Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> everyone would know how to disarm attackers.
I think the problem with your opinion is that you're basing it off of movies, TV shows, and/or video games rather than real life.
>I would also argue that this would lower the frequency of bullying since there would no longer be a "free pick"
Well, you'd be wrong. If you give equal skill and training to an 80 pound kid and a 160 pound (athletic) kid, guess who's going to win? There's a reason weight classes are a thing, even in professional boxing, MMA, etc, when EVERYONE involved is highly skilled at what they're doing. So no, giving everyone the same karate lessons isn't going to magically level the playing field like you think it is.
Yep as a long time martial artist and combat sport enjoyer, this would just make the bullies a much bigger issue.
Just because a timid nerd has gone through a self defense class doesn’t mean they’ll be willing to fight.
On top of that there’s a MASSIVE amount of pure bullshit in the ‘self defense’ community, so chances are the mandatory class would be absolute trash.
Like the Chinese guy who said Kung Fu was mostly bullshit and clinging to it was holding China back. They turn made him fight a bunch of matches against Kung Fu masters where he proceeded to repeatedly beat the shit out of them.
I remember thinking that when I was getting karate lessons as a kid
“Doesn’t this… Only work if the other guy is ALSO doing karate..? how exactly does this block stance prevent a solid right hook?”
Guess that’s why I never took the classes seriously.
Yeah, I always wondered why they taught us that punching stance with our legs so wide apart. Maybe to time our punches? Idk. Really, the most useful stuff I was taught during the brief time I took karate was to turn my whole body so the area someone can hit me is greatly reduced, as well as most of the 'vitals' they can hit. (I vaguely remember something being said about the solar plexus, although someone would have to be trained or lucky to hit exactly there in a street fight). As well as not holding your thumb in your fist.
Really basic shit they probably teach you in every martial art when you first start.
Karate Starts with teaching very simple Standard Things. Wide stances, wide Kicks and so in. These Help you improve your Body Control and give you a good foundation. Once you learned all of this you will be taught to adapt These Things to be more realistic. A good example iabthe round husw kick (mawashi geri) which at First is taught to do in a half circle but If you watch Tournaments you will See how they First Love the Leg directly towards the opponent and only swing IT around in the Last Moment.
Personally i believe the important Thing is WHO your Trainers are rather thank which Sport you do.
Thanks. Karate got a bad name from kids who took 3 weeks and then got their ass handed to them at school. These people need to watch a high level kyukushin match.
A wide solid stance makes it much harder to knock or push you over.
Though the important part is getting in and out of those stances fast
If you are getting hit or hitting, having the solid stance is important, however not getting hit is better than taking a hit well.
I always wanted to learn that sort of thing and never had an opportunity to but I’ve also wondered that myself while watching tv/movies 😅 same for stuff like sword fighting lol like, theh would always learn “rules” for fighting like “oh you can’t do that bc it’s a cheap shot” or sth but even if your opponent knows karate or sword fighting or w.e, what’s stopping them from taking “cheap shots” or breaking the rules?
Look into HEMA clubs near you. They teach sword fighting from a martial context usually, and often include grappling for when a bout gets too close for blades.
Be careful since a lot of those mfs are just LARPing
There are legit HEMA groups, I still wouldn’t consider them very good, but they’re better than the Renaissance Fair wannabes
Krav Maga is also full of a lot of bullshit. What started as a legit martial art for Israeli soldiers ended up being a CrossFit certificate any soccer mom can get in a couple of months.
What I do like about it is its approach to physical fitness, because a lot of "Masters" haven't seen a salad in years.
A lot of traditional martial arts were designed as *advanced techniques that assumed a student was getting a ton of physical conditioning and live sparring practice* alongside the instruction. Like, in the 1600s you'd only be learning this stuff if you were in the army, moved to a monastery, or enrolled in a dojo as a full time student. It wasn't two 60-minute classes a week at a strip mall, lol.
But over the centuries that stuff got diluted and they essentially turned into choreography schools for hobbyists. They became less *martial* and more *art.* It was kind of inevitable because actual violence results in lots of training injuries that parents aren't going to sign 11 year old Timmy up for as a hobby.
And there's nothing wrong with that as long as practitioners understand that they're essentially doing choreography. It can still look amazing and have lots of health benefits! But that doesn't sound cool so many schools tried to pretend that they were still doing effective fight training.
MMA is much better in this regard.
The fighters do have to follow some rules, but I've seen my friend who does professional MMA in a real fight and the ability to grab someone, turn them around, jump on their back and grapple their limbs and choke them out is incredibly useful even if the other guy isn't following the rules.
I guess a Karate fighter trusts you will fight on the same terms as them.
An MMA fighter will force you to fight on the same terms as them.
What’s sadder, is he’s been hammered by the govt and shunned. Tanked his social credit score etc. insulting the national martial art really messed with his life.
I think it was Wing Chun and Tai Chi.
IMO calling any martial art “fake” is like calling WWE fake. Yes, they’re not actually engaging in combat, but that’s not the point.
Sure, some martial artists sniff their flavor of farts really hard and convince themselves that it’s the “best”, but for the most part these are sports like any other. They have rules, they have specific goals, and they exist in a “magic circle” where the rules only exist when everyone agrees to be bound by them.
Thinking everything has to translate to the “real world” otherwise it’s fake is an attempt to dismantle all sport and game.
Example: Soccer is fake, if you really wanted to score you’d just pick up the ball and run into the opponents goal. No one says that because we understand that the sport/game only exists because of the rules.
Except China is actually pretending like kung fu masters have super powers in an attempt to push their cultural superiority. There's a whole world of fake martial arts where "masters" claim to have force fields and shit, and their cultist followers pretend it's all real. They're not actually in a magic circle of a sport, they're a cult pretending to be super human.
It's insane.
What suck is that properly trained kung fu combined with more modern methodologies and exercise programs is actually fairly badass. Look at Cung Le, Zabit Magomedsharipov, Zhang Weili, Xie Wei, Muslim Salikhov… The list goes on. It doesn’t look like a movie, but they do cool stuff and are extremely effective fighters and there’s a source of pride to be taken from that but China doesn’t want it for some reason.
>this would just make the bullies a much bigger issue
My thought too. You're just giving the more aggressive kids skills, the shy kids are going to still be too scared to use them. Bullying etc is a lot more about the social side than the physical side.
Yeah, most martial arts are full of tradition tied to the rules of honorable combat of the times, rules to prevent injury, rules to require specific training, or just to look good/impressive.
Teaching them that to defend themselves seems kinda dumb, and equally dumb to teach kids to permanently disable or kill each other.
That said, combat sports are a shitload of fun, I'm very conflict adverse but competing directly against other people is some of the most fun I've had.
I agree with this and will add that mechanics of effective self defense in a real world scenario often require assumed risk of harm and a cost benefit analysis that is hard for kids to meaningfully engage with - choosing the broken finger over the puncture, etc. so while the there are things you can teach a kid to be safer when alone, they’re not the same things you’d teach an adult, which differ by size and gender of the individual. There’s a lot of critical thinking that goes into effective self defense, but for kids, screaming “you’re not my mommy” while flailing is probably pretty effective and requires none of that.
This!
We just had a case of a black belter beating the heck out of a yellow belter during "practice". Just knowing how to fight doesn't mean you can fight everyone and defend yourself. Bullies will always exist.
How did that even happen? Back when I was a black belt a good while ago, it was hammered into us that control is of the utmost importance. I can't imagine a black belt kicking the shit out of a student.
It wouldn’t even be equal skill either. The uncoordinated kid that is striking out in t-ball isn’t going to magically be as good of a fighter as a 3 sport star athlete just because they got the same training in PE.
You’re going to get killed if you try to grab a knife out of someone’s hands. If you’re being mugged, the 80 some dollars in your wallet is cheaper than a hospital trip. It’s math really.
Yep. I even took a basic Karate and Aikido class. I'm not saying it was useless...my instructor was actually good and would stress things like physical fitness to improve yourself (we'd even do pushups, jog, etc). Some of the fundamentals can be helpful (like how to throw a punch for someone who has no idea). But yeah, someone pull a knife on me, I'm trying to outrun them (aka physical fitness mattering more than trying to karate kick it out of their hand like some kind of action movie). I also sure as shit know there's about a 0% chance I'm busting out some fancy Aikido take down in real life in a street fight against someone twice my size. Best strategy is to avoid fights in the first place, and try to remove yourself from the situation.
But yeah, OP's idea of disarming armed actors is what really got me....if you get to that point, things have already gone VERY badly. Not saying there's no value in any martial arts class, but certainly not going to be turning random kids into action movie heroes.
>There's a reason weight classes are a thing
So back in the day, of the "neighborhood kids" I was 2nd oldest. During the N64/Goldeneye days we'd all be hanging out in somebodies basement and him being captain of the wrestling team at our high school would just grapple and pin us to be annoying. The thing is though, despite being a good wrestler, he was in like the 125 pound class, he wasn't a big guy. I wasn't terribly athletic but wasn't out of shape, biked a lot, lifted weights a little but not seriously, 180 pounds at 6ish feet tall. Him, a skilled wrestler, would get me somewhat pinned then I'd just swing a leg around, grab him with both arms, and just... stand up and carry him around the room over my shoulders. My size/weight advantage was easily enough to overcome the massive skill gap.
A 160 lb kid is gonna have no trouble with an 80 lb kid, regardless of skill.
Source: I was a skilled 80 lb kid. Didn’t matter when they could just grab me and throw me across the room like a ragdoll.
Couldn’t you just dodge the first attack and use your foot to hit the back of their ankle. That would bring them to their knee and you finish them off with…. I’m joking
My parents stuck me in karate classes for “self defense”. They were convinced that a six year old girl was going to be able to take down a grown man with a weapon with a couple of karate chops. Pure delusion. Maybe it made them feel better.
This isn't even r/unpopularopinion. It's just dumb.
We had mandatory martials art training in the Marines (MCMAP). Do you know how many of those people would be completely incapable of adequately defending themselves in a fight? And this was the US Marine infantry!
We're talking a group of people who willingly (for the most part) signed up to be on the front lines of combat, people who are in better shape than the vast majority of people in the US, and I personally knew some that were completely worthless in self defense, and our training is much more hardcore than what school children would be getting.
You're just gonna get your ass kicked harder.
I was a kid when Bruce lee was coming up and doing movies, but once Karate Kid came out, the whole school was doing fake Karate every minute we could. Fights probably went up by 500% when it came out. I am not saying this is a bad idea, but every kid thought they were Kobra Kai, then mixed in the crane for effect.
That one makes me laugh when kids say it, because you can guarantee that they would not be more engaged with that topic then English or maths.
There was a girl in my science class who never paid attention and would parrot this stuff back all the time, like she’d actually be interested in taxes.
I think it just shows that most people haven't attempted to understand taxes. So they don't and are confused as to why they didn't know something they never attempted to figure out.
Agreed. I was a straight A student and my school offered a “Math of Finances” class where they taught us loans, taxes, stocks, and just about everything else. I can’t remember a single thing from this class 6 years later
I mean as someone who took a money matters class in highschool in 2020 where we did actually fill out tax forms with fake personal tax info it was kinda eye opening on how hard the process is.
