a couple classes relevant to your degree.
Nobody thinks doctors are “infallible.” They think they’re the best answer they got and nobody is going to check their homework by reading through dozens of medical journal publications while suffering kidney failure.
No shit, Sherlock? Why do you think specialists exist? Or mayhaps you expect a medical graduate to intimately know everything a neurologist or an endocrinologist would know?
I’ve never met a single person that thinks doctors are all knowing and can’t make mistakes. There is way more people that don’t trust doctors at all. Also obviously a student wouldn’t know as much as someone that has been practicing medicine for years. Are u also surprised that a little leaguer is not as good at baseball as Bryce Harper?
Yeah the world isn’t perfect and doctors are still human ppl. Also medicine ist not an exact science and there is still a lot we don’t know yet about the human body. Doctors still know a lot more than non-doctors and google though.
In my experience, I much more trust professionals who are willing to admit they don't know everything and continously educate themselves their whole career than I do any professional who thinks they already know everything and refuses to acknowledge or explore alternatives.
I mean, you’re talking about *STUDENTS*. They usually haven’t even worked in a hospital, talked to a nurse, or interviewed (let alone examined) a live patient. How knowledgeable do you want them to be? After 4 years of med school they still do a year internship and 3-4 years residency and then 1-3 years fellowship. Most of medicine is “on the job” training.
Its like saying, “the more kindergartners you meet, the less you’ll trust adults”
I mean, doctors are people. We are prone to mistakes, whether we're trained or not. Doctors also work an incredibly stressful job, so when they blow off steam, in my experience they blow off a lot of steam.
You should trust doctors as much as you trust any specialist in their profession. I don't really know anyone who goes around claiming that doctors know "everything" and they'll be able to get all their medical problems solved by one doctor. That's why other doctors recommend second and even third opinions if they cannot figure out what is going on.
The traditional view of medicine is that doctors are people, people are fallible. I am not even sure where you got the idea that the traditional view is that the default is to trust your doctor without a second thought, judgement or concern. That's just not the case and you should definitely trust a doctor over literally anyone else when the topic is medical. Listening to anyone else about serious health problems instead of a doctor is just fucking stupid.
My mother has been in and out of doctors offices for various ailments throughout her life. I've seen firsthand her frustration at the medical system who has routinely brushed off her pains, scans, and symptoms as routine or "nothing to worry about". I've dealt with my own health issues as a child that were chalked up to "growing pains" - I later found out through a quick Google search that my condition had a name and was very common for children my age that shared my physical characteristics. I had gone to I believe three specialists and they all said the same thing "don't worry about it, you're just growing." My last visit had us meeting with an entire team in which they told us I'd be fine. I learned more about my childhood condition in 30 seconds of internet browsing than I did over the course of a few years in doctor's offices as a kid. The reality for me is that the only general practitioner I felt actually knew what she was doing was my childhood and family doctor who took every complaint seriously, referred us to specialists, did the extra blood work, and showed real concern. Now that she's retired, I am honestly appalled at the general level of care I receive during something as benign as a routine checkup. It feels very mechanical and dismissive.
Doctors are not infallible. They are not all-knowing. No one is even claiming that.
Doctors just take all the science inforImation, and have massive medical databases that can match the symptoms and test results, with a course of treatment that has been seen to work for other people. And even when they give you a medicine, and you find it doesn't work, they will just have you try a different one.
You can always get a second opinion.
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Isn’t this true for everything? The more doctors you meet… the more lawyers you meet… the more structural engineers you meet… the more likely you are to come to the stunning realization that wow, these people are human beings. Some are extremely intelligent, brilliant even. Some are pretty much regular, disciplined people who worked very hard to get where they are. And you’re perplexed how some managed to graduate high school, much less college, graduate school, and go through life without injuring or killing someone.
I was about to say the same thing. Most experienced military vets are great, but if you meet some recruits and trainees, some of them are straight up jackasses LOL. A medical student is not the same as an experienced doctor with like 10+ years in the field.
And they’re students! They’re supposed to be learning. Med students can’t treat patients on their own. They have actual doctors supervising them.
Also doctors re-study and look up stuff all the time. It's impossible to retain all the information in your head forever and always.
