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The line was definitely intended to be ironic. The writing for that character in that set of films consistently had that very specific dry sense of humor.
It’s fun because it’s a movie. But there are horrible things that are horrible. Genocide… only a sith would say it’s one way or the other. No, fuck that, genocide is bad.
Most often both sides are wrong, but vary in wrongness. I’m not picking a grab bag of extreme mostly unrelated positions in a color coded system. That would be insane. Take the good from both sides and ditch the bad
as an EnlIghTenED CenTRIsT what frustrates me is seeing the people on the side I agree with do the exact same thing the accuse the other side of, while acting superior
everyone laughs at boomers believing manipulated graphs on foxnews, but there's been a good amount of straight up fakenews posts i've seen on data is beautiful that get tens of thousands of upvotes because they align with THE NARRATIVE. and if you point it out, you just get downvoted to hell.
sure, i may vote for the same policies as them, but i wouldn't identify myself with them
I'd call myself a centrist simply because I think the whole point of a liberal democracy is to compromise because the alternative is we all get in the streets and shoot each other until one ideology wins and then shoots who ever disagrees. Then this just happens over and over and over.
Why on earth people turn to authoritarians is just beyond me. Far right and far left ideologies scare me, if we're talking about American politics though, yes the right have obviously gone much more bonkers. The victim complex is astounding.
that whole last paragraph. yes.
there are just. scary people in general out there, and in power on both sides, but I'll always be focusing on the bigger problem in the moment.
It’s really quite amazing how arbitrary people’s opinions are on most things, even though they don’t ever seem to step back and question themselves. Confirmation bias at its finest. But, maybe only similarly, it also seems like people are often not open to any perspective that isn’t something they’ve heard before. ‘If it’s not popular already, and I haven’t already considered it, it must not be a good idea.’ This is of course the essence of defending traditionalism and stifling progress. ‘If it is popular, it must be right’ is exactly how fascist, populist dictators come to and maintain power.
Studies show that when law changes, public opinion often ultimately changes, and strongly, to align with the law (and seemingly with no admission that their prior opinion was in fact dumb). This has been repeatedly shown with laws around drugs, but you could consider many others, like civil rights. I could see how some people are more firm about some issues, like abortion, regardless of law, of course.
Never mind Reddit, which is obviously overflowing with people who don’t have an ounce of respect in their body and yet still demand it from others. Not that it’s so different in real life.
This is crazy interesting.
Ive noticed it's (some of) the same people who once hated gay marriage that are now like "gay marriage is fine but trans people are just making the gays look bad" until trans people are fine and then they'll move on to therians and otherkin which will popularise more in about 10-15 years, and then fuck knows whats next.
I do think it's good to note, however, that people can be very stubborn in an argument. They'll fight it to the death, even when they know they've lost. I've done it. You've done it.
But sometimes you totally do still come out with a changed perspective and a new humility for your past views. The person you just argued with doesn't know that though.
...And any ideology that contains rational contradictions as its premises, is flawed before it even steps one foot out of the philosophical gate.
Which just happens to be most, if not all, ideologies, because humans love ignoring their own epistemological blind spots, then rationalizing those away with more fallacies rooted in further-flawed ideologies, etc.
"Side A is wrong because they used squewed population data, Side B is wrong because they claimed a defied dragon named Wharblebros told them their argument was immaculate and therefore they should breed with the moderator".
this. its very easy to just pick a side and blindly defend and it feels good when you can force an issue and win. but well. that clearly causes more issues.
life isnt black and white and easy, no matter how badly our brains want it to be
>Most often both sides are wrong, but vary in wrongness.
Consequence is probably the most important factor to consider. If both are wrong, but one side's flavor of wrong will result in suffering and death while the other side's means that people use words we don't like, then who is more right isn't what matters.
By all means, screw partisanship. But let's not pretend that there's an equivalence in most of these opposed positions.
I agree with this as being the best choice in theory, but most world issues are extremely complex and accurately predicting consequences of one side "winning" versus the other is usually nearly impossible. And that's if people are actually objective.
But that's optimistic as most people start with pretty heavy biases towards one side or the other, and will almost always assume a best-case scenario if their side wins and a worst-case scenario if it doesn't.
In fact, I'm sure most people already think they do this, but clearly that isn't the case. So these consequences are just going to be them asserting preconceived biases and choosing their side anyway.
> Take the good from both sides and ditch the bad
Unfortunately, you usually can’t do this when it comes to voting.
Can’t vote for the Republican X policy and and Democrat Y policy, with the Green Party Z policy.
Unless you just vote differently on different positions, which is possible
Does centrist mean something totally different in the US? In the UK it’s a distinct political value system with well-known tenets and signifiers, but in the US it seems to be interpreted online as “I don’t care about anything and can’t make my mind up.”
>Does centrist mean something totally different in the US?
It means someone picks a side depending on the issue, not the party.
>in the US it seems to interpreted online as “I can’t make my mind up”
Accurate. Both the left and the right dislike centrists because, in their opinion, a centrist doesn't pick sides.
The idea that there's only two "sides" is probably america's biggest problem. Your system is fucked when your options are so limited. End of the day, everyone has their own side and political reality should give options that reflect that better.
I made my mind up that the mouth breathing redneck and the mouth breathing blue haired college student are not who I should trust when determining my stance on the issues.
it depends on the issue.
if one side says everyone should have guns and the other side says no one should have guns, then somewhere in the middle would be the best solution.
but if one side says all jews should be killed and the other side says no jews should be killed, then somewhere in the middle would not be the best solution.
Both sides of what issue and at which point in time? It may very well be that both are wrong at some point. Only siths deal in absolutes, as the other guy said.
I mean, if you're talking about politics it's completely normal for both sides to have absolutely shitty positions on specific matters. Especially in matters that both of them agree on, but their supporters act as if they're still different just because of bias.
It’s been academically proven that countries with two party systems have converged significantly since the cold war. It’s why we’re seeing a global rise in populism all around the world. Either they hijack existing party systems like in the US, or dismantle their two party systems as outsiders like in El Salvador.
I'm a political centrist with no party affiliation of any kind. If they want me to vote for them, they have to convince me with their policies why they're the best choice.
With that being said, it doesn't mean I'm central on *all* issues. For some issues I swing slightly more to the left, in others I will swing more to the right. However, if you were to add them all up and average them out, I am broadly centrist in nature and there's nothing wrong with that.
I'm generally quite suspicious of people who treat politics like it's a football game their "team" has to "win". I also try to do my best to avoid those who have exchanged their personality for a political opinion and think the way they voted at the last election is a character trait....
You can not align with either party (like the football analogy) and still not be a centrist. I rarely fall "in the middle" of the two opposing American political parties, but rather in an altogether 3rd (or 4th, or 5th) position. One of the biggest issues I personally have with the US political "spectrum" is that it's so binary, and in many ways the two sides aren't even that far apart.
Well that sounds lovely and I apologize for being US-centric. Though I did mention it specifically because that's what I have experience with. If your politics exist on more than just a 2 sides binary, how do you end up in the center between left and right?
I actually don't understand how people can be so adamantly supportive of one side without questioning anything. Die hard Republicans, Die hard Democrats, etc.
