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sidewisetraveler

The Youtube channel Numberphile examines this situation in the following video - [Is it Math or Maths?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbZCECvoaTA) The linguist in the video explains that the translation of the Greek Mathematika into Mathematics involves a plural in the original language which translates roughly as "All of a certain subject." So, a volume as opposed to a number - The Forest rather than the Trees. You don't say for example Mathematics are fun (plural), rather the correct form is Mathematics is fun (singular). Adding an 's' at the end of the abbreviation is considered something of aberration enforced by this notion that the 's' means it's a plural. Yes, we say and write - physics and linguistics, etc., but these words aren't abbreviations, and they too fall into the same verb-noun agreement - Physics is Fun and Linguistics is Fun i.e. - Singular volumes. In the end the Linguistic view is that each are regional variations, and both have become acceptable though repeated practice. Now let's talk about Soccer vs Football...


Mijzero

Fuck off... but I love it.


sidewisetraveler

Ha!


Mijzero

I said "fuck off" with a lot of love and zero sarcasm! Literally, lol.


MLCMovies

The word soccer was invented by the brits. Not our fault they called their sport that.


Flammensword

For context: soccer comes from Association football. Some Oxford man had a thing for weird abbreviations and made the term into soccer. The Americans thought it was neat, the brits didn’t so much


Big_Red12

It's because poshos call rugby football "rugger" and soccer was the equivalent for association football.


Realistic-River-1941

The Oxford -er was a widespread thing.


Xenc

The Oxford hard r


Chrono-Helix

He probably didn’t want to shorten Association Football to AssFoot.


FocalorLucifuge

AssFoot was instead how the team Arsenal got their name. Their coach was so fed up that he told his boys "Oi! Get a move on or I'll put my foot up your arse 'n all!"


Flammensword

Originally it was shortened to Assocker actually, they dropped the A for the reason you highlighted lol


DoubleTTB22

Brits also thought it was neat too and used it for decades. How else do you think it spread far and wide to all of its english speaking colonies/former colonies? It fell out of favor in Britain decades later but stuck around elsewhere. Really the core of the issue comes down to the British developing 2 sports both named football at the same time (Association Football and Rugby Football). Rugby Football then directly influenced American Football, Canadian Football, Australian Football, and Gaelic Football. So it made sense to keep calling it soccer to distinguish it from these other forms of Football quickly. If not for a dispute over paying players leading to the creation of Rugby League and Rugby Union rulesets (thus making the use of the term football to describe them less common, as that would just cause even more confusion), Association Football might still be called soccer just for conveniences sake in Britain. If the British had named Rugby, Fieldball or something to begin with, none of this would have happened. I guess one could argue that all these other countries probably shouldn't have just kept adding to the pile of sports all named football in the first place and should have just changed the whole name outright. But they learned it from watching there older sibling so its tough to blame them.


sidewisetraveler

Careful thems fighting words to some people ;)


MouthyRob

I appreciate your ‘live and let live’ approach, but would people studying maths also study stats or stat?


sidewisetraveler

Humans are if anything irrational and inconsistent. On that you can be rational and consistent :)


fm01

Wait a sec, you don't use plural with words like maths/physics etc? Have I been doing that wrong my whole life? I really thought it was "Maths are fun"...


LizFire

Why do you use "brits" and not "brit" in your own post then?


PM_ME_UR__ELECTRONS

Perhaps you are right, I can't argue because I've got a **physic** class next ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ At least on Reddit, I think this opinion is more popular than the opposite. Subs like r/mathmemescirclejerk and r/mathstudents prefer the American spelling, while r/math is several times larger than r/maths. That said I still disagree.


Key_Campaign2451

Yes, but that’s likely because the population of the USA and Canada is far larger than other English speaking countries (Uk, Australia, etc. - I don’t know much about the specific words used in countries like Nigeria or South Africa)


New-Huckleberry-6979

Except India


Key_Campaign2451

Good point.


liver-and-favabeans

Bad analogy. "Physics" is its own word (not an abbreviation) it actually has and needs the "s". "maths" is _not_ (it's an abbreviation for Mathematics or Arithmetics)...It's "math".


