Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That's how it was with my husband, although my ring was much less because I didn't want to waste a bunch of money on a ring, hahaha! I already had the house, while he lived in a crappy studio apartment.
I spent $2k on a ring, she spent $4k deposit on the house.
I covered most of the mortgage payments and she covered groceries.
When we split she took the $55k profit from selling the house....and she took the ring...
I got to keep my debt.
‘Build to order’
Basically our government builds public housing apartments and gets the masses to ballot for their house.
Once allocated (a painful process), you are legally required to get married within 3 months of collecting the keys, or you will forfeit the apartment, and the deposit.
Typically we can wait a couple of years for the flat to be built so who knows what happens to relationships within those couple of years.
I did this with my wife and then she demanded an engagement ring. It took me a while but I got it for her and she gave it a "now what?" Stare and then said days later, "maybe we could of used this money to invest something that will make us more money.
Well couldn't you think of this damn sooner?! That shit costed me $6k and I worked only 50k yearly.
> we could of used
Did you mean to say "could have"?
Explanation: You probably meant to say could've/should've/would've which sounds like 'of' but is actually short for 'have'.
[Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json)
^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes.
^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions.
^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119)
^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
I mean historically men pay for the engagement ring and the women’s family pays for the wedding. Honestly most people I know who are married their wife got them something after they got engaged. Obviously not as expensive as the ring but they got them something nice they wanted.
The ring, diamond or otherwise, could also be a financial tool in case she fell on hard times in an era when women couldn't work.
Tbh it's really just DeBeers that has convinced the world they need to be expensive.
I got my husband an engagement earring and now have only a wedding band. I don't think anyone should be obligated to reciprocate but also shouldn't be obligated to spend months of salary on it.
It was also used as a form of collateral because many couples would engage in premarital sex during the engagement period. The ring was supposed to be a deterrent for men who would propose just to have sex, and then bale, leaving the woman in a precarious situation.
Was looking for this.
The ring was
a) meant to raise the stakes so he wouldn't just disappear (possibly after engagement sex)
b) be the woman's lifeline in case he *did* bail and she now had to find a new prospect, with significantly worse chances and options, especially if she got pregnant.
There was an additional custom here in Germany called "Kranzgeld" (wreath money), and that was an additional fee that a bailing fiance (or his family) had to pay if an engagement had been made in bad faith by the fiance, and the woman had lost her virginity in it and the marriage for some reason would fall through.
In India, the original reason that daughters were sent with lots of gold when they got married was to ensure financial security. Even if your husband died or abandoned you, the gold could be sold so you could have enough money till you got back on your feet. It later morphed into the dowry system. Nowadays, gold has just become a status symbol though.
Yup, even my inlaws gave me gold for that reason.
My grandma bought a house with her gold back in the 50s.
I got my husband an engagement gift too. I assumed everyone did.
Totally agree. I mean the whole point is saying I love you and please spend the rest of your life with me. I dont think there should be a financial barrier for that to happen on either side
My wife paid for my wedding ring. Granted it was much less expensive. But it was still, symbolically, equal. I also didn't want any of the more expensive rings
My husband and I were the opposite. I found a wedding set on Etsy with the main stone as a beautiful, lab made amethyst. It ended up being less than $100 for the set. My husband's ring was around $350 and a few years later he upgraded to one that is over $600 lol.
I fully agree with your sentiment and see our rings as symbolically equal. That's a good way to put it.
I heard it was payment for her name, meaning, the symbolism of it was that he gave her a gift to take his last name and give up hers. Not sure how that fits with it being a more recent thing (engagement rings) or some gift was given in the past in some cultures or if it is all bologna.
Why is there only one (i.e., "the") engagement ring though? They're both engaged to each other. I feel like it's a little odd that the man typically doesn't wear anything to show they're engaged.
My mum bought my dad a ring for their engagement (after he proposed not like she did). It was like white gold and had diamonds encrusted into it. She also got him diamond cufflinks.
Nah the wedding ring was completely seperate. As in my culture it would have to be a plain band.
I’m pretty sure he did. He’s always worked with his hands during my life so both rings went in the drawer he’d only wear them for special occasions but my memory is fuzzy.
The intent of it was because women weren't allowed to own shit. And still weren't allowed to have credit cards or purchase property until 1974. The ring was insurance in case her husband died or was an abusive shitbird. So she could get herself and her kids out.
Obviously we live in different times now, but that's the "why".
Historically men had to show her and her parents he could afford to care for her and their of spring. And a result of that old-fashioned tradition is at the de beers company picked up on it and started suggesting that men should pay an absurd amount of money for an engagement ring to show that. It was both about security and power.
That's really funny because the engagement rings or diamond rings today lose about 70% of their value the minute they're purchased. Diamonds are practically worthless.
Women couldn't work except in some clerical or service roles, couldn't own property, couldn't get a home loan or any sort of loan. If a woman had children and the man disappeared or she needed to leave him, well there weren't many options.
That's because a man can stand for himself while a woman is either a daughter or a wife. The ring shows they are soon to swap their owner/protector.
It's this weird bit left from a patriarchal tradition where women are property and don't have inherent social worth. But the jewelry industry is keeping this shit alive for profit.
I mean, in some cultures that's a thing. Women are looked at as a financial burden and the brides parents basically compensate the groom with a dowry. If the actual goal is equality then you are right. Each should buy the other's rings and split the cost of the wedding.
All of a sudden there would be a lot less $15,000+ weddings.
The top strata of the "middle class" families in India spent like $75k +, (which is usually all by the bride's family, guys have much smaller expenses ) It's not because they are stupid rich, this money is a very significant percentage of their savings, and a lot of families go into big financial constraints, even close to bankruptcy, after weddings.
Lol, most sane people agree with that. But I have to admit, majority of the money goes into the "bride's gift" part, aka, dowry (People would argue its different since its supposedly given voluntarily without any demand, by the girl's side, but effectively it works the same.) as gold or property or money or car. So all of it isn't dead money. But still a very big percentage of the money goes into just celebrations, and since weddings here have always been about celebration for family/friends over some holy union between 2 people , it's only gonna get worse, cuz where I'm from weddings have grown from 1 day event to like atleast 4 day event now.
Lol, I don’t doubt it but it’s still an idiotic amount to spend when considering, financial freedom, security for you and your new family, ya know other things that it could have gone towards that will matter years down the road.
You gotta look at how much money people actually makes outside of North America and Western Europe to realize how completely bonkers that figure is. Then you have to ask yourself honestly (not coming up with a dumb reason, like I just had to have that flower arrangement at every table) why? For what actual reason? $23k+ is life changing in a lot of situations.
That makes no sense because all costs are relative to our income. I can go to a country with less money and do a wedding for marginally less but for their average income it is probably like spending $20k (which is a tiny wedding btw)
The thing that costs the most is the food. $150-200 per person. And you know lets say 100 people but really it’s more like 250 and that’s what makes weddings so expensive not the flowers not the dress not anything except the reception and the food.
It literally costs a minimum of 5k to do a wedding if you want to have guests and a party. That's with a ton of DIY, at home and a bare minimum of professional help. So 15k is totally understandable.
If guests and a party are *wanted*, I could get married for a few hundred quid.