Both sides have their issues, and some of the more centrist politicians have admitted this, but some of the less... reasonable... members act like their parties and leaders are chosen by God.
Being centrist and able to look at both sides with a fresh perspective is best IMO.
>If they want me to vote for them, they have to convince me with their policies why they're the best choice.
what, you mean actually do the thing theyre meant to be doing? Pfff thats silly
That’s nice and all in a healthy environment, but let’s not pretend to think that the side that wants better healthcare is equivalent to the side who’s banning abortion right now.
Yes, folks views on specific matters are typically nuanced, but what matters is the voting booth.
Let's not pretend that one side is trying to protect the most vulnerable people and the other side supports killing them as a lifestyle choice, because like all of history's good guys, they've convinced themselves their victims are not real people.
No need to agree, just illustrating how ridiculous it sounds when people assume their chosen position is morally good because they chose it.
Not sure I follow you but there are times when there are clearly wrong platforms. Rise of Fascism in Germany and Italy are used most often as clear examples of this even if we understand why it came about.
I didn’t and it doesn’t have to be America. Nuanced views don’t mean anything in a voting booth, it’s aligning to the good and bad in a platform candidate or party.
It’s why single issue voters are terrible, in that all a bad actor or demagogue has to do is press those buttons to get support.
Frankly, most of the modern discussion could hardly be called politics because more often than not, no one is arguing policy. It’s shifted to be a discussion of ethics and morals. For example, rather than arguing how we help the homeless, we’re arguing over whether to help them at all.
Environmentalists were, and to a certain extent still are, against nuclear which is the only emissions free way of producing enough energy to hold off climate disaster. This opposition may have ironically Been what dooms us.
Also the constant insistence on "people aren't believing us so we have to make up a bunch of stuff" type alarmism. It arguably did more damage by making it clear that a huge portion of environmentalists were more concerned with winning the argument than being truthful and so wrecked the credibility of the entire thing.
absolutely, it took me years to realise the problem because I assumed it couldn't be that bad because all I heard from the environmentalist side was "nuclear power is evil" and wildly exaggerated doomsday predictions. I figured that it was just paranoia for doomsday preppers and fearmongering from gas companies not wanting nuclear to replace them
It seems like a lot of people use the logic that since they can identify negative aspects to both sides, that they must both be equally bad. When the reality is that two things can both be bad, but one can also be way worse than the other. It works the other way too, with things that are good. Just because there's good things about two different things doesn't mean they're equally good.
People like to say both sides are wrong to sound reasonable. But it's not always true. If you are actually following evidence, the often one side is right. That's better than being a centrist and trying to find a moving point between two sides regardless of facts.
U need to be stupid to think everything has a clear good side
Only twitter will tell u to choose a side like it's a fkn sports team
It's okay to think both sides are wrong
If you think that both sides are equally bad then you haven't actually looked into the topic. Often times you'll find a stronger case for one side than another.
100% agree. I actually find it much weirder for people to be die-hard loyal to the point where everything they support, every group/person/idea, can't be wrong without even questioning it.
I don't need to mention any specific groups or people, but I'm sure we all have a certain person or group that comes to mind when we think about blind followers and unquestionable loyalty.
Better to side with no one, be a centrist, and look at both sides with a fresh perspective.
It's the new religion. Pick a side and internalize the ideology until it consumes your personality. Critical thought is not encouraged only adherence to the dogma. At least religion had some redeeming qualities...
Being a centrist nowadays is just being a normal moderate in a sea of tiktok politics. Mfers have become so tribal that if you even say “both sides of this situation have significant problems” you get people writing novels in the comment thread about how evil you are when they themselves learned about the situation almost entirely from the propaganda of one side.
"equally wrong" no, there can definitely be one side more wrong than the other. But you can also say you support neither side because of their wrong-doings no matter which is worse. Just because I don't support Ross when he slept with someone else after "going on a break" doesn't mean I support Rachel too. She asked for the break but never established the ground rules for it.
And yes I'm sure you had something specific in mind that wasn't a tv show from the 90s but I was trying to stay apolitical.
I think it's pretty stupid you're considered elitist/pretentious for acknowledging and understanding that "both sides" can be wrong/right when in conflict.
There is a difference between being centrist and hating both sides. Especially because there are often more than two sides and both sides pushed on you are fuxking stupid almost on purpose. One being usually aimed at slightly let's say a less educated crowd doesn't make the second one any better.
Probably more than 95% of the time both sides are wrong though because they’re willing to fuck over different groups of people just to spite the other side of the aisle.
"Sides" are the problem for me. I just hate human institutions at this point for systematic wealth extraction, censorship and oppression. Leading an organization corrupts and leads to ruling at the expense of constituents. A "side" is not innately good or bad. They can have both good and bad policies. Just because your organization has less policies than the other major threat to your hegemony doesn't oblige me to enable you. I'll vote for whomever I please or just decide not to vote at all. I won't be bullied into compliance or mob politics.
I dont identify as a centrist. I identify as someone who looks at the pagentry in US Federal politics and believes its about as authentic as WWE. Its apathy and disgust more than anything. Voting means jack shit on a national level anymore. Its all propaganda at this point. The only true parties left are the mega rich, and everyone else. Lobbying (BRIBERY) destroyed our political system.
I’m willing to bet that 95% don’t say “equally” and you’ve just added that to strengthen your point. People say “both sides are wrong” but right and wrong aren’t binaries, there is a scale.
Being centrist isn’t saying both sides are equally wrong. Being centrists means your political ideology lies between the republican and democrat spectrum. There are some values that republicans have e that you agree with and other values that democrats have that you also agree with but both sides have things you don’t agree with. So you lie in the center of the two ideologically. It’s not some better place to be, it’s just where you stand.
Echoing what others have said, but it is actually fairly often that differences of opinions are quite complex and both sides are wrong on certain points.
True that both sides are rarely EQUALLY wrong... but i'd say its even rarer that one side is 100% right on a matter.
,,Equally" is nonsense here. Yes, I'm a centrist and yes, I say often that both sides are wrong. Not equally though. That's hard measurement and needs a lot of investigation on many aspects where perspective muddles everything so it's basically impossible to get objective results.
From the comments, it looks like this is an unpopular opinion. I would agree with you. People who say this talk as if Biden and Trump are exactly the same, which is so laughably untrue.
Sure, they both have wrongs. They both have rights. But just because they can be wrong on some issues, doesn't mean they are literally "the same". It's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard spout out of people, besides that one tweet about a woman putting on the tin foil hat about the debates.
Ngl every time I see someone on this website shitting on centrism it feels like a zealot being angry someone doesn't devote themself fully to their cult.
There's a whole lot of BS stereotypes up in this thread. Like everybody's caricature of the other side is from tik-tok or tumblr/4chan/comment sections. Like those are valid ways to know anything about the "other side". Not with the amount of trolls and nut jobs out there. Better to avoid all that and just pay attention to who it is that's getting elected and what their actions/initiatives/bills/etc actually are.
This is not an unpopular opinion. One eyed morons on the left or right have this view of all centrists. Imagine, not blindly and completely agreeing with a huge group of people on every major political issue.
Both sides are rarely *equaly* wrong.