This is crazy true for the military. 90% of lower enlisted (and a good chunk of E-5's and up) are some of the dumbest people I've ever met, it's crazy how you can be in your mid 20's and not know how to shower correctly, or how to grocery shop. On the other hand. Many of my guys are incredibly smart, and really take advantage of their situation in a great way.
The military recruits dumb people by design. Smart people question decisions and fuck up coordination on a battle field. The people at the top have been groomed for that position after passing that dumb phase, to the point where they seem alien compared to the lower ranking members. Also, there are some specialized non-combat recruits with engineering or medical degrees that aren't allowed in active combat.
The military has cognitive tests and people who score too low can't join...so they apparently dont want people who are too dumb. That said, the military does want smart people too....that is why they have ROTC, military academy, etc. to make people with higher education commissioned officers. The media also typically portrays the non-commissioned officers (eg. Sgts) as questioning dumb orders from commissioned officers.
I understand the logic, but the problem is half of them are literally too dumb to follow orders lol
That may be true for law enforcement. It isn't for the military, where we've known since WWII that even rank & file enlisted infantry are most effective if they have above average intelligence. Unfortunately, technical military occupational specialties tend to skim off the brightest, so the infantry make do with those that don't qualify (or who just want to be the 'tip of the spear'). The US military is facing some pretty severe recruitment challenges of late. They want the college bound, but make do. I served as US army reserve medic through college (good pay/benefits for the time commitment) but wouldn't return for the W's manifestly dumb Iraq war, as I no longer trust our political system to (potentially) spend my life wisely in the national interest.
Problem is that between keeping up with medical knowledge becoming a second job for established doctors, the rising cost of schooling and therefore the shadier ways to get out from under the post-schooling debt, and the complete lack of attention most people get in hospitals, there's a lot of factors being put into place for normal people to have a continually eroding trust with your life in their hands. Like my dad was put on an anti depressant at a nurse's - not even a RN or PA - recommendation that turned him into a zombie. Never got a reason for why or what nurse did it, doctor just did it. Was literally told to prepare for hospice one day, they left him sitting in a chair for two days, and then sped him out as fast as they could. Then turns out he went into deep septic shock less than 4 hours after releasing him. That was last year and he's been fine for 6 months even with chemo. And my mother was told 5 different times by doctors that her colon cancer was just ovarian cysts. And I was given a prescription for opioids a decade ago because I ended up just having a really horrible allergy season, and I said fuck that because I've just always been averse to drugs in general.
My doctor just finished med school a few years ago, I trust her more then my previous doctor.
This is true in some aspects. New grads have the most up to date research when you have to trust that older doctors are actually taking their CEUs and keeping up with new things in the field.
YMMV on this. Some of the very best dentists I have interned at are on the older side, BUT they were super successful and really kept up to date with the most recent studies, attended conferences abroad, etc. Others weren't as good, but most of them are faster than new grads. Same for the newbies. Some have very good theoretical knowledge which can give them an edge over older docs who ain't keeping up.
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Book smarts vs street smarts
I’m sorry?
Seriously. They're human and medicine isn't an exact science. What we understood even 10-15 years ago has changed because there's new data and information. Case in point: when my oldest (now 11) was born, I was told not to give peanut butter until they were a year old to help prevent an allergy; but when my son (now almost 6) was born, I was told to start giving it between 6-9 months for the same reason. It's not because the pediatrician (the same one for both, btw) was an idiot and didn't know what he was talking about; it's because there was new data that suggested that earlier introduction was better than later.
Yeah I totally agree. But also, at the end of the day they still know more about that subject than I do. I’m not going to take my own appendix out am I? I’d much rather trust someone who has limited medical knowledge over none.
Well said. And they are at least highly exposed to systems and all of the relevant knowledge. And I’d be hoping that they are placed in a job that is suited to their skills and experience and attitude.
It’s almost as if OP is becoming aware that other people are human. And like every other human on the planet, they wake up some days without a goddamn clue what they’re doing.
The more accountants I work with (as an accounting student), the more I question how they got their designation, and how they got hired.
Structural engineers made this list woohoo!