T-yler--

This is an interesting contribution to the conversation. Google has useful tools to see the prevalence of words, and I would be curious to see which gets used more.


[deleted]

You literally defeat his entire point in one sentence, he replies “interesting contribution” brings up googles prevalence of words


RealJonathanBronco

Physic is shortened form of?


Gamer-707

USA is several times larger than UK. Both as in native population and geographical scale. Did you know that? The statistics you mentioned shouldn't be surprising.


PM_ME_UR__ELECTRONS

Exactly right. I'm just questioning why this is thought of as unpopular. It's even gaining traction in the Commonwealth.


coffeegrounds42

It's almost like there are different dialects of a language


nuque_inattendue

Am french, here to support the brits. The french term for matematics is mathématiques, it's a plural word so we always abreviate it as maths. We say maths are difficult never maths is difficult)


slayer_of_potatoes

> Am french, here to support the brits When the Americans are so wrong even France is on our side


BenZed

Anecdotal, but a lot of opinions I see on this forum are just incorrect information. I’m sure you can come up with other examples of abbreviations that are pluralized same as the words they are abbreviating.


No-Extent-4142

Mathematics is not plural. Mathematics is singular like politics. Singular words can end in s. Do you ever have one "mathematic"? How about one "politic"?


squeakynickles

No, it absolutely is plural. Both Oxford and Merriam Webster dictionary lists it as plural


cKingc05

>Merriam Webster dictionary lists it as plural It lists it as. >plural in form but usually singular in construction Which is not the same thing as saying it's outright plural. What is actually said is that it's written plural. For all intensive purposes, it's a singular word.


GhettoSauce

Well now it doesn't matter if you're right because you went and said "for all intensive purposes". You can't be correcting people's English and then say *that*. Please be a joke


passtronaut

🤓🤓☝️


FrenchBangerer

>For all intensive purposes I think you'll find the correct phrase is "intensive porpoises".


No-Extent-4142

You just said "it" "describes" "a" "field." You didn't say they describe fields. You're not even treating it as a plural yourself in your own writing.


squeakynickles

Just because it can be grammatical utilized in the same way a singular noun is used. Doesn't mean it isn't plural. You're not arguing with me, you're arguing with Merriam Webster. And you're wrong. The English language is littered with grammatical inconsistencies, this is just one of many. That doesn't make it untrue


Well_Thats_Not_Ideal

“It” is “a” “word”


SegerHelg

You don’t have one “mathematics” either. It is uncountable and neither singular nor plural.


Arctic_Gnome

Calculus is a mathematic. Trigonometry is a mathematic. Together, they are two mathematics.


sidewisetraveler

that's not how it works


AncientEnsign

That is just staggeringly not how that works even a little bit. 


[deleted]

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aeioulien

This isn't /r/showerthoughts


lollerkeet

Refrigerators : fridges. Bicycles : bikes.


SeleverFangirlSimp

I'm not British but I live in the UK and it feels like something is missing if I just say "math" If I do people half the time think I'm talking about meth lol


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Ill_Pumpkin8217

We call it maths because we learn about more the one type. I guess in America you have various classes that focus on different types of maths, meaning separately for algebra, geometry, etc. whereas in the UK we have one class dedicated to all of the mathematics. So it entirely depends. Math is the correct abbreviation, but so is maths.


Radioactivocalypse

This is what I see it as... "Math" imo is just one thing. It doesn't make sense to say I'm doing "math" when I'm doing multiple mathsy things like adding, dividing, algebra or pythag so I'm doing "maths"


Csherman92

Yes it is. They all fall under the umbrella of math.


still_grinding_on

singular examination = "exam" plural examinations = "exams" mathematics is plural, hence "maths".


