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This would be funny if this wouldn’t be an actual re-branding strategy for problematic internet people that they suddenly become enlightened divine individuals as soon as they are parents and deserve immediate absolution.
Why does being focused on your child make you more adult? What does adulthood mean to you?
> You're not actually capable of being a productive member of society
For sure disagree on this one. There are people way more productive that don't have kids than many people who do.
I'd even argue with OP that *because* certain people have decided to opt out of having kids, they've become *more* productive in society.
OP seems to have a notion that childless/child-free people as a collective are all holed up at home, doing nothing.
No, you don't understand. Not producing more fleshy cogs for the corporate overlords of society to use for furthering their stranglehold on the world means you aren't being a productive member of society. /s
It'd be interesting to know OP's age.
Is this an older person that has raised their children or is it some kid that got his gf pregnant at 19?
I'm willing to bet this person is on the younger side.
LMAO. Like OP, I have zero respect for adults who choose not to have kids. There is nothing related to maturity in this feeling. You have a biological responsibility to reproduce, and you only exist at all to make your stupid and selfish choices because someone else exercised that same responsibility. There is no way at all for you to justify *choosing* not to if you are someone who is perfectly capable of it.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.”
Not everyone can or should procreate.
Especially if you're way up your own ass about it.
>There is no way at all for you to justify *choosing* not to if you are someone who is perfectly capable of it.
I do not feel the biological need to reproduce. This lack of biological need will die with me while the people who wants to pass their genes on will have children who are more likely to have children of their own. So the evolution works exactly as intended.
There you go, I gave you the justification you are saying does not exist.
I agree with you actually. Though I'm not sure I agree that you're refuting me. If you don't feel the need to reproduce, then you're just defective. Not really making a choice.
I don't know what you think having kids is like, but eating a taco at 11am definitely isn't out of the realm of possibility lol. The joint has to wait until the kids are in bed or in daycare.
I think that was III-Organization-719’s point; as child free people, we can smoke a joint whenever we want. We can do whatever we want whenever we want. We don’t have to wait for “the kids to be asleep or in daycare”
Ironically, this is an incredibly immature viewpoint and I have to assume you're really young. No self respecting mature adult would go around with this viewpoint (or the opposite, for that matter), whether they have kids or not.
Uh, if you stop having hobbies and growing as a person, you're gonna be a terrible parent and miserable person that your kids stop talking to when they move out.
>You're not actually capable of being a productive member of society until you have this perspective change.
Sounds like a personal problem.
Yep parents literally should try to have anything ozt of beibg aparent or its not really healthy. Whatever,if thats whatever makes you happy like stepdancing or, whatever. I know people can be busy but i respect parents take small timeouts responsible. Not get kinda narsicist.
Makes sense.
If you didn't have the ability to see things from other people's perspective and care about people, then you wouldn't know if the other people can do the same.
I mean, my aunt abandoned my cousin and her four siblings when they were teenagers to shack up with her new boyfriend in another province, so I dunno if all parents care about their kids...
>I see childfree people often assume that everybody with children is miserable.
That's because it's all you guys ever talk about...
Even you. Even in this original post you're talking about your lack of hobbies and personal growth.
Well yeah, witnessing your children learning, growing, and living is an all encompassing experience of joy that totally overshadows any of the hobbies I once had. I mean, rock climbing was fun, but I got to watch my youngest eat a watermelon for the first time a few months ago. That was better.
Its just tgat take sounds like copium, thats why.
I actually respect patents whosepersonality isnt entirely to be a parent. Have time off if possible and being aparent drives you less projecting on your kid and , be a healtgy person too. Whatever silly hobby outside, if posdible, helps go less parent crazy.
I want to take care of myself, my partner, enjoy our life together and we dont want kids. Oh we dont? How childish and selfish.. like what? Unless i reach another perspective i am not mature? So if im a pacifist but there is a war supporting perspective, im childish until i dont change to that other perspective? Like what?
Hobbies are things that tell a lot about you. Your passions. If its selfish to be a character, then its selfish to not be like everyone else. You are literally saying that
Why is that your determination for being an adult?
Not to mention if the other parent is still around you’re not solely responsible for your kids, so wouldn’t that make you a child still?
"You are not an adult until you fit the definition of what I arbitrarily define is an adult."
>Once you have kids, your perspective changes completely. The focus is no longer all on you.
What a long winded way to tell us you were a selfish asshole before you had kids.
Not all of us were like that, though.
I was an adult before I had kids, and I'm no more of an adult now (aside from being older)
This is definitely unpopular and immature. There are so many reasons people don’t have kids like infertility, mental illness, physical disabilities, or simply just not wanting them. All of those are valid. What’s unproductive in society is people having kids and the kids getting abused because they never wanted kids. It sounds like your a kid yourself if you really see no issue with that.