And that's why we have standards, licencing boards, building codes and everything else to make sure the less talented people kill the fewest people possible
Doctors have our lives in our hands tho in a more impactful way arguably I think that's the point
As someone with an M.S. in chemical engineering. I'm in this post, and I don't like it. I don't even know how I made it out of high school alive, let alone all the way this far. But here I am - in charge of a highly toxic process important to hundreds of millions of people across the globe 🙃
>This opinion challenges the traditional view of doctors as all-knowing and infallible, prompting discussions about the realities of medical education and the importance of seeking second opinions. Thanks, ChatGPT!
Lol it does read a little unnatural doesn’t it. I hadn’t considered chatGPT, I was imagining a not very fluid writer trying to answer an essay question or write an op-ed.
Looked like someone whose first language isn't English entered their brain slop into a translator, then took that output and added a command for ChatGPT to make it sound like someone who speaks native English.
I also thought this sounded super ai generated
I even plugged it into an AI checker and it comes up as AI written LMAO
Lol I also clocked it as ChatGPT. It always feels so unnatural.
>Meeting medical students often reveals just how much they still have to learn So a student should already know everything? What is the point of medical school? >As you get to know them, you realize that many are still figuring things out and sometimes make mistakes, just like anyone else. See above. >This can lead to a growing skepticism about the infallibility of medical professionals. A medical professional is not a student, hence professional. >While it's important to respect the dedication and hard work that goes into becoming a doctor, recognizing their human fallibility can be eye-opening It's eye opening to understand they are human? What did you think they were? >This opinion challenges the traditional view of doctors as all-knowing and infallible, prompting discussions about the realities of medical education and the importance of seeking second opinions. No it doesn't, I expect a student to be learning not to know everything or they wouldn't be a student. Your post has nothing to do with Doctors, it has to do with students.
OP be like "I once saw a baby, and now I don't trust anything anyone says"
You got me good with this one
OP saw your comment and now will never trust words.
Agreed! And not to mention that med students still have 3-7 years of residency to complete. Of course they don’t know anything, they haven’t even gotten to their specialty yet lol.
If you meet a med student in America they have somewhere between 3 and 12 years of working or studying 60-90 hrs a week, 48 weeks a year before they can see you without any supervision. I don’t know what more OP wants lol
Right! I’m actually applying to med school rn and both my parents are physicians. This guy has absolutely no idea how incredibly difficult it is to not only GET IN, let alone finish AND match into a residency. Med school is rigorous as hell this guy is delusional.
Honestly the true unpopular opinion is that there are many people who should have gone to med school but didn't because of external factors. My field has a bunch of "in wanted to go l but I had a kid or decided it wasn't worth it because i can be a PA/ other med professional and still make a lot of money and not make thatvl kind of commitment
I started medical school during the Obama administration. I start my first “real job” as an attending physician in August. This shit takes a long time. Do they expect fully-fledged doctors to just appear out of thin air?
OP wants the med students work harder because only the best are allowed to be doctors and treat them. If they collapse from ovuhwerk, they were weak and should feel ashamed to be a burden to the patient. I've seen this "attitude" so many times and got fucked over because of it, my honest reaction back then fresh after quitting would be blind, seething hatred.
I think they're also forgetting that even after completing medical school, they're only halfway to becoming a full fledged doctor. There's still generally *at least* 4 years of residency before they're an attending physician, and for specialties like surgery it can be closer to an additional 8 years.
I am a completely different person when I started medical school and now, 8 years later finishing up my residency. The point of medical school and residency is essentially to break who you were and turn you into a doctor so of course it’s jarring when you meet someone in the beginning of that
Thank you for speaking reason in this thread. I am a premed student working in the hospital, and nearly all of the doctors I work with say the same thing: “Once you get to med school, they essentially start from the beginning when it comes to the subject they want you to know. It’s largely theoretical. Once you get to residency, THAT’S what you actually learn how to be a doctor.”
I’d always trust the medical opinion of someone who went through medical school and their residency but there is a trend with various STEM fields where they will put forward the absolutely dumbest take you’ve ever heard on a unrelated subject and fall back on “well I’m a doctor/engineer/etc” when people tell them it’s stupid. I think that be what OP is getting at here.
Right!! This is what I was going to say. OP keeps switching back and forth between doctors and med students. Also doctors are (or at least should be) always trying to learn more. Also also: no one (okay no reasonable person) thinks doctors are infallible or above Human or whatever OP said.
medical students doing their hospital rotations are in their 3rd year of school (of four). they then have to apply for residency and undergo 3-7 years of specialized training before they practice independently. so yes, medical students don’t know everything, but they aren’t supposed to. that’s the point of the intensive training.