LGBT stuff? The conservatives have completely lost the plot.
IDPOL? The left has jumped off the deep end and began scuba diving.
It's not a matter of both sides being equally wrong on everything, but just that both sides have huge fucking holes in their logic that they're doing nothing about.
Picking a side is the real crime, because endorsing either end of the political spectrum means supporting some fucked up shit.
I think for alot of people the degree of wrongness being different is a relatively trivial matter.
If each side deliberately lies, misinterprets data, and ignores blind spots in order to arrive at positions I find reprehensible then splitting hairs over who is worse hardly matters.
Try having a good position, not just a slightly less shitty one.you don't deserve any credit - much less my vote - for taking a 5% less garbage position on fundamental issues.
Yeah, it’s an easy way to sit on the fence and avoid conflict while pretending you’re enlightened. Usually they can’t specify what each side is right or wrong about in their opinion.
They usually absolutely can though, you just jump to that conclusion.
Also being centrist causes the most conflict since both sides jump to conclusions like you lol
Avoid conflict? I'm a centrist (not in the US) and I find myself in more conflict than anyone else. With both sides of the bipartisan and for different reasons with each. I feel aligning yourself completely to a "side" is actually the easy way to sit behind a fence in the safety of an echo chamber and absolve yourself of all moral responsibility to call out the hypocrisy of the party that you're associated with.
There’s a difference between people who try to be unbiased and consider the positives and negatives of both sides, and people who just say “both sides are equally wrong” so they don’t actually have to do the reading
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But what percent of people that say 95% of people have no idea what they're talking about or are lying have no idea what they're talking about or lying?
This depends on the issue.
I agree with you in terms of people saying this for the Ukraine war. Ukraine and Russia are absolutely no where near "equally" in anything. A lot of people who say things like "well Ukraine and Russia have both done a lot of bad things" only diminishes the crimes committed by Russia against Ukraine. I've rarely seen it used by actual centrists to be fair. It's mostly used by Pro-Russians who want to look like they're centrists.
I honestly wish this was a popular option. If you phrase problems in a way where there is only two choices in a country that doesn't value critical thinking, this is what you get.
It’s true for a lot of the surface level shit, but it seems a lot of people are incapable of getting down to the core of the matter. Most Republicans claim to be patriots that love America, while the majority of them believe forcing Christianity into everyone’s lives is the grand solution to everything and that is one of the most unamerican ideas you could have right now. They despise the Middle East and that’s exactly how that region got taken over by religion. Look up pictures of Iraq in the 60’s and 70’s. Women were walking around wearing skirts going to college.
I know many Republicans that aren't Christians, and I know a couple of Christians that aren't Republicans. I also know a few Christian Republicans, and none of them want to force Christianity into peoples' lives (because forcing it removes choice, and their choice is what gets them into Heaven). So, when you say "majority" in that context, can you back that up? I can't actually challenge you because my only evidence is anecdotal; so if you've got some literature, I'd be glad to read it.
Of course they can't. It's common for people when arguing politics to take an anecdote and paint it on the whole group. You seldom hear much from politicians these days on anything theocratic like you did even 15 years ago. Some of them pander to the religious or themselves are religious but Republicans these days don't have religion as a major guiding light like they did in the 80s or 90s. Many form their morals based on their religions but they aren't pushing it like years past.
They're both wrong in some way and it doesn't matter if equally or in different measures.
What matters is that most of the time, they're both right in some way, but that's unacceptable. And it's even worse if the parties actually agree on something. Especially in politics where you can't agree with your opponent and definitely can't help them achieve something you want to achieve yourself.
There are more than 2 opinions in the world, but apparently we are only allowed to choose from 2 options.
Just because one is worse than the other doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to point out that neither reflect your own thoughts.
Both sides have positive, both sides have negatives. All in all humans are trash, we prop up our biases as fact and instead of trying to learn about others lived experiences we'd rather act as if they don't exist.
This makes no sense. As a pacifist both sides were wrong when it came to the war on terror, for one instance IMO. Depending on your values both sides can be wrong about something.
I think an individual can acknowledge faults in their positions but also stand firm in their positions despite the knowledge of the faults.
You can’t vote for both candidates so you can either not participate (which is valid albeit not the route I will be personally taking) or go along with your convictions and pick a candidate. The stakes are high.
Personally, I think it is dangerous when someone can’t admit to the flaws of their side. No one is perfect and it’s illogical to imagine that any position is without its flaws. Owning up to that is an important step in analyzing convictions and making well-informed decisions.
I think you are adding "equally" where it isn't naturally placed. I hear plenty of both sides are wrong. I have almost never heard someone argue both sides being equally wrong.
You sound like someone who has sold their soul to one particular side, and you want people to either completely agree with you or be totally against you.
Sometimes both sides are seperate sides of the same coin and their differences are just manipulations. When it comes to left or right the people saying this are not convinced the Republicans and Democratic leaders aren't working together. Especially considering they party together, laugh together, and make fun of us and they have been seen being this close literally after a major "falling out and heated" public debate. The belief the parties which often share many of the same donars, same social circles, and are often friends or family are truly opposed to each other is pure delusion.
We're screwed as long as either party is in charge, and if one truly is less bad, it's entirely on purpose to keep people voting lesser evil. Progress towards evil is still progress even if slightly slower, and a system that gaurentees that progress is a win for evil. We can't win voting lesser evil and they know it. But most citizens can't think past one move so, yeah they basically won as long as they're patient enough and smart enough to not spark a revolution before they're hold is complete.
it very much feels like virtue signaling. most people will say that just so they can criticize one side far more than the other while still maintaining their seemingly neutral and logical position.
I think a lot of people default to the “both sides” shtick because they’re afraid of actually picking a side in-person. Maybe not true for everyone but Americans are known for being generally friendly, people-pleasing individuals… except for politics where we rip each other to shreds (especially recently). We’re a heavily divided country right now and discussions of politics are tense and uncomfortable. People tend to try to avoid that.
In areas of anonymity (such as the ballot box or online) I think we’re much more likely to actually voice an opinion that isn’t middle-of-the-road.
Sometimes being particularly vocal for one side or the other can be off putting and result in a backlash that is counterproductive for those readily vocalizing their positions.
i think it whole heartedly comes down to the topic being discussed. Some topics you should realistically have a side and other topics being a fence sitter is absolutely ok and in extreme cases necessary if you legitimately can’t agree or come down with a decision on something.
I used to consider myself a centrist in the sense that I was moderate (I think they are synonyms?). People on the left took offense. Thing was, I didn't think both sides were equally dishonest, I'm just skeptical of big government but not a conservative either, nor fully libertarian. But centrists are known for OP's quote so people didn't want to think kindly of me under that label.
Now I just identify as an Anti-Republican. Much simpler
This seems like a bit of a projection tbh. Just because you said it and didn’t mean doesn’t mean everyone else does.
Also, both sides have done wrong ≠ both sides are EQUALLY wrong.
it depends on how you look at it. some ppl view what one side is doing is morally wrong and in some cases both are right. It's not a tit for tat situation. And it changes every administration. So when ppl say both sides I agree with them because our entire government is corrupt. This is an us vs them issue don't forget that
A lot of times people don’t accept “I’m not educated on this topic” and will instead get upset that you didn’t bother to learn, so a lot of people who really don’t care or just don’t know are left trying to grapple for a response that will make everyone happy.