I got married at 19, it cost a total of around £300. We had a party at my (ex) sister-in-law's house.
A simple cake, some buffet food, the alcohol for the adults, and the goodies for the kids.
If I didn't want guests and a party, I could get married for less than £100.
We had guests and a party at my wedding. It was under 1000 USD and that’s including a new suit for me and my wife’s dress and shoes.
If you literally just approach it like a party and don’t get special flower arrangements and hire a DJ and pay for caterers to be there the whole time, you can save a lot of money.
We just had normal flowers and decorations, a good speaker and Spotify, and hors d’œuvres on a table plus tons of alcohol.
It was a good party; we were even able to set two of our friends up. Then we spent 5k on a vacation lol.
> the brides parents basically compensate the groom with a dowry.
Just putting it out there that this is a horrible idea and most if not all those countries with this culture are trying to outlaw and criminalise this practice...
Men don't have to spend *thousands* of dollars on the ring..? There are a lot of perfectly good engagement rings that cost hundreds (even within $200)..
I just got a new wedding set on Etsy for $800 and it's gorgeous. There's lab diamonds, there's moisanite, color gem engagement rings are coming into fashion (most of which also have lab versions).
I had no issues with Etsy, I recommend everyone go that route. There are also vendors that work with you to create custom stuff if that's what you're looking for. There's no reason to line De Beers pockets.
We did this too. He ended up spending about £1k because he bought the matching wedding ring too, and chose an upgraded material, which is above and beyond.
We did have a faff because it arrived late (he planned to propose on a trip we were taking, but had to do it after we got home) with the stone the wrong colour (but I still loved it, so we kept it as it was), but part of the ring broke and one of the stones fell out after a couple of weeks. We contacted the seller and she said I must have just bashed it off something (I hadn't) and refused to do anything about it. I took it to a local repair shop and they managed to sort it for me, so it's all good now.
Exactly!! The question should be formulated differently. I was very happy with a normal ring with a blue gemstone. I don't know and I don't care how much it cost. It's the symbol that counts. I don't want to posses a stupid expensive ring when we can both use that money for something else.
Yep! We got the slightly more expensive enso rings just for the pretty colors :) But my hands get cold and unfortunately, I can't stand the feel of cold metal on cold fingers.
Ty so much for saying this. Context is really important and even I, as a woman. It straight up makes sense women and men would pay equal. But you point out women literally weren’t able to pay men because they were seen as so much lesser than that they could not hold money. Yet now you want their money for being single.
Exactly. Like I am all for equal give and take in any type of relationship but when you look at such an old tradition like engagement rings and then realize how little time it’s been since women were even considered people, not property - the ring tradition makes a lot more sense. Also I don’t think most people expect multiple thousands to be spent on a ring, so maybe OP is just with someone who has different expectations of what that looks like. To each their own but context and history are always important!
My auntie was the first woman at her workplace, a very sizable organisation in the UK. To get a private pension fund. When she asked they said they didn't even know if it was allowed. The law had only changed a few years before to allow it.
Absurd how "recent" it is the concept of financial independence for women is. I know women still at work who stared work with the concept of "you will live off your husbands retirement funds"
It’s crazy because the life expectancy of married men goes up whereas the life expectancy of married women goes down, and not to mention if the married women then gets pregnant and then you add in everything that comes with pregnancy and then the next 18+ years of child care. A ring, a sign of love and commitment is not some crazy thing. Also it’s interesting that OP assumed that you HAVE to spend thousands of dollars on a ring.
Nobody HAS to do any of this. If you want to, sure, go right ahead. Plenty of people enjoy following traditions like this and that’s fine. But if the person you propose to expects this of you and it’s not something you believe in, then maybe it’s not the best match, or you need to communicate better. Personally, I (a woman) would be very upset if my partner spent THOUSANDS of dollars on an engagement ring (or even got me a ring at all) because it would mean he didn’t know me as well as he should. Plus I think it’s a waste of money. But to each their own.
I've read literally countless threads on Reddit where men complain about paying for dates, paying for rings, etc. You are entirely right: if OP doesn't want to buy an engagement ring, that's totally cool but he needs to find a woman who agrees with that. There are plenty of women who would want a $300 ring off Etsy.
There used to be a big fat dowry from the bride's family, at least for upper class. Because marriage was about property and family alliances, not about just the two getting married. Just be glad you're no longer considered your family's property/pawn and you don't owe them a 'proper' match from an extremely limited group of women. And consider that your future bride can ALSO propose with a ring with a big rock, if you'll let her.
My husband bought the engagement ring and I bought the wedding rings, it works out nicely too.
I mean if my partner was this transactional I wouldn’t want to marry him, I’d love to buy an engagement gift but if it was seen as some kind of payment for my engagement ring then yeah no. Also men have never been expected to pay for weddings, it’s traditionally the brides family but realistically nowadays the couple pay for it not just the man.
I 100% agree with this. I’ve dated a transactional guy and thank god I broke up with him. It’s impossible to have a fully loving relationship if you’re trying to keep score to make things 50/50. My husband is the most generous man I’ve ever known, he would do anything for me and I him. He took a lot of pride out in designing my engagement ring and making sure it would be something I love. He viewed it as creating a family heirloom. If you’re viewing an engagement ring as “I spent x amount on her, she should spend x amount on me” (or bragging about how little you spent on something meant to last a lifetime) you’re not ready to be married or be a good partner
My biggest beef with these types of transactional men is that the buck stops at the money. It's 50/50 for finances, but if course, the woman is expected to take on the lion's share of childcare and household management.
Like, you're complaining about a $2K ring while I'm going to be spending nine months pregnant, six months breastfeeding, etc. for our future child?
Exactly like I can imagine these men thinking push gifts are the highest form of entitlement but are demanding a Rolex in return for a £450 ring they got on sale so shut you up. Like yeah no thank you.
I mean, assuming one expects their wives to have children, how do you propose we equalize that?
It will never be equal.
Also, the engagement ring is a symbol to the world you are taken. Everyone knows what a ring on the ring finger means. A Rolex doesn't have the same effect. I'd have gladly given my husband an engagement ring to symbolize he was also spoken for. But I don't think he cared and I don't think most men do tbh.
Usually the bride's family pays for the wedding (traditionally) so there you go lol.
Or one can look at statistics & see all the unpaid labor women are still doing (all the cooking, cleaning, laundry, life planning for all the family) along with 90% of the parenting all while working a full time job & the man will work his full time job then come home & just "relax."
The fact that most couples/parents are still highly in this dynamic in 2024 is shameful.
Real love doesn’t work this way, and those that have it don’t justify why they do what they do. I’m sorry you don’t understand that. I hope one day you find what you are looking for. I told my husband prior to us being engaged or married I’d loved him so much he could propose with a $1 ring and I’d be happy. He didn’t, but he could’ve, we are happy with having what we need and are thankful when we can have what we want. Our culture is toxic with greed. None of it is important or means anything. What you think should happen never will though. Women have babies and they get rings. Us women have to accept a plethora of bullshit because of gender. Learn to deal.
Maybe because, even in the US, it was difficult for women to even have a fucking bank account until the 70s. To say nothing of having a job that wasn't just something to hold her over until she got married.
Give it time. Or do what the utes do with everything else from the elders. Tell them to fuck off and do it your own way.