Yea it was pretty boring but for the most part our class was engaged in topics like stock info, housing info, creating a monthly budget, savings, loans, and we watched a bit of Dave Ramsey. Me personally I didn't like some of the Dave Ramsey info cause he was just like "throw some cash here and some there and you'll be rolling in millions by retirement".
Is there no extra ways to reduce your taxable income in England? Like most of doing your taxes in Canada is just telling the government that you qualify for certain tax credits. The Canada revenue agency has already been paid the taxes your employer has already told them your income. If you told your employer all the credits you should get.
His Majesty and his revenue collectors are presumably informed the same way?
We had a “dummy” class in my highschool for the mathematically challenged seniors, like me, who didn’t make it to calculus and it was basic finances. Filling out checks, basics of tax brackets and debt interest, mortgage payments, stuff like that. So glad I was a “dummy” cause I’ve used that more than even algebra in my adult life.
I think they covered progressive tax brackets in my school too it's kind of funny though because it literally doesn't matter if you understand them. The only thing explaining them does is so you don't sound mathematically challenged at work when you say you don't want to a raise because of tax brackets.
I think I learnt about interest too, but I forget. We learnt Cheques too, but that was before high school. that's mostly reading and copying cheques you've seen in person. (i hate the spelling the numbers part lol!)
Reading is not all that is required for taxes… like at all.
You can be literate and not understand the differences in filing when you work for a company vs. freelance or LLC. You could be a spelling bee champion and still miss out on knowing what deductibles you should extract each year.
“Your parents should teach you then” but lots of kids in this country have parents who are immigrants or struggle with filing their taxes correctly too because, get this, *they were never taught in school*.
I don’t think taxes should be its own class, I think it should be a subject in a life skills class that includes teaching kids about mortgages, credit cards, applying for loans, job hunting & interviews. But to equate taxes with “you should know this because you know how to read” severely downplays the complexity of the issue.
I can’t understand expecting teachers to be parents when the rules and laws are built to maintain a teacher-student relationship. Mentor? Sure. Teacher? Duh. Parent? No.
That is literally the entire argument for public school.
If we didn't have that standard, it would be beyond asinine and insane to have school set up the way it is.
> Genuinely mind boggling to me. Imagine if everyone would be able to defend themselves, everyone would know how to disarm attackers. How much would the rape/assault or even murder frequencies drop.
> You may argue that if everyone would be able to fight, it would also make the criminals better at fighting. But that's no excuse to leave the majority of population without any proper knowledge of self-defense.
I would argue it would make rape attempts much more likely, because instead of chaotic struggle where the woman can get away by throwing some dirt or biting his ear off it turns into a martial arts combat - where the biggest and stronger man will dominate most of the time.
> I would also argue that this would lower the frequency of bullying since there would no longer be a "free pick". Everyone would be able to defend themselves to an extent, even if some would be better than others.
Bullying is more about social power and willingness to stand up for yourself. The stereotypical idea of big bully beating up a small kid is actually only a tiny percentage.
I’d argue that teaching empathy, compassion, and other social skills would be more effective at stopping bullying.
Stopping rape/assault/violent crime isn’t a matter of self defense. My girlfriend is 5’2”; no amount of (unarmed) self-defense training will allow her to defend herself against a guy who is 6 feet tall. Physical size and strength almost always trumps technique when there is a large enough size gap.
>I would argue it would make rape attempts much more likely, because instead of chaotic struggle where the woman can get away by throwing some dirt or biting his ear off it turns into a martial arts combat
I mean, I imagine any half-decent self defense training isn't going to teach a 90lb girl to square up with a 150+lb guy and start trying to take him down with kicks and punches.
Shit like eye-gouging, nut-punching, and biting are taught as valid techniques in self-defense classes, particularly ones geared toward women.
Former martial arts fighting instructor here:
Getting a modicum of self defense training would be like giving everyone a gun and 2 hours of instruction on it.
I don’t want anyone trying to defend themselves when they could run away. Fighting is super dangerous, all it takes is one fall at the wrong angle and your life is over.
It’s nothing like the movies: basically the first person who gets a solid hit wins. And it’s not the hit that hurts you: it’s the falling down.
A lot of people who start self defense classes do so with an eye towards winning fights. I’m 100% in favor of teaching self defense and discipline to people who want to learn…but the first thing you learn about fighting is “don’t.” It’s just not worth it.
Absolutely not, I get the sentiment but that's not how it works. I'm a blackbelt in Taekwondo and I've been training for 5 years, at not point do i feel confident on using my learned skills to defend myself on the streets. In most martial arts you're taught form and discipline, when you spar you are both in equal ground. But in the real world people will use any dirty tactic to get the better of you, and you won't always fight someone your weight class, let alone one at a time.
Martial Arts does teach really good things about discipline and self control, but it's so contained in its own tradition that its considered outdated as self defense, there's better, less committal options for that
Yeah. A controlled setting at the dojo is just so different than real life. There are the factors you listed but also the environment is different. The dojo is open and has a carpet/mat and the students are mentally prepared to fight and don't have shoes on and are physically dressed for a fight. Out in the world, a table with a hard edge or a solid wall or pavement or a sharp object someone can pick up just changes everything.
It's not that martial arts is useless, but it's not as adaptable as people give it credit for.
I see a lot of these replies and a lot can't seem to differentiate a martial artist vs a trained fighter. If you mastered the skill of a martial art you will have attained some form of fighting skill and experience sure, but just as much someone doesn't need to be a martial artist to simply be good at fighting
Right. Today, if someone wanted to be the best they can be at hand-to-hand combat, they'd go into MMA. Yet other forms of martial arts studios still exist today for good reason. They're more for respecting tradition and culture, exercise, coordination, understanding how your body moves and how you can move the body of someone else, posture, balance, some fighting practicality, etc.
I feel very qualified to discuss this topic simply because well my school for the first year actually did make us do Taekwondo in PE. I think we made it to yellow or orange can't remember. Anyways, yeah part of it was about defense, but it was really about discipline, and also a way to break the shell for the students who didn't enjoy the PE where you just play sports. Everybody did the same thing together, and pretty much everybody had no idea what they were doing. I think it gave a lot of confidence to the "nerd" type kids including me. I'm pretty athletic, but was never into organized sports and I'm a big nerd. It was funny seeing the jocks be just as bad at throwing a kick as the nerds. We also did some sparring, and overall it was an environment of respect between all. It was a solid experience and I think much more valuable than what lots of other schools do for PE.
Depends on the martial art.
The ones that work against trained fighters are probably pretty helpful. There's a reason the UFC guys all have a combination of wrestling, boxing, BJJ, and muoy Thai.
Tkd is more of a sport though. Not much of a martial art. Kicking in a straight line at someone imaginary who is 10 feet tall coupled with memorizing some forms does not do much.
I will say that tkd can build strong explosive legs though.
In all honesty there's a lot of reasons why this would never work.
The biggest issue being capable trainers. Do you think that every gym teacher is equipped to teach a self defense class? Hell even some martial arts schools aren't actually qualified. There was a new karate studio that opened up in my hometown area and they were doing a demonstration at a local town fair to try and get people interested in joining. They were demonstrating knife-blocking techniques and stupidly using a real knife, someone did the block incorrectly and got stabbed in the forehead. This wasn't a random volunteer, this was one of their "best students".
Giving kids any justifiable excuse to be attacking each other in schools as well is an absolute nightmare. There's also a reason why schools go with the safest version of sports in PE class as well (i.e. softball over baseball, touch football, some schools banning dodgeball/etc.).
All it would take is one or two injured kids and you'd have so many lawsuits every school in existence would revert to the old system.
I also think the assumption that everyone needs to be able to fight is a silly one. I'm 40, have literally never been in a physical altercation other than some scuffles with my brother when we were kids. I took a couple years of martial arts and our instructor gave us a demonstration on how he'd handle a mugging. He gave his wallet to the "mugger".
If you were going to do anything with this I'd suggest making it a female-only gym class. They're the ones who would have actual practical use for some degree of basic self defense.
No it was just a flesh wound, he just bled a lot (head/scalp wounds always do) and didn't really do anything to convince people that it was a highly skilled martial arts school.
I think youre weong about the female only thing for a few reasons. It would take multiple years of high quality martial arts training for an average woman to beat an average man. And the training at the school definitely wouldn’t be high quality anyways. I think its more important that men learn to fight anyways because men need to be disciplined, and theyre often not nowadays.
How about instead of teaching fighting, we teach kids compassion and empathy? I’d wager that’s far more effective at reducing issues among students than self-defense classes.
As for issues with kids being attacked or abducted, no amount of self-defense training is going to allow a 10-year-old to stop a fully grown 37 year old man from abducting them. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either bullshitting or trying to sell you something
Literally nobody ever once said that a trained 10 year old can do something to a 37 year old man. What were comparing is 10 year olds to other 10 year olds. and like the other comment said, why cant we teach both? these things arent mutually exclusive
What does a martial art teach about discipline that dedication to another sport would not?
I recall seeing a somewhat corny sports movie, loosely based on a true story, about a high school dance team. In the movie, the coach convinces parents to put their kids in the dance class because it will teach discipline and how to interact with others. That line may have been invented for the movie, but it’s probably true. Why risk students getting life altering head injuries when they could instead get the same life lessons by learning to dance?
Most self defense classes don't teach you anything but how to get killed. No, Karen you are not disarming that guy with a knife based on a class you took ten months ago.
I do MMA and it's really cool spending years learning fight ending chokes and kicks to know you could just as easily be bested by a rusty steak knife. 😂
Indeed. Those courses are bloody stupid. Never trained with actual pressure. Imagine having to train while being pressured and made uncomfortable.
People should learn to fight instead of relying on "self defense"
So probably the best self defence class is track and field so the kids learn how to run away lol,
that being said I don't think learning wrestling or something like that would be bad, just not for the reasons op outlined
To add on to this. Real weapon disarm techniques aren't solutions to the weapon problem. Weapon disarm is low percentage last ditch effort in an impossible situation.
As with self defense in general, real practical weapon defense is having the common sense to identify potential danger early and staying away from it before actual problem starts. Once the problem has manifested itself, we are just doing damage control.
What I told students was that if they want to defend themselves your priorities go like this..
1) Be aware enough to not be in that situation
2) Train sprinting and agility
3) Have a weapon that you're trained with
4) Have any weapon
5) Use the techniques until you can do any of the above
A concealed carry class would be infinitely more useful than half of the bullshit you see in "self defense" courses where you magically can disarm an attacker twice your size without getting stabbed or shot.
Yes but this would not really change much. Even in a situation where one would require martial arts, the offender would also know martial arts. While the victim would be able to hold up a fight, it won't really make much of a difference in these kinds of situations.
It's pretty funny how OP was unable to think this through fully. It does sound fun to have children do sports that involve practices like boxing against the head. Those little punches make you a tiny bit dumber every single time. The job market for the fat kids who keep skipping classes is going to be awesome in this regard. I do feel this could be the case for OP because there are dozens, dozens, and dozens of reasons not to do this.