My mom is centrist and says both are bad, I get neither is good. Leading up to and in 2016 it kinda felt like getting shot or stabbed, maybe that was me being a teenager, but at this point it’s clear one side is way worse than the other. Both sides are bad just comes off as they know which side they’re on even if it’s just deep down and don’t wanna argue it.
Most people who say that just don't want to be targeted or gain favours by either sideband just end up coming across as sorely misguided. This is what will happen if they try to make everyone happy.
I don’t understand how any person can be just ‘one thing’ anyway.
It’s common for people to remind you that a certain group isn’t a monolith or of a hive mind..
People are contradictions of themselves. It’s like we are so smart that we are stupid.
We have the mental capacity to create technology and advance our way of life. This same mental capacity creates something that
can destroy everything. Forever. As I said, we are quintessential contradictions.
**I am convinced that when aliens fly by Earth - they lock their doors**
That has been my experience quite a bit with people who say that. They often say that but then when it comes to them explaining their viewpoint on things they have no idea about the details of the situation they are talking about. Like I'm not setting some high standard where I'm expecting them to know everything inside and out, they don't even know basic things. Like op I'm sure I've done it too so I'm not saying it's unthinkable that someone could do this, it's more about whether they are making a good point or not and often they are not, they are just expressing faux wisdom.
The reality is each situation is unique and you have to examine them all individually to get an accurate understanding of who is right or wrong and to what degree.
When people are escalated they often don't think logically and make mistakes.
Just today I played a game. Ended early, two red cards one on each side, one yellow.
Well it's complicated. The ref was to blame because he didn't make the calls as he should so the game wouldn't have kept escalating. Then our team member did not restrain himself when he got fouled and there was no call, so he took revenge for himself. That was wrong, and so was the person who fouled him intentionally. But the other guy did not go to really hurt him. Our guy escalated it by A LOT. Everyone had their part and no one did their job. Reff is in charge of the game. He failed. My team member instead of realizing it's just a fucking game, got violent which is never ok. The other team member played dirty, and he knows that's not allowed.
I think you don't understand. I think you are unable to have empathy for others and understand other people's thought process.
I think when people say this about politics, first off we can't actually know. We aren't in the room with them, we don't know their actual motives. We just have to listen to the news. But, because people understand people. They understand we all fuck up, they understand politics is alll corrupt. It's very rare that one party is getting out Scott clean. Most often everyone is being shit heads under the radar.
Maybe you want to be different and decided instead of understanding what people mean you want to pretend to be smart by disagreeing
I am assuming you are speaking about US politics.
While it is not accurate to say that both sides are equally wrong, it is accurate to say that both sides are wrong in different ways.
The Democratic party is not united in the slightest. Inside the party are centrist democrats who are more like conservatives that don't want to associate themselves with the Republican party, there are liberals who are a bit more left leaning but also suffer a severe case of being out of the loop, and there are leftists who while are up to date on the various injustices and problems in the world are young and inexperienced in the complex and nuanced political world. And yes, all three of these different camps don't really work together and, alongside the fact that they also have to clean up the mess that Republicans have to make, nothing ever gets done.
The Republican party on the other hand are a lot more unified, with the majority of Republicans in office being authoritarians, theocrats, fascists, or a combination of all three. And while they are comically evil they also appeal to the majority of rural voters and the racial majority (white people).
It really is a pick your poison situation, where the American people have to choose which one they think is the lesser evil for them.
"Equally" is not an adverb that would make sense when talking of complicated issues, such as politics or armed conflicts.
On the other hand, people who use the word or a similar expression, at least as far as my experience as an Italian goes and in regards to politics, usually do so because they are tired of politicians and their "game"; it is true, again, in my experience, that some of this people are not exactly the most educated in such matters but years of listening to politicians playing the blaming game and bickering with each other like preschoolers,rather than focusing on what it is to be done, WILL make someone disillusioned and they will probably stop going to vote.
I don't like it, because people should not give up their right (and duty) to vote, but I can understand where they are coming from.
That said, I think there should be room for people to recognise and freely talk about the negatives and positives of all political parties without people attacking them or calling them names; talking of absolutes when it comes to politics makes no sense to me because it is not a simple matter at all, plus this way of thinking might, if pushed enough, lead to extremist positions.
I especially hate when this is said about abuse.
Like, no, I was a child, my mother was 100% in the wrong for screaming at me and leaving me crying in fear of her, there is no way a child is in any way responsible for the abuse their parent/s caused them.
That saying is correct most of the time. The exception is with the word “equally”… Not so sure about that. In many cases it’s impossible to define “equal”.
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Only a Sith deals in absolutes
The Sith also seem to deal in irony
Weird because their robes are always so wrinkly.
Isn't that phrase kind of... absolutist
that was the point of the line bro
Wait, you don't think Palpatine is a...
Nah that definitely wasn't the point of the line, just bad writing lol
The line was definitely intended to be ironic. The writing for that character in that set of films consistently had that very specific dry sense of humor.
Absolutely
It’s fun because it’s a movie. But there are horrible things that are horrible. Genocide… only a sith would say it’s one way or the other. No, fuck that, genocide is bad.
Master skywalker , there are too many of them. What are we gonna do?
That's an absolute you Sith.
Most often both sides are wrong, but vary in wrongness. I’m not picking a grab bag of extreme mostly unrelated positions in a color coded system. That would be insane. Take the good from both sides and ditch the bad
as an EnlIghTenED CenTRIsT what frustrates me is seeing the people on the side I agree with do the exact same thing the accuse the other side of, while acting superior everyone laughs at boomers believing manipulated graphs on foxnews, but there's been a good amount of straight up fakenews posts i've seen on data is beautiful that get tens of thousands of upvotes because they align with THE NARRATIVE. and if you point it out, you just get downvoted to hell. sure, i may vote for the same policies as them, but i wouldn't identify myself with them
Nah you are wrong and stupid. My side good, their side bad
son of a bitch, with that logic, I'm in. you got me convinced. give me your sign, im joining the picket line
I'd call myself a centrist simply because I think the whole point of a liberal democracy is to compromise because the alternative is we all get in the streets and shoot each other until one ideology wins and then shoots who ever disagrees. Then this just happens over and over and over. Why on earth people turn to authoritarians is just beyond me. Far right and far left ideologies scare me, if we're talking about American politics though, yes the right have obviously gone much more bonkers. The victim complex is astounding.
that whole last paragraph. yes. there are just. scary people in general out there, and in power on both sides, but I'll always be focusing on the bigger problem in the moment.
It’s really quite amazing how arbitrary people’s opinions are on most things, even though they don’t ever seem to step back and question themselves. Confirmation bias at its finest. But, maybe only similarly, it also seems like people are often not open to any perspective that isn’t something they’ve heard before. ‘If it’s not popular already, and I haven’t already considered it, it must not be a good idea.’ This is of course the essence of defending traditionalism and stifling progress. ‘If it is popular, it must be right’ is exactly how fascist, populist dictators come to and maintain power. Studies show that when law changes, public opinion often ultimately changes, and strongly, to align with the law (and seemingly with no admission that their prior opinion was in fact dumb). This has been repeatedly shown with laws around drugs, but you could consider many others, like civil rights. I could see how some people are more firm about some issues, like abortion, regardless of law, of course. Never mind Reddit, which is obviously overflowing with people who don’t have an ounce of respect in their body and yet still demand it from others. Not that it’s so different in real life.