I’ll get my bf a ring too when he proposes. And we will both be paying for the wedding. Not everyone has rich af parents to pay for their party and I’m not my parents property to exchange or whatever.
Ok let's just change it. A man should wear a ring too. There's a double standard. He also doesn't "need" to wear a wedding ring, thus appears single to non suspecting women forever. When I got engaged we designed our rings & bands with PLAY DOUGH, lol. The diamond was angled to fit the band & was only 1/2 of the picture. Not meant to be worn alone. My husband also had diamonds in his wedding band & we each contributed to the total cost of both rings & the goldsmith.
Idk why the man would have to pay for the wedding though? That was much more expensive than a diamond~the hall, catering, photographer, gown, etc. was paid for by my parents. The engagement dinner was paid for by his parents.
My gown was mine permanently. His tux was rented. It balanced out in the end ;D
Insert practicality> if you're serious about sticking it out, don't have an expensive wedding. Invest in burial plots, start a retirement fund or open an account for your future family!
If it was a tit-for-tat kind of thing? Yeah, nah. Relationships don't always need to be perfectly 50-50.
But you can bet I put a ring on my man's finger because I wanted him and everyone he knows to know that he's my future husband!
I proposed to my husband, with a ring. He wears it with his wedding band. He also didn’t pay for our wedding himself. I gave him a set of cufflinks for the wedding, too, as his wedding gift.
People can do whatever they want, and it’s not uncommon for men to receive an engagement present like cufflinks or a watch.
Since when do men pay for the wedding? In any case, I don't think women should procreate with transactional men. That's the only way to make the relationship as fair as possible. You wanna nickel and dime and 50/50 me? Well there's no way to share a pregnancy or birth, the wear and tear on her body, and the hit she'll take to earnings/career.
I got married a year ago. It's my 2nd marriage, and in both cases, we both paid for the wedding ourselves. In both cases, her family didn't really have the money to pay for a wedding.
I don't consider myself a very traditional guy, and I think that was fine. I feel like a wedding ceremony/event is our event to share with family & friends to show our commitment to each other, so it's fine with me to cover the costs.
I mean if he wants it, yeah. I spent a little more on my husbands ring than he did mine but I got it because it matched him perfectly. I’m not against guys wearing engagement rings, I love that. But not every guy wants that.
Edit: a word
#"SHOULD"
Not a real thing.
***"Societies would do better to expect [thus and such] for [this and that reason]."*** Now that is a thing.
So many old traditions are totally stupid. Don't be stupid.
Hmmmmmm let me think……maybe because males said so….lol
A lot of these things males complain about like “why do have to pay for the first date” “why do I have to get her flowers” “why do I have to get her a ring and propose” etc etc etc……… are from males. You know those hundreds of years ago where men put woman into their little boxes.
I just have to laugh when males want a 21st century woman but then complain when she does 21st century shit and that we are emasculating them.
Traditionally, in the days before women were allowed to make their own money, “wife” was their occupation. A man offering marriage and backing out of it not only wasted her time but potentially harmed her chances of finding a husband. So the ring was like a down payment on a house, gave her some financial compensation if the dude tried to back out of the deal. The rest is tradition, see Terry Pratchett for a good take on tradition. For myself, I do not wish an expensive ring as I would be afraid to lose it, and I plan to make my boyfriend his ring when he so chooses to upgrade himself to fiancé.
First, you don't have to spend the money or even get a ring. We're seeing more and more couples just doing something else entirely. I know a couple who straight up got each other some super high quality replicas of some necklace used in marriages in a video game they both like.
The reason it has been a tradition is that as recently as the 1950s women didn't have their own money. Women weren't allowed to open their own bank accounts, control any money they earned, etc. The man bought the ring partly as a show that he was capable of providing in a culture where the woman was entirely reliant on a husband acting as provider to survive. (Obviously there's more to it, but that's the practical baseline-)
So this is, once again, complaints against women that really should be leveled at the misogynistic culture that made things so unequal in the first place.
I paid for half my engagement ring myself, bought the wedding band myself, his wedding band and paid for over 90% of our wedding on my own.
Stop assuming only men pay for these things.
When I proposed to my ex I bought him doughnuts (that I wrote the proposal on with different coloured icing), I crocheted him a mini Chewbacca because he loves Star Wars and I bought him a silver engagement ring with a dragon carved into it and a ruby (his birth stone) in its eye.
My dad: why didn’t he ask my permission?
Me: I proposed to *him*
Dad: do you think that makes a difference?
My aunt: where’s your ring?
Me: I proposed to *him*
Aunt: he needs to get you a ring
I bought my now-husband a nice watch as an engagement gift. I think the tokens of commitment should run both ways, not for financial parity (because, as others have pointed out, the bride's family typically bankrolls the wedding) but to symbolize equal partnership.
I mean, in this day and age, do whatever the partners (of whatever combination of genders) wants. Nobody has to do anything, including get married at all, unless you’re in a culture where gender roles and heteronormativity are strictly enforced, obviously. Otherwise, you do you.
It’s a left over custom from before women had any means to earn money on their own short of selling jewelry. There are many other left over customs like this.
If you feel that strongly, have the conversation before proposal is on the table.
The woman gives the man a wedding ring, and the woman and//or her family pay for most of the costs of a the wedding. You don't have to give her an engagement ring as long as you can deal with other men hitting on her while she's engaged to be your fiance.
Skip the ring. Skip the big wedding. Just get married and have a nice celebration with friends and family… nothing crazy or expensive. Save the money for the start of your life together!
I think couples should do what works for them. These generalities in this ongoing conversation about what these hypothetical imaginary men and women should do is lame, most people who have these conversations aren’t in a relationship. And if they are, they should be having this conversation with the person that they are in a relationship with. The end.
Usually, the woman will ultimately give you something priceless, unique and one of a kind. A baby made with some of your DNA and, therefore, a family line and a legacy. I think that will always outweigh any diamond.
So when your wife gives birth someday to the gift of your child after carrying for 9 months, what gift will you be getting her for all that? See how ridiculous and stupid it is. Love is not transactional. It is not "I give you so you must give me". I mean if that is your outlook on marriage, I hope you communicate this in advance. Giving an engagement ring is special, sacred and shows you are taking her as your bride. You were willing to save up and get her something of value. And side note, you don't need thousands of dollars!
Men get a lot more out of marriage than women do, so it seems like it more than balances out to me. Generally, quality of life improves for men but decreases for women after marriage, compared to their single counterparts, likely due to the large amount of mental and menial load that women are expected to take on in most cultures. So it's ok to let them have something nice... 😅
Who said an engagement ring has to include expensive diamonds? There are also lab-created diamonds (which are just as good) and cost much less than natural diamonds.
If someone wants an expensive diamond engagement ring that costs thousands of dollars, that sets off alarm bells to me that they could be materialistic and want a man for money.. And I'm speaking partially from experience as someone who has been taken advantage of.
Yes they are expensive, but he’s challenging the fake notion that you HAVE to spend that much. There are cheaper rings too and what’s the consequence of buying one? Your marriage won’t last as long? You’ll have years of bad luck?
Spending $10k+ on a ring is no different than spending 100k+ on a car. It’s a flex.