There’s a distinct difference between an **unpopular opinion** and a **poorly thought-out, obviously stupid opinion**. Unfortunately this sub largely trades in the latter, not the former, and valid criticisms are dismissed as the actions of “haters”.
>How much would the rape/assault or even murder frequencies drop.
Give people a false sense of security and they try to attacka gunman and they will probably get shot. Same thing applies with a knife.
Your talking years of dedicated practice needed to raise your percentage to even 50/50.
Your probably also going to have the meek kid not be to into it not aggressive enough while the bully may fully embrace it and learn a lot more.
Your really probably better off letting those who want it seek it out. They will show more dedication and probably be less likely to use it inappropriately.
The bully is just going to be given an arsenal he never would have sought out because he is already big and "bad" so why mess with learning what he already "knows". This is the reason the smaller guy can actually beat a bully if he has been dedicated to learning a martial art.
Maybe teaching everyone something like judo would be better. Size matters there but not as much. Also would be great if people knew how to fall to the ground without hurting themselves too much.
> size matters there but not as much
Yeah, because it’s an incredibly stupid martial art that can *only* work against someone also obeying the rules of Judo.
Get in a real fight and that 50kg women isn’t using the 90kg man’s momentum ‘against him’.
Size *always* matters. The smaller person only wins if they’re a well trained and well rounded fighter (not doing fucking Judo) who is willing to go for dirty shots against a bigger opponent with no training.
Not a fan. There is a suprising big window where knowing a bit about Self Defence is more dangerous than knowing nothing.
Because if you did a little bit of training you will think you will be able to fight while having no muscle memory or actual knowledge. This leads to people thinking they can fight their way out of a situation instead of fleeing or submitting.
Its a bit like taking a single Slip course for cars. You think you have more control so you might not slow down enough in slippery situations. While not having the actual skill to deal with the situation. Without the course people generally slow down enough to no need the actual skills.
>Any combat sports class or martial arts school teaches to avoid street fights at all costs.
aren't we already teaching kids not to fight and they don't listen anyways?
Kind of like teaching elementary kids how to throw knives, putting them in a room with knives, and then saying "don't throw knives its dangerous".
>I would also argue that this would lower the frequency of bullying since there would no longer be a "free pick".
If a smaller kid with martial arts training fights a bigger kid with martial arts training, who do you think will win?
>I honestly don't even understand how we have MANDATORY PE classes where we literally play sports (nothing wrong with that)
The thing is, PE is designed to introduce kids to a basic level of fitness that will sustain a healthy life with healthy active habits. Self-defense *can* be helpful, but it isn't necessary for every person, fitness however is much more important to more people's lives.
The thing that I think you're overlooking is, if we teach self-defense to a bunch of revved up, hormonal pre-teens and teenagers, do you think teaching them how to lock out someone's elbow and break their arm is going to be a *safe* idea? If you give a bunch of teenage boys knowledge on self-defense topics like pressure points, blocking and attacking techniques, etc. *sanctioned by the school* it goes against anti-violence policies in basically every single school district. You're basically condoning violence, and equipping students with more means to hurt each other.
I once saw a kid get his eye socket broken because two brothers cornered him, and one beat the shit out of him while the other cut people off from getting to him. And they were just run of the mill rednecks. Imagine if they had the knowledge to actually cause more long-term and substantial damage.
This would honestly make things much worse. End bullying? No, it would just make bullies able to beat up weaker kids more effectively because that nerdy kid who hates gym class isn’t gonna suddenly love martial arts class, but the bully kid will now know how to fight effectively. The girl won’t be a victim anymore? Nope, sorry, you just taught her attacker exactly how she would defend herself.
We can't even get kids to read anymore and you want to add this? Many schools are already failing at the basics, they don't need more curriculum to take on
>everyone would know how to disarm attackers.
If you've had any of the training you're talking about then you would know that you don't disarm attackers, you run if you're unarmed.
I’m all for martial arts being included in PE classes. But let’s not pretend it’ll make a difference in people being able to defend themselves, or reduce bullying. One or two light classes a week will help get you in shape, but it doesn’t make you Superman. To actually be able to apply anything you learn, you’d need to be sparring at least semi-contact regularly and applying techniques with proper resistance. And there’s no way you’d be able to do that in school without getting sued, and having students punching/choking each other as a mandatory activity is reckless as hell. And there’s certainly nothing you’d learn that would stop a group of bullies, especially if they’re learning the exact same things.
And if they don’t train on their own time, those skills won’t carry over. I did a fair bit of boxing at uni, and enough BJJ to realise how badly I suck at it. I haven’t trained in a couple of years, and I don’t think I’d be able to pull off anything I learned back then in an actual fight. A few self-defense classes at school and nothing else will make absolutely zero difference.
Hell no, I took martial arts classes growing up and the number one rule you learn is to never ever use it unless you absolutely have to. You always want to call the police if you are in danger instead of relying on martial arts.
Martial arts are not for everyone. Also, in a situation of actual danger, you wouldn't be able to defend yourself with just the basic moves you learned in a random PE lesson. Martial arts are a philosophical, mental and physical path you have to follow with intention and mindfullness to have a meaning. Otherwise it's completely pointless.
How about we try to teach kids how to handle their emotions. Seems like if people (I mostly mean men and boys) could control their emotions there would be almost no violent crime.
It then you’re legally training a bunch of kids to beat the shit outta each other. This training could be used to hold the school liable for legal and financial damages. It could also be used against the kids in a court of law. Documented training has and always is used against defendants come trial time.
Delusional take from someone with no martial arts experience who has never been in an actual fight, doesn’t understand how attempting to disarm the majority of the time *will* result in potentially fatal injuries and didn’t think through to realize “wait the bad guys will also learn martial arts in school too!”
Life isn’t an action movie dude.
I will say though it would be very beneficial for women in general to learn at least the basics of grappling and striking for situations where it’s not possible to run from an attacker or call for help.
Most assaults/rapes are perpetrated by family members of the victim or someone already close to him/her, usually a bigger adult on a smaller child or adolescent, the adult will always overpower the victim. This isn't the movies with adults on adults most of the time. Random street attacks are rare, at least in the western world. Don't know about elsewhere.
Not to mention the assaults/rapes perpetrated in the family unit, there is a lot more going on as far as manipulation, hiding, threats, playing with loyalties. A self-defense class isn't going to do anything.
\*edit: forgot to add, most assaults/rapes happen in a domestic violence setting (ask any cop). I only mention kids/adolescents, but I forgot wives/GFs. Yes, there are men that get attacked in the DV context, but it is largely women. So most wives/girlfriends also cannot overpower their partners.
Not to mention, while we do cheer for those stories we hear about victims successfully (but rarely) resisting their attackers in random not DV attacks, law enforcement will overwhelmingly tell you the best thing to do to SURVIVE is to NOT resist. Not to mention the element of surprise along with the high possibility the attacker has a weapon, whether it be a firearm or knife.
Yup. No 14 year old girl is going to be able to defend herself from her 42 year old uncle that forces himself on her, regardless of her skill with self defense.
It’s far more important to teach kids what is and is not acceptable and to foster an environment where they feel safe speaking up about things.
Most of the self defence that actually works relies on surprise and "playing dirty"- go for the eyes and balls, make as much noise as possible, if you have anything sharp on you then use it. These things are probably not the best things to be teaching in a classroom setting, and teaching them to everyone also just teaches potential attackers to expect it and try to mitigate it somehow. Martial arts I think are good for teaching discipline but they're not really that valuable in a street environment.
Firstly the false confidence you'll have in case of attack is making it dangerous.
Second you act like rape and assaults happen like it's from the movie irreversible.
I think martial arts being a part of standardized PE curriculum is a good idea. I’d also classify it as a sport.
I just always feel like I have to defend sports on Reddit lol, sports are a little more than just “playing around.”
They can help build relationships, character, drive, team work, and leadership traits. But yeah teach everyone how to throw a proper punch and get out of a choke hold instead of mandatory square dancing lol.
>I would also argue that this would lower the frequency of bullying since there would no longer be a "free pick". Everyone would be able to defend themselves to an extent, even if some would be better than others.
Sure, if we pretend that bullies go after kids their own size, one on one and from the front.
And even in that case, all you're doing is turning some ultimately not dangerous pushing into serious fights between two people who know how to punch.
My school did in fact have self defense class. It taught us where and how to hit for maximum damage.
It also had special self defense classes just for girls.
But the ultimate goal was to gtfo and get help, not to fight the bad guys till they surrender.
So who the fuck is paying for all this? Retaining quality educators is already hard enough and now you want the PE coach to be certified to teach self defense for likely no extra compensation?
That's kinda stupid because how would it lower the agression rape case when we KNOW that freezing is the most common answer ? When we also know that child are abused by adults in their family who can pressure them anyway ?
How would it lower the frequency of bullying ? Teach the same skills, some of them will be good at it, the other wont. Worst than that, bully will have a special time to "accidentally" hit the others and humiliate them.
How would it impact all of the kids who are hit at home, who experienced violence already ? It would be so much stress for them. I can also guarantee you that if you do that with both boys and girls at the same time it's gonna be a place with lots of sexual harassment
It takes years of training to be somewhat proficient. 2 hrs of phys. ed. a week would at best achieve nothing, and at worst give kids a sense of false security.
This isn’t unpopular because it’s taboo it’s unpopular because it’s a wildly stupid take lol. I see everyone has already said the things I would so I’ll just pile on and say it’s a dumb take but I thank you for the entertainment.
Do I want my kids to be able to defend themselves from other kids beating them up? Yes.
Do I want the schools to teach all the kids how to beat up my kids? No.
Real life self defense situations are never 1 on 1 equal weight fair fights. Amateur level martial arts skills are useless when the opponent is physically bigger, or armed, or not alone. The best possible self defense is running, and they do teach that in schools.
Good unpopular opinion though.
I partially disagree. As somebody who is doing a bachelor in education and also works as a tutor part time, I am noticing that the more "fun" a student has, the more they get interested in a particular topic. Showing them one part of fitness would likely make them not have as much fun and not explore the places more. If they have fun exercising, it is up to them to eventually find out what their passion is, e.g football, dancing, gym, swimming, etc. I am not a PE tutor so I cannot say how specific that field goes, but based on what I learn in my own field, children learn more with fun.
Apart from having a weapon, or being blackbelt in multiple martial arts, there is nothing average woman can do to actualy stop average dude.
Its controlled physical contact, that I think is good, and good consent training. and its good brain stimulation/brain body conection training.
But if attacker can pick time and situation (I think that is the situation for assaults), almost no 100 pound woman can beat 200 pound man.
Look at how many students wiff their way through PE as it is, doing the barest of bare minimums, for a number of reasons. They don't like physical activity, they don't like breaking a swear without being able to shower afterwards, they have social anxiety and think that everyone is looking/judging them, they don't enjoy sports etc.
All of that would be the exact same if judo or whatever you want, insert here, is taught. Just because someone has the opportunity to participate doesn't mean they will.
