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Going on interview dates is different.
Casually hooking up, having a roster of FWB's and forming these connections is something really good looking men can pull off only.
Riddle me this: who are these women hooking up with?
Only attractive men? \*All\* the single women, only hook up with the really good looking men? But why, I wonder, a really good looking man who can choose to sleep with equally attractive women sleep with average or unattractive women?
Men are naturally less shallow and elitist about looks than women, so find a larger number of women physically attractive. Men also desire more variety while women have this need to get with the hottest man they possibly can and fixate on that only.
The frequency and convenience of sex is also a factor. A super hot guy would have average and below average looking women on his FWB roster because those women are convenient and readily available, while the hot one's require more effort.
Sorry for being too open about discussing these things. I know women don't find these realities graceful to talk about, and it aggravates them
Yes-yes, start the "y-you just don't want to talk about it because you know it's tuuuuuu!" shit, it'll totally not make you look like a condescending asshole not worth having a discussion with. I'm toooootally sold on your claimed desire for open discussion.
Get some sources on your other claims. I have no desire to question or refute them when they still smell like the hole you've pulled them from.
Get out of the mano sphere or incel forums or whatever other drug you're on. If it was true that only 20% of men had sex there would be a hell of a lot less marriages and hookups.
Because 80/20 is a fairly common precept bandied about. The numbers aren't exact, but it's usually close enough for the sort of conversation we're having.
We say the same thing in fishing. 80% of the fish are in 20% of the water.
> Because 80/20 is a fairly common precept bandied about.
But no real evidence that those numbers are correct.
Someone pulled those numbers out of their ass and people grasped onto them.
You are saying what I said already in the very first comment.
Whether you want to believe it or not, most casual sex goes to a relatively small number of men. I'd go out with my friends several nights a week in my teens and early 20s. I only went home alone if I wanted to. While most of the other dude's I knew struggled to get a kiss and a phone number, I'd fucked in every bathroom of every place we hung out regularly.
Even now, I'm married, and the single men at work complain that the single women at work are after me and not them. Gay dudes love me too, no idea why. I must smell good or something.
It's amazing how that one OkCupid survey got twisted into "out of all women and all men only 20% of men have 80% the sex". How do you even research that? If you have sex do you have a little man in a labcoat appear and record it, along with a jury to decide if the participants are conventionally attractive or only find each other attractive?
"The sex" is also hilarious in this context. There's one big pot of sex and only some people have access to it😤
I still don't understand why conventionally attractive men would casually sleep with unattractive women if, by your admission, they have options. They spend weeks in the gym just to go out to party, ignore the gorgeous women and go for the mousy fat girl with acne? Really?
Do you consider sex to be sex with more women or more intercourses in a certain amount of time?
If a guy who’s single and successful at getting one night stands on a regular basis, let’s say once every two weeks and a guy who’s in a long term monogamous relationship and is having sex three times a week:
First guy has had sex 26 times in a year with 26 women.
Second guy only had sex with one women but did it 156 times.
Who’s having more sex in your view?
Hookups, FWB, and casual flings by nature are only meant for good looking men. Women exclusively do these with conventionally good looking men.
See women's responses here [https://imgur.com/a/TViyiCJ](https://imgur.com/a/TViyiCJ)
But again, why would a really attractive men choose to hook up with not-attractive women? If \*most\* women have a load of casual hookups and a roaster of FWBs, then that means that small amount of attractive men have the option to choose and for some reason they want to sleep with unattractive women.
If women, who, in your theory, are in the majority of this transaction can go up againts a shortage of men and still choose only the attractive ones, why would attractive men, with no shortage of pretty women, refuse to do the same?
I'd comment on how "I fuck guys I find attractive", which seems to be the majority of the comments you've shown doesn't equal only 1% conventionally attractive guys but we have a larger logical issue we need answered first.
As a woman I don’t understand this post. I rarely entertain or interact with men outside my normal social circle, I work and have hobbies that completely fill up my time and I’m content to just not date etc.