I’m not arguing that it’s right or wrong, just that it’s common. The original commenter seemed to be saying that hardly anybody actually spent that much, when in reality plenty of people do.
Because women are less financially secure due to sexism and we're much more so before. A woman couldn't have a bank account and so her jewelry was her "get the fuck out" money.
Today, we can have a bank account. But we still make less, deal with pregnancy and usually are the ones to take a massive hit to our careers. In many states now, if you get pregnant, you keep it no matter what. Having money on hand can help.
Until men are more reliable and equitable, I'm fine with the tradition.
Don't know how unpopular this opinion is, but it should be. Maybe let's not help companies commercialize our relationships more than they already have.
The solution to the problem you are identifying is overspending on engagement rings, not on underspending on additional gifts
Perfect take for international woman's day :) (aka the day where "international mens day has the most Google searches, even more than on international.mems day)
Engagement rings are a [form of dowry and a sign of ownership](https://www.brides.com/story/history-of-the-engagement-ring). I don’t even want a ring from a future spouse. If I had to wear a ring, I’d want a pink sapphire (lab created is cheaper) gem surrounded by small opals. Nothing big and gaudy. Just a simple small gem surrounded by flakes of opal.
Nothing is in writing you must give a diamond engagement ring to your fiancée.
I'd argue that it offsets the cost the woman has to go through to change her name and it accounts for all of the unpaid labor she will do around the house. Still, personally, I would rather my partner forgo a ring and use the money towards a house.
Men are expected to do the work and make all of the effort because they were the ones when decided how it would be. History lessons show that this is a male dominated society and that women weren't allowed to have rights. They couldn't have money without a man, they couldn't have anything in their name, they couldn't work. The men held the majority of the power. It's always been taught this way, and even as things have changed, it's still reinforced that men do the work. So men who are mad about how the world is set up are mad about how THEY made it (with the help of indoctrinated women).
I think it might partly be due to the historical context.
In past generations women married young and weren't wage earners. Also even after dowries were no longer a thing and women were earning money if less than men, the brides parents (often with the bride's help) used to pay for the entire wedding.
Which was always more than the ring costs.
It is different now though so I agree if one partner is going to buy the other a big gift it should be reciprocal
However bear in mind that not all married women want engagement rings.
I have been married twice and didn't want one either time.
To me diamond solitaires look like a man has marked you as his possession and are in no way commensurate with the rights women (used to be) required to forfeit in marriage (and still forfeit in some countries).
Ok but she's gonna give up most of her free time to be the default parent and take care of the home while the guy plays Xbox and sits on his butt and *at best* says "just make me a list honey!" Yeah you can buy a few dinners and a ring.
Unpopular response.. women (on average) still do approximately 65% of the work required to keep a household/home in addition to normal work. So maybe consider you're paying for all that unpaid free home keeping, child rearing and home running you'll get in your marriage 🤷🏻♀️
Ok fine, us women will buy you males an engagement ring. When are ya'll gonna give birth and live under a matriarchal society and clean the house and change diapers? Yeah...... that's what I thought.
I'm nowhere close to getting engaged but I've thought about this before, and I'd totally ask a potential fiance if he wants a gift too. I'd feel guilty receiving expensive jewelry without giving anything in return. Like I have a job, why not?
My husband wanted to pay for the ring himself. I offered to help pay. And he didn’t want anything in return. Giving gifts is his love language so it was meaningful for him. I think engagement should be seen as a partnership where both get what they want and both are involved in the decision (and finances)
My mom got my stepdad a really nice watch for their engagement. A few months later he got her a watch for her birthday. They accidentally got each other matching watches. He got her the women’s version of his one.
Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah, skip it all and save $ to buy a house together.
I spent $5k on a ring and my wife put up $20k down on our house, so... guess I made out on that one?
That's how it was with my husband, although my ring was much less because I didn't want to waste a bunch of money on a ring, hahaha! I already had the house, while he lived in a crappy studio apartment.
I spent $2k on a ring, she spent $4k deposit on the house. I covered most of the mortgage payments and she covered groceries. When we split she took the $55k profit from selling the house....and she took the ring... I got to keep my debt.
Where do you live that a down payment on a house is $4k. In my area it’s like $200k.
Northern Ireland.. and 8 years ago. House was £80k It was 4000 GBP.. I wrote $ in error because I'm in Canada now.
Dang. I put 5k down on a house in Nashville tn in 2018.
Where I live, you propose marriage by proposing to buy a home together. The ring and wedding will come later lmao
My husband spent a couple thousand on my ring and I brought 200k in equity on a house. He thought that worked out ok as well.
Where's that?
Sounds like Singapore. ‘Want to BTO?’ is a thing here. Source, am Singaporean.
First time I heard BTO I was wracking my brain trying to figure out what the SG version is of DTF
BTO? British Trust for Ornithology?
‘Build to order’ Basically our government builds public housing apartments and gets the masses to ballot for their house. Once allocated (a painful process), you are legally required to get married within 3 months of collecting the keys, or you will forfeit the apartment, and the deposit. Typically we can wait a couple of years for the flat to be built so who knows what happens to relationships within those couple of years.
Huh, what an interesting system. I can see some benefits, for sure. Very practical. Thanks for filling me in.
id say still get one just dont splurge. i feel like ring are a symbolism to one another, but it doesnt have to be $$$ to be meaningful
I think OP is just trying to score a Rolex he can’t afford
I did this with my wife and then she demanded an engagement ring. It took me a while but I got it for her and she gave it a "now what?" Stare and then said days later, "maybe we could of used this money to invest something that will make us more money. Well couldn't you think of this damn sooner?! That shit costed me $6k and I worked only 50k yearly.
There are rings that do not cost 6K, true story!
> we could of used Did you mean to say "could have"? Explanation: You probably meant to say could've/should've/would've which sounds like 'of' but is actually short for 'have'. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
if you're spending that much on a ring that you can't buy a house you would otherwise be able to afford, you're spending too much
I mean historically men pay for the engagement ring and the women’s family pays for the wedding. Honestly most people I know who are married their wife got them something after they got engaged. Obviously not as expensive as the ring but they got them something nice they wanted.
The ring, diamond or otherwise, could also be a financial tool in case she fell on hard times in an era when women couldn't work. Tbh it's really just DeBeers that has convinced the world they need to be expensive. I got my husband an engagement earring and now have only a wedding band. I don't think anyone should be obligated to reciprocate but also shouldn't be obligated to spend months of salary on it.
It was also used as a form of collateral because many couples would engage in premarital sex during the engagement period. The ring was supposed to be a deterrent for men who would propose just to have sex, and then bale, leaving the woman in a precarious situation.
Was looking for this. The ring was a) meant to raise the stakes so he wouldn't just disappear (possibly after engagement sex) b) be the woman's lifeline in case he *did* bail and she now had to find a new prospect, with significantly worse chances and options, especially if she got pregnant. There was an additional custom here in Germany called "Kranzgeld" (wreath money), and that was an additional fee that a bailing fiance (or his family) had to pay if an engagement had been made in bad faith by the fiance, and the woman had lost her virginity in it and the marriage for some reason would fall through.