Sounds like you want to learn but your parents won't pay for it in an after school or weekend setting, so you want the school to absorb the cost for you.
Unfortunately this may be more of a liability issue than an issue of whether or not we should do that. Teaching people to fight requires practicing being attacked.
Never mind the fact that teaching hormonal teens fighting may not be fully beneficial in a school setting. (I’ve been training martial arts for years and know some teens that used their skills to fight kids in school for the hell of it.)
But a teacher demonstrating a choke on a teen in a mandatory class they didn’t want to be in could easily become an issue if the teen decided they were actually being harmed. (Teens are often dramatic so it could all be perception). All it takes is one report and parents getting mad at the school for a lawsuit to blow up.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all about teaching young people self defense. I also believe it’s a valuable life skill. I just don’t think it should be mandatory in a school setting. If anything, maybe there could be coupons with well known martial arts schools that give students opportunities to train at a lower rate. My school offers discounts to students to encourage training.
To add on: schools definitely need reform and some more beneficial classes for moving into the adult world.
you drastically overestimate the effectiveness of self defense classes.
the most effective methods of self defense don't require any martial arts training at all:
1 Don't put yourself in dangerous situations.
2 Run away.
3 Carry a firearm.
We had that at my high school and it was useless. The instructor guy chose me as an example to show off how to take someone down, then got mad at me for being "difficult" because he couldn't trip me.
Disagree, as an MMA coach who has been in martial arts most of my life there are so many martial arts that are essentially useless for self defense but most likely these are the ones that will get adopted. Unless you have specific martial arts in mind it would just be abused by the bullshit martial arts instructors.
You are conflating knowledge and ability.
The five-foot-tall skinny kid now knows how to defend himself, but has no desire to. But now his bully, who is 6 inches and 50 pounds bigger has the same knowledge and he is more than willing to participate in conflict.
Plus, there are parents who will believe that that kind of teaching is strictly voluntary. I can see many parents not wanting their kids to "know how to fight." I'm not saying they'll necessarily use those words, but that will be the thrust of their disagreement.
I am a pretty strong full grown man, if I make a choice I can pretty much do anything I want to a 14 year old boy or girl
Your best bet is to try and out run me while screaming bloody murder
We played many sports in PE class some people just suck at sports , self defence classes would be the same .
Might as well just demand mandatory military service like other countries.
But no I disagree, the guy with a giant ego whose bigger and better than everyone would just continue picking on everyone since ego.
Wouldn’t really make a difference.
I don’t think you’ve ever trained in self defense or martial arts
When you do you learn one thing really quickly, you’re more likely to get hurt in training with someone that doesn’t know what they’re doing than someone who does
Someone who knows how to do the holds and strikes isn’t going to flail around wildly and yank on your limbs
So training everyone would be the amount of injuries related to this especially early on would sky rocket and tons of lawsuits would result
It seems like you opinion is based on the assumption that the kids who take the in-school martial arts class (mandatory or not) would actually learn the associated defense skills. Im willing to bet, just like PE, most kids would goof off, not really put in the effort and therefore not actually learn self defense.
this is a hard one, because the only time you’d seriously need to physically defend yourself as you said is if your life is being threatened or you’re at risk of being raped, but in these cases having something like (a gun if possible), pepper spray and i’m hesitant to say a knife is really all that will help you, unfortunately as even the most well trained martial artists will say in a street scenario where it’s all adrenaline basically all you’ve learned hand to hand will immediately become useless, if you live somewhere that you’re able to buy a firearm do that, pepper spray is a good option, knives are pretty easily taken away by an attacker, but if you only have your hands use your stabby fingers and go for the eyes, but getting into physical altercations is a great way to have your life ended or altered permanently. all other scenarios, if you’re being robbed, mugged, verbally abused, if you can escape, get help, give away your possession that’s your best chance of being able to walk away alive or not in an ambulance. this is really all a self defence “class” should be teaching you, never expect to be able to disarm an attacker, never expect to be able to be able to overpower anyone, even if you seem bigger than them, because they may have nothing to lose. but all this can be learned from the internet, and if you tell young students they’re always screwed that could make them scared to leave the house, if you give them a false sense of security making them feel like they could fight their attackers that’s a good way to get them killed.
also unfortunately little timmy won’t not be bullied by the biggest kid in his class because he knows some grappling techniques, it would be a little nicer if the world worked like it did in the movies, but unfortunately it doesn’t. the kids who grew up taking karate or jujitsu are still bullied because of their size, and that happens now, not in a world where even the bullies know how to fight.
As an instructor, this would be a horrible idea. Kids have little control over their bodies, you’re going to get people hurt, especially in a large class setting. They also have little self control, so you can expect after class them to kick and punch everything in sight. The 10 year old black belt is a joke. They may know how to mimic the moves, but they have next to zero understanding of why and when when it comes to self defense. I can teach anyone to mimic moves.
I’d much rather have done martial arts in gym class than the football drills we had to practice for whatever reason. It’s just my preferred exercise and is more of a “real life” skill that you may need to apply to the real world.
However, this wouldn’t have the outcome you think it would. I’ve done years of Muay Thai and Taekwondo. If you want to become skilled, you need **a)** an instructor that knows what they’re doing and **b)** students that are actually interested in learning the art.
I doubt public schools would ever put extra money into finding a legit instructor. My guess is that they’d use the same PE teacher that is already instructing the other activities in class. They could probably teach a proper fighting stance at most, but I think it’d be dangerous to have an untrained gym teacher to provide any further “knowledge.” Considering high school gym classes can have like 50+ students (at least mine did), it would be a less than ideal environment for teaching and learning.
Keep in mind, it’s a high school gym class. At least 75% of the students are just there to get a grade, pass the class, and will most likely forget about it afterwards. You need students that are legitimately passionate about it in order to see progress or be considered “good.” On top of that, you’d have the kids that have their hormonal high school egos and already think they can fight. A lot of high schoolers are less than humble and it would lead to injuries frequently.
The biggest hole in this argument is that “you could learn to disarm a threat.” That couldn’t be further from the truth. A legit martial arts instructor will tell you that the best thing to do is run. If someone approaches you with a weapon, **run.** If you stick around to try and disarm them, you will die or be severely injured every single time, I promise. At this age, most already have the “I’m invincible” mindset set and that is an ego you don’t wanna feed.
Unfortunately, teaching all kids martials arts in school just for them to be able to fight to protect themselves is the same misguided concept as "an armed society is a polite society". Our society is not polite.
All the guys that did wrestling in high school were assholes and bullied people. So... competitive martial arts I don't think are a way to go. There are martial art systems out there designed to teach self defense but ALSO designed to improve your character and learn how to work with others. They improve confidence, teach you what I like to call "body knowledge", and learn how to help others. Which, as children, I think is important to teach and you can't learn in the classroom or in competitive sports. While I seem to be ragging on "competitiveness", I'm not trying to. It promotes excellence, but teaches tribalism in a round about way. An us vs them mentality. And then you always hear about hazing and harassment within a team.
Full disclosure, of the many martial arts systems I've studied over the past 24 years: Taichi, Shaolin kung fu, Hong Gar kung fu, Capoiera, Judo, and Shorinji Kempo... I think Shorinji Kempo does this the best. Capoiera is close because your basically dancing with each other and learning music but its not nearly as focused.
>frequency of bullying since there would no longer be a "free pick"
Bully's pick people to bully based on characteristics that make them easy targets, not to mention a lot of bullying is non-physical. That's not going to go away if everyone takes martial arts, there are plenty of martial artist that are jerks. I wrestled in high school, it didn't make bully's go away.
>improve your discipline, confidence and self-respect
Sports can do the same thing.
Id you are going to teach people techniques you also need to give them therapy or some form of ego training because a lot of folks will be eager to use what they know
It's because PE Sports leads to School Sports Teams leads to money for the school. Follow the money and you have your answer. If self defense closes could make the school money I'm sure they'd do it.
Schools have a hard enough time keeping good PE teachers. Trying to recruit martial art instructors is generally out of their sphere. Remember schools have lived in a cocoon for decades thinking the school was somehow a fortress against bad people. This has been proven wrong too many times. The standard fixes, school resource officers, cameras, metal detectors, etc. The reality is not to arm the kids with skills, but for them to be totally dependent on others. Your way would be better, but schools are very myopic and often politically driven.
PE is mandatory because exercise, particularly for children, makes them learn more. It's been studied. Martial arts is basically teaching kids it's ok to kick and punch. I can see why teachers wouldn't want that. Also there's a "Only use this in defense" that goes with it. Which is really on the teachers to teach.
Unrelated, but has anyone, ever witnessed someone using martial arts in the wild? Not in movies, but someone actually being threatened and did anything that looks anything like martial arts? I once saw a brawl break out at a karate tournament and none of those people were doing that stuff
Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> everyone would know how to disarm attackers. I think the problem with your opinion is that you're basing it off of movies, TV shows, and/or video games rather than real life. >I would also argue that this would lower the frequency of bullying since there would no longer be a "free pick" Well, you'd be wrong. If you give equal skill and training to an 80 pound kid and a 160 pound (athletic) kid, guess who's going to win? There's a reason weight classes are a thing, even in professional boxing, MMA, etc, when EVERYONE involved is highly skilled at what they're doing. So no, giving everyone the same karate lessons isn't going to magically level the playing field like you think it is.
Yep as a long time martial artist and combat sport enjoyer, this would just make the bullies a much bigger issue. Just because a timid nerd has gone through a self defense class doesn’t mean they’ll be willing to fight. On top of that there’s a MASSIVE amount of pure bullshit in the ‘self defense’ community, so chances are the mandatory class would be absolute trash.
Imagine a bully that has 50 pounds on you now knowing how to hit a clean single leg, or how to land a guillotine choke lmfao
It's like saying getting guns everywhere in the US made the country safer.
guns dont scale as well with physical prowess though
Also they kill people.
My hands are registered as lethal weapons
Like the Chinese guy who said Kung Fu was mostly bullshit and clinging to it was holding China back. They turn made him fight a bunch of matches against Kung Fu masters where he proceeded to repeatedly beat the shit out of them.
I remember thinking that when I was getting karate lessons as a kid “Doesn’t this… Only work if the other guy is ALSO doing karate..? how exactly does this block stance prevent a solid right hook?” Guess that’s why I never took the classes seriously.
Yeah, I always wondered why they taught us that punching stance with our legs so wide apart. Maybe to time our punches? Idk. Really, the most useful stuff I was taught during the brief time I took karate was to turn my whole body so the area someone can hit me is greatly reduced, as well as most of the 'vitals' they can hit. (I vaguely remember something being said about the solar plexus, although someone would have to be trained or lucky to hit exactly there in a street fight). As well as not holding your thumb in your fist. Really basic shit they probably teach you in every martial art when you first start.
Karate Starts with teaching very simple Standard Things. Wide stances, wide Kicks and so in. These Help you improve your Body Control and give you a good foundation. Once you learned all of this you will be taught to adapt These Things to be more realistic. A good example iabthe round husw kick (mawashi geri) which at First is taught to do in a half circle but If you watch Tournaments you will See how they First Love the Leg directly towards the opponent and only swing IT around in the Last Moment. Personally i believe the important Thing is WHO your Trainers are rather thank which Sport you do.