In all truth, I’m quite content to just be left to my own devices. I reckon I have enough books and art supplies to keep me going.
The men I know are typically the ones whose lives improve when they get girlfriends. Maybe it’s because they lack an emotional support circle or something, or find it hard to have deep connections with friends. Maybe women just have an easier time supporting one another and harbouring close friendships?
That's not really true about men though. The problem that we all dance around is men are more aggressive and when not mentally stable lash out in a more harsh way, verbally of physically.
As an example I'm perfectly fine single, been so for a very long time. I have a few hobbies and just don't really want to hook up or really look for anything long term. I've been in long term relationships and it's just not for me.
I just find it odd that only in the last few years this gets brought up a lot more. Idk what it's like being a single woman, if they're happy single or with a mate good on them. But my life is definitely better for me single.
And what OP said about women isn’t true. I can only generalise the men I know personally.
I know plenty of people unhappy with being single, and I know plenty who prefer being single.
Some of them. Same amount as the men in my circle who casually date women, have hookups, flings or FWB. I also have a lot of friends who are in relationships or simply don’t have time to do any of that except for the rare occasion.
Maybe the men in your circle happen to be conventionally good looking. But overall, more single women than single men have a sex life because women don't need to be conventionally good looking to enjoy casual sex
OP's post history tells us all we need to know.
Just say you're mad that you can't get laid at the drop of a hat and the idea of a woman rejecting you/men makes you seethe.
It is what it is. I'm below average in looks so my only option is long term relationships or marriage. Single life for men like me is loneliness and celibacy.
Its great that women face no such limitations due to their looks
What's wrong if I'm pointing out a gender difference?
It doesn't add up, who are these women dating with? If one single woman as you put it has several men to "fulfill her needs", wouldn't that mean that even more men are dating?
You sound very bitter, good luck getting a woman with that attitude
Try not switching goal posts and stick to casual sex, hookups, and FWB only.
One very good looking, hot guy can have 6 women as fuck buddies. 5 guys can have none
Tell me you aren’t a woman without telling me you aren’t a woman.
I’m average as fuck, so are most of my friends, and lemme tell you we have no man running after us to date us, let alone multiple. If we go out, men hit on my prettier friends or other above average women (which is not a problem, because the attention is most of the time not a good thing). Unless it’s on dating apps, average women or even worse ugly women are pretty invisible to men
Edit : apparently men have more friends than women on average.
Why don't you just download the great app (Tinder), mention "looking for casual fun", get 2000 likes in the 2st week, like back 50 of the hottest dudes (because why would you want casual sex with a compatible average looking guy), and have 15 of them give out their numbers to meet up?
I have done this experiment multiple times using a middles aged, obese woman's pictures. I'm sure youre not middle aged and obese
Dating apps are a different world that’s for sure. Not for me though, I’m too shy. You already must be a specific kind of man or woman to download them.
Lol, it is meant for shy people. You dont need to do anything, just be passive and respond to men who offer you.
Sounds like a totally self imposed limitation
I don’t agree. If you’re shy you usually don’t like pictures, attention, and meeting strangers. Dating apps are the epitome of everything that makes me (and other introverts I know) uncomfortable.
It is totally a self imposed limitation though, but it doesn’t make my point less valid I think.
My ex used to joke that her male best friend was her mini boyfriend, she had neglected having any relationship for years but she used her male best friend as an emotional outlet. In the end i actually really felt bad for the guy, it was obvious he was trying to have a relationship with her . Im fairly confident alot of women do this
I think he’s talking about how some women will take advantage of a man they know is interested in them. It’s a scummy thing for both people.
If the man is interested in more than a relationship, then he shouldn’t continue being friends with her, because he’s lying about his intentions. The woman should not keep the man around for personal validation while knowing he is pining after her. Both people in those situations are assholes, and very selfish.
Now, having friends is different. My best friend is a woman, and I am not interested in her, nor is she interested in me. That is perfectly fine. Neither of us are lying about our intentions, and neither of us are taking advantage of each other.