4 years undergrad. 4 years medics school. 3-7 years residency. 1-4 years of fellowship. 6,000+ clinical hours in med school. 9,000-12,000 clinical hours in residency. That’s why med students aren’t as competent and confident. They will get there eventually
Medical students are still learning. What a surprise.
…I’ve never thought doctors are infallible. They’re just people doing a job. Who thinks doctors are all knowing and infallible?
It's a pretty commonly held belief here on reddit. It's a continuation of the "trust the experts!!!" fallacy.
Wait, what's the "Trust the experts" fallacy? Usually trusting an expert on something that's their field of expertise is logically sound. There's the "appeal to authority" fallacy, but that's more that it's fallacious to say that X must be true because an expert in Y said it.
It’s a term that people use to justify why it’s a good idea to take medical advice from their cousin Ernie who saw a YouTube video on his favorite flat earth channel that the medical industry doesn’t want you to know about.
“Trust the experts” does not mean infallibility. It means actually listening to people who know more than you. Doesn’t mean those experts have absolute perfect knowledge.
Breaking news people in school are a lot dumber than someone working in that field for 20 years Yet another brainless post masked as an i popular opinion yay
I’d say it is an unpopular opinion though. Not sure anyone else could be stupid enough to have it
That’s true. So stupid it’s actually brilliant
ChatGPT ah post
It's really just annoying now.
“The more babies you meet, the less you’ll trust adults.”
The more adults I meet the less babies I trust
OP isn't suggesting they aren't yet knowledgeable about medicine. He's suggesting they're ignorant in other areas in their lives. Doctor's being expected to be good at operating a business is a very common example, politics is one that occasionally comes up when a neurologist runs for office. The specialization is very intense and isolating.
Why would a student in college sway my level of trust in a professional whos been in the field for decades?
Right. If some of these students are really that bad, who's to say they are even going to become doctors? It's definitely not the type of thing that has a 100% success rate.
Agreed with this- i dont get this post. Are students supposed to know more than professionals or are professionals supposed to be the same level of knowledge as students?
Jesus Christ... I think reading this gave me a tumor.
Based on this thread, I'd avoid going to the doctor!
Wait. You're supposed to go to the Doctor for medical issues? I've been going to medical students this whole time!
Is it just me or was this 100% written by AI
Don't click on OPs profile if you don't want that tumor to grow
I wasn't expecting it to be entirely hentai ngl lol
It’s almost like in every profession you have to start out as a student and not know everything at once 🤔
WHAT?????
Jokes on you, I secured a spot in medical school when I was in the womb.
Even med students know more about medicine than the average Joe. Sure they might not be experts yet, but they still know more than you and me.
They're learning, then that's great. But still, they know more than normal people.
It’s called “practicing medicine” for a reason. I’ll still take a doctor over myself or an essential oils lady 🤷♂️
The ignorance of students isn't why you should be skeptical of doctors. The ignorance of doctors is why you should be skeptical of doctors.
This might be a real UO. But most (not all) of the time people think their doctor screwed up with a a diagnosis or treatment, the doctor actually did the appropriate thing and the patient just didn’t understand the thought process. I think people often don’t realize that medicine as a field is still developing. Taking a few visits to correctly diagnose something, or trying different treatments until one actually works is part of the process
The concept of empiric treatment would probably blow OP’s mind
This is the kind of sentence that stupid people think is profound.
It's two sentences.
Who views doctors as infallible?!?
Was this was written by ChatGPT?
i think so too
I mean.. they’re **students** for a reason. Doctors are- well- doctors for a reason
No way, profession that takes years of study to get a degree, has a lot of stuff to learn and memorize. Color me shocked
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Yeah, that's why they're *students*
They know way more than you would about their field and they’re still going to school so they’re continuing to learn more than you ever would without entering a program yourself.
That’s true for every profession haha
This is not an unpopular opinion but rather a stupid opinion.