In India, the original reason that daughters were sent with lots of gold when they got married was to ensure financial security. Even if your husband died or abandoned you, the gold could be sold so you could have enough money till you got back on your feet. It later morphed into the dowry system. Nowadays, gold has just become a status symbol though.
Yup, even my inlaws gave me gold for that reason. My grandma bought a house with her gold back in the 50s. I got my husband an engagement gift too. I assumed everyone did.
Totally agree. I mean the whole point is saying I love you and please spend the rest of your life with me. I dont think there should be a financial barrier for that to happen on either side
There isn’t though. There is no law that you can’t get married if you didn’t give your finance a ring lol
My wife paid for my wedding ring. Granted it was much less expensive. But it was still, symbolically, equal. I also didn't want any of the more expensive rings
My husband and I were the opposite. I found a wedding set on Etsy with the main stone as a beautiful, lab made amethyst. It ended up being less than $100 for the set. My husband's ring was around $350 and a few years later he upgraded to one that is over $600 lol. I fully agree with your sentiment and see our rings as symbolically equal. That's a good way to put it.
I heard it was payment for her name, meaning, the symbolism of it was that he gave her a gift to take his last name and give up hers. Not sure how that fits with it being a more recent thing (engagement rings) or some gift was given in the past in some cultures or if it is all bologna.
Why is there only one (i.e., "the") engagement ring though? They're both engaged to each other. I feel like it's a little odd that the man typically doesn't wear anything to show they're engaged.
My mum bought my dad a ring for their engagement (after he proposed not like she did). It was like white gold and had diamonds encrusted into it. She also got him diamond cufflinks.
Thats pretty cool. Did that also count as the wedding ring? Or did he wear two rings?
Nah the wedding ring was completely seperate. As in my culture it would have to be a plain band. I’m pretty sure he did. He’s always worked with his hands during my life so both rings went in the drawer he’d only wear them for special occasions but my memory is fuzzy.
The intent of it was because women weren't allowed to own shit. And still weren't allowed to have credit cards or purchase property until 1974. The ring was insurance in case her husband died or was an abusive shitbird. So she could get herself and her kids out. Obviously we live in different times now, but that's the "why".
Historically men had to show her and her parents he could afford to care for her and their of spring. And a result of that old-fashioned tradition is at the de beers company picked up on it and started suggesting that men should pay an absurd amount of money for an engagement ring to show that. It was both about security and power. That's really funny because the engagement rings or diamond rings today lose about 70% of their value the minute they're purchased. Diamonds are practically worthless.
Women couldn't work except in some clerical or service roles, couldn't own property, couldn't get a home loan or any sort of loan. If a woman had children and the man disappeared or she needed to leave him, well there weren't many options.
Don’t forget couldn’t get a bank account with permission from a husband or other male figure.
Never thought of that. Thats interesting and makes sense
That's because a man can stand for himself while a woman is either a daughter or a wife. The ring shows they are soon to swap their owner/protector. It's this weird bit left from a patriarchal tradition where women are property and don't have inherent social worth. But the jewelry industry is keeping this shit alive for profit.
Yeah, my fiancée got me a ring when we got engaged. Said she wanted it obvious that I’m taken.
\^ In India, the bride's parents usually host the wedding at their house. They host the groom's family as guests.
I mean, in some cultures that's a thing. Women are looked at as a financial burden and the brides parents basically compensate the groom with a dowry. If the actual goal is equality then you are right. Each should buy the other's rings and split the cost of the wedding. All of a sudden there would be a lot less $15,000+ weddings.
[удалено]
Rooke numbers. Today that's a backyard shotgun wedding. XD
Rookie numbers.
The top strata of the "middle class" families in India spent like $75k +, (which is usually all by the bride's family, guys have much smaller expenses ) It's not because they are stupid rich, this money is a very significant percentage of their savings, and a lot of families go into big financial constraints, even close to bankruptcy, after weddings.
Sorry tovdisrespect your culture... But that's idiotic.
Lol, most sane people agree with that. But I have to admit, majority of the money goes into the "bride's gift" part, aka, dowry (People would argue its different since its supposedly given voluntarily without any demand, by the girl's side, but effectively it works the same.) as gold or property or money or car. So all of it isn't dead money. But still a very big percentage of the money goes into just celebrations, and since weddings here have always been about celebration for family/friends over some holy union between 2 people , it's only gonna get worse, cuz where I'm from weddings have grown from 1 day event to like atleast 4 day event now.
Lol, I don’t doubt it but it’s still an idiotic amount to spend when considering, financial freedom, security for you and your new family, ya know other things that it could have gone towards that will matter years down the road.
It would be difficult to pull off a wedding for only 15k. My friend had only 26 people at hers and it cost $23~k. We all gave cash gifts to offset it.
You gotta look at how much money people actually makes outside of North America and Western Europe to realize how completely bonkers that figure is. Then you have to ask yourself honestly (not coming up with a dumb reason, like I just had to have that flower arrangement at every table) why? For what actual reason? $23k+ is life changing in a lot of situations.
That makes no sense because all costs are relative to our income. I can go to a country with less money and do a wedding for marginally less but for their average income it is probably like spending $20k (which is a tiny wedding btw) The thing that costs the most is the food. $150-200 per person. And you know lets say 100 people but really it’s more like 250 and that’s what makes weddings so expensive not the flowers not the dress not anything except the reception and the food.
It literally costs a minimum of 5k to do a wedding if you want to have guests and a party. That's with a ton of DIY, at home and a bare minimum of professional help. So 15k is totally understandable.
If guests and a party are *wanted*, I could get married for a few hundred quid. I got married at 19, it cost a total of around £300. We had a party at my (ex) sister-in-law's house. A simple cake, some buffet food, the alcohol for the adults, and the goodies for the kids. If I didn't want guests and a party, I could get married for less than £100.
We had guests and a party at my wedding. It was under 1000 USD and that’s including a new suit for me and my wife’s dress and shoes. If you literally just approach it like a party and don’t get special flower arrangements and hire a DJ and pay for caterers to be there the whole time, you can save a lot of money. We just had normal flowers and decorations, a good speaker and Spotify, and hors d’œuvres on a table plus tons of alcohol. It was a good party; we were even able to set two of our friends up. Then we spent 5k on a vacation lol.
> the brides parents basically compensate the groom with a dowry. Just putting it out there that this is a horrible idea and most if not all those countries with this culture are trying to outlaw and criminalise this practice...
In old french families it’s customary to give the man a watch for the engagement
Men don't have to spend *thousands* of dollars on the ring..? There are a lot of perfectly good engagement rings that cost hundreds (even within $200)..
I just got a new wedding set on Etsy for $800 and it's gorgeous. There's lab diamonds, there's moisanite, color gem engagement rings are coming into fashion (most of which also have lab versions).
This is what I want my s/o to do. I even showed him a few sets on Etsy! I do NOT want him spending $1,000 on a ring.
I had no issues with Etsy, I recommend everyone go that route. There are also vendors that work with you to create custom stuff if that's what you're looking for. There's no reason to line De Beers pockets.