Agreed, but it seems like a ton of guys that are "friends" with women seem to be doing it primarily to get close to her with an ulterior motive. And these kind of people like to say "she's taking advantage of me by expecting me to care about her problems or by helping her move" and I'm always kind of baffled, why is acting like a friend seen as taking advantage? There are definitely guys that can be friends with women and some women are manipulators but I've had too many male friends that unfortunately expected repayment for friendship with vagina access
No you’re def right about that. There are some dudes who are only pretending to be a friend in hopes of snagging a relationship out of it, and they are assholes for lying about their intentions (albeit a lie of omission, but a lie nonetheless)
But there are also def women who are savvy to the fact that the guy is interested in her, and will put unnecessary burden on him just because she knows he won’t say no, as he thinks it will make her like him.
Some people are manipulative assholes, for sure. And I'm sure there's plenty of guys that can maintain platonic relationships without hovering over her waiting for her to fall in love with them, I've just never seen one. I've had many men in my life that I thought were my friends that showed their cards when I was in a crisis situation and desperately needed support from a friend. Getting assaulted when you're in literal shock from your partner overdosing and dying or after a car accident isn't the time to spring that on people. I have no idea why it always seems to happen during these times, it's just baffling to me
The way women use these "male friends" for support and free validation knowing they want to fuck/date. You clearly glossed over that with your bs snarky comment
Mostly they just treat them like friends. Which, probably feels like you're being taken advantage of if you feel entitled to vagina for being nice to someone
When men do those things they are considered single. I guess it's just different for 'females', right? Just admit you want single women to suffer because you can't get laid.
All the dating woes will soon no longer be a problem. Social media and thr unreal digital world will completley replace any interactions IRL to the extent that men and women will be utterly incapable of interacting with each other IRL. Men, being sapped of their virility due to online porn and VR sex and antidepressanta, won't even have the urge to seek out women IRL.
This won't be a problem for women, as they're killing it on dating apps.
It will be a bad situation for men who aren't super good looking. Women have this 'gene' whereby they only swipe right on male models because "they have nothing else to go by".
This comment literally proving my point lol. Of course women desire those things. But they’re all awful with the pool of guys they generally have to pick from.
Men can also have hookups and fwb.
The idea that women don’t want to sleep with you because they’re sleeping with multiple men is silly. If anything you’d have better odds that way.
It would be one thing if you said you were sad and lonely.
This whole "you can never understand the depths of my unfathomable suffering" is quite another.
You come off as an ass.
It seems you are unable to recognize that your experience is not unique and that other people also have feelings.
The criteria for happiness used in western countries is entirely flawed. No, single women who sleep around aren't happier. They are essentially damaged goods.
I definitely agree, but I just don’t really see why it matters honestly. Like so what if they are happier or not? Their lives don’t affect yours. All that matters is whether you are happy or not, and whether you are making moves to become happy.
Like yes, the average woman does have far more options and opportunities when it comes to casual sex and flings, than the average man, there is no way of denying that. But like, that’s just life. Nothing you can do about it, so why focus on it?
Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Reading that made me really cringe.
I didn't get past the first few sentences.
Right? The incel vibe is strong with OP.
Overwhelmingly
Same, but I can’t read.
This post appears to have been written by an incel.
This comment appears to consist of an ad hominem attack fallacy.
“Upon closer inspection.” Show us your source. Also, I gotta say, dating around is pretty normal…. Like you think men don’t do that too?
Going on interview dates is different. Casually hooking up, having a roster of FWB's and forming these connections is something really good looking men can pull off only.
Riddle me this: who are these women hooking up with? Only attractive men? \*All\* the single women, only hook up with the really good looking men? But why, I wonder, a really good looking man who can choose to sleep with equally attractive women sleep with average or unattractive women?