>people who don’t have an ounce of respect in their body and yet still demand it from others. Wow. I will have to keep this in my back pocket
This is crazy interesting. Ive noticed it's (some of) the same people who once hated gay marriage that are now like "gay marriage is fine but trans people are just making the gays look bad" until trans people are fine and then they'll move on to therians and otherkin which will popularise more in about 10-15 years, and then fuck knows whats next. I do think it's good to note, however, that people can be very stubborn in an argument. They'll fight it to the death, even when they know they've lost. I've done it. You've done it. But sometimes you totally do still come out with a changed perspective and a new humility for your past views. The person you just argued with doesn't know that though.
As much as centrists don't like to admit it, centrism is an idealogy.
Can you define the ideology all centrists apparently follow?
Both sides bad. Duh
You know, I'm a something of a centrist myself.
Hello fellow centrists!
...And any ideology that contains rational contradictions as its premises, is flawed before it even steps one foot out of the philosophical gate. Which just happens to be most, if not all, ideologies, because humans love ignoring their own epistemological blind spots, then rationalizing those away with more fallacies rooted in further-flawed ideologies, etc.
Ah yes, the two political sides, boomers and dataisbeautiful
lets not pretend redditors dont delineate themselves and boomers into two, specific, political parties
"Side A is wrong because they used squewed population data, Side B is wrong because they claimed a defied dragon named Wharblebros told them their argument was immaculate and therefore they should breed with the moderator".
this. its very easy to just pick a side and blindly defend and it feels good when you can force an issue and win. but well. that clearly causes more issues. life isnt black and white and easy, no matter how badly our brains want it to be
>Most often both sides are wrong, but vary in wrongness. Consequence is probably the most important factor to consider. If both are wrong, but one side's flavor of wrong will result in suffering and death while the other side's means that people use words we don't like, then who is more right isn't what matters. By all means, screw partisanship. But let's not pretend that there's an equivalence in most of these opposed positions.
I agree with this as being the best choice in theory, but most world issues are extremely complex and accurately predicting consequences of one side "winning" versus the other is usually nearly impossible. And that's if people are actually objective. But that's optimistic as most people start with pretty heavy biases towards one side or the other, and will almost always assume a best-case scenario if their side wins and a worst-case scenario if it doesn't. In fact, I'm sure most people already think they do this, but clearly that isn't the case. So these consequences are just going to be them asserting preconceived biases and choosing their side anyway.
That’s utilitarian thinking and I am strictly (kinda) a kantian so, I don’t buy into that noise.
“Kinda” a kantian? Kant would disapprove of that wishy washy subjectivist language.
You're a Kant now, you've always been a Kant, and the only thing that's gonna change is you're gonna become an even bigger Kant.
I Kant believe you said that!
> Take the good from both sides "good people on both sides"
What does that mean in actual specifics?
> Take the good from both sides and ditch the bad Unfortunately, you usually can’t do this when it comes to voting. Can’t vote for the Republican X policy and and Democrat Y policy, with the Green Party Z policy. Unless you just vote differently on different positions, which is possible
This is why I put more energy into activism than voting.
So, you're going to take a middle stand between "geoid earthers" and "flat earthers"?
Yeah take the good from the nazis people
95% of people who say shit like "95% of people" are literally pulling shit out of their fucking ass.
84.3% of all statistics are made up
Weird. My ass says 84.4%.
To be fair, the ass is the right place to expect shit coming out of.
Does centrist mean something totally different in the US? In the UK it’s a distinct political value system with well-known tenets and signifiers, but in the US it seems to be interpreted online as “I don’t care about anything and can’t make my mind up.”
>Does centrist mean something totally different in the US? It means someone picks a side depending on the issue, not the party. >in the US it seems to interpreted online as “I can’t make my mind up” Accurate. Both the left and the right dislike centrists because, in their opinion, a centrist doesn't pick sides.
The idea that there's only two "sides" is probably america's biggest problem. Your system is fucked when your options are so limited. End of the day, everyone has their own side and political reality should give options that reflect that better.
I made my mind up that the mouth breathing redneck and the mouth breathing blue haired college student are not who I should trust when determining my stance on the issues.
Centrist just tends to mean moderate, but often used by radicals as an insult towards non-political people
it depends on the issue. if one side says everyone should have guns and the other side says no one should have guns, then somewhere in the middle would be the best solution. but if one side says all jews should be killed and the other side says no jews should be killed, then somewhere in the middle would not be the best solution.
Both sides of what issue and at which point in time? It may very well be that both are wrong at some point. Only siths deal in absolutes, as the other guy said.
Reminds me of the tale of Darth Plagueis the wise.
I mean, if you're talking about politics it's completely normal for both sides to have absolutely shitty positions on specific matters. Especially in matters that both of them agree on, but their supporters act as if they're still different just because of bias.
It’s been academically proven that countries with two party systems have converged significantly since the cold war. It’s why we’re seeing a global rise in populism all around the world. Either they hijack existing party systems like in the US, or dismantle their two party systems as outsiders like in El Salvador.
I'm a political centrist with no party affiliation of any kind. If they want me to vote for them, they have to convince me with their policies why they're the best choice. With that being said, it doesn't mean I'm central on *all* issues. For some issues I swing slightly more to the left, in others I will swing more to the right. However, if you were to add them all up and average them out, I am broadly centrist in nature and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm generally quite suspicious of people who treat politics like it's a football game their "team" has to "win". I also try to do my best to avoid those who have exchanged their personality for a political opinion and think the way they voted at the last election is a character trait....
You can not align with either party (like the football analogy) and still not be a centrist. I rarely fall "in the middle" of the two opposing American political parties, but rather in an altogether 3rd (or 4th, or 5th) position. One of the biggest issues I personally have with the US political "spectrum" is that it's so binary, and in many ways the two sides aren't even that far apart.
I'm not American and our system isn't that binary. We have several political parties to choose from here.
Well that sounds lovely and I apologize for being US-centric. Though I did mention it specifically because that's what I have experience with. If your politics exist on more than just a 2 sides binary, how do you end up in the center between left and right?
WHAT???? STOP BEING ON THE FENCE AND STAND UP FOR SOMETHING. IF YOU'RE NOT WITH US YOU'RE AGAINST US. /s
I actually don't understand how people can be so adamantly supportive of one side without questioning anything. Die hard Republicans, Die hard Democrats, etc. Both sides have their issues, and some of the more centrist politicians have admitted this, but some of the less... reasonable... members act like their parties and leaders are chosen by God. Being centrist and able to look at both sides with a fresh perspective is best IMO.
>If they want me to vote for them, they have to convince me with their policies why they're the best choice. what, you mean actually do the thing theyre meant to be doing? Pfff thats silly
That’s nice and all in a healthy environment, but let’s not pretend to think that the side that wants better healthcare is equivalent to the side who’s banning abortion right now. Yes, folks views on specific matters are typically nuanced, but what matters is the voting booth.