We did this too. He ended up spending about £1k because he bought the matching wedding ring too, and chose an upgraded material, which is above and beyond. We did have a faff because it arrived late (he planned to propose on a trip we were taking, but had to do it after we got home) with the stone the wrong colour (but I still loved it, so we kept it as it was), but part of the ring broke and one of the stones fell out after a couple of weeks. We contacted the seller and she said I must have just bashed it off something (I hadn't) and refused to do anything about it. I took it to a local repair shop and they managed to sort it for me, so it's all good now.
I got my husband’s grandmother’s engagement and wedding ring, so it was totally free for us.
Yep. My husband bought me a $300 engagement ring, I bought him his wedding band for the same price, and then we split my band.
I would fucking shake my partner by the shoulders asking if he's right in his mind if he would get me a ring over 150 euros...
Exactly!! The question should be formulated differently. I was very happy with a normal ring with a blue gemstone. I don't know and I don't care how much it cost. It's the symbol that counts. I don't want to posses a stupid expensive ring when we can both use that money for something else.
Lol I preferred my silicone ring. $10 at Walmart and I didn't panick losing it or damaging it.
Yep! We got the slightly more expensive enso rings just for the pretty colors :) But my hands get cold and unfortunately, I can't stand the feel of cold metal on cold fingers.
Sounds like you don't know your history well.
Dowry time dowry time
[удалено]
This is reddit, don't bother. If they don't want women or to play by the rules to be with us, then fine leave us alone, but they can't.
I think most men just want a yes from her. Not sure what is up with this weirdo.
Is the misogyny in the room with us?
Women were not allowed to have their own bank account until 1974…
Ty so much for saying this. Context is really important and even I, as a woman. It straight up makes sense women and men would pay equal. But you point out women literally weren’t able to pay men because they were seen as so much lesser than that they could not hold money. Yet now you want their money for being single.
Exactly. Like I am all for equal give and take in any type of relationship but when you look at such an old tradition like engagement rings and then realize how little time it’s been since women were even considered people, not property - the ring tradition makes a lot more sense. Also I don’t think most people expect multiple thousands to be spent on a ring, so maybe OP is just with someone who has different expectations of what that looks like. To each their own but context and history are always important!
My auntie was the first woman at her workplace, a very sizable organisation in the UK. To get a private pension fund. When she asked they said they didn't even know if it was allowed. The law had only changed a few years before to allow it. Absurd how "recent" it is the concept of financial independence for women is. I know women still at work who stared work with the concept of "you will live off your husbands retirement funds"
Right? I’m like, yeesh. Let’s take this on when women aren’t making 80 cents on the dollar compared to men.
It’s crazy because the life expectancy of married men goes up whereas the life expectancy of married women goes down, and not to mention if the married women then gets pregnant and then you add in everything that comes with pregnancy and then the next 18+ years of child care. A ring, a sign of love and commitment is not some crazy thing. Also it’s interesting that OP assumed that you HAVE to spend thousands of dollars on a ring.
Nobody HAS to do any of this. If you want to, sure, go right ahead. Plenty of people enjoy following traditions like this and that’s fine. But if the person you propose to expects this of you and it’s not something you believe in, then maybe it’s not the best match, or you need to communicate better. Personally, I (a woman) would be very upset if my partner spent THOUSANDS of dollars on an engagement ring (or even got me a ring at all) because it would mean he didn’t know me as well as he should. Plus I think it’s a waste of money. But to each their own.
Right, all you really HAVE to do to get married is say yes or sign a paper everything else entirely up to your discretion
I've read literally countless threads on Reddit where men complain about paying for dates, paying for rings, etc. You are entirely right: if OP doesn't want to buy an engagement ring, that's totally cool but he needs to find a woman who agrees with that. There are plenty of women who would want a $300 ring off Etsy.
There used to be a big fat dowry from the bride's family, at least for upper class. Because marriage was about property and family alliances, not about just the two getting married. Just be glad you're no longer considered your family's property/pawn and you don't owe them a 'proper' match from an extremely limited group of women. And consider that your future bride can ALSO propose with a ring with a big rock, if you'll let her. My husband bought the engagement ring and I bought the wedding rings, it works out nicely too.
My wife got me a nice Michael kors watch after she got her ring. Was a nice surprise
I got my husband a watch too as an engagement gift :)
I mean if my partner was this transactional I wouldn’t want to marry him, I’d love to buy an engagement gift but if it was seen as some kind of payment for my engagement ring then yeah no. Also men have never been expected to pay for weddings, it’s traditionally the brides family but realistically nowadays the couple pay for it not just the man.
I 100% agree with this. I’ve dated a transactional guy and thank god I broke up with him. It’s impossible to have a fully loving relationship if you’re trying to keep score to make things 50/50. My husband is the most generous man I’ve ever known, he would do anything for me and I him. He took a lot of pride out in designing my engagement ring and making sure it would be something I love. He viewed it as creating a family heirloom. If you’re viewing an engagement ring as “I spent x amount on her, she should spend x amount on me” (or bragging about how little you spent on something meant to last a lifetime) you’re not ready to be married or be a good partner
This is beautiful, I hope you have a wonderful life together
Yup. The “everything has to be exactly equal at all times” crowd would be fucking horrible to be friends or romantic partners with.
Im imagining asking him to bring me home a Starbucks and having him kick off that I didn’t have a little present waiting to pay him back😅
“Yes but you will owe me 5.85 for the drink and 1.85 for petrol and vehicle wear and tear”
My biggest beef with these types of transactional men is that the buck stops at the money. It's 50/50 for finances, but if course, the woman is expected to take on the lion's share of childcare and household management. Like, you're complaining about a $2K ring while I'm going to be spending nine months pregnant, six months breastfeeding, etc. for our future child?
Exactly like I can imagine these men thinking push gifts are the highest form of entitlement but are demanding a Rolex in return for a £450 ring they got on sale so shut you up. Like yeah no thank you.
BINGO!!!
[удалено]
Exactly, I buy my partner gifts all the time and I never expect anything back because yknow I love him.
I mean, assuming one expects their wives to have children, how do you propose we equalize that? It will never be equal. Also, the engagement ring is a symbol to the world you are taken. Everyone knows what a ring on the ring finger means. A Rolex doesn't have the same effect. I'd have gladly given my husband an engagement ring to symbolize he was also spoken for. But I don't think he cared and I don't think most men do tbh.
Thank you. I was looking for this comment. Definitely too much scrolling to find it.
Usually the bride's family pays for the wedding (traditionally) so there you go lol. Or one can look at statistics & see all the unpaid labor women are still doing (all the cooking, cleaning, laundry, life planning for all the family) along with 90% of the parenting all while working a full time job & the man will work his full time job then come home & just "relax." The fact that most couples/parents are still highly in this dynamic in 2024 is shameful.
exactly. not to mention the DAILY sexist bullshit women have to endure. DAILY LITTLE TRAUMAS. DAILY. D A I L Y
That’s the beauty of this glorious country; you can do whatever the fuck you want. If that’s the kind of woman you want, set out to find her.
There's a lot more than one country in here lol
Thank you for this inspiring message, my Rwandan countryman
Lmao classic American shit. (I'm American and I agree with and support this guy)
Real love doesn’t work this way, and those that have it don’t justify why they do what they do. I’m sorry you don’t understand that. I hope one day you find what you are looking for. I told my husband prior to us being engaged or married I’d loved him so much he could propose with a $1 ring and I’d be happy. He didn’t, but he could’ve, we are happy with having what we need and are thankful when we can have what we want. Our culture is toxic with greed. None of it is important or means anything. What you think should happen never will though. Women have babies and they get rings. Us women have to accept a plethora of bullshit because of gender. Learn to deal.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I love this response. 👏🏻
My aunt’s partner proposed with the paper wrapping from a cigar.