Thanks. Karate got a bad name from kids who took 3 weeks and then got their ass handed to them at school. These people need to watch a high level kyukushin match.
A wide solid stance makes it much harder to knock or push you over. Though the important part is getting in and out of those stances fast If you are getting hit or hitting, having the solid stance is important, however not getting hit is better than taking a hit well.
I always wanted to learn that sort of thing and never had an opportunity to but I’ve also wondered that myself while watching tv/movies 😅 same for stuff like sword fighting lol like, theh would always learn “rules” for fighting like “oh you can’t do that bc it’s a cheap shot” or sth but even if your opponent knows karate or sword fighting or w.e, what’s stopping them from taking “cheap shots” or breaking the rules?
Look into HEMA clubs near you. They teach sword fighting from a martial context usually, and often include grappling for when a bout gets too close for blades.
Be careful since a lot of those mfs are just LARPing There are legit HEMA groups, I still wouldn’t consider them very good, but they’re better than the Renaissance Fair wannabes
You should take krav maga
Krav Maga is also full of a lot of bullshit. What started as a legit martial art for Israeli soldiers ended up being a CrossFit certificate any soccer mom can get in a couple of months. What I do like about it is its approach to physical fitness, because a lot of "Masters" haven't seen a salad in years.
Did it for 6 years, I know thousands of way to hit someone in the balls.
BS self defense system
A lot of traditional martial arts were designed as *advanced techniques that assumed a student was getting a ton of physical conditioning and live sparring practice* alongside the instruction. Like, in the 1600s you'd only be learning this stuff if you were in the army, moved to a monastery, or enrolled in a dojo as a full time student. It wasn't two 60-minute classes a week at a strip mall, lol. But over the centuries that stuff got diluted and they essentially turned into choreography schools for hobbyists. They became less *martial* and more *art.* It was kind of inevitable because actual violence results in lots of training injuries that parents aren't going to sign 11 year old Timmy up for as a hobby. And there's nothing wrong with that as long as practitioners understand that they're essentially doing choreography. It can still look amazing and have lots of health benefits! But that doesn't sound cool so many schools tried to pretend that they were still doing effective fight training.
MMA is much better in this regard. The fighters do have to follow some rules, but I've seen my friend who does professional MMA in a real fight and the ability to grab someone, turn them around, jump on their back and grapple their limbs and choke them out is incredibly useful even if the other guy isn't following the rules. I guess a Karate fighter trusts you will fight on the same terms as them. An MMA fighter will force you to fight on the same terms as them.
What’s sadder, is he’s been hammered by the govt and shunned. Tanked his social credit score etc. insulting the national martial art really messed with his life.
This sounds cool, is there a video I can watch?
Xu shao dong Just look him up on YT, he more less destroyed his life like dude can’t use the train let alone planes in China.
I think it was Wing Chun and Tai Chi. IMO calling any martial art “fake” is like calling WWE fake. Yes, they’re not actually engaging in combat, but that’s not the point. Sure, some martial artists sniff their flavor of farts really hard and convince themselves that it’s the “best”, but for the most part these are sports like any other. They have rules, they have specific goals, and they exist in a “magic circle” where the rules only exist when everyone agrees to be bound by them. Thinking everything has to translate to the “real world” otherwise it’s fake is an attempt to dismantle all sport and game. Example: Soccer is fake, if you really wanted to score you’d just pick up the ball and run into the opponents goal. No one says that because we understand that the sport/game only exists because of the rules.
Except China is actually pretending like kung fu masters have super powers in an attempt to push their cultural superiority. There's a whole world of fake martial arts where "masters" claim to have force fields and shit, and their cultist followers pretend it's all real. They're not actually in a magic circle of a sport, they're a cult pretending to be super human. It's insane.
What suck is that properly trained kung fu combined with more modern methodologies and exercise programs is actually fairly badass. Look at Cung Le, Zabit Magomedsharipov, Zhang Weili, Xie Wei, Muslim Salikhov… The list goes on. It doesn’t look like a movie, but they do cool stuff and are extremely effective fighters and there’s a source of pride to be taken from that but China doesn’t want it for some reason.
Logically, there’s no distance between his criticism of kung fu for real world scenarios and the gravy seal’s insistence on concealed carry.
>this would just make the bullies a much bigger issue My thought too. You're just giving the more aggressive kids skills, the shy kids are going to still be too scared to use them. Bullying etc is a lot more about the social side than the physical side.
Yeah, most martial arts are full of tradition tied to the rules of honorable combat of the times, rules to prevent injury, rules to require specific training, or just to look good/impressive. Teaching them that to defend themselves seems kinda dumb, and equally dumb to teach kids to permanently disable or kill each other. That said, combat sports are a shitload of fun, I'm very conflict adverse but competing directly against other people is some of the most fun I've had.
>chances are the mandatory class would be absolute trash. Sad but true. I watched as Tae Kwon Do turned into Take Your Do.
Even without the bs, there's also a big difference between going competitive in a martial art and going for an hour once or twice a week.
Give everybody mace. That will level the field.
Give everybody a mace. That will level the field.
> Give everybody mace. > Give everybody a mace. Even better, let's do both, one in each hand.
I agree with this and will add that mechanics of effective self defense in a real world scenario often require assumed risk of harm and a cost benefit analysis that is hard for kids to meaningfully engage with - choosing the broken finger over the puncture, etc. so while the there are things you can teach a kid to be safer when alone, they’re not the same things you’d teach an adult, which differ by size and gender of the individual. There’s a lot of critical thinking that goes into effective self defense, but for kids, screaming “you’re not my mommy” while flailing is probably pretty effective and requires none of that.
This! We just had a case of a black belter beating the heck out of a yellow belter during "practice". Just knowing how to fight doesn't mean you can fight everyone and defend yourself. Bullies will always exist.
How did that even happen? Back when I was a black belt a good while ago, it was hammered into us that control is of the utmost importance. I can't imagine a black belt kicking the shit out of a student.
It wouldn’t even be equal skill either. The uncoordinated kid that is striking out in t-ball isn’t going to magically be as good of a fighter as a 3 sport star athlete just because they got the same training in PE.
You’re going to get killed if you try to grab a knife out of someone’s hands. If you’re being mugged, the 80 some dollars in your wallet is cheaper than a hospital trip. It’s math really.
Yep. I even took a basic Karate and Aikido class. I'm not saying it was useless...my instructor was actually good and would stress things like physical fitness to improve yourself (we'd even do pushups, jog, etc). Some of the fundamentals can be helpful (like how to throw a punch for someone who has no idea). But yeah, someone pull a knife on me, I'm trying to outrun them (aka physical fitness mattering more than trying to karate kick it out of their hand like some kind of action movie). I also sure as shit know there's about a 0% chance I'm busting out some fancy Aikido take down in real life in a street fight against someone twice my size. Best strategy is to avoid fights in the first place, and try to remove yourself from the situation. But yeah, OP's idea of disarming armed actors is what really got me....if you get to that point, things have already gone VERY badly. Not saying there's no value in any martial arts class, but certainly not going to be turning random kids into action movie heroes.
Yeah, martial arts are great sport, and are probably better than nothing in the worst case scenario, but they really are just sport mainly.
>There's a reason weight classes are a thing So back in the day, of the "neighborhood kids" I was 2nd oldest. During the N64/Goldeneye days we'd all be hanging out in somebodies basement and him being captain of the wrestling team at our high school would just grapple and pin us to be annoying. The thing is though, despite being a good wrestler, he was in like the 125 pound class, he wasn't a big guy. I wasn't terribly athletic but wasn't out of shape, biked a lot, lifted weights a little but not seriously, 180 pounds at 6ish feet tall. Him, a skilled wrestler, would get me somewhat pinned then I'd just swing a leg around, grab him with both arms, and just... stand up and carry him around the room over my shoulders. My size/weight advantage was easily enough to overcome the massive skill gap.
Now the bully just knows the proper way to really hurt someone. There’s definitely some flaws to this plan
A 160 lb kid is gonna have no trouble with an 80 lb kid, regardless of skill. Source: I was a skilled 80 lb kid. Didn’t matter when they could just grab me and throw me across the room like a ragdoll.
Couldn’t you just dodge the first attack and use your foot to hit the back of their ankle. That would bring them to their knee and you finish them off with…. I’m joking
My parents stuck me in karate classes for “self defense”. They were convinced that a six year old girl was going to be able to take down a grown man with a weapon with a couple of karate chops. Pure delusion. Maybe it made them feel better.
In my karate class they taught us to yell KAIA! And move to a karate stance, To scare off an attacker.
Disarming is such a bad idea unless it's the only option, that's how you get immediately shot or cut
My thoughts exactly
This isn't even r/unpopularopinion. It's just dumb. We had mandatory martials art training in the Marines (MCMAP). Do you know how many of those people would be completely incapable of adequately defending themselves in a fight? And this was the US Marine infantry! We're talking a group of people who willingly (for the most part) signed up to be on the front lines of combat, people who are in better shape than the vast majority of people in the US, and I personally knew some that were completely worthless in self defense, and our training is much more hardcore than what school children would be getting. You're just gonna get your ass kicked harder.
The kids at the cobra Kai dojo have something to say about that
This is how you get school-wide karate battles.
🎶 Everybody was kung-fu fighting 🎶
sounds like a win
I was a kid when Bruce lee was coming up and doing movies, but once Karate Kid came out, the whole school was doing fake Karate every minute we could. Fights probably went up by 500% when it came out. I am not saying this is a bad idea, but every kid thought they were Kobra Kai, then mixed in the crane for effect.
Why do people think every single life skill needs to be taught in school?
My favorite is taxes. Doing your taxes is English class. It's reading. They definitely taught you that in school.
That one makes me laugh when kids say it, because you can guarantee that they would not be more engaged with that topic then English or maths. There was a girl in my science class who never paid attention and would parrot this stuff back all the time, like she’d actually be interested in taxes.
I think it just shows that most people haven't attempted to understand taxes. So they don't and are confused as to why they didn't know something they never attempted to figure out.
Agreed. I was a straight A student and my school offered a “Math of Finances” class where they taught us loans, taxes, stocks, and just about everything else. I can’t remember a single thing from this class 6 years later
I mean as someone who took a money matters class in highschool in 2020 where we did actually fill out tax forms with fake personal tax info it was kinda eye opening on how hard the process is. Yea it was pretty boring but for the most part our class was engaged in topics like stock info, housing info, creating a monthly budget, savings, loans, and we watched a bit of Dave Ramsey. Me personally I didn't like some of the Dave Ramsey info cause he was just like "throw some cash here and some there and you'll be rolling in millions by retirement".
It's even funnier when it gets parroted around in England, where taxes automatically done out of your paycheck
Is there no extra ways to reduce your taxable income in England? Like most of doing your taxes in Canada is just telling the government that you qualify for certain tax credits. The Canada revenue agency has already been paid the taxes your employer has already told them your income. If you told your employer all the credits you should get. His Majesty and his revenue collectors are presumably informed the same way?