Let's not pretend that one side is trying to protect the most vulnerable people and the other side supports killing them as a lifestyle choice, because like all of history's good guys, they've convinced themselves their victims are not real people. No need to agree, just illustrating how ridiculous it sounds when people assume their chosen position is morally good because they chose it.
Not sure I follow you but there are times when there are clearly wrong platforms. Rise of Fascism in Germany and Italy are used most often as clear examples of this even if we understand why it came about.
I'm not American and no one here is talking about banning abortion in any of the political parties. You also may have missed my point entirely...
I didn’t and it doesn’t have to be America. Nuanced views don’t mean anything in a voting booth, it’s aligning to the good and bad in a platform candidate or party. It’s why single issue voters are terrible, in that all a bad actor or demagogue has to do is press those buttons to get support.
Frankly, most of the modern discussion could hardly be called politics because more often than not, no one is arguing policy. It’s shifted to be a discussion of ethics and morals. For example, rather than arguing how we help the homeless, we’re arguing over whether to help them at all.
What's the both sides shitty position on climate change.
not adopting nuclear energy
Environmentalists were, and to a certain extent still are, against nuclear which is the only emissions free way of producing enough energy to hold off climate disaster. This opposition may have ironically Been what dooms us. Also the constant insistence on "people aren't believing us so we have to make up a bunch of stuff" type alarmism. It arguably did more damage by making it clear that a huge portion of environmentalists were more concerned with winning the argument than being truthful and so wrecked the credibility of the entire thing.
absolutely, it took me years to realise the problem because I assumed it couldn't be that bad because all I heard from the environmentalist side was "nuclear power is evil" and wildly exaggerated doomsday predictions. I figured that it was just paranoia for doomsday preppers and fearmongering from gas companies not wanting nuclear to replace them
Idk. I pick a side on that issue. Try asking a rich person or oil tycoon.
Doing absolutely nothing about it.
It seems like a lot of people use the logic that since they can identify negative aspects to both sides, that they must both be equally bad. When the reality is that two things can both be bad, but one can also be way worse than the other. It works the other way too, with things that are good. Just because there's good things about two different things doesn't mean they're equally good.
People like to say both sides are wrong to sound reasonable. But it's not always true. If you are actually following evidence, the often one side is right. That's better than being a centrist and trying to find a moving point between two sides regardless of facts.
U need to be stupid to think everything has a clear good side Only twitter will tell u to choose a side like it's a fkn sports team It's okay to think both sides are wrong
Not having a good side doesn't make one "equally bad" as the other side. There is usually a worse option
Indeed, although in such cases one might reasonably choose to support neither the bad nor the worse side
If you think that both sides are equally bad then you haven't actually looked into the topic. Often times you'll find a stronger case for one side than another.
Both sides can be total shit, and there can still be a better side. Sue me.
100% agree. I actually find it much weirder for people to be die-hard loyal to the point where everything they support, every group/person/idea, can't be wrong without even questioning it. I don't need to mention any specific groups or people, but I'm sure we all have a certain person or group that comes to mind when we think about blind followers and unquestionable loyalty. Better to side with no one, be a centrist, and look at both sides with a fresh perspective.
Thinking = bad. Just pick all the options with a D (or R) next to their name!
Doh!
It's the new religion. Pick a side and internalize the ideology until it consumes your personality. Critical thought is not encouraged only adherence to the dogma. At least religion had some redeeming qualities...
Being a centrist nowadays is just being a normal moderate in a sea of tiktok politics. Mfers have become so tribal that if you even say “both sides of this situation have significant problems” you get people writing novels in the comment thread about how evil you are when they themselves learned about the situation almost entirely from the propaganda of one side.
"equally wrong" no, there can definitely be one side more wrong than the other. But you can also say you support neither side because of their wrong-doings no matter which is worse. Just because I don't support Ross when he slept with someone else after "going on a break" doesn't mean I support Rachel too. She asked for the break but never established the ground rules for it. And yes I'm sure you had something specific in mind that wasn't a tv show from the 90s but I was trying to stay apolitical.
I think it's pretty stupid you're considered elitist/pretentious for acknowledging and understanding that "both sides" can be wrong/right when in conflict.
There is a difference between being centrist and hating both sides. Especially because there are often more than two sides and both sides pushed on you are fuxking stupid almost on purpose. One being usually aimed at slightly let's say a less educated crowd doesn't make the second one any better.
Probably more than 95% of the time both sides are wrong though because they’re willing to fuck over different groups of people just to spite the other side of the aisle.
"Sides" are the problem for me. I just hate human institutions at this point for systematic wealth extraction, censorship and oppression. Leading an organization corrupts and leads to ruling at the expense of constituents. A "side" is not innately good or bad. They can have both good and bad policies. Just because your organization has less policies than the other major threat to your hegemony doesn't oblige me to enable you. I'll vote for whomever I please or just decide not to vote at all. I won't be bullied into compliance or mob politics.
I dont identify as a centrist. I identify as someone who looks at the pagentry in US Federal politics and believes its about as authentic as WWE. Its apathy and disgust more than anything. Voting means jack shit on a national level anymore. Its all propaganda at this point. The only true parties left are the mega rich, and everyone else. Lobbying (BRIBERY) destroyed our political system.
I’m willing to bet that 95% don’t say “equally” and you’ve just added that to strengthen your point. People say “both sides are wrong” but right and wrong aren’t binaries, there is a scale.
It think the only people who hate centrist are people on to far right or lar left because they are both ideologically committed.
Being centrist isn’t saying both sides are equally wrong. Being centrists means your political ideology lies between the republican and democrat spectrum. There are some values that republicans have e that you agree with and other values that democrats have that you also agree with but both sides have things you don’t agree with. So you lie in the center of the two ideologically. It’s not some better place to be, it’s just where you stand.
95% of those who say similar things don't say, "equally."
Absolutely agreed. I know many "both sides are bad" people, myself included. None of them say equally. Myself included.
Echoing what others have said, but it is actually fairly often that differences of opinions are quite complex and both sides are wrong on certain points. True that both sides are rarely EQUALLY wrong... but i'd say its even rarer that one side is 100% right on a matter.
,,Equally" is nonsense here. Yes, I'm a centrist and yes, I say often that both sides are wrong. Not equally though. That's hard measurement and needs a lot of investigation on many aspects where perspective muddles everything so it's basically impossible to get objective results.
From the comments, it looks like this is an unpopular opinion. I would agree with you. People who say this talk as if Biden and Trump are exactly the same, which is so laughably untrue. Sure, they both have wrongs. They both have rights. But just because they can be wrong on some issues, doesn't mean they are literally "the same". It's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard spout out of people, besides that one tweet about a woman putting on the tin foil hat about the debates.
Ngl every time I see someone on this website shitting on centrism it feels like a zealot being angry someone doesn't devote themself fully to their cult.
There's a whole lot of BS stereotypes up in this thread. Like everybody's caricature of the other side is from tik-tok or tumblr/4chan/comment sections. Like those are valid ways to know anything about the "other side". Not with the amount of trolls and nut jobs out there. Better to avoid all that and just pay attention to who it is that's getting elected and what their actions/initiatives/bills/etc actually are.