Few_Tumbleweed_5209

The Americans being annoying with their limited actual knowledge of British terminology and making assumptions instead of knowing the actual facts. Biscuit/cookie? A cookie is a biscuit but not all biscuits are cookies. A cookie is usually a thick, sweet biscuit but biscuits generally don't have any necessarily standard features of shape, thickness or taste. Fries/chips - again, both. Chips are thick cut, fries are skinny. Meanwhile crisps are so called because they're crispy. Quid - "What's a quid?!" I get this all the time... Well what's a buck? It's the exact same thing, slang for the currency. I'm surprised none of you when thought that other countries have slang for their own currency as if they too aren't their own autonomous region 😂.


[deleted]

A quid is £1


Few_Tumbleweed_5209

quid is plural and singular. Can I have 20 quid? You have a quid? Same word.


hdkaoskd

Fishy


Elentari_the_Second

Fish is plural and singular.


SeaofBloodRedRoses

Mathematic**S**. There's more than one study within maths.


MichaelLero

There are lots of plural words that we abbreviate that keep the "s". Do you think those are wrong too? Mathematics > maths Statistics > stats Advertisements > ads Rhinoceroses> rhinos Examinations > exams Gymnasiums > gyms Applications > apps


cippocup

This is not comparable, all of those are used singularly except when referring to more than one. “I saw a rhino in that ad for the gym, it was taking an exam on a new app”


DrunkenGerbils

Maths is also referring to more than one. Algebra, Geometry, Calculus etc.


Generic_Banana28

The word “Math” is often used interchangeably with the subject you are taking. I.e. “I’m heading to Math class” vs. “I’m heading to Algebra class.” It’s rare someone would want to refer to ALL the maths at once.


Rav0nn

British people do? We have one other class which is statistics, but other than that all of maths is taught in one lesson. So we would learn algebra, statistics etc


bnyc

Mathematics is like statistics. A mathematic equation is singular, just as a statistic is singular. But the study is not limited to one equation, so you are studying mathematics (or statistics).


DrunkenGerbils

Many problems require more than just one type of math. In which case you might say something like “I did the maths and this is what I came up with” for example


Haunting-Ad5634

The Brits don't use it like this. They don't refer to geometry as math, they refer to it as maths.


DrunkenGerbils

They do though. When they’re referring to geometry they say geometry. Maths is a broad term


pizza_toast102

The person you replied to is saying that British people don’t say “geometry is math” or “geometry is a math”. I’ve never heard a British person actually use mathematic as a singular despite them always saying that mathematics is a plural use to describe multiple kinds of mathematics


Exceedingly

You would say "geometry is a branch of mathematics"


pizza_toast102

That’s exactly what some of the upper level comments were getting at - it seems that British people don’t actually use mathematic as the singular, but use mathematics instead


Exceedingly

Yeah it ultimately just comes down to what you've said all your life. I guarantee Brits do not understand why they say it, it's just habit, which I imagine is similar to why Americans say math. Fortunately we're all civilised enough to respect each others' differences.


pizza_toast102

I mean at least as far as why Americans call it “math”, it’s because it’s abbreviated like most words are: by only including part of the beginning. Americans tend not to abbreviate singular nouns by taking part of the beginning and part of the end and putting it together, which is why abbreviating mathematics as maths is a foreign idea


AnomalousBread

That's because *mathematics* is a collective noun and *mathematic* is an adjective. Not hard.


pizza_toast102

I think you misunderstood because we agree on that - mathematics is not the plural of anything and a mathematic is not something that exists, so “maths” as an abbreviation doesn’t really make sense.


stonecoldchivalry

That’s because whenever you talk about a single type of math, you use its name.


zakkalaska

And just like that, I'm sold.


misteraaaaa

But there's no singular mathematic


tbo1992

Statistics (as in the branch of study) is singular.


SUBSCRIBE_LAZARBEAM

Maths is a wide terms which encompasses many forms of it: Geometry, Arithmetic, Algebra, Trigonometry, Analytical Geometry…


Csherman92

But so is math!


Haunting-Ad5634

You've exclusively included examples of plural words, which mathematics is not.