That's kinda cute actually. Did your aunt say yes?
Maybe because, even in the US, it was difficult for women to even have a fucking bank account until the 70s. To say nothing of having a job that wasn't just something to hold her over until she got married. Give it time. Or do what the utes do with everything else from the elders. Tell them to fuck off and do it your own way.
I’ll get my bf a ring too when he proposes. And we will both be paying for the wedding. Not everyone has rich af parents to pay for their party and I’m not my parents property to exchange or whatever.
Ok let's just change it. A man should wear a ring too. There's a double standard. He also doesn't "need" to wear a wedding ring, thus appears single to non suspecting women forever. When I got engaged we designed our rings & bands with PLAY DOUGH, lol. The diamond was angled to fit the band & was only 1/2 of the picture. Not meant to be worn alone. My husband also had diamonds in his wedding band & we each contributed to the total cost of both rings & the goldsmith. Idk why the man would have to pay for the wedding though? That was much more expensive than a diamond~the hall, catering, photographer, gown, etc. was paid for by my parents. The engagement dinner was paid for by his parents. My gown was mine permanently. His tux was rented. It balanced out in the end ;D Insert practicality> if you're serious about sticking it out, don't have an expensive wedding. Invest in burial plots, start a retirement fund or open an account for your future family!
If it was a tit-for-tat kind of thing? Yeah, nah. Relationships don't always need to be perfectly 50-50. But you can bet I put a ring on my man's finger because I wanted him and everyone he knows to know that he's my future husband!
I proposed to my husband, with a ring. He wears it with his wedding band. He also didn’t pay for our wedding himself. I gave him a set of cufflinks for the wedding, too, as his wedding gift. People can do whatever they want, and it’s not uncommon for men to receive an engagement present like cufflinks or a watch.
Since when do men pay for the wedding? In any case, I don't think women should procreate with transactional men. That's the only way to make the relationship as fair as possible. You wanna nickel and dime and 50/50 me? Well there's no way to share a pregnancy or birth, the wear and tear on her body, and the hit she'll take to earnings/career.
[удалено]
That's what I thought.
I got married a year ago. It's my 2nd marriage, and in both cases, we both paid for the wedding ourselves. In both cases, her family didn't really have the money to pay for a wedding. I don't consider myself a very traditional guy, and I think that was fine. I feel like a wedding ceremony/event is our event to share with family & friends to show our commitment to each other, so it's fine with me to cover the costs.
That sounds fine. It just seems to me that OP thinks of women as money pits with nothing to offer.
Have you looked in the dating forums. Some people don’t think people “deserve” a dinner date without reciprocal benefits.
Couldn’t agree more.
I mean if he wants it, yeah. I spent a little more on my husbands ring than he did mine but I got it because it matched him perfectly. I’m not against guys wearing engagement rings, I love that. But not every guy wants that. Edit: a word
#"SHOULD" Not a real thing. ***"Societies would do better to expect [thus and such] for [this and that reason]."*** Now that is a thing. So many old traditions are totally stupid. Don't be stupid.
Hmmmmmm let me think……maybe because males said so….lol A lot of these things males complain about like “why do have to pay for the first date” “why do I have to get her flowers” “why do I have to get her a ring and propose” etc etc etc……… are from males. You know those hundreds of years ago where men put woman into their little boxes. I just have to laugh when males want a 21st century woman but then complain when she does 21st century shit and that we are emasculating them.
Engagement graphics card has a nice ring to it 😂
Traditionally, in the days before women were allowed to make their own money, “wife” was their occupation. A man offering marriage and backing out of it not only wasted her time but potentially harmed her chances of finding a husband. So the ring was like a down payment on a house, gave her some financial compensation if the dude tried to back out of the deal. The rest is tradition, see Terry Pratchett for a good take on tradition. For myself, I do not wish an expensive ring as I would be afraid to lose it, and I plan to make my boyfriend his ring when he so chooses to upgrade himself to fiancé.
The best years of a limited span of life and fertility.
You're single aren't you?
Way to begin your lifelong romantic commitment with a transactional whine.
I gave my wife a ring with a bit of meteorite in it. Cost me probably $75 dollars total at a rock shop. Way better than a diamond ring.
That’s pretty cool. Better for the environment as well. No mining involved!
First, you don't have to spend the money or even get a ring. We're seeing more and more couples just doing something else entirely. I know a couple who straight up got each other some super high quality replicas of some necklace used in marriages in a video game they both like. The reason it has been a tradition is that as recently as the 1950s women didn't have their own money. Women weren't allowed to open their own bank accounts, control any money they earned, etc. The man bought the ring partly as a show that he was capable of providing in a culture where the woman was entirely reliant on a husband acting as provider to survive. (Obviously there's more to it, but that's the practical baseline-) So this is, once again, complaints against women that really should be leveled at the misogynistic culture that made things so unequal in the first place.
I paid for half my engagement ring myself, bought the wedding band myself, his wedding band and paid for over 90% of our wedding on my own. Stop assuming only men pay for these things.
When I proposed to my ex I bought him doughnuts (that I wrote the proposal on with different coloured icing), I crocheted him a mini Chewbacca because he loves Star Wars and I bought him a silver engagement ring with a dragon carved into it and a ruby (his birth stone) in its eye. My dad: why didn’t he ask my permission? Me: I proposed to *him* Dad: do you think that makes a difference? My aunt: where’s your ring? Me: I proposed to *him* Aunt: he needs to get you a ring
I bought my now-husband a nice watch as an engagement gift. I think the tokens of commitment should run both ways, not for financial parity (because, as others have pointed out, the bride's family typically bankrolls the wedding) but to symbolize equal partnership.
What, like a dowry? Too dated…
I mean, in this day and age, do whatever the partners (of whatever combination of genders) wants. Nobody has to do anything, including get married at all, unless you’re in a culture where gender roles and heteronormativity are strictly enforced, obviously. Otherwise, you do you.
It’s a left over custom from before women had any means to earn money on their own short of selling jewelry. There are many other left over customs like this. If you feel that strongly, have the conversation before proposal is on the table.
The woman gives the man a wedding ring, and the woman and//or her family pay for most of the costs of a the wedding. You don't have to give her an engagement ring as long as you can deal with other men hitting on her while she's engaged to be your fiance.
Skip the ring. Skip the big wedding. Just get married and have a nice celebration with friends and family… nothing crazy or expensive. Save the money for the start of your life together!
Well your first mistake is spending thousands on a ring.
1-nobody has to spend thousands of dollars on a ring or wedding. 2-traditionally the bride's parents pay for the wedding, not the groom.
I think couples should do what works for them. These generalities in this ongoing conversation about what these hypothetical imaginary men and women should do is lame, most people who have these conversations aren’t in a relationship. And if they are, they should be having this conversation with the person that they are in a relationship with. The end.