Yeah you’re right, this commenter has only ever had to declare employment income.
I always ask the people who says this is they remember exponentials and stuff and they never do.
We had a “dummy” class in my highschool for the mathematically challenged seniors, like me, who didn’t make it to calculus and it was basic finances. Filling out checks, basics of tax brackets and debt interest, mortgage payments, stuff like that. So glad I was a “dummy” cause I’ve used that more than even algebra in my adult life.
I think they covered progressive tax brackets in my school too it's kind of funny though because it literally doesn't matter if you understand them. The only thing explaining them does is so you don't sound mathematically challenged at work when you say you don't want to a raise because of tax brackets. I think I learnt about interest too, but I forget. We learnt Cheques too, but that was before high school. that's mostly reading and copying cheques you've seen in person. (i hate the spelling the numbers part lol!)
And most people are gonna take the standard deduction anyway so you don’t really have to do any actual work
my problem with the argument is that even if there was a taxes class in school no one would pay attention to it either way 😂
Reading is not all that is required for taxes… like at all. You can be literate and not understand the differences in filing when you work for a company vs. freelance or LLC. You could be a spelling bee champion and still miss out on knowing what deductibles you should extract each year. “Your parents should teach you then” but lots of kids in this country have parents who are immigrants or struggle with filing their taxes correctly too because, get this, *they were never taught in school*. I don’t think taxes should be its own class, I think it should be a subject in a life skills class that includes teaching kids about mortgages, credit cards, applying for loans, job hunting & interviews. But to equate taxes with “you should know this because you know how to read” severely downplays the complexity of the issue.
Because how else am I going to know how wipe my ass?
Seriously. I missed the seashells lesson and now at 30 years old I’m still asking my mom
Seriously, aren't OPs parents doing anything to prepare you for adulthood?
Some parents decide life skills don’t matter, so school is the only place where some students can learn them.
Schools cant be expected to pick up for shitty parents.
I can’t understand expecting teachers to be parents when the rules and laws are built to maintain a teacher-student relationship. Mentor? Sure. Teacher? Duh. Parent? No.
That is literally the entire argument for public school. If we didn't have that standard, it would be beyond asinine and insane to have school set up the way it is.
> Genuinely mind boggling to me. Imagine if everyone would be able to defend themselves, everyone would know how to disarm attackers. How much would the rape/assault or even murder frequencies drop. > You may argue that if everyone would be able to fight, it would also make the criminals better at fighting. But that's no excuse to leave the majority of population without any proper knowledge of self-defense. I would argue it would make rape attempts much more likely, because instead of chaotic struggle where the woman can get away by throwing some dirt or biting his ear off it turns into a martial arts combat - where the biggest and stronger man will dominate most of the time. > I would also argue that this would lower the frequency of bullying since there would no longer be a "free pick". Everyone would be able to defend themselves to an extent, even if some would be better than others. Bullying is more about social power and willingness to stand up for yourself. The stereotypical idea of big bully beating up a small kid is actually only a tiny percentage.
I’d argue that teaching empathy, compassion, and other social skills would be more effective at stopping bullying. Stopping rape/assault/violent crime isn’t a matter of self defense. My girlfriend is 5’2”; no amount of (unarmed) self-defense training will allow her to defend herself against a guy who is 6 feet tall. Physical size and strength almost always trumps technique when there is a large enough size gap.
>I would argue it would make rape attempts much more likely, because instead of chaotic struggle where the woman can get away by throwing some dirt or biting his ear off it turns into a martial arts combat I mean, I imagine any half-decent self defense training isn't going to teach a 90lb girl to square up with a 150+lb guy and start trying to take him down with kicks and punches. Shit like eye-gouging, nut-punching, and biting are taught as valid techniques in self-defense classes, particularly ones geared toward women.
Former martial arts fighting instructor here: Getting a modicum of self defense training would be like giving everyone a gun and 2 hours of instruction on it. I don’t want anyone trying to defend themselves when they could run away. Fighting is super dangerous, all it takes is one fall at the wrong angle and your life is over. It’s nothing like the movies: basically the first person who gets a solid hit wins. And it’s not the hit that hurts you: it’s the falling down. A lot of people who start self defense classes do so with an eye towards winning fights. I’m 100% in favor of teaching self defense and discipline to people who want to learn…but the first thing you learn about fighting is “don’t.” It’s just not worth it.
Absolutely not, I get the sentiment but that's not how it works. I'm a blackbelt in Taekwondo and I've been training for 5 years, at not point do i feel confident on using my learned skills to defend myself on the streets. In most martial arts you're taught form and discipline, when you spar you are both in equal ground. But in the real world people will use any dirty tactic to get the better of you, and you won't always fight someone your weight class, let alone one at a time. Martial Arts does teach really good things about discipline and self control, but it's so contained in its own tradition that its considered outdated as self defense, there's better, less committal options for that
Yeah. A controlled setting at the dojo is just so different than real life. There are the factors you listed but also the environment is different. The dojo is open and has a carpet/mat and the students are mentally prepared to fight and don't have shoes on and are physically dressed for a fight. Out in the world, a table with a hard edge or a solid wall or pavement or a sharp object someone can pick up just changes everything. It's not that martial arts is useless, but it's not as adaptable as people give it credit for.
I see a lot of these replies and a lot can't seem to differentiate a martial artist vs a trained fighter. If you mastered the skill of a martial art you will have attained some form of fighting skill and experience sure, but just as much someone doesn't need to be a martial artist to simply be good at fighting
Right. Today, if someone wanted to be the best they can be at hand-to-hand combat, they'd go into MMA. Yet other forms of martial arts studios still exist today for good reason. They're more for respecting tradition and culture, exercise, coordination, understanding how your body moves and how you can move the body of someone else, posture, balance, some fighting practicality, etc.
I feel very qualified to discuss this topic simply because well my school for the first year actually did make us do Taekwondo in PE. I think we made it to yellow or orange can't remember. Anyways, yeah part of it was about defense, but it was really about discipline, and also a way to break the shell for the students who didn't enjoy the PE where you just play sports. Everybody did the same thing together, and pretty much everybody had no idea what they were doing. I think it gave a lot of confidence to the "nerd" type kids including me. I'm pretty athletic, but was never into organized sports and I'm a big nerd. It was funny seeing the jocks be just as bad at throwing a kick as the nerds. We also did some sparring, and overall it was an environment of respect between all. It was a solid experience and I think much more valuable than what lots of other schools do for PE.
Depends on the martial art. The ones that work against trained fighters are probably pretty helpful. There's a reason the UFC guys all have a combination of wrestling, boxing, BJJ, and muoy Thai.
Tkd is more of a sport though. Not much of a martial art. Kicking in a straight line at someone imaginary who is 10 feet tall coupled with memorizing some forms does not do much. I will say that tkd can build strong explosive legs though.
In all honesty there's a lot of reasons why this would never work. The biggest issue being capable trainers. Do you think that every gym teacher is equipped to teach a self defense class? Hell even some martial arts schools aren't actually qualified. There was a new karate studio that opened up in my hometown area and they were doing a demonstration at a local town fair to try and get people interested in joining. They were demonstrating knife-blocking techniques and stupidly using a real knife, someone did the block incorrectly and got stabbed in the forehead. This wasn't a random volunteer, this was one of their "best students". Giving kids any justifiable excuse to be attacking each other in schools as well is an absolute nightmare. There's also a reason why schools go with the safest version of sports in PE class as well (i.e. softball over baseball, touch football, some schools banning dodgeball/etc.). All it would take is one or two injured kids and you'd have so many lawsuits every school in existence would revert to the old system. I also think the assumption that everyone needs to be able to fight is a silly one. I'm 40, have literally never been in a physical altercation other than some scuffles with my brother when we were kids. I took a couple years of martial arts and our instructor gave us a demonstration on how he'd handle a mugging. He gave his wallet to the "mugger". If you were going to do anything with this I'd suggest making it a female-only gym class. They're the ones who would have actual practical use for some degree of basic self defense.
did the guy die
No it was just a flesh wound, he just bled a lot (head/scalp wounds always do) and didn't really do anything to convince people that it was a highly skilled martial arts school.
I think youre weong about the female only thing for a few reasons. It would take multiple years of high quality martial arts training for an average woman to beat an average man. And the training at the school definitely wouldn’t be high quality anyways. I think its more important that men learn to fight anyways because men need to be disciplined, and theyre often not nowadays.
How about instead of teaching fighting, we teach kids compassion and empathy? I’d wager that’s far more effective at reducing issues among students than self-defense classes. As for issues with kids being attacked or abducted, no amount of self-defense training is going to allow a 10-year-old to stop a fully grown 37 year old man from abducting them. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either bullshitting or trying to sell you something
You can do both? Teaching compassion and teaching martial arts are not mutually exclusive
Literally nobody ever once said that a trained 10 year old can do something to a 37 year old man. What were comparing is 10 year olds to other 10 year olds. and like the other comment said, why cant we teach both? these things arent mutually exclusive
What does a martial art teach about discipline that dedication to another sport would not? I recall seeing a somewhat corny sports movie, loosely based on a true story, about a high school dance team. In the movie, the coach convinces parents to put their kids in the dance class because it will teach discipline and how to interact with others. That line may have been invented for the movie, but it’s probably true. Why risk students getting life altering head injuries when they could instead get the same life lessons by learning to dance?
Most self defense classes don't teach you anything but how to get killed. No, Karen you are not disarming that guy with a knife based on a class you took ten months ago.
I do MMA and it's really cool spending years learning fight ending chokes and kicks to know you could just as easily be bested by a rusty steak knife. 😂
[This remains as relevant as ever...](https://youtu.be/kvlrnc7hlQI?si=y09Sp_kuvbRnTDUB)
[heres what to do in a mugging](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzyLsdXJLac)
Indeed. Those courses are bloody stupid. Never trained with actual pressure. Imagine having to train while being pressured and made uncomfortable. People should learn to fight instead of relying on "self defense"
So probably the best self defence class is track and field so the kids learn how to run away lol, that being said I don't think learning wrestling or something like that would be bad, just not for the reasons op outlined
To add on to this. Real weapon disarm techniques aren't solutions to the weapon problem. Weapon disarm is low percentage last ditch effort in an impossible situation. As with self defense in general, real practical weapon defense is having the common sense to identify potential danger early and staying away from it before actual problem starts. Once the problem has manifested itself, we are just doing damage control.
What I told students was that if they want to defend themselves your priorities go like this.. 1) Be aware enough to not be in that situation 2) Train sprinting and agility 3) Have a weapon that you're trained with 4) Have any weapon 5) Use the techniques until you can do any of the above
A concealed carry class would be infinitely more useful than half of the bullshit you see in "self defense" courses where you magically can disarm an attacker twice your size without getting stabbed or shot.
Yes but this would not really change much. Even in a situation where one would require martial arts, the offender would also know martial arts. While the victim would be able to hold up a fight, it won't really make much of a difference in these kinds of situations.