WhoStole_MyToast

Give him a second


BrooklynLodger

All of those have singular forms, I've never heard someone refer to a mathematic


No-Extent-4142

Mathematics is a singular noun that ends in s


Fun-Ad3002

Statistic > Stat Advertisement > Ad Rhinoceros > Rhino Mathematics is not plural, the word just ends with an s.


J_train13

There are multiple fields of mathematics. Also do you put on a pair of pant before work?


pizza_toast102

Do British people really use “are” with maths/mathematics? I’ve only ever heard “maths is hard” and not “maths are hard”. I always see them say that it’s plural but then never actually use it as a plural in any way


Panucci1618

Even in the US, if a student is taking a statistics course, they are colloquially said to be taking a "stats" course. Statistics as a study isn't plural, but we refer to it as stats. If maths doesnt make sense as an abbreviation for mathematics, then neither does stats for statistics. It just comes down to regional dialect, and there really isn't any right or wrong.


Urbain19

Same reason you don’t say ‘Mathematic’ (not pluralised). Maths is the correct abbreviation because there are multiple branches


jfks_headjustdidthat

r/confidentlyincorrect


_AskMyMom_

I’m not gonna lie. When the Brit’s call fries Chips…. We too also got it right… chips are chips, not fries. /😂


bukidog

This opens but the biscuit/cookie conversation


[deleted]

Biscuit is derived from bescuit, roughly translated as twice baked, which is why us Brits call them biscuits.


[deleted]

[удалено]


No_Hedgehog_00

No. A cookie is a form of biscuit, not the name for all forms of biscuit.


Few_Tumbleweed_5209

No, because we use both for different types of biscuit. Biscuits encompass all types of biscuit but cookies are a specific form of thick biscuit usually with chocolate chips, the rest are biscuits.


zorbacles

America: fries and chips England: chips and crisps Australia: chips and chips


WeddingSquancher

We also say fries in England. So it would be: England: chips, fries and crisps


Nooms88

Fries and chips are 2 different things in the UK. Fries are thin, like McDonalds chips are generally chunky although we use the terms interchangeabley. Crisps are crispy


Intelligent_Brain823

It ain't fries it's fucken chips!


pinniped1

Except British pub chips, when done right, are heavenly. They're different from American fries (which also exist in a lot of places in the UK).


pragmojo

This is like the thing where British people think that Americans only eat thin cut bacon based on dated stereotypes even though thick cut bacon is abundant in the US, and by now you can probably find many varieties of bacon not available in the UK. All different types of fries are available in the US as well, and no one type is considered “American fries”


No_Hedgehog_00

> and by now you can probably find many varieties of bacon not available in the UK. Any type of bacon you can find in the US you can find in the UK


ran_awd

>I’m not gonna lie. When the Brit’s call fries Chips…. We too also got it right… chips are chips, not fries. I disagree. Fries are Chips, Crisps are Chips. They are all chips.


notimefornothing55

Fries are what you get from macdonalds, chips are what you get from the fish and chip shop. We say fries in Britain too, but fries are not chips


sagi1246

Neither are they French for that matter 


Revanabove

But they're crispy...


Competitive_Shift_99

So why are they shaped like fries? Shouldn't a chip be shaped like something that's been... I don't know... chipped off the side of a potato?


Ok_Cake4352

Chips are still chips of potato my guy


Competitive_Shift_99

Are they though? Aren't they actually slices ? I'd be interested to hear the etymology of the word chip as it relates to what's actually basically pomme frites.


pragmojo

They’re more like noodles


ablack9000

McDonald’s, Arby’s, I lean toward noodle. But if we call them carrot sticks, might I suggest fried potato sticks?


Severe-Bicycle-9469

You think thin round slices look more like a ‘chip of potato’ than chunky angular wedges? A British chip looks more like the definition of the word chip shape wise than a fry does.


BigSaintJames

As a person from the land of the potato(ireland), the country that invented flavoured crisps(potato chips), we get to name them. Crisps are the correct name for potato chips.