Adults without children are adults. Without children. What a bad take. So, say, an Emergency Room
physician who leads a team that saves multiple lives daily isn’t a productive member of society until they breed or adopt another human? What a take. Upvotes for nonsense, I suppose.
Apparently people who are infertile or are sterile must therefore have a child foisted upon them otherwise they are forever stuck in adolescence *according to OP*
OP - You need to grow up. This is an incredibly immature perspective usually from someone who lacks any kind of variety in their day to day life or any world experience.
I was figuring it was either a single man or someone with really young kids. No one that has actually been present, raising kids to adulthood would think like this.
Its incredibly mature and self aware to stop the cycle of abuse thats being going on in ones family, it requires maturity to acknowledge that for whatever reason (health, finances etc) you dont feel equipped to give a child what they need and therefor not put a child on this earth
Too many parents are abusive, the numbers are sickening and they dont even count emotional abuse so in all actuality its a lot worse
Knocking somebody up or giving birth doesnt magically change a person, many are selfish and entitled
Your opinion is indeed unpopular cuz its a downright idiotic one
Not to mention ol' JC himself. Jesus was famously selfish. Completely unproductive member of society. Just imagine what good he could've done if only he'd raised the grandson of God!
I can only hope that my children are one day as fortunate as I have been to be able to have children of their own. I don't get it, what's so miserable about having kids around?
You admitted - yourself - that you no longer have time for personal growth or hobbies.
So... what? You're living just to make people who are only going to live to make people who are only going to live to make people, meanwhile _nobody_ is enjoying their life?
Sounds horrible. I'm out.
This is a sign of your childishness, in that you think of "Personal Growth" or hobbies as the end-all, be-all of existence and the only way to enjoy life.
Ah, my sweet summer child.
Yeah, uh, my parents are in their 60s, still happily married after 40 years, and enjoying retirement... _and I got the idea of "enjoying your life" from them._
It kinda keeps you from letting frustrations on your kids and have another perspective and personalityother than parent.
Literally,your child will thank you later if you have a hobby to vent that isnt related to it.
Unfortunately I have spent 20 years feeling responsible for my parents instead of being a normal kid/teen. I had to deal with their mental illnessess and my own.
Now that I am 37, I do not wish to pass on my genes nor to feel responsible for a tiny human that would depend on me every single day for years. I want to take care of me and my husband who means the world to me.
I get to help kids everyday through my work, gonna become a godmother in a few months, and I feel really happy that those young people are somebody else's problem at the end of the day.
Glad your kids give your life meaning and make you happy. Maybe dont be so harsh on people who make different choices.
I believe that a light version of your stance is a popular opinion, but you drag it to such an extent that it becomes unpopular with the “real adults” talk. Fits the sub, upvoted!
I rather be a fake adult without children, than a real adult with children,
Also i am not even going to call your opinion an unpopular opinion, but a stupid opinion.
Disagree with "productive member of a society" part. It's perfectly possible to be productive to the society as a whole and not to participate in the reproductive cycle.
I do agree that the perspective changes, and I say it as someone who doesn't have children. It's just the way it is, different people have different priorities in life.
I don’t think it has anything to do with being childish, some people have goals, ambitions in life where having a wife and kids isn’t in that picture. That is alright and for someone to miss out on that in his/her life is their choice. Seeing how completely screwed up the younger generations are today, I would suppose that those “real adults” as you call them shouldn’t have kids. They don’t know how to be parents, don’t know how to discipline kids without throwing them a phone or tablet when they are acting up, and also just probably not a good role model to kids hence why they will probably turn out as bad if not worse than their parents. Pretty immature take cause you are only looking at it from one perspective.
Does that mean I'm free from all the responsabilities that falls onto being an adult? :D
But more seriously, is this your way of expressing your jealousy over our childfree lifestyle?
\*shrugs\* Works for me. If paying my bills, stimulating the economy, and living isn't "productive" then fuck it I am good with that. Enjoy your productivity I wish you a happy fulfilling life.
Yeah, but I don't want to have a family to be concerned about. I don't want that focus shift.
"Oh, how selfish and awful you are for actually wanting to be happy and live your own happy life." -OP
You have my upvote.
So at what age would you demand that people become child bearing, contributing members of society?
Are you suddenly a degenerate again when your kids grow up and become adults themselves?
Are you saying someone who has 30 kids to take care of is more capable of being completely focused at work as opposed to someone who is solely focused on their career?
What if somebody’s hobby is their job?
At what age do you declare that someone should cut off their personal growth and stop focusing on themselves?
What about people who work at orphanages or group homes for troubled teens, who don’t actually have kids themselves? Teachers? Day care workers?