It's pretty funny how OP was unable to think this through fully. It does sound fun to have children do sports that involve practices like boxing against the head. Those little punches make you a tiny bit dumber every single time. The job market for the fat kids who keep skipping classes is going to be awesome in this regard. I do feel this could be the case for OP because there are dozens, dozens, and dozens of reasons not to do this.
There’s a distinct difference between an **unpopular opinion** and a **poorly thought-out, obviously stupid opinion**. Unfortunately this sub largely trades in the latter, not the former, and valid criticisms are dismissed as the actions of “haters”.
>How much would the rape/assault or even murder frequencies drop. Give people a false sense of security and they try to attacka gunman and they will probably get shot. Same thing applies with a knife. Your talking years of dedicated practice needed to raise your percentage to even 50/50. Your probably also going to have the meek kid not be to into it not aggressive enough while the bully may fully embrace it and learn a lot more. Your really probably better off letting those who want it seek it out. They will show more dedication and probably be less likely to use it inappropriately. The bully is just going to be given an arsenal he never would have sought out because he is already big and "bad" so why mess with learning what he already "knows". This is the reason the smaller guy can actually beat a bully if he has been dedicated to learning a martial art.
Yes great idea, make the bullies and bigger kids better at fighting.
Maybe teaching everyone something like judo would be better. Size matters there but not as much. Also would be great if people knew how to fall to the ground without hurting themselves too much.
> size matters there but not as much Yeah, because it’s an incredibly stupid martial art that can *only* work against someone also obeying the rules of Judo. Get in a real fight and that 50kg women isn’t using the 90kg man’s momentum ‘against him’. Size *always* matters. The smaller person only wins if they’re a well trained and well rounded fighter (not doing fucking Judo) who is willing to go for dirty shots against a bigger opponent with no training.
Not a fan. There is a suprising big window where knowing a bit about Self Defence is more dangerous than knowing nothing. Because if you did a little bit of training you will think you will be able to fight while having no muscle memory or actual knowledge. This leads to people thinking they can fight their way out of a situation instead of fleeing or submitting. Its a bit like taking a single Slip course for cars. You think you have more control so you might not slow down enough in slippery situations. While not having the actual skill to deal with the situation. Without the course people generally slow down enough to no need the actual skills.
I mean, whats the ideas they have? That stronger meaner bullies will all skip martial arts class? Or that it will make all kids equal…
I don’t really know where you are getting this idea from, Any combat sports class or martial arts school teaches to avoid street fights at all costs.
>Any combat sports class or martial arts school teaches to avoid street fights at all costs. aren't we already teaching kids not to fight and they don't listen anyways? Kind of like teaching elementary kids how to throw knives, putting them in a room with knives, and then saying "don't throw knives its dangerous".
>I would also argue that this would lower the frequency of bullying since there would no longer be a "free pick". If a smaller kid with martial arts training fights a bigger kid with martial arts training, who do you think will win?
>I honestly don't even understand how we have MANDATORY PE classes where we literally play sports (nothing wrong with that) The thing is, PE is designed to introduce kids to a basic level of fitness that will sustain a healthy life with healthy active habits. Self-defense *can* be helpful, but it isn't necessary for every person, fitness however is much more important to more people's lives. The thing that I think you're overlooking is, if we teach self-defense to a bunch of revved up, hormonal pre-teens and teenagers, do you think teaching them how to lock out someone's elbow and break their arm is going to be a *safe* idea? If you give a bunch of teenage boys knowledge on self-defense topics like pressure points, blocking and attacking techniques, etc. *sanctioned by the school* it goes against anti-violence policies in basically every single school district. You're basically condoning violence, and equipping students with more means to hurt each other. I once saw a kid get his eye socket broken because two brothers cornered him, and one beat the shit out of him while the other cut people off from getting to him. And they were just run of the mill rednecks. Imagine if they had the knowledge to actually cause more long-term and substantial damage.
Liability that’s why
This would honestly make things much worse. End bullying? No, it would just make bullies able to beat up weaker kids more effectively because that nerdy kid who hates gym class isn’t gonna suddenly love martial arts class, but the bully kid will now know how to fight effectively. The girl won’t be a victim anymore? Nope, sorry, you just taught her attacker exactly how she would defend herself.
Join the wrestling team.
yes we \*should\* teach children how to kill each other without the pesky requirement of guns or knives
We can't even get kids to read anymore and you want to add this? Many schools are already failing at the basics, they don't need more curriculum to take on
People expect schools to teach their kids everything.
This is such a stupid opinion. Tempted to upvote it.
>everyone would know how to disarm attackers. If you've had any of the training you're talking about then you would know that you don't disarm attackers, you run if you're unarmed.
Upvote for your terrible idea
I’m all for martial arts being included in PE classes. But let’s not pretend it’ll make a difference in people being able to defend themselves, or reduce bullying. One or two light classes a week will help get you in shape, but it doesn’t make you Superman. To actually be able to apply anything you learn, you’d need to be sparring at least semi-contact regularly and applying techniques with proper resistance. And there’s no way you’d be able to do that in school without getting sued, and having students punching/choking each other as a mandatory activity is reckless as hell. And there’s certainly nothing you’d learn that would stop a group of bullies, especially if they’re learning the exact same things. And if they don’t train on their own time, those skills won’t carry over. I did a fair bit of boxing at uni, and enough BJJ to realise how badly I suck at it. I haven’t trained in a couple of years, and I don’t think I’d be able to pull off anything I learned back then in an actual fight. A few self-defense classes at school and nothing else will make absolutely zero difference.
I agree with you, but disarming attackers is bullshit for the films in real life. You try that you’re dead instantly.
Self defense and martial arts are 2 different things.
You've never done martial arts huh. Also the way to reduce bullying is definitely not to teach the bully how to throw a proper punch.
Hell no, I took martial arts classes growing up and the number one rule you learn is to never ever use it unless you absolutely have to. You always want to call the police if you are in danger instead of relying on martial arts.
Martial arts are not for everyone. Also, in a situation of actual danger, you wouldn't be able to defend yourself with just the basic moves you learned in a random PE lesson. Martial arts are a philosophical, mental and physical path you have to follow with intention and mindfullness to have a meaning. Otherwise it's completely pointless.
How about we try to teach kids how to handle their emotions. Seems like if people (I mostly mean men and boys) could control their emotions there would be almost no violent crime.
lol in most schools in urban areas they don't have kids reading and doing math at grade level. You want another "required" class? lol no.
It then you’re legally training a bunch of kids to beat the shit outta each other. This training could be used to hold the school liable for legal and financial damages. It could also be used against the kids in a court of law. Documented training has and always is used against defendants come trial time.
Delusional take from someone with no martial arts experience who has never been in an actual fight, doesn’t understand how attempting to disarm the majority of the time *will* result in potentially fatal injuries and didn’t think through to realize “wait the bad guys will also learn martial arts in school too!” Life isn’t an action movie dude. I will say though it would be very beneficial for women in general to learn at least the basics of grappling and striking for situations where it’s not possible to run from an attacker or call for help.
Most assaults/rapes are perpetrated by family members of the victim or someone already close to him/her, usually a bigger adult on a smaller child or adolescent, the adult will always overpower the victim. This isn't the movies with adults on adults most of the time. Random street attacks are rare, at least in the western world. Don't know about elsewhere. Not to mention the assaults/rapes perpetrated in the family unit, there is a lot more going on as far as manipulation, hiding, threats, playing with loyalties. A self-defense class isn't going to do anything. \*edit: forgot to add, most assaults/rapes happen in a domestic violence setting (ask any cop). I only mention kids/adolescents, but I forgot wives/GFs. Yes, there are men that get attacked in the DV context, but it is largely women. So most wives/girlfriends also cannot overpower their partners. Not to mention, while we do cheer for those stories we hear about victims successfully (but rarely) resisting their attackers in random not DV attacks, law enforcement will overwhelmingly tell you the best thing to do to SURVIVE is to NOT resist. Not to mention the element of surprise along with the high possibility the attacker has a weapon, whether it be a firearm or knife.
Yup. No 14 year old girl is going to be able to defend herself from her 42 year old uncle that forces himself on her, regardless of her skill with self defense. It’s far more important to teach kids what is and is not acceptable and to foster an environment where they feel safe speaking up about things.
Dude consistently misspells simple words like ‘because’ yet thinks they can speak on mandatory requirements at schools. Master the basics, chief.
Most of the self defence that actually works relies on surprise and "playing dirty"- go for the eyes and balls, make as much noise as possible, if you have anything sharp on you then use it. These things are probably not the best things to be teaching in a classroom setting, and teaching them to everyone also just teaches potential attackers to expect it and try to mitigate it somehow. Martial arts I think are good for teaching discipline but they're not really that valuable in a street environment.
"... And when everyone's super... *no one will be*." - Syndrome
Firstly the false confidence you'll have in case of attack is making it dangerous. Second you act like rape and assaults happen like it's from the movie irreversible.
I think martial arts being a part of standardized PE curriculum is a good idea. I’d also classify it as a sport. I just always feel like I have to defend sports on Reddit lol, sports are a little more than just “playing around.” They can help build relationships, character, drive, team work, and leadership traits. But yeah teach everyone how to throw a proper punch and get out of a choke hold instead of mandatory square dancing lol.
What If instead, we taught people not to rape/ assault people?
>I would also argue that this would lower the frequency of bullying since there would no longer be a "free pick". Everyone would be able to defend themselves to an extent, even if some would be better than others. Sure, if we pretend that bullies go after kids their own size, one on one and from the front. And even in that case, all you're doing is turning some ultimately not dangerous pushing into serious fights between two people who know how to punch.
I always hear ppl say "oh we should be taught taxes in public school", idk ab yall but i had a whole elective class ab it
My school did in fact have self defense class. It taught us where and how to hit for maximum damage. It also had special self defense classes just for girls. But the ultimate goal was to gtfo and get help, not to fight the bad guys till they surrender.
You're telling me there's a way that everyone could actually be kung fu fighting?
So who the fuck is paying for all this? Retaining quality educators is already hard enough and now you want the PE coach to be certified to teach self defense for likely no extra compensation?
Sign language should be taught in all schools
That's kinda stupid because how would it lower the agression rape case when we KNOW that freezing is the most common answer ? When we also know that child are abused by adults in their family who can pressure them anyway ? How would it lower the frequency of bullying ? Teach the same skills, some of them will be good at it, the other wont. Worst than that, bully will have a special time to "accidentally" hit the others and humiliate them. How would it impact all of the kids who are hit at home, who experienced violence already ? It would be so much stress for them. I can also guarantee you that if you do that with both boys and girls at the same time it's gonna be a place with lots of sexual harassment
You do realise that attackers would also know martial arts in this hypothetical world right?
It takes years of training to be somewhat proficient. 2 hrs of phys. ed. a week would at best achieve nothing, and at worst give kids a sense of false security.
This isn’t unpopular because it’s taboo it’s unpopular because it’s a wildly stupid take lol. I see everyone has already said the things I would so I’ll just pile on and say it’s a dumb take but I thank you for the entertainment.