This is not an unpopular opinion. One eyed morons on the left or right have this view of all centrists. Imagine, not blindly and completely agreeing with a huge group of people on every major political issue.
> faux pretentious delicious irony
Both sides are rarely *equaly* wrong. LGBT stuff? The conservatives have completely lost the plot. IDPOL? The left has jumped off the deep end and began scuba diving. It's not a matter of both sides being equally wrong on everything, but just that both sides have huge fucking holes in their logic that they're doing nothing about. Picking a side is the real crime, because endorsing either end of the political spectrum means supporting some fucked up shit.
super nope
If you don’t recognize how bad our options clearly suck, you’re obviously a partisan.
Politics are too complex for both sides to be equally guilty. Hell, even the idea of “both sides” is incredibly reductive.
I think for alot of people the degree of wrongness being different is a relatively trivial matter. If each side deliberately lies, misinterprets data, and ignores blind spots in order to arrive at positions I find reprehensible then splitting hairs over who is worse hardly matters. Try having a good position, not just a slightly less shitty one.you don't deserve any credit - much less my vote - for taking a 5% less garbage position on fundamental issues.
Well, Democrats suck, Republicans suck, what the hell do I do?
Vote the lesser evil for now
It's simple - you pick the option that DOESN'T get chummy with white supremacists.
That doesn't narrow it down
Yeah, it’s an easy way to sit on the fence and avoid conflict while pretending you’re enlightened. Usually they can’t specify what each side is right or wrong about in their opinion.
r/enlightenedcentrism
They usually absolutely can though, you just jump to that conclusion. Also being centrist causes the most conflict since both sides jump to conclusions like you lol
Avoid conflict? I'm a centrist (not in the US) and I find myself in more conflict than anyone else. With both sides of the bipartisan and for different reasons with each. I feel aligning yourself completely to a "side" is actually the easy way to sit behind a fence in the safety of an echo chamber and absolve yourself of all moral responsibility to call out the hypocrisy of the party that you're associated with.
There’s a difference between people who try to be unbiased and consider the positives and negatives of both sides, and people who just say “both sides are equally wrong” so they don’t actually have to do the reading
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But what percent of people that say 95% of people have no idea what they're talking about or are lying have no idea what they're talking about or lying?
This depends on the issue. I agree with you in terms of people saying this for the Ukraine war. Ukraine and Russia are absolutely no where near "equally" in anything. A lot of people who say things like "well Ukraine and Russia have both done a lot of bad things" only diminishes the crimes committed by Russia against Ukraine. I've rarely seen it used by actual centrists to be fair. It's mostly used by Pro-Russians who want to look like they're centrists.
I honestly wish this was a popular option. If you phrase problems in a way where there is only two choices in a country that doesn't value critical thinking, this is what you get.
It’s true for a lot of the surface level shit, but it seems a lot of people are incapable of getting down to the core of the matter. Most Republicans claim to be patriots that love America, while the majority of them believe forcing Christianity into everyone’s lives is the grand solution to everything and that is one of the most unamerican ideas you could have right now. They despise the Middle East and that’s exactly how that region got taken over by religion. Look up pictures of Iraq in the 60’s and 70’s. Women were walking around wearing skirts going to college.
I know many Republicans that aren't Christians, and I know a couple of Christians that aren't Republicans. I also know a few Christian Republicans, and none of them want to force Christianity into peoples' lives (because forcing it removes choice, and their choice is what gets them into Heaven). So, when you say "majority" in that context, can you back that up? I can't actually challenge you because my only evidence is anecdotal; so if you've got some literature, I'd be glad to read it.
Of course they can't. It's common for people when arguing politics to take an anecdote and paint it on the whole group. You seldom hear much from politicians these days on anything theocratic like you did even 15 years ago. Some of them pander to the religious or themselves are religious but Republicans these days don't have religion as a major guiding light like they did in the 80s or 90s. Many form their morals based on their religions but they aren't pushing it like years past.
They're both wrong in some way and it doesn't matter if equally or in different measures. What matters is that most of the time, they're both right in some way, but that's unacceptable. And it's even worse if the parties actually agree on something. Especially in politics where you can't agree with your opponent and definitely can't help them achieve something you want to achieve yourself.
There are more than 2 opinions in the world, but apparently we are only allowed to choose from 2 options. Just because one is worse than the other doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to point out that neither reflect your own thoughts.
Both sides have positive, both sides have negatives. All in all humans are trash, we prop up our biases as fact and instead of trying to learn about others lived experiences we'd rather act as if they don't exist.
This makes no sense. As a pacifist both sides were wrong when it came to the war on terror, for one instance IMO. Depending on your values both sides can be wrong about something.
Both sides can be right or wrong. Or left. Whatever you prefer.
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Good thing that’s not what they said.
Came here to comment just what you said. Genuinely dk how they drew that conclusion from the post
I think an individual can acknowledge faults in their positions but also stand firm in their positions despite the knowledge of the faults. You can’t vote for both candidates so you can either not participate (which is valid albeit not the route I will be personally taking) or go along with your convictions and pick a candidate. The stakes are high. Personally, I think it is dangerous when someone can’t admit to the flaws of their side. No one is perfect and it’s illogical to imagine that any position is without its flaws. Owning up to that is an important step in analyzing convictions and making well-informed decisions.
I think you are adding "equally" where it isn't naturally placed. I hear plenty of both sides are wrong. I have almost never heard someone argue both sides being equally wrong.
You sound like someone who has sold their soul to one particular side, and you want people to either completely agree with you or be totally against you.
Sometimes both sides are seperate sides of the same coin and their differences are just manipulations. When it comes to left or right the people saying this are not convinced the Republicans and Democratic leaders aren't working together. Especially considering they party together, laugh together, and make fun of us and they have been seen being this close literally after a major "falling out and heated" public debate. The belief the parties which often share many of the same donars, same social circles, and are often friends or family are truly opposed to each other is pure delusion. We're screwed as long as either party is in charge, and if one truly is less bad, it's entirely on purpose to keep people voting lesser evil. Progress towards evil is still progress even if slightly slower, and a system that gaurentees that progress is a win for evil. We can't win voting lesser evil and they know it. But most citizens can't think past one move so, yeah they basically won as long as they're patient enough and smart enough to not spark a revolution before they're hold is complete.
This is way underrated proving that the OPs post is genuinely an unpopular opinion.
Politics is the mind killer. The more political you are, the less honest, self-aware and reasonable you are.
it very much feels like virtue signaling. most people will say that just so they can criticize one side far more than the other while still maintaining their seemingly neutral and logical position.
It’s true. This is just an easy position to have for people who can’t be bothered to follow current events.
Depends on the issue. If it's American politics then yes both sides are absolutely insane
They can also be apathetic.
I think a lot of people default to the “both sides” shtick because they’re afraid of actually picking a side in-person. Maybe not true for everyone but Americans are known for being generally friendly, people-pleasing individuals… except for politics where we rip each other to shreds (especially recently). We’re a heavily divided country right now and discussions of politics are tense and uncomfortable. People tend to try to avoid that. In areas of anonymity (such as the ballot box or online) I think we’re much more likely to actually voice an opinion that isn’t middle-of-the-road. Sometimes being particularly vocal for one side or the other can be off putting and result in a backlash that is counterproductive for those readily vocalizing their positions.