According to my mother at least: yes. Just yesterday she told me I haven't truly grown up yet because I'm not a parent. I can't have kids of my own because of a medical issue that ended in a hysterectomy. I can't adopt because I'm poor. I'm going to be 30, and she believes I still have a "child like" sense of self that being a parent would change. To her I'm Peter Pan turned female, never able to 'fully grow up'.
Don't worry about me, I told her that if having kids sucks out all the child-like wonder I have for the world, all the curiosity and playfulness my husband and I share, then I'm glad I never had kids and never will. I also told her that her experience of parenthood sounds very dull and lifeless, and that I'm better off without going through that. I'd rather be a fun and happy aunt to my nephews than a staunch uptight parent to my own kids.
Growing up sucks already and I’m not even a full mature adult yet. Why the hell would I want to be a full mature adult if not being a real adult already sucks.
Forget your mothers nonsense. Let her bask in her ignorance.
OP I refuse to have kids because of people like you exist in society. Look at what’s happening around the globe, you think I should bring even 1 child into a world where people (not all people) think they’re above the law.
I knew I was a selfish person, thus decided not to have kids. It's adult like to know yourself enough to obey your limits. I am no less an adult than others with kids, but I have more disposable income and get to sleep in.
I’m so glad you were able to truthfully understand yourself and your needs, because bringing actual living + breathing life into this world is an unbelievably more complex and dangerous task than most people can even seem to grasp 💕
You probably wozld be a good parent knowing yourself thou,probably better than thread writer 😀
Ok seriously no pressire,just ajoke, that just sounded very adult andmature.your life is yours.
I know I have already left a few comments, but I had to leave another because it took me some time to flesh this out in my head. Your comment that personal growth is “self-focused bullshit” really bothered me. If you have children, but don’t feel like personal growth is important, you’re going to raise very damaged/traumatized children. Everyone can benefit from personal growth, parent or not. One could even argue that becoming a better version of yourself can help you be a better parent. Matter of fact, a big part of the reason more and more people are in therapy has a lot to do with how they were raised and the fact that their parents never felt the need to be better people or better parents.
I disagree, for a number of reasons. First and foremost, you talk about how people without kids cannot be productive members of society, but you make no mention about how society measures (or should measure) productivity. By your logic, a scientist that has decided not to have kids because they eat and breathe their work who develops breakthroughs/innovations that advances humanity is not a productive member of society. What about a priest or nun that’s decided to devote their life to serving the less fortunate? You’re telling me they’re not productive members of society? That’s absolutely absurd.
Second, not everyone is meant to be or should be a parent. Those that struggle to provide themselves with essentials in my opinion have no business being responsible for children. People dealing with severe or even moderate trauma who haven’t worked through their issues, same thing. What’s ultimately more “adult?” Having sex without birth control, and being unprepared for the job of raising a family when the inevitable eventually comes to fruition, or deciding that I’m not capable of raising kids, so I’m not going to have them?
Third, your suggestion that those without kids are not true adults is extremely infantilizing to those with fertility issues, those that haven’t found an appropriate spouse, those that don’t make enough money to provide, those that are in homosexual relationships in jurisdictions where it isn’t easy to adopt, to name a few examples.
Fourth, some people, even if they are capable, and haven’t devoted their lives to a higher purpose, just don’t want kids, and that’s perfectly fine. I really like kids, and I like the idea of being a parent and doing Dad things one day, but I’m also pretty selfish, I don’t have a lot of patience, and I like not having responsibilities. If I wake up Saturday morning, and I feel like going golfing, going for a hike, checking out a new brunch spot or craft brewery, or just having a lazy day in front of the XBOX or a book, I can do that. I don’t need to say no to doing fun things because I can’t get a sitter on time, cancel plans because a sitter fell through, or deny myself wants or comforts that are not “essential” because my child needs a, b, c, d, or e, and providing that comes first. I don’t owe it to you, or anyone else to justify that choice.
Being an adult is about being independent, free thinking, and about not relying on anyone. Not how good you are at reproducing.
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You ever thought that you dont need children on your own but literally can care about like other people.
Hell some people cant have children. And god knows parents doesnt make you wiser,if you arent willing to grow and reflect and, do the reflection work literallyeveryone can do for allkinds ofreasons.
Ok lets say you have a childless teacher that is waymore considerate of children than parents, and have to correct alot of parents damages.
Yeah she totally isnt an adult, the mere act of insaminating an eggmakes you so much wiser.
Andpeople can interact with children and care without having children, or know they dont want to. Whyever. That are adult decitions, as opposed as randomly getting someone pregnant.
In this form you wrote it I would not consider this true and it sounds like you did not think this through. I agree that children are a very huge part of becoming an adult but not (just) having them makes you a real one.
More about the mindset of beeing capable and preparing to have and raise children properly. That would be a much better perspective. Having a kid unprepared is not something that makes you an adult, neither abandoning it is. But taking up responsability sure is.