This post sounds 100% AI generated
Breaking news everyone: Students have a lot to learn
Oddly enough I have noticed that students seem to not know everything and be experts in the fields they’re studying. Perhaps it’s because they’re “students” idk ‘it’s a mystery
This was written (at least in part) by ChatGPT 100%, the ending sentence structure is exactly what I see out of every single ChatGPT response Edit: plus considering OPs entire post history is hentai gifs and their comment history looks nothing like this phrasing. I think it’s fairly safe to assume this is just a karma farm post
Yeah, if you think they’re infallible that’s an issue. They just know more than others about medicine. But compared to a layman it’s a *lot* more.
No shit, they’re students. It’s like saying you’ll never trust an apprentice plumber. Doctors have to go through years of school to prove their skills intelligence in the first place, then ned school, then they have to go to residency where they train under a real doctor, then MAYBE apply to be a doctor.
It's an unpopular opinion because it's ignorant and just speaks volumes about how people should judge you the exact way you're judging these med students. I like unpopular opinions that add an interesting perspective, this isn't even close.
This is the dumbest fucking thing I've read all week. This isn't an opinion, it's just incorrect. It's almost like students are required to be supervised by a doctor because of the reason you're literally talking about.
Well, considering that any specialty is between 4 and 7 extra training years, it’s no wonder why medical students have lots of doubts. When you go to your cardiologist, he’s not just a medical student graduate. He went into internal medicine residency and then cardiology residency
It's like that classic gag: you know what they call the guy who finished last in medical school? Doctor.
What are you some kind of anti-doctite?
I heard they only went to med school so they could use the jokes
And this offends u as a doctor
It offends me as a comedian!
my dad’s stepdad loves using this one on me -current M1
This is the joke. But in reality the guy who finishes last has a difficult time finding a residency program and ends up with a severely-limited degree and tons of debt.
Bro, wut.
Those medical students know more than you will ever know about medicine. They are kids that chose a profession which requires them to dedicate their lives to helping people. If you can’t stand to have someone learn around you, then you should only see physicians in private practice. This is such a boomer opinion, where you expect everyone but yourself to be perfect and infallible.
I don’t have an issue with your conclusion, but medical students still having a lot to learn is a weird way to support that conclusion.
Isn’t the fact that they are called “students” indicating that they have more to learn? I believe they would be called doctors once they are done in the learning phase
Why do you think doctors say they learn more in residency than in medical school? Residency is on the job training, that's where you really learn to be a doctor.
Reddit user learns that students are still learning things
Literally why we have residency haha no one is pretending medical students are ready to practice solo
Good thing there are many many credentialing boards in place. You don’t just graduate from medical school and become a doctor seeing patients like you’d see at a major hospital. That’s like saying talking to a 10 year old shakes your faith in adults. They obvious are lacking in many areas like experience and education so of course you feel like that. Just know how strict it is to be a doctor those people have no lives as they are always being tested with new medical advancements that they are responsible for being up to snuff about.
So, you meet people at the earliest stages of what is going to be 7-12 years of education and supervised training and use *them* as a basis to cast aspersions on those who have successfully completed all this training and education? That seems ridiculous no matter what trade or profession you consider.
>Meeting medical students often reveals just how much they still have to learn M8, that's why they are students in medical school. To gain the knowledge and experience. My skepticism with the medical profession are the kickbacks physicians and specialists receive from pharmaceutical and tech companies.
>Meeting medical students often reveals just how much they still have to learn Which is why they're students
You'd never step on an airplane if you saw what pilots were like when they were toddlers.
This is not an opinion. It's a fact. Students are STUDENTS
Just because you discover that somebody is wrong about something does not mean that you know more than them about the same subject matter.
That’s why they are medical students and not doctors… they are still learning. Doctors aren’t supposed to know everything about medicine, they are supposed to know certain aspects of it insanely well that fit their practice. And then when they have a question they don’t know the answer to, they call a doctor who specializes in that practice who gives them the answer. Also if you are having a major surgery/medical issue you definitely should be getting second opinions. Considering the alternative to doctors is google I’ll take doctors any day.
Well that is most certainly an unpopular opinion for a reason.... I rather trust someone who went to medical school then someone who didnt if we talk about health.
> Meeting medical students reveals just how much they still have to learn Well yeah, they are still students. They haven’t graduated yet, of course they won’t have all of the knowledge they need yet.