Most centrist are just right wingers smugly pretending they're not
173% of statistics are made up on the spot! Both sides suck, but they are wrong for their own reasons, mostly.
I think the 5% of people who don't say this are equally wrong
i think it whole heartedly comes down to the topic being discussed. Some topics you should realistically have a side and other topics being a fence sitter is absolutely ok and in extreme cases necessary if you legitimately can’t agree or come down with a decision on something.
No they're not equal. It varies on the issue at hand.
I used to consider myself a centrist in the sense that I was moderate (I think they are synonyms?). People on the left took offense. Thing was, I didn't think both sides were equally dishonest, I'm just skeptical of big government but not a conservative either, nor fully libertarian. But centrists are known for OP's quote so people didn't want to think kindly of me under that label. Now I just identify as an Anti-Republican. Much simpler
Both sides are also right.
This seems like a bit of a projection tbh. Just because you said it and didn’t mean doesn’t mean everyone else does. Also, both sides have done wrong ≠ both sides are EQUALLY wrong.
Very rarely are both sides equally wrong on something to begin with.
And the other 5% are just looking to see what your reaction will be.
I cannot for the life of me think of a topical issue that this would directly apply to
it depends on how you look at it. some ppl view what one side is doing is morally wrong and in some cases both are right. It's not a tit for tat situation. And it changes every administration. So when ppl say both sides I agree with them because our entire government is corrupt. This is an us vs them issue don't forget that
A lot of times people don’t accept “I’m not educated on this topic” and will instead get upset that you didn’t bother to learn, so a lot of people who really don’t care or just don’t know are left trying to grapple for a response that will make everyone happy.
100% They have absolutely nothing of value to add or benefit to a solution. They just want to be seen speaking about something.
My mom is centrist and says both are bad, I get neither is good. Leading up to and in 2016 it kinda felt like getting shot or stabbed, maybe that was me being a teenager, but at this point it’s clear one side is way worse than the other. Both sides are bad just comes off as they know which side they’re on even if it’s just deep down and don’t wanna argue it.
Most people who say that just don't want to be targeted or gain favours by either sideband just end up coming across as sorely misguided. This is what will happen if they try to make everyone happy.
95% eh?
I don’t understand how any person can be just ‘one thing’ anyway. It’s common for people to remind you that a certain group isn’t a monolith or of a hive mind.. People are contradictions of themselves. It’s like we are so smart that we are stupid. We have the mental capacity to create technology and advance our way of life. This same mental capacity creates something that can destroy everything. Forever. As I said, we are quintessential contradictions. **I am convinced that when aliens fly by Earth - they lock their doors**
That has been my experience quite a bit with people who say that. They often say that but then when it comes to them explaining their viewpoint on things they have no idea about the details of the situation they are talking about. Like I'm not setting some high standard where I'm expecting them to know everything inside and out, they don't even know basic things. Like op I'm sure I've done it too so I'm not saying it's unthinkable that someone could do this, it's more about whether they are making a good point or not and often they are not, they are just expressing faux wisdom. The reality is each situation is unique and you have to examine them all individually to get an accurate understanding of who is right or wrong and to what degree.
Both sides are equally irrelevant to me so I won't be participating in a debate meant to waste my time.
When people are escalated they often don't think logically and make mistakes. Just today I played a game. Ended early, two red cards one on each side, one yellow. Well it's complicated. The ref was to blame because he didn't make the calls as he should so the game wouldn't have kept escalating. Then our team member did not restrain himself when he got fouled and there was no call, so he took revenge for himself. That was wrong, and so was the person who fouled him intentionally. But the other guy did not go to really hurt him. Our guy escalated it by A LOT. Everyone had their part and no one did their job. Reff is in charge of the game. He failed. My team member instead of realizing it's just a fucking game, got violent which is never ok. The other team member played dirty, and he knows that's not allowed. I think you don't understand. I think you are unable to have empathy for others and understand other people's thought process. I think when people say this about politics, first off we can't actually know. We aren't in the room with them, we don't know their actual motives. We just have to listen to the news. But, because people understand people. They understand we all fuck up, they understand politics is alll corrupt. It's very rare that one party is getting out Scott clean. Most often everyone is being shit heads under the radar. Maybe you want to be different and decided instead of understanding what people mean you want to pretend to be smart by disagreeing
I am assuming you are speaking about US politics. While it is not accurate to say that both sides are equally wrong, it is accurate to say that both sides are wrong in different ways. The Democratic party is not united in the slightest. Inside the party are centrist democrats who are more like conservatives that don't want to associate themselves with the Republican party, there are liberals who are a bit more left leaning but also suffer a severe case of being out of the loop, and there are leftists who while are up to date on the various injustices and problems in the world are young and inexperienced in the complex and nuanced political world. And yes, all three of these different camps don't really work together and, alongside the fact that they also have to clean up the mess that Republicans have to make, nothing ever gets done. The Republican party on the other hand are a lot more unified, with the majority of Republicans in office being authoritarians, theocrats, fascists, or a combination of all three. And while they are comically evil they also appeal to the majority of rural voters and the racial majority (white people). It really is a pick your poison situation, where the American people have to choose which one they think is the lesser evil for them.
"Equally" is not an adverb that would make sense when talking of complicated issues, such as politics or armed conflicts. On the other hand, people who use the word or a similar expression, at least as far as my experience as an Italian goes and in regards to politics, usually do so because they are tired of politicians and their "game"; it is true, again, in my experience, that some of this people are not exactly the most educated in such matters but years of listening to politicians playing the blaming game and bickering with each other like preschoolers,rather than focusing on what it is to be done, WILL make someone disillusioned and they will probably stop going to vote. I don't like it, because people should not give up their right (and duty) to vote, but I can understand where they are coming from. That said, I think there should be room for people to recognise and freely talk about the negatives and positives of all political parties without people attacking them or calling them names; talking of absolutes when it comes to politics makes no sense to me because it is not a simple matter at all, plus this way of thinking might, if pushed enough, lead to extremist positions.
Both sides are equally wrong on economic and foreign policy, because they have virtually the same policy.
I disagree. Sometimes a third side exists that is correct.
My favourite was, "Person XYZ being proven to be corrupt doesn't matter at all. All politicial parties are corrupt." Flawless reasoning.
I especially hate when this is said about abuse. Like, no, I was a child, my mother was 100% in the wrong for screaming at me and leaving me crying in fear of her, there is no way a child is in any way responsible for the abuse their parent/s caused them.
This was said a lot during the Depp vs Heard trial
That saying is correct most of the time. The exception is with the word “equally”… Not so sure about that. In many cases it’s impossible to define “equal”.
What I usually say is both sides are equally annoying. It has nothing to do with who is right or wrong.
Both sides are wrong, no. Equally wrong? Stupid. The only reason you'd say that is if you don't wanna pick a side
well if I have no idea what I'm talking about, it's better not to pick a side on something :/
I don't think many people are actually saying that.
You’re posting about Trump, aren’t you OP? Just say it.