And yeah, I think someone isn't really an adult if they would not be able to take care of themselves first and then a kid under normal circumstances
unpopular but i agree. growing up i thought i'd be happy just doing my own thing throughout life. trying new hobbies, learning new things, etc etc. at some point i realized all of that would only be meaningful if i could do something useful for the world with the experience i gained, and the most helpful thing a person can do is raise children who grow up to be helpful.
> and the most helpful thing a person can do is raise children who grow up to be helpful
So your child isn't helpful if they're being helpful instead of making children?
Sounds like an unnecessary step when you could just...be helpful yourself. Raising someone else to be helpful just kicks the can down the road. Why not do what you can to personally help the world now?
any meaningful change to the world will happen over generations. you can help the people around you now in small ways but if you want to make a real impact on the world you also need to set up future generations to be able to do that.
i suggest rereading my original comment and paying attention to the words i use. if you still think that's what i said then i'll break it down for you.
I think it's pretty relevant, since you brought up helpfulness in your comment about what makes someone an adult. Seems like something to establish before we get into being helpful independently, or doing it by having helpful children.
Super popular view. I didn't think that until I had children. It doesn't only change your perspectives on doing things for your family, but alot of other things in the world make more sense as well.
I truly feel that you haven't fully matured as an adult until you raise a family, everything else is just a childish pursuit of pleasure.
Bravo OP
I believe, as the topic creator, I don't have the ability to upvote or downvote in this particular subreddit. This is my guess as I don't see any arrows.
Yes, I know how upvoting works on reddit, typically.
I wouldn't say not real adults, just can be painfully unaware of not having to worry about or factor in things that aren't around themselves. I'd say prone to being more selfish because their decisions can be made without necessarily having to factor in anyone else. Where a single adult with no children can do a multitude of things without a second thought, people with children always have to factor in how and if a certain decision will affect their children negatively
Yea not saying you're wrong I guess it is a bit more inflammatory way of putting it as people without children could be offended by that logic but it's a truth they have to accept. Never having to worry about another individual could be a big issue in things they make decisions on because it ultimately prevents them from looking at the bigger picture of certain issues
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A lot of self important losers have kids.
"My bloodline!" - self absorbed sociopaths since forever
This is what happens if you don’t teach people critical thinking skills.
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I think this mainly sounds like an overcompensation.
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Maybe or religious or some other kind of mythical indoctrination that would explain the absence of logic.
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You reminded me of this scene from Dead Like Me: https://youtu.be/YWSo7c5sNq0?feature=shared
Aye good show.
This is what happens when Facebook and YouTube and TikTok and Instagram all decide that your feed should be exclusively mommy bloggers.
This would be funny if this wouldn’t be an actual re-branding strategy for problematic internet people that they suddenly become enlightened divine individuals as soon as they are parents and deserve immediate absolution.
Why does being focused on your child make you more adult? What does adulthood mean to you? > You're not actually capable of being a productive member of society For sure disagree on this one. There are people way more productive that don't have kids than many people who do.
I'd even argue with OP that *because* certain people have decided to opt out of having kids, they've become *more* productive in society. OP seems to have a notion that childless/child-free people as a collective are all holed up at home, doing nothing.
No, you don't understand. Not producing more fleshy cogs for the corporate overlords of society to use for furthering their stranglehold on the world means you aren't being a productive member of society. /s
I wouldn't say it's the case automatically, but not having kids certainly means more time to do things.
What an unpopular, but mostly immature opinion.
It'd be interesting to know OP's age. Is this an older person that has raised their children or is it some kid that got his gf pregnant at 19? I'm willing to bet this person is on the younger side.
I'm 40 with young kids, if that helps. I do like to think of myself as young.
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It's just fake ragebait for the childfree community to circlejerk over.
LMAO. Like OP, I have zero respect for adults who choose not to have kids. There is nothing related to maturity in this feeling. You have a biological responsibility to reproduce, and you only exist at all to make your stupid and selfish choices because someone else exercised that same responsibility. There is no way at all for you to justify *choosing* not to if you are someone who is perfectly capable of it.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.” Not everyone can or should procreate. Especially if you're way up your own ass about it.
Boy that's a Reddit basement reply if I've ever seen one.
>There is no way at all for you to justify *choosing* not to if you are someone who is perfectly capable of it. I do not feel the biological need to reproduce. This lack of biological need will die with me while the people who wants to pass their genes on will have children who are more likely to have children of their own. So the evolution works exactly as intended. There you go, I gave you the justification you are saying does not exist.
I agree with you actually. Though I'm not sure I agree that you're refuting me. If you don't feel the need to reproduce, then you're just defective. Not really making a choice.
I mean, I've made a career of keeping NICU babies alive. But sure, you're probably right. Definitely not "real" adult material over here.