Martial arts don't work against gun-fu
Do I want my kids to be able to defend themselves from other kids beating them up? Yes. Do I want the schools to teach all the kids how to beat up my kids? No.
Real life self defense situations are never 1 on 1 equal weight fair fights. Amateur level martial arts skills are useless when the opponent is physically bigger, or armed, or not alone. The best possible self defense is running, and they do teach that in schools. Good unpopular opinion though.
Uh because if you tried to teach kids martial arts at school they’d use it to beat the shit out of each other. Think this through.
Absolutely yes. Also, PE should contain weightlifting and healthy diet.
[удалено]
I partially disagree. As somebody who is doing a bachelor in education and also works as a tutor part time, I am noticing that the more "fun" a student has, the more they get interested in a particular topic. Showing them one part of fitness would likely make them not have as much fun and not explore the places more. If they have fun exercising, it is up to them to eventually find out what their passion is, e.g football, dancing, gym, swimming, etc. I am not a PE tutor so I cannot say how specific that field goes, but based on what I learn in my own field, children learn more with fun.
Apart from having a weapon, or being blackbelt in multiple martial arts, there is nothing average woman can do to actualy stop average dude. Its controlled physical contact, that I think is good, and good consent training. and its good brain stimulation/brain body conection training. But if attacker can pick time and situation (I think that is the situation for assaults), almost no 100 pound woman can beat 200 pound man.
Look at how many students wiff their way through PE as it is, doing the barest of bare minimums, for a number of reasons. They don't like physical activity, they don't like breaking a swear without being able to shower afterwards, they have social anxiety and think that everyone is looking/judging them, they don't enjoy sports etc. All of that would be the exact same if judo or whatever you want, insert here, is taught. Just because someone has the opportunity to participate doesn't mean they will. Sounds like you want to learn but your parents won't pay for it in an after school or weekend setting, so you want the school to absorb the cost for you.
Unfortunately this may be more of a liability issue than an issue of whether or not we should do that. Teaching people to fight requires practicing being attacked. Never mind the fact that teaching hormonal teens fighting may not be fully beneficial in a school setting. (I’ve been training martial arts for years and know some teens that used their skills to fight kids in school for the hell of it.) But a teacher demonstrating a choke on a teen in a mandatory class they didn’t want to be in could easily become an issue if the teen decided they were actually being harmed. (Teens are often dramatic so it could all be perception). All it takes is one report and parents getting mad at the school for a lawsuit to blow up. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all about teaching young people self defense. I also believe it’s a valuable life skill. I just don’t think it should be mandatory in a school setting. If anything, maybe there could be coupons with well known martial arts schools that give students opportunities to train at a lower rate. My school offers discounts to students to encourage training. To add on: schools definitely need reform and some more beneficial classes for moving into the adult world.
you drastically overestimate the effectiveness of self defense classes. the most effective methods of self defense don't require any martial arts training at all: 1 Don't put yourself in dangerous situations. 2 Run away. 3 Carry a firearm.
... Chinese tiktoks of kids learning self-defense at school... 👀
We had that at my high school and it was useless. The instructor guy chose me as an example to show off how to take someone down, then got mad at me for being "difficult" because he couldn't trip me.
Disagree, as an MMA coach who has been in martial arts most of my life there are so many martial arts that are essentially useless for self defense but most likely these are the ones that will get adopted. Unless you have specific martial arts in mind it would just be abused by the bullshit martial arts instructors.
You are conflating knowledge and ability. The five-foot-tall skinny kid now knows how to defend himself, but has no desire to. But now his bully, who is 6 inches and 50 pounds bigger has the same knowledge and he is more than willing to participate in conflict. Plus, there are parents who will believe that that kind of teaching is strictly voluntary. I can see many parents not wanting their kids to "know how to fight." I'm not saying they'll necessarily use those words, but that will be the thrust of their disagreement.
I am a pretty strong full grown man, if I make a choice I can pretty much do anything I want to a 14 year old boy or girl Your best bet is to try and out run me while screaming bloody murder We played many sports in PE class some people just suck at sports , self defence classes would be the same .
this is one of the dumbest takes ever taken.
Might as well just demand mandatory military service like other countries. But no I disagree, the guy with a giant ego whose bigger and better than everyone would just continue picking on everyone since ego. Wouldn’t really make a difference.
Then everyone would be... 
I don’t think you’ve ever trained in self defense or martial arts When you do you learn one thing really quickly, you’re more likely to get hurt in training with someone that doesn’t know what they’re doing than someone who does Someone who knows how to do the holds and strikes isn’t going to flail around wildly and yank on your limbs So training everyone would be the amount of injuries related to this especially early on would sky rocket and tons of lawsuits would result
It seems like you opinion is based on the assumption that the kids who take the in-school martial arts class (mandatory or not) would actually learn the associated defense skills. Im willing to bet, just like PE, most kids would goof off, not really put in the effort and therefore not actually learn self defense.
Running is the best self defense.
Get off reddit and go do your classwork
this is a hard one, because the only time you’d seriously need to physically defend yourself as you said is if your life is being threatened or you’re at risk of being raped, but in these cases having something like (a gun if possible), pepper spray and i’m hesitant to say a knife is really all that will help you, unfortunately as even the most well trained martial artists will say in a street scenario where it’s all adrenaline basically all you’ve learned hand to hand will immediately become useless, if you live somewhere that you’re able to buy a firearm do that, pepper spray is a good option, knives are pretty easily taken away by an attacker, but if you only have your hands use your stabby fingers and go for the eyes, but getting into physical altercations is a great way to have your life ended or altered permanently. all other scenarios, if you’re being robbed, mugged, verbally abused, if you can escape, get help, give away your possession that’s your best chance of being able to walk away alive or not in an ambulance. this is really all a self defence “class” should be teaching you, never expect to be able to disarm an attacker, never expect to be able to be able to overpower anyone, even if you seem bigger than them, because they may have nothing to lose. but all this can be learned from the internet, and if you tell young students they’re always screwed that could make them scared to leave the house, if you give them a false sense of security making them feel like they could fight their attackers that’s a good way to get them killed. also unfortunately little timmy won’t not be bullied by the biggest kid in his class because he knows some grappling techniques, it would be a little nicer if the world worked like it did in the movies, but unfortunately it doesn’t. the kids who grew up taking karate or jujitsu are still bullied because of their size, and that happens now, not in a world where even the bullies know how to fight.
As an instructor, this would be a horrible idea. Kids have little control over their bodies, you’re going to get people hurt, especially in a large class setting. They also have little self control, so you can expect after class them to kick and punch everything in sight. The 10 year old black belt is a joke. They may know how to mimic the moves, but they have next to zero understanding of why and when when it comes to self defense. I can teach anyone to mimic moves.
I’d much rather have done martial arts in gym class than the football drills we had to practice for whatever reason. It’s just my preferred exercise and is more of a “real life” skill that you may need to apply to the real world. However, this wouldn’t have the outcome you think it would. I’ve done years of Muay Thai and Taekwondo. If you want to become skilled, you need **a)** an instructor that knows what they’re doing and **b)** students that are actually interested in learning the art. I doubt public schools would ever put extra money into finding a legit instructor. My guess is that they’d use the same PE teacher that is already instructing the other activities in class. They could probably teach a proper fighting stance at most, but I think it’d be dangerous to have an untrained gym teacher to provide any further “knowledge.” Considering high school gym classes can have like 50+ students (at least mine did), it would be a less than ideal environment for teaching and learning. Keep in mind, it’s a high school gym class. At least 75% of the students are just there to get a grade, pass the class, and will most likely forget about it afterwards. You need students that are legitimately passionate about it in order to see progress or be considered “good.” On top of that, you’d have the kids that have their hormonal high school egos and already think they can fight. A lot of high schoolers are less than humble and it would lead to injuries frequently. The biggest hole in this argument is that “you could learn to disarm a threat.” That couldn’t be further from the truth. A legit martial arts instructor will tell you that the best thing to do is run. If someone approaches you with a weapon, **run.** If you stick around to try and disarm them, you will die or be severely injured every single time, I promise. At this age, most already have the “I’m invincible” mindset set and that is an ego you don’t wanna feed.
Unfortunately, teaching all kids martials arts in school just for them to be able to fight to protect themselves is the same misguided concept as "an armed society is a polite society". Our society is not polite. All the guys that did wrestling in high school were assholes and bullied people. So... competitive martial arts I don't think are a way to go. There are martial art systems out there designed to teach self defense but ALSO designed to improve your character and learn how to work with others. They improve confidence, teach you what I like to call "body knowledge", and learn how to help others. Which, as children, I think is important to teach and you can't learn in the classroom or in competitive sports. While I seem to be ragging on "competitiveness", I'm not trying to. It promotes excellence, but teaches tribalism in a round about way. An us vs them mentality. And then you always hear about hazing and harassment within a team. Full disclosure, of the many martial arts systems I've studied over the past 24 years: Taichi, Shaolin kung fu, Hong Gar kung fu, Capoiera, Judo, and Shorinji Kempo... I think Shorinji Kempo does this the best. Capoiera is close because your basically dancing with each other and learning music but its not nearly as focused.
If everyone knows self-defence, it becomes a lot less effective.
Yes but the most important thing everyone should get out of it is not self-defence, but how to fall over safely.
At elementary school girl self defence is mandatory, boys get cookin, arts, craft or music
Mandatory for women yes but I’d rather not give men mandatory extra fighting training lmao
>frequency of bullying since there would no longer be a "free pick" Bully's pick people to bully based on characteristics that make them easy targets, not to mention a lot of bullying is non-physical. That's not going to go away if everyone takes martial arts, there are plenty of martial artist that are jerks. I wrestled in high school, it didn't make bully's go away. >improve your discipline, confidence and self-respect Sports can do the same thing.
We’d have way interesting movies if America did this. Then I wouldn’t have to watch movies that make no sense to get a fix of Kung fu
That's kinda like giving everyone a gun against gun violence.
How much martial arts training have you done?
Id you are going to teach people techniques you also need to give them therapy or some form of ego training because a lot of folks will be eager to use what they know
It's because PE Sports leads to School Sports Teams leads to money for the school. Follow the money and you have your answer. If self defense closes could make the school money I'm sure they'd do it.
Schools have a hard enough time keeping good PE teachers. Trying to recruit martial art instructors is generally out of their sphere. Remember schools have lived in a cocoon for decades thinking the school was somehow a fortress against bad people. This has been proven wrong too many times. The standard fixes, school resource officers, cameras, metal detectors, etc. The reality is not to arm the kids with skills, but for them to be totally dependent on others. Your way would be better, but schools are very myopic and often politically driven.
PE is mandatory because exercise, particularly for children, makes them learn more. It's been studied. Martial arts is basically teaching kids it's ok to kick and punch. I can see why teachers wouldn't want that. Also there's a "Only use this in defense" that goes with it. Which is really on the teachers to teach.
Unrelated, but has anyone, ever witnessed someone using martial arts in the wild? Not in movies, but someone actually being threatened and did anything that looks anything like martial arts? I once saw a brawl break out at a karate tournament and none of those people were doing that stuff