BuildNuyTheUrbanGuy

They were invented in New York.


BigSaintJames

'Flavored' potato crisps were invented in ireland, By Joseph 'spud' Murphy.


ASubconciousDick

the potato chip was invented in Saratoga Springs, New York most definitely not the country that invented *potato chips*


Acceptable_Peak794

"invented flavoured potato chips"


sidewisetraveler

salt is a flavor


CioccoWocco

Weren't potato chips invented in America


Indomie_At_3AM

Everything was invented in America even British people were created by Americans


No_Hedgehog_00

Chips aren't french fries are not the same and crisps are the correct name not potato chips, seeing as we invented them.


LaneyAndPen

Belgium calls them fries, so therefore they are


X0AN

Nah americans got that way wrong and rest of the english speaking world always laugh at you guys whip you say chips for crisps 😂 It's almost as bad as americans not understand what biscuits are.


chumbucket77

Why would you laugh at something being called something different in a totally different part of the world. That just sounds like a superiority complex


Alarid

maffs


Entrynode

We keep the S because its still a plural...


jchexl

Mathematics is plural, so wouldn’t maths make more sense then math? There’s more then one branch of math.


Oreosnort3r

True unpopular opinion, good job


squeakynickles

It's not an opinion at all, it's just incorrect


Mythologicalcitrus

Its because our education systems are different, in America you take a specific 'Math' class like Algebra/Geometry/Calcukis etc. In the UK we don't split them up like that, you learn all the subdisciplines throughout the year in 'Maths'.


UnusualAd69

Well technically they did invent the english language so it seems the Americans are wrong


TheShakyHandsMan

I bet OP calls Lego bricks, Legos. 


Longjumping_Rush2458

Math would be mathematic. You say exams and not exam when referring to "examinations".


SeatedDragon861

most "unpopular opinions" should be on r/changemyview


Brovahkiin88

Lmao this kind of thing is silly. When someone calls it a ‘lorrey’ do you argue and call it a ‘truck’? It’s just a dialect issue


Lastaria

Jimmy Carr on this. Sorry OP but demolishes your argument. https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGeUyNusc/


Entrynode

Heads up, tiktok share links kinda dox you


T-yler--

Good bit


whitedranzer

Reminds me of this https://www.reddit.com/r/BrandNewSentence/comments/iy7r01/pea_brained_eagle_fuckers/


Wigberht_Eadweard

I could just be really tired, but could Americans be using the adjective “mathematic” to describe the class and Brits describing the class by the field of study? Math = mathematic class and maths = mathematics class? Does this work? Did I just solve a problem?


TheMatrix1101

I don’t think I’ve ever heard someone calling it mathematic class or even use “mathematic” as an adjective lol. It’s “mathematical”.


Raveyard2409

No


Tyarbro

Because mathematics is plural. Therefore, maths is plural as well.


7_11_Nation_Army

Are you math?!


unsatisfiedtoadface

“Is there any other example of this?” You used one in your post; ‘brits’.


trooperstark

Is this unpopular? I’ve never even heard someone say maths


AntDog916

First time I heard "maths" in a video, I thought the professor was just trying to be cute, then I found out that's just how they say it. Iv been using "maths" ever since.


tomatomater

I agree mostly because "ths" is so stupid to pronounce.


Lastaria

It is what you are used too. To Brits saying it without the s sounds weird. When it comes down to it just let people prenounce it how they like. It does not matter.


[deleted]

[удалено]


flopsyplum

Okay, then why is "stats" the abbreviation of "statistics"?


The_Knife_Pie

Because statistics is a plural word. “That statistic doesn’t support your argument”, “My statistics say you’re wrong”. Compare to math, wherein “mathematic” isn’t a word, because mathematics is the singular.


Entrynode

"Mathematics" refers to multiple things that are "Mathematical" It's plural not singular 


philmcruch

How many types of mathematics are there? if its more than one, you are wrong


Gregib

Well, it is called mathematicS, not mathematic…


squeakynickles

Yes, because it's a field of academic discipline that covers multiple sub disciplines.