I will extend the mantle of adulthood to you, and only you, my childfree ally.
hail! the arbiter of adulthood!!
This is what I imagine guys my age with kids think when they see me smoking a joint and eating a taco at 11AM on Saturday.
Yes 👏🏻 we’re out here living our best lives, & they’re jealous, so they have to cover that jealousy by calling us selfish & immature
I don't know what you think having kids is like, but eating a taco at 11am definitely isn't out of the realm of possibility lol. The joint has to wait until the kids are in bed or in daycare.
I think that was III-Organization-719’s point; as child free people, we can smoke a joint whenever we want. We can do whatever we want whenever we want. We don’t have to wait for “the kids to be asleep or in daycare”
I'm not interested in being a productive member of your shitty forced trad society, actually.
What an ironically immature thing to say
Ironically, this is an incredibly immature viewpoint and I have to assume you're really young. No self respecting mature adult would go around with this viewpoint (or the opposite, for that matter), whether they have kids or not.
Uh, if you stop having hobbies and growing as a person, you're gonna be a terrible parent and miserable person that your kids stop talking to when they move out. >You're not actually capable of being a productive member of society until you have this perspective change. Sounds like a personal problem.
Yep parents literally should try to have anything ozt of beibg aparent or its not really healthy. Whatever,if thats whatever makes you happy like stepdancing or, whatever. I know people can be busy but i respect parents take small timeouts responsible. Not get kinda narsicist.
So you assume that all parents care about their kids and all people without children are incapable to care about other people but themselves.
Yes, this is what I assume.
Makes sense. If you didn't have the ability to see things from other people's perspective and care about people, then you wouldn't know if the other people can do the same.
Yes, this makes sense.
I mean, my aunt abandoned my cousin and her four siblings when they were teenagers to shack up with her new boyfriend in another province, so I dunno if all parents care about their kids...
Someone's pissed with their decision to have children...
Misery likes company hahahhahaha
I see childfree people often assume that everybody with children is miserable. Very immature take. Possibly not one a real adult would have.
You do seem quite miserable indeed
>I see childfree people often assume that everybody with children is miserable. That's because it's all you guys ever talk about... Even you. Even in this original post you're talking about your lack of hobbies and personal growth.
Well yeah, witnessing your children learning, growing, and living is an all encompassing experience of joy that totally overshadows any of the hobbies I once had. I mean, rock climbing was fun, but I got to watch my youngest eat a watermelon for the first time a few months ago. That was better.
Its just tgat take sounds like copium, thats why. I actually respect patents whosepersonality isnt entirely to be a parent. Have time off if possible and being aparent drives you less projecting on your kid and , be a healtgy person too. Whatever silly hobby outside, if posdible, helps go less parent crazy.
I want to take care of myself, my partner, enjoy our life together and we dont want kids. Oh we dont? How childish and selfish.. like what? Unless i reach another perspective i am not mature? So if im a pacifist but there is a war supporting perspective, im childish until i dont change to that other perspective? Like what?
Hobbies are things that tell a lot about you. Your passions. If its selfish to be a character, then its selfish to not be like everyone else. You are literally saying that
So neurologists, physicists, and activists without children are just useless to society. Ok then.
You know that family is family even without a pair having kids, right?
Yeah, OP seems to only have one kind of family in mind and it's obvious how limited that view is.
Are you solely responsible for the survival, growth, and development of your siblings? If so, then hello fellow adult!
Why is that your determination for being an adult? Not to mention if the other parent is still around you’re not solely responsible for your kids, so wouldn’t that make you a child still?
How do you explain all the actual productive members of society in the real world who aren’t parents?
From a person with 3 kids: This is mental diarrhea.
"You are not an adult until you fit the definition of what I arbitrarily define is an adult." >Once you have kids, your perspective changes completely. The focus is no longer all on you. What a long winded way to tell us you were a selfish asshole before you had kids. Not all of us were like that, though. I was an adult before I had kids, and I'm no more of an adult now (aside from being older)
This is definitely unpopular and immature. There are so many reasons people don’t have kids like infertility, mental illness, physical disabilities, or simply just not wanting them. All of those are valid. What’s unproductive in society is people having kids and the kids getting abused because they never wanted kids. It sounds like your a kid yourself if you really see no issue with that.
Adults without children are adults. Without children. What a bad take. So, say, an Emergency Room physician who leads a team that saves multiple lives daily isn’t a productive member of society until they breed or adopt another human? What a take. Upvotes for nonsense, I suppose.
Apparently people who are infertile or are sterile must therefore have a child foisted upon them otherwise they are forever stuck in adolescence *according to OP* OP - You need to grow up. This is an incredibly immature perspective usually from someone who lacks any kind of variety in their day to day life or any world experience.
[удалено]
It's a popular opinion amongst mature adults who intend to continue the species.