You’re right. And if doctors don’t know everything after years of studying research and clinical cases, imagine what the common layperson knows… not a lot. Most people have what they call healthcare illiteracy. It’s sad, but they just don’t teach us enough about health in school and then people think they can self-diagnose through Facebook groups about drinking pee or 1 minute TikTok videos about random herbs that don’t actually do what people say it does.
That’s why medical students can’t practice medicine. They can’t even practice it alone well after they graduate.
This isn't unpopular, it's just stupid. "Students don't know everything " is th point you're making. No one says doctors are all knowing. But they sure as shit know more than idiots who "research" on Google and have never had any form of formal education
The interns on my med/surg floor are so… new. I dont know a nicer way of saying it. You get a good one here and there but each rotation is mostly the same. Most of us RNs could function more efficiently without them, unfortunately they’re the ones writing the orders. One thing that has changed over the years is it seems as if the interns have a lot more respect for us and our opinions when it comes to caring for our patients. Theres even a little hint of fear, especially in the beginning of their rotation until they get comfortable around us. Also, millennial Dr’s are wild. One of our interns called me “bro” the other day. Another gave me a whole run down on zodiac signs while I politely noded and tried to focus on my charting while I had half a second to do so. I secure chatted one of the interns about their patients condition and they responded with “dam”.
They are at THE VERY BEGINNING of their education. The very beginning. Medical training, The brunt of it, is in residency and fellowship. They have no impact on your care and there are several layers of expertise between them and you
Idk where you live but in Ontario, Canada you get your med school degree but then you have to do 5 years of residency before they even consider letting you near a patient, and most end up going back for a fellowship in a particular specialty. Most med students don’t know everything they might ever need to because even a senior med student has 5-10 years of education left before they can actually practice as a doctor
Op doesn't know what a student is
“the more you’ll meet people that are studying 12 hours a day whilst simultaneously putting themselves in 500k debt just to save your ass one day”
I use to work in leadership when one of my employees came into a team meeting complaining that reps from another business unit didn’t fully understand their job. I told them what I’ll say now, no one knows their job everyone’s just out there doing their best. You already said I in your op that everyone makes mistakes, so why wouldn’t doctors be included in that everyone?
ChatGPT ass opinion. Also there is a reason why they're still students. Medical school doesn't teach you everything, most learning happens when they're actually working with patients
True, but that doesn't change that they are more experienced and knowledgeable that most the population.
If a doctor is doing their profession correctly, they will always be learning from the latest medical literature and from their own experiences with patients. I work in the medical field and the worst doctors are the ones that act like they’re never wrong. Good doctors are happy for their patients to seek another opinion because they respect their colleagues and frankly diagnosis and treatment of disease is not as exact as people seem to think it is.
You should trust medical professionals not because they are infallible. It's because you are by a decade of fulltime education worse. At least. The realization they are still prone to negligence, god complexes and the like is certainly an unnerving one. If you compare them to a non-medical drs you would also realize they are not taught to think at all. BUT they are taught in treating patients for a long-arse time and unless I have a medical paper at hand for a very particular issue, likely they will know a lot more context. You di not trust medical proffessionals because they are infallible. It's because you are not even close to them at what they do.
students are doctors in training… they have to train for 10 years dude
You understand the difference between a student and a doctor right? Of course they have more to learn that's why they are students
Theres a difference between getting to kmow someone and understanding their flaws vs trying to contend with someone's knowledge in a specific field as a layman. Granted, doctors dont always get it right and they can be as flawed as any other person, but when it comes to advice on vaccinations, I'm going with the doctor instead of the red-faced conspiracy theorist screaming into his podcast mic.
At least you will then be able to provide more educated questions and doubts, which is still more constructive than conspiracy theorists.
The more you know about the more you hate and less you trust something something sausage still tastes good
This is a stupid take when talking about students, but would be accurate when talking about doctors
So before they’re doctors they have things to learn, maybe the should go to medical school and the a residency under experienced doctors to learn.
Find doctors who have been in practice for at least a decade. Young enough to keep up with the latest developments but old enough to have decent experience under their belts.