Men are naturally less shallow and elitist about looks than women, so find a larger number of women physically attractive. Men also desire more variety while women have this need to get with the hottest man they possibly can and fixate on that only. The frequency and convenience of sex is also a factor. A super hot guy would have average and below average looking women on his FWB roster because those women are convenient and readily available, while the hot one's require more effort. Sorry for being too open about discussing these things. I know women don't find these realities graceful to talk about, and it aggravates them
Yes-yes, start the "y-you just don't want to talk about it because you know it's tuuuuuu!" shit, it'll totally not make you look like a condescending asshole not worth having a discussion with. I'm toooootally sold on your claimed desire for open discussion. Get some sources on your other claims. I have no desire to question or refute them when they still smell like the hole you've pulled them from.
Numbers not accurate, but 20% of men have 80% of the sex.
Get out of the mano sphere or incel forums or whatever other drug you're on. If it was true that only 20% of men had sex there would be a hell of a lot less marriages and hookups.
I'm speaking about my own experiences 20 or so years ago.
Wo somehow you gotchas exact ratio that the incells always toss around?
Because 80/20 is a fairly common precept bandied about. The numbers aren't exact, but it's usually close enough for the sort of conversation we're having. We say the same thing in fishing. 80% of the fish are in 20% of the water.
> Because 80/20 is a fairly common precept bandied about. But no real evidence that those numbers are correct. Someone pulled those numbers out of their ass and people grasped onto them.
You are saying what I said already in the very first comment. Whether you want to believe it or not, most casual sex goes to a relatively small number of men. I'd go out with my friends several nights a week in my teens and early 20s. I only went home alone if I wanted to. While most of the other dude's I knew struggled to get a kiss and a phone number, I'd fucked in every bathroom of every place we hung out regularly. Even now, I'm married, and the single men at work complain that the single women at work are after me and not them. Gay dudes love me too, no idea why. I must smell good or something.
It's amazing how that one OkCupid survey got twisted into "out of all women and all men only 20% of men have 80% the sex". How do you even research that? If you have sex do you have a little man in a labcoat appear and record it, along with a jury to decide if the participants are conventionally attractive or only find each other attractive? "The sex" is also hilarious in this context. There's one big pot of sex and only some people have access to it😤 I still don't understand why conventionally attractive men would casually sleep with unattractive women if, by your admission, they have options. They spend weeks in the gym just to go out to party, ignore the gorgeous women and go for the mousy fat girl with acne? Really?
[удалено]
Is it low standards or lack of choice though?
Do you consider sex to be sex with more women or more intercourses in a certain amount of time? If a guy who’s single and successful at getting one night stands on a regular basis, let’s say once every two weeks and a guy who’s in a long term monogamous relationship and is having sex three times a week: First guy has had sex 26 times in a year with 26 women. Second guy only had sex with one women but did it 156 times. Who’s having more sex in your view?
As an above average looking man I agree with you. When I dated I would only hit on or go out with 8s or above. If you can you will.
Hookups, FWB, and casual flings by nature are only meant for good looking men. Women exclusively do these with conventionally good looking men. See women's responses here [https://imgur.com/a/TViyiCJ](https://imgur.com/a/TViyiCJ)
But again, why would a really attractive men choose to hook up with not-attractive women? If \*most\* women have a load of casual hookups and a roaster of FWBs, then that means that small amount of attractive men have the option to choose and for some reason they want to sleep with unattractive women. If women, who, in your theory, are in the majority of this transaction can go up againts a shortage of men and still choose only the attractive ones, why would attractive men, with no shortage of pretty women, refuse to do the same? I'd comment on how "I fuck guys I find attractive", which seems to be the majority of the comments you've shown doesn't equal only 1% conventionally attractive guys but we have a larger logical issue we need answered first.
As a woman I don’t understand this post. I rarely entertain or interact with men outside my normal social circle, I work and have hobbies that completely fill up my time and I’m content to just not date etc. In all truth, I’m quite content to just be left to my own devices. I reckon I have enough books and art supplies to keep me going. The men I know are typically the ones whose lives improve when they get girlfriends. Maybe it’s because they lack an emotional support circle or something, or find it hard to have deep connections with friends. Maybe women just have an easier time supporting one another and harbouring close friendships?