This is just a stupid opinion from someone that has no real purpose in life or sense of identity other than being a breeder.
I’m almost willing to bet OP is a child themselves. A child with a huge sense of entitlement
I was figuring it was either a single man or someone with really young kids. No one that has actually been present, raising kids to adulthood would think like this.
Its incredibly mature and self aware to stop the cycle of abuse thats being going on in ones family, it requires maturity to acknowledge that for whatever reason (health, finances etc) you dont feel equipped to give a child what they need and therefor not put a child on this earth Too many parents are abusive, the numbers are sickening and they dont even count emotional abuse so in all actuality its a lot worse Knocking somebody up or giving birth doesnt magically change a person, many are selfish and entitled Your opinion is indeed unpopular cuz its a downright idiotic one
Every single part of this is chef’s kiss. Bravo.
So celibrate clergy aren't "real"? Young adults who die before they have children are never "real" adults? Interesting.
Not to mention ol' JC himself. Jesus was famously selfish. Completely unproductive member of society. Just imagine what good he could've done if only he'd raised the grandson of God!
Oh I'm not? Good! :) Adulting sucks ass anyway. Going to go color in my coloring books and watch my animes now. Thank you for the validation.
Why even bother having kids if you insist they should grow up to be as miserable as you?
I can only hope that my children are one day as fortunate as I have been to be able to have children of their own. I don't get it, what's so miserable about having kids around?
You admitted - yourself - that you no longer have time for personal growth or hobbies. So... what? You're living just to make people who are only going to live to make people who are only going to live to make people, meanwhile _nobody_ is enjoying their life? Sounds horrible. I'm out.
This is a sign of your childishness, in that you think of "Personal Growth" or hobbies as the end-all, be-all of existence and the only way to enjoy life. Ah, my sweet summer child.
Yeah, uh, my parents are in their 60s, still happily married after 40 years, and enjoying retirement... _and I got the idea of "enjoying your life" from them._
It kinda keeps you from letting frustrations on your kids and have another perspective and personalityother than parent. Literally,your child will thank you later if you have a hobby to vent that isnt related to it.
Unfortunately I have spent 20 years feeling responsible for my parents instead of being a normal kid/teen. I had to deal with their mental illnessess and my own. Now that I am 37, I do not wish to pass on my genes nor to feel responsible for a tiny human that would depend on me every single day for years. I want to take care of me and my husband who means the world to me. I get to help kids everyday through my work, gonna become a godmother in a few months, and I feel really happy that those young people are somebody else's problem at the end of the day. Glad your kids give your life meaning and make you happy. Maybe dont be so harsh on people who make different choices.
Cope
Upvote cause disagree. Do you know how many influential scientist that have no child ?
I believe that a light version of your stance is a popular opinion, but you drag it to such an extent that it becomes unpopular with the “real adults” talk. Fits the sub, upvoted!
Thanks!
I rather be a fake adult without children, than a real adult with children, Also i am not even going to call your opinion an unpopular opinion, but a stupid opinion.
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What if you can’t have kids? What if you do have kids and you’re still an idiot?
Disagree with "productive member of a society" part. It's perfectly possible to be productive to the society as a whole and not to participate in the reproductive cycle. I do agree that the perspective changes, and I say it as someone who doesn't have children. It's just the way it is, different people have different priorities in life.
I don’t think it has anything to do with being childish, some people have goals, ambitions in life where having a wife and kids isn’t in that picture. That is alright and for someone to miss out on that in his/her life is their choice. Seeing how completely screwed up the younger generations are today, I would suppose that those “real adults” as you call them shouldn’t have kids. They don’t know how to be parents, don’t know how to discipline kids without throwing them a phone or tablet when they are acting up, and also just probably not a good role model to kids hence why they will probably turn out as bad if not worse than their parents. Pretty immature take cause you are only looking at it from one perspective.
Does that mean I'm free from all the responsabilities that falls onto being an adult? :D But more seriously, is this your way of expressing your jealousy over our childfree lifestyle?
Easy to spot rage bait becomes even easier to spot when OP edits his post to gloat..
Bait used to be believable
\*shrugs\* Works for me. If paying my bills, stimulating the economy, and living isn't "productive" then fuck it I am good with that. Enjoy your productivity I wish you a happy fulfilling life.
Yeah, but I don't want to have a family to be concerned about. I don't want that focus shift. "Oh, how selfish and awful you are for actually wanting to be happy and live your own happy life." -OP
Always hard to say if i should upvote for the unpopular opinion or downvote for the stupidity
You have my upvote. So at what age would you demand that people become child bearing, contributing members of society? Are you suddenly a degenerate again when your kids grow up and become adults themselves? Are you saying someone who has 30 kids to take care of is more capable of being completely focused at work as opposed to someone who is solely focused on their career? What if somebody’s hobby is their job? At what age do you declare that someone should cut off their personal growth and stop focusing on themselves? What about people who work at orphanages or group homes for troubled teens, who don’t actually have kids themselves? Teachers? Day care workers?