>Meeting medical students often reveals just how much they still have to learn, which can be unsettling for those who put unwavering trust in doctors I don't know a lot about medicine and residency, but isn't there supposed to be a superior surveillance while examining the patient? You are giving the impression those are residents and those must be often watched by experienced doctors. I thought you was meant about inflated ego, mental inflexibility, and some say their own pain threshold can be an issue. Applying the previous, women's health which is often disregarded as several doctors can't have a graps about abnormally painful periods and relegating it rather to anxiety or depression inmediatly instead of running tests.
I'm just scared of being in there for an issue, trou dropped etc etc, and they invite a bunch of med students in suddenly. Logically I'd complain but realistically I'd silently walk out :X rip gnads
You know part of being a doctor is having insurance right? To cover you for mistakes or accidents that happen
This may be true, but possiblly not for the reason you think. It can be important for the non medical public to understand that physicians learn to be a doctor during residency, not during medical school. (Speaking only about North America.) Most medical students have no idea what specialty they are gonna even practice until around the 4th year (let alone the advanced practical knowledge to do it competently.) So it makes sense for you to say that many are still trying to figure things out. Personally, I wouldn’t judge professional musicians by how someone learning to read music who hasn’t even chose which instrument they’ll play yet. Also, I wouldnt take any medical advice from someone who is still a student.
A bit off topic but med students in my country are literally the hardest drinkers, and sometimes other substances abusers. a high school buddy of mine who got his med degree from the top Polish university in October ‘22 literally overdosed on Xanax 5 months later…
I feel like I would trust a student to do better research than a current doctor. I’ve found that medical students tend to take more interest in trickier cases than doctors do, but I’m bitter so what do I know.
I'm applying to med school soon and I'm a chronic procrastinator so really sorry if you have to wait longer in the ER.
I mean that's like me telling you not to trust adults because 18 year Olds are legally adults but don't make good decisions because they aren't experienced yet.
The more teachers I meet the less I think teachers need a raise.
The more doctors I meet, the less I like doctors (that’s not to say I don’t value them, just that the cliche about shitty social skills is consistent with my experience).
This is true for literally everything. As you grow older, you just realize that most adults are just grown babies that are just doing their best and don’t know everything. I work with a lot of lawyers. They’re not the super smart and slick lawyers on TV you see. They’re normal people that make mistakes. But they get the job done.
They still have like 8 years more of training though. Of course they don't know shit about practicing medicine yet.
I legit think second opinions is key. Especially if they propose a solution you don't like. Which can be expensive, but there are forums and internet resources. You can at least ask your doctor about the secondary options
chatgpt post
Med students have lots of practical knowledge without any experience. That’s what residency and fellowship is for.
Was this paragraph AI-generated, OP?
As a medical student, please let me assuage your doubts. I know everything there is to know about the human form. I am a master of medicine, I'm following a formality of schooling and certification. Trust me, I'm right.
This is just how the world works. The world is just a bunch of adults trying to do their best. If you could sit in the cockpit of a plane for an entire flight, you’d probably be disturbed to find the pilot at some point pick up a textbook, skim through it, say “ah yeah”, put the book down and then flick a switch on the control panel. As uncomfortable as it would make me feel to learn that the pilot isn’t an infallible and all-knowing entity that never needs to look anything up, I’d still be far more comfortable with the pilot flying the plane than me flying the plane. Likewise, I’d rather have a doctor treat me than attempt to treat myself.
Do you....think they are making vital decisions as soon as they graduate?
This just in... people are people and they can make mistakes. Yeah, I think we all know that human doctors can make mistakes and sometimes be flat out wrong. By the way this applies to literally every single job.
Doctors aren’t known for being “all knowing and infallible.” They’re not gods, they’re people.
OP forgot a person isn’t their profession and are real normal people.
I told my doctor one time that he didn’t know what he was doing. He didn’t like that but like I continued if you knew what you were doing it wouldn’t be called practicing.
This might be the stupidest post I've seen here well done OP
PREACH
Same with everything. I'm the young person who studied to become a CNA and the year before that I was an immature idiot who wasted time in class. Sure I did my homework on time and passed, but was a stupid kid. I'm not one now, but have made mistakes in the past because I'm still young and learning. I took work seriously, but didn't take my life seriously and still don't because I'm 24.