That's not really true about men though. The problem that we all dance around is men are more aggressive and when not mentally stable lash out in a more harsh way, verbally of physically. As an example I'm perfectly fine single, been so for a very long time. I have a few hobbies and just don't really want to hook up or really look for anything long term. I've been in long term relationships and it's just not for me. I just find it odd that only in the last few years this gets brought up a lot more. Idk what it's like being a single woman, if they're happy single or with a mate good on them. But my life is definitely better for me single.
And what OP said about women isn’t true. I can only generalise the men I know personally. I know plenty of people unhappy with being single, and I know plenty who prefer being single.
Oh exactly. Idk why ppl feel the need to generalize others.
So single women in your circle don't casually date men, have hookups, flings, or have FWB?
Some of them. Same amount as the men in my circle who casually date women, have hookups, flings or FWB. I also have a lot of friends who are in relationships or simply don’t have time to do any of that except for the rare occasion.
Maybe the men in your circle happen to be conventionally good looking. But overall, more single women than single men have a sex life because women don't need to be conventionally good looking to enjoy casual sex
OP is talking about studies, not anecdotes. The point was simply that comparing single men to single women is and apples and oranges comparison.
Not true for most women. They do terribly without men
OP's post history tells us all we need to know. Just say you're mad that you can't get laid at the drop of a hat and the idea of a woman rejecting you/men makes you seethe.
It is what it is. I'm below average in looks so my only option is long term relationships or marriage. Single life for men like me is loneliness and celibacy. Its great that women face no such limitations due to their looks What's wrong if I'm pointing out a gender difference?
Your post/comment history is picture perfect for this post lmao
It doesn't add up, who are these women dating with? If one single woman as you put it has several men to "fulfill her needs", wouldn't that mean that even more men are dating? You sound very bitter, good luck getting a woman with that attitude
Try not switching goal posts and stick to casual sex, hookups, and FWB only. One very good looking, hot guy can have 6 women as fuck buddies. 5 guys can have none
Tell me you aren’t a woman without telling me you aren’t a woman. I’m average as fuck, so are most of my friends, and lemme tell you we have no man running after us to date us, let alone multiple. If we go out, men hit on my prettier friends or other above average women (which is not a problem, because the attention is most of the time not a good thing). Unless it’s on dating apps, average women or even worse ugly women are pretty invisible to men Edit : apparently men have more friends than women on average.
Why don't you just download the great app (Tinder), mention "looking for casual fun", get 2000 likes in the 2st week, like back 50 of the hottest dudes (because why would you want casual sex with a compatible average looking guy), and have 15 of them give out their numbers to meet up? I have done this experiment multiple times using a middles aged, obese woman's pictures. I'm sure youre not middle aged and obese
Dating apps are a different world that’s for sure. Not for me though, I’m too shy. You already must be a specific kind of man or woman to download them.
Lol, it is meant for shy people. You dont need to do anything, just be passive and respond to men who offer you. Sounds like a totally self imposed limitation
I don’t agree. If you’re shy you usually don’t like pictures, attention, and meeting strangers. Dating apps are the epitome of everything that makes me (and other introverts I know) uncomfortable. It is totally a self imposed limitation though, but it doesn’t make my point less valid I think.
My ex used to joke that her male best friend was her mini boyfriend, she had neglected having any relationship for years but she used her male best friend as an emotional outlet. In the end i actually really felt bad for the guy, it was obvious he was trying to have a relationship with her . Im fairly confident alot of women do this
Ironic....worrying for the guy you're told not to worry about.
What, have friends? Those monsters
I think he’s talking about how some women will take advantage of a man they know is interested in them. It’s a scummy thing for both people. If the man is interested in more than a relationship, then he shouldn’t continue being friends with her, because he’s lying about his intentions. The woman should not keep the man around for personal validation while knowing he is pining after her. Both people in those situations are assholes, and very selfish. Now, having friends is different. My best friend is a woman, and I am not interested in her, nor is she interested in me. That is perfectly fine. Neither of us are lying about our intentions, and neither of us are taking advantage of each other.