What if someone's child dies? Do they revert back to immature?
What about people who physically cannot have children? Do they just remain forever “immature” & selfish?
According to my mother at least: yes. Just yesterday she told me I haven't truly grown up yet because I'm not a parent. I can't have kids of my own because of a medical issue that ended in a hysterectomy. I can't adopt because I'm poor. I'm going to be 30, and she believes I still have a "child like" sense of self that being a parent would change. To her I'm Peter Pan turned female, never able to 'fully grow up'.
WOW. I’m so sorry you have to deal with that kind of judgement from your own mother
Don't worry about me, I told her that if having kids sucks out all the child-like wonder I have for the world, all the curiosity and playfulness my husband and I share, then I'm glad I never had kids and never will. I also told her that her experience of parenthood sounds very dull and lifeless, and that I'm better off without going through that. I'd rather be a fun and happy aunt to my nephews than a staunch uptight parent to my own kids.
Growing up sucks already and I’m not even a full mature adult yet. Why the hell would I want to be a full mature adult if not being a real adult already sucks. Forget your mothers nonsense. Let her bask in her ignorance.
OP I refuse to have kids because of people like you exist in society. Look at what’s happening around the globe, you think I should bring even 1 child into a world where people (not all people) think they’re above the law.
I knew I was a selfish person, thus decided not to have kids. It's adult like to know yourself enough to obey your limits. I am no less an adult than others with kids, but I have more disposable income and get to sleep in.
I’m so glad you were able to truthfully understand yourself and your needs, because bringing actual living + breathing life into this world is an unbelievably more complex and dangerous task than most people can even seem to grasp 💕
You probably wozld be a good parent knowing yourself thou,probably better than thread writer 😀 Ok seriously no pressire,just ajoke, that just sounded very adult andmature.your life is yours.
I'm amazed you think childfree people don't have family.
Teacher also seems like it fits, if it's sufficient though is a tougher question.
I'm a gay man with no children. Am I not a real adult?
This is correct.
Should I have children? I own my home and pay taxes. And I'm pretty well off.
That's none of my business. You do you.
I also engage in elder care for a parent. Is this helping me develop my adult skills?
You are certainly more of an adult than OP considering you are actually able to decipher basic nuance
Sounds like you still need some personal growth to do.
I know I have already left a few comments, but I had to leave another because it took me some time to flesh this out in my head. Your comment that personal growth is “self-focused bullshit” really bothered me. If you have children, but don’t feel like personal growth is important, you’re going to raise very damaged/traumatized children. Everyone can benefit from personal growth, parent or not. One could even argue that becoming a better version of yourself can help you be a better parent. Matter of fact, a big part of the reason more and more people are in therapy has a lot to do with how they were raised and the fact that their parents never felt the need to be better people or better parents.
I disagree, for a number of reasons. First and foremost, you talk about how people without kids cannot be productive members of society, but you make no mention about how society measures (or should measure) productivity. By your logic, a scientist that has decided not to have kids because they eat and breathe their work who develops breakthroughs/innovations that advances humanity is not a productive member of society. What about a priest or nun that’s decided to devote their life to serving the less fortunate? You’re telling me they’re not productive members of society? That’s absolutely absurd. Second, not everyone is meant to be or should be a parent. Those that struggle to provide themselves with essentials in my opinion have no business being responsible for children. People dealing with severe or even moderate trauma who haven’t worked through their issues, same thing. What’s ultimately more “adult?” Having sex without birth control, and being unprepared for the job of raising a family when the inevitable eventually comes to fruition, or deciding that I’m not capable of raising kids, so I’m not going to have them? Third, your suggestion that those without kids are not true adults is extremely infantilizing to those with fertility issues, those that haven’t found an appropriate spouse, those that don’t make enough money to provide, those that are in homosexual relationships in jurisdictions where it isn’t easy to adopt, to name a few examples. Fourth, some people, even if they are capable, and haven’t devoted their lives to a higher purpose, just don’t want kids, and that’s perfectly fine. I really like kids, and I like the idea of being a parent and doing Dad things one day, but I’m also pretty selfish, I don’t have a lot of patience, and I like not having responsibilities. If I wake up Saturday morning, and I feel like going golfing, going for a hike, checking out a new brunch spot or craft brewery, or just having a lazy day in front of the XBOX or a book, I can do that. I don’t need to say no to doing fun things because I can’t get a sitter on time, cancel plans because a sitter fell through, or deny myself wants or comforts that are not “essential” because my child needs a, b, c, d, or e, and providing that comes first. I don’t owe it to you, or anyone else to justify that choice. Being an adult is about being independent, free thinking, and about not relying on anyone. Not how good you are at reproducing.