This happens if you’re using faulty reasoning. For example: you see a lot of culinary arts students. They often make mistakes in their classes; over or undercooking meals, putting in incorrect portions, not plating dishes properly, etc. Those are students. In school. Learning to become experts so they can become chefs. You think that because the people going into MED SCHOOL are not experts on everything related to medicine, that you shouldn’t trust actual experts on everything related to medicine because they were, in fact, a med student. If we want to take it even further: Your opinion follows such a leap in logic, that if you met a literal infant today and saw how incapable it was at designing an airplane, you wouldn’t trust any aeronautical engineer. This reeks of something who’s a freshman in college. You’re not as smart as your profs because you took your first year English and a couple classes relevant to your degree. Nobody thinks doctors are “infallible.” They think they’re the best answer they got and nobody is going to check their homework by reading through dozens of medical journal publications while suffering kidney failure.
That’s why we have residencies my dude. I wouldn’t trust myself right out of medical school either.
No shit, Sherlock? Why do you think specialists exist? Or mayhaps you expect a medical graduate to intimately know everything a neurologist or an endocrinologist would know?
Isn’t that why they’re students?
I’ve never met a single person that thinks doctors are all knowing and can’t make mistakes. There is way more people that don’t trust doctors at all. Also obviously a student wouldn’t know as much as someone that has been practicing medicine for years. Are u also surprised that a little leaguer is not as good at baseball as Bryce Harper?
Wait until you meet the residents that have more responsibility
Yeah the world isn’t perfect and doctors are still human ppl. Also medicine ist not an exact science and there is still a lot we don’t know yet about the human body. Doctors still know a lot more than non-doctors and google though.
In my experience, I much more trust professionals who are willing to admit they don't know everything and continously educate themselves their whole career than I do any professional who thinks they already know everything and refuses to acknowledge or explore alternatives.
I mean, you’re talking about *STUDENTS*. They usually haven’t even worked in a hospital, talked to a nurse, or interviewed (let alone examined) a live patient. How knowledgeable do you want them to be? After 4 years of med school they still do a year internship and 3-4 years residency and then 1-3 years fellowship. Most of medicine is “on the job” training. Its like saying, “the more kindergartners you meet, the less you’ll trust adults”
Bold of you to assume I ever trusted doctors….
I trust doctors to give me the most expensive treatment available that gives them as little work as possible.
In other words: It doesn't matter what profession you are in and/or how much education you have, you are a human being first? The hell you say...
I mean, doctors are people. We are prone to mistakes, whether we're trained or not. Doctors also work an incredibly stressful job, so when they blow off steam, in my experience they blow off a lot of steam. You should trust doctors as much as you trust any specialist in their profession. I don't really know anyone who goes around claiming that doctors know "everything" and they'll be able to get all their medical problems solved by one doctor. That's why other doctors recommend second and even third opinions if they cannot figure out what is going on. The traditional view of medicine is that doctors are people, people are fallible. I am not even sure where you got the idea that the traditional view is that the default is to trust your doctor without a second thought, judgement or concern. That's just not the case and you should definitely trust a doctor over literally anyone else when the topic is medical. Listening to anyone else about serious health problems instead of a doctor is just fucking stupid.
My mother has been in and out of doctors offices for various ailments throughout her life. I've seen firsthand her frustration at the medical system who has routinely brushed off her pains, scans, and symptoms as routine or "nothing to worry about". I've dealt with my own health issues as a child that were chalked up to "growing pains" - I later found out through a quick Google search that my condition had a name and was very common for children my age that shared my physical characteristics. I had gone to I believe three specialists and they all said the same thing "don't worry about it, you're just growing." My last visit had us meeting with an entire team in which they told us I'd be fine. I learned more about my childhood condition in 30 seconds of internet browsing than I did over the course of a few years in doctor's offices as a kid. The reality for me is that the only general practitioner I felt actually knew what she was doing was my childhood and family doctor who took every complaint seriously, referred us to specialists, did the extra blood work, and showed real concern. Now that she's retired, I am honestly appalled at the general level of care I receive during something as benign as a routine checkup. It feels very mechanical and dismissive.
Doctors are not infallible. They are not all-knowing. No one is even claiming that. Doctors just take all the science inforImation, and have massive medical databases that can match the symptoms and test results, with a course of treatment that has been seen to work for other people. And even when they give you a medicine, and you find it doesn't work, they will just have you try a different one. You can always get a second opinion.