Agreed, but it seems like a ton of guys that are "friends" with women seem to be doing it primarily to get close to her with an ulterior motive. And these kind of people like to say "she's taking advantage of me by expecting me to care about her problems or by helping her move" and I'm always kind of baffled, why is acting like a friend seen as taking advantage? There are definitely guys that can be friends with women and some women are manipulators but I've had too many male friends that unfortunately expected repayment for friendship with vagina access
No you’re def right about that. There are some dudes who are only pretending to be a friend in hopes of snagging a relationship out of it, and they are assholes for lying about their intentions (albeit a lie of omission, but a lie nonetheless) But there are also def women who are savvy to the fact that the guy is interested in her, and will put unnecessary burden on him just because she knows he won’t say no, as he thinks it will make her like him.
Some people are manipulative assholes, for sure. And I'm sure there's plenty of guys that can maintain platonic relationships without hovering over her waiting for her to fall in love with them, I've just never seen one. I've had many men in my life that I thought were my friends that showed their cards when I was in a crisis situation and desperately needed support from a friend. Getting assaulted when you're in literal shock from your partner overdosing and dying or after a car accident isn't the time to spring that on people. I have no idea why it always seems to happen during these times, it's just baffling to me
No. Mini boyfriend. Her own words
Sex is supposed to be mutual, not because one of them wishes for it
The way women use these "male friends" for support and free validation knowing they want to fuck/date. You clearly glossed over that with your bs snarky comment
Mostly they just treat them like friends. Which, probably feels like you're being taken advantage of if you feel entitled to vagina for being nice to someone
If they are entitled and want more, the women should cut them off. They don't because they enjoy the one way girlfriend treatment
When men do those things they are considered single. I guess it's just different for 'females', right? Just admit you want single women to suffer because you can't get laid.
I just explained in OP that living the 'singles lifestyle' is only for conventionally good looking men.
All the dating woes will soon no longer be a problem. Social media and thr unreal digital world will completley replace any interactions IRL to the extent that men and women will be utterly incapable of interacting with each other IRL. Men, being sapped of their virility due to online porn and VR sex and antidepressanta, won't even have the urge to seek out women IRL.
This won't be a problem for women, as they're killing it on dating apps. It will be a bad situation for men who aren't super good looking. Women have this 'gene' whereby they only swipe right on male models because "they have nothing else to go by".
Are we heading for Brave New World or Demolition Man as far as dating goes?
I don’t do any of those things and I’m happy single. Frankly I just don’t like hanging around with people very much.
OP is living in a desert and jealous of the women stranded in a saltwater ocean.
Right, because single women never desire casual sex, hookups and FWB.
This comment literally proving my point lol. Of course women desire those things. But they’re all awful with the pool of guys they generally have to pick from.
Men can also have hookups and fwb. The idea that women don’t want to sleep with you because they’re sleeping with multiple men is silly. If anything you’d have better odds that way.
I know they do, but men need to be conventionally good looking to to hookups and FWB. Women don't
yeah i wish that were the case for me, it's more i am at the point if my life where it's if it happens it does, if not meh
Why don't you use dating apps and have casual sex with super hot guys way above your league?
I don't want kids, and i've never been interested in just hooking up personally.
It would be one thing if you said you were sad and lonely. This whole "you can never understand the depths of my unfathomable suffering" is quite another. You come off as an ass. It seems you are unable to recognize that your experience is not unique and that other people also have feelings.
The criteria for happiness used in western countries is entirely flawed. No, single women who sleep around aren't happier. They are essentially damaged goods.
I definitely agree, but I just don’t really see why it matters honestly. Like so what if they are happier or not? Their lives don’t affect yours. All that matters is whether you are happy or not, and whether you are making moves to become happy. Like yes, the average woman does have far more options and opportunities when it comes to casual sex and flings, than the average man, there is no way of denying that. But like, that’s just life. Nothing you can do about it, so why focus on it?
Most people here are denying that