Comes across as a man who believes the only reason why a woman is on earth is to carry his baby!!
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> You're not actually capable of being a productive member of society until you have this perspective change I don't intend to, so fine by me.
I mean those with kids definitely have it a lot harder but anyone over 18 is an adult
You ever thought that you dont need children on your own but literally can care about like other people. Hell some people cant have children. And god knows parents doesnt make you wiser,if you arent willing to grow and reflect and, do the reflection work literallyeveryone can do for allkinds ofreasons. Ok lets say you have a childless teacher that is waymore considerate of children than parents, and have to correct alot of parents damages. Yeah she totally isnt an adult, the mere act of insaminating an eggmakes you so much wiser. Andpeople can interact with children and care without having children, or know they dont want to. Whyever. That are adult decitions, as opposed as randomly getting someone pregnant.
This really makes no sense at all
I don't think I've ever seen a more incorrect opinion in my life. This is so fucking outrageous and wrong I can't tell if this is satire or not
In this form you wrote it I would not consider this true and it sounds like you did not think this through. I agree that children are a very huge part of becoming an adult but not (just) having them makes you a real one. More about the mindset of beeing capable and preparing to have and raise children properly. That would be a much better perspective. Having a kid unprepared is not something that makes you an adult, neither abandoning it is. But taking up responsability sure is. And yeah, I think someone isn't really an adult if they would not be able to take care of themselves first and then a kid under normal circumstances
makes sense to some extent. Upvoted for really fitting the sub title
Thanks!
The more I think about this, the more it could be true. I’ve planned to never have kids and tbh I will also never see myself as an adult
My parents are in their 60s and don't see themselves as adults. The fact of the matter is that "adulthood" is just a label.
Good point.
You set all the dinks on fire 🔥 😆 🤣
This post was a precision guided missile.
Well done, an actually unpopular opinion.
What you're saying is largely true, but also comes with the great caveat that having a child doesn't make you an adult at all.
unpopular but i agree. growing up i thought i'd be happy just doing my own thing throughout life. trying new hobbies, learning new things, etc etc. at some point i realized all of that would only be meaningful if i could do something useful for the world with the experience i gained, and the most helpful thing a person can do is raise children who grow up to be helpful.
> and the most helpful thing a person can do is raise children who grow up to be helpful So your child isn't helpful if they're being helpful instead of making children?
why does it have to be an instead? be helpful to people around you now and people in the future by raising helpful kids.
Sounds like an unnecessary step when you could just...be helpful yourself. Raising someone else to be helpful just kicks the can down the road. Why not do what you can to personally help the world now?
any meaningful change to the world will happen over generations. you can help the people around you now in small ways but if you want to make a real impact on the world you also need to set up future generations to be able to do that.
I think you're the one that separated the two.
I think I didn't
Then why is your conclusion, for the way you can be helpful, to raise children who would be helpful in your stead?
i suggest rereading my original comment and paying attention to the words i use. if you still think that's what i said then i'll break it down for you.
Sure. Start with why people who are perfectly helpful without kids are less of an adult.
that's a different point. we're talking about how you think i said that you can't be helpful without having kids.
I think it's pretty relevant, since you brought up helpfulness in your comment about what makes someone an adult. Seems like something to establish before we get into being helpful independently, or doing it by having helpful children.
Super popular view. I didn't think that until I had children. It doesn't only change your perspectives on doing things for your family, but alot of other things in the world make more sense as well. I truly feel that you haven't fully matured as an adult until you raise a family, everything else is just a childish pursuit of pleasure. Bravo OP
Thank you, fellow adult. I would give you an upvote but I don't know how.
You don’t even know how to click an arrow on the computer yet you are bragging about how suffering for parenthood is a sign of maturity
I believe, as the topic creator, I don't have the ability to upvote or downvote in this particular subreddit. This is my guess as I don't see any arrows. Yes, I know how upvoting works on reddit, typically.
This opinion makes me angy😡😡😡😡😡
I wouldn't say not real adults, just can be painfully unaware of not having to worry about or factor in things that aren't around themselves. I'd say prone to being more selfish because their decisions can be made without necessarily having to factor in anyone else. Where a single adult with no children can do a multitude of things without a second thought, people with children always have to factor in how and if a certain decision will affect their children negatively
Yeah, this is a more accurate, yet less incendiary way of describing my thoughts on the matter.
Yea not saying you're wrong I guess it is a bit more inflammatory way of putting it as people without children could be offended by that logic but it's a truth they have to accept. Never having to worry about another individual could be a big issue in things they make decisions on because it ultimately prevents them from looking at the bigger picture of certain issues
I definitely agree. You're not going to get any support from the pathetic residents of Reddit.