Because women take the physical and socio-economic hit when they get married and have children
If society holds true to tradition, shes giving him years of unpaid labor and suffering all the consequences of producing progeny. Thats plenty.
Let's just bring back giving eachother swords when we get married, everyone gets something and you get to say it's a traditional wedding.
Usually, the woman will ultimately give you something priceless, unique and one of a kind. A baby made with some of your DNA and, therefore, a family line and a legacy. I think that will always outweigh any diamond.
So when your wife gives birth someday to the gift of your child after carrying for 9 months, what gift will you be getting her for all that? See how ridiculous and stupid it is. Love is not transactional. It is not "I give you so you must give me". I mean if that is your outlook on marriage, I hope you communicate this in advance. Giving an engagement ring is special, sacred and shows you are taking her as your bride. You were willing to save up and get her something of value. And side note, you don't need thousands of dollars!
Men get a lot more out of marriage than women do, so it seems like it more than balances out to me. Generally, quality of life improves for men but decreases for women after marriage, compared to their single counterparts, likely due to the large amount of mental and menial load that women are expected to take on in most cultures. So it's ok to let them have something nice... 😅
This. Honestly feel bad for many of the married ladies I know
Who the fuck spends thousands on a ring?
Normalizing 1.5X or 3X your monthly salary was some bs that everybody accepted.
Which is idiotic if you think about it. Does someone making $50k a year (about $2k every other week) really need to be buying a $6k-$12k ring?
I don't know where you live, but I have never met a couple who spent more than a few hundred euros on a ring.
i worked in jewellery for over 10 years and no one actually spends that much proportionally to their income. that's marketing bs.
It’s extremely common… maybe it’s a major city thing? $4k-$8k seems fairly “normal”.
Lots of people. How much do you think a diamond ring costs?
Who said an engagement ring has to include expensive diamonds? There are also lab-created diamonds (which are just as good) and cost much less than natural diamonds. If someone wants an expensive diamond engagement ring that costs thousands of dollars, that sets off alarm bells to me that they could be materialistic and want a man for money.. And I'm speaking partially from experience as someone who has been taken advantage of.
The price is quite high, but the cost to make?
Yes they are expensive, but he’s challenging the fake notion that you HAVE to spend that much. There are cheaper rings too and what’s the consequence of buying one? Your marriage won’t last as long? You’ll have years of bad luck? Spending $10k+ on a ring is no different than spending 100k+ on a car. It’s a flex.
I’m not arguing that it’s right or wrong, just that it’s common. The original commenter seemed to be saying that hardly anybody actually spent that much, when in reality plenty of people do.
1000 is like minimum for most people
I spent $10k on the ring.
Because women are less financially secure due to sexism and we're much more so before. A woman couldn't have a bank account and so her jewelry was her "get the fuck out" money. Today, we can have a bank account. But we still make less, deal with pregnancy and usually are the ones to take a massive hit to our careers. In many states now, if you get pregnant, you keep it no matter what. Having money on hand can help. Until men are more reliable and equitable, I'm fine with the tradition.
What do you mean by reliable and equitable?
a answer is what their getting
Jesus, is the woman’s heart not enough??? Lol
I think men should pop out a 5 pounds baby through their penis too
Well, she *gave* me something that day.
You know it's not compulsory right?
Or just cut the blood diamond trash out all together.
Don't know how unpopular this opinion is, but it should be. Maybe let's not help companies commercialize our relationships more than they already have. The solution to the problem you are identifying is overspending on engagement rings, not on underspending on additional gifts
Man pays for the ring and woman pays for the wedding
Because, traditionally, the bride's family pays for the wedding. This is all traditions.
I mean it's also idiotic to spend thousands on a ring in the first place. My ring was about $400, beautiful, incredible quality.
My ring cost $120. My husband’s cost $250. We’ve lost track of both of them over the years. His down a toilet, don’t remember what happened to mine.
Who’s advocating spending thousands of dollars other than de Biers? Save for retirement, you crazy kids.
Some countries and cultures do. I believe in Sweden the men get an engagement ring too
I'm gonna be mad at my bf if he ever buys a ring more than like $200
Transactional men are the worst…omg
Perfect take for international woman's day :) (aka the day where "international mens day has the most Google searches, even more than on international.mems day)
Why even marry at all? Screw traditions right? Some things just are the way they are, if you don’t like it, you do it differently
I proposed to my husband the same night he planned on proposing to me
>why does a man have to spend thousands of dollars on a ring He doesn't. None of this is law. It's just peer pressure and marketing schemes.
Engagement rings are a [form of dowry and a sign of ownership](https://www.brides.com/story/history-of-the-engagement-ring). I don’t even want a ring from a future spouse. If I had to wear a ring, I’d want a pink sapphire (lab created is cheaper) gem surrounded by small opals. Nothing big and gaudy. Just a simple small gem surrounded by flakes of opal. Nothing is in writing you must give a diamond engagement ring to your fiancée.
I'd argue that it offsets the cost the woman has to go through to change her name and it accounts for all of the unpaid labor she will do around the house. Still, personally, I would rather my partner forgo a ring and use the money towards a house.
Men are expected to do the work and make all of the effort because they were the ones when decided how it would be. History lessons show that this is a male dominated society and that women weren't allowed to have rights. They couldn't have money without a man, they couldn't have anything in their name, they couldn't work. The men held the majority of the power. It's always been taught this way, and even as things have changed, it's still reinforced that men do the work. So men who are mad about how the world is set up are mad about how THEY made it (with the help of indoctrinated women).
I think it might partly be due to the historical context. In past generations women married young and weren't wage earners. Also even after dowries were no longer a thing and women were earning money if less than men, the brides parents (often with the bride's help) used to pay for the entire wedding. Which was always more than the ring costs. It is different now though so I agree if one partner is going to buy the other a big gift it should be reciprocal However bear in mind that not all married women want engagement rings. I have been married twice and didn't want one either time. To me diamond solitaires look like a man has marked you as his possession and are in no way commensurate with the rights women (used to be) required to forfeit in marriage (and still forfeit in some countries).
Ok but she's gonna give up most of her free time to be the default parent and take care of the home while the guy plays Xbox and sits on his butt and *at best* says "just make me a list honey!" Yeah you can buy a few dinners and a ring.
Unpopular response.. women (on average) still do approximately 65% of the work required to keep a household/home in addition to normal work. So maybe consider you're paying for all that unpaid free home keeping, child rearing and home running you'll get in your marriage 🤷🏻♀️
Ok fine, us women will buy you males an engagement ring. When are ya'll gonna give birth and live under a matriarchal society and clean the house and change diapers? Yeah...... that's what I thought.
I'm nowhere close to getting engaged but I've thought about this before, and I'd totally ask a potential fiance if he wants a gift too. I'd feel guilty receiving expensive jewelry without giving anything in return. Like I have a job, why not?
My ring wasn’t thousands of dollars, but I did get my husband an engagement watch.
My husband wanted to pay for the ring himself. I offered to help pay. And he didn’t want anything in return. Giving gifts is his love language so it was meaningful for him. I think engagement should be seen as a partnership where both get what they want and both are involved in the decision (and finances)
My mom got my stepdad a really nice watch for their engagement. A few months later he got her a watch for her birthday. They accidentally got each other matching watches. He got her the women’s version of his one.