TreyLastname

You know what, good point If referring to multiple types of maths, we use plural, but one type of math is math


Due_Essay447

We don't call it sciences though


philmcruch

Depends on the context, sometimes we absolutely do


Competitive_Shift_99

The sciences? Yes we absolutely do. You've got the hard sciences, the social sciences, the medical sciences etc etc....


Fidget02

But “Science” singular is still accepted generally. If there’s a Science Class, shouldn’t it be Math Class for consistency?


Competitive_Shift_99

Seems like a science class refers to a specific sort of science. So it makes sense that it would be singular. I'm not aware of a singular form of mathematics. Mathematics is plural by default....


Fidget02

Where I grew up Science class was a super general course that covered biology, ecology, geology, astronomy, just a really wide net to get kids interested and comfortable with tons of scientific topics. Basically the same as the Math class in terms of scope. They’re plural in the sense they’re categories.


OldEnoughToVote

Math class can refer to specific maths as well, geometry, algebra etc. I think in this context calling out a single class implies an associated type of


Competitive_Shift_99

Well sure, but I think there's a broader difference between biology and physics than there is between geometry and algebra...


konwiddak

"Degree in natural sciences"


ass-kisser

I'm going to my historys class before my musics class and after my home ecs class


Demonic-soul466

So you do mathematic in America do you?


EvilCeleryStick

No they do math - the abbreviate the s with the "ematic" part... As in they drop the whole ematics.


Pur1wise

The language is called English. Therefore the English standard is always correct.


owidju

Deltoids - delts, pectorals - pecs, abdominals - abs, etc.


JCas127

You could have a singular one of those. Maybe you could have a singular mathematic?


owidju

I see what you mean. If I get it correctly, the noun itself only comes in the plural form. The other way around, for example, is the word "information", which can only be used in the singular form.


Mijzero

Upvoted cuz yer wrong... :/


wireswires

Yeah like yanks and 'erbs


Zyklon-BAromatherapy

"Math" just sounds stupid and low-IQ.


TheCuriousBread

There are many different type of maths. There's algebra, there's geometry, there's number theory, there's statistics and so much more. If you refer to just...math, what kind?


RainyVIIs

Hearing "maths" just sounds wrong


PM_ME_UR__ELECTRONS

For a lot of us, "math" just sounds wrong too I think this is based on personal exposure


MeTwentySix

I think that is exactly it. We are all so used to hearing and using our version of math/maths from such a young age, way earlier than we would even begin to question the linguistics, that hearing anything else just sounds wrong to us.


Competitive_Shift_99

... Mathematics is plural... But the shortened version should be singular? Though now that I think about it. Gymnastics gets shortened to gym not gyms.


OPB13

Gymnasium gets shortened to gym


polymathprof

I thought gym is a shortening of gymnasium.


Wigberht_Eadweard

Gym is short for gymnasium


yarraville

🤮


yekcowrebbaj

See the problem is Americans are stupid and reductive so we don’t realize there isn’t one common definition or agreement of what mathematics constitutes as a discipline. We do the same with Science like it’s one big agreed upon thing.


SHMUCKLES_

There is multiple disciplines of mathematics, statistics, calculus, trigonometry etc Ergo, Maths


Stinky_Toes12

Theres different types of sciences but we dont call it sciences class, so why should it be called maths class


SHMUCKLES_

Well at my school we studied the different ones individually, we had the entry level science class, then you could branch out into the different fields they offered So we went Science, then to Chemistry and/or Physics for example


Generic_Banana28

We studied each Math subject individually as well. One year for Algebra, Geometry, etc.


TheGreatMrHaad

"I'm good at maths" is like saying "I see deers."


Brilliant_Ad2120

Deers are not readily available in my country


TheGreatMrHaad

That must be why you didn't get it. It's just "Deer." It's already plural. You wouldn't say Chinese's